Part I: Stanek WND column, “3rd annual Abortionist of the Year award”
I’m so excited! The National Day of Appreciation for Abortion Providers is just three days away – Saturday, March 10!
We will not likely get to celebrate this unholiest of unholy days with the actual dirty deed doers themselves, since I anticipate their inspirational work ethic will compel them to labor (pardon the pun) on coincidentally the most profitable day of their week.
But we can certainly show our support through the sincerest form of flattery, imitation, except… hmm… there’s not much to imitate that won’t get us thrown in prison. Well, at least we can wear red!
And, of course, we can all laud together the Third Annual Abortionist of the Year!
Before I name that person, I must confess it was difficult to dredge up nominees for this year’s prize, because we lost an alarming number of shop choppers to arrest or license revocation during the past 12 months.
Oh dear, and we were already scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Take abortionist Reffat Kamel Abofreka of Virginia, for instance, who would have made a spectacular nominee had he not….
Continue reading my WorldNetDaily.com column today, “3rd annual Abortionist of the Year award.”
**Due to the extended number of comments to this post, I am closing this thread and launching a new post. Please go here to comment on this topic. Thanks.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Wasn’t there also an abortionist in Kansas who kept aborted babies in the refrigerator and ate them?
Jill, thanks for the great satire on the awful crime of abortion with the honoree, Dr. Tiller, nominated as the worst American of us all.
Disgusted, yes, Krishna Rajanna, coincidentally last year’s Abortionist of the Year! (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49205
Excellent piece, Jill. Will the devil himself be handing out the awards? Or will he wait until the next life to reward these minions – with eternal damnation, that is.
I followed the link for the Abortion Appreciation Day and responded to their invitation to explain why I am pro-choice. This is what I wrote:
Why I Am Pro-Choice
I am pro-choice because I believe that everyone should freely choose how to live their life. I believe that the ideal form of government is enlightened anarchy such as Ursula K. LeGuin described in her novel The Dispossessed. Each citizen, motivated by a desire for what is beautiful, true, and good, makes choices not because they are forced to by law but because they know the choice is good and will benefit the community — even when they choose those things that directly benefit only them, the community benefits because they become a happier, more fulfilled person.
Sadly, we live in a world where citizens are motivated often by fear, acquisitiveness, anxiety, ignorance, woundedness, and other factors that influence their choices away from the beautiful, the true and the good. Even LeGuin had to allow for that in her book, which is why it The Dispossessed is the only utopian novel I have ever read that I ever wanted to read again.
In our world, we have a government that is not an anarchy — although there are times it may seem like one, for better or for worse! — but is enlightened self-rule, with laws created through a complex process of negotiations, compromises, checks and balances. Some of our laws are coercive, but these laws were deemed necessarily so. Our laws against theft and against murder are two examples of coercive laws.
The existence of coercive laws does not impact on my ability to be pro-choice and to live my life as I wish. If I bump up against a coercive law, I still have the choice to do as I wish.
A people governed by self-rule accept coercive laws for the sake of the common good and the protection of all.
Abortion kills a living human being. A coercive law is needed to protect unborn human life, for the sake of the common good and the protection of all. We once had such laws, but an overzealous judiciary overturned them.
It is not at this time possible to obtain new embryonic stem cells without killing a living human embryo. A coercive law is needed to protect embryonic human life, for the sake of the common good and the protection of all.
I am pro-choice because I believe that all choices are possible to me, and to you, and because I do not want to live in a society
that has no laws that limit choice. We are not yet ready for enlightened anarchy.
Rae Stabosz
President, Catholic Scholars of Delaware
George “The Killer” Tiller is the winner! Great selection.
You can watch O’Reilly interview one of Abortionist Tiller patients “Kelly” at the following link. Scroll down about a third of the way and you will see VIDEO bolded in red. Underneath it, click on “Watch This Segment”.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236279,00.html
Mike
On another note Dred Scott’s Great Great Granddaughter Holds Pro-Life View on Abortion!
http://www.lifenews.com/nat2968.html
It seems she watched Dr. Bernard Nathanson’s (one of the founding members of NARAL) internet video on SilentScream.Org and this solidified her pro-life position.
The list keeps getting larger and larger. We are winning everyone over (those who have a conscience) to the Pro-Life side!
Mike
Jill,thank you for a wonderful article!The world needs more like you to help expose the dirty world of abortion! Are thay serious? An award for baby killers? Or is the award for the women he’s killed and maimed?This disgusting killer makes me want to puke!
You’re being ever so judgemental, which goes against Jesus’ teachings. Enjoy hellfire, you worthless slime. Maybe I should act like a “real man” and come to your house to beat the piss out of you.
Your bestest buddy,
Justin
You incorrectly assessed “judge not, lest ye be judged,” Justin. To do that is to say someone is going to hell, as you did me. Only God can judge.
On the contrary, Jesus called as spade a spade. Recall in Matthew 23:33, He was quite opinionated for instance when he called the hypocritical Pharisees and Sadducees, “You snakes! You brood of vipers!”
And, by the way, are you threatening me?
Thanks, Dr. Tiller, for providing a much-needed service to women in the face of opposition from people like this who hate freedom and the right to choose. Keep up the good work.
But Jill, I thought real men hit women when they disagreed.
That was a quite interesting blog you just had that referenced the wonderful source of the Godfather.
No Jill. He’s merely asking if you want him to do as you said. You said a real man hits women. Should he hit you?
Jill, I am a nurse like you.I don’t give a damn what these pro aborts say. Don’t let them rattle you.They are evil people that are in need of prayer. They are wicked! They should do some researching on abortion before spouting off about things they know nothing about. We know the truth. Look at an aborted baby once and get back to me. Women that don’t regret their abortions make terrible mothers anyway. Please do us a favor and get fixed! Jill I applaud you.
Jill,
I did not know your emails also go to Klan Parenthood, NOW and NARAL. Just kidding. Wow, where did all these Pro-Abort posters come from?
Anyhow you have one of the best Pro-Life websites on the web. Don’t worry about the negative posts. I just had a few days off work and I am battling with you on your website. Keep it up & I will keep you in my prayers!
Mike
Your column was informative, and written in a style which produced a smile and a heavy heart at the same time. Keep up the great work.
Cathy and Mike, thanks for the words of encouragement. Mike, I appreciate the links you’ve provided in other spots. I wish you weren’t going back to work!
For the first time since I started this blog, I’m banning nuisance commenters today.
Hi Jill, some of the “pro-abort” commentators might be a nuisance, but others (hopefully me) are just ones who don’t agree with you, but are mostly respectful and are trying to understand and be understood. Are you banning all of us?
Anyone who disagrees with you gets banned?
Wow… democracy and free speech in action.
HYPOCRITE.
Jill
I have you ever been raped? Or as a nurse, experienced someone who has been?
I would like to hear how you would counsel a pregnant rape victim on keeping a seed of violence alive in their womb for nine months.
If you could be successful in that, I would like to hear how you suggest following up after this baby was possibly adopted and asks who his parents are.
Do you lie to this child?
What of the pregnancies created by incestual relationships? Do you honestly believe that god kills these children in the womb to save them from the misery of life outside?
They don’t all die.
I guess both sides of this argument can sting eachother with comments that prove vaild points about this issue, but I’d really like to know how much experience with the subject we truly have. Until you’ve truly been there Jill, how can you pass such scathing judgements? You’ll never know what it’s like to be raped. Rape victims have no choice in being raped just as “innocent fetuses” have no choice in being aborted. The area is so gray and will be gray forever, and that is why we can’t fully ban abortion in this country.
Hal – no, I’ve just banned two, although another is close. I certainly don’t mind dissent. It makes us all think.
Sara, are you saying your solution to pregnancy as an outcome of rape is to kill the child for the crime of her father?
Statistics show that most women who have been raped do not become pregnant, because rape is an act of violence, and men often cannot complete the act, i.e., ejaculate.
Statistics also show that most women who become pregnant from rape do not abort. These women are no different than you and I. They often believe abortion is murder. They furthermore believe two wrongs won’t make a right. They believe, actually, that the child can make something good come from the heinous crime.
The only major study that has been conducted on this showed that women who aborted following a rape were psychologically worse off than those who did not. These women sadly ended up agreeing too late that abortion compounded the crime.
“The only major study that has been conducted on this showed that women who aborted following a rape were psychologically worse off than those who did not. These women sadly ended up agreeing too late that abortion compounded the crime.”
Would you care to provide a source/citation for this information?
Jill,
I find it shocking that you would ban those who disagree with you merely for using the same sort of blatant appeal to emotion, ad hominem argumentation, and biting style that you yourself indulge in when stating your views. The use of the sort of strategies that you tend toward in your writing invite the sort of responses that pro-choicers have been giving.
I also sincerely hope that you have not banned any of those pro-choicers who have been attempting to engage in rationally defending their views despite attacks like “pro-aborts are all wicked” and the like. The free marketplace of ideas is crucial to expanding our horizons and getting at the truth, which, one would hope, is what we are inevitably after.
Oh, and I, too, would like to see the source for the study your reference with regard to rape victims.
Abortionists have no respect for the women that come to see them.That’s why a lot of them are getting away with rapes and molestations.Women write in horror stories to these web sites about abortionists asking them out on dates or asking them for their phone numbers after their abortion procedures.This is really sick.Most women said that they were filled with shame and didn’t come forward right away.As a woman myself,I can’t imagine women not telling.What about the next patient?This is just one more reason that supports the claim that abortion is bad medicine.
“Statistics show that most women who have been raped do not become pregnant, because rape is an act of violence, and men often cannot complete the act, i.e., ejaculate.”
I was raped, I got pregnant. It wasn’t the stereotypical “dark alley” rape, either, but I’ll spare you the details.
“Statistics also show that most women who become pregnant from rape do not abort. ”
I aborted.
“The only major study that has been conducted on this showed that women who aborted following a rape were psychologically worse off than those who did not. These women sadly ended up agreeing too late that abortion compounded the crime.”
Nope, I do not regret it at all.
Guess I’m just a walking contradiction.
Lally –
At the Planned Parenthood I interned at, every single one of the OB/GYNs is a woman.
There are just as many complaints of sexual harassment against other specialists, including OB/GYNs who do not perform abortions, as there are against those who do provide abortions. Not all doctors are perfect human beings. There are sexual harassment claims against dentists and nephrologists too… but would you make a generalization about all of them as well?
Isnt it sort of ironic that you are concerned about women’s safety, while supporting Ms Stanek, who last week published a column that advocated domestic abuse?
“Statistics show that most women who have been raped do not become pregnant, because rape is an act of violence, and men often cannot complete the act, i.e., ejaculate.”
You’re joking… Why do you think that they rape in the first place? They get off on it. Same as those who watch violent porn. It’s not going to stop them from ejaculating.
Lally,
First of all, I would like to see the reports you are referencing. Could you point me to some (non-biased) sources?
Second, even given that such tragic events are occurring, I don’t think this gives us reason to claim that “abortion is bad medicine”. I seem to remember that similar problems have been reported with dentists who have taken advantage of patients under the influence of anesthetic and with gynecologists. Are we now, on the basis of this, going to conclude that dentistry and gynecology are “bad medicine”? The sad fact that some people take advantage of others who are in their care has no bearing on whether or not the general practice is a good idea or not.
“Jill, I am a nurse like you.I don’t give a damn what these pro aborts say. Don’t let them rattle you.They are evil people that are in need of prayer. They are wicked! They should do some researching on abortion before spouting off about things they know nothing about. We know the truth. Look at an aborted baby once and get back to me. Women that don’t regret their abortions make terrible mothers anyway. Please do us a favor and get fixed! Jill I applaud you.”
“Evil” “wicked” “truth” “prayer”
Thanks for shoving the religion down our throats, Cathy.
Nurse or not, you don’t have a choice on another woman’s bodily autonomy. This goes for you, Jill, too. Just because you have been trained in the medical profession does not give you the right to make a decision for a woman that involves her body, which, coincidentally, pregnancy does. Even a doctor cannot decide for a woman. A doctor, not an “abortionist”.
It doesn’t matter if something is “innocent” as you so deem. If it is using the resources and suffering of another being to survive, it doesn’t have a right to continue living if the person it is leeching from does not want it there. A woman’s uterus belongs to her. Mandating that she allow a biological freeloader to usurp control of her uterus, HER property, is mandating that her body be government property. Maybe it does have a right to live, but it doesn’t have that right if it is causing pain/suffering to the being that provides its life support and doesn’t want it to do so (i.e. the mother).
That said, I am not “pro-abortion”. I just think that the right to bodily autonomy and the choice of what one allows to be done to his or her body is paramount over the rights of a being trying to usurp control over said body, whether it be aware of said takeover or not. Innocence has no bearing on it, and you do not have any right to control or use my body for your benefit if I do not grant you the right to do it. The same goes for a fetus.
I remember awhlie back, that there was a doctor who raped a coma pacient and got her pregnant, does this mean that all doctors are bad and that I shouldn’t go the doctor’s anymore?
Statistics show that after 6 weeks, the fetus, if given the rights of an 18 year-old adult, is able to compose a symphony, draft a plan to bring peace the world, and integrate computer networks using only the power of its as yet nonfunctional mind.
Powerful stuff. Save TeH Baybeezzorz!
In response to you Amanda,I agree that any doctor could get into trouble,however abortionists are low lifes anyway.I am an RN. I went to nursing school to heal.A doctor that murders babies is no doctor anyway.I have done too much research on abortion to know better.Most of the abortionists in my town are men.How are abortionists[pp included]getting away with NON-REPORTING of rapes of minors??That is inexcusable!!I have even heard audio tapes of this as proof.It doesn’t matter if they are men or women doctors.They sent that minor child back into a cycle of sexual abuse.Many returned for repeat abortions.
“Statistics show that after 6 weeks, the fetus, if given the rights of an 18 year-old adult, is able to compose a symphony, draft a plan to bring peace the world, and integrate computer networks using only the power of its as yet nonfunctional mind.”
Fantasy Fetii!!!
Lee—
Documentation? Sources?
Without them, I’m afraid you won’t be able to get your point across. Or even sound credible.
“Fantasy Fetii!!!”
Never underestimate the power of wishful thinking and appeals to emotion. A fetus can do great things if it just believes in itself…
Lee –
Im a healthcare professional too…
I guess I’m a “low life” because I work for an “abortionist”? Thats a wee bit judgemental coming from a nurse, no?
I work with at-risk pregnant teens. Some of them choose to have an abortion, many of them do not. I’m a low life for teaching them the sex ed their parents never bothered to teach them because it was too uncomfortable or they just didnt care? I’m a low life because I make sure girls know about WIC and girls homes and adoption before they make up their minds? I’m a low life for studying reproductive health and history and knowing what awful things go on when abortion is not legal?
In terms of reporting rape – if you really are a nurse, you know that HIPAA regulations forbid you from divuldging private patient information. We encourage them, even BEG them to report it, we refer them to battered women’s shelters, to girls homes, to social workers, etc. But you cannot FORCE someone to report a rape, regardless of whether they’re getting an abortion or not. There have been a handful of girls in my program that are keeping their babies, but REFUSE to report their rape. If I reported their rapes – they believe their lives and the lives of their babies are in danger – and they will stop coming for prenatal care, parenting lessons, breastfeeding education, counseling, and all of the other services they are offered. Until we as a culture (men and women) stop treating rape victims like criminals, how can we expect women to want to come forward, knowing full well that they will be judged, harassed, embarassed, and demonized? In ADDITION to the fact that just the act of reporting their rape may leave them homeless or dead?
If you think failure to report only happens in abortion clinics, you are very VERY mistaken. It happens every day in emergency rooms. Patients refuse to leave their names, get a rape kit so they can get the Plan B, and take off.
But what do I know? Im just a “low life”…
“In response to you Amanda,I agree that any doctor could get into trouble,however abortionists are low lifes anyway.I am an RN. I went to nursing school to heal.A doctor that murders babies is no doctor anyway.I have done too much research on abortion to know better.Most of the abortionists in my town are men.How are abortionists[pp included]getting away with NON-REPORTING of rapes of minors??That is inexcusable!!I have even heard audio tapes of this as proof.It doesn’t matter if they are men or women doctors.They sent that minor child back into a cycle of sexual abuse.Many returned for repeat abortions.
Posted by: Lee at March 7, 2007 04:37 PM”
Glad to see that you were trained so well as a nurse that you know the difference between a baby and a fetus.
Remind me never to visit your hospital.
Erik
The decision when it comes to a woman and her body should be made before a woman has sex!She should make the choice to have protected sexual relations!If you can’t manage this much control over your body then DON’T HAVE SEX AT ALL!!!!!As far as your womb goes,remember that an abortion can damage it for life!My friend had 7 abortions-yes7!!!She had to undergo an emergency hysterectomy.SHE HAS NO WOMB anymore.All because of CHOICE/several poor ones at that. Here is another way to see to it that you wont have an unwanted pregnancy.It’s called steralization.That’s a great CHOICE!
@Lee:
Believe it or not, not all rape victims want to endure the rape aftermath which currently consists her being called an irresponsible, lying, insane whore (who was asking for it, by the way) by the prosecution, the media, and random people who read the news that have not been (and in many cases, men that will never be) raped.
Case in point: I’d bet that you’ve never been raped, have you?
@Rachel: Your friend is the best example of why we need comprehensive sex education that I’ve ever heard, can I tell her story in the future?
Well Amanda,You work for baby killers.You are a low life.Erik,why don’t you shed some light?Your so smart.And I will back up my facts after both of your replies.Amanda don’t you get tired of helping rip babies to shreds?
Gee Rachel, your terribly uninformed and probably shouldn’t talk but just to go ahead and fill you in on a little secret: most abortions are a result of a failed contraceptive. So your above statement is absolutely meaningless since the majority of women do take precautions to avoid pregnancy. And your friend who used abortion as a form of birth control is in a very small percentage of women, not everyone is that completely irresponsible.
Rachel –
First of all, it is incredibly silly for you to compare a woman who has had SEVEN abortions to the majority of women who have ONE. Thats like saying we should make BigMacs illegal, because theres always going to be someone who has 7 a week and dies of congestive heart failure while most people can have one on occaision and be perfectly healthy.
Also, the majority of doctors will not perform a tubal ligation or hysterectomy on a woman under 30. Even if they did, if there is not an underlying medical condition, it would be considered an elective procedure and would not be covered by most health insurance plans. Most women cannot afford such a procedure paying out-of-pocket. The best solution for your friend, who is obviously quite fertile, would have been an IUD.
Psst, Lee. Fun fact for you. Us babykillers don’t like idiots who use abortion as a primary form of birth control any more than you do, it’s irresponsible.
Why don’t you back up your facts before calling people names, Lee?
Also, Jill, we’re still waiting on citations from you. If they exist.
Erik,have you ever read the signs at abortion rallies?It reads WHO BENEFITS FROM ABORTION?Women? Babies? Irresponsible men? Check mark by irresponsible men. BINGO.You are a man so..never mind
@Jen: Citations from the last decade are preferable, I’m sick of seeing people claim that embryos can feel pain at six weeks because of a speculation made in a 30-year-old paper.
Rachel, no one reads the signs at abortion rallies because they’re obnoxious and loaded with fake pictures.
He’s a man, so he must be irresponsible? Nice logic train you have going there.
Why are you so angry?
Lee-
Wow. Such venom and hate coming from someone who is trying to get a point across… its very counterproductive, because it just makes you look angry instead of intelligent.
Please explain to me how I help “rip babies apart”? Are you referring to D&X? Because if you are, that procedure is not performed at Planned Parenthood. I’m also curious to know how I personally “help rip babies apart” from the patient education department. I must have very long arms…
@Rachel: You’re right, he is a man, so why should he decide that a woman must carry his child in her uterus for nine months? Oh, wait, it’s not his choice because it’s not his body.
Rachel
Who benefits from abortion? Erm, women who’d rather die than carry a rape fetus to term? Women whose health is threatened by a pregnancy? Women who already have a few children and cannot possibly afford to have one more? Women who simply do not want to take on the potential health risks every pregnancy bears for a child they don;t want?
Who do you think benefits from banning abortion? Right: Men. The controlling type who fears his woman could abort his offspring without him having a say. How about that?
And writing in capital letters does not make you more convincing.
1 abortion vs.3 HMMMMM let me see. We aren’t talking about BIG MACS here lady. We are talking about HUMAN LIFE. Quite a difference. You sound incompetent to me.1 murder vs.3 All murderers should be in jail.
Okay so I’m a man so I… am irresponsible and impregnate women and then force them to get abortions? That makes absolutely no sense, WHATSOEVER. I support a woman having complete bodily autonomy, becaue I wouldn’t want anyone taking mine.
Jill, are you going to cite those resources anytime soon?
And by saying things like “rip babies apart” you are all only appealing to your deluded viewpoint that an abortion is tantamount to some grisly murder scene.
Pathetic.
-Erik
I’m waiting on several citations from several people. But, apparently calling people names and making no coherent sense in posts are more important.
Jill, you’ve got all this time to write inflammatory pieces, but you couldn’t find the time to cite a statistic with it’s source? Seems pretty ridiculous to me.
BTW, you’ve been nominated for the first annual Women’s Rights Killer Award. Congratulations.
@Rachel: My mother had an abortion about 9 years before I was born. She was unmarried and the sex ed she received didn’t mention that pulling out doesn’t work, because that’s what sex ed was 30 years ago. She got pregnant, and her parents would have disowned her if they found out. Would I give up my life to prevent that from happening to my mother? Yes, I would. I couldn’t miss what I never had, anyway.
Jen, hold your horses. She has to beat out Ann Coulter first.
Rachel…
If I sound “incompetent” to you… I’m going to go ahead and take that as a compliment.
Thank you.
Also, using capslock does not make you sound more intelligent. You sound very angry. Perhaps this is not a great forum for you to be in – if it gets you so riled up, its actually very unhealthy for you.
All I said was that she was nominated. Ann Coulter obviously gets a nomination, along with Wendy Wright, the president of Concerned Women for America. You should see her work on trying to stop CEDAW (Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women) from getting ratified in the UN. Apparently, there’s a lot wrong with ending discrimination against women.
While everyone is enjoying the coffee house at the same time, I have some pictures you all can look at. I know everyone here owns a camera and likes to look at pictures…
http://www.missionariestopreborn.com/default.asp?fuseaction=photoshome
Mike
Amanda you can try to justify what you do till the cows come home.I don’t care if the baby is 11 weeks old or 6 months.You are the one with the anger.Many nurses side with me. Murder will never be acceptable.You can too it and turn it any way you want to. It is what it is.Perhaps people don’t read pro life signs.However they do look at pictures when the death clinics don’t try to keep them from looking at them.A 10 year old could see that it’s a baby-NOT a blood clot.
Well thankfully Lee, most people in this country are pro-choice so it doesn’t really matter what kind of hateful, false, statements you make. A woman will still be given the right to dominion over her own body and that is that. So cry all you want and call whoever you want a baby killer, it will do you no good. And we will continue to educate people on the facts of this issue and not visceral reactions to fake pictures and emotionally-blinded slogans and rants.
Tah.
Erik
“However they do look at pictures when the death clinics don’t try to keep them from looking at them.”
I call it “being respectful of human remains”. Tomato, tomato. Doesn’t really work over the internet, does it?
Erik,
People are becoming more and more Pro-Life and the Supreme Court is changing. Roberts and Alito are now justices who are most likely Pro-Life.
Most grave human injustices are legal for roughly 40 years until they are made illegal. First slavery was made illegal and soon it will finally be abortion.
Mike
Amanda is so smart.That’s why she’s a baby killer!
Amanda – I applaud you for what you do. We need more people like you in the world who dedicate themselves to helping women in an extremely difficult situation and who work to prevent such situations for arising in the future. Bravo!
Lee- You see extremely upset about the fact that abortion kills a “baby”. But you’re overlooking the important fact that the baby, even if it is a person (which I personally believe it is not), does not have a right to utilize the body of another person for survival. This is true of born, thinking, feeling humans, so it is certainly the case for a fetus.
And please inform yourself, abortion is one of the least-used services that “death mills” provide. More prominent in the array of services given are birth control, so they won’t get pregnant in the first place, ordinary gynecological exams, STI check-ups and treatment, etc.
Mike-
Actually the pro-choice/pro-life split has remained about the same for years. So, your wrong. Have fun with being wrong though. And keep being a misogynist telling women what to do with their body, thats REALLY cool. Good thing your beliefs will never be put into law.
-Erik
@Mike: Slavery lasted a lot longer than “40 years”. Also, abortion was already illegal. We’re past that stage, now into the “Ha! What were we thinking back when abortion was illegal?” stage.
Amanda,I will go to any site I so choose.You believe in choice right? I choose to be here.
Amanda,I will go to any site I so choose.You believe in choice right? I choose to be here.
Sometimes it’s necessary to protect people from themselves. That’s why drugs are illegal and all that jazz.
Lee –
I am the one with the anger? Really? Thats interesting. Considering that in this particular case, the law and the majority of voters are on my side, and I have not resorted to calling those who oppose my opinion rude names or insulted them, I fail to see how I am angry.
Many nurses side with you. Many nurses don’t. Whats your point?
Perhaps I don’t read pro life signs? Its kind of hard to NOT see them, when people hold them in my face and call me a whore for going to work, tell me that Jesus hates me, I deserve to die, and all sorts of hateful ignorance. And why would I need to see a picture (probably a fake one at that) when I have seen it with my own eyes?
Granted, its sad, and its not pretty… no surgery is pretty. But I have also seen before my eyes girls who have intentionally overdosed on drugs to try to have a miscarriage, girls who cut themselves or attempted suicide upon finding out they were pregnant, one girl who went to an ethnic medicine woman who inserted an onion soaked in hot pepper juice in her vagina to cause a “natural” miscarriage, I’ve seen the autopsy photos of newborns who were dumped in bags or thrown out windows because the girl was too ashamed to admit she was pregnant.
Why are you insinuating that I referred to a fetus as a blood clot? I never did, in fact, you’re the only one who has referred to it as such.
You also completley ignored everything I said about HIPAA and rape reporting in ERs, which makes me think you are probably not really a nurse…besides the fact that even the pro-life nurses I’ve encountered in my life have been kind and used intelligence and understanding to communicate their point rather than venom and name-calling.
You also failed to explain to me how I assist in “ripping babies to shreds” from the patient education department which happens to be on a different floor – depending on the day, sometimes in an entirely different building. Also, abortions are only performed on Saturdays. I don’t work on weekends, and I assure you, I have no magic powers. Just an education.
Hey Amanda,I don’t applaud you. I am an Oncology nurse.Do you sit down with each abortion patient and let them know about the increased risk of breast CA linked to abortion? Do you leave that part out to help sell abortions?How about cervical CA and lacerations.Are you just a big liar like the rest of these clinic workers?Good news is these clinics are shutting down.Oh ya,Amanda do you see women after abortion with PAS? What do you do in cases like these?
A real nurse-
First, I find it very interesting that you have the same no-spaces-between-sentences writing style as Lee. Fascinating.
Second, most cervical cancer is caused by several strains of HPV. I’ve never heard of any cases of abortion causing cervical cancer. Would you like to send me an (un-biased) source on that?
I applaud Amanda. She’s out on the front lines trying to make life better for people. She’s not standing on a high horse ranting and raving about the precious fetii and claiming to know what is best for every individual based on a few generalizations and propagated lies.
Anyone who suggests that she is trying to “sell abortions” needs to pull their head out of that rather unsanitary place it is currently located.
“Dr. Tiller, nominated as the worst American of us all.”
The man served for years as a Navy flight surgeon, keeping pilots alive and ready for duty. Yeah, he’s a terrible American.
Amanda is definitely awesome. She’s one of the most educated people that has posted on this board and the one making the most difference in the world! ^_^
Hey Zurg-Being respectful over human remains?Who created those remains?A murderer abortionist.He took that little baby that God created and tore it limb from limb.You people are wrong. The majority is pro-life.Women that I know who have had abortions regret them.When I ask people how they feel about abortion they reply “It’s murder” It is!Most women I have spoken to with PAS say that PP turned a deaf ear to them when they needed help.They found love and support in pro life groups.They turned from their selfish ways and repented.Only then will the post abortive woman find healing.
What’s up with people on this blog not using spaces after their periods?
“You people are wrong. The majority is pro-life.”
ORLY?
CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. Jan. 19-21, 2007. N=1,008 adults nationwide. MoE ? 3.
“Would you like to see the Supreme Court overturn its 1973 Roe versus Wade decision concerning abortion, or not?”
Would Would Not Unsure
29 62 9
Hippa is patient confidentiality Amanda. Amanda is not awsome.She assists in murdering babies for her weekly pay.
“What’s up with people on this blog not using spaces after their periods?”
I think they might be the same person. The general claims and writing styles are the same.
Remember, I am the Antrollpologist.
“Women that I know who have had abortions regret them.”
And I know women, including myself, who don’t regret it at all. Who feel they made the right decision. The fact that people sometimes make a decision that is not right for them is no reason to take away the choice.
“When I ask people how they feel about abortion they reply “It’s murder” It is!”
Is this an argument from the idea that people feel a certain way about abortion to the fact that it is that way? Then the conclusion does not follow from the premise
“Most women I have spoken to with PAS say that PP turned a deaf ear to them when they needed help.”
I find that very difficult to believe, given that PP is dedicated to helping women. Follow up appointments are there for a reason.
Diana and Danielle,you both seem to need some attention.Tell me do you know anything about PAS?Please do elaborate.
Andrea-
Some attention? I hope that wasn’t meant to be demeaning.
I’ve heard of “PAS”. I haven’t seen it personally, nor have I seen a single unbiased study demonstrating 1) that it is a true medical condition and 2)that it is prevalent among women who’ve had abortions. Even then, I don’t see the move from “Some women feel bad after they’ve aborted” to “Abortion should be illegal”. Some women suffer PPD, should pregnancy and childbirth be illegal?
Landon,perhaps I am the same person.What’s it to you? You have too much time on your hands.What do you have to add to this blog other than taking note of other people’s posts?
“Amanda is not awsome.She assists in murdering babies for her weekly pay.”
Perhaps you do not know what an intern is.
I do not get paid.
You still haven’t responded to a single point that I’ve made, besides continuing to retort with childish name calling.
Very interesting.
I wish I had too much time on my hands. This is more of an idle amusement for me than anything. As noted earlier, the true fight rages elsewhere.
Well Amanda,perhaps you are becoming a doctor or a nurse practitioner.I really don’t care.I am tired and I am going to put my children to bed.I can’t change your view and you can’t change mine.I am going to shut my eyes tonight knowing that I never killed anyone or assisted in their death.The rest is up to God.I just get so upset and cringe when I think of babies being ripped from their mother’s wombs.It is horrible and I pray that it will be illegal one day.God bless to all.
Who’s ripping babies out of wombs? I’m pretty sure it’s a fetus being removed, not a baby.
It’s very hard to take people seriously when they can’t even use the correct terminology.
The mental image of one-year-old babies trying desperately to escape the clutches of a cigar-chomping, mustachio-twirling “abortionist” has a strong influence on the weak minded.
Amanda – you go girl! Way to stand up for what you believe in, even in the face of ignorance. You’re absolutely awesome.
And thank you to Dr. Tiller for making abortion a choice for so many women struggling to make a decision that is often times the hardest they have ever made.
“Jill, I am a nurse like you.I don’t give a damn what these pro aborts say. Don’t let them rattle you.They are evil people that are in need of prayer. They are wicked! They should do some researching on abortion before spouting off about things they know nothing about. We know the truth. Look at an aborted baby once and get back to me. Women that don’t regret their abortions make terrible mothers anyway. Please do us a favor and get fixed! Jill I applaud you.”
“Evil” “wicked” “truth” “prayer”
Thanks for shoving the religion down our throats, Cathy.
Nurse or not, you don’t have a choice on another woman’s bodily autonomy. This goes for you, Jill, too. Just because you have been trained in the medical profession does not give you the right to make a decision for a woman that involves her body, which, coincidentally, pregnancy does. Even a doctor cannot decide for a woman. A doctor, not an “abortionist”.
It doesn’t matter if something is “innocent” as you so deem. If it is using the resources and suffering of another being to survive, it doesn’t have a right to continue living if the person it is leeching from does not want it there. A woman’s uterus belongs to her. Mandating that she allow a biological freeloader to usurp control of her uterus, HER property, is mandating that her body be government property. Maybe it does have a right to live, but it doesn’t have that right if it is causing pain/suffering to the being that provides its life support and doesn’t want it to do so (i.e. the mother).
That said, I am not “pro-abortion”. I just think that the right to bodily autonomy and the choice of what one allows to be done to his or her body is paramount over the rights of a being trying to usurp control over said body, whether it be aware of said takeover or not. Innocence has no bearing on it, and you do not have any right to control or use my body for your benefit if I do not grant you the right to do it. The same goes for a fetus.
feedback?
“It doesn’t matter if something is “innocent” as you so deem. If it is using the resources and suffering of another being to survive, it doesn’t have a right to continue living if the person it is leeching from does not want it there. A woman’s uterus belongs to her. Mandating that she allow a biological freeloader to usurp control of her uterus, HER property, is mandating that her body be government property. Maybe it does have a right to live, but it doesn’t have that right if it is causing pain/suffering to the being that provides its life support and doesn’t want it to do so (i.e. the mother).”
Thank you Alyssa. I get so fed up with all the arguments about personhood and “does the fetus have rights or doesn’t it”. But when it comes down to it, inuitively, even another person, with all the rights that come with that status, doesn’t have the right to leech off your body without your permission – even for their own survival.
So you were awake enough to call me names and make baseless, uneducated accusations, yet when it comes to addressing the points I brought up and engaging in a productive debate, you were too tired.
I also have to address what you said about changing minds…
Along with 2 other college educated women, I run an online forum to educate people about reproductive rights. As of tonight, the group has over 93 thousand members. Between the three of us, we have recieved multiple emails from men and women who did indeed change their minds after being better informed. I also helped to facilitate a meeting between the Pro Life and Pro Choice groups on my campus, with the intention of finding common ground – instead of using insults, propaganda, or advocating violence as many of you have, many members of the campus pro life group came to the meeting with open minds and dialogue, so we were able discuss how to reduce abortion using methods beyond laws and punishment. The information my classmates and I shared at that meeting helped me form the curriculum I plan to impliment once I finish my Masters Degree.
So in a way you are right – when people call one another names, use sarcasm, condemn people they don’t even know, judge them, hate them, and advocate violence – no one’s mind will change. But with responsible conversation, respect, compassion, and knowledge – you’d be surprised at how easy it is to get along and work together for a greater good.
@Mom of 3: http://imnotsorry.net
“They turned from their selfish ways and repented.”
How selfish of people to want autonomy over their bodies. Hey, if you won’t be using your uterus, I want to rent out the space for storage. You’re a portable safety deposit box, it’s amazing. And if you say “no, you have no say over what happens in my body”, you’re damn right and you’re claiming the same right to bodily autonomy that you’d deny to hundreds of thousands of women.
Besides, that Cathy has some nerve for saying that all women who abort and don’t feel bad about it would make terrible mothers. Wow.
Cathy, I dare you to say that to the face of a mother who had a previous abortion. You’re an abomination.
Funny how ‘Mom’ hasn’t posted again after claiming that the majority of the people in the country are pro-life. Understandable, if I made a fraudulant claim and then moments later had the truth come back showing that not only was I kind of wrong, I was VERY wrong, I would feel horribly stupid and uninformed as well.
Oh, and I showed the article on how real men beat women to my sisters friend who is a priest, and very pro-lifer, and he said he was disgusted by Jill Stanek and ashamed that she considered herself pro-life. He actually said he’d rather have her on our side. I laughed and told him we didn’t want her. Very strong words from a priest, no?
Anyway, I am done on here, and will sleep well knowing that the issue at hand is well protected and we are right.
-Erik
Hi Eric, Alyssa …
I’ve been going over several threads here … and the pro-aborts posts leave me very ‘cold’ and the pro-lifers seem to be massively confused by the emptiness. It is somewhat similar to taking rides at a ‘fun park’ … while a few love the wild/different thrill-rides, many others relish terra firma.
There are a few things to help the situation: understand that the American constitution is not (and was never) designed as a replacement for religious experience. It is a very poor help in developing human-identity but good at self-identity (as in isolation) .
The core of the Christian life-experience is denoted by the simple words ‘one’ and ‘in’. As … ‘I and Abba are one.’ or, ‘He is in me and I in Him’. Love is a community reality. Describing any human being as a ‘leech’ shakes my sense of human-identity to the quick. All human beings (including pro-choicers) are my brothers and sisters.
Can I expect that both you are I are attempting to achieve a much better world or, should I expect a knife-in-my-back? The most profound experience I understand is the bonding of identical twins, closely followed by the bond between a mother and her child. Too often that bond seems remote … then let’s attempt to fix the problem …. trying to destroy the bond by claiming life for a babe but worthless (a leech) is highly troublesome. Especially when knowing that the fetus actively sends stem cells into its mother, to repair organ defects.
Naming such a relationship as ownership … as if your body is a possession distinct from you is even more frightening … I took this years ago in a philosophy course, but knew no one who actually lived as a robot. The person who chooses to live this way cannot accept simple love of self…. as Cybill did (in the movie) … cannot hug themselves.
(Editing disabled while spellchecking)
Stop spell checking
First let me thank you, John, for being civil towards myself and Erik. It is much appreciated.
However, I fail to see how a uterus is NOT property of the woman in which it “resides”. Do you have the right to use any part of my body for your personal survival if I do not allow it? No. Why? Because any part of my body is my property, and property is an unalienable right. My uterus is an organ that belongs to me, my body, and I have the right to determine what does and does not use it to survive. I can choose to submit myself to suffering to bring a fetus to term (in fact, I plan on being a mother one day…when I’m ready, not when the government or pro-lifers decide I’m ready). I do not, however, have to feel that I am obligated to endure pain and suffering to grant life to another being, regardless of how it came to be dependent on my body, my property, my suffering.
Oh, but I do love myself. I have deep respect for myself, my powers as a woman, and my abilities as a human being. I do not, however, love and value myself just because I can bear children. I love being who I am because I am granted rights to decide when to become a professional in a career field, a student in college, or a mother. I would not love being who I am if fundamental rights, especially rights to my own person and bodily integrity, were infringed upon.
Hi again Alyssa,
I do not want to go on and on ad nauseum … I am not a teacher. However, I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to word use. Why not try joy, peace, happiness, courage, hope, … love, intimacy and such to describe human relationships … loosen-up … instead of fearfully anticipating carrying a leech … so then you are the mother of a leech, try instead ‘hoping to be Mom to my precious babe’. The very same scenario gives rise to a whole different approach. Do you believe he/she deserves less than your deepest cherishing? You CAN do this!
just read you post, Alyssa,
try to understand that being a mother might be equivalent to a career, but being some-one’s Mom is in a whole different league … “Mom” and “mother” are very, very different realities.
@John: not all unexpected pregnancies result from relationships that are accurately described by “love” and “intimacy”. Also, as cool as babies are, they’re expensive.
That amount of money (and time/effort, medical bills, the myriad of things that can go wrong with even the healthiest pregnancy, PPD, etc) are not “joys” to one not ready to handle them. Most pro-choicers plan to have children at some point, but I myself am not going to drop everything to raise a kid because my gf’s pill nailed that 0.1% chance, nor would I be reasonable to ask a woman to do so on my account.
link which didn’t work: http://www.babycenter.com/costofchild/
Clarification: “I myself am not going to drop everything to raise a kid” RIGHT NOW. Give me a couple years to finish college, find the proper girl to settle down with, get a real job, set some cash aside, etc., then I’ll gladly have a kid on my terms.
Hi ZuRG,
I’m (literally) on my way out! so relationships have become extremely important. Just last week, a buddy hoped he would be ‘getting lucky’ on his date. But figured for me, ‘getting lucky’ was just having someone (anyone!) to chat with. So what do I know, eh?
It means different things for different people. How important were relationships to you a month ago? Did that affect your thoughts on these issues? What might that suggest?
Hi again ZuRG,
I think perhaps a change of mindset might be ripe for you … in describing those words, I was not at all thinking of man-woman relationships but more of child-to-parent (specifically Mom). However, the same applies to “Daddy” as well.
a Father sires a child; Daddy raises him! ::: a saying to think about!
@John: I applied the terms to both categories of relationships, both man-woman and parent-child. I maintain that kids are great, but not necessarily if you’re not ready to take on the task that awaits you.
Could someone on this board please explain to me the difference between a fetus and baby?I really want to know.
Amanda, 3:13p; Diana, 3:39p; Jen, 5:10p; and Eric, 5:18p: Here is the source for the information I gave on rape and abortion: Mahkorn, “Pregnancy and Sexual Assault,” The Psychological Aspects of Abortion, eds. Mall & Watts, (Washington, D.C., University Publications of America, 1979) 55-69
This study found 75-80% of pregnant rape victims choose against abortion. Four reasons:
1) About 70% believe abortion would be just another act of violence perpetrated against their bodies and their children.
2. Some believe their child’s life may have some intrinsic meaning or purpose which they do not yet understand. This child was brought into their lives by a horrible, repulsive act. But perhaps God, or fate, will use the child for some greater purpose. Good can come from evil.
3. Victims of assault often become introspective. Their sense of the value of life and respect for others is heightened. They have been victimized, and the thought that they in turn might victimize their own innocent child through abortion is repulsive.
4. The victim senses if she can get through the pregnancy, she will have conquered the rape. By giving birth, she can reclaim some of her lost self-esteem.
Another study (Zakus, “Adolescent Abortion Option,” Social Work in Health Care, 12(4):87 (1987)) found the “experiential association between abortion and sexual assault is very strong for many women… is just one reason why women with a history of sexual assault are likely to experience greater distress during and after an abortion than other women.”
Yet another study (4. Maloof, “The Consequences of Incest: Giving and Taking Life” The Psychological Aspects of Abortion (eds. Mall & Watts, Washington, D.C., University Publications of America, 1979) 84-85) found that “incest victims rarely ever voluntarily agree to an abortion. Instead of viewing the pregnancy as unwanted, the incest victim is more likely to see the pregnancy as a way out of the incestuous relationship because the birth of her child will expose the sexual activity.”
Source for all: http://www.afterabortion.org/healing/index.htm
John, again, you cannot deny that what a fetus does to a woman’s body is tantamount to “leeching”. The point is, however,a woman may decide to nurture that fetus so that she may one day give birth to it and raise it lovingly as her child. A woman may also decide that she is not ready to sacrifice herself for nine months through pain and her own suffering to nurture another being. That is the beauty of pro-choice. A woman’s body is still her own. No one, not even her future child, should be given rights over it even to survive, unless she truly wants to sacrifice herself. That’s the meaning of motherhood, willing sacrifice. Not grudgingly because someone else wants you to.
I plan on sacrificing my body someday to bring a child into this world. I will do it willingly and lovingly. But I will also only do it when I am ready and on my own terms, because it is not anyone else’s body that suffers to do so but my own. And believe me, after nine months of nurturing something, there will be a bond…and I will love that baby like no other.
But that’s my choice. I will CHOOSE to love and care for another being, and I will not judge others who decide it’s not the right time for them to do so. See the difference?
For Erik-Please don’t reproduce.You sound really immature and selfish.I was going to post again.So here I am. Don’t be so silly as to think I would back away form you and your lame arguement.The people that I speak to tell me that they are pro-life.Tell me,what is the difference between a baby and a fetus?Also please tell me why you feel that the pics. of dead babies are fake. They look darn real to me.I’ll wait for your reply.
How is a child leeching? This is the problem I have with pro-choice arguements.OK-It’s my body as a woman.I made a choice to have sex. I am smart enough to know that sex produces children.The condom breaks.Now there is a child in my womb.It’s now mine.Now am I going to kill the child because of my choice to have sex?My irresponsible behavior.I am excluding cases of rape.If a cop pulled me over for a DUI,there are consequences.In life there are consequences for our actions.I don’t want murder on my record.
Mom-
Just because the people you speak to say they are pro-life does not mean you can make a statement like, “The majority is pro-life,” when it is TOTALLY INCORRECT.
And if you think pro-lifers don’t use fake pictures that just showed how incredibly uneducated you are on all aspects of this argument. Do they only use fake pictures? No. Are the majority of the pictures fake? Not sure. But they do use FAKE pictures, which is tantamount to the pro-life movement using PROPAGANDA. Which is wrong.
As far as me reproducing you can sleep soundly knowing that I fully intend on reproducing and instilling in my children the values I have, such as allowing a woman complete dominion over her body.
-Erik
Oh,Erik-Wait.You forgot to tell me what the difference was between a baby and a fetus.I’m waiting for that. Also,where is your proof that the pics.are not real? Who told you they were fake? Are you in denial about how ugly abortion really is? What do you think it would look like? A bed of roses.Even Amanda says it’s not a pretty site,and she works for an abortionist.
Mom-
The difference between a fetus and an infant is that a fetus is a part of a pregnant woman’s body whereas an infant is not. A baby is no longer dependant upon another persons body, a fetus is.
http://www.lifeandlibertyforwomen.org/truth_about_photos.html
The above is a link to site regarding several of the more “popular” photos used by pro-lifers and Dr.s and other specialists as to why they are fake. Sometimes they merely take one abortive late-term procedure that really can be quite visually unpleasant to see, and label it as the norm when actually late-term third-trimester abortions make up an incredibly small percentage of abortions.
And thank you, I know abortions aren’t pretty. I am not as blind to the truth of a situation as most pro-lifers are. Abortion isn’t pretty, it isn’t fun, no one acts like it is. But just because something is disturbing viscerally has nothing at all to do with the reality of the issue. That is like showing pictures of dead soldiers in WW II and saying, “Oh my lord! Look how bloody and terrible this is! We must stop it!”
So, now that I have refuted everything you have said you can go ahead and apologize for lying about the majority of the population being pro-life, because that really made you look stupid.
-Erik
Erik,while your at it,run the names of these abortionists. Brian L.Finkle,Edward Allred,George Tiller,LeRoy Carhart.See for yourself how these perverts really feel about women.They hate us! I can give you more,but begin with these.Please don’t tell me it’s fake either.If you think it is,then please tell me why is Brian Finkle in prison.He’s not in there for the heck of it.I’m sure the state of Arizona had a good reason.
You are trying to generalize doctors who perform abortions by pointing out a few bad apples? Want me to get a list of dentists or others doctors who have molested women while they incapacitated? It would be a list equal to if not greater to that. That has absolutely no bearing whatsoever about the issue at hand.
Nice try though.
Erik,I took the time to go to your posted pic site.I have seen the pics of Gerri before many times.Former abortionist Bernard Nathanson explains that the facts were distorted by NARAL when it came to the number of illegal abortions being performed.Check out the Cemetery of Choice site.It will give you the names and details of women that are dying today from legal abortions.Personally,I see no difference.
Wow … I really wanted to read this comment thread, but I lost patience. Jill really needs to ban a few more trolls, IMO.
—
On the original topic, I just can’t go along with the idea of “safe” abortions when such shocking cases keep being discovered. Wasn’t legal abortion supposed to save women’s lives? (Except for the unborn women, I suppose.) Wasn’t legal abortion supposed to put the back-alley butchers out of business?
Instead, it seems that legalization simply allowed the back-alley butchers to lease some office space on Main Street and become respectable businessmen…. :(
That said, I’d like to pass along a word of warning to some of the more caustic pro-life commenters (and perhaps to Jill herself): Abortionists are not your enemy. I know, I know … it certainly seems like they are the Badguys here. And yet, many of them are suffering as they work in the business of death. Many of them are trapped — either by conscience or circumstance — in abortion. Read Dr. MacNair’s book Achieving Peace in the Abortion War.
For those of you who are Christian, consider the following:
“For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” (Ephesians 6:12)
Well, since I have answered everything you have asked me and all you can come back with is, “Well so-and-so said the facts were distorted,” I can only assume you are at wits end. Not only that, but you cannot even admit that you blatantly lied. I wish people could just accept that abortions are just an unfortunate fact of life, no one likes them, but it is a womans right to choose. In any case I have made my point, and the only thing I have gotten back is links to propaganda sites and emotionally-blinded arguments. So, in the end, I am glad that the majority is pro-choice and that roe v. wade will stand. I will not be patronizing Jill Stanek’s website any longer because while I don’t mind debating the abortion issue, doing so on the website of a woman who advocates the beating of women makes me feel ill.
-Erik
Jill –
Your most recent source is more than 20 years old, and the two other ones are 30 years old.
If you’re a nurse, you know as well as I do that medical/psychological studies get outdated VERY quickly these days and are usually re-examined every decade or so.
For example, plenty of studies that came out around 1987 projected that the AIDS virus would affect gays and Haitians with little impact on heterosexual whites. They were wrong.
Do you have ANYTHING recent, or do all of the new studies contradict what you’re saying?
You go, girl! I’m sending this one to all my friends. You are my all time FAVORITE columnist.
Oh Erik Please.I’m glad you’re leaving. Where are your facts? Did you even bother to run the names of the abortionists? Let’s see how many dentists you have for me. Let’s see how they compare to the number of abortionists. You give me proof that CHOICE is ahead of the game.Let’s say it was.It still doesn’t make it okay.So give me several names of dentists,and I’ll be happy to look them up.
Amanda, I said it was the only major study ever done on rape/incest, pregnancy, and abortion. I included two other studies on more specific topics within that one that corroborated it.
I don’t know why the feelings of rape/incest victims would change. It certainly would not be that abortion is more accepted today. It’s actually more contentious today than it was then.
Thank you. Abortion is such a vile act! Your article was a very good way to point out the monstrous things those people do. Many condemn the Nazis for the six million Jews who were killed under their regime while condoning the murder of fifty million or so children under the “Pro-Choice” rubric.
Please continue to cover cases where abortion chop shops have been successfully shut down.
I can tell you that the Metropolitan Clinic in New Jersey is closed after almost killing a 20 year old. Also,Dr.Ruddock’s clinic in Ohio closed due to numerous health code violations. I hope the young lady suing Metropolitan wins a bundle.
Dr.Ruddock/abortionist.Closed for numerous health code violations.Metropolitan/abortion center.New Jersey.-Closed.Botched 2 abortions.Killed 1 woman and almost killed another.
lets try yet another tac OK Alyssa and Erik,
we do not seem to be going anywhere with Alyssa’s tight determination of what constitutes ‘self’. [Believe me, Alyssa I do understand your reasoning precisely because I once thought that way too.]
I have over some decades become increasingly disabled and this has forced me to reassess some very basic views. If these basic & incorrect precepts are held fast, they block a growth to freedom … and in this sense such views are myopic …
One such view which many American feminists would balk at is that their view on independence is one of these myopic tenents. Ad nauseum I have heard the preamble to the American Constitution – ‘all men are created equal’- I’ve got little trouble understanding that all of us are created, but ‘equal’ … nada! [I’ll wager that you thought I would post about the rights of the child-in-the-womb vs the wishes (rights) of her Mom.]
In our day, the prevailing view of the human is that of ‘independence’. All the universe … every speck (including humans) are ‘unique’ beings … not ‘equal’. The word ‘equal’ is a comparative reality. How can some-thing be both unique and equal? Answer: not possible.
There are a whole bunch of changes that come from this kind of perception: a) the whole American constitution is much different than assumed. It is the Constitution of a republic (power) mainly, and very little about a democracy. … there are very profound changes in many of our base relations.
For instance, the word to replace ‘independence’ is the way our whole society operates, with ‘inter-dependence’. I love to use the example of simple shoelaces, as a product on inter-dependence in action … our ‘independence’ consists of tying-them-ourselves [exactly as Dad taught us].
For the Christian, Jesus admonished us not to judge others [classify them as ‘equals’] but to care for the ‘other as yourself’… because we are unique but reliant on each other and we are committing suicide if the kill our children.
“Ah, just won’t happen, John!” It happens in-me … will this happen in you, too?
I think Greg just got Godwinned.
I was once an abortionist’s client.
Sorry, I’m not able to nominate him for an award because I never knew his name and can not even recall seeing his face. But he did a real bang-up job.
Because of it, my uterus was shortly afterwards removed – ending my reproductive rights! So much for abortion being for reproductive rights.
Having been through the “mill,” I know that my choice of legal abortion was a devastating, tragic “poor-choice.” I would not recommend it for anyone!
Myra,I am so sorry to hear this. Thanks for sharing. This is happening more and more often than people would like to think.I hope you’re ok.
Ok, John, so what you are trying to say is that since everyone is dependent on someone else in some way, that we should view the fetus as just another person who is dependent on its mother to grow?
I don’t see the point, however, since dependence on someone else’s body is different than dependence on, say, their patronage. Inter-dependence aside, yes, I depend on others to achieve a certain quality of life. But do I live off of their individual bodies? NO. That, my dear, is where inter-dependence breaks off. That is where true independence takes over, because if someone has lost complete control of their bodily integrity to another being, then no true independence and liberties can be achieved. A person’s body is the only thing that they can truly have as their own. A car can be stolen. A house can burn down. But a body, no matter how incapacitated or disabled, will always be the sole property of the person that possesses it. That is the truly independent object. Just because it is my “child” that needs it to survive doesn’t mean that I should be forced to sacrifice the one thing that is truly mine in the whole world. Inter-dependence ends at my body. That ability to decide what happens in and to my body is the most important. Not the “inter-dependence” of another being who may have to use my body to survive.
“I don’t know why the feelings of rape/incest victims would change. It certainly would not be that abortion is more accepted today. It’s actually more contentious today than it was then.”
Jill, can you give me an unbiased source for this claim? Because it seems to me that the past thirty years have, thankfully, despite the attempts of some, seen the rise of the self-sufficiency of women and a greater acceptance of the rights of women. Thus it seems to me that more women today would feel comfortable terminating an unwanted pregnancy than may have felt that way 30 years ago.
Alyssa,So you say that your body is the only thing you can call your own. Well,aren’t you protecting it? Why would you want to put your body through an invasive,surgical procedure? Why would you want to risk a lifetime of possible emotional/physical suffering all because of an abortion? That would be bad for the body and soul. Why would you have sex with someone that you refuse to have babies with? Once that child has implanted,it isn’t your body anymore.
“Once that child has implanted,it isn’t your body anymore.”
Mom- So if you wake up tomorrow to find that you have been plugged into a grown adult who will die if you detach him from you (he is using your body to survive), then it isn’t your body anymore? You have an obligation to allow this person to use your body?
“Why would you want to put your body through an invasive,surgical procedure?”
Every single surgical procedure is invasive to some extent. Abortion, especially early on, is statistically safer than childbirth, with its myriad of complications. Mistakes happen, but they happen in every medical field. They MUST be corrected, but right now, they do occur.
“Why would you want to risk a lifetime of possible emotional/physical suffering all because of an abortion? ”
I’ll turn that question around. Why would I risk the destruction of my entire life, both mentally, socially, economically, and possibly physically for a fetus that was placed inside me without my consent?
“Why would you have sex with someone that you refuse to have babies with?”
Wasn’t my choice. But, once again, sex is not a contract for pregnancy. It is what we make of it.
“Once that child has implanted,it isn’t your body anymore.”
I resent that. If it’s not my body, what’s the point? I am an individual person, with my own dreams, hopes, and fears. I am not a walking incubator.
All surgical procedures carry a risk. Oh, maybe I shouldn’t have had my knee surgery, because there was a risk I might never walk again. Just because of the occasional medical accident, you think that all abortions will end that way. I feel terribly for the women that are harmed during these procedures, but the fact still remains that ANY medical procedure carries risks. I’ve been through invasive procedures. Don’t tell me that I shouldn’t have taken those risks. And don’t tell me, or anyone else, how they should feel about an abortion. Someone close to me has had one. She isn’t scarred for life. Just because there is a CHANCE of that happening, doesn’t mean that all women will experience it.
Why do I want to face nine months of possible emotional/physical suffering all because of a pregnancy? People lose the function of their uteruses due to pregnancy too, not just abortion. My mother’s best friend has a hysterectomy because the pregnancy RUINED her body. Pregnancies are much more dangerous than abortions so don’t give me your crap about “possible physical/emotional harm”.
And who are you to tell anyone who to have sex with? You don’t have to want to have babies with someone to love them. Even married people who don’t want children still want to have sex. I know of several older married couples who never wanted children, but it’s obvious they don’t have to abstain from sex. The same goes for people who love one another and have sex. They don’t need a child to validate their love.
Scratch that, I should’ve said a “lifetime” of possible emotional/physical suffering because of pregnancy. Not nine months. My mother’s friend has never been able to recover fully from the havoc the pregnancy wreaked on her body. My God, you people all think the fetus is the only one a pregnancy affects.
I wouldn’t tell you who to have sex with Alyssa That’s up to you. An abortion is an invasive “elective” procedure. It is not something that you need. You should be preventing an unwanted pregnancy instead of terminating it. If you are sleeping with someone and the condom breaks,then why are you spreading your legs if having a baby with him is the worst thing that could happen.This is where taking control of your body comes in. How about respect for yourself? At 1 month of pregnancy I heard my baby’s heart beating.That wasn’t my heart.Not the heart of a parasite either{how dare Gloria Steinem and Elanore Smeal]2 liars.As far as problems in pregnancy-Well it happens.Things happen in life every day but it never gives us the right to kill anyone.That’s just the way I feel.
How is having sex with ANYONE disrespectful to myself if I willingly choose to? Babies aren’t the reason the sex is occurring. If pregnancy accidentally happens, it is my choice whether or not I’m ready to become a mother. That’s the beauty of pro-choice. I can willingly sacrifice my body for a child I CHOOSE to bring into the world. Sex isn’t beautiful just because babies can result. Babies aren’t always a blessing to a relationship. I can spread my damn legs to the man I love without wanting to bear a child. I want to love him, not any potential child such a union might or might not result in. A baby might not be the “worst thing that could happen”. But it still might not be welcome. Period.
Alyssa & Erika,
I’m not trying to impose a ‘strange – foreign’ thing here. We are by nature not independent but inter-dependent beings. I use the shoelace as only one analogy … but this extends in all kinds of directions: INTELLECTUAL – who taught you language, dance, art, … music, science, reasoning + + + who we are (and become) comes from other people … we can choose which ideas seem to suit, and we do the same for words themselves … do you know anyone who actually refuses (chooses not) to communicate????????????????
PHYSICAL – this is likely the easiest to refute. We somehow imagine that we are somewhat separate (independent beings) from our environment. Our bodies are a slew of chemicals … not put together by us, and reacting to stimuli most of it not-originating from us either. Do I own the air I breath, then maybe the sun I play under …. the whole concept of ownership and property are learned realities and have less credence than ‘equality'[from the 15th century – Descartes] One does not own their body; their spouse; their children … in any form. Maybe reflect on how porous you body actually is … then perhaps these firm concepts of ‘independence’ will disappear like a storm cloud. My logic is sound (and you know it). Your quest for uniqueness is not found in ‘independence’ … that’s illusive.
So a casual romp in the hay is okay? However you respect your body sooooo much. I’ll bet it’s a classic case of “Why buy the Cow when the milk is free” Such respect for that body of yours. Odd you never mentioned a husband. Well,now I get it.
Mom- Why is that casual romp in the hay indicative of disrespect for one’s body? I’d really like to hear this. Because it seems like you’re assuming that chastity and purity are indicative of respect for one’s body. But chastity and purity became “virtues” because men had to ensure that their bloodline was being passed on, that their heirs were really theirs.
So what is the real reason for claiming that an act of consensual protected casual sex is disrespectful of one’s body.
I’m in with Myra. No awards for the abortionists in my life. Don’t know their names, they didn’t bother to tell me. Don’t know their faces, they showed up only for the actual taking of my child’s life.
They didn’t come back to check on me in recovery even though there were complications and one even thought he left a “piece” (suddenly a piece and not a “blob”) and I had to go back in.
I could have gone toxic and died from that and they showed no urgency at all. In fact, I didn’t see him when I went back. He wasn’t there to check on me or explain anything to me.
No awards for those guys from me. Nope.
My best friend could no longer have children bc her abortionist damaged her uterus so badly. Hmm, no awards for him, either…
Certainly no awards for the abortionists whose patients have died as a result of bothced abortions. And there are MANY. Get the book, “LIME 5.”
And the list goes on and on…
This is important – these men and women need prayer. They need Jesus Christ. They are going to need His mercy and forgiveness. We all need it.
Caron,I’m sorry for you as well.I will say this. To anyone that wants an abortion,there is not much that anyone can say or do to stop you.It’s there so that you may live as you wish.However,I’m not going to ever have any respect for these men or women that choose to kill unborn babies for a living.
@Caron: There’s stages of progression for TSS, why cause undue stress at something that’s not a concern in the immediate future? There’s a problem, they’re fixing it, and if they’re freaking out about a 0.01% possibility, it’d just stress you out over something that’s almost certainly nothing.
Any one of us could have a brain aneurysm, get hit by a bus, choke on a chicken bone, and die tomorrow, but if I spent all my time worrying about that I’d never leave the house–and I’d still be at risk from the chicken bone.
PS, several people have asked the difference between a fetus and a baby. It’s birth.
@Mom: Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy (but if pregnancy is all you’re concerned about, then you’re giving equal permission for same-sex couples to hump like rabbits), and likewise, a baby is not a punishment for sinful couples. You seem to be coming off more anti-sex than pro-life, hun.
Babies are cool, but it’d be irresponsible of me to try to take on such an immense task with no planning, so I would (if I had a uterus) prevent this with birth control and, as a last resort, abortion. If you’ve got a way to get that z/e/f out without killing it, I’m open to suggestions, but right now it’s all we have.
Side note, granted there’s a couple dumbasses who profoundly mess up, but that’s bound to happen in any field. A handful of people have gone in to get their wisdom teeth pulled, weren’t properly monitored and drowned on their own saliva–but nobody’s calling for the ban of dentistry, why not?
I’d wager that, proportionally, there are more pedophile priests than incompetent abortion clinicians anyway. What’s your point?
So Zurg,you aren’t denying that abortion is killing a baby.I’m sure you’re in heaven knowing that any “piece” that comes your way could be persuaded into the abortion clinic if you failed to pull out in time.I really do understand why some men love abortion.Real men a repulsed by it.As you stated earlier,that’s your back up last resort.
Pulling out is ineffective, sperm is also present in precum which can result in pregnancy without an ejaculation. I always use condoms. Properly.
I don’t “love” abortion, but I think nobody should be forced to bear a pregnancy that they’re not ready to handle. I’d rather prevent the entire issue to begin with via birth control, though.
You people act like when things go wrong in an abortion procedure it just proves how abortion is evil. Well what about other types of surgery that go wrong? You can’t take one example and apply to an entire field.
My sister became extremely sick and was in the hospital for three weeks because of an horrible reaction to a type of medicine the doctor put her on, does that mean that doctor should no longer be able to practice? Of course not. Doctors are humans too. They do make mistakes.
In any surgery performed there are numerous things that can go wrong and doctors work their hardest to prevent this from happening.
George Tiller has my respect, for two reasons:
1. He’s very good at his job. If you need a late-term abortion, your reproductive organs are safe in Tiller’s hands.
2. He has been shot by a right-to-life terrorist. Anyone dedicated enough to remain in business after being twice shot by a right-to-life terrorist deserves respect, even from his enemies.
It is noteworthy that although right-to-life terrorists shoot doctors every few years, no one has ever shot a right-to-lifer just for being a right-to-lifer. Will the violence remain one-sided, or will 2007 be the year the pro-choice movement runs out of patience and begins shooting back?
I know from experiencing the ‘poor-choice’ of abortion myself, that regardless of situation-circumstances, when women and men terminate a pregnancy, they become responsible for the death of their child…
Nothing wounds women and men like taking the life of your own child –
One day comes the realization –
“Oh God, I’ve murdered!”
There is no other, Who can forgive and heal –
“Before I formed You in your mother’s womb, I Knew you…you were in My Care before you were born…I have Loved You with an Everlasting Love; therefore, with Loving Kindness have I drawn you to Myself…Come unto Me, all you who are weary and heavy laden…as many as receive Me, JESUS, I give the power to become children of God…anyone who hears My Words and believes in Him, Who sent Me, shall not come into condemnation but has already passed from death to Life!…the wages of sin is death but the free-Gift of God is Eternal Life (now and forever) through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Is Jesus – my Lord, master, Savior?
He wants to be…ask Him to be…
be Forgiven and set Free
Are you serious? He killed Christen Gilbert!!What is wrong with you people? How about Kelly? She went on TV to expose this idiot.So now what is she some paid actress or something? If anyone gave a sh** on this board you would be supporting people like Kelly.
It’s not a child, yet. Please use proper terminology.
Deuteronomy 27:25-Cursed is the man who accepts a bribe to kill an innocent person. That one is for the abortionists. Oh yes it is a person.
Myra,I’m so glad you’ve turned away from supporting abortion.Every woman knows that the very core of her being is her womb.To have a child ripped from your womb is not natural or normal.The wrongs of abortion are all in the bible.Anyone who refuses to believe it is walking in their own selfish ways and beliefs.
Exd 21:22
And what do we call inducing a miscarriage, class? Abortion.
PS I have never seen anyone holding up a sign that said:KEEP KNEE SURGERY SAFE AND LEGAL If abortion wasn’t such a disgusting practice why would a sign be needed? Also it is not safe-just legal.
Hey,Danielle abortion is and always will be an evil procedure.It is an elective procedure and it is a woman contracting with a doctor to kill her baby.The term baby killer has been around for a long time.I don’t apologize for using it.I never did and I never will.Once a woman aborts she is a baby killer.Why should this upset them?They KNOW what they are. Even if people don’t say it to their faces,it is said in hushed whispers.People know what abortion is.This is 2007.
So by your reasoning, all abortions are performed by non-sterile institutions by quacks who know nothing? Yeah, ok. Considering a good friend of mine had one (I supported her wholeheartedly, even bought the pregnancy test and found numbers for her to call), she’s completely healthy and perfectly able to bear children in the future under her own terms. You think I’d protect a fetus’s rights over my own friend’s? You have GOT to be kidding me. She deserved to be able to go to school and make a career and live her life the way she wanted. A kid was not part of that equation, and she DOESN’T have to sacrifice any of her body, even her WOMB, for it. I wouldn’t expect her to sacrifice her body for ME if I needed it to survive. I respect her bodily integrity and rights over my own needs to survive. If she decided to allow me to use her kidney, that’s her choice. CHOICE!!!
Besides, being awake during knee surgery lets you know it’s definitely disgusting to watch. Any invasive surgical procedure is. Duh. Nutjob. It doesn’t matter if it’s on your womb or your knee.
You think knee surgery is puppies and licorice or something? It’s because of the emotional attachment some people bestow upon themselves.
A properly performed abortion is safer than a routine pregnancy.
So Myra J. is a babykiller, too?
One patient death in your clinic does not mean your practice is unsafe. Not for someone in a surgical speciality like Dr. Tiller’s.
Tiller knows more about how to protect his patients during late-term abortions than anyone.
I have not seen Kelly’s testimony because I use an antique computer that doesn’t show video. Does anyone know where I can get a transcript?
OK, I found a transcript on fOX web site. Sounds like Kelly didn’t enjoy her abortion experience. But there’s no reason to fault Tiller or any of the nurses in what she said. Most surgeons are impersonal with their patients. It’s because they are very busy.
The point about Tiller is, if you’re a doctor and you have a patient who needs a late-term abortion, for whatever reason, Tiller is one of the safest people you can send her to. Whatever happens during or after the surgery, he’s seen it before. He knows how to kill the fetus without killing the patient, and how to get the dead fetus (all of it) out of the uterus with a minimum amount of stress on the patient’s cervix and vagina.
Quote Alyssa:
However, I fail to see how a uterus is NOT property of the woman in which it “resides”. Do you have the right to use any part of my body for your personal survival if I do not allow it? No. Why? Because any part of my body is my property, and property is an unalienable right. My uterus is an organ that belongs to me, my body, and I have the right to determine what does and does not use it to survive.
End Quote
Wow, Where do you live? Where I am, property is subject to government siezure and control all the time. They take a little of it every time I get some. And then they take some in sales tax when I use what’s left to buy something. If I don’t fork over a few thousand every year they come and take my house. If they decide that my neighborhood is historic they tell me what color I can paint my house and if I can have shutters or not. And if they decide they want to put a freeway or a library here, they can take my house and decide what to give me for it.
And, there are people surviving every day, without any approval from me, because the government takes part of the fruit of my labor, the result my physical exertion, and uses it for their benefit.
Worse, this extends to my actual person as well. Here, where I live, I can’t put heroin into my body; and get this: in time of war, I can be taken from my home, put into field pack and helmet and made to march double-time into the sound of the guns.
Oddly enough, I’m OK with all this.
You might want to be careful using “unalienable” you are treading close to a place where there are moral absolutes. The Founding Fathers (who used “inalienable” by the way) linked these rights, in which they did not include property, closely to the phrase “Imbued by their Creator.”
If there are absolute values, and I believe there are, one of the highest has to be the value of Human Life. Whether fetus or baby, it is biologically Human and it is definitely life. Deliberately killing it (and that’s what we’re talking about) is wrong. If it dies as result of some medical intervention to save the mother, that is tragic, but not necessarily wrong.
Conception must be regarded as a possible outcome of intercourse, and those that engage in it should be aware of this.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
God Bless You
Phil
The difference between heroin and a fetus is that putting heroin INTO my body may cause it harm, and a fetus already IN my body my cause it harm. Taking it out of my body, my womb, is a conscious decision to protect myself and my property (you failed to see that I consider my BODY the only TRUE thing I own, money and other goods may be taken from me…they mean less than my only REAL possession). Abortions have always been proven statistically safer for women than full-term pregnancy and labor. I dare you to dispute that fact. Even so, any biological freeloader, whether it be adult, child, or fetus, has no right to live off of my BODY, and cause me pain or suffering, no matter if I had ALL-EVIL INTERCOURSE that may have caused it to be there. Eating pork may cause tapeworm eggs to be transported to my digestive system and I might contract tapeworm. It was my choice to eat the pork. But it’s also my choice to preserve my bodily integrity. My body, my property. I don’t care what you think, my body will NEVER be YOUR jurisdiction.
“The term baby killer has been around for a long time.I don’t apologize for using it.”
I’m a baby killer, then. I have never regretted my decision. I didn’t want to be put in that position, but I made a hard choice and never looked back.
As a decent band once said, “God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes, ’cause then you really might know what it’s like to have to choose.”
Except it was “her shoes.”
Dang. Self-pwn.
But it’s also my choice to preserve my bodily integrity. My body, my property. I don’t care what you think, my body will NEVER be YOUR jurisdiction.
Something you might want to remember this Easter Season…
“THIS IS MY BODY”
Did you ever realize that the same four words that were used by the Lord Jesus to save the world are also used by some to promote abortion? “This is my body.” The same simple words are spoken from opposite ends of the universe, with meanings that are directly contrary to each other.
Scripture tells us that on the night before He died to save all people, the Lord Jesus took bread, blessed it, broke it, and gave it to His disciples, saying, “This is My Body, which is given up for you.” He was pointing to what would happen the next day, when He would give that same Body on the cross. He sacrifices Himself so that we may live. He gives up His Body so that He can destroy the power of sin and death. As a result, He welcomes us into His life, into His Kingdom. He makes us members of His Body!
On the other hand, abortion supporters say, “This is my body. So don’t interfere with it! It’s mine, so I can do what I want, even to the point of killing the life within it. All is secondary to my dominion over my body.” In fact one abortion supporter has written, “I say their (pro-lifers’) God is worth nothing compared to my body” (Michelle Goldberg, “Rant for Choice,” in University of Buffalo student newspaper, 1995).
“This is my body.” Same words, different results. Christ gives His body away so others might live; abortion supporters cling to their own bodies so others might die. In giving His Body, Christ teaches the meaning of love: I sacrifice myself for the good of the other person. Abortion teaches the opposite of love: I sacrifice the other person for the good of myself!
http://www.priestsforlife.org/brochures/thisismy.html
Mike
Jesus made his choice, women can make their own.
By the way, religious arguments hold no wait. Religion is fine for a personal code of morality, but enforcing it on all people is the height of arrogance.
Don’t throw out the religious card.
Eesh, I can’t type tonight.
I have some questions for those who are Pro-Abortion on here…..
———
Are there any circumstances in which you would be against killing the baby in the womb? If so, what are they?
and what
I still have a few more questions to ask because I really want to try to understand your viewpoint on abortion. Here they are…
————
Why is it that the very people who say the governments should stay out of abortion are the same ones who want the government to pay for them?
Abortion advocates say they are in the business to help women. Other than offering to kill their children for them, what are they doing?
Pro-abortionists say that the unborn child is part of the mother
Not my jurisdiction.
I’m just pointing out that the government has, via military draft, shown that it is willing to take people (and their bodies) and force them to do things and that this is considered legally valid.
I’ve said nothing about the relative risks to the mother, and I have certainly never said intercourse is evil. in fact it is wonderful, but it is also a fact that it can lead to conception.
and last…
——-
Why is it Jane Roe of Roe v. Wade, millions of post abortive women from Silent No More, Dr. Bernard Nathanson who was one of the founders of the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL) and many abortionists who were all once Pro-Abortion are now Pro-Life? Why is this?
The growing trend in America is many are becoming more and more Pro-Life especially our younger generation. The main group of people who want to keep abortion as a “choice” are those who lived during the Woodstock area. This group is aging and will soon be a dying breed. Therefore America will most likely become more and more Pro-Life and Roe v. Wade will soon be overturned.
My question to you is this — Right now people are split roughly 50/50 on whether abortion should be legal or not in America. Since America is split right now whether or not “life exists” in the woman’s womb, shouldn’t the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT always go to the SIDE OF LIFE? Why or why not?
Have you watched the video
“Are there any circumstances in which you would be against killing the baby in the womb? If so, what are they?”
—If the mother does not consent to it. Otherwise, she can control what happens inside her uterus. After 23 weeks or so, abortions should be performed at the discretion of and in consultation with a physician.
“and what