Live blogging, “Facing Reality: Choice”
Let’s talk about the documentary we’re watching on Fox News, Facing Reality: Choice….
My notes from the show are on page 2.
Now that the documentary is over, what did you think? Did it help, hurt, or not make a difference in the debate?
UPDATE, 10/28, 7a: We are gratetful to have heard from Bobbie in the comments section last night, the sister of Brooke, the third mother in the Fox News documentary….
Brooke and husband Tom learned when their preborn baby Marlee was 20 weeks old that she was stricken with a fatal chromosomal disorder, Trisomy 18, and would likely not live beyond hours or days after delivery.
Brooke was given the option of aborting, a terribly misguided attempt to assuage a mother’s grief, which it does not. Aborting a handicapped baby has the opposite of the intended affect. Then a mother has live her entire life knowing she killed her particularly helpless baby rather than protect him or her according to the maternal mother bear instincts God has placed within women. I have spoken to these mothers, who live tortured lives of guilt and regret.
I have also spoken and read stories of mothers who allowed God to determine life and death, and I have never ever heard of a mother – or family – who regretted taking this path.
Bobbie wished Fox News had shown a picture of Marlee. I’m honored to:
Bobbie also recommended visiting a website dedicated to Marlee, here.
Bobbie has also composed a touching video, which I cried through, about Marlee. Brooke, Tom, and Bobbie, thank you for letting us share in the love and grief of your short time with Marlee:
JLS notes from documentary
First pregnant mother, Kayla….
A product herself of a crisis pregnancy….
Her commitment to abstinence kept Kayla chaste throughout high school….
Got on the pill; got sloppy with taking it. Typical of youth. Did whatever “comprehensive sex ed” she got with the pill work? No. Anytime a woman goes on the pill, the doctor, nurse, or health clinic assume responsibility.
Fayetteville abortion mill: William Harrison. Sinister man. I’ve had conversations with him.
Second pregnant mother, Jeanne, 29 years old, pregnant with 6th baby. Does not have custody of first 4. Placed 5th drug addicted baby for adoption less than a year ago.
Adopted, yet “would never give my kid up for adoption.” Don’t get that.
Another product of “comprehensive sex ed” failure….
Third pregnant mother, Brooke….
This is typical. Most handicapped babies are conceived into wanted homes.
Ultrasound at 20 weeks: abnormal. Amniocentesis: Trisomy 18 (extra 18th chromosome). 70% of these babies don’t survive to delivery. (So why abort?) Others will generally die within hours to days after birth.
Abortionist William Harrison. Heinous man. Has aborted between 10-20k babies. “I’m not in the business of murdering children. I’m in the business of saving the lives of my patients.” Those sentences make absolutely no sense.
Kayla is aborting. The drug is what makes her weepy says the nurse. Bull.
“Last time”? Second time aborter, less than a year ago. Her Mom is helping her. Grandmother watching her grandchild being killed. Can’t comprehend.
Jeanne again. Called her boyfriend, who did not want her to abort. So she planned not to. She miscarried.
Pregnant again?! Says adoption is her only option. That’s good. Placing the baby with parents of her previous adoptive baby. Whoops, rethinking. Baby due after show airs – February 2008.
Brooke again.
Brooke describes being in shock when told the diagnosis, of course. Yet her doctor asked if she wanted to terminate at that time. Feeling the pressure… the clock ticking… in a surreal situation… very unfair to ask of these vulnerable mothers.
Baby died 20 minutes before birth. Family surrounding her. I’ve never known a mom who regretted leaving her baby’s life and death in God’s hands. But I’ve met several moms who regretted terminating. Of course.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Talk amongst yourselves….
Ohio State versus Penn State.
Tennessee versus South Carolina.
The drug-use connection in the first two is interesting.
Ah, Doug, you can’t fool me.
Charles, the contraception/abortion industry loves irresponsibility. It’s how they make their money.
Yes, irresponsibility, no wonder PP fights parental notification.
What!!!!!
Ah
Nice – an after the fact justification.
He is a wretched, wretched man. He is in this for the attention. At some point he began to identify with abortion; it became his calling card.
He emailed me several years ago attempting to provoke a conversation, which I yielded to. After a couple emails he said he was compiling conversations with pro-lifers for a pro-abortion book. I stopped talking to him.
The only thing William Harrison is saving is the lifestyles of his patients.
With as wishy-washy as these women are with their decision, it highlights the importance of sidewalk counseling.
Yes, Charles, good point.
I’m tivoing the program. Sorry I can’t join in the discussion. I’m already feeling down I don’t know if I can take watching this today. Please tell me at least one person delivers.
Yes, Kristen, the mom of the Trisomy 18 baby is going to deliver.
Actually, Kristen, the drug addict mom chose not to abort, too. Just don’t know the end of that story, whether she will place the baby for adoption or keep.
Thanks. I think I’ll watch it tonight after the kids go to bed.
So much for comprehensive sex ed. 2nd abortion in a year, proves the studies that show that girls who abort have a greater chance of getting pregnant again w/in the first year to make up for aborting the first time. Unfortunatly, most abort again, and hence the terrible cycle starts all over again. And PP and other abortionists are there to prey on them.
I wonder how the grandmother will feel after her daughter gets married and decides to have children then. When she looks at him/her, I wonder if will have flash backs of watching her grandchild being killed. Will this affect her relationship with her grandchild?
We need to do a better job spotlighting that point, Tara. It’s time to get off defense re: abstinence teaching and go on offence re: reabortions. They are squarely “comprehensive sex ed’s” responsibility. After the 1st abortion, the clinic did teaching, no?… and one-on-one at that.
Jill –
The PC side’s argument has always been, if you advocate for birth control, condoms and comprehensive sex ed, that abortions would be “extremely rare”. But 4,500 abortions a day (1.5 million a year) is hardly “extremely rare”. It is a miserable failure.
In regards to Kayla
Random thoghts…
The word COURAGE kept popping in my brain as I finished watching the program. It took courage, IMO, to “give permission” for the babies to be born. Seems like allowing the babies to live to the fullness of their time took more guts than to say, “I’ll just have an abortion.”
Kayla. Noticed her eyes as they glanced the other way as she justified her choice(s)? Not just once. Several times. Eye language, since we don’t get a full body view in the interview. Very telling.
At first Kayla and her roommate are all giddy, prenatal vits. and all, over their simultaneous pregnancies. Now both are confident their empty wombs were the best choices.
Kayla’s mom: I just couldn’t believe she was mixing her faith with abortion! I’m with you, Jill, how does a grandma feel witnessing the shredding of her grandchild? Unfathomable.
Drug Addict: she still managed to know right from wrong in spite of the chemical malaise gripping her. Perfect candidate for the abortion pros: drug abuser, single, dysfunctional relationships, estranged children, etc.
She had a support system as evidenced by her counselor and friends. Let’s not forget the adoptive parents. God bless them.
Support. What a difference that can make. Kayla felt unsupported, which had much to do with her decision.
I’m not patting Jeanne on the back as far as her issues go. Rehab only could do so much for her. Again, courage to do what is right. My valuation.
“The only thing William Harrison is saving is the lifestyles of his patients.”
Posted by: Charles at October 27, 2007 8:39 PM
Truth, brother Charles, truth!
*pokes in* Hi everyone! I’m about to go to a crazy fun Halloween party with a costume contest and hopefully win some money, but…I found a pretty awesome article. You guys ever wonder why us atheists seem mad all the time? Let Greta explain why!
http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html#
Talk to you guys later! *aways*
I’m not patting Jeanne on the back as far as her issues go. Rehab only could do so much for her. Again, courage to do what is right. My valuation.
Posted by: carder at October 27, 2007 10:03 PM
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Yes, isn’t it brave when women create helpless victims and innocent bystanders to attend their trainwreck?
Only someone who HATES children could put any positive spin on the fact that Jeanne has decided to carry and keep a child.
All I can say about Jeanne and her precious Marlee is God love you!
What baffles me about all this is how life can be so disposable. Literally.
Found an October 2003 edition of Reader’s Digest and wouldn’t you know our friend Dr. Harrison is interviewd and quoted. It states that Harrison does roughly 700 abortions a year. The show we just watched said he does 1,000 annually. Nice raise.
Honestly, how is he not suicidal yet?
Here’s a quote from him: “The real issue is not when life begins, because that’s established at the junction of a sperm and an egg. Here’s the important question: Is it morally meaningful life? Well, I don’t know.”
Dr. Eric Keroack, who used to do abortions, is quoted in the same article: “It’s mind-boggling that a fetus is considered so precious that we spare no expense to save its life, and yet it’s so worthless that it can be legally disposed of.”
He (Harrison) saves the lives of those women who would die from illegal abortion if his services were not available.
He also preserves their personal freedom and body-ownership.
You’ve got to hand it to FOX, they sure know what their conservative audience wants to see: careless, drug-abusing pro-choicers and nice, normal pro-lifers. So much for “facing reality.”
They could’ve found two normal, nice, healthy pro-choicers from the suburbs and one irresponsible, ignorant, drugged-out pro-lifer, and it would’ve been equally “fair and balanced.”
Which are under assault right now.
Tp: It would have been more so.
“Only someone who HATES children could put any positive spin on the fact that Jeanne has decided to carry and keep a child.”
Posted by: Laura at October 27, 2007 10:21 PM
You know I love you, Laura, right?
You’re so caustic it just makes me want to fly out to Cally and save you from those wretched fires.
Please let the adoptive parents of Jeanne’s 4th child know how much they hate children since they decided to adopt him in spite of pregnancy-induced drug addiction.
And remind them that are absolutely detestable for entertaining the notion of adopting her 7th child, including paying for all her prenatal care and basic living expenses, for up to six weeks postpartum.
The nerve of them calling her to make sure she and the fetus are okay.
Come, Laura, if you claim to be pro-choice, one would expect you to be supportive of her choice!
Aren’t you due for another round of rabies shots?
To carder:
“All I can say about Jeanne and her precious Marlee is God love you!”
Posted by: carder at October 27, 2007 10:27 PM
My name is Bobbie, and I am Brooke’s sister (the third woman portrayed in the documentary). Marlee belonged to my sister and her husband, Tom. Not to Jeanne. Sorry if I sound rude, it’s just that the past few months have been very hard for our family and I just want everyone to know how special Marlee was to all of us, and not confuse her with the child of one of the other women on the show.
“He also preserves their personal freedom and body-ownership.”
You mean, body-worship?
By the way, I would love for all of you to view Marlee’s website and video, and feel free to comment on the video or sign the guest book. Brooke looks forward to reading them and to communicating with all of those who contact her. The website is http://www.marleejonell.com/home and the video is viewable on there although it is very slow to load. It can be viewed much quicker by going to youtube and searching for the video entitled “Into the Arms of God”.
My deepest apologies, Bobbie. Thank you for correcting me. I sincerely hope I have not offended her and Tom. I’ll edit that.
“All I can say about Brooke and her precious Marlee is God love you!”
Thank you carder, I appreciate it. Like I said, sorry if I sounded rude, I think my family and I are all just feeling very emotionally raw at the moment. I found this site by doing a google search for the title of the Fox show and I have to say that I have really enjoyed it. I hope you all liked the show. I wish they would have included a picture of Marlee at the end, however.
Kayla wanted to keep her baby. She didn’t want to kill him. Why did she resort to it? Because her worthless boyfriend abandoned her. Are worthless, irresponsible men who barely deserve to live the number one cause of abortion? Yes, I think so.
And also…
Erin said: “You guys ever wonder why us atheists seem mad all the time? Let Greta explain why!”
So atheists are angry because they’re totally irrational and invent all kinds of bullcrap excuses to be angry for no good reason? My favorite part of her post:
“I get angry when religious believers make arguments against atheism — and make accusations against atheists — without having bothered to talk to any atheists or read any atheist writing.”
Pot, meet kettle. How about bothering to at least attempt to understand religion – ANY religion – before telling us why you’re so angry about it? Well, I’m angry that stupid atheists like the one who runs that blog waste our time with long, ignorant, meaningless posts.
I’d gladly vote for an atheist for president – a pro-life conservative atheist, that is. I would not vote for a snot-nosed far-left imbecile like the person who runs that blog, regardless of his or her religion.
No, carder, body-OWNERSHIP. The same thing that prevents me from taking one of your kidneys by force in order to save a patient’s life.
Bobbie: if you’ve enjoyed the blog, please stay and join us for more blogworld discussions. Your experience could enlighten many a conversation.
SoMG: Last I checked, my kidney’s fingers and toes weren’t developed enough to save a rat, let alone another patient.
SoMG, I’m intrigued by this idea of “body-ownership.” Is that anything like the philosophy that prevents you from jamming scissors into the base of my skull and suctioning my brains out?
As Executive Director of a Pregnancy Resource Center, the stories were all too familiar.
Kayla – Lack of emotional support is a primary cause for women choosing abortion. Unfortunately, many mothers encourage abortion. As a self-proclaimed Christian, the mother poorly reflected the Bible’s teaching on the sanctity of life. Instead of relying on the Scriptures to form her opinion, she and her daughter resorted to situational ethics. I have heard this numerous times in the counseling room.
Jeanne – I would like know more about the baby she “miscarried.” If you recall, Fox said they lost contact with her for 10 months. With her history, one wonders if Jeanne relapsed and contributed to the miscarriage.
On another note, adoption is rarely a viable option for mothers. Only about 1-2% of unplanned pregnancies ever result in an adoption plan. We have to become more proficient in communicating the benefits of adoption. However, this is difficult to do because the mothers and fathers with unplanned pregnancies generally look at everything from their perspective. The baby is not even considered.
Bobbie, I admire your sister, brother-in-law and your entire family. My sister had a baby that lived only a few weeks but he made a huge impact on all our lives. We would not be the people we are today without having had those few weeks with him.
I wish more people could see that EVERY life has a purpose and a lesson to teach. God bless you and your family.
Brian: On another note, adoption is rarely a viable option for mothers. Only about 1-2% of unplanned pregnancies ever result in an adoption plan.
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Doesn’t that drive you insane?
Teen girls, especially, get all kinds of peer pressure to keep babies they can’t provide for. The results are a disaster.
Laura said: “Teen girls, especially, get all kinds of peer pressure to keep babies they can’t provide for. The results are a disaster.”
So, of course, the only logical solution is to provide them with the help they need. The first source of help should be their families. If their families and friends cannot or will not help, the second line of defense would then be charities. Finally, the last line of defense would be a governmental safety net to which few would object.
Or we could just kill their child, but that would be kind of ridiculous, wouldn’t it?
Teen girls get all kinds of peer pressure to abort. That’s why they abort
They used to be pressured to get married, and guess what? That is what they did.
Interesting how society gets its choice.
Carder, you are wrong. If I could take one of your kidneys from you by force, I could save a patient’s life with it.
John L, as long as you are not residing in another person’s body without her continuing consent, you have nothing to fear from my scissors. If however you reside in another person’s body, and she wants you removed, you’re SOL. Not MORALLY VIABLE. Just like the patient who dies because you choose to keep both your kidneys.
Some lovely teen motherhood stats:
Babies of teen mothers have 21% higher probability of low birth weight, increasing possibilities for infant death, blindness, deafness, chronic respiratory problems, mental retardation, mental illness, and cerebral palsy. It doubles chances for dyslexia, hyperactivity, and other disabilities.1
Teen mothers start parenthood with few viable economic skills. Forty-one percent of mothers under 18 finish high school, compared to 61% of 20- to 21-year-old first mothers. A scant 1.5% of teen mothers earn a college degree by age 30.1
Making matters worse, in the past 25 years, the median income for college graduates increased 13%, while the median income for high school dropouts decreased 30%.1
Frighteningly, babies of high school dropouts have an eight times higher risk of being killed than those of college graduates.3
Teen mothers are mostly single parents. Eighty percent of fathers do not marry mothers and pay less than $800 annually in child support, important income for poor children.
Children living apart from fathers are five times more likely to be poor than children from two-parent homes. Children of uninvolved fathers are twice as likely to drop out of school, abuse alcohol or drugs or go to jail, and four times more likely to need help for emotional or behavioral problems.1
So, if teen mothers have no functional family of origin, no
Bad analogy
No one has kidney failure because of my action.
If I am pregnant, it is because of my action.
SoMG said: “If however you reside in another person’s body, and she wants you removed, you’re SOL.”
Ah… at long last, Lorena Bobbitt is justified.
“Babies of teen mothers have 21% higher probability of low birth weight”
21% of what number. Instead of 1 per thousand, 1.21 per thousand?
“Making matters worse, in the past 25 years, the median income for college graduates increased 13%, while the median income for high school dropouts decreased 30%.”
Biased statistic. Many get GED a little later, go back to school and improve situation. Then they are no longer classified as dropouts. Life doesn’t end at 18.
“Frighteningly, babies of high school dropouts have an eight times higher risk of being killed than those of college graduates.”
eight times higher that what? Instead of 1 killed per 100,000, it is 8 killed per 100,000. Unlike abortion which is 100,000 killed per 100,000.
“Teen mothers are mostly single parents. Eighty percent of fathers do not marry mothers and pay less than $800 annually in child support, important income for poor children.”
They aren’t poor teens forever. Many work their way up, meet a better guy, marry etc.
“Only 30% of married teen mothers stay married.”
Not that much worse than the rest of us. Still a better choice than abortion. At least they tried, and some succeeded.
“In reported incidents of abuse and neglect, 100 per 1,000 were families headed by teen mothers. The rate is less than half in families with new mothers in their 20s: 51 incidents per 1,000 families.1 Foster care placement is also significantly higher for children of teen mothers.”
According to this statistic 90% of teen moms have never been reported for neglect. 90% loving moms is better than abortion which is 0% loving.
Actually number of good teen moms is probably much higher since the 100 per 1,000 is of all neglect or abuse reports not of teen moms. Since so few families are reported, more like 99% are loving moms.
SoMG invites a family member into her house, and the minute he/she stays too long, its death by SoMG.
Think if SoMG has children they have heard the words,”If you don’t obey the rules of this house you’ll be out on the street faster then you can say abortion”.
Then again, SoMG might get hostile to anyone who threatens her body. Such as that fat accumulating about her as she ages and calls for the death of the butcher, the baker, and the donut maker. After all, she invited the food into her body, and now must blame someone for her inability to control herself.
What a touchy person, this SoMG. Pity the fool who she invites to touch her, and then murderers the “lasting memory” of that sweet touch.
Think her skin crawls when she is touched by a babies hand? Or does she ask the parent if the baby was wanted/planned before she will touch a babies hand?
Stop pushing for abortion. These women want their kids to live even if you don’t. It is their choice.
Posted by: Anonymous at October 28, 2007 12:57 AM
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If you go back a few posts you’ll find that I was frustrated by the huge number of teens that refuse to consider ADOPTION.
All the new research suggests that human beings don’t really reach emotional adulthood until age 26, and those with arrested development – like myself – take even longer.
I don’t think that terribly young women are mentally, emotionally, or financially equipped to handle motherhood. The stats bear me out.
All the new research suggests that human beings don’t really reach emotional adulthood until age 26, and those with arrested development – like myself – take even longer.
Have you read any of that research? I don’t mean an article by a reporter in some paper, but the study itself.
Yllas, you rant and rave because you know you cannot win the argument.
Laura,
Did you just advocate adoption instead of abortion?
*ouch* I just bumped my head getting up off of the floor, which I was on because I fell out of my chair!
Laura,
I noticed that you seem to be the only prochoicer that weighed in here. Perhaps the only one that watched the special.
I love the fact that you are open to hearing from both sides. Even if it’s just to “know thine enemy”, I congratulate you for watching the special.
Dr. Eric Keroack, who used to do abortions, is quoted in the same article: “It’s mind-boggling that a fetus is considered so precious that we spare no expense to save its life, and yet it’s so worthless that it can be legally disposed of.”
Carder, it’s not “mind-boggling,” it’s reality. It does not have to be one way or the other. It varies.
Doug
I watched a little of it the second time it came on, after the football games were over. Looked like a good show from what I saw.
Doug,
Helllllooooo…it’s the fact that it is reality that is mind boggling!
Bobbie, thanx so much for the link to your sister’s page. It’s beautiful.
From a Pro-Choice perspective, I have no problem at all with people continuing pregnancies, even in cases of Trisomy 18, etc.
Even if there is severe danger to the woman, some will want to keep going, and there too I don’t think I’m anybody to tell her not to do that.
I don’t think any of us should tell her not to do it, or should tell her to continue if she doesn’t want to.
Doug
Jill,
Thank you so much for your beautiful tribute to Marlee, it is deeply appreciated. I called my sister this morning and read it to her, and we were both crying. Brooke is so grateful. Her entire purpose with doing this show was to get Marlee’s story out there and to hopefully help at least one person. Brooke said if she could convince just one woman not to terminate her pregnancy, then she would feel like this show was a success. Marlee has already touched thousands of lives. In her very short time here on earth, she has accomplished more than some full-grown adults ever do in their entire lives. I lost my son at 20 weeks gestation, and never had a choice to make. Although the loss of my son was heart-breaking in and of itself, I am thankful that I was not faced with having to make the decisions that my sister and her husband faced. But Brooke will tell you herself that she doesn’t feel that she had any decisions to make either. Placing a child in a mother’s womb is only accomplished through the Hands of God. Our fate ultimately rests with Him, and He will decide when we leave this earth and enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Again, my sincerest gratitude for your beautiful tribute to our angel, Marlee Jonell Bridges.
God bless you,
Marlee’s very proud Aunt Bobbie
“Carder, you are wrong.”
But darling, it’s my valuation. Who are you to impose?
Brian: Checked out your link. Thanks for posting. You must be incredibly busy with your labor of love. Please keep posting as I dont’t think we have any CPC directors in our midst.
Just viewed the video, Bobbie. Can’t imagine anyone with a shred of humanity not shed a tear for the miracle of Marlee. She’s beautiful.
Wondering out loud…would Kayla watch it and still feel the same? NOT trying to demonize her, she should have been supported and not feel like she had no choice.
Both women shed tears, but the distinction speaks volumes.
From the video I’m gathering that Brooke was permitted to be with Marlee for as long as she needed. Was the OB and staff cooperative throughout?
But darling, it’s my valuation. Who are you to impose?
Carder, I think that’s the point. Is there a good enough reason to take your kidney? You likely think not. Same for women with unwanted pregnancies. They may well not think there is a good enough reason for them to continue them.
Yllas, you rant and rave because you know you cannot win the argument.
Posted by: SoMG at October 28, 2007 5:40 AM
I think it was a pretty good point. And I think the reason you didn’t rebut is because you also thought so.
Somg, winning an argument with you isn’t a very hard thing to do. What does Somg do when he can’t post facts? He disappears from the blog.
Bobbie,
Thank you so much for sharing the video of Marlee. What a beautiful little girl! God bless you and your entire family…Thank God we are here on Earth only a split second compared to eternity! I can’t wait to get to Heaven to meet Marlee…the beautiful girl whose short time here has touched so many lives. She is a testimony of God’s purpose for each and every one of us. And your family is a testimony of faith, enduring love, and God’s grace. Your entire family is in my prayers. God bless you all, as He has already, and will continue to do.
:)
Bobbie, thank you for a very touching video!
Marlee is just beautiful. I boo-hoo’ed through that entire video. Thank you so much for sharing her with us.
I had a little boy last year, born at 5months. He did not survive the delivery. I wish so much that my family had been there to meet him like Marlee’s family that surrounded her at her birth.
What a precious child. God bless that family.
Doug,
When the day comes that science biogically lumps kidneys and fetuses together in the same category, then maybe we can discuss good enough reasons.
Notice something?
It’s the prolifers on this thread that are thanking Brooke for sharing Marlee with us.
I’ll give PC the benefit of the doubt, they probably intend to thank her, maybe just not got around to it.
I won’t stop at Brooke. While I disagree with certain choices that were made, I must thank the other gals for exposing a slice of their lives on national television. Insight is always good.
When the “father” drove me to the abortion clinic ten years ago, we pulled in to the parking space, got out, and walked through the doors. No one was outside waiting to talk to me.
That minute from the car to the doors was the chance I wished I had. I was in college at the time. Imagine how few people there were to encourage me not to have an abortion. Imagine how many voices were telling me it the the mature thing to do. I wished so greatly even at the time that a comforting face were outside the clinic to help me.
No one.
If
Oh Catherine,
We’re here now. We try to be there every Saturday.
Please come back and talk to us. Or Email me privately.
If it were possible, I wish I had been there that day too, almost as much as you.
It’s not too late.
It’s never too late.
If…
Catherine, God forgives and heals. We must work to prevent what happened to you from happening to anyone else. Nobody should ever be abandoned to the abortion mill.
Dude. You guys are totally missing the point.
Bobbie, that is a beautiful baby. I am very happy that your sister made what was decided to be the in the best interests for herself and her family.
What is best for one family or woman in one situation is not necessarily best for every woman in that situation. Bobbie’s sister had the baby, and cherished the time that they had. That’s well, and good, and wonderful. Good for them. A woman who decides to abort, for her own reasons? That’s just as well and good. It’s a choice. It’s an option. A woman that chooses to have a child isn’t suddenly more worthy than a woman who chooses to abort. Both women have a choice to make, and both women make it. I say I wish well to both of them.
Erin, how about a woman who feels that she has no choice but to abort?
Catherine I too wish I had been there. You can do so much for women who are where you were that day.
Catherine is a beautiful name; I named my daughter Catherine after St. Catherine Laboure the Saint that was asked to make the Miraculous Medal by the Blessed Virgin. She was a humble woman who led a simple life and did great things for Christ. You also can do great things.
Erin,
A woman that chooses to have a child isn’t suddenly more worthy than a woman who chooses to abort.
She may not be more worthy, but she sure has my respect. And I cannot say the same for anyone that condones abortion.
Earlier we were talking about heroes. Brooke and her husband would be one of mine.
A woman that chooses abortion is about as far from having my respect as you can get. Like her? sure. Respect her. Never. Not unless she recognized her error and repented. In which case I would respect her a great deal. A very great deal.
I could not respect a man that preys on small children, beats his wife or drives drunk. I could not respect a woman that cheats on her husband, abandons her family or chooses abortion. I can’t even respect a woman who sees abortion as a viable choice, even if she has never had one herself.
I realize that makes me sound self righteous, but we’re not talking about love here. We are talking about respect and they are two very different things. I could love the worst human being in history. But I might not respect them.
Thank you all so much for all of your kind words. I told my sister, Brooke, about this site this morning and she is looking forward to reading all of your comments. She does not have internet access at home, but she checks her email, etc. regularly from my home or my parent’s home. All of your thoughts and comments are deeply appreciated. Like I said before, if the live of just one child can be saved through Marlee’s story, then sharing her story has been a success. God bless you all, Bobbie
Adopted, yet “would never give my kid up for adoption.” Don’t get that.
Let me try and help you out, Jill. As an adoptee, I have run into tons of people who have had lousy lives with their adoptive parents, and have built this long running fantasy in their mind that if the crack-whore who gave them birth hadn’t given them up, their lives would have turned out like “leave it to Beaver”.
They are a self-fulfilling prophecy, and have become the people they hate.
I, on the other hand, love my parents (I don’t think of the woman who gave me birth or the associated sperm donor as “parents”) and have absolutely no interest in searching out my genetic parents.
The title “mom” and “dad” come from doing a job with your child on a day to day basis. Not doing the horizontal bop once.
Kayla wanted to keep her baby. She didn’t want to kill him. Why did she resort to it? Because her worthless boyfriend abandoned her. Are worthless, irresponsible men who barely deserve to live the number one cause of abortion? Yes, I think so.
I think the huge question is… why are women sleeping with guys like that?
Tony,
I too was adopted, and was very lucky to have been adopted by Ward and June. I searched out my birth parents, only to find out my mother has multiple serious mental illnesses, my father was an alcoholic and died of liver disease, and my brother is a pedophile. Talk about being grateful! (On a high note, my sister is awesome and we have grown very, very close)
Ironically, my father had gotten another woman pregnant (his future wife) at the same time he got my mother pregnant (his wife at the time). My mother, even in the throws of her illness, managed to choose to give me up for adoption, while his mistress aborted the child she was carrying…
This close I was to not being on this blog. Or anywhere else for that matter. Of course it’s possible that my mother didn’t abort me out of spite, but hey, I’ll take it! lol
There but for the grace of God go I.
That video was very sad. :(
Rae,
Sad? yes. But also life affirming, filled with joy, hope and so much love.
Doesn’t every child deserve what Marlee had. To be wanted. So simple. Just to be wanted.
During last nights show, I heard Brooke say that she wanted a slew of children. I hope this is not the last time we hear from her. I hope she comes back on in a year, and then two years and then three years to share the story of Marlees brothers and sisters…
“Weeping may endure for the night. But Joy cometh in the morning” Psalms 30:5
@MK: I would like to think so, yes. I hope Brooke does get a slew of wee younglings too.
I still think it’s very sad though, but I’m glad people can see the good and hope that can come from something like this.
I hope she comes back on in a year, and then two years and then three years to share the story of Marlees brothers and sisters…
“Weeping may endure for the night. But Joy cometh in the morning” Psalms 30:5
Posted by: mk at October 28, 2007 5:44 PM
I hope so too!
@Rae,
true,true but the incredible love and joy found by just being present. No doubt everyone there shed numerous tears … but shedding that protective wall invites others to console.
The above can be found at boisterous Irish wakes, especially if the deceased was much loved.
@John: I know. :) I always have a hard time seeing the good things that come out of sad things. I keep trying though, it just takes some time to realize it.
^_^
For the record, I darn well want an Irish funeral, people aren’t going to be all mopey and sad. They are going to bloody party! :)
Tim Finnegan lived in Walkin Street, a gentle Irishman mighty odd
He had a brogue both rich and sweet, an’ to rise in the world he carried a hod
You see he’d a sort of a tipplers way but the love for the liquor poor Tim was born
To help him on his way each day, he’d a drop of the craythur every morn
Whack fol the dah now dance to yer partner around the flure yer trotters shake
Wasn’t it the truth I told you? Lots of fun at Finnegan’s Wake
One morning Tim got rather full, his head felt heavy which made him shake
Fell from a ladder and he broke his skull, and they carried him home his corpse to wake
Rolled him up in a nice clean sheet, and laid him out upon the bed
A bottle of whiskey at his feet and a barrel of porter at his head
Whack fol the dah now dance to yer partner around the flure yer trotters shake
Wasn’t it the truth I told you? Lots of fun at Finnegan’s Wake
His friends assembled at the wake, and Mrs Finnegan called for lunch
First she brought in tay and cake, then pipes, tobacco and whiskey punch
Biddy O’Brien began to cry, “Such a nice clean corpse, did you ever see,
Tim avourneen, why did you die?”, “Will ye hould your gob?” said Paddy McGee
Whack fol the dah now dance to yer partner around the flure yer trotters shake
Wasn’t it the truth I told you? Lots of fun at Finnegan’s Wake
Then Maggie O’Connor took up the job, “Biddy” says she “you’re wrong, I’m sure”
Biddy gave her a belt in the gob and left her sprawling on the floor
Then the war did soon engage, t’was woman to woman and man to man
Shillelagh law was all the rage and a row and a ruction soon began
Whack fol the dah now dance to yer partner around the flure yer trotters shake
Wasn’t it the truth I told you? Lots of fun at Finnegan’s Wake
Mickey Maloney ducked his head when a bucket of whiskey flew at him
It missed, and falling on the bed, the liquor scattered over Tim
Bedad he revives, see how he rises, Timothy rising from the bed
Saying “Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t’underin’ Jaysus, do ye think I’m dead?”
Whack fol the dah now dance to yer partner around the flure yer trotters shake
Wasn’t it the truth I told you? Lots of fun at Finnegan’s Wake
Did anyone else wonder, with Jeanne, the second woman …. at first she was pregnant with #6, reported to be 14weeks pregnant when they last interviewed her, then she disappeared. When they caught up w/ her again she said she miscarried . . . had felt cramping, went to the hospital, and dr gave her a D&C.
Part of me wonders if she was being truthful about that. I do not want to assume the worst of people, but I know from my own personal experience that if you miscarry in the second trimester the baby is too large for a D&C. So they induce your labor and let you deliver the baby. The only other option I’m guessing would be a D&E.
Maybe I’m wrong. I suppose there’s a chance if it were a “missed” miscarriage, meaning the baby died many weeks sooner with no symptoms of a miscarriage, that would make sense. Then even if she should’ve been well into her second trimester the baby still would’ve been small enough to do a D&C.
I dunno…. anybody else have thoughts on this?
Brooke,
If you read this, I just wanted to let you know that I think you are so courageous for going on that show for the reason that you did! When I read Bobbi’s post and Jill’s update this morning, then watched the video, I haven’t been able to get Marlee & your entire family out of my thoughts and prayers all day. You are a blessed woman to have God in your life, a loving, comforting family, and such a loving, protective husband (I can see it in his eyes). I know that your wish was to save at least one life from Marlee’s journey, but I am confident that it will be MANY, MANY more than you could ever imagine! Please stay strong in the Lord….I am so proud of you & your family! :)
Kristi, the fetus would have been expelled from the uterus during the miscarriage. Hence no D&E necessary. Just a D&C to get rid of any retained placental tissue.
Kristi,
I do believe you are correct, my lillte girl was 22 weeks when she passed away and they induced me. They only talked about a D&C when I couldn’t pass the placenta(too drugged up). Thankfully the pitocin worked. I hate to call the woman a liar, but….
Wow. When I posted earlier, I had this sick feeling that the responses to me would be criticism–that I should take responsibility for my own actions and choices and not ask others to have shown up at the clinic to talk me out of my decisions. Indeed I certainly consider my decisions the result of my sinful, weak heart that was unwilling to trust God’s grace in the situation.
Thank you ever so much Mk, John, and Kristen for responding to my post with such gentleness and compassion. The love expressed in your words means so much to me.
The Lord is faithful and has blessed me since then with a Christian husband and two children.
I didn’t actually intend to highlight myself this much! But it is just now occurring to me that I should be that person outside the clinic waiting for the person like me. Hmmm. . . .
Thank you all again.
Kristi, the fetus would have been expelled from the uterus during the miscarriage. Hence no D&E necessary. Just a D&C to get rid of any retained placental tissue.
Posted by: SoMG at October 28, 2007 8:52 PM
I understand this is the case for early (1st trimester) miscarriages, but this woman, Jeanne, was at least 14 weeks along (most likely further), when the pregnancy ended. At that point the baby is usually too large to “pass” naturally and/or to be suctioned using D&C.
I personally had a pregnancy, last year, at which I presented w/ “imminent miscarriage” at 14 weeks. My OB explained to me that D&C was not an option due to the size and development of the baby at 14 weeks, that they would instead induce labor and deliver after we lost the heartbeat. Thank God my son hung on a little longer, but when he died at almost 20 weeks I delivered him at the hospital.
D&C can’t be done past about 12 weeks, for the same reasons that the “suction aspiration” abortion procedure (very similar) can’t be done past about 12 weeks. At that point a D&E would be required.
I guess it is possible that Jeanne could’ve given birth to the baby at home by herself and then gone to the hospital to remove placental tissue … maybe that’s what you’re trying to say SoMG. But that’s pretty unlikely I would think.
Maybe Jill can shead some light on this w/ her nursing experience….
Kristi,
I do believe you are correct, my lillte girl was 22 weeks when she passed away and they induced me. They only talked about a D&C when I couldn’t pass the placenta(too drugged up). Thankfully the pitocin worked. I hate to call the woman a liar, but….
Posted by: rosie at October 28, 2007 8:56 PM
Rosie I’m so sorry for the loss of your little girl. I lost my son at almost 20 weeks last year, so I know your pain.
There is so much sadness in this world.
His friends assembled at the wake, and Mrs Finnegan called for lunch
First she brought in tay and cake, then pipes, tobacco and whiskey punch
Biddy O’Brien began to cry, “Such a nice clean corpse, did you ever see,
Tim avourneen, why did you die?”, “Will ye hould your gob?” said Paddy McGee
MK, sounds like an authentic “reel, ” a la Irish or Scottish.
“I stepped out, and you stepped in again,
I stepped out, and you stepped in again.
I stepped out, and you stepped in again,
Dancin’ the reel at MaryKay’s ball…”
Carder: Doug, When the day comes that science biogically lumps kidneys and fetuses together in the same category, then maybe we can discuss good enough reasons.
Oh no – you said, “Who are you to impose,” and the question is the same.
SoMg, you big hunk of Edward Scissorhands. You invite a person into you by having sexual relations. And you might invite a person into your house, who might not leave when you want them to. Such as a aged parent,cousin, friend.
Both might be considered mistakes(your choice to invite them into your bodystyle) after they have arrived at your invitation to be part of your “bodystyle.”
Both eat your food, use your house, use your money, and use your body, by the simple fact that you spend time with them.
For one who has entered your touchy life, it is death for being foolish to be invited by your need to be touched.
Those who you invited into your house(cousin,friend,etc.) and overstayed, say by 9 months, are simply removed by your waking them with a pair of scissors in your hand, I assume.
They get the message and run as quickly as they can to avoid the “loving touch” of SoMG.
But, you wouldn’t murder the overstaying guest SoMG, simply because it means you are a murderer before the law.
Hey SoMG, were those overstaying relatives at your house named Vincent and Ida Smith who owned a motel named HELLO, with the “O” burned out? So when you saw their motel sign it read Motel Hell.
Did you teach Vincent the secret to his famous “smoked meat”? And finally SoMG, did you teach Ida that tune known as “just keeping the planet beautiful”?
Come clean SoMG, admit your moniker here is a abbreviation for Smith’s Original Meat and Gardening.
Hey SoMG, were those overstaying relatives at your house named Vincent and Ida Smith who owned a motel named HELLO, with the “O” burned out? So when you saw their motel sign it read Motel Hell.
Did you teach Vincent the secret to his famous “smoked meat”? And finally SoMG, did you teach Ida that tune known as “just keeping the planet beautiful”?
Posted by: yllas at October 29, 2007 1:45 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hey Yllas-
It’s me, Laura…
I’m peering out at you right now from the darkness of your closet.
Whenever I hear the “tap tap tap” of your fingers on the keyboard, I lick your clothing.
Do NOT turn out the light before throwing food in this closet!
Great movie, MOTEL HELL.
How can you invite someone who doesn’t exist yet?
The fetus is still better off, even if it gets aborted, than it would be if it had never been conceived. It gets a few weeks of intrauterine life. Whereas the one who is never conceived gets nothing.
“It takes all kinds of critters
To make Farmer Vincent’s fritters!”
Another terrific movie is SOCIETY, directed by Brian Yuzna (of RE-ANIMATOR fame.)
Catherine,
You could also post here, and share you’re insights with girls (and men) that need to hear you words.
Your thoughts would be invaluable. I hope you stick around. Not only will it help heal any residual wounds, it will also help the women here to understand the pain of abortion.
Many here claim that there is no wounding involved. They deny Post Abortion Syndrome. They claim that it’s just a choice like any other choice.
If you could be the voice, that speaks out about the pain and guilt that goes with having an abortion, and all the sneaky ways it can manifest itself, you would be doing a GREAT service.
Just being willing to answer questions would be awesome.
Be aware however, that this is a site where BOTH sides are represented and some of the words that you hear might be painful. But if they aren’t spoken, then the truth just gets buried deeper and deeper.
Of course you can stand out at clinics too. You’d be awesome. Nothing speaks to people quite like “I’ve been there” and no one but someone who HAS been there, can understand what is going through these women’s minds on the way into the clinic.
You are courageous, and wise. God bless you, and re my other post…YOU have my respect.
Hope to see you on here regularly.
MK
SoMG,
How can you invite someone who doesn’t exist yet?
*
The fetus is still better off, even if it gets aborted, than it would be if it had never been conceived. It gets a few weeks of intrauterine life. Whereas the one who is never conceived gets nothing.
In some ways, you know, people that don’t exist, are much nicer than people that do. (The Letters of Lewis Carroll)
You are a very, very sad man.
There goes SoMG again, one minute SoMG is complaining how that invited guest(from her desire to be touched) is eating off her body(the human being in the womb), the next minute, the baby/human being is “someone who doesn’t exist yet”.
Yep, your related to Vincent and Ida Smith. One minute a human being existed, the next minute, Ida was “seeing” someone who was “smoked meat.”
On the other hand, ever have a DREAM SoMG about being in a TUNNEL with Akira Kurosawa?
As for the movie Society, you might recognize yourself SoMg, as the character Ferguson. Working for Malthus and the rich who feed off the poor, “turns one inside out”. Right, Smith’s Original Meat and Gardening?
A true story about dreams for SoMG.
A women I knew, and worked with, was committed to abortion. She did the volunteer work of helping young women into the abortion mill. She believed in abortion with a passion. She was a typical women who had one child and was divorced.
She detested the father of the male child for all the typical reasons women who are divorced have. Ask SoMg, she can rattle them off.
Of course this women, also had the typical drug problem that women such as her have. She could work, but the weekends were devoted to the party life.
Her son picked up a drug habit, since mom simply partyed with him since he was born.
One day, this women came into work and was agitated more then normal. It was a Monday. She began to talk about a dream she had that was stuck in her head. Seems she had a “nightmare” about her being in bed sleeping, when she was awoken by little babies crawling up on the bed trying to touch her. “Neva”(the name of the women having the dream), “Neva”, the babies cryed out, while they tried to touch her.
Neva tryed to get out of bed but could not, while the babies continued to get closer, and closer trying to touch her in her dream. A typical mightmare, where one trys to move, but cannot move away from the approaching terror or harm.
Neva told me, “she knew it was a dream, but she could not awake from the dream until she awoke herself by yelling out”. What that yelling was, she never told me.
She quit work and I heard Neva lost her son a month later to a heroin overdose.
A week later, Neva was found dead from the same act, a heroin overdose. Some friends say she committed suicide. Neva never figured out what the dream meant.
God have mercy on her soul.
And I’m sure that up until the day she died, she denied PAS, the immorality of abortion, and the Truth that not only is there a God, but that He loves her.
God have mercy on her soul.
yllas, thank you for that post. Thank you. That hit me.
Yllas, 10/28, 1:45a, said: “SoMg, you big hunk of Edward Scissorhands.” Great line.
Brian, 10/27, 11:38p: First, *wave*. (I spoke at Brian’s prc banquet 1.5 weeks ago.) Second, thanks for explaining the other side to the psyche and behavior of moms #1 and #2.
Jeanne said something very telling at the end: “I don’t know why I keep getting pregnant, and it’s like an empty feeling when you’re not. I don’t know. Probably because I’ve been pregnant so many times, so I’ve gotten kind of used to that rather than not being pregnant.”
So apparently she gets pregnant on purpose, even though she does not have custody of her 5 surviving children. Don’t quite get it. Maybe someone else does.
Kristi, 10/28, 9:41p, asked about Jeanne’s baby, from the Fox News story… Sorry, but the story does not say whether she aborted, miscarried naturally, or her baby died en utero but had to be removed medically or surgically. There are many possible scenarios.
Bobbie, 10/28, 8:22a: Ah, I did not connect that you were the husband of Brooke’s sister-in-law who lost her baby, too. I’m very sorry, Bobbie. And I’m touched that words we say on this blog could bring Brooke comfort. She brought me comfort, actually. I got involved in this movement by the short life and death of a handicapped baby who was aborted for being handicapped. This issue is very close to me. Brooke and Tom are showing the way to many, many other couples who are given similar tragic diagnoses.
Catherine, 10/28, 9:31p: I join you in commending MK, John, and Kristen for comforting and encouraging you as you work through your abortion rather than condemning you. I love my peeps and am proud of them and you… :)
Kristi and Rosie, I am so sorry to hear both of your sad stories. You will both be in my prayers.
Actually, I’m not the husband, or brother, etc. I am a girl and I am Brooke’s older sister. I can see where the confusion comes in due to my name, and I usually don’t correct people for minor infractions, etc. However, I was beginning to feel the necessity of explaining a bit about myself. Like I said, I am Brooke’s older sister, by about 7 years. I am a single mother of two beautiful children and also lost a son at 20 weeks gestation. I am a physician assistant and work in an emergency room in central Illinois. I would be happy to answer any questions any of you may have. I really appreciate all of the kind comments on this site and all of you who have visited Marlee’s website. Again, thank you. I will look forward to keeping up with the conversations on this site in the upcoming days.
Bobbie,
Brook is certainly blessed to have you. And you are certainly blessed to have her.
What is the little boys name that you lost? (I hate that phrase…he’s not lost, we know exactly where he is…)
Can’t you just see him and Marlee meeting for the first time and carrying on the beautiful family relationship that you guys share here on earth.
How awesome that neither one has to be alone. Perhaps that was God’s plan all along. Two saints, saved from loneliness, praying for the family. Sinless and pure and able to speak directly to Our Lord…gives me shivers.
MK
MK, I just e-mailed you.
Bobbie, ah, ok, the dots connect more still. You were shown in the documentary?
Jill,
Bobbie said in an earlier post on this blog:
“My name is Bobbie, and I am Brooke’s sister (the third woman portrayed in the documentary). Marlee belonged to my sister and her husband, Tom. Not to Jeanne. Sorry if I sound rude, it’s just that the past few months have been very hard for our family and I just want everyone to know how special Marlee was to all of us, and not confuse her with the child of one of the other women on the show.”
Bless Tom and Brooke for letting God and their beautiful Marlee decide her time to take the journey to heaven.
I sit on a steering committee for a pregnancy and infant loss conference. We just completed our third annual this last Friday. The conference is designed to educate caregivers who come in contact with parents and families experiencing loss. We have come a long way, but still have much work to do.
The caregivers who attend our conference say they are best educated by parents like yourselves who are willing to open their lives and share their stories.
Marlee is such a gift. Thank you for allowing your story to be told.
Bobbie, bless you too.
Sandy,
“We have come a long way, but still have much work to do.”
That is true, I really wanted to smack one of the nurses that was there when I lost my daughter. She waited until my husband left and then posed a question in a way that made it seem like she thought it was my fault. I had never been so livid.
Marlee is exceptionally beautiful!
Marlee is beautiful. She’ll be praying for her family from up in Heaven.
Yes, I was shown in the documentary a few times. I was interviewed (I was wearing a black sweater and glasses) and then I was also shown picking strawberries with my sister and sitting in the backyard with my mom and sister.
My little boy’s name is Samuel Clarence Miller. He was named after his great-grandfathers. He passed away on October 27, 2000. (The Fox show aired on October 27, exactly 7 years to the day after Samuel gained his wings). We still do not know why Samuel didn’t make it. We had testing done but were never given a reason other than his heart stopped beating. I had went to the doctor for a routine check-up between 18 and 20 weeks and they couldn’t find a heart beat with the doppler so they did an ultrasound and discovered that he had passed away. At that point I was sent to another hospital for a D&E. If I had known then what I do now I would have refused to have the D&E and would have went through labor induction and delivered him. However, at that point I was so distraught that I just wanted it all to be over with. I couldn’t imagine going through up to 24 hours of labor knowing that my little boy had died.
But, we all make decisions in our lives that we later regret and wish we could go back in time and change those things. They are lessons in our lives. That is why we make mistakes. If we never made mistakes, never made wrong decisions, we would never learn and grow as human beings.
We all feel it would be wonderful to live in a world where all was right and horrible things never happened. But how we we accomplish what God has put us on earth to do? Really, in God’s eyes, there are no mistakes. Even all of the horrible things that we hear on television, even all of the atrocities that occur every minute of every day. There is a reason and purpose behind every one of them. We may not know the reason, we may not understand, we cannot begin to comprehend the rationality of these events, but I know that one day we will. All will be explained and we will be at peace. How else can we continue to live happy lives in a world filled with unspeakable horrors and evil corruption.
Every action we make, every thought that we have, is all recorded. It is all a test. An experiment of sorts. God wants his children to do right and live holy lives. But he knows that we will make mistakes and learn along the way. When we have children, at some point we must let them go and watch from a distance, knowing that they will make wrong decisions along the way, and praying that they will learn from those mistakes and return to us better people for the experiences and lessons they have encountered along the way. I believe that this is what God is doing as well. He has to let us go and watch from a distance hoping that we will learn and return to him when we are ready to enter the kingdom of Heaven.
Some of us, like Marlee and Samuel, are ready to return much sooner than others.
An extraordinary thing happened on the way home from Marlee’s funeral. My four year old son, Blaine, was sitting in in his car seat as we were driving home, and he looked up at the sky and said, “Mommy, you see those clouds up there in the sky?”, and I said “yes baby, I see the clouds”, and he said, “Do you see them playing?” and I said, “who?”, and he replied, “Samuel and Marlee. See? They are up there playing on the clouds!” He continued staring out the window for several minutes, smiling, like he could really see them up there playing.
Children are remarkable. Sometimes I believe them to possess wisdom much greater than we can ever comprehend.
I want to thank everyone for all of the wonderful comments and all of the support. It has meant a lot to me and my family. I now know that Marlee will always live on in the hearts of many. I am truely proud of my baby girl. Thanks again!!
Tom, Brooke and Adam Bridges
Fainting
(By Catherine)
Released now from that machine
Brooke, I mailed you something today. My son decorated the envelope.
I wonder if it seems odd to you that so many strangers–like me– feel they know you. I do care for you and appreciate that you told us your story.
Thank you to Brooke and Bobbie for sharing your stories with us. I agree w/ what Catherine said above — it’s weird that strangers feel they know you! But I do feel like we’re kindred spirits in a way, sisters in Christ, who know the pain of loving and losing a tiny child. Isn’t it amazing, too, how such a little person, here for such a short time, can have a profound impact on so many? It blows me away.
My son, Isaac, was born around 20 weeks gestation on September 2, 2006. His funeral was Sept 6. Among the many friends and family who attended his funeral was my husband’s young uncle, Alton. He was 31, married with a 1-year old little girl. His wife later told me that after sitting through my son’s funeral, Alton expressed a desire to start attending church. So the next Sunday they went. A few weeks later, on October 8th, he received salvation and made a public profession of faith, then was baptised on October 22. On December 5, he died tragically in a car accident. It was only then that his wife shared with me, how my son’s death had sparked his desire to go to church, where he ultimately heard the gospel and gave his life to Christ.
I am in awe when I think about how God used my little boy’s very short life in this way. And I believe wholeheartedly that He has great purpose for Marlee and Samuel’s lives too.
I know how much it hurts not having them with you.
Bless you ladies,
kristi :)
Catherine, that poem was amazing. Thank you so much for opening up and sharing your deepest feelings. You are so courageous!
Wishing you peace and healing.
Thank you so much, Kristi. And thank you for your story about Alton and about Isaac. I must add this verse here. Maybe many of us know it. But it is so worth repeating
Jer 29:11 (NIV)
“For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”
Catherine,
My heart goes out to you. Have you heard of or are you involved with Silent No More, an organization of post abortive women?
You sound so sad that I can only hope you are getting some kind of support. I’m sure if you googled the name you could find a website and maybe some local members.
Good luck to you. Always know you have the love and support of the people on this blog.
Catherine, that is one GREAT poem.
I don’t agree with all of it, and most women don’t feel that way, but it’s vivid and descriptive of feelings to the max.
Doug
Thank you Mary and Doug. I have healed tremendously since. Being blessed with the ability to write (I hope that sounds humble–probably not, sorry) brought me so much healing.
Doug, you put a lot into your last comment, though it is a short one. I posted this poem on a poetry forum and boy did an explosive conversation follow. What surprised me the most was that people thought that I was insisting that everyone should agree with my poem’s conclusions. But I don’t think that poems are only valuable if the reader agrees with them. I am just telling my story and expressing my own guilt that followed.
It seems you understand that my intent was not to attack anyone else’s conclusions. Thanks again, Doug and Mary.
Jer 29:11 (NIV)
“For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”
Posted by: Catherine at October 29, 2007 2:59 PM
so true, so true, so true!!!
Catherine,
When I read your post I was reminded of a program I saw on TV about a couple seeking an abortion. The woman was pregnant with her third child, and she had a tomcat for a husband.
She was obviously distressed and ambivalent, and was having this abortion in a desperate attempt to save her marriage. Who was on this woman’s side or saw her pain and ambivalence?
Certainly not her husband who could only treat her with the coldest indifference. You would think he could offer his wife a supportive arm or a kind word. He could only grunt when questioned, I don’t think he could say words with more than one syllable, and he never indicated he planned to give up his lady friends.
Certainly not the “nurse” who yammered incessently at this woman but said little.
Certainly not the abortionist who first met the still distraugt and ambivalent woman when she was up in stirrups. Cracking gum, his only words were “you sure about this?”
Afterward, the still distraught woman is reunited with her cold and indifferent husband and the yammering nurse. Her advise to the woman was to go home and rest and for her husband to “treat her like a queen, throw a pizza in the oven”. That probably IS his idea of treating his wife like a queen.
I remember how my heart just ached for this poor woman. Yet the program proudly presented this as a “choice”. Was I the only one who could see what was really going on?
Your poem made me think of her again. I wonder how many women like you and I believe her wished that someone had been there for them.
“Oh no – you said, “Who are you to impose,” and the question is the same.”
Posted by: Doug at October 29, 2007 1:40 AM
My comment to SoMG was meant in sarcasm.
I’ll try to be a little more obvious next time.
“Oh no – you said, “Who are you to impose,” and the question is the same.”
Carder: My comment to SoMG was meant in sarcasm.
I’ll try to be a little more obvious next time.
Not a problem, Carder. In neither case is said imposition warranted.
Doug
It seems you understand that my intent was not to attack anyone else’s conclusions.
Catherine, I didn’t know that or even necessarily think that, but there is a pure sense of true emotion in your poem that is undeniable, in my opinion. Now, I do believe that you meant no attack, of any sort.
I am probably the biggest arguer on earth, but feelings can’t be argued – they simply are.
If anything, I’d say that there is a white-hot, brightly burning sense of your own feelings in the poem, way beyond most of the baloney we see in arguments, from both sides, in the abortion debate. And it’s not all “baloney,” but I think your poem simply goes beyond the argument.
Some might think “excessive drama” or “hyperbole” but IMO your feelings shine right through that. It might sound excessive on my part, but I think we are all enriched from reading what you wrote.
I am sorry that things worked out the way they did for you, but also grateful for your honesty. You are a fine person and a fine poet.
Doug
Doug, your analysis puts words to my own struggle to explain “Fainting.” Thank you. Your post will always be valuable to me since you have added another layer to how I understand my own poem.
I’ll never put “Fainting” in a drawer and forget about it. When I think about my abortion, I find myself meditating on this poem.
I often wish I understood how different people truly feel about their own abortions. Not what they often say–“I have no regrets, it was the best thing for everyone.” But what is the purest expressions of their souls.
I think people feel that the conclusion “It was the best decision”
contradicts the idea that “nevertheless it was horrible.” I think people are afraid to feel both things at the same time. Or not. I don’t know! I guess I’m still confused about how one does not feel guilt about such a thing.
Thank you, again, Doug for your words.
Catherine
Thank you Heather.
Most young people get a puzzled look on their face,when I tell my true story about Neva and her dream.
This might be from knowing young people who mostly have no religion, to religion that has “no meaning” in their life.
But, this post is about those who have given birth to a child who has died.
One of the most moving words written in literature about mothers and their babies that have died is within Dostoevsky’s, The Brothers Karamazov, book 2,chapter 3; Peasant Women Who Have Faith. How women had “a terrible illness to which women are subject,especially prevalent among us in Russia, and that it is due to the hard lot of the peasant women. It is a disease, I was told, arising from exhausting toil to soon after hard, abnormal and unassisted labor in childbirth, and from the hopeless misery, from beatings, and so on, which some women were not able to endure like others”.
When Father Zossima ask a woman why she is weeping begins a classic tale of redemption of sorrow and the death of babies having a purpose . ” It is my little son I’m grieving for Father. He was only three years old- three years all but three months. For my little boy Father, I am in anguish for my little boy. He was the last one left. We had four, my Nikita and I, and now we have no children…”
How her husband has begun drinking and how she has “forgotten him”. “I’ve forgotten everything. I don’t want to remember” she says to the Father.
How the Father Zossima redeems/makes sense of her inconsolable grief and weeping is unknown in todays literature and times.
“It is Rachel of old” said the Father, “weeping for her children…..”. Weep and not be consoled, but weep. Only remember everytime that you weep be sure to remember that your little son is one of the angels of God, and that he looks down from there and sees you, and rejoices at your tears, and points at them at the Lord God; and a long while yet will you keep that mother’s grief. But it will turn in the end into quiet joy, and your bitter tears will only be tears of tender sorrow that purifies the heart and delievers it from sin.
How the Father gets the mother filled with grief to go back to the father of her children by telling her “Your little one will see you from heaven that you have foresaken his father and will weep over you.” “Why do you trouble his happiness?”
“He comes to you in your dreams now, and you grieve. But then he will send you gentle dreams.”
Father Zossima was modeled off St. Seraphim of Sarov, who had hundreds to thousands of peasants and rich, seek him out daily. The monastery Of Sarov dated back to 1664.
Interesting enough, the monastery was converted into a arms factory making Katuysha rockets, when the bolsheviks came to power. The monks were murdered of course. Later, Sarov became a nuclear weapons research/factory.
Today Russia is begging for babies, even offering a free washing machine to induce women to reproduce. They won’t.
You never know Heather, Father Zossima might be smiling at your work trying to heal the wounds of abortion, and the death of the young. And for Smith’s Original Meat and Gardening? Maybe Father Zossima will come to SoMG in a dream asking why one has hands that are made of scissors.
yllas, your story about Neva and “the dream” has been on my mind. I wonder if Somg will ever experience one. I can only hope so.
Im only 19 … this wasn’t supposed to happen to me. The babys father and I broke up and it turned out that he was cheating on me and I didn’t even know it. A week after I found out that I was pregnant, my decision was already made with no questions asked. I knew what I had to do and it was probably the most heart wrenching decision I will most likely ever have to make in my life. I found out that I was 6 weeks and four days along. I went in to the place a week before to make sure I was in fact pregnant. The babys father went with me and pretended to be so supportive of what was going on. They had taken a sonogram and given me a picture of the baby. That’s the only memory I have of hIm/her. I kind of want it to be a girl so well refer to the baby as her instead of it. ANYWAYS, I always have this reoccurring dream. I went away to school because everyone thought that it would be the best thing for me to keep busy and occupied. It didn’t work. I had morning sickness and missed classes. Now, all this is true. The dream I constantly have is that I am laying in my bed and my roommate listens to the radio, so I know that I had to turn it down and I SWEAR to all of you that I was up and the night before the termination, I rented Here on Earth, at the end of the movie theres a music video for Nick Lachey & Jessica SImpsons song “Where you are” I just sat there and replayed the song and just cried and cried. So, when I got out of bed, the radio was already off and there was this little, tiny, beautiful little girl who had the features of me and her father. She was beautiful. She was standing at the radio with this song playing and she was smiling and she looked at me with her fathers eyes and smiled and said “Dont be scared Mommy, Im okay now, REALLY, I love you still dont worry and youll always be my mommy” and she had the cutest little laugh and she winked and ran out the door and i sat on the floor crying to myself and all I could think of was that she was okay and she knows I didn’t want to do it and I do love her … forever.
Every night I have a different dream but it always starts the same way.
I see myself going into the operating room and I see the nurse getting everything ready and I watch her strap my legs into the stirrups and I see the doctors coming in and putting the IV’s into my arms, then it goes to my nightmare.
Like I said they are always different every night but they always include my 2 year old daughter. And in every dream something bad is going to happen to her and I’m trying to save her but it seems like I can never get to her in enough tIme no matter what I do. Right at the point of my dream where it seems like I’m going to get to her to save her I wake up so I never know if I’m going to save her or not.
One of them is me and my daughter are eating at a dinner outside on the patio and were surround by woods. While were eating we see smoke coming from a few miles away, someone comes out of the dinner and says we have to leave theres a forest fire and its coming are way. I turn to get my daughter and I cant find her anywhere. SO I start looking for her and I see her going into the woods I yell to her and she turns around and runs back towards me so I go to get her and a crowd of people block my way, after I finally get to her I run down a hill to are car and get her in the car and we start to drive away as where driving a tree falls down in our path and we have to stop the car so i get her out of the car and try to run with her but somehow she gets out of my arms and runs into the woods right where the fire is, I run after her and I can feel it getting hotter, I feel like I’m going into hell, right at the point where I can grab her arm I wake up.
Another one is I am following my husband in my car and he’s in front of me in his car with my daughter and I watch them get into a accident as I get out of the car to run over to help pull them out I smell gas and my husband gets out but as I’m trying to pull my daughter from the car I wake up so I never know if I saved her or not.
I’ve had so many dreams since my abortion three weeks ago, but the one that i remember most vividly that really touched me emotionally and troubled me the most is the one I’ll be sharing with you today: I know my parents would be devastated if they found out that their innocent 17 year old daughter had an abortion, so i never told them about it… i dreamt, however,that they found out about it.. my dad reacted the way that i knew he would.. he was embarrassed and just disappointed to the point that he couldn’t look at me… but my mom… oh my mom’s reaction really was something… she rushed me to the hospital to try to see if they could somehow bring the baby back.. that maybe there was a chance that it would still be alive…. i cried in my sleep… my mom wanted my baby to be alive, and the only reason why i had terminated it in the beginning was because i thought that she wouldn’t have wanted me to keep it…. so it was as if i killed my baby for nothing… i cried so hard that i woke up and discovered that my pillow was soaked… i cried the following days… it was a very painful dream.
Before I had the abortion I had one recurrent dream- that I had to tell my child that their father didn’t want them, that she had “no daddy.” Since the procedure, I’ve seen my little girl as a toddler in a white T-shirt and diaper. I also dream about the ultrasound and how I felt when I saw it (the ultrasound). As I am working through my hatred for the father, I dream of hIm less frequently, but he reports seeing body parts in the corners of his room usually in the middle of the night when it is dark. He’s so apathetic these days, I don’t really buy his story. I also see my child growing up and us talking. I never have scary dreams about the abortion except that I dream about the other women who were there with me and I wonder how they are doing. Each day the nightmares fade and the good dreams get more vivid. It hasn’t been even 2 months yet so, I can only hope things get better.
i had my abortion thinking that i would be able to get through it. not being able to forget it but also not dreading over it like i had been. my dreams have become less frequent since i was 15 now being almost 18 ,but my dream that still causes me to lose sleep and wake up crying is i was walking down the street full of adults shopping and minding their own business when i had to go to the school down the street to pick up mychild from school. well, when the bell rang to let out the kids they all came running out with cut up bloody faces coming up to me screaming “how could you do this to me i thought you were supposed to love me i hate you i will never forgive you but never leave you.” i never knew what that meant when they said ” i will never leave you” then i talked it over with a close friend and we have concluded that the reason why they said i will never leave you was because i didn’t ant to have the abortion but i had no father for the baby and my mother forced to have it done. i would sit and cry and hold my stomach telling the baby i am sorry that this was going to happen to it and i hope you will forgive me for hurting you and i think the baby new that i was truly sorry and that she forgave me and everyday that goes by that first baby that was in me has always stayed in my heart and everyday i talk to it by praying to god and asking to talk to it and i tell the baby how my day as and i ask it how it is doing and sometImes i can actually hear it talking back. i have never found out whether it was a boy or girl but i know the baby is still close with me in my heart.
I’ve had lots of different dreams, some are okay and others are just torture, one of the worst was when I dreamt that they had given me my tiny dead baby to take home with me and I kept it on a chair in the living room under a tissue and screamed for someone to take it away. I eventually lifted off the tissue and was amazed to find a tiny living baby
Name: Sue
The first 2 are the most often.
I am going through it again. They have a TV and I ask to see it. At first it doesn’t make sense then I see a heart beating before they turn it away. I now they lied to me about it being like a cancer inside me. Why didn’t they show me my girl before. I know shes a beautiful girl and I love her. I try to ask them to stop but they think Im asking about the pain. They lied about that as well. When they understand they carry on and says its to late. When the noise starts i hear someone scream. It feels like my insides are being sucked up. I can see a glass bottle filling with blood, so much blood. I think something has gone wrong and Im dying. I try to say Hail Mary so that if I die Ill go to heaven but I forget the words. The nurse sees me looking and stands in front of me. When it stops she takes the bottle away and looks at it. I try to ask what it is but they dont answer. When I ask to look they dont understand. She says that they are both there. Im helped off the table and as Im leaving i look back and see her putting something in a bin but then the door closes and i think was that my girl and I failed her. In my dream sometImes they show me what it was but then they pour it over me and Im covered in blood. SometImes I try to push it back inside me but it wont go no matter how hard I try. SometImes I dream that I try to stop it by pushing them away from me but then they hold me down and I feel like Im being raped. I think of this during the day and wonder what I could have done different to make them stop.
Im looking in a trash can and among the rubbish i find my baby in a plastic bag. Or sometImes I find her in the toilet. I try to put her back together but its not all there and the harder i try the worse it gets.
I hear someone crying for help. The house is burning. I run round looking for her. I can see my girl and hear her but she is being burned up in the flames and I cant reach her.
Im giving birth. There is a lot of pain and Im on my own. There is no-one to help me and Im crying for my mother but she doesn’t come. Then there is a nurse who takes the baby but when she gives it to me to hold there is only pieces.
Mom and Dad (my real mom who died not my step-mom) are waiting by the front door with my daughter. She is beautiful. I dont know what to say. They ask what is the matter and when I dont answer they look inside me cos they didn’t know. I feel ashamed and turn and walk away and I think Im going to hell.
Name: Sky
I’d like to start by saying that my nightmares are becoming less frequent. Some nights I dream that I’m frantically trying to piece together my aborted baby like a puzzle.
My worst and most reoccurring nightmare is that I’m at the clinic on the table and the doctor is performing the abortion. My boyfriend turns to me and his face is slashed to pieces and I’m screaming “NO DON’T TAKE MY BABY, HE’S A PART OF ME HE BELONGS INSIDE OF ME” and I’m so frantic to keep my baby inside of my that I sit bolt upright on the table, steal the cup from the doctor and drink the aborted material to “keep my baby inside of me”
Name: JustaMom
I have had several bad dreams since my abortion. I have 4 children ages 14,10,8 and 6. I have dreams that I can’t find them, or that they have been kidnapped. Right after the abortion I had a re-occurring dream that I was standing with my sleeves rolled up and there was blood on my hands and arms–up to my elbows. I looked helplessly at my husband–Like “do something, can’t you see there is blood on me” but in the dream he doesn’t come help me or acknowledge the blood on me. In the dream he says “Well you did it”. I also have dreams of tiny embryos. I never thought that having an early first trImester abortion would traumatize me like this. I was very self assured going in to get the procedure. This whole experience with nightmares and sadness has taken me totally by surprise. It is torture daily.
Here is a site about post abortive women and nightmares. It made me think of Neva.
Here’s more dreams Women have shared. The same warning applies to thesee as the other pages. They can be graphic, please skip if you are feeling sensitive! If you want to share your own dream or nightmare after an abortion, the form is at the bottom of the page.
Dreams
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Dreams and nightmares seems to be my only companion when I go to bed at night. After the “last resort” event I couldn’t help myself but wonder whether my unborn baby is doing well. I frequently has dreams that I was strolling in the park with my baby……feeling so happy. Seems like nothing else in this world matter or exist as long as I have my baby. Then out of nowhere a hand came down and took my baby away. I cried, pleaded, fighted trying to protect my baby but I couldn’t. Is this a way god is punishing me for making the unavoidable decision? I can never change the past. What has happened can never be turned back. Each day I feel more guilty and wonder how happy I must be now if my baby is still safe inside of me…..
About 1 mos. post abortion I had a dream that ,in retrospect,said alot. I dreamt my boyfriend(x now)drove into my driveway with his new girlfriend and “their”new baby. They were on a motorcycle and she was on the back just holding the baby in her arms as they drove around on the highway. To make a long explanation short….that baby was at risk…..the parents should have known better. My unborn child,will never be harmed……
“WARNING” Graphic – My most reoccurring dream is that I’m in the hospital after giving birth and the nurse comes to me and takes my baby and sticks a hook in it’s brain. The baby cries and then my dream ends…..
About a month after my abortion I dreamt that I was in a room with three people. They were my mother and my grand mother and a man that I could not see his face. My mother was holding a baby. A baby boy with blonde hair and a bright green shirt on. She and my grandmother were talking to him and playing with him, then my mother handed the baby over to me and I knew that it was mine.(the one that I did not have) When she handed him to me he looked up at me and smiled a beautiful smile and his littlee hand reached up and touched my face on my cheek then he babbled a littlee bit. After that I had to hand him to the unknown man and he took him away. In a way this dream was so comforting because my baby was happy in my dream and the way that he touched my face was to me a way of saying “It’s ok I know you did what was best for me and you”. I always remember that dream when I am feeling down and depressed, in a small way it makes me feel like even though I regret doing what I did I know that my baby is ok and he is in heaven with the Lord.
After my abortion I asked the nurse what happens to the fetus. She told me they burn them. That is how I started having nightmares. These last 9 months the same one over and over. I can see this big glass jar filled with blood and a body. That is my baby. She starts screaming so loud as she rolls down a conveyer belt type thing into a large fiery pit. Her cries are so loud I wake up sometimes screaming myself. It is very scary. I have not slept good since.
In my dream I’m in a house that I’ve never really seen. I guess I made it up for the dream. My boyfriend and his friend are sitting in front of a computer and they won’t let me see what’s going on. And I get angry because they’re keeping something from me. I kind of go back into the corner and hide so they can’t see me. I can catch glimpses of what they’re doing but I can’t see all of it. Then, my b/f gets up to go to the bathroom and his friend goes to have a smoke. I sneak to the computer and go into the history and see where they’ve been. One of them said something about “See an abortion” and so I clicked on that. It was a video clip and I watched it. It was a baby being aborted through the suction method. A clinic had inserted one of those internal surgery cameras during an abortion and then posted it on the internet. I watched in horror as the littlee suction probe went in and the fetus looked scared. It was tiny and had littlee stubs for arms and legs. It kept moving back away from the probe and it just looked scared. Then the probe grabbed a hold of it and ripped it to shreds piece by piece. It was loud and all of the pieces of the baby were gone except the spinal cord. The spinal cord was completely formed and in tact. the probe came back and took the spinal cord out. Then the video stopped. My b/f came back and looked nervous and told me he didn’t want me to see that. I told him it was fucked up to download something like that knowing about me. And his friend turned to him and said, “Yeah, especially when it’s a video of her abortion.” I was confused and my b/f gave his friend a look like he was going to kill him. I replayed the video and down at the bottom of the clip was all the doctor stuff, like length of fetus, gestation week, etc. And then it said “Patient: SMT (with my full last name)” In my dream I had watched a complete video of my own baby being torn to shreds during the abortion. That is the worst nightmare I think I could ever have.
I dream that i am running around in this crowded park and i am holding a dead fetus in my hands. No matter how much i scream and cry no one seems to hear me. All i want is help and for some one to help my baby johnathan. but in the end it’s too late for him.
Although my dreams are becoming less frequent I still struggle to aquire a “good” night of sleep. It seems as if my dreams come and go in spells. Sometimes they last for months with no end. My most vivid dream is when my family, all of who knew about my abortion, is gathered around me holding hands in a circle. The father of my dead child is standing in front of me screaming and yelling with the rest of the group for my to kill myself as I hold a gun in my mouth crying.
In another one of my many dreams I am standing in the hallway of a house. All of the doors in the hall are closed and I hear my child screaming. I race throughout the hall trying to open every door, but am unable to rescue my child.
Another dream I have about my unborn child is that I gave birth to him. I am constantly loving my baby as I try to reveal him to my family who refuses to look at him. I scream in rage for answers to why the will no accept him.
The most frustrating dream I have is the one where I’m having the abortion all over again. I wake up in a cold sweat, gasping for air, and clenching my stomach.
Since I had my abortion 2 weeks ago, I have been plagued by a plethora of different emotions. Recently different dreams have come to me, but there is one that has stuck with me more than any other. I am in a new house, unpacking boxes like I was just moving in there. And then I get a knock on the door and there are all of thesee delivery men bringing in all kinds of different things. First I see a highchair, then a crib, a bassinet, and stuffed animals. They are all black with moons and stars on them. I start crying, telling them that I won’t need them anymore because my baby won’t be coming… I’m begging them to take everything away, and the whole house is full of this stuff. Then I look down in the crib and I see the most beautiful littlee baby. He’s got blue eyes and curly brown hair. I pick him up, and he smiles at me. I’m crying so much that I just clutch him to me, singing to him, smelling his sweet skin and hair. He’s the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen. Then am man comes in and takes him away from me, and I’m screaming as he’s taken out of the house. I remember waking up with tears coming out of my eyes, and I couldn’t remember falling asleep after that. I’m haunted by this dream, and this baby… when I look at children in public, I think I see him… I wonder if that’s what my baby looked like…
I have nightmares all the time about my baby. Sometimes I dream about being at the clinic again, other times I have the baby and someone takes it away from me. The most recent one I had, I was pregnant again. I was so happy that I was going to get to have my baby this time. Well, I went into labor, but I was so scared about giving birth and decided that I wanted to wait a littlee longer. I begged the Dr. to stop the labor but she couldn’t and wouldn’t so I had the baby. But when the baby was born, it was dead. I just sat up and leaned over and stared at it. It was so blue and tiny. I was crying and the Dr. looked at me and said I didn’t deserve this baby anyway since I killed my first one. My friend was pregnant in the dream also, and she miscarried that day and everyone blamed it on me. No one would speak to me. It was awful.
i had this dream about 3 months after my abortion.I had gotten pregnant again and my mom supported me but when i went in to labor it flashed to my dead baby, except he was about 4. he smiled at me and we just stared. ever since that i try to picture his precious face but i hate myself even a littlee bit more now that I’ve seen him
Ever since my three abortions i dream a lot about blood. one time i dreamed that i was on a skateboard on the street under a bridge and there was this head just laying there with its blood and guts all underneath my feet and i couldn’t get away from it. it went for miles and miles and miles. the worst dream was a few weeks ago when i dreamed that my sister brought in a clear box with a yellow lid. she told me that it was my baby inside. me and my boyfriend(the father of all 3 abortions)just kept pretending like it wasn’t there until finally i asked him to open the box and see if it was still alive. so he opened the box and there was this bloody baby laying there all cut up. but he was still breathing.so,we cleaned him off and i started feeding him some milk. then all of the sudden he got really heavy and mean and when I’d pick him up he’d kick and scream. he got really big and had the scariest look on his face. i was deathly afraid of him. meanwhile, my boyfriend was on the back porch getting drunk saying that he had to leave to go hunting. i then woke up. i also dream a lot that i am pregnant and about to have a baby, but i am not showing because the baby is dead inside.
It was two weeks after my 16th birthday when I was forced to have an abortion. I am now going on 25. After my abortion, my parents treated me like it never happened. Which is why I think the nightmares started. My baby would have been due around May 25th of 1992. When I found out I was pregnant I was happy. Then it all turned into hell. A week after the abortion I would wake up in night sweats. Not understanding why, I cured it with taking Excedrin PM to help me sleep. When I got married in 1996 and pregnant with my first son the nightmares began again. I would wake up screaming for my husband to take me to the hospital, I just knew I was losing my baby. Finally, I made myself go through the dream. It always started with me feeling like I was in labor. I would run to the bathroom and find baby body parts in the toilet or in my underwear. Or I would be in labor and parts of my baby would come out peace by peace. The abortion really shook me up. When my son was born, healthy, the nightmares still continued. They would go from checking on my baby to find him dead -to dropping my baby and splattering his body on the floor. I went through the same thing when my second son was born. I am getting better. The ironly of it all is that my first son was born May 15th 1997 almost five years to the due date of my first pregnancy. This helped me alot. I figured God gave me and my aborted baby another chance to be together. That he waited for me to be ready for him. I hope this letter helps any teens or women like me know that they are not alone, like I have felt for so many years.
9 DAYS AGO ,I HAD AN ABORTION. THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO BE OKAY,TILL 3 DAYS LATER,WHEN THE NIGHTMARES STARED. IN THESE DREAMS I’M LOOKING DOWN FROM MY HEAD,TOWARDS MY LEGS,AND I CAN SEE THE TUBE AND THE BLOOD AND BODY PARTS GOING THREW IT. THEN I START SEEING BLOOD AND BODY PARTS EVERYWHERE I LOOK. THEN SLL KINDS OF THINGS KEEP HAPPENING ALL FAST,LIKE PEOPLE IN MY FACE YELLING AND SHOWING ME ABORTED BABIES,AND I HEAR BABY CRIES IN THE BACKGROUND, THEN THAT’S WHEN I WAKE UP CRYING AND SWEATING, AFRAID TO CLOSE MY EYES, AFRAID TO GET UP AND GO TO THE BATHROOM. THEN AFTER AWHILE, I SEE AND HEAR ALL THIS WITH MY EYES OPEN. I STARTED TO WONDER IF I WAS GOING CRAZY…THIS WENT ON FOR 3 MORE DAYS, SOMETHING DIFFERENT EVERY NIGHT.I’D CRY BEFORE I WENT TO BED BECAUSE I WAS SO AFRAID OF WHAT I WAS GOING TO SEE. I KIND OF REGRET IT,BECAUSE I WANT ANOTHER CHILD,BUT THIS WAS JUST BAD TIMING. SO WHAT I DID WAS DID ALOT DURING THE DAY TO KEEP MY MIND OFF OF THINGS AND IT HELPED.IT HELPED WITH THE NIGHTMARES ANYWAY. I STARTED DOING TAEBO AGAIN AND CONSTANTLY CLEANING THE HOUSE,AND SPENDING ALL KINDS OF TIME WITH MY SON. SOMETIMES IN THE DAY THINGS GET ROUGH,LIKE I HEAR A BABY CRYING OR I SEE SOMETHING ON TV THAT CATCHES MY ATTENTION,WHY I WATCH IT ,I DONT KNOW.TIME WAS THE REASON I HAD TO GIVE IT UP, SO I GUESS TIME IS WHAT IT’LL TAKE TO GET THROUGH THIS…..HOPE THIS HELPS=)
I’ve dreamt this, and also experienced it during the day – the day I had my “A”, there were protesters screaming and yelling. (This is real) I ran around the fence to get away from them, the fence was covered with cloth so they were blocked from the parking lot, i was so relieved to be away from them, but as soon as I rounded the fence, there was another mob on the other side of the lot with signs, screaming at me, and as I approached the door, there was a hole in the fence and they were yelling at me. Now I’m jumpy whenever I walk around a corner, or see any kind of protesters, even on the news. And thesee protesters have just been in the background of random dreams screaming at me dont kill a member of your own family and they’re just gonna put your baby in a trash bag. And i made the mistake of glimpsing at one of their huge pictures of an aborted fetus, and I see it all the time. I always wake up crying. Its only been a week.
I have never really had a dream, or a nightmare, but I do have what I call “night occurrences”. I have had two abortions, one at 17 and another at 20. About a month after my 2nd abortion I discovered I was pregnant again. I went into a deep state of denial about even being pregnant because I didn’t want to even live with having to make that kind of decision again. Finally at about 5 months into my pregnancy, I decided to go ahead and continue my pregnancy and give birth. In July 1996 I gave birth to twin girls. It was when they became toddlers that the night occurrences began. One of them would call out “Mommy” in the middle of the night and immediately I would feel myself slip into this state of panic. I am paralyzed, and I feel hot and tingly all over. My breathing becomes rapid, and all I can think is I can’t wait for them to stop calling me. I don’t want them to need me. And then I feel horrible. Also when my daughters were first born, I had this crazy intense fear that the youngest twin would die unexpectantly. I had no logical basis for this fear–my girls were born amazingly healthy.
Every time I closed my eyes for the first two weeks after the abortion that happened a month ago, I kept seeing myself on that table. I kept remembering feeling in a twilight and saying afterwards – is it over?? I could not sleep for 5 days straight cause every time I closed my eyes I kept envisioning that. I was terrified to fall asleep. At times I when I am at work, or am at home by myself, I for no reason go into an oblivion and have thesee littlee attacks where every time I close my eyes or try look up or anywhere I see myself on that table.
My dream has been repeated so many times over the years…I can wake myself up now. The dream starts in an old three story house. Sometimes I’m in the back of the house, sometimes I’m just driving up, sometimes I am already in the house. Big, white, clean, hardwood floors beautifully decorated. I always think that it is a good dream. Then I start up the beautiful winding stairs, I am apprehensive but still go up the stairs. I finally make it to the room on the third floor, the room is completely empty. There is only a white box under the window across the room. I walk into the room. I am never alone, someone is always with me. That part is ironic considering the complete feelings of isolation I have had all of thesee years. Anyway, I walk to the box. Sometimes I hear a baby crying and I quickly open the box only to find it empty. Other times I have opened the box to find baby clothese. Other times I have found a dead baby. Other times I have found my old bloody clothese. I stand over the box crying and these intensity wakes me up. This has been a recurring dream for many years. I have been asleep in the house downstairs only to be awakened by someone to go up the stairs. The other night I finally saw who was with me. It was my ex. We have not seen or spoken for 13 years. He held my had and we walked into the room together. Then I woke up.
well I have this dream all the time that my friend is having an abortion and she is yelling to me that she doesn’t want it done and the doctor tell’s us that it’s too late. That it is almost completely out. And my friend jumps up and yells no. That it’s not right to have an abortion. She always says that how can people get pregnant and kill there babies. If you can make the mistake then you should live with that mistake. And that’s what she did.
I have had recurrent night “terrors” almost every night since my abortion. You really don’t remember the nightmare at all, but I wake up actually running from “something”. I am shaking, my heart is beating abnormally fast and I am sweating. However, one time I remember I woke up( I was having a night terror) and thought I saw a child covered in blood in front of me. I ran out of the house and could not go back in for hours. I have never really recovered from this “dream”. However since I have started counseling I haven’t had one of thesee in almost three weeks.
My dream begins with me walking through my church. As i am walking I see the man who would have been my baby’s father. In my dream is white but he is really a black man. In my dream I am still pregnant, I see him and he begins yelling at me because he has heard that I am going to have an abortion. Then he starts pushing me until I fall. While I am on the ground he rips the baby out of my stomach, holds it over me and walks away, leaving me to die on the floor of the church.
there is only one that I’d like to share. i dreamed this a few months after my second abortion which came only a year after my first, and i can’t now recall now the utter peace it brought me then…i only dreamed that I’d carried my fetus to term and given birth. and i could only stare into her gaping blue baby eyes and say, “you are so beautiful, so beautiful.”
I have two different dreams…
The first is the dream I had before I knew I was pregnant. I was in a crashing plane. The stewardess sat a young, scared child in my lap and told me to take care of her.The plane made a crash landing.On the way down the roof came off. We crash landed ok, but I couldn’t find the child.I woke up in a panic and took my positive test the next day. It’s strange how your body can know what’s going on before you do. This is the dream i still have. It’s disturbing, so don’t read it if you think it will upset you… I’m lying on the table about to have the abortion. Beside me instead of the nurse there is this freaky looking clown trying to distract me. I panic and say I’ve changed my mind. The doctor says it’s too late. She has a tray of stuff that she got from me. something is still moving and she is stabbing at it with her prongs.
i have the same dream over and over again, that i am lying on the doctors table after the abortion in a pool of blood. screaming my ex-boyfriends name out to help me, but he never comes
These experiences expressed in the dreams definitely echo my own thoughts.
But now I am even more speechless that plenty of women say they don’t regret this choice and are glad they had their abortions.
How can someone NOT have the same reactions in her subconscious?
Catherine,
The same question crosses my mind on a daily basis. Hence, this blog.
Catherine, thank you for being so honest. It’s terrible that these women have sleepless nights d/t a “simple choice.”
I am even more speechless that plenty of women say they don’t regret this choice and are glad they had their abortions. How can someone NOT have the same reactions in her subconscious?
Catherine, they simply feel that way. People are different like that.
Catherine, I was not in any way prepared to have a baby. So I terminated my pregnancy. It really doesn’t bother me. No nightmares, no regretting it, none of that. I don’t feel guilty. Was it a choice I wish I hadn’t had to make? Yeah, probably. But I’m quite content with the one I made.
hello erin
Hey heather
Hello, Dolly!
Hey Babs!
Babs is also Doug! *raises eyebrows*
Heather, have you ever heard of that movie – “Hello, Dolly!”?
yup.
At the end of the special Dhue gave an e-mail address to send thoughts on the documentary. Here is what I e-mailed her.
Kayla’s family, church, community and anyone who names her as an acquaintance must be very ashamed of her for RATIONALIZING the violent murder of her two children.
Her reasoning was so superficial and relativistic that her church and parents should make a special announcement this Sunday about their failure to communicate the truth about human life, abortion and the absolute laws of God (specificly You shall not murder) in their services and Sunday school classes.
Kayla is what is wrong with America. She is so selfish and self-centered, to the point that she will justify murdering several of her children, that she will never be able to really be successful in life or business. I judge her as Christ commanded I do (John 7:24) and as Paul commanded I do (1 Cor 6:2-5) as a murder and my church would never allow her to do anything with us until she genuinely repented of having murdered her two innocent and defenseless children (1 Cor 5).
Jesus Christ will definitely hold her murders against her until she repents of them instead of justifying them based upon convenience.
Erin, thank you for trying to help me understand.
I was definitely not ready to have a baby either. I agree with so much of what you said. To be very honest, every time I re-analyze my decision, I can only conclude that choosing abortion was the choice that made the most sense. I am still 100% sure that it made the most sense.
My struggle is the reaction that came from the core of my soul. That I was a murderer. That I do not deserve any of God’s gifts. That my womb would never be a safe place.
So it makes sense, AND it was horrible. It seems like I am now siding with both sides of this issue and thus not really siding for either side. Be patient. God is still working on me!
And Erin, I don’t judge you as a person. Not at all. Thanks for your comment.
Honest, awesome post, Catherine.
He is a wretched, wretched man. He is in this for the attention. At some point he began to identify with abortion; it became his calling card.
He emailed me several years ago attempting to provoke a conversation, which I yielded to. After a couple emails he said he was compiling conversations with pro-lifers for a pro-abortion book. I stopped talking to him.
Posted by: Jill Stanek at October 27, 2007 8:37 PM
………………………..
It is quite obvious that you identify with abortion and thrive on attention. I have yet to witness any semplence of conversation on your own blog with anyone that doesn’t agree with you. No wonder that you would run from honest conversation. Only the dishonest create a blog and then run away from opposing opinions posed to them.
Only the dishonest create a blog and then run away from opposing opinions posed to them.
Oh yes, Sally, you’re one to preach about honesty. Riiiiight.
Jill is not “running away” from opposing opinions. She is continually reaching out to speak with those who oppose her views, and does not censor people here. You have the ability to come to this blog, and not have to worry about your posts being deleted, and you know why? Because Jill welcomes opposing viewpoints and a healthy conversation between opposing sides. So, get over yourself.
Hey Bethany,
I really do have little trouble with people like Sally, Erin and Doug because they speak candidly, what truth they do know (or are willing to acknowledge). Zeke gets to me, for his/her mis-characterization of my brother/best friend/Jesus. Just as He talked to the woman caught in adultery and said, “Your accusers; where are they?” Her reply, ‘Sir, there are none.’ “Neither do I accuse you. Go and sin no more!”
Many feel a sanctimonious need to condemn. Perhaps, if we understand that this woman did NOT seek for Jesus (very likely did not even know Him or have ever heard of Him), then we will start to understand that this story is about Jesus and His incredible mercy.
A brother/follower of Jesus tries to imitate his/her MASTER. Rather than condemn(judge), perhaps we can say: ‘But for the grace of God ….’ So Zeke thanks… every time you post, I get the powerful urge to pray – ‘But for the grace of God, go I’
John, thank you – for all our disagreements, that was a darn nice thing to say.
I was going to post this in a more recent thread, but I gotta say you are a unique person, among all I have ever met or “met,” offline or online, and that is in 48 years of life (it’d be over 49 for those who reckon it from conception).
And that’s in untold hours of arguing online – an hour a day, maybe 2 hours, maybe 6, even maybe 12 or more some days. I figure I’ve spent 1.4 years of my life on it – crazy, huh? Not all on abortion, per se, since so often we go off on tangents, but still….
I do think you’re being too hard on the Zekester, though – isn’t (he/she?) also speaking candidly, with what truth hey know or are willing to acknowlege?
Doug
Doug, it seems you are being consistent in that you advocate emotional truth-telling. I commend you for that.
My guess is that John’s purpose, though, was to counteract all the judgement that Christians are sometimes (dare I say “often”?) known for. What a strong, destructive force is this judge-mentality!
Think “funeral protesters.” My Army husband is away for a year. Protesting funerals is particularly disgusting to me. Remember First Corinthians 13? “If I prophesy with the tongues of men and angels but have not love . . . .I am as a clanging symbol or a banging gong.”
Sure, we are here in the context of intellectual wrangling. But there is certainly a place for doing our best to protect the delicate emotional selves of others. For discussing the issue of abortion necessarily involves using our level-headed logic AND touching our own humanity underneath.
Many quote Matthew 6 and conclude that judging in itself is bad. Not so, in the context of the Bible, the rest of Matthew, and even the immediate surrounding passage, itself.
I should explain better, but I’m sleepy and recovering from dress-up day and my children’s sugar high!
Thanks for your thoughts, Doug, John, and you, Brother Zeke.
Um, or Sister Zeke. Sorry!