Double standard
Sep.06, 2007 8:51 am |
Pop Culture |
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
To answer your question, it’s considered acceptable for democrats to be philandering pigs in the style of Kennedy and Clinton, however at the debate last night, a Senior Poli Sci major confronted Guiliani on his apparent lack of family values. Republican contenders are expected to have Christmas card, intake, nuclear families- whereas democrats can have affairs with interns while in public office and on the taxpayers’ dime.
Speaking of the debate, Jill, I was hoping you’d post your thoughts. I tuned in the second Romney was confronted on his “let states decide abortion” position. He squirmed, weaseled and pandered, and then said something that I detest more than anything else, [not verbatim] “I hate abortion. I know we wish there was not any abortions but America isn’t ready to give up legal abortion.” That clearly shows that he doesn’t recognize abortion for what it is, because certainly he wouldn’t say America isn’t ready to give up rape, or child abuse, or domestic violence, or school shootings. I can’t in good conscience vote for him.
intake=intact. I meant intact nuclear families. :)
On a positive note, I realized last night just how much I heart Huckabee. I’m still a committed Brownbacker, but I’d be overjoyed to have him in office. I disagree about the fair tax he proposes, but this is a guy that won’t betray the troops in Iraq or withdraw dishonorably and leave Iraq in ruins.
Other observations: I realized that Ron Paul is an annoying little squeaky anarchist and that I would shoot myself if I had to hear give speeches. I also realized that Rudy is 100% basing his belief that he is presidential material on the fact that he successfully ran a city (not understanding that working with world leaders rather than city councilmen is not the same ballgame.) I, furthermore realized that Sam Brownback’s eyes look permanently half-shut, but that he’s extremely bold and doesn’t waiver on contestuous moral issues (like gay marriage). And Duncan Hunter wasn’t given much opportunity to speak at all.
Wait! Can I comment on the Republican debate when I, myself am not a Republican?
Jacqueline,
I agree with your analysis about how Republicans are held to a higher moral standard..and Democrats love to call them hypocrites without condeming the actual immorallity itself. I mean after all, it’s not like Sen. Craig left a girl to die (she was alive for ~12hrs) after driving his car off a bridge drunk, which he saved himself and never sought help to save the girl…thats Sen. Kennedy I’m talking about.
“Wait! Can I comment on the Republican debate when I, myself am not a Republican?”
Can I ask what you are?
Can I ask what you are?
I’m Catholic. :)
Oh, OK, well thats a good answer, I agree. me too.
and I like Huckabee/BrownBack…and Hunter..
Mitt didn’t have a good debate last night.
I don’t think that Republicans are held to a higher standard, per say, its just a bigger issue when Republican candidates are revealed not to be adhering to their purported ‘moral standards’ because Republicans tend to be more self-righteous. Candidates tend to decry the state of morality in this country and extol traditional Christian values. They stick their noses in everyone else’s business and try to legislate how citizens should run their private lives. Of course it’s a bigger issue when Republicans are revealed to be hypocrites who don’t even live by the standards that they claim to hold so dear. They’re the ones who are trying to make everyone else live by rules that they don’t even obey.
To clarify- I’m definitely not liberal. I’m emphatically not liberal. I’m a moral values voter that doesn’t line up completely with the left or the right.
I’m a staunch moral conservative (uniquivocably pro-life) and believe in personal responsibility. I used to consider myself libertarian, but I’m not that economically laissez faire (sometimes corporate bail-outs are necessary) and I think that even victimless crimes like prostitution, pornography and sex work are the exploitation of vulnerable women, so I can’t support their legality. While I claim to support civil liberties, my anti-pornography stance puts me at odds with first amendment lovers everywhere.
Furthermore, I can’t support a flat tax or national sales tax. While I agree in practice that it’s fair that everyone contribute for services that everyone receives (like national defense), I see an undue burden placed on the poor. The poor are poor. The middle-class, upper-class and wealthy can still get by. I know that the income tax is the antithesis of fair, to make some people pay for the goods and services given for many and some never pay at all for what they receive, but I can’t increase the burden on the poor. I am blessed to be well-educated and make a nice living, and I would absolutely like to keep the money I’ve earned, but if you read proverbs it’s made quite clear to empower and not oppress the poor. I think that there should be less government waste (for example, I owe 45,000 to the government for my education and I know people that have gotten more money than that in grants and never graduated), and then the tax burden on the rich could be lowered.
I also get queasy at how the US has exploited Mexico with its free trade policies(think NAFTA) and yet so many Republicans get indignant when the mexican people migrate north across the border simply to feed themselves and their families. How many Mexicans do we see hijacking planes or suicide bombing? They are a working people that are unduly persecuted.
So I’m not a Republican in many economic issues and some domestic issues- but I’m not a democrat in any way. I vote in a way I think will please Jesus, hence, I’m Catholic.
I now anticipate the virtual flogging to begin. :)
Republican contenders are expected to have Christmas card, intake, nuclear families- whereas democrats can have affairs with interns while in public office and on the taxpayers’ dime.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excuse me?
Every top-tier Republican candidate besides Romney is divorced – the Democratic candidates have a much better record.
As for Democrats being philanderers, infidelity is still legal. Republicans claim to take the high ground – all the while soliciting underage boys on the internet, phoning the Washington Madame, and trolling for gay sex in public restrooms.
There’s a big Republican “Values Debate” that’s supposed to occur on September 17th. What’s notable about this debate? NONE OF THE BIG GUNS WILL BE THERE! Not Guiliani, not McCain, not Romney, not Thompson. They can make all the other debates, but none of them take
Read David Kuo’s book “Tempting Faith.” The Republicans have always considered the Christian Right to be a pack of obedient sheeple, and you guys prove them correct over and over again!
Jeeeez Jill. Do you really buy the idea thet Ted Haggard, former Christian White House advisor, is really “homo no ‘mo” after a three-week retreat?
C’mon people. Stop wailing about your virtue at least as long as your guys and snorting meth with male prostitutes in Denver hotel rooms.
They can make all the other debates, but none of them take
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
…this one seriously.
(I really shouldn’t post immediately upon waking. I’m not exactly lucid.)
See, Laura,
I don’t really care. I think a vast majority of politicians are slimey bastards, Democrat and Republican alike. It’s how well they can convince me that they’ll vote how I want them to: protecting babies from curettes, saving the elderly, disabled and infirm from euthanasia, protecting national security, and so on.
Even the evil “FAUX News” audience agreed that Ron Paul won last night’s debate.
Less than 1% of Americans believe that abortion is the top issue in the next election. Abortion as an issue doesn’t even rate the top ten:
http://www.pollingreport.com/prioriti.htm
I think I’ll have to disagree with this poll. Approximatly 600,000 of us showed up for the January RT Life March. That’s not a very small group.
Fewer than 100,000 were at the Washington DC March for Life. CSPAN sold the rights to the coverage to a Catholic network for $1.
(You’ve really hit bottom when CSPAN considers you “too boring.”)
“CSPAN sold the rights to the coverage to a Catholic network for $1.”
EWTN, baby!
Jackie: “I also get queasy at how the US has exploited Mexico with its free trade policies(think NAFTA) and yet so many Republicans get indignant when the mexican people migrate north across the border simply to feed themselves and their families.”
I totally disagree with this, by letting illegal immigrants pass the border, they are cutting in front of legal immigrants who are following the law, filling out the necessary paperwork, etc. Mexico should do more for their own citizens and people need to stop blaming the US…..The Top 50% of Wage Earners Pay 97% of Income Taxes.
abortion…if the congress/president were 100% Republican, abortion would be illegal, if the congress/president were 100% Democrat, abortion would be legal through all 9 months of pregnancy.
So, I must say, although I don’t always agree with Republicans, I’m not ashamed to call myself one.
The Media’s Annual ‘Let’s Downplay the Washington March for Life’ Day Plays Out As Usual
By Tom Blumer | January 23, 2007 – 08:32 ET
Life News has the real story:
Proving the pro-life movement is alive and well despite abortion advocates obtaining control of Congress last November, hundreds of thousands of pro-life advocates participated in the annual March for Life. The mood was optimistic and positive despite 34 years of legalized abortion since the Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade decision.
Independent confirmation of the size of the crowd, plus additional chances for readers to get a perspective on the number of people present (no aerial shots, unfortunately), is at “Barbara’s Public March for Life 2007 Gallery,” where Barbara says:
As a former radical leftist, I attended many demonstrations in Washington, DC. Now having attended the March for Life two years in a row, I’m amazed at how under-reported the March for Life is – and all too aware of how that under-reporting contributes to the rampant stereotyping of pro-lifers as middle-aged white males. I actually saw very few of those today! What I saw were hundreds of thousands of people willing to brave the cold (DC had its first snow of the winter the night before) to affirm that a baby in the womb is not property to be destroyed, but a person that those committed to human rights must defend. It’s a child, not a choice!
As has been the case for decades, those who are supposed to bring us the news couldn’t and/or wouldn’t accurately report what was occurring right in front of them:
I was one of them.
Now THIS is a March!:
http://www.now.org/history/slideshows/march2004/monument.jpg
There’s a lot of noise about throwing another one either in the Spring or Fall. (I vote fall – preferably right before the elections and the Supreme Court session…)
While the March fo Women’s lives was the largest demonstration in the Capitol’s history, 1.2 million is not enough. The promoters are looking to make it 2 million next time. (It’s always easier when you have cool bands and glamorous celebs on your side. START THE PARTY!)
abortion…if the congress/president were 100% Republican, abortion would be illegal, if the congress/president were 100% Democrat, abortion would be legal through all 9 months of pregnancy.
I concur with the latter, but 100% disagree with the former. This is because we’ve had several Congresses with a vast Republican majority- and yet we’ve never passed a human life amendment or even made a substantial cut to Planned Parenthood’s funding. So I am to believe that voting Republican will save babies? It hasn’t worked so far. Voting pro-life for president is imperative because of the power of supreme court appointments- other than that, voting pro-life at the state level is the only way to save a substantial number of babies.
Laura-
When 95% of the press calls itself pro-choice, and the AP stylebook insists that abortion be referred to in print as “abortion rights“, you’re shocked when the news deliberately ignores hundreds of thousands of pro-lifer EVERY SINGLE YEAR (myself included) pilgrimage to DC to march in the cold?
By the way, an anti-war rally on Roe v. Wade Day 2007 made national news- It had about 2 dozen attendees. An undisputed minimum 100,000+ pro-lifers filled the National Mall and marched to the steps of the Supreme Court- and this isn’t news? Perhaps it’s because we faithfully do it every year (whereas you pro-aborts march maybe once a decade), that the news is used to pro-lifers giving a damn about others.
There is no celebrity glamorous enough to make death look good. No band could cut it either.
Hitler had a lot of followers too. Look at how his life ended.
Pro life has a few glamorous celebrities of it’s own. Actress Patricia Heaton. Former models Kathy Ireland, Kim Alexis, and Brooke Shields.
I totally disagree with this, by letting illegal immigrants pass the border, they are cutting in front of legal immigrants who are following the law, filling out the necessary paperwork, etc.
Legal immigration is a joke. It’s designed to keep people out. I dated an Egyptian for 3 years in college that came to the US for his education. His mother was a English professor in Cairo, so his entire family grew up learning English with a better vocabulary than most native speakers. The guidelines given by immigration are designed to confuse people and economically choke them out of the US. Limits on where he could work (university only) and how much he could work (no more than 20 hours). He couldn’t travel home or the would not let him back in the US. He had no access to financial aid, so the only way he could survive was money from his parents. But most Mexicans aren’t sponsored by a wealthy family back home. Quite the opposite, they work and wire money home to their families. They are here to support, not be supported. When people are fleeing economic hardship, have no knowledge of English, and must work for next to nothing, how can one jump through the bureaucracy and survive the American attempts to kick them out? The bottom line, Jasper, is that if you or your family needed food to survive and you had no way of meeting the immigration requirements or any clue where to begin, you would be illegal too. You’d do what it takes. I have heard horror stories of Mexican women living almost as sex slaves for American men, because that’s the only way they can work in the US and send money back home. These people aren’t rebels thumbing their nose at the law. They’re impoverished and desperate.
Mexico should do more for their own citizens and people need to stop blaming the US.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda- doesn’t make a bit of difference to those Mexicans that are starving as we speak. And furthermore, I blame the US for trashing the indigenous economy with multinational corporations exploiting the Mexicans for cheap labor. I think it’s the epitome of audacity to act imposed upon when the Mexicans want to work at the Del Rio WalMart rather than a Mexican Walmart.
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Anti-abortion celebrities expose abortion as the poorest of choices
Date published: 1/23/2003
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo.–Holly- wood and the entertainment sector are not known for their pro-life views. However, the times may be changing. Several high-profile women known for their contributions to fashion and the performing arts are adding a pro-life message to their list of credentials.
These include swimsuit model Kathy Ireland, television star and Emmy award-winner Patricia Heaton, and motion-picture actress Jennifer O’Neill. In recent months, each of these celebrities publicly proclaimed her opposition to abortion, each woman with her own reason and message.
For Ireland, the humanity of the preborn child in the womb makes it impossible for her to accept that abortion is good for women. Heaton takes her cue from the founders of traditional feminism–early suffragettes–who vehemently opposed abortion as the ultimate exploitation of women. And O’Neill’s personal story echoes the emotional difficulty many women experience after an abortion.
These individual perspectives are perhaps best reflected in one statement by commentator Frederica Mathewes-Green: “[A woman] wants an abortion as an animal, caught in a trap, wants to gnaw off its own leg.”
The trapped animal-analogy resonates with women. It speaks to the desperation they often feel when faced with an unintended pregnancy. Trapped animals do desperate things to escape when they feel threatened–even killing those they perceive to stand in the way.
Likewise, abortion pits mother against child. A woman may believe that her only (or best) response must be at the expense of her own child’s life. However, women are not animals, and it’s not natural for women to kill their children. A woman knows this intuitively, so abortion offers them an unnatural solution to often-circumstantial problems.
Just ask Rebecca and Tisha, whose stories are posted on the Web site, ThinkAboutItOnline .com. Tisha writes that she was “panic-stricken” when she became pregnant in college. After her boyfriend abandoned her, she “had few options or support” and had an abortion. Rebecca’s boyfriend also turned tail to run, leaving her scared and able only to “see the hardships associated with being a single mom.”
Women like Rebecca and Tisha have discovered the hard way that abortion does not empower them, nor does it move them toward relational equality. Abortion becomes the trap that awaits pregnant women who are without an adequate support system–namely a stable marriage relationship. Being single adds to the dilemma.
Even if a woman wants to continue her pregnancy, financial worries and the disruption of school or career plans are what most often pushes her toward abortion. This is where society’s acceptance of abortion denies women a true choice in an unexpected pregnancy. Women need to know that they can continue their pregnancies and keep their place at school or on the job.
“Legal immigration is a joke.”
More immigrants come to the US more than any other country combined. They should the law, do not cut in front of poor people you have applied legally. While some mexican illegal aliens are good, many of them are filling up our prisons, don’t pay any taxes, killing our health-care system, not assimilating or trying to learn english, consistantly breaking the law, looking for handouts, flying the mexican flag, shouting “Obama! Obama!” at soccer games, hurting the school system, taking away jobs from law abiding citizens. not to mention that they would virtually all be voting for pro-abort Democrats ….And as far as your muslim boyfriend is concerned, you can’t expect us to provide financial aide for him, do you? to a non-citizen. what a joke.
It’s never consistant to recommend throwing illegal immigrants to the dogs, saying, “they are stealing our jobs!” while supporting large corporations outsourcing your jobs for pennies. Moral high ground?
Republicans generally pretend moral high ground when they don’t have them any more they Dems do.
And I sense the cartoon has the plank so low because of support for things like gay marriage, in which morality is disputed.
And they see things like feminism and social justice a threat to their high class morals. Give me a break.
shouting “Obama! Obama!” at soccer games,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK, I’ll bite.
Where the heck are illegal aliens yelling “Obama!” at soccer games?
How do you guys feel about some people from other countries who come to the US and receive tax breaks and freebies in schooling? Just asking. My friend married a woman from Russia. She made $ here, and then she sent it back to her family in Russia.
And as far as your muslim boyfriend is concerned, you can’t expect us to provide financial aide for him, do you?
Jasper, you’ve offended me by your assumptions and completely missed the point of that anecdote.
First of all, my (now ex) boyfriend was raised a Coptic Orthodox Christian, became an evangelical Christian as an adult and we met at Christian non-denominational church. Because one is Egyptian doesn’t make them a Muslim, and my ex-boyfriend engaged only in works of mercy in Jesus’ name, not bombing civilians for Allah.
No, absolutely not, do I think that the US should have provided any money for his education (although he paid his share of income taxes, it should be known). The point of that story was the the only way he could fufill the immigration guidelines was because he had financial support from his parents. Mexicans do not have this. Someone attempting to pay for school out of pocket and feed themselves on the minimal work an immigrant is allowed simply couldn’t do it. So these economic refugees simply CAN NOT, despite their best efforts, please an immigration department that hates them for being unskilled and Mexican. I was contrasting my ex-boyfriend, who had every advantage (spoke English, financially supported) and followed every law and still was unable to obtain a greencard, with those Mexican immigrants that have no advantages at all.
Please don’t insult me, Jasper. I’m a very sweet girl.
I’ll share a story. My ex was from the middle east. He had a lot of nerve to say to me “You Americans are lazy.” “You don’t earn your degrees.” “Your parents pay for you.”…….I almost spilled my cookies. I reminded him that it was MY TAX DOLLARS as well as other Americans who were putting his unemployed ass through med. school! Thinking about that comment really pi$$es me off!!…glad to be rid of him!
“Please don’t insult me, Jasper. I’m a very sweet girl.”
I’m very sorry about that Jacqueline, I know you are nice and very intelligent too. Sometimes these immigration debates can get heated. I actually was for Bush/McCain plan.. I just don’t think we do a service either when people have to enter a country crossing a desert and hopping fences, it needs to be handled in a more orderly fashion.
Incidentally, the bum impregnated 2 females before he flew back to his country. Both had abortions. This happened prior to us meeting.
many of them are filling up our prisons, don’t pay any taxes, killing our health-care system, not assimilating or trying to learn english, consistantly breaking the law, looking for handouts, flying the mexican flag, shouting “Obama! Obama!” at soccer games, hurting the school system, taking away jobs from law abiding citizens. not to mention that they would virtually all be voting for pro-abort Democrats ….
I can’t begin to defend the characters of millions of people I do not know, and I’m sure that there are thugs among any large group of people, but how is this paragraph not definition of racism and bigotry? You speak from privilege. You’ve never stood out in front of a 7-11 for 10 hours hoping that someone will give you an odd job and pay you next to nothing. Have a heart.
I’ll break it down:
many of them are filling up our prisons
Substantiate this.
don’t pay any taxes
Many would gladly pay taxes in exchange for the legal right to work and not live in fear of deportation and their family’s starvation. They are not given this option.
killing our health-care system
If you were a Mexican mother, and you knew that your child had a better chance at living if you crossed the border illegally and birthed him/her in America, you wouldn’t? I would! I can’t lie. I would.
not assimilating or trying to learn english
The ESL classes in Dallas are overflowing. The classes we offer here at my work at full to the max with people trying to learn English. And by the way, when you’re standing out in front of the 7-11 for 10 hours a day hoping for the chance to earn a few dollars for lunch, you don’t have an abundance of time to spend on attended ESL classes.
Furthermore, assimilation is another word for “white washed.” If they don’t drop their cultural identity and assume the white American way, this is a bad thing?
consistantly breaking the law
More than impoverished native-born Americans do? Please substantiate.
looking for handouts
Most Mexicans are laborers, day-laborers not panhandlers like our good ole American-born homeless downtown. They earn their money, not beg for it.
flying the mexican flag
Pride in your heritage is a bad thing? My father displays our Scottish family crest. I’m not offended. We’re not at war with Mexico, they aren’t inciting mutiny, so let them wave their flag. Why does this bother you?
shouting “Obama! Obama!” at soccer games
What?
hurting the school system
How? The American school system has been producing subliterates for years. That’s why I dropped out of public school. Immigration is not the reason why our education system is so poor.
taking away jobs from law abiding citizens
I quote PIP, “It’s never consistant to recommend throwing illegal immigrants to the dogs, saying, “they are stealing our jobs!” while supporting large corporations outsourcing your jobs for pennies.” Nicely put, PIP. The day-labor is not something you see the “law-abiding citizens” lining up to do, now is it?
not to mention that they would virtually all be voting for pro-abort Democrats
Whose suggesting arbitrarily offering the right to vote. I suggest the right to work and pass across borders freely.
Personally, I don’t know why we don’t just buy Mexico. Imagine the opportunities for the likes of Donald Trump…all that ocean front property…resorts that need to be built, and people to work at them…Heck, one day they might be complaining that we’re all migrating there! Lord knows the weather is better!
I’m very sorry about that Jacqueline, I know you are nice and very intelligent too.
Thanks. I try to be.
Sometimes these immigration debates can get heated.
This is actually my first. I must admit I’m surprised at how heated it has become. I know why I’m passionate about this, but I don’t see why folks on your side are. I know I’ve never been denied an education, a job, anything because a Mexican immigrant had it.
Likewise, I have been denied grants for college because the pot-smoking kids whose parents made less money and paid no taxes were given those grants (which they spent on pot). Now I work and pay their share of taxes and am 45k in the hole- while they’re still uneducated potheads. This is one reason why I think the “distribution” of income taxes needs to change.
I just don’t think we do a service either when people have to enter a country crossing a desert and hopping fences, it needs to be handled in a more orderly fashion.
I agree. Furthermore, you don’t try to mop up a wet floor with the faucet still leaking. You fix the faucet. So all the brou-ha-ha about stopping immigrants sucking our resources when we have so many coming in is ridiculous. Either fix the problem to accommodate the influx or stop the influx altogether. I’m for accomodating the influx.
*sigh* I’ve got to break. I need to stick to the abortion topic. That is one mistake in my life that still makes me physically ill. If I only knew then what I know now. *I feel like throwing up.*
I think a vast majority of politicians are slimey bastards, Democrat and Republican alike.
Cheers to that, Jackie. That’s why I won’t be voting in the primaries–I don’t want to have to identify myself with either party.
Jill, I just wanted to say that that’s a very interesting poll question. I’m actually surprised at how many people would absolutely not ever date someone on the opposite side of the table.
Leah, before coming to this site, I would have been more open to the idea of dating somone “on the opposite side of the table.” In fact, I had a very serious girlfriend in College who was “personally anti-abortion but pro-choice (maybe that doesn’t count). However, I have learned here that for many, it’s part of a complete worldview that I find disturbing. I could probably date a pro-life person as long as they were not anti-gay rights, anti-premaritial sex, religious, etc.
I’m sure they’re out there, but not too many.
“You speak from privilege. You’ve never stood out in front of a 7-11 for 10 hours hoping that someone will give you an odd job and pay you next to nothing. Have a heart.”
How do you know what I’ve done?….I do have a heart. My friend from HS was stabbed 3 times in the chest and killed by an illegal from Mexico who had been arrested and released numerous times instead of deported because of polically correct laws. I grew up in a city with an overwhelming number of illegals and know plenty for friends who lost jobs because of them working for dirt cheap under the table (breaking the law)
“many of them are filling up our prisons
Substantiate this.”
Citing an Urban Institute study, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2005: “Roughly 20 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That’s a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population
“don’t pay any taxes
Many would gladly pay taxes in exchange for the legal right to work and not live in fear of deportation and their family’s starvation. They are not given this option. ”
They are not given the option because they are criminals who broke the law.
shouting “Obama! Obama!” at soccer games:
here you go….
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/2004-02-12-notebook-mexicans-crowd_x.htm
“I could probably date a pro-life person as long as they were not anti-gay rights, anti-premaritial sex, religious, etc.”
Hi, Hal. *wink*
Actually, that wasn’t Obama they were shouting, it was Osama….
“Nicely put, PIP.”
Thanks! You have some very good points yourself!
Actually, that wasn’t Obama they were shouting, it was Osama….
Posted by: jasper at September 6, 2007 2:21 PM
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The morons involved in that incident were Mexican nationals, and it occured in Mexico.
It doesn’t have anything to do with illegal aliens.
“It doesn’t have anything to do with illegal aliens.”
….no, of course not.
For one thing, these weren’t illegal immigrants, the game was played in Guadalajara so they were Mexico residing Mexicans-nothing illegal about that.
Secondly, sports fans, especially soccer fans, get very heated and say and do some crazy stuff during a game. Chanting “Osama” is relatively tame to some stuff I’ve heard.
Ah, you beat me to it, Laura
Oh, okay. They were shouting OSama, OSama! Those weren’t illegal aliens. Those were Mexicans in Mexico. Do you just have a problem with Mexicans in general?
And that’s a FEDERAL prison. Federal prisons only hold people for Federal crimes- like illegal immigration and terrorism. So that’s why the number is disproportionate. A city, county, or state jail would likely find the ethnic breakdown to be similar to the demographics.
How do you know what I’ve done?….I do have a heart. My friend from HS was stabbed 3 times in the chest and killed by an illegal from Mexico who had been arrested and released numerous times instead of deported because of polically correct laws.
My sincerest condolences- but the horrific deeds of one doesn’t justify stereotyping a whole population. If the murderer had been white, I doubt you’d condemn all white people.
I grew up in a city with an overwhelming number of illegals and know plenty for friends who lost jobs because of them working for dirt cheap under the table (breaking the law).
This is only because oppressive immigration laws won’t let people work on top of the table. I’m a Texas girl, surrounded by an overwhelming number of illegal aliens myself, and I can assure you that these jobs taken by illegals are not skilled jobs that Americans typically do. Unless your friends are construction work foremen who are being underbid by companies hiring illegals and paying them peanuts, there’s not much competition. Even so, this is the system, not the people.
And while we’re on this topic, those illegals working for dirt cheap is an exploitation of them-since they would work for a fair wage if they were able to work legally. If they could work legally, they’d be entitled to minimum wage. So it seems like some want to keep them oppressed and reap the financial rewards.
They are not given the option because they are criminals who broke the law
Only because they law makes them so. If you working any job that feeds your family became illegal, I doubt you’d let them starve as to avoid being a “criminal that broke the law.” Give them opportunities not to be criminals!
And when I said “Have a heart,” I meant, “Put yourself in their shoes” for just a moment. Imagine you weren’t born American, imagine you were born a Mexican. You work a mom and pop shop to support your wife and kids. Then Walmart moves in. You are forced to work for them for next to nothing if you get to work at all. You see that crossing the border means that you could earn slightly more, but that more means the difference between nourished or malnourished children. What would you do?
You fail to acknowledge that not everyone was as blessed as we were to born American. We’re no better than those less fortunate than we- and furthermore we have a moral obligation to lend a hand.
I dislike it when people believe being patriotic means thinking everyone else is inferior because they weren’t born in your country.
“Do you just have a problem with Mexicans in general?”
No Jackie (if I can call you Jackie, love that name btw) I don’t. My 2 friends from work Edwin and Jose are from Guatemala and Mexico….
“You fail to acknowledge that not everyone was as blessed as we were to born American. We’re no better than those less fortunate than we- and furthermore we have a moral obligation to lend a hand.”
Ok, and we do lend a hand:
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43755
“I dislike it when people believe being patriotic means thinking everyone else is inferior because they weren’t born in your country.”
By asking people to follow the law? means I think illegals are inferior?
Jasper,
wouldn’t you say that forcing Muslims to have a separate lines at airports is a manifestation of feeling of cultural superiority?
“wouldn’t you say that forcing Muslims to have a separate lines at airports is a manifestation of feeling of cultural superiority?”
No, I would say it’s a matter of safety, and a good idea.
here you go PIP, just yesterday. The religon of peace tried to srike again.
Leah, 2:08p, said: “Jill, I just wanted to say that that’s a very interesting poll question. I’m actually surprised at how many people would absolutely not ever date someone on the opposite side of the table.”
Thanks, Leah. This may lead to a follow-up poll question, because my thought is most of the people saying that are pro-life.
You’re on the other side, so you don’t understand how incredibly repugnant both my daughter and I would find the thought of her dating someone who would be ok with – or encourage her to – kill their baby.
Hal is right. The pro-life position is usually just one compartment of an entire worldview. There is just nothing in common between the two.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=480021&in_page_id=1811
No Jackie (if I can call you Jackie, love that name btw)
Sure- but I spell it Jacque. I know it’s pretentious and phonetically incorrect, but there were so many Jackie’s growing up, it helped sort us out. :)
My 2 friends from work Edwin and Jose are from Guatemala and Mexico….
Are you from Texas, by chance?
Ok, and we do lend a hand:
There’s a difference between the Samaritan’s donkey and the government’s donkey. Lending a hand is taking the sojourners, the stranger on your donkey and caring for him with one’s own time and money. The government donkey is b!tching about the county hospitals treating a illegal who just suffered car accident rather than letting her die, because of the costs. You can b!tch all you want, but don’t take credit for lending a hand when you are not lending a hand by choice. In fact, the crux of your argument is they should get nothing- so show some consistency here.
Heh, jasper, keep clinging to the raft..it might be deflating soon, though.
“Are you from Texas, by chance?”
No, I’m from Massachusetts. A santuary state for illegals, all benefits granted.
“There’s a difference between the Samaritan’s donkey and the government’s donkey.”
WHO DO YOU THINK PAYS FOR THE GOVERNMENTS DONKEY!!
again, do me favor, don’t make assumptions about me when you really don’t know me or what I contribute.
WHO DO YOU THINK PAYS FOR THE GOVERNMENTS DONKEY!
And hence why you feel justified to complain. But complaining about compulsory aid that you wouldn’t give if it weren’t extorted from you does not count as charity towards downtrodden Mexican immigrants. So there are two distinct donkeys, here.
That’s like me saying, “I give to the needy. I pay taxes. That goes to welfare! DAMN WELFARE RECIPIENTS!”
Do you see the contradiction?
Jasper,
While I have no argument with you on the safety issue and the danger of radical islamists, it doesn’t help that 2 of the guys in that post were Germans…who converted to Islam. Probably blond and blue eyed. Which only means that putting Muslims in a separate line wouldn’t have solved anything, cuz these two would have walked right through.
However, the majority of Islamic terrorists caught so far have been of Arab decent. What’s scary is the that this is a religious war, and that means that as it spreads, less people will be of Arab decent and harder to spot…what to do, what to do?
I find it interesting how people can argue about how unequitable income tax is (The top 50% of wages earners pay over 97% of the taxes) and then complain about that it’s their money spent on welfare.
Jasper, unless you’re in the top 50% of wage earners, I doubt even a fraction of a cent goes toward illegal immigrants. So you don’t have a thing to worry about!
MK-
That’s the whole problem. If we put such a policy in place, they will only recruit people from other races and background to become terrorists–while leaving legitimate Arabs and Muslims to become somewhat dehumanized. Further dehumanizing is the idea that a card-carrying system will help matters when it will only antagonize true followers of Islam.
Hence why it is a racist policy.
I can’t help but think of how scared we were of the Japanese during World War II–and we look back at our policies and find them horrifying (at least, I did).
We shouldn’t make the same mistake twice.
“And hence why you feel justified to complain. But complaining about compulsory aid that you wouldn’t give if it weren’t extorted from you does not count as charity towards downtrodden Mexican immigrants”
again, you’re making assumptions about who I would give charity too. I have no problem giving charity or taxes to Mexican immigrants, not illegals who break the law.
..good point MK.
I think a vast majority of politicians are slimey bastards, Democrat and Republican alike.”
Leah: Cheers to that, Jackie. That’s why I won’t be voting in the primaries–I don’t want to have to identify myself with either party.
Right on – at the national level, politicians of both parties have already sold themselves eight crillion times. In at least one way, our system is a bad, sak joke.
Doug
I just wish 3rd parties would actually have a place in the elections. If you ask me the two-party system is just making it very comfortable for them, which is why they are all slimeballs.
“I think a vast majority of politicians are slimey bastards, Democrat and Republican alike.”
I don’t think so, this is a highly cynical and ignorant statement. While there are some corrupt politicians, alot of them give up much higher paying jobs in the private sector so they can do public service.
So…I got a new website.
http://noidlebread.blogspot.com/
I’m still waiting on google to fix my pro-life site, but this one is about me and my er…lack of skill as a homemaker. I hope that it will eventually be a community of support, but right now it’s just my AAesqe statement of idleness.
Sorry to “plug” myself, but I would love input from you guys.
Hillary running for president presents a real dilemma. We have always had a “President and First Lady”. If Hillary is elected, how will a female president and her husband be addressed?
In this case, I think “President and First Flasher” would be very appropriate.
President and First Man? First Gentleman?
Who cares. I don’t like Hillary, but I think it’s time we have a minority/woman leader. We are one of the few (if not the only?) developed countries who hasn’t had one yet.
OH, before people jump on me, I’m not saying that I think we should vote for them regardless of the issues, quite the contrary.
I just think all these discussions on “Is America ready for a black president?” or “But what would happen if the President is a woman?”
The water’s fine. It will be okay. It’s not like we are electing Snoop Dogg or Paris Hilton.
PIP,
I’m afraid I would never consider Bill Clinton any kind of a gentleman. I will never deny though that he is a master politician and that he and his wife are two peas in a pod.
Also, I would support a well qualified candidate with no regard to race, gender, or ethnicity.
Oh, jasper. And here I was thinking that we were making some progress regarding you being a person who recognized the humanity of people who think differently from you. I’m sad now.
I once got invited to a facebook group called “It doesn’t say RSVP on the Statue of Liberty” I thought it was a brilliant name.
We’re a nation made up almost entirely of people who at some point had come here from another country to make a better life for themselves. The ability to earn a better living and have a better quality of life is what makes America “great”.
Here’s the poem inscribed on the Statue of Liberty:
“Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
How can we just up and decide, “this doesn’t apply anymore”?
PIP – agreed on the third parties. Myself, I’d like to see the Libertarians have a chance, but I suspect it will take some major “bad times” before the two-party stranglehold is broken.
Doug
Doug–
Absolutely. I’m not a Libertarian, but it seems to me that they tend to just vote Republican as a lesser-than-two-evils kind of thing without agreement on real issues. I think they deserve their own party. Am I on the mark, there? This is just an outsider’s view.
Also, I don’t know if you and I agree on this, but I think we need to get rid of the electoral college. There is no reason to have them anymore. Let’s have everyone count for one vote!
Mary,
Good to know :)
I wasn’t really addressing that to you in particular, just venting on the sentiments I hear nowadays. You hear it on the news too, I’m sure.
“OMG what do people think of Obama being black? What is his middle name? Well then, I’M not voting for him!”
“I just don’t think women are capable of being President. The only reason Hillary has a chance is because she’s so manly.”
I seriously hear this shinola on a day to day basis.
I do think that Bill C. has personal problems, but that he led the country reasonably well (and was practically a saint compared to this absurd administration). He is also very well-informed and articulate! And now he’s spending time doing some charity work and stuff. But I don’t think any of us know much about his personal problems (except those close to him), so most of my judgements are made on his political life, something public.
“Oh, jasper. And here I was thinking that we were making some progress regarding you being a person who recognized the humanity of people who think differently from you.”
Erin, what? How am I not recognizing the humanity of people.
Jasper-
I think Erin might be referring to you calling me ignorant since I have little faith in policitians that are admitted adulterers, and those that troll for gay sex in airport restrooms.
Oh, and let’s look at Congress, shall we:
Of the 535 members:
29 have been accused of spousal abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
19 have been accused of writing bad checks
117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3 have done time for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year
So I guess my mistrust in politicians is completely misplaced!
PIP,
I agree with you about the shinola. Obama “isn’t black enough”, Hillary is showing cleavage. Like you, I consider it all totally absurd.
I’m afraid we will have to agree to disagree on the two administrations. I think BC was corrupt but given a free pass. As I said, the man is a master politician and could sell firewood to the devil. So was Hitler. He was idolized by millions, and still is. Germans fondly recalled the “good” he did as well.
I understand BC was talking to a congressman about our troops in Bosnia while Monica was, shall we say, attending to his other needs. This was confirmed by both Monica and the congressman, who admitted he was “aghast”. This shows the degree of respect BC had for our troops. The man is a sex offender, several women have accused him of everything from exposing himself to rape. “Personal problems” like this would have gotten any other man thrown in the slammer. I know he was never convicted, but do you honestly think he would be? When different women accuse the same man, a red flag goes up for me. Do you personally know men accused of multiple sex offenses?
Because of this I view him as nothing but a degenerate, and I don’t care how much “good” he does. Al Capone fed thousands of people during the Great Depression, that didn’t make him any less of a thug. He also had his share of admireres, and still does.
I view Hillary as every bit as slimey as him, they need and feed off each other. Like the Kennedys, for whom I also have little respect, she will obtain the power she craves because of her name.
jasper- your ability to generalize entire races and parties distresses me.
Oh Jaqueline,
I was looking for that…thanks!
Of the 535 members:
29 have been accused of spousal abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
19 have been accused of writing bad checks
117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3 have done time for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year
Jacqueline,
I don’t believe your stats, need a source.
Erin: “jasper- your ability to generalize entire races and parties distresses me.”
BECAUSE I’M AGAINST ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION MEANS I GENERALIZE AN ENTIRE RACE??????????????
WHAT CAN’T YOU GET THROUGH YOUR SKULLS? THIS IS ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, YOU KNOW, BREAKING THE LAW. HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IF I SUPPORTED AND ENCOURAGED ABORTION-MILL BOMBERS??????? WHAT THE HECK, THE LAW DOESN’T MATTER, PLUS THEIR ONLY TRYING SAVE BABIES FROM BEING HACKED INTO PIECES, WHERE’S THE HUMANITY?
Not weighing in on one side or the other, but here is what “Snopes” has to say about that Congress post…
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/congress.asp
I wish that there was some way that more immigrants could enter the country “legally”…I have 2 friends that are here under dubious circumstances and it breaks my heart.
And yet, I have to agree with Jasper, that it is unfair, at the very least, the the multitudes of people that are on waiting lists to enter this country legally and are being penalized because the illegals have filled the “quota”…
I offer no solution, as I have none. But I am torn by sentiments for either side.
I do think that whatever “legal” program has been set up should be followed tho. Otherwise, people that “deserve” to be here because they followed protocol are not being let in.
I certainly don’t want to punish those that are here illegally, because the circumstances that bring them here are heartwrenching. Many of them have left their wives and children to come to a cold unwelcoming land, just to be able to send their children to decent schools and feed them. They are quite literally, risking everything, by breaking the law to be here. In one way it’s cowardice and in another it’s extreme bravery. I can’t imagine what I would or would not to to keep my family safe…
I also can’t imagine what it would be like to live anywhere but the US. To wake up every day and wonder, will my children eat today? Will we be shot to death before the sun sets? Will we find fresh water?
And lastly, it just goes to prove what I know we all believe…this is the greatest country on earth, and it’s a great compliment that so many people want or need to seek refuge here. We shouldn’t be so hard on ourselves. For the most part, we do and always will continue to welcome the foreigner and the lost into our “home”…but I have to agree with Jasper, that it should be done in a way that is fair to everyone…US citizens and those waiting to legally enter alike.
What to do, what to do!
Jasper,
First of all, Ixnay on the ApsCa. It’s like you’re screaming. It’s also an offense to nettiquite.
You say illegal immigrants but your examples are clearly anti-Mexican (both in America and in Mexico). You’ve made some nasty statements about them in general with a caveat that some are good. You quote the cliche comeback “I’m not racist. Some of my best friends are Mexican” while disparaging the needy who come here to work. While I don’t know why you’re offended that we don’t share your hatred for Mexican illegals, your racism clearly offends us. Sure, these people are breaking the law by working to survive-Let’s change the law.
Speaking of offenses, I cheerfully withdraw my personal slam on politicians as that impugns those politicians out there that may actually be decent people.
Mary, excellent post on Billary Clintion!! I agree 100%!!
MK,
While I’m sympathetic to those who only want to support a family, we have to keep in mind the easy access the criminal element has as well. Who do you think comprises some of the most dangerous gangs we see? Right, illegal aliens.
Also, hospitals have been put out of business treating illegal aliens who come here for the free and top notch medical care they will receive.
I would like to point out too that Mexico is less than charitable to those illegal immigrants south of them who cross the border into Mexico. Also, MK, even if you were a legal immigrant to Mexico, there are certain rights you would be denied that a natural born Mexican citizen enjoys.
It’s funny, but I have to keep reminding myself that many of the immigrants we are talking about are from Mexico…The ones I know are from the Philippines and Poland…
I keep tellin’ ya…we need to buy Mexico!
“While I don’t know why you’re offended that we don’t share your hatred for Mexican illegals, your racism clearly offends us.”
AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
…it’s like Lucy driving Charlie Brown nuts
MK,
In my city, we have large immigrant communities from Mexico, Laos, Russia, the Ukraine, and Poland. I have no issue at all with people here legally.
The biggest illegal problem is from Mexico and its bankrupting us. Its also grossly unfair to those who jumped through all the legal hoops to get here. That is what I have a very serious issue with.
Jasper, I understand your frustration. This is NOT a racial issue. Please, let’s address the issue of illegal immigration and the problems it is causing this country and quit crying “racism”.
Heather,
Thank you.
Mary, LOL @ the Bill Clinton/flasher comment. Didn’t you say that feminists were all too willing to call it “propositioning?” LOL again! Bill Clinton once remarked “My wife has been with more women than I have.” I must agree, they deserve each other.
Heather,
I recall it was the media that referred to it as “propositioning”. It was feminists who turned a blind eye to his antics and said nothing when the women accusing Clinton were so viciously attacked and ridiculed.
I understand Paula Jones very naively thought the feminists would support her when she accused Clinton. She was obviously unaware that the feminist agenda, not women, is what matters to the feminists.
*small grin*
Clinton screwed an intern, Bush screwed an entire nation.
Erin,
Don’t you recall he didn’t have sex with that woman… Miss Lewinsky?
Mary, he didn’t have an 11 year relationship with Gennifer Flowers either. Uh huh!
Mary,
Its also grossly unfair to those who jumped through all the legal hoops to get here. That is what I have a very serious issue with.
I agree, that’s what I said in my last post…as well as the ones waiting to come, but can’t cuz there’s no room at the inn due to all the illegals.
MK,
How true. And they wanted to give illegals amnesty, thus rewarding them for their illegal entry and encouraging even more.
Heather,
He said he had sex with her only once in 11 years. That must have been one very patient, and frustrated, mistress.
Mary, sure he did, and she also became pregnant after 1 time. Possible but questionable. *raises eyebrows*
Bill Clinton once remarked “My wife has been with more women than I have.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Funny, I can’t find that quote anywhere.
Care to cite your source?
Laura, I will dig for it. Gotta sign off for now. I swear, I did hear it. I’ll see everyone tomorrow..work calls.
You fail to acknowledge that not everyone was as blessed as we were to born American. We’re no better than those less fortunate than we- and furthermore we have a moral obligation to lend a hand.
Jacqueline, I was born in America. My mom was born in America. My grandfather, however, was not. When he came through Ellis Island in 1907 on the Santa Georgio from a little town in Italy called Grotte Di Castro, he had a sponsor over here who would look after him, help him find work, and should he not be able to work, would support him.
My grandfather wanted to be an American. Not an Italian-American, or any other hyphenated American, he wanted to be American. He learned English (not very well, even at the end of his life) but his children did, and hopefully you can see that one of his grandchildren did also.
He was termed a WOP (which stood for “With Out Papers”) even though he had his papers. He worked hard, bought himself a home, his son fought in WWII as a tailgunner in the Pacific theater.
His children assimilated into the American culture, and they are indistinguishable from other Americans.
The illegal aliens are truly the new WOPs. The difference is that they did not go through the system, were not checked for criminal records, and were not screened for diseases. They don’t have anyone here (that we know about) helping them assimilate, and as a point of fact, judging from the protests, they have no wish to become Americans. They prefer to be Mexicans who take advantage of the system by working for what we consider peanuts, but must be worth risking your life crossing the border to get.
So I have a soft spot in my heart for people from other countries wishing to be American and to have a chance at the American dream. Who I have a real hard spot in my heart for are those who want to take advantage of us and those who want to kill us who are crossing our porous borders.
We don’t need a “comprehensive” immigration plan. What we need are specific concrete steps, the subsequent ones dependent on the success of the previous ones.
#1. Secure our borders. A double fence with dog patrols and guards with orders to detain those trying to cross and if they escape into the US to shoot them.
#2 Once #1 happens, deport all arrested for crimes starting with the dangerous felons. I’m not talking about conviction. These people do not have due process. If they are caught, send them back. This includes all of those working with fake SS#’s (identity theft).
#3 Once #1 and #2 happen, we think about what to do with those people who are here and wish to become citizens. We get a chance to “try them before we buy them” and we get to keep the best ones.
I’m sure there are millions of good, hard working, aliens who want desperately to become citizens. These people should be learning English, they should be making sure their kids learn English and instill in them the American drive to succeed.
Hillary running for president presents a real dilemma. We have always had a “President and First Lady”. If Hillary is elected, how will a female president and her husband be addressed?
Also all of the language in the Constitution referring to the President uses the pronoun “he”.
Hillary might be unconstitutional. ;)
Oh, and let’s look at Congress, shall we:
Of the 535 members:
29 have been accused of spousal abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
19 have been accused of writing bad checks
117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3 have done time for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year
Urban Legend
This silly thing has been going around for years.
COME ON – over 15% arrested for drunk drivinng in the last year?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/congress.asp