MSM embryonic stem cell lies
The following left-wing cartoons ran in mainstream media (MSM) newspapers like the Washington Post or Tribune Media this past week.
What do they all have in common?
For starters, every single one omits the word “embryonic” when describing the stem cell legislation President Bush vetoed June 20.
Oversight? Absolutely not, particularly since in his very speech vetoing taxpayer-funded embryo destruction the President announced he had issued an executive order enhancing federal support of adult pluripotent stem cells (same pliable attribute as embryonic).
Many of these cartoons contain outright lies, such as #3, which says Bush would veto “any” stem cell research; or #4 and #6, which show Bush denying stem cell help to spinal cord injury or sick people in general.
In fact, adult stem cells have successfully treated at least 73 assorted cancers, auto-immune disorders like Type I Diabetes, immunodeficiencies, anemias/blood deficiencies, wounds, metabolic disorders, and these disease types: heart, liver, bladder, eye, neural degenerative (including Parkinson’s, spinal cord injuries, and stroke).
Treatments from embyo destruction research? 0.
In fact, the Bush administration has provided over $3 billion tax dollars for ethical adult stem cell research, and $130 illion for research on embryos that had already been destroyed before 2001.
These cartoons provide a “Where’s Waldo” of hidden and not so hidden misinformation. What more do you see?
Copyright Washington Post
(See five more cartoons on page 2.)
Copyright Washington Post
Copyright Tribune Media Services, Inc.
Copyright Tribune Media Services, Inc.
Copyright Tribune Media Services, Inc.
Copyright Creators Syndicate
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
But adult stem cells don’t exist. The republican’s just pretend they do so they can justify letting those poor invalids die.
These kind of lies printed in our “conservative” media that some were so adament about yesterday. Well if these don’t scream LIBERAL!!!! then what does?
“outright lies”
WAAAAAAAAH!
LMAO
They’re doing exactly what you do Jill, only they’re cartoons and not pretending to be some sort of objective assessment.
Luvmy5kids, Lauren, you beat me to it!
embryonic research hasn’t been around for very long whereas adult research has–that’s why we haven’t had cures yet.
Bethany, we’re speedy!
How are you doing?
PIP, 9:48a, you’re right. That day will likely come. So the real focus must remain on the humanity of embryos. I heard a good quote last week: “Every time in history when we’ve tried to say humans aren’t persons, it hasn’t gone well.”
I’m doing okay, Lauren. I feel a little better after yesterday. Yesterday James took off work for the whole day so he could be there to comfort me. The miscarriage hasn’t happened yet, but I know it’s close because of the bleeding. I think I have gotten all the crying out of my system, and today I feel peaceful and I feel that “everything will be okay”….I just hope that if there is a cause that is making this happen, that maybe the doctors will be able to figure it out. I don’t want to have any more pregnancies end like this.
It’s so hard.
Bethany,
I’ll keep you in my thoughts. I know it’s got to be rough.
I’m glad your husband was able to stay home. Oliver wasn’t when we had our miscarraiga and it was really hard. I really do hope that they find some answers. I know that not knowing is horrible. I’m praying for you guys. I’m here for you if you need it.
Sorry for the change of IP and email addy, again…I’m up at East Stroudsburg University for summer classes (glutton for punishment).
Bethany, I am so sorry. You’re the kind of person that this doesn’t need to be happening to. You’re a sweet, wonderful lady, and I am with the others in praying for you and your pregnancy. *hugs*
Actually, not a single disease has been cured using adult stem cells, although thay can tell you what you are going to die of MUCH SOONER.
Fortunately, this year’s big breakthrough is the discovery of an end-run to get around the primative, shrieking, Jezoids. (This embryonic research is going on at Berkely and Stanford as well…)
Hybrid embryos get go-ahead
David Batty
Thursday May 17, 2007
Guardian Unlimited
The government has overturned its proposed ban on the creation of human-animal embryos and now wants to allow them to be used to develop new treatments for incurable diseases such as Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s.
The proposal, in a new draft fertility bill published today, would allow scientists to create three different types of hybrid embryos.
Scientists would be allowed to grow the embryos in a lab for no more than two weeks, and it would be illegal to implant them in a human.
The first kind of hybrid allowed under the bill, known as a chimeric embryo, is made by injecting cells from an animal into a human embryo. The second, known as a human transgenic embryo, involves injecting animal DNA into a human embryo.
The third, known as a cytoplasmic hybrid, is created by transferring the nuclei of human cells, such as skin cells, into animal eggs from which almost all the genetic material has been removed.
This is this type of human-animal embryo that is being developed in British universities. Scientists say that developing these embryos will provide a plentiful source of stem cells – immature cells that can develop into many different types of tissue – for use in medical research.
The move is a U-turn on proposals to outlaw all types of human-animal embryos set out by ministers in a white paper published last December.
But the new proposal would not allow the creation of “true hybrid” embryos, which would involve fertilising a human egg with animal sperm or vice versa.
The government was criticised by the Commons science and technology committee for proposing an outright ban after objections were raised by pro-life groups opposed to any research on embryos.
The draft bill, which also covers fertility treatment, will overhaul the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990.
British scientists have already applied to the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority, which regulates embryo research, for a licence to use human-animal embryos for medical research.
Professor John Burn, head of the human genetics institute at Newcastle University, welcomed the government’s U-turn.
“I’m delighted that common sense has prevailed. I fully understand the knee-jerk reaction that creating human-animal embryos is worrying,” he said.
“But what we’re talking about here are cells on a dish not a foetus. We’re talking about something that looks like sago under the microscope. And it’s illegal to ever turn these cells into a living being.”
A team led by Lyle Armstrong at Newcastle University’s stem cell institute has applied to the HFEA to use cow eggs to develop stem cells for the treatment of diabetes and spinal paralysis.
Another team led by Professor Stephen Minger, director of the stem cell biology laboratory at King’s College London, wants to use human-bovine embryos to study degenerative neurological diseases such as Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s.
Bethany, I e-mailed you. How are you? Can you tell me what has happened? If you would rather not put it here, can you e-mail me?
Good news. Someone on My Space has just informed me of another abortion clinic closing in Atlantic City.
laura says,
“And it’s illegal to ever turn these cells into a living being.”
Well, that’s a relief! Because we know that no one on this earth would ever do anything against the law! So we need not worry about that!!
Heather,
Just curious, do you know why they’re closing?
luv, I will find out.
The clinic is called Alternatives. It is closed due to health code violations, poor documentation, and faulty equipment.
Bethany, I am so sorry for what is happening to you. The power of your witness grows in adversity. Seems likes most of us are going through some pretty extraordinary things right now. Press on.
With regards to this post:
What power, if not the truth, has evil but lies?
The truth is there is no power in lies, only self-destruction.
Welcome back His Man. I am so very sorry about your loss. My deepest sympathy to you and your family.
I could use some prayer as well. I am going through some difficut times too. If anyone could, it would be appreciated.
Note: I’m heading down for surgery in about an hour for an experimental procedure, a partial retinal transplant. The ONLY reason that this is available to me is because of stem cell research.
SCR is probably going to prevent me from becoming blind within a very short amount of time.
Speak no ill of it.
“The clinic is called Alternatives. It is closed due to health code violations, poor documentation, and faulty equipment.”
Translations; A bunch of politically aspiring zealot nut jobs looked hard enough and long enough until they found something wrong.
Prayers for Erin and Heather.
“you’re right. That day will likely come. So the real focus must remain on the humanity of embryos. I heard a good quote last week: “Every time in history when we’ve tried to say humans aren’t persons, it hasn’t gone well.”
Fetus centric fools!
Doesn’t matter if it’s a person. Nobody has a right to unvolunteered body or organs.
The thing to remember about this stuff is that we only learned how to isolate and characterize adult stem cells by working on embryonic stem cells.
If the right-to-lifers had had their way ten years ago, we would have no adult stem cell work today.
This just in… Pot Calls Kettle Black!
Jill, how many times have you skewed wording to fit your purpose? How many times have you used the words “pro-abort” or “abortionist”? Too many to count, no doubt. How many times have you made use of blown up rhetoric to make your point? How many times have you slipped a fallacy or two into your posts in order to continue your goal of “persuading”? That was the word you used with me. You’re not here to win an argument, you said, you’re here to persuade. And your posts make it clear that you intend to use emotional appeals, rhetoric and occasionally bad logic to do it. Are you the only one that is allowed? Would you like to explain to me why when you do it it’s okay, but when they do it it’s not? Especially given that these are cartoons with limited space to get the point across. Sometimes nuances have to be glossed over. But you have all sorts of blog space to say what you like. What’s your excuse?
“What’s your [Jill’s] excuse?”
LOL.
In short, she’s drinking the Kool-Aid.
The Bush Administration and the Republican Religious Right who think they represent the majority of American may think they have good reason to advocate a continued moratorium on embryonic stem cell research, but soon, the perceived societal benefits of such research will far outweigh the perceived moral objection by the mindless Republican Conservative Religious Right.
A cure for Cancer, Diabetes, MS, ACL, MD or Alzheimer is all it will take for this issue to finally reach the tipping point. What will a member of the Bush Administration or the Republican Religious Right; facing a choice between futures lives of Alzheimer or MS do when a new cure based on an embryonic stem cell becomes available. Most of President Bush’s “dead-head” policies will become increasingly hard to sustain.
Here’s a suggestion for the Bush Administration and the Republican Conservative Religious Right to rallying support for his stand against embryonic stem cell research. With the Fox News Network cameras rolling at the White house. The Bush Administration and the Republican Conservative Religious Right and their like-minded political friends (and their families) should gather at the White House to re-affirm their beliefs that medical treatment derived from embryonic stem cell research by signing a Presidential Proclamation stating that they all will never under any circumstances, accept any form of medical treatment for themselves or their children derived from embryonic stem cell research. Example has always been the most effective component of leadership; however two-facedness will most likely win the day.
Regarding the cartoons not including the word “embryonic”.
There a bunch of sneaky little leftist twits…
Bathany, my prayers are with you….
Political cartoons make me giggle. These aren’t particularly funny though.
It’s a shame you never post conservative political cartoons as they do exist, in fact the post several of them in the St. Paul Pioneer Press (a fairly moderate newspaper) and they often balance between the “sneaky little leftist twits” and the “psychotic right-wing idiots”.
“mindless Republican Conservative Religious Right”
James, you clueless liberal wimp. Anythinig that kills the unborn is OK with you people, you have no morals. Will you take a pledge to not use cures from non-embryonic stem cell research?
Hypocrite
Rae,
They make me giggle too, when I do come across them. I don’t take them anymore seriously than I do the Sunday comics, though.
I’m doing research with stem cells (well, I’m an research assistant anyway =P).
I likes it.
I likes it alot.
=P
Thats good news Stephanie, I’m glad to hear that your staying away from “embryonic” stem cell research….
@Heather: I usually don’t either, though sometimes they are pretty darn clever. And of course I always love the comics that poke fun at our oh-so-charming President. *sigh*
Er…I never said I was staying away from embryonic stem cell research.
At any rate, I guess I *technically* will eventually do ESC research (once I get more oriented in my lab), but it’ll be on mice.
Oh, but Rae. Who doesn’t like those ones? Oh, wait….
@Heather: Those can be hilarious, I also enjoyed the one that my paper ran after Jerry Falwell passed away…it was of Jerry Falwell in front of “Heaven’s Gates” and St. Peter was there and behind the gates was the Teletubby “Tinky-Winky”. I nearly died laughing.
Rae,
I rarely actually get to see political cartoons. In fact, these are probably the first I’ve seen (that I remember) in months.
Anyway. No matter what your position is, if you’re in the public eye, you’re not exempt from ridicule.
I’ve actually known people to get incredibly upset over such silly little things.
@Heather: In 8th grade my social studies teacher taught us the symbolism often used in political cartoons like the use of “fat cats” to represent “Big Business” and pigs to represent “Pork Barrel spending” as well as the origins of the Elephant/Donkey symbols for Republicans and Democrats. It was really interesting and I’m really glad my teacher did that with us because I was able to get so much more out of the editorial cartoons.
I don’t even remember what was taught in my 8th grade social studies class =/.
I must be such a loser for remembering that… >_
Jill?s not very original….
http://www.thecitizennews.com/node/17695
Also, cherry-picking. Here’s some liberal cartoons that invoke embryonic
http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/store/add.php?iid=15824
http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/store/add.php?iid=14473
Here’s some anti-stem cell cartoons minus ?embryonic?
http://members.inode.at/359743/frankenstein/images/dickwright-frank-cartoon.gif%5B
http://www.thepeoplescube.com/images/10oclock_children_stem_200.gif
Granted, I had to really dig for those last two, and it appears conservatives aren?t particularly handy with wit.
Haha. I only remember the classes that interested me (either because of the teacher or the subject matter).
And House is on :D.
Ooooh! What episode of House is it?
It’s the one with the little girl and the kiddie ride.
Obviously a repeat, but I haven’t seen it since I never remember that it’s on.
Ooooooh, that’s a good episode. Chase totally shows his inner smarty-pants at the last minute. It’s glorious.
I refuse to watch it however, as it has Tritter in it and I am boycotting the Tritter episodes because they were so bloody aggravating and annoying. A complete waste of David Morse in my opinion.
There is a very large problem here.
There are not two opposing views on stem cells because IMO the science of stem cells is more everyday and diverse than ever imagined. Stem cells are not the body’s repair kit but the normal way learning occurs.
As one small example: to learn to play a piano all sorts of different kinds of cells are needed … skin cells, muscle cells, nerve cells, brain – emotion cells (R-complex); cerebellar cells; etc, etc. Now a babe learns … voices, language, smiling, eating; on and on. We call this plasticity. As we age both plasticity and the number of ‘free’ stem cells diminish. Read more at http://organics4u.stemtechbiz.com/Default_US_EN.aspx
There linger some ethical problems with just our present perspective. A newborn has many cells still in the placenta. There can be as much as 1/3 of the baby’s blood supply locked into the placenta if the cord is cut too quickly. [I assume that cord stem-cells exist because the baby doesn’t have enough time to drain the placenta fully. Are these cells not needed?]
Additionally these are cells and not drugs, so their viability and ability to thrive is dependent on a secondary input of nutrition. Orthodox medical research is avoiding nutrient demand on these new cells. Thereby, they rob the full implementation of these cells.
Which one’s Tritter, again? I don’t watch it enough to know all their names yet, and then there’s the fact that I’m usually working while I’m watching it. Oh, the joys of multi-tasking.
Never mind. I figured it out. He’s the jerkface who doesn’t like House.
@Heather: Yup. He’s definitely a jerk-face. And that’s putting it nicely.
You’re right. He is annoying.
Yeah, he’s bein’ a big ol’ meanie to Wilson. :(
Chyeah. I’d say that was a pretty low blow.
Indeed.
And I dare say we have officiously hijacked this thread. I’m mighty proud in a way… :-p
We must be awesome that way.
…Or everyone else is out having a life =/.
I think I like the first answer better.
I agree. Seriously though, I have no life and it makes me a sad panda once again. Though I did finish my lab report on the “Catalytic Hydrogenation of Eugenol” for class tomorrow. So I is happy aboot that. :D
I don’t have much of a social life. I’m not unhappy about that seeing as I’m not too fond of people in general (much less loud, obnoxious people in large groups) and I get annoyed with my friends after hanging out with them for so long.
I’d much rather sit in my room with the tv, my laptop, and a book. Darren’s the only person I can stand to be around all day, every day.
And yay, on the lab report! Sheesh. Even the title sounds confusing.
That’s more or less how I am. I’m perfectly content just staying at home on the interweb talking to my online friends (who I dare say are far more fun to talk to than my real life “friends”).
The lab report really isn’t as confusing as it sounds…eugenol is a compound that is in cloves (it’s what makes cloves smell so pretty) and it has a double bond in it so when it’s poured over palladium (or any other metallic catalyst) and is surrounded by hydrogen gas, the double bond changes into a single bond and more hydrogen is added to the compound.
My real life friends are perfectly fantastic for the most part, I just don’t like dealing with people too often (which is what makes my job…filing deeds online…so perfect).
I think I’m going to just go ahead and attribute it to the fact that I never got any alone time before I moved out since I shared a room with my sister.
My real life friends are annoying as all get-out. I honestly don’t know why I hang out with them…oh wait, that’s right. I don’t. And I haven’t talked to any of them for nearly 3 weeks now, which is actually a record.
But I like going to work at my lab, I like the people who work there. :)
Mine can be annoying, although that might have more to do with the fact that can be very irritable.
*that I can be very irritable.
Cardinal Pell:
Regarding the Quote of the day:
…these are truly sick people.
?We were all embryos once? ?That is how we started and from there we developed. The human embryo cannot develop as anything other than a human being. Therefore, it has intrinsic human dignity and should be afforded that most basic of human rights ? the right to live, to grow, to prosper.?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excuse me-
Fertility clinics destroy embryos ALL THE TIME!
There’s a clinic not three blocks from my home. Should I stand outside and scream “babykiller!” at the patients through a bullhorn? Should I remind the women that God clearly wanted them to be infertile?
In fact – why aren’t you “right-to-lifers” gathering outside these deathcamps and working to shut them down?
@Laura: There are some who do do that…I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry.
IVF eliminates the marriage act as the means of achieving pregnancy, instead of helping it achieve this natural end. The new life is not engendered through an act of love between husband and wife, but by a laboratory procedure performed by doctors or technicians. Husband and wife are merely sources for the “raw materials” of egg and sperm, which are later manipulated by a technician to cause the sperm to fertilize the egg. Not infrequently, “donor” eggs or sperm are used. This means that the genetic father or mother of the child could well be someone from outside the marriage. This can create a confusing situation for the child later, when he or she learns that one parent raising him or her is not actually the biological parent.
Human beings bear the image and likeness of God. They are to be reverenced as sacred. Never are they to be used as a means to an end, not even to satisfy the deepest wishes of an infertile couple. Husbands and wives “make love,” they do not “make babies.” They give expression to their love for one another, and a child may or may not be engendered by that act of love. The marital act is not a manufacturing process, and children are not products. Like the Son of God himself, we are the kind of beings who are “begotten, not made” and, therefore, of equal status and dignity with our parents.
In IVF, children are engendered through a technical process, subjected to “quality control,” and eliminated if found “defective.” In their very coming into being, these children are thoroughly subjected to the arbitrary choices of those bringing them into being
I just love how people on here slag off about IVF… and it just makes me feel so good about myself, being an IVF baby and all. I’m sure my cousin will feel right good about himself as well, considering he too is an IVF baby.
Didn’t you know, Rae? Absolutely everything has to be natural.
If you don’t want children and you get pregnant, your only options should be to keep the kid or put it up for adoption.
If you want children and you can’t get pregnant, well you either have to deal with it or adopt.
It’s all a load of crap in my opinion, but hey…I’m just a godless heathen, so what do I know?
If Jill Stanek and her ilk had had their way, you, Rae, would never have been conceived.
The statements above say nothing about the children of IVF, only about the process in which they were created…
@Jasper: But without IVF I would not be here. So in essence your comments also have to do with the children who are conceived by such an immoral process.
“So in essence your comments also have to do with the children who are conceived by such an immoral process.”
No, they don’t Rae.
Rae, how does it feel to be an IVF baby? (Warning: I’m signing off soon and may not read your answer until the a.m.)
@Jill: I didn’t have a problem with it (didn’t really care to be honest) until I started paying attention to the pro-choice/pro-life debate about 6 months ago and only then did it start making me feel inferior because people keep saying how “god-awful” IVF is and how immoral and sinful the process is but when I mention that I am an IVF baby they go on to say, “Well you’re existence isn’t immoral” when by your logic it should be. I was created “artificially” and my parents are more or less “killers” for doing IVF in the first place. I don’t like it how people say how IVF needs to be stopped but without IVF I wouldn’t be here. The fact that people say that IVF is so bad yet my parents did it because they truly wanted a child of their own flesh and blood (yes, BOTH of my parents are my biological parents) but they MUST be selfish and immoral.
That’s what bothers me. Otherwise I have no problem with being an IVF baby outside of these debates.
Oooer…that was a tad incoherent. Sorry.
Lyssie, Lauren, Heather B, Hisman, thank you all for your kind words. Heather4life, I never did get your email…can you try resending?
@Jill: I didn’t have a problem with it (didn’t really care to be honest) until I started paying attention to the pro-choice/pro-life debate about 6 months ago and only then did it start making me feel inferior because people keep saying how “god-awful” IVF is and how immoral and sinful the process is but when I mention that I am an IVF baby they go on to say, “Well you’re existence isn’t immoral” when by your logic it should be. I was created “artificially” and my parents are more or less “killers” for doing IVF in the first place. I don’t like it how people say how IVF needs to be stopped but without IVF I wouldn’t be here. The fact that people say that IVF is so bad yet my parents did it because they truly wanted a child of their own flesh and blood (yes, BOTH of my parents are my biological parents) but they MUST be selfish and immoral.
Rae, I am so sorry that you hear it this way when people talk against IVF procedure.I like you, and I think most everyone here does… I can assure you that it is not at all the babies that we are against, but the process which kills other lives in the process of gaining one life. I know this really doesn’t explain it fully to you….
Just think of the fact that there are some of your brothers and/or sisters are not here today who possibly could have been here, because they were created.
Now, this is not to say that your parents could have had you or your brothers amd sisters naturally, but that extras were most likely created that didn’t make it. This is the problem.
I get the feeling that if the process only created one embryo at a time, not many pro-lifers would have a problem with it.
The problem is not so much with creating life, it is with destroying life. Or creating life that almost definitely will be destroyed. We have no problem with your existance..we are Thankful that you are here!…we have a problem with the idea that many of your brothers and sisters were created to be destroyed in an attempt to have you.
The way you feel is simlilar to the way we feel about abortion being legal. You say that it hurts you for us to say that IVF is wrong because if it weren’t for IVF you wouldn’t be here.
Simililarly, we feel that when pro-choicers say that abortion should be legal, it hurts us because we know that there are many wonderful people who could be here, if it weren’t for abortion.
Sorry if any of that doesn’t make sense…I just woke up and am a little groggy.
“I was created “artificially” and my parents are more or less “killers” for doing IVF in the first place. I don’t like it how people say how IVF needs to be stopped but without IVF I wouldn’t be here. The fact that people say that IVF is so bad yet my parents did it because they truly wanted a child of their own flesh and blood (yes, BOTH of my parents are my biological parents) but they MUST be selfish and immoral.”
Hi Rae,
you couldn’t have understood the moral dimensions of IVF worse. So I hope to help somewhat … the ‘artificial’ aspect comes about by the manipulation of a natural process. This does not mean that you or anyone created via IVF are artificial …. we are created by the union of a sperm and egg … all mammals are created thus – totally natural. The artificiality comes from how this union took place.
The ‘artificiality’ becomes extended when the sperm or the egg is not biologically related … is this quasi-adoption? Confusion mounts when inter-species hybrids (chimeras) are formed, or (in the case of cloning) the original DNA-structure is replaced by a removal of DNA from the union with the DNA of a foreign cell.
Big problems arise not because of personal acceptance but such things as … can chimeras inherit property? … how are we to understand human-clones? … they seem to have a very high incidence of degeneration. Should Medicare pay for it? Should Medicare pay for IVF treatments … remember that for one unsuccessful IVF about 10 cancer treatments are possible … and ???? school lunches for children of the poor.
So, you see Rae life is not as straight-forward as you assume.
Rae, thanks for the feedback.
I haven’t worked all the IVF kinks out in my head. The Catholic Church teaches it’s flat out wrong, I believe, and even though I’m not Catholic I’ve agreed with every other Catholic pro-life thought heretofore. Catholics have thought through bioethical issues way more and better than Protestants.
I understand the Catholic rationale for promoting natural conceptions and agree with it.
The Bible also appears clear that God determines conceivability and barrenness. I’ve observed as an RN that women who get pregnant by unnatural means often have trouble maintaining their pregnancies, as if they had physical liabilities they didn’t realize beforehand.
So I’ve got that in my mind. But I know a few IVF babies, including you now, and I wouldn’t want them or you not here.
So one thought I have is to regulate IVF, as Bethany mentioned, so fewer or even one eggs would be fertilized and all placed in a mom’s uterus and not frozen either.
John brings up other moral or logistical quandaries.
@Rae (using your typing structure, which I think is cute), I would think you’d be on the bandwagon to ensure IVF embryos grow to see the light of day?
“Just think of the fact that there are some of your brothers and/or sisters are not here today who possibly could have been here, because they were created.
Now, this is not to say that your parents could have had you or your brothers amd sisters naturally, but that extras were most likely created that didn’t make it. This is the problem.”
@Bethany: But you see? You are implying that my parents are “killers” for doing IVF because of the “siblings” I ended up not having. But you know what? My mom had more than SIX natural miscarriages, which were SIX potential siblings that were never born, compared to the three other embryos besides myself that were created in order for my conception to occur.
And within 9 months of my birth, my younger brother Brady was conceived naturally…so the fact that my mom had been pregnant once helped her to be more able to conceive. It’s this type of thinking that bothers me.
And I would like to say Bethany, that I am very sorry to hear about your miscarriage. I don’t know what you are going through, but I would just like to let you know you are in my thoughts and I am always willing to listen. :)
@Jill: I do think IVF embryos should see the light of day, but in the event that they are never adopted and then conceived, I think they should be put to good use via stem cell research. Thinking back, if I wasn’t going to be “used” to be conceived or whatever, I would like to have been used for science and experimentation, even if it did mean the li’l embryonic me would die. I see it as my death for the sake of science and learning would be for the greater good of those who are already born.
However, I do think it would be beneficial (meaning less controversial) of more of an effort to attain umbilical cord blood to obtain stem cells as placentas are usually thrown away anyway (unless there are religious or cultural practices). I think mothers should be encouraged or even given incentives to donate their placentas to science if that would help further research.
But eh, that’s just my opinion on things. *If* I ever got pregnant, I would donate the placenta for experimentation and research because I think a lot of good can come from that.
@Bethany: But you see? You are implying that my parents are “killers” for doing IVF because of the “siblings” I ended up not having. But you know what? My mom had more than SIX natural miscarriages, which were SIX potential siblings that were never born, compared to the three other embryos besides myself that were created in order for my conception to occur.
Rae, I don’t in any way consider your mother a killer. She was attempting to have a baby…the pain and loss you feel after a miscarriage is devastating. After 6 miscarriages, I think anyone who wanted a baby would be considering something like IVF. Her intent was not to destroy life, but to give life to some baby. That had to be so painful for her to have lost 6 babies to miscarriage. After my second loss I don’t know if I could emotionally handle that many.
The problem is not with the desperate men and women who want children…it’s with the process in which the clinics offer their help. If they could do it with 1 embryo at a time, it would be great….. I don’t know how to explain how I feel to you without making you feel bad, I honestly mean no disrespect to your mother at all. I know her pain was tremendous after her losses…. and she finally was blessed to have you and your brother. This is a good thing, and I am happy she finally was able to have children.
And I would like to say Bethany, that I am very sorry to hear about your miscarriage. I don’t know what you are going through, but I would just like to let you know you are in my thoughts and I am always willing to listen. :)
Thank you so much Rae. I haven’t posted here much as you can tell and it’s because I just don’t feel like posting that much right now.
Tomorrow I’ll get a blood test done, then Monday I’ll know if the levels have gone up or down I haven’t actually had a miscarriage yet, just some bleeding, so in the back of my mind I’m not totally sure what’s happening). It’s the waiting that is most difficult. Thank you for thinking about me.
Bethany, I bled very badly the day I found out I was pregnant with my second child. The ER doc. said “You have probably miscarried.” due to the large amount of blood. I was admitted to the hospital, and the next day an ultrasound revealed that I was still pregnant. Just something to encourage you.
Thank you, Heather. :)