A husband and father’s most awful choice
This dramatic blog post by a 30-something man is worth reading all the way through. But here is the long story short:
While I’ve always been pro-choice (as far as I can remember), I was never particularly concerned with it as my primary issue…. Then I had to wrestle with this issue in my own life. My wife was pregnant….
Things were fine, until about six weeks in. Then she started to have some bleeding…. [W]e find out that no, the baby is fine. We even get an ultrasound, far earlier than you usually get one. There we can see this tiny creature with a tiny heartbeat. Unfortunately, the bleeding just continued, nonstop….
And so we discussed possibly terminating the pregnancy, because it was very alarming for my wife, and also we didn’t want to take this further only to find out it wasn’t viable. Thankfully, we had such an option….
Another week passes, they do another ultrasound. Things look great. I’m amazed at how much the little bugger has grown just in a few weeks, more than doubling in size. We’re getting close to 10 weeks….
We were watching TV on the bed at home… Then she started bleeding more. She panicked. She took off to the ER without even waiting for me to get dressed to go with her…. Her blood pressure is steadily dropping…. So we go for another ultrasound in the ER…. And yet, again, the little bugger is holding on and actually is fine even as its mother is bleeding out….
Now the blood pressure numbers are even lower… 60/40…. My wife is still awake, but a bit out of it from the drugs. They start pumping a transfusion into her….
Nothing is stopping the bleeding…. So that leaves only surgery as a possibility. Surgery means hosing her out. It means killing the baby…. [T]he doctor said she is no longer able to legally consent. Now I’m handed a clipboard. On it is consent to basically give my wife an abortion and kill our future child. And it is all on me, my decision, mine alone…. Made worse by being a decision of either kill the baby or potentially watch both my wife and the baby die….
So then there I was, facing the sort of choice that you usually see only in hypotheticals in ethics and philosophy classes. Only it was real. It was my wife. And I didn’t have exactly a lot of time to think about it. It was just me and the clipboard. An empty line there, marked for my signature. My wife bleeding right next to me. The ultrasound of my baby, and its heartbeat, fresh in my mind from minutes before. I cannot begin to describe how I felt at that moment….
[T]hey took her up for what they said would be a 20 minute surgery. Even more ironically, they took us up to one of the pre-delivery rooms to prep her for the surgery. It turned out to be the very same room we were in before our first (and thus far only) child was born. Oh how the feelings were different this time around…
I sat there, wondering if I’d at least get my wife back after this. Then 20 minutes passed, and nothing. Thirty minutes. Forty. Forty five. I started to get worried and thought all sorts of horrible things that I will not put words to. Mainly, then, I start to think about the abortion debate. About pro-lifers, in particular. I think about all those meddling politicians that would want to interject themselves into everything that just happened to me, interject themselves between me, my wife, and her doctors. And then I had a strong, visceral reaction. I wanted the [expletive] to die. I wanted to rip off their heads and tear out their hearts, because how DARE they play politics with my wife’s life? The baby was fine until the end. I wondered if that would have meant they’d force us to let my wife bleed until almost death before they’d let us abort, because well, if she’s not near death, then it is just a ‘health’ exception, and we can’t have that! F-them. F-them all. They can f-ing die, as far as I’m concerned. This was what went through my mind as I sat there, waiting to see if, after my baby died, my wife had died as well. I still feel that visceral reaction when I think about it, though not quite as strong – right then and there, if someone pro-life walked in and started talking about it to me, I very well might have physically attacked them….
Finally, the doctors come out and tell me she’s fine and headed to recovery….
Obviously, I’m still pro-choice. And I do still say that I’ll personally never have an abortion. But if anyone tells me politicians should meddle in what should be between one’s doctor and one’s self, I’ll tell them, politely, to go f-themselves, and then explain why.
What a story. I feel badly for this guy. I want to set one thing straight, however, which he should know because he says he’s an attorney. Abortion has never been illegal to save the life of a mother. and it never will be. The incident he described sounds like one of those scenarios.
[Hat tip: JivinJehoshaphat]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Yes, I am aware of the current legalities. But it should be noted that I never said otherwise. But where in at least one state they’ve already eliminated a health exception, one wonders where, exactly, do you draw the line? In my case, with the benefit of hindsight, one could have perhaps aborted the pregnancy a week before I did in this case, before things had progressed so close to the line, and it could still have been about saving my wife’s life. How close to death do you have to get before the doctors can act? In my case, I don’t think my wife was ever within minutes of dying. Maybe they could have kept on transfusing her. Maybe they could have done that for months, until viability. I don’t know. That’s what my point was – where do you draw the line? And what if the line is drawn so close to death that you need to risk death before you are allowed to have an abortion? I’d rather that be a discussion between me, my wife, and her doctors, not something decided by politicians looking for votes or from people who follow a religion I do not.
DBB, I’m sorry for the loss of your baby. And I’m glad your wife is okay.
DBB, I’m so very sorry for the loss of your baby and for the heartbreaking decision you had to make. You’re right, this sort of decision is usually reserved for “what ifs” in ethics classes.
Where do you draw the line? When, in medical opinion, a choice has to be made to save one life or both lives will be lost.
DBB, I think you will always wonder about the various scenarios. I think that’s what you have been and are grappling with, attempting to come to terms with, even perhaps feeling guilty about.
I would just say that to lash out at pro-lifers is misplaced. Of anyone, we understand most how special your baby was to you, even, as you say, s/he didn’t hold quite the place in your heart your older child does. We understand how painful your loss must be. I respect you very much for obviously feeling this loss deeply.
I think the saddest thing about this post is the “hatred” that breeds in your heart.
No one on this site, NO ONE, not pro-life or pro- choice would have told you to sacrifice your wife’s life.
I just find it sad that some of us know that, without a reason like yours, abortion kills a million and a half babies a year. Most of them senselessly. Your case was an exception, not the rule.
The final decision in a case like yours, if abortion was illegal, would have come down to a private decision between you, your wife and your doctor.
No one wants to take that away from you.
Unfortunately you are left with a bitter anger towards those of us who would fight for your babies life, as well as all the other little ones that will die today.
We would also fight for your wifes life.
So I’m sorry that you hate us. Hate is such a waste. It takes up so much energy. Better that you hug your wife, and look forward to a time where this wound begins to heal.
And hug your little girl. She is a blessing indeed.
mk
Oh come on Jill, the pro-choice vote in Mexico City is today’s big abortion story. Why haven’t you blogged about it?
This story is absolutely heartwrenching. I’m so sorry.
Also…
“Hate is such a waste. It takes up so much energy.”
MK, this might be the first thing I’ve agreed with you on (that I can recall right now, that is). Hatred is a waste of energy and it just eats away at a person.
Thank you for the sentiments. I can say right now, I feel no hate over this. Not even when I wrote the post. I was remembering my feelings at the time and transcribing them. And it was never hate, even then, just anger. I was, obviously, quite emotional at the time.
I can understand and appreciate the pro-life position. I myself would never ever condone terminating a pregnancy unless it was absolutely necessary. I certainly don’t condone it for birth control. In essence, I am pro-life. Except for one small detail – I would never force my sentiments on the matter onto someone else. I would not make it a criminal matter. I think it is a personal matter for a family and its doctors to deal with, and no one else.
DBB,
First of all my deepest sympathies to you and your wife. I’m very thankful she has had a full recovery.
Bleeding in early pregnancy is not all that uncommon. If the ultrasounds were normal and your wife was otherwise doing fine, it wouldn’t be unusual for the doctor to hold off doing anything at all. Its entirely possible your wife would have stabilized and gone to term. I know this DBB because I went through the same thing with my third pregnancy. I bled continuously through to 5 months, even had episodes of severe bleeding, yet I have a beautiful 20 year old daughter resulting from that pregnancy. Yes it was stressful, I worried about her viability and health, what mother wouldn’t? But the doctors held out because she was alive and my condition was stable and I’m thankful they did. We were certainly taking risks with my safety, but you do the same thing every time you drive a car. In fact, we see women all the time who are bleeding, they are just closely monitored as it seems your wife was. Some experience miscarriage, others like me go to term. Thankfully, emergencies like your wife are rare, but I have seen them.
You wife experienced an obstetrical emergency. This can happen at 6 weeks or 6 months. It can happen full term. I was involved in a Cesarean section on a full term woman still in her street clothes because her umbilical cord prolapsed.
We are all blessed with hindsight. Sure, if your wife had aborted a week earlier she could have avoided this horrific situation. If the woman I mentioned with the umbilical cord pro-lapse had had a C-section a week earlier, she could have avoided the near death of her child. If a woman hadn’t ignored her abdominal pain a week earlier, she would not be losing a Fallopian tube because of a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. Life is a thousand “ifs” a day.
Again, my deepest sympathy and best wishes to you and your wife.
DBB –
I am very sorry for your loss. You and your wife are very brave people. To be honest, I admire you for making the decision you did. Your wife means alot to you and you showed her that by taking all the responsibility for this decision. Something some men would not be able to admit. You were faced with one of the hardest decisions to make in one’s lifetime. And then to be able to talk about in the hopes of helping others is to be admired.
Your wife and daughter are very lucky to have you.
DBB–
I, along with many other pro-choicers, I am sure, appreciate immensely your sentiments. THANK YOU for not wanting to force your beliefs onto others, even if you don’t agree with what they do. I myself wonder if I would be able to stomach an abortion if I ever needed one. But I would never say to someone “Well, I don’t think it’s right, so you can’t do it either.”
I am so sorry for your loss, and I am grateful that your wife is okay. Thank you for giving your energy to the pro-choice movement, even if you disagree with abortions!
God bless.
Leah
Dear DBB, I am also very sorry for your loss. The health of your wife was clearly not someting within your control. Please note that this is much different than an elective abortion.
Heather,
MK, this might be the first thing I’ve agreed with you on (that I can recall right now, that is).
Give it time Heather. Before you know it,you too will be in the breakfast club…:)
MK
DBB,
I would like to add that if your wife’s doctor truly felt her safety was in any way jeopardized, he/she would have had every legal right to do whatever was necessary to protect her, including abortion. The doctor could also have had your wife hospitalized for observation if he/she had any concern for her safety.
From what I can gather from your article, the doctor was being very concientious, had every reason to think your wife’s condition was stable and that her pregnancy was progressing normally. The tragedy that befell your wife could no more be predicted than can an umbilical cord prolapse or a placental abruption.
Ya Heather c’mon over. We don’t bite. Always room for more than 1 Heather in the breakfast club
DBB,
I am truly sorry for your loss. May you and your family find healing. My mother’s best friend had to deal with a situation like this. It was heartwrenching, and today she is no longer even able to conceive. I pray that your wife will be able to have future healthy pregnancies, and I wish you the best of everything. You are an immensely strong person to have had to make such an awful decision. I agree with Valerie…your wife and daughter are so lucky to have you as a husband and father.
Now Heather4Life, would it be TERRIBLE to have a nasty choicer like me at the breakfast table? :P
No Alyssa.You can come too.
“Give it time Heather. Before you know it,you too will be in the breakfast club”
While I may in the future change my views, they’ve been pretty consistent for nearly a decade now. Unless something drastic happens, I don’t see them changing, not soon anyway.
So for now, a truce?
By the way, The Breakfast Club is one of my favorite movies.
I do have a request to make, though (this isn’t directed toward anyone specific, btw).
I understand that your faith is important to you and I understand that at least most of you have good intentions when you post scripture. I have no problem with you using it to back up your opinions on certain matters as I know it has a great deal to do with how you feel. However, I would appreciate it if (at least when talking to me) it was not used to bash my personal beliefs and such. If you’re going to use it, don’t be confrontational or condescedning.
And another thing. Please, no blanket statements regarding women who have had abortions. Generalizing in any instance is not a good thing, but this is something specific that gets under my skin. My mother has had an abortion and as irrational as it may seem, it can feel like a direct attack on my mother, you know?
I respect that you all feel so strongly about such an important issue, but there really is no need to be consdescending or insulting. I realize that there are times I have probably come across in such a manner, and there really is no excuse for that. I apologize.
Anyway. Yeah.
Ditto Heather,
I know that that antisocial thing go out of hand, but I promise I was not talking about your mom.
I wasn’t even talking about persons. I was talking about the act itself.
If you have read our posts from the beginning you know that our sympathies lie with the mothers as well as the babies.
Neither you nor Alyssa, that I can remember, have ever been overtly rude or antagonistic.
I was really referring to the people on these posts that believe the babies are fully human, and complete persons, but don’t have the same rights that they have. That’s what I consider antisocial. Behavior. Not people. Although I do believe that SOMG is a certified sociopath.
Of course you and Alyssa can come to breakfast.
This is kind of an inside joke between Sam and I (and the rest of the pro-lifers on this site) that runs back to the beginning of March.
Leah was invited too.
You gotta remember, that new people come on here, all nasty and provocative and we get all worked up and it gets hard to remember who is actually civilized.
The Camerons and Jess’s and Midnites are a tough crowd and can set the tone for the evening. Unfortunately it spills over onto you guys.
So yeah, Truce, Peace and Breakfast. It’s on me.
mk
I’m glad that you and I, at least, have come to an understanding. Hopefully I will be able to expect that from the rest of the posters.
And really, Cameron, Jess, and Midnite aren’t so bad. Cameron I’ve not talked to much, but Jess and Midnite are good people.
Heather B,
I’m not questioning whether they are good people. But they do tend to provoke and push buttons. Which gets everyone heated up.
None of you guys (with the possible exception of SOMG) are truly evil.
And most girls come one here in the beginning looking for a fight, but chill out after awhile.
You’ve seen it happen. It’s just the ironing out period that can be a little rough.
It must be disconcerting to come onto a pro life site and facing the “enemy” without knowing what the “enemy” is armed with.
I give them credit. Time will fix it all. You’ll see. And so will I.
mk
DBB:
“where do you draw the line?”
There’s a HUGE history in legal theory and case law for this kind of thing. You’re talking — here, and in your blog — as if this is all in a vacuum. I think that comes from imagining that legal proscription of abortion would be some dramatically new thing. It wouldn’t be. I think such concern comes from imagining that existential issues one personally feels are unique and unprecedented. They’re not.
Heroic endangerment of one’s own life cannot be compelled. Period. That resounds throughout the history of law. Nothing could be more true about your question, than that asking it reflects a lack of acquaintance with how settled this is in law.
Be comforted by the fact that women in your wife’s position face no peril at all on account of pro-life advocacy. And please be wise to the fact that pro-choice advocates only stand to gain by exaggerating and misrepresenting the potential for such perils. Obviously, pro-life people’s only point is that the peril that’s not in question at all is to the unborn in the vast majority of cases where a mother’s life is not endangered.
One last point: I gather you’re an atheist. Perhaps you’d find it amusing that as a traducianist of the theist camp, my view on the origin of individual human lives is probably almost identical to your own. I’m a rarity in the pro-life camp in that regard, but I’ve often found it striking that for me the ground is level for conversation with pro-choice advocates in at least that one respect.
“But they do tend to provoke and push buttons. Which gets everyone heated up”
People on both sides do. It’s difficult not to retaliate in a similar manner to someone who attacks you and your beliefs.
Honestly, people get nowhere that way. I find people are easier to converse with (as far as exchanging ideas and viewpoints) if both parties are civil and respectful toward one another.
To the Breakfast Club –
We need to make some sort of pledge or something. Once you have become civil with everyone, then you can come to breakfast. Just know that I will be late as my family, including my 1 year old, doesn’t believe in getting out of bed until 8:30AM at the earliest.
It doesn’t matter if you are pro-life, pro-choice, athiest, or religious. All are welcome as long as all are civil. That is until breakfast is over, then I’m not going to guarentee any civility. But I’ll guarentee to misspell most of my words in my posts….
;-)
Wow Jill!
I actually like this cut-n-paste. It’s kind of brave of you to do this too.
Kudoos!
However… a minority within the prolife camp doesn’t want any sort of exception for the health of the mother, probably for the exact same reason DBB pointed out… “Where do we draw the line.” In other words, they likely fear that all one needs is a doctor willing to say your health is at risk whether or not it is genuinely at risk.
Best,
Cameron
“The Camerons and Jess’s and Midnites are a tough crowd and can set the tone for the evening. Unfortunately it spills over onto you guys.”
Translation: they were meanies so we can’t avoid/control being mean to others. i.e. two wrongs make a right.
“And really, Cameron, Jess, and Midnite aren’t so bad. Cameron I’ve not talked to much, but Jess and Midnite are good people.”
Awww… Thanks heather.
Like all the others here – you did very well, DBB … such decisions are horrendous – between a rock and a hard-place.
however about society’s involvement …. it too is tough! The way I justify this is via a wee (poem) penned by a Lutheran minister in Germany after WW II had ended.
It went something like:
‘First they came for Jews, but because I was not a Jew, I said nothing!
Secondly, they came for the gypsies, but since I was not a gypsy, I said nothing!
Next it was Catholics ….
Then they came for ME. I looked around and there was none left to assist ME …
’nuff said … I will tackle anyone at all attempting to derail a moving locomotive (really happened … a friend’s grandpa was drunk and figured he could derail a locomotive. He lost!)
If this body autonomy kick goes into legal force, then anyone – like firemen, police, etc – would require signed consent before they could intervene or face getting sued … as a lawyer, is such correct?
Cameron,
Please keep in mind it makes no difference what a minority in the pro-life camp wants, when a pregnant woman’s health or life is in any jeopardy at all her doctor has every legal right to do whatever is necessary to protect her.
As I stated above, DBB’s wife suffered an obstetrical emergency, which can occur at any time in pregnancy, and totally unexpectedly.
Prior to the emergency situation, if the doctor of DBB’s wife had determined that indeed her health or life were truly jeopardized then the doctor could have taken any measures necessary, and yes that includes abortion, to protect her. From DBB’s post, it seems his wife’s doctor was very concientious and carefully monitoring her and did not see her as being in jeopardy. Tragically, an emergency did occur. There is no way this could have been predicted.
“Please keep in mind it makes no difference what a minority in the pro-life camp wants, when a pregnant woman’s health or life is in any jeopardy at all her doctor has every legal right to do whatever is necessary to protect her.”
I think all of us have different ideas about “health.” For example, most here have already gone on the record opposed to someone aborting their baby in order to avoid going blind.
Would you like others deciding for you if you should go blind or not???
What if it meant never bearing any additional children, and you wanted a few more??? Would you want other people deciding for you that you can’t have anymore if it means this first one must die??
What if it meant that you would spend the rest of your life crapping in a bag strapped to your side? In a wheel chair? Or even just having to undergo numerous surgeries to repair damages??
To some extent this what the privacy concern in Roe v. Wade is all about. We can’t supoena someone’s medical records and decide that there was indeed no serious risk to the woman, or if there was a risk, the decissions regarding the response to that risk belong to the person at risk, and nobody else.
“If this body autonomy kick goes into legal force, then anyone – like firemen, police, etc – would require signed consent before they could intervene or face getting sued … as a lawyer, is such correct?”
This body-autonomy thing is a universally recognized human right, and by all acounts is and has been a legal force for some time. An EMT can do whatever needs to be done so long as he informs the patient what he/she is doing and the patient does not tell him otherwise, and the EMT is removed from consent issue if the patient is not capable of telling him otherwise, or if the patient is on drugs, has a psychiatric/behavioral disorder, has been abused by another person (e.g. rape victim not wanting to be touched), and if they are unable to move.
Valerie,
HOW AM I GOING TO PAY FOR THIS BREAKFAST???????
It’s okay, I’ve got the want ads right here.
And we can make it brunch. Then you don’t have to worry about the rugrats sleeping late.
mk
Cameron,
How many ways must I say this? If a woman’s health or life are in serious jeopardy her physician can legally take whatever measures are necessary to protect her life. It doesn’t matter how any of us define health. A woman who is truly determined to be in any jeopardy has every legal right to get the help she needs and always has. Roe v Wade didn’t mean squat concering protecting a woman’s health or life.
About the blindness, look more closely into that story. What exactly was her problem? Could it have been treated with better medical care? I personally have never heard of any such situation here in the U.S. as I’m sure medical care would be available to treat the problem. You have to be very careful of taking accounts like these at face value. There’s always a story behind the story, as I have seen time and again.
Thankfully in this day and age we are better able to protect a mother’s health and conditions such as heart disease and diabetes can now be better monitored and treated, and mothers safely carried to term.
Spending the rest of my life “crapping in a bag strapped to my side”, or in a wheelchair, or undergoing numerous surgeries. That sure sounds like what could be the fate of that poor woman in New Jersey who was severely injured and suffered neurological damage from blood loss as a result of her “safe, legal” abortion at a New Jersey clinic. You know, the one where rusty crochet hooks were found.
Where is everyone from actually? Just curious.
“Where is everyone from actually? Just curious.”
Originally southern California. I’ve lived in Tennessee for about eight years now, though.
PiP: Born in Wisconsin, raised in Wisconsin, Minnesota, New York and South Dakota…but am currently a resident of Minnesota. :)
Pennsylvania born and raised. :D
PIP –
Born in Ohio, raised in Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois back to Ohio, then back to Indiana. I am currently near Indianapolis, In.
hey Rae – Where in Minnesota? I lived in Shakopee from 1972-1977. We had a chicken stand at the Renaissance. It was fun! I loved it there but have never made it back to live, but I’m still trying!
Do you know if Valley Fair is still there?
Valerie!! My brother goes to Butler U, he is majoring in Ballet!
Valerie: I live in Mahtomedi, MN (well technically Minneapolis as I’m at college) and I also lived in Cottage Grove. Valley Fair is still there and goin’ strong! I love going there in the summer, it’s one of my happy places (along with the MoA…) The Renaissance Fair is also still here and it’s amazing as always. I can’t wait to go this year (I got sick last year when I went…it was sad).
But Jiminy Crickets…you’ve moved almost as much as I have! My parents have moved nearly 15 times in their 25 year marriage and I’ve moved 7. *shakes fist at 3M*. I’m willing to guess that you were a military or 3M kid? :-p
It just seems to me upon reading this article, that the lawyer who wrote it wanted to convey a supreme sense of urgency which pushed him into making the decision to have the baby aborted.
I’m not a doctor, and I wasn’t in that situation, but the thought came to me that there was a certain amount of manipulation going on. Maybe from the doctors who presented the situation to him as a dire urgency, perhaps a bit too dire, maybe from him when retelling the story to convince us things were as bad as they were. Then again, maybe they really were as bad as all that, and there was no opportunity to save the baby.
His wife’s reaction wasn’t exactly the most sensible either, he says she rushes off to the hospital without waiting for him to get dressed? How much did this contribute to the immediate emergency? Why didn’t he throw something on a little faster and take her? How much did the hot bath his sister suggested contribute to the problem?
That whole visceral reaction he had which was filled with so much anger directed at people who are pro life seemed odd as well. It just added to the sense of manipulation that was going on.
Maybe the anger was misdirected, he had seen ultrasounds of his son or daughter, he recognized the child as another human being, not really he refers to the child as a bugger. Rather than express grief over the loss of his child, he lashes out at some mythical pro lifer whom he imagines coming to talk to him at this most difficult moment in his life. Thus cementing his pro choice position, or at least rationalizing it in his own mind.
He also makes his argument that the unborn child is somehow less of a human being than a child who is born and 17 months old, and because of that he feels nothing for it.
What a hateful position! God knows us in the womb, he can count every hair on our head, he has given us everything we are, including a soul, present AT CONCEPTION and as present in the human being in the womb as it is in a newborn, as it is in a fully grown adult. We are not less worthy of being called Human just because we have not been born.
For sure we are not seeds just waiting to spring forth from the womb thus only then enabling sorry excuses for fathers such as this one with the opportunity to recognize the child’s legitimate humanity.
Does he actually expect the readers of his blog to think that a child is less human simply because he has had less opportunity to be loved by a parent?
It is sad the baby died, it is unfortunate the decision had to be made, it is difficult to understand all the parameters of the situation, but this man who proudly proclaims that he is an atheist and a libertarian has a monumental disregard for a human being, worse, a callous disregard for the child he has lost.
Manipulation and agenda come to mind. Misdirected anger comes to mind as well.
A little human being lost his or her life, a little soul will never live, love, laugh, cry, a mother and a father are feeling grief. A sad story, but not one that should convince a normal person of the righteousness of a position that denies other human beings the right to be born.
PIP –
Butler has a ballet major? Didn’t know that. Did you say where you were from, or did I miss that?
Rae –
My Dad was in the Marines but got out before I was born. ;-) However all the moving around was because my Dad worked for a company that puts administration in hospitals that are failing and need to be fixed immediately or close. So Dad was welcomed by most in the community and hated by some. The first thing he would have to do is fire a bunch of people, including doctors!
I haven’t been to Valley Fair since I was in high school when we went back to visit friends. That was the first time I ever went on a roller coster that went upside down. At the Renaissance my sisters and I would always get into trouble and end up in some sort of medevil ‘holding’ device. It was fun! My best memory is when my Dad called one of the guys in character a pansy because he was wearing tights (Dad was joking) and that guy challenged him to a duel. I was impressed that Dad actually lasted at least 2 minutes before being “killed” in the duel! It was so much fun.
Yes it does Valerie! Actually, Butler is one of the best schools to go if you want to be a ballet major and still get a college education. My brother also got accepted to Cornish, an arts college, but Butler also offers an education and college atmosphere that he enjoys. Their graduates go on to do a lot of stuff, and actually I at first never heard of it, but everytime I talk to a dancer, and mention my brother is at Butler, they always go “ooh, that’s a good school!!”
I grew up in Oklahoma but go to school here in St. Louis. I danced in high school myself, but I never wanted to pursue it professionally..
Here’s an article about the program
http://www.danceinsider.com/f2003/f0424_2.html
DBB’s post is political rant, not personal angst. Unlike some gushing posters, I do not admire this guy as a father, or person. Before I checked his blog description claiming he is an atheist, his rantings showed him as one who discounts God’s authority and love, who rejects any human intervention in community medical morals, and — most importantly–resents any claim about how he controls his “property”(both wife and unborn child). More than a little manipulation is at work in the childish description of his wife’s medical situation. The clearest reading of the blog described a hospital attempt to address a woman in hemorrhage. Lawyers are careful wordsmiths familiar with the medical terms miscarriage and hemorrhage, so his feigned struggle to apprehend his wife’s medical situation is not credible. It is more plausible that his polemic intentionally avoided the terms that most adults recognize as a medical situation not justifying vague health exceptions for late -term abortions.
Topekaprolife and Cathy, I think your analysis is probably very accurate.
PIP – That may explain why many years ago I saw Mikhail Baryshnikov perform there. It was awsome to see! If you ever come visit your Bro, you’ll have to let me know!
Rae – Within Tempation; the Silent Force – AWSOME!! In the first 30 seconds I knew I was going to love it! Right now Stand My Ground is my favorite, but I’m still listening. Thanks!
Valerie: I’m glad you like it! It really is a very good album. Let me know if you ever want more Within Temptation music and I can email the songs to you. :)
Cathy and Topekaprolife,
My take on this whole situation is that it was an obstetrical emergency, one I have seen a few times in my many years working in the medical area. You may want to refer to some of my above posts as I do not like to be repetitious.
Its entirely possible this woman experienced a sudden and spontaneous hemorrhage and that this was indeed a life threatening situation. From my own experience I can tell you that one better be prepared to act fast when one of these ladies shows up in the emergency room or surgical department. Her doctor and hospital staff reacted as they should have when her bleeding could not be stopped, get this woman into surgery immediately and perform an emergency D&C.
Concerning how DBB’s wife reacted when her bleeding began at home. Keep in mind that in an emergency situation, people do not always do what we would consider the most rational or sensible thing. People run into closets when a house is on fire. I’ve seen heart attack victims driven in by relatives when 911 should have been called. One lady we had to start resuscitating in her son’s car.
DBB’s wife may simply have panicked and reacted by getting to the hospital as quickly as possible and not bothering to wait for her husband. I most certainly do not fault her for this.
What I have a problem with is DBB’s rant. What exactly is the issue here? Yes, this was a very tragic situation and our hearts go out to him and his family. But what has this got to do with the abortion debate? His wife’s doctor never suggested an abortion. She apparently did not want one. Bleeding in early pregnancy is not uncommon and is for the most part non-life threatening, for the woman anyway. Her condition was being closely monitored and the pregnancy appeared to be progressing normally. An emergency situation occured, something that can happen at any point in pregnancy. It seems that DBB is speaking in hindsight, something we are all blessed with, that if his wife had had an abortion, this horrific episode would never have happened. Well, sure if his wife had aborted a week earlier this wouldn’t have happened. How pray tell was anyone supposed to predict this would happen? He even says they had the option for abortion and apparently chose not to go that route. If an ultrasound did indeed show a non-viable fetus, she could have gone to to any hospital for a D&C. So what’s his issue?
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if all emergency situations could be foreseen? Unfortunately, until we are all blessed with the gift of prophecy, situations like this will continue to occur.
Cathy,Awsome post!!!
Yours too Mary!
Heather, I know. I also know I’m not going to allow someone offended feelings to shut down any debate I may wish to engage in in a myriad of unpopular issues. If you have a gay brother, I’m still going to be talking about how homosexual acts are wrong, and if you consider this an attack on your brother, well… I’m sorry to hear that.
As far as women procuring an abortion (such as your mother), everyone is redeemable, and I am never going to judge what sort of person she is. Every sin is forgivable (even if you don’t believe in sin)
But I will discuss the intrinsic evil of the act that your mother procured. If you don’t believe it was an evil act, you’ll need to clarify the details and then we’ll discuss it.
To DBB:
I can understand your pain at the loss of your child, but I certainly don’t condemn that decision. It is what we Catholics term as “double effect”, and as someone who is rabidly pro-life, my wife and I would probably have come to the same decision your wife and you did.
But equating your situation to most abortions is like equating shooting a robber in self defense to cold bloodedly murdering someone for their wallet (which abortionists in the US do by the millions every year).
I hate to say it, when innocent lives are at stake, people’s feelings are pretty irrelevant.
I’m not saying you cannot and should not voice your opinions on issues, Tony.
I just think there are better ways to do so without being overly offensive, condescending, or generalizing.
Hi Mary,
I’m not in the health care profession in any capacity so I cannot speak to any of the medical situations in the lawyer’s essay. From your responses it looks like you would be far more capable to make a knowledgeable judgment in that arena.
I think that I could not make a decision or come to a conclusion one way or another because not only am I, and for that matter nor is anyone else reading his essay, privy to the facts of the situation but I’m also not trained to understand the medical issues.
I can only speak to those things which in the course of his essay became evident, such as his mindset, his predisposition towards supporting abortion, and some of his own conclusions.
I firmly believe he is in error in his position of supporting the killing of human babies simply because they are not born yet I think that I have compassion for his and his wife’s loss and their grief.
You’re right Cathy, a background in the medical area does give me an advantage and a broader perspective on a situation like this. But it also makes me scratch my head in bewilderment over what DBB is ranting about since in no way did I see any mismanagement of his wife’s care. Medical emergencies happen and are seldom predictable and it seems to me everything was handled as it should have been. How DBB perceives this whole situation as part of the abortion debate and why he thinks there’s a danger of pro-life politicians having any say in a situation like this is beyond my comprehension.
I just chalk it up to the man having been in a very traumatic situation and being ignorant of the fact that doctors and hospitals have every legal right and always have, to do whatever is necessary to protect a pregnant woman’s life, and yes that includes abortion.