Ab-doulas
You may be unfamiliar with the word, “doula.” It is the term for women who offer professional labor support that may also encompass prenatal and postnatal/
breastfeeding/newborn care support.
Miriam Perez at RH Reality Check reported October 30 that feminists and the abortion industry are trying to establish abortion doulas….
This is tricky, since one important role of doulas is to help minimize pain through labor, which pro-aborts either deny or deemphasize as a part of abortion, and another important role is to offer emotional and psychological support before, during, and after delivery, which pro-aborts maintain isn’t necessary for abortion since it is a positive experience with no emotional or psychological after effects.
Yet while pro-aborts fervently deny the physical and psychological pain of abortion, they furtively acknowledge them by trialing abortion doulas, also an attempt to legitimize and destigmatize abortion by making it a component of maternity.
So you’ll get a schizophrenic explanation of the role of ab-doulas, as seen in this article, which would be laughable if the endeavor weren’t so disgusting and pathetic.
Disgusting? Oh, yes. Prepare to be repulsed, from the article:
Explaining how the abortion procedure works is similar to visualization used by doulas during labor, when the doula helps the woman to visualize the baby moving down into the birth canal with the strength of each contraction….”
Exactly what is an aborting mother supposed to visualize coming down her birth canal?
Also note acknowledgement that abortion mills are cold and calloused, where aborting mothers are cattle:
Erin [who aborted at age 18] explained, “… The medical staff at the hospital were not kind to me and there was no discussion about what was happening to my body, it was just a procedure that they were doing to me as coldly and clinically as possible.”…
As the number of providers decreases (it has dropped 37% since 1982) and the number of women having abortions continues to go up, clinics and abortion providers are overextended and under-resourced…. [M]any providers [are] not well equipped to provide adequate support….
[M]ost clinics and providers are unable to provide the longer-term support….
And what, abortion mills aren’t providing teaching?
Erin explained why she would have wanted a doula at her abortion: “I feel that a doula would have helped me understand what was happening to my newly pregnant body, the process of the abortion, and the after care for my body.”…
Dr. Nilda Moreno, an OB/GYN and member of the Birth Sisters [doula] program, explained, “We don’t only want to provide emotional support but also contraceptive support. We want them to have all the information to prevent unintended pregnancies.”
Then there’s the pain of it all, due solely to the bottom line I might add, no matter what they say, since appropriate anesthesia would require the added expense of product and personnel:
[T]he procedure itself can also be a painful one, during which many women are fully or at least partially conscious. Raquel Valentin, Practice Manager for the Family Planning Division at Beth Israel Hospital explained, “Many first trimester abortions are being done with local and moderate sedation. This means that the women are still awake and emotional.” The decision to use moderate sedation is based on both the women’s choices and the higher risks associated with full anesthesia but can result in an experience that can be both frightening and, at times, painful….
[P]ain mediation techniques, like massage, acupressure and breathing could all be helpful for some women during these abortion procedures.
And I’ll let you in on one of their dirty little secrets. They give aborting mothers Versed, an amnesiac, so they forget whatever pain, trauma, resistance – and change of mind – they experienced during the abortion.
Then we get to the psychological aspect of abortion, a minefield ab-doula supporters don’t tip toe very well through:
Susan Yanow… former director of the Abortion Access Project… “I don’t want to carve out abortion in any way that minimizes or maximizes it,” she explained. Instead of implying that women who have abortions need a lot of support, this is simply another opportunity to help women within the broader context of doula care. To her it’s important that women do not feel that abortion is being stigmatized and that women are not being sent the message that they need support during their abortion….
Susan explained that what she doesn’t want to do is send the message that all women need support; and she worries that it will simply add to the stigma that women already feel around abortion….
All I can say about that gobbledygook is, what?
There was much more to this article. Dawn Eden of Dawn Patrol, who was gracious to give me the tip, had her own thoughts:
Among the issues raised:
the targeting of abortion “doulas” to Latino women the discomfort among doulas of having their “pro-life” (as one doula calls it) profession turned towards aiding and abetting abortions the insinuation that doulas could convince women that abortion will not affect their fertility the reluctance of some abortion advocates to promote a program that would suggest some women are not 100% happy with their abortion experience the references to women’s “complicated” feelings on abortion (are these the same women who are so certain about the rightness their decision that they would be insulted by the offer of an ultrasound?)
On Dawn’s final point, a quote by Erin at the beginning of the article:
“I was very clear in my heart and mind that the abortion was exactly the right thing to do for me at that point in my life….”
and a quote by Erin at the end:
“I had a hard first labor. I wonder if I had trouble connecting to my birthing body as a result of the abortion experience.”
Lots of stuff in that last statement: disassociation with her “wanted and planned child[],” guilt, an underlying concern about payback.
Ab-doulas, just one more failed attempt to mainstream abortion. After almost 35 years of legalized but stigmatized abortion, you’d think they’d realize it’s not gonna happen.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Who is going to pay for these ab doulas to be available for these women. Doulas don’t come cheap.
These so called ab doulas will probably fall in line with the other untrained personnel working in an abortuary. They will probably provide medically untrained avid pro-aborts looking for extra cash.
The industry is finally recognizing that this procedure is painful and traumatic enough to hire ab doulas to care and comfort women who choose abortion. One more huge contradiction to their never-ending barrel of lies and deception.
“One more huge contradiction to their never-ending barrel of lies and deception.”
Indeed. Everything is so backwards in the world of the abortion industry.
And I’ll let you in on one of their dirty little secrets. They give aborting mothers Versed, an amnesiac, so they forget whatever pain, trauma, resistance – and change of mind – they experienced during the abortion.
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Gee, every women I know who has cranked out a baby has experienced pain, trama, and in at least two cases, change of mind.
Why do they use anesthesia during childbirth and caesarians if it’s such a “beautiful experience?”
If childbirth is so gawd-awful we really should outlaw it.
After all, obstetricians are the most-sued doctors in medicine. They pay the highest malpractice premiums. How long are we going to let these quacks inflict pain on women for money?
Gee,
Laura,
I had two very easy labor and deliveries. My first was born 15 minutes and two pushes after I arrived. The hospital only charged me for one hour in the delivery room. I can honestly say it wasn’t even as bad as a menstrual period. I was up in minutes, talking on the phone, nursing. It was great!
Laura:
No one is denying that there is pain in childbirth. But, people are out there all the time denying that there is pain during abortion. No one is denying that women feel a variety of emotions during childbirth. But, people are out there saying that women who abort experience no emotional complications, regret, or aftershocks once they have gone through the abortion-provider’s “counseling.” The point is, by introducing ab-doulas, the abortion industry is directly contradicting itself. Why does this inherent contradiction, which screams deception, not make you angry?
Erin
Sandy,
Good points. Wasn’t abortion supposed to be trauma free, simple, and easy? Women would suffer no post abortion effects. Aren’t these the people who argue there is no post abortion stress, that this is just the creation of the pro-life movement?
Also why is there concern about stigma? I’ve always heard the majority of the American people support abortion. Though now I hear they are indifferent to it.
If its pain and fear that’s such a concern, how about a doula when one goes to the dentist?
Sandy, you are right about the cost of a doula. If clinics can’t afford, or can’t find nurses and surgical techs, where do they think they’ll find or afford doulas? I’ve checked Tiller’s website and nowhere does it mention the credentials of his staff, something you think he would proudly display. That’s because they don’t have any.
Also concerning the use of versed during the abortion procedure. I hope those giving this drug treat it with the respect it deserves, and that means proper monitoring, resuscitation equipment, and training. I’ve seen minimal doses of this drug completely wipe out respirations. Anyone using that drug on me better darn well be credentialled to do so!
Gee,
Laura,
I had two very easy labor and deliveries. My first was born 15 minutes and two pushes after I arrived. The hospital only charged me for one hour in the delivery room. I can honestly say it wasn’t even as bad as a menstrual period. I was up in minutes, talking on the phone, nursing. It was great!
Posted by: hippie at November 2, 2007 9:45 AM
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Wow! That’s a pretty unique experience. All I need to do is go to a baby shower to get all kinds of bloody, gory, shrieking war stories about how horrendous labor and delivery is for most women.
On the other hand, I’ve never heard a women mention physical pain occuring during an abortion, other than cramp-like sensations.
hey Laura,
I meant to ask you about something you said about Hillary and some veterans.
What, when, etc. was that?
But, people are out there all the time denying that there is pain during abortion.
Who is denying that? Not even Planned Parenthood says that there is no pain or emotional complications:
“Most women feel relief. Some women feel anger, regret, guilt, or sadness for a little while. Sudden hormonal changes may intensify these feelings.
Some people who oppose a woman’s right to make her own reproductive decisions claim that abortion often causes long-lasting emotional problems, or “post-abortion syndrome.” There is no scientific proof for these claims.
Emotional Problems After Abortion
Serious, long-term emotional problems after abortion are about as common as they are after childbirth. Such problems are more likely if
* the pregnancy was wanted but the health of the fetus or the woman was in danger
* having an abortion is related to serious problems in a relationship or other disturbing life events
* a woman is depressed or has other emotional problems that predate her pregnancy
If you want to talk with someone after an abortion, abortion providers can talk with you or refer you to a counselor or to nonjudgemental support groups.”
That’s a far cry from saying that there are “no emotional complications or regrets.”
I meant to ask you about something you said about Hillary and some veterans.
What, when, etc. was that?
Posted by: hippie at November 2, 2007 9:56 AM
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I have no idea. I do know that she is considered a saint in the two veterans organizations my mother works for, and if you google “hillary veterans” you’ll see why. She’s quite the advocate.
tp,
The truth is there is not that much support for women who deliver either. The doctors work for themselves and nurses work for the clinic or hospital. Family is generally overwhelmed by seeing their loved ones in such condition and feel helpless too. That is why people hire doulas for support because doulas don’t work for the hospital or doctor they work for the patient. I am not trying to slam doctors or nurses who by and large do a good job and have mountains of regulations and paperwork to deal with, but those tasks can take away from time to support patients. Overall doulas are great because they understand what is going on, and they are not committed to actually providing the medical care, chasing meds. equipment etc. so they have the time and ability to focus on the patients concerns.
Is Abortion Safe?
Physical Complications*
Despite the use of local anesthesia, a full 97% of women having abortions reported experiencing pain during the procedure, [81] which more than a third described as “intense,” [82] “severe” or “very severe.” [83] Compared to other pains, researchers have rated the pain from abortion as more painful than a bone fracture, about the same as cancer pain, though not as painful as an amputation. [84]
Studies also reveal that younger women tend to find abortion more painful than do older adults, [85] and that patients typically found abortion more painful than their doctors or counselors expected. [86] The use of more powerful general anesthetics can reduce the pain, but significantly increases the risk of cervical injury or uterine perforation. [87]
Complications such as these are common, as are bleeding, hemorrhage,[88] laceration of the cervix, [89] menstrual disturbance, [90] inflammation of the reproductive organs, [91] bladder or bowel perforation, [92] and serious infection. [93]
Even more harmful long term physical complications from abortion may surface later. For example, overzealous currettage can damage the lining of the uterus and lead to permanent infertility. [94] Overall, women who have abortions face an increased risk of ectopic (tubal) pregnancy [95] and a more than doubled risk of future sterility. [96] Perhaps most important of all, the risk of these sorts of complications, along with risks of future miscarriage, increase with each subsequent abortion. [97]
The particular type and severity of complications depend a great deal on the experience of the abortionist and the particular abortion method used. Given that most abortions are performed at abortion clinics rather than by a woman?s regular ob-gyn, [98] the doctor performing the abortion is likely to be a stranger of whose skill and experience a woman knows very little. [99] Such things as an inadequate gynecologic examination prior to the operation, the carelessness of the abortionist, or the retention of fetal and placental tissue can all bring on complications. These kinds of complications can usually be treated and generally subside (though not always), [100] but few women ever return to the clinics for crucial post-operative examinations. [101]
There is strong evidence that abortion increases the risk of breast cancer. A study of more than 1,800 women appearing in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute in 1994 found that overall, women having abortions increased their risk of getting breast cancer before age 45 by 50%. For women under 18 with no previous pregnancies, having an abortion after the 8th week increased the risk of breast cancer 800%. Women with a family history of breast cancer fared even worse. All 12 women participating in the study who had abortions before 18 and had a family history of breast cancer themselves got cancer before age 45. [102]
Of course, death of the mother is the most serious of all complications. Over 200 women have died from legal abortions since 1973. [103] The risk of death increases according to the duration of pregnancy [104] and the complexity of the abortion technique employed. [105]
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tp 9:58am
In fact, recognizing the trauma of abortion is a more recent trend in the abortion industry. When the battle to legalize abortion began and for many years after abortion was legalized, it was touted as simple, safe, virtually painless, and that women experience mainly relief and no short or long term emotional trauma. Naturally this was promoted by the abortion industry since it served their purposes so well.
I have seen advertisements about the supportive caring staff in abortion clinics so why is a doula necessary?
Laura, stop lying! Some women report pain during abortion. It’s like childbirth. Every case is different.
Mary, George Tiller employs nurse’s aids. That’s what Edna [cock] Roache is. I’ve read that she is a very nasty woman.
Hippie, 10:09am
I hope your birth experiences weren’t compromised in any way. The staff attending the births of my 3 children were incredible. It was a wonderful experience for me each time.
I had a doula and I thought she was as helpful as a pebble in my shoe.
For childbirth, not an abortion.
Heather,
I understand these women do not even receive training as nurse’s aides, now called patient care technicians. PCTs must be properly trained and certified. I understand Edna Roach has supervised patient care and administered drugs, something she is in no way credentialled to do. Doesn’t the state of Kansas have a licensing and regulation board? Any other facility would be hung out to dry for permitting something like this.
I had a doula and I thought she was as helpful as a pebble in my shoe.
Posted by: rosie at November 2, 2007 10:22 AM
I understand. The staff didn’t help me to much because everything was so fast. The second was induced and was kind of scary because there was no doctor or nurse there and my husband was out it the hallway trying to get a nurse to come in to check on me. It was only a like ten minutes but it seemed like a long time because I didn’t know if anyone even knew the baby was coming. A nurse did come about 2 minutes before he was born. If I had a doula, she could have a least been calm enough to push the call button instead of leave me all alone till the last minute. The birth was so easy but it was nerve wracking to have no doctor at all and no nurse till the last second. I know they don’t expect labor to be less than an hour, but still you are paying thousands of dollars, you kind of expect them to at least be there.
I’m a birth doula, and I am sickened by this! My role is to help a women make the transition into being a mother-all my training was geared towards the miracle of birth-this is disgusting! I don’t want the word doula anywhere near the word abortion-it goes against everything I stand for!
And how on earth would you train someone to do that? ick
saracrompton…Thank you! It is disgusting. I recall a woman who had an abortion. She asked the abortionist if she could “see” the removed products. I guess she felt a need to satisfy her curiosity. They allowed her to look. I found it sickening. It’s not like you will be looking at a live baby folks. Just pieces and parts.
‘Stigma hasn’t left abortion patients’
June 24 2002 at 09:57AM
Staff Reporters
There is a widespread stigma attached to abortion patients and many are mistreated or neglected by hospital staff, the Reproductive Health Alliance has said.
Talking about an insert flighted on M-Net’s Carte Blanche on Sunday night, which showed the maltreatment of abortion patients at an Mpumalanga hospital, alliance project leader Judy Merckel said these attitudes occurred at a number of places.
On Sunday night, Carte Blanche staved off an application by the Mpumalanga health department to forbid it from screening the insert.
At 7.40pm Pretoria High Court Judge Eberhardt Bertelsmann refused to grant the interdict, saying the media had the right to broadcast what was in the public interest.
Carte Blanche – which broadcast the insert five minutes later – undertook to grant Mpumalanga Health MEC Sibongile Manana an opportunity to respond in next Sunday’s programme.
The department could not be reached for comment.
Secretly videotaped footage showed how:
Abortion patients at the Philadelphia Hospital near Groblersdal were forced to carry out the abortions themselves.
Patients had to throw away the aborted foetuses themselves.
Nurses verbally abused and ill-treated patients.
Merckel said the hospital featured was one that the alliance had been looking into because of the bad attitude of nursing staff toward abortion patients.
‘Little evidence’ to show impact of abortions
Christian group challenges abortion act
Abandoned newborns put focus on abortion
Thousands still resort to illegal abortions
Christian lawyers call for abortion controls
‘Abortion: let reluctant doctors refuse’
Abortion law not easy to implement
Abortion: Medics to be urged to do duty
Now, bad drugs hit back-street abortions
Bid to stop M-Net’s abortion expos?ails
Heather,
I just know that at one hospital I trained at scheduling around abortion patients was necessary. Thankfully, we didn’t see many abortion patients or it would really have been a problem. Most OR staff refused to be involved and those that would were often resentful of being “stuck” with doing abortions. This often resulted in unfair distribution of major and longer cases, also generating resentment.
Talking about an insert flighted on M-Net’s Carte Blanche on Sunday night, which showed the maltreatment of abortion patients at an Mpumalanga hospital, alliance project leader Judy Merckel said these attitudes occurred at a number of places.
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Awwwww DAMN!
I was looking forward to having a surgical procedure done in a strife-ridden third-world country, and now you’ve ruined it for me!
The quality is just NOT what I thought it would be…
Mary, were you ever present at an abortion, or were you one who refused?
Mary, Did the training hospital do third trimester abortions?
“I’ve never heard a women mention physical pain occuring during an abortion, other than cramp-like sensations.” — Laura
Well, then listen up.
I have had two abortions, and they were both excruciatingly painful. They hurt physically during the abortions, and the emotional pain is with me every day since.
I have two other children that I love dearly and every day I think how I wish the other two were here with them, how I wish I could go back and undo their murders. No one can love you unconditionally like your children can and when you kill them, you kill love, and you kill part of yourself.
I was afraid; I was afraid that my husband would not be there to support us, and I did not want to be another black woman on welfare.
I realize now that I could have made it through those crises without killing my children, but it is too late.
Don’t ever believe anyone who tells you that abortion isn’t painful, physically and emotionally. They just want to exploit your crisis for their gain. They don’t care whether you hurt or not, as long as they don’t feel a thing.
Yes, some deliveries are more painful and difficult than others. But that pain and travial ends in joy that a new life has come into the world, which is the natural resolution of pregnancy and birthing. Some abortions are also more painful and difficult than others. But because the natural resolution is aborted, the aborting mother’s soul gets stuck in travail, with no relief. No “ab”doula can fix that.
Stop lying to frightened women in crisis. They need love, not abortion.
Tiffany, thank you for sharing! Welcome.
Monica Lewinsky had an abortion. Not Bill’s baby. She wrote in her book “The abortion was one of the most painful and noisy procedures that I have ever been through.” “It was awful.”
I have had two abortions, and they were both excruciatingly painful. They hurt physically during the abortions, and the emotional pain is with me every day since.
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You found abortion to be excruciatingly painful on both a physical and emotional level, yet chose to do it AGAIN?
Back away from the stove, the car keys, and any power tools you might have laying around…
(By the way, your “woman on Welfare” reference reveals that you knew you had options, but chose abortion. Other women would appreciate having the option you embraced TWICE!)
Heather,
I refused, which was an option for a student or an employee. Only first trimester abortions were done.
We could also refuse to do tubal ligations if there were any qualms. As far as I know no one, myself included, refused to do them.
Tiffany,
I also welcome you and thank you for sharing your story.
Here she is folks, Laura Sanger!
Laura,
Can’t people make mistakes and acknowldege them?
Have you never repeated a mistake or two? If you’re like me and the rest of the human race, you have.
Mary, how true. I thought that pro choicers considered themselves to be these “bastions of tolerance.” I’m beginning to think otherwise, unless you will just have the abortion, and keep your mouth shut. Mary, I was curious. I didn’t know that hospitals did first trimester abortions. Why didn’t these women go to the abortion clinics? Were these d/t maternal health problems?
Mary, in other words, were these procedures elective?
Heather,
Yes the procedures were elective. We had a couple of OBs, one a real ghoul, the other everyone’s grandfather, who did them. They were few and far between. This was over 20 years ago so I have no idea if they still do them.
There were no nearby abortion clinics. I haven’t seen any other hospitals since then that have done them, and I’ve worked in quite a few.
My girlfriend who worked in surgery in California hospitals said a lot of first trimester abortions were done there. They were always referred to as “therapeutic abortions” but were certainly elective. I don’t know if that is still the case.
A few things:
1) Miriam Perez, author of the original article, is a certified birth doula.
2) Perez is Latina, so I am pretty sure she would disagree with the analysis that there is a sinister plan among doulas to extinguish Latin@s.
3) The Birth Sisters are a group of doulas who are affiliated with a specific hospital and serve lower-income patients (which I’m sure includes some Latinas and migrant women).
4) Being a doula is not a medical role – it is a support role. Doulas are not medical practitioners and therefore do not dispense medical advice. However, they can help a woman understand her options, clarify her desires, and advocate for herself. As a doula, I will be making no medical decisions or dispensing medical advise.
5) The assumption that doulas are an anti-abortion monolith is patently false. When someone posted a similar article by Perez on alldoulas.com, the response was pretty evenly split.
6) The pro-choice movement does not deny that abortion can be a very difficult decision for some women. That’s why there are after abortion talk-back lines and support groups run by various pro-choice organizations. However, we do not pathologize it (neither does the APA).
7) As a pro-choicer and doula-in-training, I see the value helping women access a support network regardless of what decision she makes regarding a pregnancy. And I will not be made to feel bad for doing so.
Tiffany, thank you for your courage and for sharing with us the TRUTH of abortion. It is an ugly truth! And PS…. pay no mind to Laura!! :)
6) The pro-choice movement does not deny that abortion can be a very difficult decision for some women.
Posted by: doula-in-training at November 2, 2007 12:26 PM******************************************************************************************************* You haven’t met Laura yet.
doula-in-training, I just don’t understand what your role will be. Who will pay for your services? I thought that most abortion patients were poor. How will they afford you?
“You found abortion to be excruciatingly painful on both a physical and emotional level, yet chose to do it AGAIN?”
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Laura…what’s the matter? Can’t you defend her CHOICE?? I thought you were pro-CHOICE?
Posted by: doula-in-training at November 2, 2007 12:26 PM
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Hey Doula-in-training,
Do we know each other from another board? I show up as “Spinwidddy”
RSD, great response!
Hey Doula-in-training,
Do we know each other from another board? I show up as “Spinwidddy”
Posted by: Laura at November 2, 2007 12:41 PM***************************** Oh no! You scared her off, and I had a few serious questions for her. Darn!
I scared her off?
Where is she?
Who will pay for a doula to be with the abortion patient? It had better NOT be welfare!!
Laura…what’s the matter? Can’t you defend her CHOICE?? I thought you were pro-CHOICE?
Posted by: RSD at November 2, 2007 12:40 PM
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She can have as many abortions as she chooses. Apparently she didn’t find the experience so awful or she wouldn’t have gone for the repeat.
Other women appreciate having that choice too!
Erm…maybe I’m just a little more in the now, but I don’t really see the need for a ‘doula’ for an abortion or for childbirth. Doesn’t seem like they really serve any valid purpose. They what, talk you through it or something? It just kinda sounds like the kind of spiritual stuff that in my mind, at least, doesn’t have any distinct place in a medical setting. Or maybe I’m just hardwired for skepticism.
*grins* On the other hand, I found an awesome new webcomic last night.
http://cectic.com/014.html
She can have as many abortions as she chooses. Apparently she didn’t find the experience so awful or she wouldn’t have gone for the repeat.
Other women appreciate having that choice too!
Posted by: Laura at November 2, 2007 12:52 PM
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The first response, although not intended, is usually the most honest one….You flip-flopped on this one…
Pls note…I’m NOT attacking you personally..just posting my observation…
Have a nice day!
Erin, I was kind of wondering why also. Don’t most abortions only take about 15 minutes?
Besides, that’s what I thought abortion clinic nurses were paid to do. Labor can take hours upon hours.
*shrugs* Spend your money on what you want, I guess. Me, I’m going to spend it on the nice drugs rather than some kind of odd personal trainer in my room with me.
yup, the whole thing seems very strange. It’s not like labor.
Laura has proven, again and again, just how indifferent the poor choice crowd really is to the sufferings of women which they exploit for profit.
Her comments would serve to only exacerbate the pain Tiffany expressed, while pro-lifers seek to have it as healed as it legitimately can be on earth. Sadistic, calloused, little lying murdering scum; she’s no different from the “wham bam thank you ma’am” predators who feed the deathmill more “grist”, or the “wham bam thank you ma’am” predator profiteers who operate the mill and thrive on the blood of innocents. Once they get what they want from her, however destructive it is to her, they will throw her to the wolves to avoid responsibility for their damages.
Having a repeat abortion does not mean that it is a “choice” to be celebrated, especially if the woman was given birth control pills after the first abortion as a “preventive”, as they usually are. This is an extremely deceptive but effective marketing tool of the industry. PP, et al, know d@mned good and well that birth control pills, condoms, etc., ad nauseam, CANNOT and WILL NOT ensure that their quarry won’t get pregnant again. They are more likely to ensure that she will stay sexually active and, especially if she is unmarried, that any children she conceives will be unexpected, and therefore considered an inconvenience rather than a blessing, and will be as unwanted by their mother as they are by PP. But Laura and her sorry ilk don’t give a damn about anyone else but themselves.
Where as Laura expressed one whit of concern or sympathy for Tiffany’s suffering? Nowhere. She could not muster even a token apology. She couldn’t care less unless she were smaller. Is she fit to address women’s issues? No. Is she typical of the proabort crowd? YES. They will exploit any wounded or dead woman, be it Gerri Santoro or Tiffany, to further their agenda and inflict more suffering, murder and mayhem on women in crisis and their innocent children. And you, gentle readers, have proof positive of it here in more of her own toxic, self-serving, words.
Tiffany, and millions of other like her, have found and will find healing in facing the pain of guilt, not in denying it, as Laura and ilk would like them to do in order to justify the bloodbath they support. Isn’t it ironic?
The first response, although not intended, is usually the most honest one….You flip-flopped on this one…
Posted by: RSD at November 2, 2007 1:03 PM
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I didn’t “flip-flop” at all.
I endorse her decision to have as many abortions as she pleases. I just have to wonder why she reapeated if it was so horrid.
My best guess is that she really didn’t find it that bad…
heather- I’m pretty sure if I was in labor, I’d be opting for the drugs then too.
JTM, thank you. Erin, I’m with you on that one. I just find it totally silly to have a doula present for a 15 minute abortion. That’s what a nurse should be there for.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
US (German-born) physicist (1879 – 1955)
Tiffany,
Thanks for sharing your story. I am so sorry you experienced so much pain.
Great post JTM
They will exploit any wounded or dead woman, be it Gerri Santoro or Tiffany, to further their agenda and inflict more suffering, murder and mayhem on women in crisis and their innocent children.
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OK, let pretend that I decided it might be fun to grind down my nipples with a belt sander. Afterwards I find that the experience was physically painful and emotionally wrenching.
If I did it AGAIN would you assume that;
A) I must have liked it on some level, OR
B) That I’m dumb as a sack of hammers.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
US (German-born) physicist (1879 – 1955)
Posted by: Laura at November 2, 2007 1:30 PM
This would pretty much sum up you Laura. You keep coming to this site over and over again expecting to have people believe the crapola you spew on this site.
O_O
OMG, pain. That’s going to make my nipples psychosomatically hurt for the rest of the day.
SSSAAAANNNDDYYY!!! Hello.
Hi Heather!
How are you! I wish I could stick around. Gotta go for now. I will check in later.
Laura, it’s sort of like when you come to Jill’s blog…I can only conclude the following..A) You love coming here, or B) You love coming here.
Laura, it’s sort of like when you come to Jill’s blog…I can only conclude the following..A) You love coming here, or B) You love coming here.
Posted by: heather at November 2, 2007 1:58 PM
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I love debate. That’s exactly why I come here.
I would be at my favorite AOL abortion board, but all of our best pro-lifers – the really scary ones – all decided to implode in the same week a few months ago.
As someone who has utilized doulas for all three deliveries, I can say that NOT having her around would have definitely resulted in some c-sections, especially when #2 came in at a whopping 10 lbs., no anesthesia, thank you very much.
And I’m only five feet tall.
Ab-doulas? I suppose it’s like referring to an abortionist as a “doctor”, someone who supposedly enables healing, but hijacks the essence of their vocation.
Or like calling abortion facilities “clinics”. Health care for some, but not for the littlest.
It’s like inverting their purpose. Imagine it…
“Okay, mama, in a moment they’re going to turn it on and you’ll feel some cramping. Imagine as though a cotton ball floating in water is making its way into the ocean…breathe, baby, breathe.”
Bendito.
I wish I had a doulas for my daughter’s birth. I wanted an epideral but found out to late that I can’t have one because of a sway back.
Laura – I have a few question for you. Are this unsympathetic to a woman who leaves her second abusive husband when she realizes she deserves better? She had one and then went to another – is she insane or was she just in need of help and didn’t know how to get that help?
or how about the woman who is a recovering alcoholic and has a couple relapses before she stays clean?
or how about the woman who is an anerexic who cannot stop starving herself? She gets better and gains some weight only to freak out and start loosing again?
or how about the woman whose father abused her and she goes from one abusive relationship to another?
Does this mean that all these women are insane and unworthy of help? These women all made the same mistake more than once.
Why are you so cold – hearted?
Welcome Tiffany! I hope you stay. Please realize that Laura isn’t the norm here. I’m sure that even most of the pro-choicers will agree with me on that.
In the 80’s there used to be a professional wrestler called “Abdullah the Butcher”. Your epithet makes me think of that. He often was involved in the bloodiest conflicts– in steel cage matches in Japan– the bloodiest kind.
Oh yeah, Suzanne. I almost mentioned something about him, but I didn’t think anyone would know who he was. His forehead is more disgusting than Dusty Rhodes. I believe he owns a restaurant called “Abbys house of ribs.”
One of my good [online] friends is considering becoming a doula/midwife actually…so it’s funny that this was mentioned when I was just helping her out a few weeks ago look up midwife programs to do once her baby is old enough.
And by doula, I believe that she is going to do the whole help with prepping for labor and then staying a few days after birth to help the mother get used to having a baby ’round and help with house chores and what not…
I love debate. That’s exactly why I come here.
I would be at my favorite AOL abortion board, but all of our best pro-lifers – the really scary ones – all decided to implode in the same week a few months ago.
Posted by: Laura at November 2, 2007 2:08 PM
The problem with you Laura is that you don’t debate. What you really do is insult people
on a personal level. You are crude, rude and disrespectful. You think you are so smug with your snide comments.
Laura,
On the other hand, I’ve never heard a women mention physical pain occuring during an abortion, other than cramp-like sensations.
And I’ll bet all the women were laughing as they shared their war stories. Because despite the pain, it was a joyous occasion.
We feel physical pain for a few hours, and then it’s over.
Women who have abortions may feel little or no physical pain, but afterwards are haunted by spiritual and emotional pain that last for lifetimes…
A little pain med can ease our pain. But I know of know magic pill that will take away the after pain of an abortion.
Oh great, they’ve stolen yet another word, changed it’s meaning, and turned it into something dark and sinister.
First “baby” get turned into “fetus”.
Then pregnancy now means “debilitating illness”
Choice no longer means option, it means death.
Marriage no longer means the union of a man and woman…it means the union of anything you want to unite with.
Human being can be anything from a toenail to a tonsil.
Person must be defined by law.
Hey, just yesterday, someone was trying redefine adult…seems that babies and adults are the same thing…
Now, we take a word that has ALWAYS been associated with bringing new life into the world, and turn it into a more glorified “Deathscort”…
It’s like we always say. Satan is an imitator. He can’t come up with anything new. He is forced to lie, steal, and copy…
You’re right Jill, if it wasn’t so terrifying, it would be funny.
MK,
If you thought that I was trying to redefine adulthood, you really did completely miss my point.
I was not asking about the difference because I don’t believe in one or because I’m trying to alter it.
Yeah Enigma,
I know…but it fit the post. And really it was phylosopher that was messin’ with the definitions.
Were any of my thousand answers what you were lookin’ for? Or am I still missin’ the point of the question?
Ya gotta love nurse ratchett!
Does this mean that all these women are insane and unworthy of help? These women all made the same mistake more than once.
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…And in every scenerio you described, there is a treatable emotional illness. I never said that they were unworthy of help, but they ARE repeaating the same behavior over and over, yet expecting a different outcome.
…And in every scenerio you described, there is a treatable emotional illness. I never said that they were unworthy of help, but they ARE repeaating the same behavior over and over, yet expecting a different outcome.
Posted by: Laura at November 2, 2007 7:18 PM
Again Laura, Hello pot! you just described yourself. Insane. You repeat the same mantras on this site over and over again, and somehow expect you will convince us that abortion is acceptable. I’m not sure if your illness is treatable, but once again I offer the number. 1-800-GET-HELP. It’s worth a try.
You repeat the same mantras on this site over and over again, and somehow expect you will convince us that abortion is acceptable.
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No, actually abortion is acceptable and legal in every state of the Union. I win.
You’re the one beating your head against the wall for no apparent reason.
Is that “get help” thing the only bit you have?
@mk
You still don’t get it. Enigma tried, Bobby tried, I tried.
You’re still missing the point. Babies and adults would be the same thing according to your line of reasoning. We merely pointed that out.
GEESH, I just looked back on my posts. Eh, I think I made it look as though I was compairing abortion to childbirth. …That was not my intent. Actually, it seems as though the abortion doula is just one more thing to help make abortion acceptable. *note to self*…don’t type while tired. Just wanted to clear the air.
Phylosopher,
No I don’t get it because in order to become an adult, by defintion, time must pass. I’m beginning to think it’s you that isn’t getting it.
According to my line of reasoning everything that is needed to be a human person is there at conception. Nothing will be added to the mix except time.
I said that a fetus IS a baby, Because that is the definition.
I said that all fetuses are babies, but not all babies are fetuses.
I said that to become an adult, this little tiny being must mature. Not change, mature. Adult does not denote anything being added, it is defined by the passing of time.
I don’t see how in any way saying that at conception everything that is needed to be considered a human person is present also says that everything that is needed to make an adult is present. It’s not. Time is missing.
I think this idea of a doula is unbelievable! I had a doula for 3 of my 4 births and she was wonderful. I also had my 4 via homebirth because my doctor did homebirths at that time. I still had the doula and she was great for that birth because transition was so long for this birth.
I think the reality of having a doula at an abortion is an abomination – it’s about trying to make the mother feel comfortable about her decision to destroy the life within her.
Maybe they will use them for late term abortions? The idea is monstrous!
Tiffany, it takes courage to share something so painful for you; this shows that you have strength and integrity; your remaining children are as blessed to have you for a mother as you are to have them. You are extremely fortunate to have survived two abortions; many women don’t survive the first one. I will keep you and yours in my prayers. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. This includes you, and anyone else in your position!
Laura,
We continue to intercede for the unborn because their lives are precious to us. If you were the one about to be ripped to shreds and we tried to prevent it, you might tell us to stop “beating our heads against a wall”, but as long as you’re breathing, you’ll never prove it by us. Why not take some of your own advice, and stop beating your own head against a brick wall?! The shedding of innocent blood cries out to heaven for vengeance, and those who shed it will answer to God for it. No law will ever change that. IN the meantime, everytime a woman chooses life, she wins, the child wins, and we win. I can’t speak for Sandy, but I probably represent her much more fairly than you in saying that the “get help” thing isn’t the only bit we have, it’s just the first thing that comes to mind when reading your (com)posts.
JTM,
You are so right about Laura’s cruel, calloused attitude being typical of the abortion profiteers and their supporters. I have been involved in sidewalk counseling and other prolife streetwork for over a decade, and I cannot tell you the number of women who have come up to me on the street and told me about the indescribable physical pain they experienced during the abortion, and the cruel, calloused, cold treatment they have received from the abortionist and his/her staff.
I have shared previously on this site the account of one woman who changed her mind just before the abortion began and begged the killer not to go through with it. He told her it was too late, which was a lie; laminaria had been inserted the previous day and had expanded, but laminaria can be removed by a competent physician so that the woman suffers no harm, and the pregnancy can continue safely as well. One can only conclude from this not only is he dishonest, but he is also not a competent physician. That is typical; abortionists are known professionally as the cream of the crap of medical professionals. Anyway, this rotten excuse for a doctor and a human being went ahead with killing this woman’s child, and added further insult to her injury by dangling the pieces of the baby in her face as he removed them, indentifying them in a sing-songy voice, “Here’s a little arm and here’s a little leg”, ad nauseam.
Another woman had driven from another state to get an abortion at a Planned Parenthood mill, but left because while she was in the waiting room, she heard a woman screaming from a back room, presumably either a killing chamber or a “recovery” room. What impressed her the most, and made her decide to leave, was her observation that one of the staffers in the waiting room, who also heard the woman screaming (everyone who wasn’t deaf could hear her loud and clear) did nothing to alleviate the woman’s pain and suffering, but instead turned the music up in the waiting room to try to drown it out. (This is reminiscent of the Nazi practice of getting the musically skilled prisoners in their concentration camp to play cheerful music in front of them, mainly to mask the horrors going on behind those walls. The Nazi-PP connection is well established at eugenics-watch.com, for anyone interested.)
There are many other accounts like this; these two just stand out as representative of all of them.
Anyone wanting to read still more evidence of this is encouraged to read the book LIME 5, available from life dynamics. It’s somewhat dated, but given the number of abortionists sued and/or sent to jail for sexual assault, malpractice, wrongful death, etc., and the number of killing chambers closed since it was published, there is plenty of evidence that nothing that it reveals about the killing industry has changed since then.
To Heather, Kristi, Sandy, Valerie and Pat,
Thank you for your kindness and encouragement.
I don’t blog very much because I am busy with school, work and my children, but I just could not let that lie about abortion being “painless” in any sense stand. If I can keep just one woman from suffering as I have, physically, emotionally and relationally, it is the least I can do.
Laura is an embarrassment as a woman and as a person. It is clear that she has no compassion, and nothing but contempt for real women who face the responsibilities of child-bearing, however faultily. At least I have admitted my sin, and my responsibility, and will not repeat it. But if Laura can delude even one more woman into the chamber of horrors of an abortion “clinic”, it makes her life worthwhile. HOW SICK!
Thank you all again, with the obvious exception of Laura,
Sincerely,
Tiffany.
Tiffany, you’re welcome. Come back if you have time.
Is that “get help” thing the only bit you have?
Posted by: Laura at November 2, 2007 9:32 PM
Is that “abortion good” thing the only bit you have?
Sandy, lol!
Tiffany: Laura is an embarrassment as a woman and as a person. It is clear that she has no compassion, and nothing but contempt for real women who face the responsibilities of child-bearing, however faultily.
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“Real women” face the responsibilities of childbearing?
I guess those two abortions mean that you’re not a “real woman.”
Why Laura,
“Real women” face the responsibilities of childbearing?
I guess those two abortions mean that you’re not a “real woman.”
I thought you said it WAS a responsible thing to have an abortion…are you pro life now? Is abortion irresponsible?
Wow, I’ll alert the media!
I thought you said it WAS a responsible thing to have an abortion…are you pro life now? Is abortion irresponsible?
Wow, I’ll alert the media!
Posted by: mk at November 4, 2007 4:28 PM
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No, TIFFANY said that “real women” face the responsibility of childbearing.
By her own standard, she’s not a “real women.”
Laura,
Were you bit by a rabid bat and didn’t know it?
I heard that can easily happen to people who work with animals.
You should get that checked out. I think symptoms of rabbies include foaming at the mouth, irratibility, and not thinking clearly.
I know you have two out of the three symptoms.
Noone with a fully developed brainstem could read Tiffany’s posts and conclude that she considered abortion, itself, a responsible or good thing…but Laura cruelly (and predicatably) co-opted and twisted her thoughts and exploited her pain to further the agenda which has already caused her, and countless others like her, enough pain and suffering. HOW SICK IS THAT?
Facing one’s guilt for aborted children, and grieving for them, is much more responsible than denying it, or calling it a “good” thing. Certainly a more pro-child attitude, and Tiffany’s posting of her own errors and the pain caused by her wrong choices is much more responsible than keeping silent about her experiences…which is why it is so abhorrent to Laura.
Many women who go the denial/suppression route tend to take the bottled negativity out on children they do have. Tiffany is evidently going the better way…despite Laura’s typical vicious, bassackwards, anti-woman, anti-child, self-serving, non-contructive b.s.
Tiffany wants to spare other women and their children the hell she went through, whereas Laura wants them subjected to more of it. Seems they’re both responsible; Tiffany for trying to alleviate needless suffering and death for others, Laura for trying to inflict more of it on others.
If anyone is the worse for Tiffany’s courage and honesty, it’s clearly not the children she still has.
Sandy, all the best in getting Loony Laura the treatment that she and everyone within her sphere of influence so badly need her to have ASAP.