China’s one-child ad campaign updated
China Daily reported October 11 and 12 that the government’s kindler, gentler ads promoting its forced one-child per family policy have replaced 76% of its hard sell ads since late July. (76?)
CD reported the minister of commission thought the previous “vulgar and harsh” slogans “stoked great anger among the public and probably led to misunderstanding and even objection to the national policy.”
But I thought they were actually quite catchy, like the one pictured left, courtesy of Laogai Research Foundation, which reads in English, “Those who refuse to use birth control, have a ligation, and pay the extra birth fine will be severely punished.”
Here are a few other “coarse” ads disappearing from the Chinese landscape….
“Popularize the First Child, Control the Second Child, Prohibit the Third Child” “Houses toppled, cows confiscated if abortion demand rejected” “One more baby means one more tomb”
And my favorite:
“Raise fewer babies but more piggies”
According to CD:
The new slogans include “healthy childbearing”, “reproductive health”, “rearing better children”, “care for girls”, “male health” and “aging population”, and the wording focuses on expressions like “love”, “health”, “life” and “happiness” in more amiable slogans such as “The mother earth is too tired to sustain more children” and “Both boys and girls are in parents’ hearts”.
For instance, the caption of the billboard pictured right, courtesy of Wikipedia, reads in English, “Sweet achievement.”
CD again:
National Population and Family Planning Commission described the new posters as more “reader-friendly, color printed, bearing both photos and words, and are more civilized and human-oriented”.
It will be laudable if China can convince couples enduring stiff penalties, ostracization, forced abortion, and infanticide (mostly of little girls) if they become pregnant with a second child that its program is “civilized and human-oriented.”
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
They can dress it up any way they like, but it isn’t going to change the fact that they support killing their children. The disdain many show for large families in our country along with the similarities between China’s “new slogans” and the good ‘ol PP standards make me think that the US isn’t too disimilar in our thinking about children.
Sounds like China has been taking lessons from Planned Parenthood’s PR campaigns.
there is a big difference between “disdain” for large families in our country(which I agree with) and what China has done. I’m no China expert, but if that country really has “stiff penalties, ostracization, forced abortion, and infanticide (mostly of little girls).” there is no defense for those policies.
Hal,
You dislike large families? I know it’s not your cup of tea, but do you disdain it for the rest of Americans?
If so, why?
Ugly fact #2 about the Chinese system?
It works.
In two generations they’ve become an economic powerehouse. They’ve drawn millions of manufacturing jobs out of this country. We are in debt to the Chinese to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.
Look at virtually every economically successful country on the planet, and you’ll see a country that reproduces at or below relacement level.
They’ve drawn millions of manufacturing jobs out of this country.
Posted by: Laura at October 15, 2007 7:13 PM
Are you really that ignorant or do you just pretend on this blog? Companies manufacture things there because 1. the labor is cheap 2. they don’t regulate products like they do in the USA. Haven’t you been listening to the news of all the recalled products?
China is certainly not “Pro-Choice,” and too bad for the people that want more than one kid.
But they felt they had to do something….
Doug
All those pro-aborts who might be nearing retirement age (and we all will at some point of our lives), just remember that Social Security won’t be there for you if we keep up the killing of our babies. When Social Security went into effect, there were 44 workers to every 1 person on Social Security. Now as of this date, according to the news on ABC, there are 3 workers for every retired person. Gosh, I wonder how many of the babies aborted over the past 34+ years would have worked and paid in to the Social Security system. Wow!! Isn’t choice grand?!
Laura,
You wrote
“Ugly fact #2 about the Chinese system?
It works.”
Another ugly fact.
Imagine going from 4 or 5 workers per retiree to 0 .5 workers per retiree.
What will that do to per capita GDP?
I can tell you that is not what you call an economic powerhouse.
I guess that those who were forced to have only one child will be forced into euthanasia.
Ask any economist about the future of any country whose birthrate is well below replacement rate and whose life expectancy is increasing and you will see some cringing.
Laura,
It works.”
Define works.
Do you honestly judge families, countries, people, by their economic standing? At any cost? This “works” for you?
This is a repost from the weekend question thread.
I am reposting it because some may be less familiar with how studies are done.
Doug,
Thanx for the post about post abortion mental health.
I will try to find them to read.
I don’t know how all these studies were designed, but I do know that studies based on questionaires tend to be less reliable because people can choose not to participate. Also there is variable selection criteria by the investigator.
The studies I cited had no possible way to opt out. They were based on documented events from the public record: abortion procedures, births and death records.
No one could choose not to participate. Over 170,000 women.
Social sciences are particularlly vulnerable to investigator and subject bias because people speak for themselves.
To overcome such bias the investigator uses measures such as insurance claims for mental and physical health services and public records. It is important to have a large sample and no self selection options. That way the investigator counts everyone whether they want to be counted or not. This improves the quality of the study by controlling the variables.
BTW, many would consider someone who has committed suicide to be a poor mother. For each who actually dies there are others who attempt and fail. I am not making this up. One might say at least some have low self esteem.
I don’t know the ratio of suicide attempts to actual suicides, I think it is safe to assume it must be greater that 1:1 since not every attempt results in death which would be a 1:1 ratio.
Since those who have an abortion are 5-6 times more likely to commit suicide than those who deliver, we have to assume that there is some corresponding number of attempts. Which of course implies that the post abortive woman is also 5-6 times more likely to attempt suicide. Here again we can use our intelligence guided by experience to infer that these are not happy people.
Correlation is not causation, however high levels of correlation certainly beg further investigation.
Posted by: hippie at October 15, 2007 2:27 PM
Here is one study cited by Doug that I was able to actually find.
Sample size: 58 women
Method: interviews and questionaire
Wellbeing and mental growth-long-term effects of legal abortion.
Kero A, H
Hippie,
I am one of those uninformed fools that is awed by every study…thank God for you and Val or I’d buy into the PC side more often than I care to admit.
Scary, how we hear “according to” and buy into it hook line and sinker.
I am learning so much from the two of you.
Doug,
Shame. I thought you were smarter than that. Or at least smarter than me.
Lauren! What happened to Lauren!?!? I don’t have a phone number for Lauren since Lauren moved!
Hal,
You disdain large families.
If I could find some clever little smiley face flipping the bird, I’d add the caption, “Disdain this!”
Margaret Sanger would be proud. When her child found out they were expecting a third child, instead of “Congratulations,” Maggie told them, “You’ve disgraced the family!” Margaret Sanger abhorred large families, even large ARYAN families. I don’t think her concern was the environment, either.
You killed two of your kids, but I will raise all of mine and some other’s kids as well. I pray sincerely that my children will have lots of siblings, nieces and nephews, etc. that they will have and enjoy forever rather than some arbritrary standard of living for only the first 18 years of their lives with electronic gadgets, brand-name clothes and other frivolties that won’t last. I pray my kids will share bedrooms, toys and clothes- learn to live and share the world with others. I pray that my kids will have lots of help in times of trouble after I am long dead, because I gave them lots of siblings.
I was raised with excess. I had everything I wanted growing up- Even a pony. The cliche, “I want a pony.” Yeah, I had one. More than one, actually. I had a vehicle waiting on my 16th birthday. I traveled extensively. When I went out the front door, my mom shoved at least a 20 dollar bill in my pocket. My sister and I did a lot of money-wasting and messing up in college on my father’s dime until they gave up on us and we had to pay for it ourselves. I never wanted for anything. Some would say I was blessed and rich.
My most recent boyfriend was raised in a Catholic family of six children- 3 boys, 3 girls. They made it just fine, but couldn’t afford frivolties. The boys had one bedroom, the girls another. One bathroom to share. They shared clothing. They shared everything. If they wanted something, they got a part-time job and earned it. All of their cars are self purchased. They put themselves through college- quickly with minimal wasted time and money. Now they have many neices and nephews and can count on eachother for help (money issues, a place to stay if needed).
I’d say my boyfriend and his siblings are the truly blessed, truly rich people. What they have lasts forever. What I had expired at age 20.
So this American ideal of separate bedrooms, every kid with a cell phone, an Ipod, 200 dollar sneakers and having only 2.5 kids to support that lavish lifestyle- Parents are doing their children an injustice, not a favor. By far, the best gift you can give your children are more siblings.
So this American ideal of separate bedrooms, every kid with a cell phone, an Ipod, 200 dollar sneakers and having only 2.5 kids to support that lavish lifestyle- Parents are doing their children an injustice, not a favor. By far, the best gift you can give your children are more siblings.
Posted by: Jacqueline at October 16, 2007 9:16 AM
Jacqueline, GREAT post! I also have three boys and three girls and it’s the best! All the boys share a room and I frequently listen outside their door at night and hear the funniest things! My older son making up stories to tell the younger two. Those conversations would never happen if they had their own room or (and more obviously) if they didn’t have siblings.
When we were looking for a house our realtor (who’s a family friend) asked if we were looking for a 4 or 5 bedroom house. I said three because I wanted them to all share. I shared with my sisters (there were 4 girls and 1 boy) and I remember the “parties” we would have at bedtime. Normally we’d sneak up some kind of contraband and stay up eating ice cream or candy or polishing our nails with my mom
Jacqueline,
Are you sure you haven’t already dated my son?
We only had on bathroom. We ate (still eat) our meals together, vacation together, and I can honestly say that we have never “given” any of them a “vehicle”. They pay for their own college (amazing how good their grades got when the bill was being sent to them). Danny, the one I keep auctioning off, lived in a apt. with no hot water, no heat and no electricity for a year. His choice. He also kept the tuna industry in business single handedly.
None of them has ever owned an IPOD. We’ve never had a nintendo. They bought their own cell phones. We bought their first bike, but if they rusted or were stolen due to negligence, they bought the next one themselves. They mowed the lawn, cleaned toilets, did their own laundry and made their own lunches.
Apparently they all enjoyed themselves as they all want large families. They shop at thrift stores, and can make a nickel dance.
I remember one kid in our parish whose parents bought him a brand new car as a reward for making it through rehab!
And another who had never “taken out the garbage” in his life.
We need to find you a man so you can start on that amazing family of yours!
Jacqueline – How old are you? I have a brother who’s 27. He’s dating a very cute Buddhist now – my mother is beating her breast – but she’s living in Australia now. If they break up can I send him your way?
He’s gainfully employed as an accountant and owns his own home. He’s not as strong in the Faith as you but you could work your magic I’m sure! (I saw your picture, very cute!)
It is rather stunning to think that there are 1 billion people who have no idea what it is like to have a brother, a sister, an uncle, an aunt.
What is that going to mean for the future, when all but parental family ties are nonexistent?
And Laura, do you really consider China a success just because they have a booming economy (even though it is not equitably shared – the rich just get richer)? They executed man who was the equivalent to our FDA chief – over a recall of drugs. They run over their young people in the streets with tanks. This is success???
Hal, you may disdain large families, but the greatest inheritance you can leave your child are siblings.
I’m just doing my part to shore up the Social Security system, one taxpayer at a time (as I say on my blog!)
The Bible is true when it says that “Satan appears as an angel of light”.
In the case of the American baby killing industry and propagandist slogans as “Choice”, “Women’s Rights”, and all such similar crap, success has been found in promoting their evil. China has apparently discovered Satan’s way….again.
That is why it is imperative that this evil be combatted with the Sword of the Spirit, the Word of God and take every high minded declaration captive that attempts to exult itself above Christ.
In Jesus Name, may the abortion industry fail and be defeated by the power of God’s Spirit. May his Word be declared throughout all the earth that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Kristen,
I hear you about the shared bedrooms. Our current house has 4 bedrooms – so we have a girls room, a boys room, and a playroom/library! Each bedroom has three people in it (the nursling is still with us at night).
Milehi –
Three boys in the largest, then two girls in a MUCH smaller room, and the oldest girl in a shoebox, I mean 4th bedroom.
Builders today don’t see large families as a demographic and don’t build to suit our needs (i.e. large bedrooms to share.) But on my block alone we have me (6 kids) one with 8 kids, and two with 7 kids. GREAT neighborhood where the kids all go out and play “night games” basically tag and the like, it’s a huge event and all the parents gather to chat.
Jacqeline:
I was the baby of 8. I have 5 kids. All sucessful, blessed and yes the Lord let me prosper them. They had and have it all. That’s the way He intended it from the beginning. So don’t beat yourself up for having a lot of stuff, however, sounds like Christ could have made it more complete. It’s not like you have to have nothing to be happy. Do you think God is poor? It’s having a proper biblical mindset that says, “God first and all these things will be added”.
I’d have 10 more kids if the Lord willed it. I’m looking forward to 20 grandchildren.
Children are a gift from the Lord.
Hal, you’re just one selfish SOB buddy and God is not pleased with your ungodly attitude.
Frankly, males, or should I say, men pretenders like you (you know, the sensitive type), make me puke.
Jacque! My new number is Ok let me figure out a clever way to tell you without sharing it with all of internet land…
Ok it begins with the same area code as my last.
Then 559
Then it’s the first number of the area code + 01 + the last number of the area code.
Got that? What about everyone else lol!
“All those pro-aborts who might be nearing retirement age (and we all will at some point of our lives), just remember that Social Security won’t be there for you if we keep up the killing of our babies.”
That’s a reason to have kids? To support us in our old age? If we didn’t have so many kids, we could save and support ourselves.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m not counting on Social Security.
Hippie you wrote,
“I guess that those who were forced to have only one child will be forced into euthanasia.”
Long before they had the one child policy elderly family members would be euthanized. If their was a famine or some type of disaster and the elderly couldn’t take care of themselves they were out of luck. In an old Chinese legend a grandfather is put into a basket to be drowned in a river because he couldn’t eat without spilling his food and dribbling.
But besides that I don’t think you comprehend how hard it was living even less then a century ago in China. They didn’t have what we had. It was survival of the fittest.
Jeez, I don’t know what you guys are getting so flinchy about. Hal simply said he isn’t a fan of large families. Neither am I. It doesn’t have anything to do with privileges or ‘getting everything they want’. I’m in a family with two kids and I’ve still always had to work to get things I wanted. I still wear certain clothes from 4 years ago. It doesn’t really matter. All we’re saying is that we aren’t fans of big families. Me personally, I don’t care as long as you know, you’re not taking them places you shouldn’t when they’re not properly old enough and such. You choose to have that many kids, there’s going to be somethings you can’t do until they sprout up a little bit. You should’ve known that when you decided to pop them out. *shrugs* Have them if you want, I don’t care. Just don’t sound like you’re a saint just because you had 5 babies and some other person only had 1.
Eh, I really don’t care about whether somebody has 16 kids or 2. As long as the kids are loved and well cared for it really shouldn’t matter how many kids a family has.
I think China’s policies are foolish and they’ll be sorry one day (if they aren’t already due to the lack of females in the population…).
*shrugs*
My parents originally thought they wanted 12 kids. But after 6 miscarriages they were pretty darned happy to have just three. Somebody once told me that my mom was “sick” for continuing to try to get pregnant after all those miscarriages. Meh.
“Hal, you’re just one selfish SOB buddy and God is not pleased with your ungodly attitude.
Frankly, males, or should I say, men pretenders like you (you know, the sensitive type), make me puke.”
Who says I’m “sensitive?” You used to make me puke too old friend, now I simply chuckle.
And God does too love me. He told me I’m his favorite.
“I was the baby of 8. I have 5 kids. All sucessful, blessed and yes the Lord let me prosper them. They had and have it all. That’s the way He intended it from the beginning.”
So wait, if you aren’t able to feed your children or give them what they need God intended for you to be miserable?
And what do you mean, “sensitive men”? Guys who don’t beat up and rape women?
Or do you just mean men who cannot have large families?
Honestly Hisman if you say anything mean to me my boyfriend will beat you up. He’s sensitive and is freakin’ jacked. You wouldn’t want to mess with him.
Jess, Don’t threaten Hisman, he’ll come show you and your boyfriend how tough he is. He’s really, really a tough guy.
My boyfriend is Chinese he knows karate.
hehehehehe
Rae,
“Somebody once told me that my mom was “sick” for continuing to try to get pregnant after all those miscarriages. Meh.”
I think she is quite the opposite, she sound like a wonderful lady with lots of love to go around. Technically she ended up with 9 kids, she just didn’t get to raise 6 of them details, details…
doh! i’m anon. again!
Jess,
you wrote:
Long before they had the one child policy elderly family members would be euthanized. If their was a famine or some type of disaster and the elderly couldn’t take care of themselves they were out of luck. In an old Chinese legend a grandfather is put into a basket to be drowned in a river because he couldn’t eat without spilling his food and dribbling.
But besides that I don’t think you comprehend how hard it was living even less then a century ago in China. They didn’t have what we had. It was survival of the fittest.
Posted by: Jess at October 16, 2007 10:59 AM
I think you make a really great point. People in desperate circumstances do desperate things. I think we don’t really know what it is like to be in their place. I also think China has a lot of resources that could be used more effectively.
Although the Chinese economy is growing faster than ours, their per capita GDP is so small that even huge growth like 10% a year is still far less total increase than even 1% growth in a large economy like ours.
I don’t remember how big their economy is but here is an analogy.
10% of $100 is only $10. While 1% of $1,000,000 is $1,000.
At the rate the Chinese are going, even if they could sustain their growth, they wouldn’t catch up to the larger economies before their familiy planning initiatives catch up to them.
They need lots more economic and human rights reforms to be truly prosperous.
China is adamantly anti choice. Preventing a woman from having a child she wants is as antichoice as compelling her to continue an unwanted pregnancy. But it is ironic that these ‘valued’ male children are now grown men and are having a really tough time finding one of those ‘useless worthless’ Chinese women to marry. Having kids you cant feed and take care of isnt good for anyone. But saying ‘one child only’ is coming back to bite China in the backside.
My mother was one of 9 children. Those 9 children had 21 grandchildren. None of them wanted large families. My ex was one of 7 kids. None of them wanted a large family. There are 9 grandchildren. One brother had 3 daughters – the ‘lets try one more time for a boy’ mentality. Two daughters had one child each. One daughter and one son had no children. People who came from large families often do not choose to have large families themselves.
I kind of envied people with large families. They have a lot of cousins to play with and I have 3. And two siblings. I love my family bunches, but when people say things like ‘I have 15 cousins’ I just go aww that sounds like fun!
I’m in the same boat as Rae…I don’t really mind how many kids anyone has. If you have 0,1,or 15, I’m alright with that, as long as you can provide for the ones you’ve got. Personally, I don’t want anymore than 3. I’m not interested in multiple pregnancies. After that, I’d adopt. But if you want to have 7,8,9,10 kids, GO FOR IT!!
I did have to snicker at a friend of mine who was totally panicked at the thought of having 8 people for Thanksgiving. She had plans and lists and organized it within an inch of its life; after it was over she offered to lend me her “resources”. Um. Well. I cook for nine people every day. And our Thanksgiving is 24 people – and that is immediate family only (parents and sibs/spouses)!
It is a lot of fun! There is always someone to play with.
Hal,
And God does too love me. He told me I’m his favorite.
No way! He told me the same thing!
Rae and Alyssa,
Why are you always here when I’m not! :(
this might be interesting to you guys. I was surprised by the “god forgive me” theme of several of the posts.
http://www.abortionconversation.com/real.php
Hey Hal,
That was interesting.
What struck me was how alone they sounded.
It didn’t sound like any had a partner who was offering to marry them or support them or their child. None seemed to have a man who would “stand by his woman” for better or for worse.
I don’t mean this judgementally, I just wonder why.
yes, I wonder if that’s a representative sample.
Hal,
When I hear someone talk like that, it just makes me wish I were there to give them a hug and tell them that they are so precious and that even though someone else doesn’t love them or want to help, I do. and so many of us do. It makes me so sad. I have to stop typing because I am crying.
Thanks, Kristen. Your kids are very lucky!
You brought back some memories of my childhood. I had my own room, but I was afraid of the dark. So my parents got my sister a double bed and we stayed together, telling stories and drawing pictures on eachother’s backs with our fingernails and guessing what they were. I can’t imagine what I would be missing out on if I didn’t have the one sister I have. I talk to her everyday and have her picture on my desk.
MK,
I love you, btw. :)
Danny, the one I keep auctioning off, lived in a apt. with no hot water, no heat and no electricity for a year. His choice. He also kept the tuna industry in business single handedly.
The more you talk about Danny the more he seems like my kinda guy! When I was in grad school, I kept my electricity for the fridge, but I considered cutting it off. I kept the hot water because baths were my only luxury (I’d buy a used magazine, light some tealights and eat a chocolate bar with some cheap wine while in the tub). If I’d have had a water bill, it would have been quick showers.
I also heated my apt with the electric oven (cheaper than the thermostat) and lived on Ramen. I also discovered that generic box mac-n-cheese, a can of peas, and a can of tuna can make 3 meals for less than a dollar. That’s grad school dining! I’m also quitting my job (I worked this position out of existance) so I can do my Ph.D. full-time, so I know what I’m getting myself back into.
We need to find you a man so you can start on that amazing family of yours!
Right now, I’m just immensely grateful that I haven’t started a family with any of the men in my past. I don’t think I’ve chosen well. Apparently, my love isn’t just blind, it’s deaf and dumb, too.
He’s gainfully employed as an accountant and owns his own home. He’s not as strong in the Faith as you but you could work your magic I’m sure! (I saw your picture, very cute!)
Kristen, you’re precious! Thank you. I’m actually on a 6 month consecrated period of singleness while Jesus purges my heart of some aches and pains. I was supposed to do this 6 month period months ago to get over the man that I thought I’d marry, but I met another amazing man at church who swept me off my feet (and being distracted by romance was a wonderful alternative to pints of ice cream, crying and chickflicks). But now we’ve parted so I can be obedient. I’ll take the compliment, but I’m off the market for a while. :)
I do pray that he ends that relationship- it’s not equally-yoked. And I pray that he gets submitted to his faith so much that he makes a great spiritual leader of his household one day.
Just because a couple has only 1 or 2 kids doesn’t necessarily mean their kids are spoiled brats who get everything that they want. I am the oldest of 2 kids, my sister is 5 years younger. My parents tried to have a child for 10 years before I was born, by the time my sister was born my mom was 35 and said she had no desire for any more.
I had everything I needed growing up, even though my dad was a farmer and my mom worked in the school system as a library assistant (notice these are not white collar yuppie jobs). I was fortunate enough that my parents bought my car when I got my license (a Toyota Corolla), and they help me with the rent on my apartment.
My college education was paid for by my grandfather, an only child, who grew up during the Depression and because of it was a grand pincher of pennies and was able to leave his 4 grandchildren $25,000 a piece, after a lifetime of farmer’s wages.
My sister and I get along just fine, just the two of us, and so do my mom and her one sister, and my dad and his one sister.
My point is that some people just don’t lack anything from not having a large family, people are not better or worse based on how many kids they have. Children can have friends outside of their siblings so they don’t lack for friendship if they only have 1 brother or one sister. Some people stop after one or two kids because it is their preference, or they know they probably wouldn’t be able to support their kids if they had anymore.
If you like big families, and you are willing and able to take care of/support a bunch of people, that’s great. You can have 17 kids and have all their names start with the same letter of the alphabet and as long as you are able to care for them I would say “right on, good for you!”
Jacque! You deserve an Oliver…but you can’t have mine!
HisMan,
It’s not like you have to have nothing to be happy. Do you think God is poor? It’s having a proper biblical mindset that says, “God first and all these things will be added”.
I’m not ungrateful. I’m just saying that I recognize a difference between good things and better things. I had good things but more siblings would have been better. I am immensely grateful for the sibling I have, all the experiences I was afforded (travel for one) and everything else I was given. My point is that I intend to give my children siblings because I see them as priceless.
When I hear an American who drives a Lexus tell me that they are getting themselves or their wives “fixed” –like a puppy (and by the way, it’s hard to fix something that ain’t broke. So they should probably call it getting “broken”, but I digress)- when they say they are going to stop having kids at 2 because of money, I see lifestyles that can be cut to afford for eternal gifts. I also mourn for those children because they’ll have 18 years of comforts- but that’s it. I’ll take having siblings for the rest of my life over having video games anyday.
Its unfair to say that a small family will stop caring about each other after the kids grow up. And its extremely unfair to accuse people with only 1 or 2 kids of only “buying” their children’s love. If that was your situation, I’m sorry to hear about it, but don’t think that is the norm.
China is adamantly anti choice. Preventing a woman from having a child she wants is as antichoice as compelling her to continue an unwanted pregnancy. But it is ironic that these ‘valued’ male children are now grown men and are having a really tough time finding one of those ‘useless worthless’ Chinese women to marry. Having kids you cant feed and take care of isnt good for anyone. But saying ‘one child only’ is coming back to bite China in the backside.
Posted by: TexasRed at October 16, 2007 12:58 PM
………………………………………………………
Actually it seems to be a boon to Chinese women. Fewer women creates higher demand and more perceived value of available women.
Lauren. Is the middle number of your old zipcode an 8, because I’m not getting an answer…
Its unfair to say that a small family will stop caring about each other after the kids grow up. And its extremely unfair to accuse people with only 1 or 2 kids of only “buying” their children’s love. If that was your situation, I’m sorry to hear about it, but don’t think that is the norm.
I implied none of the above. Am I missing that somewhere?
I have a happy, intact, but small family. We love eachother muchly. It’s because of this that I wish there were more of us. And we have gotten even closer since we’ve grown up. I was home this past weekend and so was my sister. I slept in my grandmothers “suite,” which is my parent’s garage converted into an apartment. We had a great time.
My folks didn’t buy my love. They had money, and since they loved us, they shared it with us.
I do lament my godsister that had only one brother who died young in a car accident. She was left alone to care for her aging parents and hangs around with my sister and I so much because she says, “There is something to being with someone that you grew up with and has known you your whole life.” I agree.
I know I don’t think small families buy love or dissipate with age. I just think that siblings are priceless, eternal gifts that are worth more than anything childhood luxuries.
Okay, but from some of your earlier posts I thought you were implying that your parents gave you and your sister everything you wanted but cut you off at a certain age and dropped you like a bad habit.
You said this:
“I’d say my boyfriend and his siblings are the truly blessed, truly rich people. What they have lasts forever. What I had expired at age 20.”
It kind of sounded like to me that you didn’t think you had a close relationship with your family because you didn’t have bunches of brothers and sisters, and you didn’t think your family experiences were worth anything sense you didn’t have to share a room with 2-3 other people.
But maybe I’m wrong, I guess.
Anyway I think family happiness shouldn’t be measured by the amount of members, but the amount of love and respect you have for one another. I would step in front of a speeding truck for anyone in my family (and also, for my cats), and I don’t think if I had any more siblings I would be any happier or more “fulfilled” than I am now.
JKeller,
Now I see where you’re getting that! Thanks for allowing me to clarify myself.
My folks finally got fed up with dropped classes and irresponsibility and said, “If you want an education, you pay for it.” It’s just amazing how our grades and attendance improved when we had to foot our own bills. I think this was wise of them not to let us waste their money. Love wasn’t cut off, wasting their money was.
Now, my parents helped a lot when I’d get destitute in grad school. They still do. My car broke down and I didn’t have the money to pay for it. They helped me out- It was a big big deal.
What I mean by “expired at age 20” are the comforts that I had being one of two children in a well-off family. After 20 I started paying my own bills, graduated and kept paying my own bills. So all those things I had as a kid (toys, clothes, cars) didn’t carry over into adulthood. My ex-boyfriends sibling DID carry over into adulthood.
I would step in front of a speeding truck for anyone in my family
And if you did, your sister wouldn’t have anymore siblings. Isn’t that sad? She’d be alone to care for your parents in their old age, also. It’s nice to have someone around to help you. It even nicer to have many people around.
I must be honest when I say that I am extra careful with my life because I don’t want to leave my sister as an only child. My friend, that I mentioned, who lost her brother talks about the pressure of being the only child and the fear that if something happens to her, her parents would be left with no one.
Look at it this way, if I do nothing and let my sister be hit by a speeding truck, then I would become the only child to care for my parents in their old age and I would have to live the rest of my life knowing that I let my sister get hit by a speeding truck.
JKeller,
I don’t advocate letting anyone get hit by a speeding truck. My point was that you are all your sister has got and likewise. It could be spread out more.
I disagree that we are “all each other has got”, we’ve got 4 cousins, close friends who are like family, and other friends who are likewise important.
My mom’s best friend since childhood died a few years ago from a long battle with cancer. They were so close they were like sisters. My mom visited her bedside everyday. There are bonds way deeper than blood.
This (Government-forced abortion) is what happens if you let your government dictate women’s reproductive choices.
Remember: The only thing preventing the USA from passing and enforcing a forced-abortion policy is Roe v. Wade.
Actually it seems to be a boon to Chinese women. Fewer women creates higher demand and more perceived value of available women.
Posted by: Sally at October 16, 2007 5:28 PM
Actually no it doesn’t. There is a huge problem with rape and an even bigger problem with slave sex trade.
Everything about China is…well…different. I’ve forgotten who it was, but some American statesman once asked a Chinese government official, Why don’t you allow your people to emigrate from China freely? Why do you keep them prisoners of a tyrannical government? The Chinese government official thought for a moment and then said “OK, how many Chinese immigrants do you want, a million? Ten million? Twenty million?”
This (Government-forced abortion) is what happens if you let your government dictate women’s reproductive choices.
Remember: The only thing preventing the USA from passing and enforcing a forced-abortion policy is Roe v. Wade.
That’s absurd.
None of the countries where abortion is illegal is abortion compulsory.
If there were a constitutional amendment guarenteeing the right to live at conception, the government would have a hell of a time finding due process for forced abortion.
Jacqueline, what I mean is this: If the Federal Government or a state government passed a law forcing pregnant women to have abortions, that law would be overturned in court, and the overturning opinion would cite Roe v. Wade and the right to privacy.
Without Roe v. Wade and the right to privacy, there would currently be no grounds on which to base an opinion against the forced-abortion law.
SoMG,
First of all, the right to privacy was invented in Griswold vs. CT, NOT Roe.
Secondly, prior to Griswold, there were no forced abortions or grievous acts against bodily autonomy. Why do you think they would spontaneously appear if Roe were overturned? There were none prior to the 60’s and Griswold and there is no reason that there would be any after.
It’s a hypothetical question. I’m not saying anyone is likely to pass such a law any time soon but IF SOMEONE DID, HYPOTHETICALLY, the right to privacy established first by Griswold and refined and expanded by Roe would be the only basis on which to find a forced-abortion law unconstitutional.
It would start with laws forcing pregnant addicts to abort crack-affected pregnancies.
Justice Alito would say it was up to the individual states.
According the the majority and dissenting opinions in Roe, it would be overturned if the humanity of the unborn were called into question because the 14th amendment guarentees a right to life, not because of debunking the right to privacy. The right to privacy was the rationale they used for Roe, and had they not had that rationale they would have found it like in Griswold—because they wanted abortion like they invented a constitutional right because they wanted birth control. Although the right to privacy is complete bs and doesn’t exist in any amendment, it would likely remain intact when Roe falls.
So if you’re banking your protection from unwanted curettes in your uterus on the right to privacy, fear not. However, there were no unwanted curettes pre-Griswold and there won’t be after. Although I could easily say that there are thousands of unwanted, coerced and forced currettes in the reign of Roe.
Alito thinks that’s good strict construction. I’d tell him to look at the friggin’ 14th amendment.
“Although the right to privacy is complete bs and doesn’t exist in any amendment,”
you don’t need it in an amendment, the basic idea of a government of limited powers is that the government can’t interfere in our personal lives unless we, the people, grant such powers to it. I want the government to mostly leave me alone. Don’t you?
“OK, how many Chinese immigrants do you want, a million? Ten million? Twenty million?”
Posted by: SoMG at October 16, 2007 7:28 PM
I would be willing to take 1.3 billion.
“Rae and Alyssa,
Why are you always here when I’m not! :(”
@MK: Snuuu! I still haven’t gotten an email back! :-p
In other news, I may be taking a weekend trip to Chicago in December (I’ve never visited and I would really like to over break). :)
you don’t need it in an amendment, the basic idea of a government of limited powers is that the government can’t interfere in our personal lives unless we, the people, grant such powers to it.
Precisely! We don’t need it in an amendment! It’s implied and governed by laws that protect common decency.
The Right to Privacy was merely “created” in an amendment to legalize morally abhorrent behaviors. Still, some common sense reigns. After all, I don’t have the right to keep a weapon privately stowed in my body cavity as I board a plane. I don’t have the right to keep my finances private from the IRS. Child abuse is not a private, domestic matter. And I don’t have the right to kill my baby as she sleeps soundly in my womb. See how a right to privacy had to be invented to legalize that last one?
I want the government to leave me alone while establishing laws that protect my right to live. Same thing for those too young to articulate their desires.
This (Government-forced abortion) is what happens if you let your government dictate women’s reproductive choices.
Remember: The only thing preventing the USA from passing and enforcing a forced-abortion policy is Roe v. Wade.
That’s absurd.
None of the countries where abortion is illegal is abortion compulsory.
If there were a constitutional amendment guarenteeing the right to live at conception, the government would have a hell of a time finding due process for forced abortion.
Posted by: Jacqueline at October 16, 2007 7:31 PM
……………………………………………………………….
Interesting. If a pregnant woman dies, how does this legal ‘right to live’/right to be gestated to viability get enforced?
Doug, Shame. I thought you were smarter than that. Or at least smarter than me.
MK, Hippie raises some valid questions. The fact remains that the overwhelming majority of studies show that women who have abortions are in general happy with their choice, and would do the same thing again in similar circumstances.
It makes sense that those with psychological problems afterward usually had problems beforehand, same as for women who continue pregnancies and give birth.
I’d say that we should let the women decide for themselves. There’s no guarantee there will be no regrets, of course. That’s true for people who give birth just as it is for those who have abortions. However, that’s no reason to take away their freedom in the matter.
Doug
Jacqueline, you wrote: “I don’t have the right to kill my baby as she sleeps soundly in my womb. ”
Yes, you do. Why? Because it’s YOUR womb.
Yes, you do. Why? Because it’s YOUR womb.
And my unborn daughter has her own womb, which isn’t mine to tear to pieces with a suction machine.
How sick. My baby wouldn’t be in my womb if I didn’t have sex and put her there. She has the right to stay there until she chooses to leave.
My womb is a SAFE place. KEEP OUT!
If you say so. Miscarriage early in pregnancy is common. It’s not really that safe.
Doug,
The fact remains that the overwhelming majority of studies
I think you’re overreaching on the overwhelming.
If you say so. Miscarriage early in pregnancy is common. It’s not really that safe.
My womb is safe from violence- At the least, it’s safe from the self-imposed violence that one out of four American woman choose to kill their babies.
“The fact remains that the overwhelming majority of studies”
MK: I think you’re overreaching on the overwhelming.
Not for what I said.
Actually it seems to be a boon to Chinese women. Fewer women creates higher demand and more perceived value of available women.
Posted by: Sally at October 16, 2007 5:28 PM
Actually no it doesn’t. There is a huge problem with rape and an even bigger problem with slave sex trade.
Posted by: Kristen at October 16, 2007 6:43 PM
……………………………….
There is a huge problem with rape, domestic violence and slave sex trade right here. China is now financially rewarding couples for having girl children. Doweries are becoming less necessary. In a country where girl children were found to be a financial liability, they are now becoming an asset. While life for women in China is no bed of roses, any change for the better has to be welcome.
“OK, how many Chinese immigrants do you want, a million? Ten million? Twenty million?”
Posted by: SoMG at October 16, 2007 7:28 PM
I would be willing to take 1.3 billion.
Posted by: hippie at October 17, 2007 12:21 PM
……………………….
Where would you put them? How would you feed them?