King Middle School to be investigated for sex abuse cover-up?
Last week the King Middle School board in Portland, ME, made national news for voting to offer hormonal contraceptive pills or patches to girls ages 11-13 without parental knowledge or consent.
This was because, according to a quote from NPR:
Five of the 134 students who visited King’s health center during the 2006-07 school year admit to having had sex, according to Amanda Rowe, lead nurse in the city’s school health centers.
Those five students were potential sex abuse victims. ME law, according to a Department of Health and Human Services document….
It is illegal to engage in a sexual act with someone less than 14 years of age regardless of the age of the defendant.
According to that document, “sexual act” is defined as:
… any act between 2 persons involving direct physical contact between the genitals of one and the genitals of the other…
Also according to that document, ME teachers, administrators, guidance counselors and the school nurse are all mandated reporters of suspected sexual abuse.
So all children who reported having sex to Rowe in the past, or any child asking her for contraceptives now, is a suspected victim. Did she report those 5 children to DHHS, as mandated by ME law? Will she report those coming to her in the future?
I’m not the only one to wonder. According to WCSH6.com, October 19:
The Christian Civic League of Maine announced Friday it will ask the attorney general’s office to look for criminal activity at King Middle School in Portland.
Other relevant questions:
[Rowe photo credit: NPR]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Jill, consent is needed in order to use the health center, there is a consent form that must be signed for use of it. Though I think a separate form should be needed for the pill, because, as you said, there really is no telling what the hormones could do to children in these age groups. However, I am glad that they] have been, and remain to hand out condoms
In Illinois, as in all 50 states, Puerto Rico and U.S. Territories, there are mandated reporting laws regarding child abuse, including suspected child sexual abuse.
In Illinois, the Illinois Department of Children & Family Services has a website dedicated to the training of mandated reporters, which include, among many others. The following list of mandated reporters is taken directly from the DCFS Mandated Reporters Manual:
Medical Personnel: for example, physician, dentist, LPN, RN, medical social worker, emergency medical technician, nurse practitioner, chiropractor, hospital administrator
School Personnel
Social Service/Mental Health Personnel
Law Enforcement Personnel
Coroner/Medical Examiner Personnel
Child Care Personnel
It should be noted that the protection of children is the responsibility of the entire community and that the law provides that anyone may make a report to the Hotline.
Mandated reporters are required to report suspected child maltreatment immediately when they have ?reasonable cause to believe? that a child known to them in their professional or official
capacity may be an abused or neglected child?. (ANCRA Sec.4)
This is done by calling the DCFS Hotline at 1-800-252-2873 or 1-800-25ABUSE.
I don’t think that I would have availed my children of the services offered by a clinic. I prefered the family doc when they were that young. I certainly would have concerned myself with their policies if I had.
Although the article states that state law does not require the health clinic to inform parents of treatments rendered, it isn’t clear as to the the clinic’s actual policy concerning such. Seems to me that the clinics policies are the concern of the community it operates in rather than we that are uneffected by them.
What are you suggesting Paul? That a 13 year old boy engaging in sex with a 13 year old girl be charged with rape and be listed as a sexual predator? Or perhaps the 13 year old girl should be charged with rape and listed as a sexual predator. Or maybe both?
Sally,
That is for the State agency (DCFS) or law enforcement to determine. Mandated reporters are simply required, by law, to report, SUSPECTED cases of child abuse, either to DCFS or to law enforcement officials. Learn about it.
So, you need parental consent for an aspirin but none for birth control? geez, these radicals are something else…
Right. Be prepared for more deaths. It will be the child’s fault though.
jasper you need consent to access that health center, and thus by default access to birth control
so, just because I want my daughter to have access to the health center means I have to worry that some radical might be feeding her birth control pills?
she’s only 12 years old!!!!
(i don’t really have a daughter though)
jasper, first off, giving out these pills isn’t going to be an everyday occurrence. If memory serves the girl first has to undergo some sort of evaluation before it is even considered that she gets birth control pills.
Though anyone with consent is free to walk in and get a condom. Much better idea at that age I think.
Sally,
That is for the State agency (DCFS) or law enforcement to determine. Mandated reporters are simply required, by law, to report, SUSPECTED cases of child abuse, either to DCFS or to law enforcement officials. Learn about it.
Posted by: Paul at October 23, 2007 7:46 PM
……………………………………….
I grew up in Illinois. Have mucho family there. No one is mandated to report abuse of children by other children. Think about it.
Dan,
condoms for 12 year-olds?
Dan, did you say in another post that you are Catholic?
jasper, was.
and if they are having sex at that age, better a sexually active twelve year old than a pregnant twelve year out. Middle school dropouts due to pregnancy are incredibely sad and not needed.
so, just because I want my daughter to have access to the health center means I have to worry that some radical might be feeding her birth control pills?
she’s only 12 years old!!!!
(i don’t really have a daughter though)
Posted by: jasper at October 23, 2007 8:06 PM
………………………………………
Jasper, if you ever do have children, you might want to put yourself in a position where your children wouldn’t need to resort to socialistic clinical care. @@
If you fail in the ability to do so, you might want to involve yourself with the clinic’s policies. You have the right and the obligation to guide your tax dollars. What are you biotching about?
Jasper is against modern medicine, modern theology, modern “morals.” The country went to hell sometime in the 50s, 60s or 70s (or maybe 1973) and we are all doomed, but for the self-righteous efforts of our kick=ass hero, Jasper.
Jasper, Will you hate the Hillary (or Edwards/Obama/Biden) years more or less than the rest of us have hated the Bush II years?
Hal,
I don’t “hate” them. I just think they would be bad for the country. btw: Hillary has the dem nomination already, forget about the others… and I’m not self-righteous.
The consent argument is rather silly. If a parent consents to allow a nurse to treat her kid’s skinned knee, then she should understand that to be a blanket approval for any crazy thing?
Not that condoms and birth control pills for 11-year-olds isn’t crazy in itself.
Hal said: “Jasper is against modern medicine, modern theology, modern “morals.””
Interesting. Does “modern” in that context mean “socialist”, “liberal”, and “loose”, respectively?
Hal said: “Jasper is against modern medicine, modern theology, modern “morals.””
Interesting. Does “modern” in that context mean “socialist”, “liberal”, and “loose”, respectively?
no, yes, and hell yes.
“However, I am glad that they have been, and remain to hand out condoms”
LOL Hal!
Hal,
I don’t “hate” them. I just think they would be bad for the country
Jasper, sometimes you seem almost decent. On the other hand, you express your opinion that they’re “bad for the country” rather strongly at times. Maybe because I just disagree, especially considering when I consider how bad the last 6 years have been (from my perspective)
Well then, considering that Jasper is apparently against liberal theology (which involves arbitrarily making up crap instead of following the word of God) and loose morals (which are, or at least used to be, self-evidently wrong), I think I would like to shake his hand and congratulate him.
lose morals are “self-evidently wrong?”
Hal, I said they used to be self-evidently wrong. Everyone understood loose morals to be wrong before half the world apparently suffered some kind of spiritual brain damage in the 1960s.
None of it matters. I just watched a show on the History channel about the Mayans. We’re all going to die in 2012.
I say we all log on to Jill’s December 21, 2012 and go out “together”…
And if we get a Hillary/Obama presidential team, that will be the year that they are up for re-election! No wonder the Mayans thought the world would end!
Kids in middle school pregnant.
That is the theme here.
This isn’t the worst thing that is going to happen. Wanna know what is?
The Gutmatcher instutite in 2002 reported that there were 15 million new sexually transmitted infections reported that year.
The Guttmatcher institute in 2006 reported that there were 18.9 million new sexually transmitted infections that year.
Do the math. That is almost an additional one million added every year.
Of the 18.9 million in 2006 they reported that almost half of those, 9.1 million, are from people aged 24 and younger.
Pregnancy does have its problems. However, Sexually transmitted infections can follow you your whole life. Can cause sterility, infections and death to just name a few.
How many more new infections have to be reported every year in this age group before we wake up and realize that condoms do not protect them. Birth control pills do not protect them. Allowing the school system to replace parenting does not protect them.
“They are just going to do it anyway” attitude is killing our children. It takes a village to raise a child right? What does this mean? It means we can’t tell them abstitence is best in the classroom and then have a health center tell them that we will help them cover up any sexually activity they are involved in. Children need our support and guidence not our lazy attutides because it is easier for us to through condoms and pills at them rather than raise them and properly educate them.
Abstinence has nothing to do with religion or morality. It has everything to do with saving their lives. Condoms and pills will only partially save them from pregnancy. They do not save them from a life with an incurrable STD.
Has anyone heard if Laura is okay?
Last time I checked she was sort of near a fire area.
Hal, I said they used to be self-evidently wrong. Everyone understood loose morals to be wrong before half the world apparently suffered some kind of spiritual brain damage in the 1960s.
Posted by: John Lewandowski at October 23, 2007 10:37 PM
John, of course real morals are important. I assumed by “loose morals” you meant things like sex before marriage. Since that’s not immoral, in my view, “loose” works as a kind of shorthand.
Seems like folks are a little fuzzy on the whole good vs. bad thing.
Nothing new under the sun.
“Jasper, if you ever do have children,”
I thought you had children, Jasper…
Hippie,
If she hasn’t checked in (Laura) by tonight, I’ll email her. She may be obnoxious but she’s part of our family, and I’ve grown quite fond of her. Wouldn’t want her to “burn in Cal”. Plenty of time for that in the afterlife…I’m Kidding!
Yes Bobby (2 boys), I don’t think Sally knows…
I suppose I should/could put aside the fact that she has bashed me and my son. I’ll put aside the fact that she referred to Terri Schiavo as a “breathing pot roast”…..I will offer up a few prayers for her to the imaginary “sky ghost.” I guess, despite it all, I could do that much.
From the Guttmacher Institute Sexually Transmitted Diseases Among American Youth:
Incidence and Prevalence Estimates, 2000
Chlamydia:
Of reported cases that included the age of the infected individual, 74%?that is, 439,041 infections?occurred in persons aged 15?24. Nevertheless, because of the asymptomatic nature of this disease, incomplete screening coverage5 and underreporting, this figure most likely reflects a substantial underestimate of the true incidence of chlamydia among young people.
***Chlamydia usually goes undetected because 75% of women and 50% of men who have this STD do not have symptoms.
If Chlamydia goes untreated it can cause:
In women:
PID
infertility
increase risk of ectopic pregnancy
Premature births
Can be passed to newborn causing eye infection, blindness, or pneumonia
In men:
NGU – nongonococcal urethritis
epididymitis
proctitis
Gonorrhea:
In 2000, a total of 358,995 new cases of gonorrhea were reported to the CDC, of which 60% were among persons aged 15?24.9 Previous estimates of gonorrhea incidence have assumed a 50% underdiagnosis and underreporting rate.10 Applying this assumption to the available level II national surveillance data, we estimate that 718,000 new cases of gonorrhea occurred in 2000 and that 431,000 cases occurred among persons aged 15?24.
***Gonorrhea in women usually goes undetected because the symptoms are very similar to a Yeast Infection.
If Gonorrhea goes untreated it can cause:
In women:
PID
infertility
higher risk of ectopic pregnancy
Can be based to newborn
In men:
epididymitis
scarring inside the urethra
minor damage to prostate
Syphilis:
In 2000, some 5,979 cases of primary and secondary syphilis (i.e., early stages of symptomatic Treponema pallidum infection) were
reported to the CDC?the lowest yearly number ever recorded. 11 However, in the same year, the CDC also received 9,470 reports of early latent syphilis, in which infection was probably
acquired in the preceding year. A further 15,597 reports were of late latent disease, in which infection probably occurred more than one year before diagnosis, making a total of 31,046 new cases of syphilis. Of the 15,449 cases that were reported in 2000 and acquired in the previous year (primary, secondary or early latent syphilis), 3,399 cases were among 15?24-year-olds.12 If 50% of all reported syphilis cases are diagnosed and reported more than one year after infection and 20% of infections are never diagnosed or reported,13 then approximately
8,200 new syphilis infections occurred among
persons aged 15?24 in 2000.
***The vast majority of people with syphilis are unaware they are infected.
There are 4 stages to Syphilis and the first two stages will reslove themselves. The last two, Latent Syphilis which lies dormant with no symptoms but can still be passed to others and Tertiary syphilis which if goes untreated can cause severe problems with the heart, brain, and nerves that can result in paralysis, blindness, dementia, deafness, impotence and even death. Syphilis can be spread to a fetus which can cause stillbirth or dying shortly after birth. If the newborn survives and goes untreated it can cause developmental delay, seizures or death.
Genital Herpes:
Using age-specific incidence curves and assuming
that the rate of genital herpes in 2000 remained the same as the rate in 1985,19we estimate that 1.6 million new HSV- 2 infections occurred in the United States in 2000. Adjusting this figure for the age distribution of persons newly infected with HSV-2 to account for those aged 15?24?40% in models based on the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey 20?we estimate that youth acquire 640,000 new HSV- 2 infections each year.
HPV:
If we suppose that age-specific incidence
estimates for cervical HPV infection among women21 reflect the HPV incidence rates among men, then approximately 6.2 million new HPV infections occurred in 2000 among Americans aged 15?44; of these infections, 74% (4.6 million) occurred among 15?24-year-olds.
Using an estimated female HPV prevalence of 33% (derived from a survey of sexually active women attending a university health service22), ssuming an equal prevalence among sexually active men and applying these figures to
the number of sexually active 15?24-year-olds in the population, we estimate that in 2000, some 9.2 million persons in this age-group were infected with HPV and hence were capable of spreading the virus.
Hepatitis B
the CDC has estimated that 81,000 new infections with the hepatitis B virus occurred in the United States in 2000, of which 15,000 occurred in persons aged 15?2424 Approximately half of these cases were among individuals who reported high-risk sexual activity.25 Hence, the estimated incidence of sexually acquired hepatitis B among 15?24-year-olds is 7,500.
Young people bear an even larger proportion of the burden from chronic infection: Of the estimated 5,000 new chronic infections in the United States in 2000, some 1,200?nearly one-quarter?occurred among 15?24-year-olds. Individuals with chronic infection not only remain infectious for most or all of their lives, but also have an approximately 25% lifetime risk of developing cirrhosis or liver cancer.26
Trichomoniasis
In the United States, depending on the type of clinical facility and the level of STD risk, between 5% and 60% of women and men screened for
trichomonas will be infected with the parasite.28 According to WHO, approximately 8.2 million new T. vaginalis infections occurred in the United States and Canada in 1999.29 Assuming that 90% of these were in the United States and
that the incidence remained the same in 2000, we estimate that 7.4 million new cases of erichomoniasis occurred in this country in 2000. If these infections were evenly distributed
among sexually active persons of all age-groups,30 25% of them?1.9 million?occurred among persons aged 15?24.
HIV
Assuming that 50% of HIV infections are contracted by persons younger than 25,34 we expect that about 20,000 new HIV infections occur each year among youth. In 2000, according to the distribution of AIDS cases in the United States by the recorded route of infection, an estimated 75% of HIV infections were acquired through sexual intercourse. Thus, approximately 30,000 new infections were contracted through sexual intercourse in 2000, and 15,000 of these were contracted by persons aged 15?24.
Total STD Incidence:
Despite decreases in the rates of some reportable STDs during the 1990s, we estimate that 18.9 million new cases of STD occurred in 2000, of which 9.1 million (48%) were among young people aged 15?24 (Table 2). These estimates emphasize this age-group?s particular vulnerability to STDs.
****Correction to my earlier post. The number of 15 million was in 1995 and 18.9 million was in 2000. We can assume the number of 18.9 million has increased in the past 7 years.
[[ above post is for Laura]]
I think Laura said yesterday that she was close to the fires, but not that close. I heard this morning that some evacuee’s have been able to go home. Hopefully this is a good sign that she is okay.
Heather,
Good Girl…you make me proud.
Thanks, MK. *winks*
Sally and Dan are examples of those who enable “child pornography”.
If two children are having sex in “private”, it is only between the children and not the laws of a state. If those same two children have sexual relations and record it on video, Sally might agree with arresting the director, to those who possess the recorded sexual acts of those two children.
Would Sally arrest the “actors” of child pornography, or the director, photographer, to those in possesion of the child pornography?
But, if the act is not recorded, Sally is for children having sexual relations, since it might be the age Sally began using other people for her narcissistic personality devoted to vice is nice.
Private “child pornography with BC”= good acts.
Public(recorded) “child pornography with BC”= bad acts.
The mind of Sally is formed from years of vice destroying innocence as early as possible, and soon as possible.
If only Sally would be more honest with herself,and others, and admit in public, what she approves in private.
Poor Sally, the resident child sex expert, who must defend child pornogaphy to have a consistent right and wrong,principle,ethic, about children having sexual relations.
Ok, Joe, arrest the director, children(?), and the photographer, but let the “health director” on the set not be charged, since the children were using BC.
yllas, I couldn’t help but think the very same thing!!! If you think that an 11 year old should take B/C, I have to wonder about you.
{{yllas, not you. Dan and Sally!!]]
Incompetent supervision!
They want kids on birth control so they don’t have to watch them properly (or deal with an expensive abortion or messy adoption). In fact, by putting kids on birth control, they’re ADMITTING that the kids will neglected and continue to be statuatory raped or expose themselves to a host of STDS, many of which have no cure.
It’s laziness at the expense of innocent children. Teachers and Parents: Do your damned job!
Heather, people start revolutions for private reasons, such as a “sexual revolution”.
Sally is that example.
Sally agrees with child sex, since Sally was a child herself when she had sex with herself, or another. To preach for child sex and not have practiced child sex would be a insult to her conscience, or open her to the charge of being a hypocrite.
I have wondered for years why a person who is sentenced for sex crimes almost always “blames another” for their acts. Such as, I was molested as a child,etc. Or, why a person, who has a parent that was/is a drunk, becomes a drunk him/herself.
One must ask oneself, if the act was “wrong” when you were a child and “hurt” you, then why must you spread your misery(if it truly is misery in their heart or conscience) to another,and yourself, through your excess drinking and sexual activities when you “grew up”?
Or at least it is a “wrong behavior”, when you stand before a judge who can remove your freedom of choice by removing you from the public world. And you simply excuse yourself from guilt,shame or remorse from blaming another(mommy or daddy, but never the Sally’s of the world) for doing you “wrong as a child”.
What Sally advocates is the removal of laws that punish sex acts between children, since Sally is honest with herself in one corner of her conscience, in that she was never molested as a child sexually(although she might have been) , because pleasure can’t molest anything!!! Her only principle of life is pleasure. It decides all matters she comes up against in life.
Or, another motivation for Sally began many years ago when her parent told her not to do something, such as not drinking under age, and Sally did not “like” that denial of pleasure being stated by her mother/father/guardian.
And so Sally did what children do, I’ll show mommy who is boss of my body and life, she drank more, and “punished” mommy with her drinking. Eventually Sally showed mommy/authority, who is boss, in many matters of life.
A family of thieves teach their children how to steal. The mother/father do not allow “others” to teach their children what is their family business. No greater pride, a parent can have, when a child “learns” from the parent what a parent believes/practices(baseball,football,sewing, etc). Plus, that “hands on experience from dad or mom” in how to steal, is a pride only meant for the family, and not some professional educator in thievery(see fellow prisoners).
Does Sally have pride in her preaching for sexual vice, much less that “hands on learning” she must give her own children to avoid being a hypocrite? After all, if a family of druglords teach their children how to manufacture/ distribute/sell drugs through personal “hands on” interactions, Sally must teach her own family as a minimum to have pride in her vice for which she advocates and practices.
The truth be told, Sally does not have one good reason for not touching her children, or other children for so called “educational sexual purposes”. If she does, it will reek of hypocricy and a lack of pride in what she practices in private.
yllas, I’m sorry to hear that you were molested as a child.
Sally,
I did not grow up in Illinois. However, educators are required to report abuse no matter the source. If a kid is being beat up after school by his or her peers, you report it. It is a crime. If a child is raped after school by his or her peers, you report it. You don’t have to have verified facts or proof, just suspicion and you must report it, not because you can prove it, but because it might be abuse. The police will handle the rest. Teachers are informants, not witness or judges.
heather, if you had read my posts, I have not come out for handng out birth control at that age. Condoms, however, I think are just fine. If they are engaging in sexual acts they should at last be protecting themselves. I doubt it is widey used, espescially since many are still kinda grossed out about there own bodis at that age now, let alone seeing someone else’s.
Yllas, I haven’t yet had sex, nor do I plan to have sex for awhile. However, for those that choose to do have sex, why can they not have the option to have prtection? If they are already having sex, what difference does allowing access to condoms make, aside from making their action safer? Why must, as a supporter of easily accessible birth control, I have had sex? Or been molested? Or believe in child pornography? Your argument makes no rational points/sense to me at all.
Jacqueline, in cases such as this both could be charged for statutory rape. So you want both kids sent to jail for choosing to have sex? Do you really want to put 2 more in the juvenile justice system beause they chose to do something that you do not like, and though considered statutory rape, really isnt that at all (assuming the kids are the same age)? That law is in place to protect children from pedophiles more than anything else. Plenty in my grade, im sure, could have been charged with statutory rape because ones birthday was a week later than the other’s. Or perhaps both were underage.
Should all of these people face jailtime/juvey? Do you really want to arrest that many people for engaging in sexual acts? Good luck, and good riddance. It isn’t going to happen and certainly won’t change anything by attempting to do so.
in cases such as this both could be charged for statutory rape.
No. Only an adult having sex with a minor.
Anonymous, there have been cases in which two minors engage in sexual relations, and often the mle is charged with statutory rape, essentially by the parents of the girl.
To me it makes no sense, but I do know of one case where the lawyer of a boy pointed out both were underage and so the girl could be charged as well. There was a catch though, the girl had gotten pregnant, so the judge ruled that the girl had faced more detriment from the relation, so only the male would be charged.
Dan –
Condoms have to be used correctly 100% of the time in order to be considered “protection”. How many 11, 12, or 13 year old do you know that can even put their underwear on right, let alone a condom! My Nephew cannot even remember to zip up his pants and he’s 13! You honestly think that passing out condoms to children at such a young age is protection? You can train and show a young child how to use a condom and in 15 minutes they will forget. Heck, they’ve been zipping up their fly’s for years and then all of a sudden they foget how to do it!
Throwing condoms at children is just giving them permission to have sex. It is also giving them a false sense of securtiy.
Read what I wrote about the most common STI’s that are spread amoung the young. Most of them are asymptomatic but will still cause medical problems and will still be spread from one person to another. The ones that have symptoms can look like they are something else, and you honestly believe a child is going to recognize there might be a difference. Do you honestly believe that if a child recognizes there is a problem and they believe/know it is from them having sex they are going to tell their parents they need to go to the doctor. They don’t even have a drivers license yet, so they can’t go to the local PP to have their medical records sealed from their parents so the can be treated in secret. They can’t go to the emergency room without parental permission. They can’t go to the doctor alone without parental permission.
We are slowly killing our children. Pretty soon 1/2 of them will be having abortions and the other 1/2 will be sterile from STD’s.
When I read the results of the AP invesitgation on teachers being accused of sexual misconduct I really began to wonder if there was a secondary reason this school wants BC and “protection” for their children.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303780,00.html
Here are some hightlights:
The result is an unprecedented national look at the scope of sex offenses by educators
Well Dan, your enabling child molestation(BC or condoms) if they are not of age, which 11 years old is not.
To use your logic, if one is smoking at 11 years old, one ,might as well give them “filtered cigarettes”. And the merchant who sells children filtered cigarettes is arrested and the license to sell that “vice product” is removed from selling a pleasure of life.
You do want those who sell cigarettes to minors removed from selling cigarettes to minors, right Dan? Cigarettes give pleasure, as surely as does sex, but for Dan, sexual pleasure has no consequences on one hand, and on the other hand it does.
Same goes for alcohol.
I have seen educated parents give parties where alcohol is served to minors and are stunned when they are charged with a crime. And it can get real expensive when 30-40 children are found with alcohol on them from the “adult who gave it to them”.
After all, their child is drinking anyway, why not buy it for them in the safety of their home first, and then, to having a party for those friends that he/she drinks with.
What motivates you and Sally to defend child molestation is pleasure. Which brings up the question to you Dan; if sex is nothing more then pleasure for you Dan, you have no reason to deny sexual acts at any age, since one would be denying sexual pleasure. Are you for denying sexual pleasure to children Dan? And if you are, give the reasons for denying sexual pleasure for children age 11 or younger. You have given your reasons for giving children sexual devices, would you give a match to a 10 year old who smokes? Your “option” Dan, is actually an admission to approving child molestation.
And Heather, did I admit to being “molested” as a child? Yes or no. Which sentence admits an act of sexual pleasure was performed on yllas while a child?
yllas, Maybe I didn’t read it right. Sorry.
yllas, okay. I see where I read it wrong. My apologies.
From a public health standpoint, it makes perfect sense to give birth control to populations that are having unprotected sex and have the potential to have unwanted pregnancies.
From the stand-point of a parent (which I am not), I can see that this must be absolutely insane and to an extent I fully agree. Why the hell’s bells are 11 year olds having sex? I mean Jiminy Crickets what is going on?
My guess: poor parental supervision and the fact that parents don’t parent, they are too busy trying to be the child’s friend instead of an authority figure (which they are and should be). It is not the school’s responsibility to teach children good sexual mores, it’s the parent’s and obviously these “parents” are doing NOTHING to help their children. It’s quite frankly disgusting. I mean jeez, when I was 11 I was too busy watching Disney Channel and playing Barbies with my 9-year-old neighbor.
yllas,
“Well Dan, your enabling child molestation(BC or condoms) if they are not of age, which 11 years old is not.”
So, if both parties are not of age, each can charge the other with molestation? that makes plenty of sense.
“To use your logic, if one is smoking at 11 years old, one ,might as well give them “filtered cigarettes”. And the merchant who sells children filtered cigarettes is arrested and the license to sell that “vice product” is removed from selling a pleasure of life.
You do want those who sell cigarettes to minors removed from selling cigarettes to minors, right Dan? Cigarettes give pleasure, as surely as does sex, but for Dan, sexual pleasure has no consequences on one hand, and on the other hand it does.”
Don’t know your point here. They can’t buy cigarettes, but hey can still legally smoke them.
“Same goes for alcohol.
I have seen educated parents give parties where alcohol is served to minors and are stunned when they are charged with a crime. And it can get real expensive when 30-40 children are found with alcohol on them from the “adult who gave it to them”.
After all, their child is drinking anyway, why not buy it for them in the safety of their home first, and then, to having a party for those friends that he/she drinks with.”
And parents are able to give their own child alcohol, they simply cannot make that choice for other parents.
“What motivates you and Sally to defend child molestation is pleasure.”
Where did I say sex is solely for pleasure?
“Which brings up the question to you Dan; if sex is nothing more then pleasure for you Dan, you have no reason to deny sexual acts at any age, since one would be denying sexual pleasure.”
once again, never said sex was about pleasure. Second, they are unaware sex even exists or what it is, thus why pedophiles can be successful into tricking their victims into doing what they want by giving it a different name, or making it acceptable. As for sexual pleasure at any age, kids can, and have, discovered that on their own. However, unlike pubescents who have learned or begun learning about sex/sexual pleasure, these children have no knowledge of sex, what ity is, what it does, etc.
“Are you for denying sexual pleasure to children Dan? And if you are, give the reasons for denying sexual pleasure for children age 11 or younger.”
Already did, and they are denied pleasure, but essentially the understanding that sexual relations wityh other people even exists. There have been cases where children find that masturbation exists at ridiculously young ages. It is rare, but it does happen
“You have given your reasons for giving children sexual devices, would you give a match to a 10 year old who smokes? Your “option” Dan, is actually an admission to approving child molestation.”
Personally, I wouldn’t. But once again, there are certainly] people out there who would, sadly.
And no, it is no even CLOSE to an approval of child molestation. Honestly, I’m not sure I would mind if the death penalty were available for those who have raped or those who have sexually abused a child. However, allowing two pubescents to have sex and allowing them to be safe and protect themselves (which they are capable of doing valerie, for the record)certainly does not fall under the category of allowing a 25 year old to have sex with a 14 year old girl.
Well Dan, you are simply enabling statutory rape, since you don’t think your enabling a child to be molested by giving them condoms. Is that clearer for ya Dan? Your thinking is bending reality to enable your desire to give children condoms, from being a silly, selective, vice advocate, Dan. The reality is that a child is breaking a law, the law of statutory rape. Your enabling the breaking of that law, by advocating for sexual devices for children, that assure the law will be broken. Or are you giving them condoms to look at Dan? Your funny Dan, you wouldn’t give a match or light to a underage child to enable the child to smoke, but you would give a condom to a child so he may rape another child. No child may “legally smoke”, period. A selective vicelord that Dan, who denies the pleasure of smoking to children who already smoke, while enabling the breaking of a law concerning sexual acts(statutory rape).
Advocating sex between children is nothing more then child pornography, by children, Dan. Two children having sexual relations is right/good for Dan, but sex between a person who is not a child, and one who is a child, is not right/good in the selective vices of Dan.
So Dan, if two children “video” themselves having pleasure by their organs of reproduction(what other reason is there Dan?), and it is not for public consumption, those actions are right or correct. Yes or no Dan.
Your nothing more then a advocate of child pornography, without the recording of the event, who admits the worst pornography of humanity; child pornography between children, for children, as long as they use a condom.
But, you know your a moral person, Dan, since you deny sex between a adult and a child, and should not be recorded or performed in private. You just want children to have private sex between themselves and not let the parents know about those actions, while you give them the means to do it “safely.” Ah, Dan, another child pornographer who wants “safe child pornography” for children, by children.
Are you related to Joe Francis, Dan?
Rae –
“My guess: poor parental supervision and the fact that parents don’t parent, they are too busy trying to be the child’s friend instead of an authority figure (which they are and should be). It is not the school’s responsibility to teach children good sexual mores, it’s the parent’s and obviously these “parents” are doing NOTHING to help their children. It’s quite frankly disgusting. I mean jeez, when I was 11 I was too busy watching Disney Channel and playing Barbies with my 9-year-old neighbor.”
It’s impossible to a responsible parent when the school system underminds everything you are trying to teach your children.
I say abstinence/they say “there going to do it anyway” and pass out condoms without telling me.
I say love God/they say there is no such thing as God and it is rediculous to have a moment of silence in school let alone recognise there are different theorys of how we were created.
I say sometimes people will be offended/they say no one should be offended, even if that means you are offended by offending no one.
I say history is an important subject to learn/they say history is too difficult and lowers the students self-esteem so they removed the class from the curriculim.
I say learning how to loose is an important fact of life/they say no one should lose and will do everything to “protect” children from this.
I say children are going to draw pictures and sometimes a student may draw a picture of a water gun fight that happened between friends the other day/they say zero tolerance and suspend the student for drawing a memory of a good time.
I say teenagers should not be given condoms and other meathods of birth control without parents knowledge/they say parents do not know how to be parents and will help teens lie to their parents.
I say my daughter will not have an abortion without my knowledge/they say I may beat my child or force her to give birth which is wrong and they tell my daughter they will help her hide a surgical proceedure from me.
Do you see why it isn’t the parents fault? It is impossible to raise your children in an school system that tells them the exact opposite of what I believe and what I teach them.
If I had money my kids would go to private schools, but I don’t have money.
If I didn’t have learning disabilities I would home school my kids to protect them from all the hypocrisy of the school sytem.
I’m left, as well of millions of other parents, with no choice but to fight and fight and fight to keep my children safe from the school system. Schools are suppose to teach the 3 R’s not tell the kids that I don’t know how to be a parent just because they disagree with my beliefs.
I think before we start giving birth control to middle schoolers, we need to focus on guidence that the child is getting. The people who have sex in middle school are often victims of exploitation, or they just feel plain neglected by their parents and just do whatever they want. I knwo the disappointment of my parents were more hurtful for me than any kind of punishment, and I think kids actually like that, because it means that someone really cares for them and their well-being.
yllas, look up MA law. Anyone under the age of 18 cannot purchase cigarettes, HOWEVER, they are allowed to smoke them if they have them, in front of cops if they so choose. There is nothing the cops can do about it.
and once again, statutory rape as I see it, is between 2 people of whom one does not understand he consequences of sex and the other does. If you want to arrest a large portion of high school kids and the small portion of middle school kids who have sex, be my guest. I will simply overburden the justice system even more than it already is. Though, part of me doubts that a jury would convict two kids of the same age who “consensually” have sex.
” Advocating sex between children is nothing more then child pornography, by children, Dan. Two children having sexual relations is right/good for Dan, but sex between a person who is not a child, and one who is a child, is not right/good in the selective vices of Dan.
So Dan, if two children “video” themselves having pleasure by their organs of reproduction(what other reason is there Dan?), and it is not for public consumption, those actions are right or correct. Yes or no Dan.”
You know full well there are other reasons to sex than pleasure, being the conservative you are. :-p
As for he ape, nope. Not allowed. Children may not understand the consequences of sex, or the video. However, at least with sex condoms will help prevent some of those consequences. Videos are not needed in their sexual lives, and once again, I doubt middle schoolers are going to think hey lets film me having sex!” The] could already] video themselves masturbating, without having a sexual relation, yet they don’t, at least 5not without the encouragement of an adult.
“Your nothing more then a advocate of child pornography, without the recording of the event,”
Thus it isnt child pornography, try again.
“But, you know your a moral person, Dan, since you deny sex between a adult and a child, and should not be recorded or performed in private. You just want children to have private sex between themselves and not let the parents know about those actions, while you give them the means to do it “safely.””
They can tell their parents if they want, or they may not. That is up to them, though I think the parents will catch on fairly quickly when their kid has a girl over a lot or goes to a girl’s house a lot. Not to mention, suspicious noises or changes in behavior.
“Are you related to Joe Francis, Dan?””
Nope.
And I think I’m going to stop replying to your posts, because I really having the urge to shout at you. Time for me to back off, because obviously you are trying to get me pissed off or just be annoying.
Sally and Dan are examples of those who enable “child pornography”.
If two children are having sex in “private”, it is only between the children and not the laws of a state. If those same two children have sexual relations and record it on video, Sally might agree with arresting the director, to those who possess the recorded sexual acts of those two children.
Would Sally arrest the “actors” of child pornography, or the director, photographer, to those in possesion of the child pornography?
But, if the act is not recorded, Sally is for children having sexual relations, since it might be the age Sally began using other people for her narcissistic personality devoted to vice is nice.
Private “child pornography with BC”= good acts.
Public(recorded) “child pornography with BC”= bad acts.
The mind of Sally is formed from years of vice destroying innocence as early as possible, and soon as possible.
If only Sally would be more honest with herself,and others, and admit in public, what she approves in private.
Poor Sally, the resident child sex expert, who must defend child pornogaphy to have a consistent right and wrong,principle,ethic, about children having sexual relations.
Ok, Joe, arrest the director, children(?), and the photographer, but let the “health director” on the set not be charged, since the children were using BC.
Posted by: yllas at October 24, 2007 10:14 AM
………………………………….
Babble much? Equating two 13 year olds playing slap and tickle to nasty child predators is ridiculous.
I’m an old Illinois chick. I grew up with nasty old farts trolling past me walking home from school. One of them might have been your daddy. ‘Need a ride little girl?” I grew up with that shit.
It wasn’t invented by PP or comdemned by your choice of religion. Take both of your hands and find a grip. Hysterical freak.
you are simply enabling statutory rape, since you don’t think your enabling a child to be molested by giving them condoms.
:: cueing Twilight Zone music ::