Muslim riots in France
The spark of the current riots in France was not just that two “minority” teens, as this article called them, were killed when their motorscooter hit a police car. They were, in fact, Muslim teens, and the rioters are primarily Muslim….
MSM and even Fox News have seemed to avoid this point. But from today’s LA Times comes a little clarity:
“It’s a way of making people understand we’ve had enough,” says Charlie Koissi…. “When you touch one of our brothers, no matter what [his] origin, it concerns us.”
Raymonde Le Texier… describes pent-up rage by black and Muslim children of immigrants who feel lost and abandoned in the projects….
Theirs is a world apart, with its own codes and subculture….
This time around, the violence came faster and more furiously than in 2005.
During 200 nights of clashes between ghetto youth and riot police that year, there was only one death and sporadic injuries. But after only two nights of confrontations this week, 80 police officers were hospitalized, including six who were seriously injured when rioters assaulted them with stones, gas bombs and firecrackers. At least two dozen officers were hit by pellets fired from guns.
“We’re not talking about urban violence anymore, we’re talking about insurrection,” says Patrice Ribeiro, head of the police union Synergie Officers. “It’s more violent than in 2005. . . . We have armed people shooting at police. We knew it was going to happen and it happened.”
The LAT blames poverty. No.
Poor people don’t automatically get mean. Poor people don’t burn down their own schools and libraries, their way out of poverty. Only ignorant, backward people do. Here’s what’s really going on.
Europe is increasingly becoming Eurasia as indigenous populations don’t populate while Muslims immigrate and do. France has the largest Muslim population in Western Europe. France is now 10-15% Muslim, with estimates that 20-30% of those under 25 are Muslim, like those rioters.
Meanwhile, France currently ranks 136th out of 222 countries with a fertility rate of 1.98, according to the CIA. To sustain a population, never mind grow it, the fertility rate must be 2.1. This is not a new phenomenon in France or any of Europe for that matter.
In fact, the French riots can in large part be blamed on population control propaganda, which duped the French to stop spawning, which also forced them to welcome Muslim immigrants, who don’t assimilate.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Mark Steyn’s America Alone addresses this issue presciently. It’s too late for Europe to assimilate this hateful Islamic horde; they must be dealt with ruthlessly now.
Anyone in American politics who does not see and understand the problem of Islam must be denied office, or removed from office.
Jerome-
Good morning. Wow nothing like starting a fire so early in the morning:) You are correct that radical Islam is a major problem to world peace. Unfortunatly most Americans don’t understand their agenda. They want an Islamic world where we are all under Shriah law. NO THANK YOU!! They want to wipe Jews first then Christians out. One of the consequences will be that WOMEN will be worth as much as animals, and treated as such. Can you imagine Laura or Sally wearing a burka?
You have three choices is a country that becomes Islamic: 1)you convert 2)if you don’t convert you die 3)If you are lucky they might just make you second class citizens and make you pay a special tax (which is alot), and you are barred from certain occupations. Like in Egypt.
Talking is a great stall tactic, Hitler taught us that, and Iran is using it now. Chamberlin taught us that appeasement doesn’t work either. WWII would never had happened if Britain and France had protected Chechoslovakia and Poland like they had promised. You cannot appease or negotiate with radical Islamists. They don’t care, they don’t want peace and they want anyone different then themselves converted or dead!
Any time anyone thinks ‘god says Im better than you’ then they are potentially dangerous. If I remember my history correctly, France has had trouble with immigrants for decades. Werent Algerians rioting in the 60s?
Hi Tara!!!
Very well said.
I feel that many American’s think that this is some type of “fairy tale”…that it can never happen here. We really need to wake up now! We have all of the warning signs, we watch it happening in various countries, but we’re still sleeping.
OH MY GOD! This is incredible. I cannot believe it. This, Jill, is an all-time low for you! And for both of the people who have commented so far. It DISGUSTS me that your knowledge of this only goes as far as the popular media.
First of all, riots like this in France are not newsworthy. France has a very vocal youth and riots are not uncommon at all, especially in suburban Paris. I lived there, remember?
Jill said:
In fact, the French riots can in large part be blamed on population control propaganda, which duped the French to stop spawning, which also forced them to welcome Muslim immigrants, who don’t assimilate.
What the hell gives you the authority to make such bull conclusions? I don’t even know how to respond to such ignorance.
No one is EVER forced to welcome any immigrants. And let me tell you, becoming a French citizen or national is not an easy process because it involves going through the infamous French bureaucracy, which is famously a paperwork death trap.
Furthermore, no one has to assimilate if they don’t want to. Cultures can work together side-by-side, and they make it work in France. You’ve got a few racist jerks here and there, as you have anywhere (apparently here…), and you have got more Muslim neighborhoods, as you have got certain neighborhoods here that have predominantly a minority population. But you are creating a problem where there really is none.
As for Jerome and Tara…
Tara, yes. You are absolutely correct. Radical Muslims are creating problems for world peace. I think that you are forgetting that radical Muslims are only a very small fringe of Islam, which is actually a very beautiful and enriching culture and religion and is not sexist. Yes, sexism prevails in some areas of the world, and Tara cited the burka, or hijab. The hijab is not sexist. It is supposed to be liberating. It is only sexist when women are forced to wear it and they don’t want to.
When Muslim women elect to wear the hijab (as is most often the case in the West and also some areas of the Middle East as well) it is to avoid judgments on their looks. Consider this as an example:
When you look at a picture of a Muslim woman in hijab what does it evoke? In most people of the West it makes them think of repression, discrimination against women–maybe even hatred towards women.
What would many Muslim women think when looking at a western magazine–say, perhaps, a Sports Illustrated with a half… oh, let’s be honest, more than half naked woman on the cover in some provocative pose. What does that evoke? Not liberation or freedom of expression, but repression, discrimination against women, etc etc.
The hijab is often an opportunity for Muslim women (yes, I’ll concede, not always) to liberate themselves from the unrealistic standard we westerners have for female beauty.
Of course, the irony is that they are judged still–being labeled as terrorists or whatever nonsense.
Tara, if radical Muslims somhow take over the world or whatever, yeah… if you don’t convert, you’ll die. But if the Muslims in France become the majority, then no one will be put to death or taxed. Most Muslims are not extreme, as you seem to be implying.
Jerome, no one will deny the problem with radical Islam. But normal Islam–that is the Ismal that is widely practiced is no more problematic than Christianity… oh wait, except that they aren’t Christians. If you honestly believe that you need to get your ignorant head out of the sand and educate yourself. No. Get someone else to educate you. You’re obviously failing.
Leah, you are amazing, and so right.
Gee, I remember Jonestown, Waco, The Atlanta Olympic Bombing, Aryan Nations, the Army of God, Christian Identity, the Klan, Christian Falangists, etc…
Seem like all those evil Christians might be a more immediate danger.
Gee, I remember Jonestown, Waco, The Atlanta Olympic Bombing, Aryan Nations, the Army of God, Christian Identity, the Klan, Christian Falangists, etc…
Seem like all those evil Christians might be a more immediate danger.
Posted by: Laura at November 28, 2007 11:15 AM
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Waco was ‘just down the road’ – I knew a woman who went to highschool with Koresh. Religious fanatics of ANY stripe make me uncomfortable. But the fanatical fundamentalist christians are right in my ‘back yard’ so to speak.
Laura said: “Seem like all those evil Christians might be a more immediate danger.”
What exactly do you mean by “immediate danger”?
TexasRed said: “But the fanatical fundamentalist christians are right in my ‘back yard’ so to speak.”
Please define, very specifically, what a “fanatical fundamentalist Christian” is.
John: Look up “Army of God” on the Internet, and you’ll have your answer.
TexasRed said: “Religious fanatics of ANY stripe make me uncomfortable.”
Out of curiosity, whom would you rather encounter: a fanatic Quaker or a fanatic Satanist?
John: Look up “Army of God” on the Internet, and you’ll have your answer.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 28, 2007 11:55 AM
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Thank you
TexasRed said: “Religious fanatics of ANY stripe make me uncomfortable.”
Out of curiosity, whom would you rather encounter: a fanatic Quaker or a fanatic Satanist?
Posted by: John Jansen at November 28, 2007 11:55 AM
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What part of ‘any stripe’ is too confusing for you?
I agree with TexasRed; I don’t want to encounter ANY kind of religious fanatic. I don’t care if they worship the freaking Smurfs…
Bravo, Leah!
I looked at this article and immediately sensed it was going to tick me off. I’m so glad that you put everything into words so beautifully!
As a final little note, judging all Middle Easterners is racist. For people who cringe about aborting black babies, you sure are making yourselves look bad.
OK, the two Anonymous posts are from me. The computer at work has a virus and apparently signed me out for no darn reason. URGH
Leah, 9:54a, said: “First of all, riots like this in France are not newsworthy. France has a very vocal youth and riots are not uncommon at all, especially in suburban Paris. I lived there, remember? … What the hell gives you the authority to make such bull conclusions? I don’t even know how to respond to such ignorance.”
Leah, just because you lived in France does not make you the authority of what’s going on in France. I get my authority from reading facts. I quote facts. I link to facts. I just don’t say I think something based on osmosis.
Muslims are a huge problem for and in France. Google it. This has been the topic of discussion for over a decade. You act like this is all a revelation to you, as if you’ve never heard this before. Have you actually not?
Midnite678 said: “I agree with TexasRed; I don’t want to encounter ANY kind of religious fanatic. I don’t care if they worship the freaking Smurfs…”
Interesting. So both of you agree that you would feel equal discomfort at encountering a fanatic Quaker and a fanatic Satanist.
All other things being equal, considering that Quakers are strict pacifists, which of the two would be more likely to pose physical danger to you if you were to meet each of them in a dark alley?
I’m also curious to know if you have equal contempt for fanatic Unitarian Universalists.
Erin.
Tell me, just what race is a middle Easterner? Say a Egyptian? Or a Uzbek?
And where are the “borders” of this mythical Middle East? Does it include Bali? Where Muslims murdered innocent human beings for Osama and Allah?
Does religion equal race?
Which race do Muslims represent?
Which race does Hinduism represent?
Which race does the religion of abortion represent?
John-
Seriously, what part of ANY fanatic religion don’t you understand exactly?
Leah, 9:54a, said: “First of all, riots like this in France are not newsworthy. France has a very vocal youth and riots are not uncommon at all, especially in suburban Paris.”
What an absolutely bizarre statement. Riots are not newsworthy and should not be reported? I don’t know what’s worse; the fact that riots are occuring or the fact that you don’t think they’re important enough to tell others about..
Hmm, still waiting for Texasredneck to define specifically what a “fanatical fundamentalist Christian” is.
What a redneck.
BTW, Ann Richards applied the law of killum all, let God sort um out. Now, that is the Redneck God, from redneck thinkers, such as you Texasred. Hmm, Ann Richards might be a redneck just like you Texasredneck.
Fact is, only Texasrednecks can butcher and burn, men women and children over some charge about child abuse, which was never proven.
Then again, Richards was for abortion too.
I agree with TexasRed; I don’t want to encounter ANY kind of religious fanatic. I don’t care if they worship the freaking Smurfs…
Posted by: Anonymous at November 28, 2007 12:17 PM
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Yup. Im not afraid of them. I simply am not comfortable around anyone who thinks ‘god says Im special and can do anything I want’. In fact Im not that comfortable around fanatical athiests either. Im an agnostic. But I had an experience with my mothers ghost, and my older son ‘remembered’ flying B17s when he was an ‘old man’. Ive known a couple of athiests who danged near went into a frothing fit at the mere mention of ghosts or reincarnation.
Keep gibbering and drooling like an incoherent imbecile yllas … its all youre good for.
Well, ain’t you special Texasredneck! Still waiting on that definition redneck.
Being you just admited your agnostic, proves one thing about you Tex. You know that you don’t know.
Self admited ignorance.
A- not
Gnosis– knowledge.
That’s why people laughed at Huxley too.
cool thing about Quakers-
they, along with the United Methodist Church, have been opposing capital punishment a while before the Catholic Church did.
When a person can’t answer a question which is asking for a definition of words which another person wrote, it appears your sophistry has come to a end. Still waiting for a defintion of a ” fanatical fundamentalist Christian” is.
I would say Ann Richards was a fanatical fundamental abortionist, whose blood lust for abortion, spilled out on the plains of East Texas.
She “stuck a fork” in those children in Waco, didn’t she Texasredneck.
Fact is Redneck, the only persons you should apply your paranoia to, is to Texas women governors, who believe in the religion of abortion.
REALLY interesting:
http://www.prolifequakers.org/prochoicepositions.htm
…Also notable; Richard Nixon was a Quaker, and appointed much of the court that made Roe v. Wade the law of the land.
The Roe Court:
Burger, C.J.(Nixon’69), Douglas (Roosevelt’39), Brennan (Eisenhower’56), Stewart (Eisenhower’58), White (Kennedy’62), Marshall (Johnson’67), Blackmun (Nixon’70), Powell (Nixon’71), Rehnquist (Nixon’71).
yllas:
Calling people a “redneck” is an insult to a Southerner (being that I am from Alabama, I understand this). You shouldnt call people names or sterotype them if you DONT know them!
As for your definition of a fanatical fundamentalist Christian, go to this website and you’ll see first hand what one is and what they “preach”..
http://www.armyofgod.com/
Leah,
Your point about the hijab is excellent. Even the burqa is not viewed as repressive by many Afghan women, who are not comfortable being viewed in public by any man other than their husbands and prefer the covering.
The chador was traditionally worn by Iranian women to demonstrate their religious piety and many of these women resented the chador becoming required attire after the 1979 revolution. They felt this took away from its significance.
We tend to view all this from a certain culturual viewpoint as repressive and sexist where women who live in these societies may not.
Jewish men wear yarmulkes, orthodox Jews wear the black hats, conservative Christian women may dress more conservatively, and Amish men and women dress according to their convictions. I can remember when Catholic women were required to cover their heads on entering church. Remember the chapel veils? Why would we have any issue with people exercising their religious convictions in a manner they see fit?
Jill and Leah,
I understand there has been concern about the militancy of the Muslim population in Paris as well. There was a major riot in 2005. I don’t believe they would have to go through the process of becoming French citizens since as citizens of former French colonies, they may already be considered French citizens. Someone correct me if I am wrong on this.
Minor point: Many of the violent fanatical Christians aren’t actually Christian. The rest are misguided. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is spread one heart at a time through the power of love and the Holy Spirit, not through threats and violence.
(I wonder if Muslims face the same problem? My understanding of Islam is very limited, so I don’t honestly know.)
That said, if we’re going to tally up the damage done by fanatical Christians versus fanatical Muslims … I’d guess that the fanatical Muslims are ahead. That’s certainly true these days. The “Army of God” aren’t nice people, but they’re nowhere near being in the same league as al-Qaeda….
Well, yllas wanted an example of a fanatical fundamentalist Christian, and The Army of God qualifies for that…
Also, viewing a group of people as a ‘problem’ is the kind of thinking rampant in holocaust times. The ‘Jew’ problem in Germany, and so on. People are not ‘problems’.
Leah, just because you lived in France does not make you the authority of what’s going on in France. I get my authority from reading facts. I quote facts. I link to facts. I just don’t say I think something based on osmosis.
I know it doesn’t, I’m not stupid. But the fact is that riots like this aren’t newsworthy. The fact is that I do know this and the fact is that I did live in France. I don’t claim to be any authority.
In any case, you missed my point. Reread what I wrote and see if you can catch it this time. Others seem to have accomplished that quite nicely.
“Justice and Truth for Larami and Moushin.”
The irony…
Thank you Jodes, by the way. You made my day brighter!
I deserve a definition from the person who wrote the words fanatical fundamentalist Christian. Not some web site. Texasredneck wrote thoe words. Texasredneck’s defintion is all the matters.
And as for redneck and Texas. I’m from Texas. Your from Alabama. When a AlabamaRedneck starts posting, I’ll let you handle him/her.
Any person who exhibits the character and personality of Texasred is a redneck. He/she gives Texas a bad name, as that redneck from East Texas, Ann Richards, gave Texas a bad name from her fantical religion of abortion.
I know the personality and character of Texas rednecks, and the writing and insults of Texasredneck fits um all.
For one, the word Texas is from the native word of the Catto Indians, derived from the Spanish interpetation, which is defined as FRIENDLY.
Texasred is not friendly, and its has been mentioned by more then just me.
Let the redneck from Texas, take another moniker and leave out Texas. Then his/her redneckiness might not be what defines that redneck from the friendly state.
Hey everyone,
I read the article that Jill linked to, but couldn’t figure out what the riots were really about. I got that two people were killed in an accident, but I can’t make the connection to the riots. The only other reason from the article was that the unemployment rate is 40%. I mean in France if you are unemployed you get assistance and healthcare so what is making them feel so angry? I am not trying to be a pain here. What am I missing?
Yllas you prove that your only function is to show your butt and shout to the world ‘Look at me! Im a bungling incompetent idiot!’
Haven’t posted here in a while…hope everyone’s well. This is an interesting post. I’m of French background and I know the French DO have a history of protest and rioting. I remember watching a panel on population growth on CSPAN a few months back and they were talking about the rate of growth of Muslims in Europe vs. the rest of Europe. The panel pointed out the two different rates of growth and graphs showing a Muslim majority sometime in the near future (not sure what the exact date or numbers were). My neighbors are Muslim and they are the nicest neighbors anyone could ever hope for, kind and generous. So I’m not particularly concerned by Islam or any religion for that matter taking over our governments and subjecting us all to radical ideals, however radical religion and fanatics of any denomination, I agree, can pose a big problem. I don’t think that any of the countries in Europe are in danger of becoming theocracies, which I know people are anxious over, and it’s understandable given the small percentage of fanatics that pose terrorist threats…However, it’s important to remember that these fringe extremists don’t represent Islam and that most Muslims are strongly against what these extremists represent. I don’t mean to speak for all Muslims, but what I gather from those I talk to, is they are just as against the fanatics as everyone else is and they hate it that a few crazies give their culture and religion a bad name. Leah, I agree with your comments about the burka and hijab, and I also find western images of half naked women to be oppressive and demeaning. We do get into a tricky area here with freedom of expression, because I believe, like you said, it should always be a matter of free will what a women (or man) chooses to wear whether is be a burka or bikini or nothing…It’s interesting also that some cultures are much more comfortable with nudity than we are here in the U.S. and they manage to do this tastefully, respectfully, and artistically. Why do you think in our western culture images of women are always so objectified? (Why can’t women be portrayed with more respect and not just as some barbie doll whose only purpose is to flash her privates in order to sell cars and beer!)
Yllas you prove that your only function is to show your butt and shout to the world ‘Look at me! Im a bungling incompetent idiot!’
Posted by: TexasRed at November 28, 2007 4:03 PM******************************************************************* It would take one to know one.
Anon, Re: “in France if you are unemployed you get assistance and healthcare so what is making them feel so angry? I am not trying to be a pain here. What am I missing?”
First of all, you’re not a pain, there’s no such thing as a stupid question…but just to put my few cents in on what you said…In this country, if you are unemployed you also get health care and assistance, which is also known as welfare. But receiving a gov’t handout, whether in France or the U.S. is not that same as being in a secure job where you can support yourself and your family and feel optimistic about the future. It is actually a stereotype that most people on welfare are lazy and don’t want to work, yes, some do abuse the system, but the majority of cases are people in very difficult situations (some in the media and corporations actually like to perpetuate the stereotype of the “welfare queen” because in actuality it is they who are the biggest “welfare queens” – the multi-billion dollar corporations that exploit tax loopholes, rake in millions in taxpayer money with laws they helped create, and export American jobs overseas so they can line their wallets with the savings of cheap foreign labor!)…Anyway, it is also a stereotype that being on welfare is easy…many on welfare are sick and can’t work, some are battered women and children, some suffer from mental illness and trauma like many of our troops coming home from war (see the spike in homeless vets and rise in Iraq war vet suicides) It’s a very hard life being on gov’t assistance because in almost all cases it just isn’t enough to pay the bills and support yourself or family. To make matters worse, the process that one must go through to receive these menial benefits is so dehumanizing that many who are eligible or in need choose to just go homeless/hungry (it really is that humiliating). I would rather have my own secure job any day of the week than try and survive on welfare. I bet the benefits in France aren’t all that great to make being on assistance more desirable than having one’s own job either.
it’s important to remember that these fringe extremists don’t represent Islam and that most Muslims are strongly against what these extremists represent.
Careful, now. If people start thinking, and stop stereotyping all Muslims as dangerous, extremist, non-assimilating, hateful, violent, etc, then all sorts of terrible things could happen. We might stop electing fearmongering, warmongering politicians, for one thing.
(By the way, the CIA World Factbook, to which Jill links for her statistic on the French fertility rate, also says that it is 5-10% Muslim, not 10-15%. That’s probably from 2003 or so. A poll in January 2007 put the number at 4%.)
To people like Jill and Jerome, who paint Islam itself as the problem: what exactly do you propose to do? Wipe it off the face of the earth? How?
Also notable; Richard Nixon was a Quaker
That always makes me sort of laugh ruefully. Worst. Quaker. Ever.
Nicole,
Thanks for your response. I really have to agree with what you have to say. I just have trouble connecting it with riots. Dumb as it sounds, it is just hard for me to understand what I don’t understand. Do you think that these rioters feel they are discriminated against and that is why they are unemployed? I mean, here in the US the public schools provide education so you can compete for the same jobs. I figure the same is true in France that the minorities can study for a vocation and compete for jobs. Do you think there is a lot of discrimination in hiring in France? or are the unemployed just not qualified for the available positions?
awesome, Jen!
Leah,
I would agree that if a woman decided to wear a hijab, that would be alright, bc no one forced her. But those under Shariah law have no say. They are not allowed to be educated, they are not allowed in the presence of a man without a male relative with them. Look what happened in Saudi Arabia, a girl who was ganged raped was sentenced to 90 lashes. The men who commited the crime got very light sentences. Should she be punished? I think not. It wasn’t her fault. The court said it was bc she was with a man who wasn’t a relative, but that is what Islamic law says. How about honor killings? This happens all the time. Women are set on fire, mutilated, and killed bc of something that a male relative decided dishonored te family. This is taught and accepted in Islamic states. This is what the extremists want to bring into fruition all over the world. And keeping our heads in the sand is not going to solve the problem.
What will help, is moderate Muslims that stand up and publically and loudly state that Iran, Hezbullah, Hamaz, AL-Queda and other terrorist groups/states are just that, Terrorists. I’d like to see Muslims take an active role in helping capture terrorists, condemn their activities and their objectives. But when 1 in 4 Muslims believe suicide bombings are acceptable to make their point known, it is impossible to think that Islam teaches peace and tolerence. The Koran calls Jews pigs.
Here are two books to read. They are written by Muslims. It certainly changed my understanding of Islam. It is not a peaceful. Jesus and Muhammad by Mark A. Gabriel, PhD Former professor of Islamic history at Al-Azhar University, Cairo, Egypt and the other is I Dared to Call Him Father by Bilquis Sheikh.
One more thought: If you or I decided to willfully convert to Islam, we would not be intimidated or killed by our families. But Islam calls for the killing of those who leave Islam. Muslims are called to kill infidels. And it is against Islamic law for anyone who is born Muslim to convert. There is a case in Egypt right now where a man who converted to Christianity is on trial. In that country Egyptians have papers that state what religion they are. This man wanted to have his papers changed from Muslim to Christian and he has been placed on trial for it. They have denied his request for change of religious status. Now he’s waiting to find out if he will go to jail. So much for tolerence.
But when 1 in 4 Muslims believe suicide bombings are acceptable to make their point known, it is impossible to think that Islam teaches peace and tolerence. The Koran calls Jews pigs.
I sure hope you have some sources to back that up, Tara.
It’s interesting to see that after reading two books on the subjects by two extremist Muslim authors you consider yourself to be an expert on the opnions of ALL MUSLIMS.
This would be like if I were to read a book by Jerry Falwell and one by Pat Robertson and assume they held the opinions of all Christians, all over the world.
I normally enjoy this blog, as I am 100% pro-life. I am also 100% pro-peace, pro-woman and pro-child. I am also Muslim. I do not normally comment on blogs, but I had to speak up.
Jill, I am DEEPLY offended and will not be returning to your site.
Farrah
Farrah,
I hope you will reconsider and stay. Your knowledge and perspective would be too great an asset for us to lose.
Tara: “This is what the extremists want to bring into fruition all over the world.”
I think Kung Fu Monkey said it best:
You can’t cite your enemy’s delusional hopes as a basis for a rational strategy. Goals don’t exist in a vacuum, they’re linked to capability. David Koresh was utterly committed to being Jesus Christ. See how far that got him.
Farrah, I would like you to stay.
Farrah, I too wish you would stay, but understand if you feel you can’t.
Growing up in the US I’ve grown accustomed to seeing all kinds of different faces. People from everywhere. When I taught preschool, I LOVED the fact that every child in my class came from a different country. This is America.
But I get a weird feeling, of time passing and major change taking place, when I realize that countries like Ireland and France are no longer Irish and French. It’s not a bad thing. It’s just weird, you know? Like it’s great for America, but European countries each had their own flavor. Germany was different than Spain which was different than England…and eventually we’ll all be the same. By being different.
Again, I’m not making a judgment here. Just saying it leaves me feeling sort of adrift.
Farrah,
Leaving means we’ll never get to hear the “other side”…which is what got us into this mess to begin with. Teach us. Show us.
One of the biggest problems with this faith is that the only ones who speak up about it are the ones who pervert it. I wish more “Farrah” would talk. As a Catholic Christian I’ve taken my share of name calling and abuse. But if I walked away, I’d never be able to help bridge the gap. You could do the same. This would actually be a great opportunity for you AND us. And you’d certainly have a captive audience.
Please reconsider?
Tara–your citation of Saudi Arabia is accurate. Unfortunately, Saudi Arabia is a country where women are, in fact, oppressed and the use of hijab/burqa/whatever else is involved is required and enforced. If a woman wants to wear it, that’s fine with me.
I have read about that sort of thing happening in Saudi Arabia before–that is simply awful. What a backwards and medieval thing to believe, that a rape is the woman’s fault.
I happen to work for an Egyptian coptic who had to flee Egypt because of his non islamic beliefs.I will not mention names but this guy was part of a very wealthy family. He and his family had to flee their home in order save their lifes. The islamics that believe that they have to kill all who don’t convert to islam are simply following their so called holy book the koran. Please note no capital letters here as this is a voilent religion not worthy of capital letters. I also know several missionaries to islamic countries and they often have to hide in order to worship as it is illegal to hold non islamic services. Yes if they are cought they will be arrested in most cases and who knows what next. What other religion when introduced to a country always increases violence in that country. They may say they want peace and some of the not so faithful islamics who don’t bother to read their own religiouse book may want peace. I challange anyone to read the entire koran and after doing so say islam is a religion of peace. Sad to say that some Christians give us christians a bad name. If only they would follow the Bibles principles. They might start by reading it. The problem here is not radical islam but islam.
Eric, you are a hateful, ignorant and disrespectful man. You are one of those Christians giving Christians a bad name if you truly believe that.
I accept your challenge, then. I own a Qur’an and I will read it.
If its texts are violent, you may do well to take it with a grain of salt–as you might do when reading the Bible, or any Holy Book written hundreds and hundreds of years ago.
I am just guessing, but there is probably more than one rape case prosecuted in Saudi Arabia each year. Yet what do we hear, the one most likely to get westerners all hot. I don’t know a thing about the case, so I can’t judge it. I do know that it is selective reporting. When a guy is hanged for rape in Saudi, then what have we to say?
There are millions of Muslims. Many live right here in the US. If they are so violent, why don’t we see a bunch of violence from them here? Um, well, because like every other group, most of them are normal people and only a few suffer from some mental issues that make them violent and some of those very few use religion as an excuse to express that violence. Just like the nuts is Waco who wouldn’t let the Feds into their compound. They weren’t typical.
Leah, 8:53PM
Unfortunately, the mentality that women “ask” for and are responsible for their abuse and rape is very universal. The mentality toward rape victims in our own country, despite the best efforts of the women’s movement, remains in the neanderthal era. The very tragic thing is that feminists in this country are only too willing to turn a blind eye to the sexual abuse perpetrated by politicians they support, Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton being just a few examples.
So, God ordering the jews to slaughter all of these people–
means the Bible is totally peaceful??
Mary,
I agree with you generally. In Saudi Arabia all women know not to go places without male family members. Men don’t just lure their neighbors wives and daughters into cars with them to seduce them because they know when their husbands and fathers find out, they will report them and they could very well go to jail. So the fact that some guys picked up this woman practically ensures they knew she was a prostitute. Personally, I think it is wrong for them to get a lighter sentence because she might be a prostitute. She certainly knew she could be prosecuted for going with a man or men who was not a relative. Likewise the men knew the penalty for rape so they deserve the full measure not only as penalty, but as a deterent to others who might also rape.
Bottom line, people know the consequences in the societies in which they live. The guys probably figured they would get off easy since folks would assume she was a prostitute.
Please don’t tell me there are no prostitutes, gays, etc. in Saudi Arabia.
Farrah,
Please don’t leave. My post did come off harsh although it was not my intent, and I am sorry. I don’t hate Muslims, but I am one of millions of Americans who are frustrated. But like MK said, this would be a good opportunity to talk. We only hear from those who preach hate and destruction.
It is very frustrating for those of us who are not Muslim to understand why Muslims won’t stand up and take on the radicals. Maybe it is happening and we just never hear about it. I know Muslims in my community and I’ve asked this question. The answers I’ve gotten are from it’s always been that way to being afraid of retribution. But I believe if the whole community stood up together and said, we won’t take this, it would send a clear message of not tolerating and not condoning those acts. And there would be no where for them to hide. Maybe that is niave.
In my haste to get to the hospital to see my sister who was admitted this afternoon for preeclampsia, I should have also stated that the Muslims I know are wonderful and gentle people. They work hard like all of us do to take care of our families. And I apoligize for not stating that to begin with. Note: Don’t write when distracted. I would love if we could all live side by side peacefully. And I know the answers aren’t simple. But it has to begin in the Muslim Communities and Mosques. I tell my kids that all people need to be respected. You can disagree and not like someone, but you have to respect them bc God created them too. But many people don’t see this happening in the Muslim community and that is why I beleive there is so much tension and misunderstanding.
I just mentioned two books of many that I have read. I purposely read Arab Muslim authors. Not American authors. I went into reading with an open mind. Some of the books I read were just plain hateful. Wanting to see all the Jews exterminated and Christians crushed, so I found no use for them. These two I mentioned in particular were well balanced and well thought out. They weren’t hateful or disrespectful. It was honest. So please don’t misunderstand the amount of time I’ve spent reading. I think it is very important issue.
FYI: The 1 in 4 came from the Pew Research Study in May of this year. It found that 26% of young Muslims under 30 thought that suicide bombings were okay in certain circumstances. I was actually very surprised that the number was that high.
Sorry if my spelling of the Qur’an was in correct as I was in a hurry to leave. and didn’t bother to review my comment before sending it. I would like to point out however how many Islamic nations are constantly at war and how well they treat their women… It this in their genes. I think not as the only common denominator is a book called the Qur’an. I will admit though I did come across a bit harsh and for that I am ashamed. I should have waited til I got my thoughts together before posting my comment. I have lived in France and I can tell you first hand what the problem is there if you would care to hear it. I know of no other religion that wherever it dominates you see more oppression and violence. As to why we don’t see lots Muslim violence in this country let’s see what it’s like when this minority becomes a majority as it is in nations like you see in the middle east. I don’t believe these people have it in their genes to commit these acts of violence and I will never judge a person by their race. I work for an Egyptian and he is a very kind person. I also have friends who are Arab Muslims. I just think it’s so sad that they have been led astray by a religion that seems to be at the root of over 80% of of the terrorist acts in the world these days. Please don’t get me wrong. I know that otherwise good people can be led astray.
Sorry I forgot to put my name with my last comment where I start off by “Sorry if my spelling of the Qur’an was incorrect”. You probably knew who I was though.
Tara, about that survey: I wonder how many Americans would answer in the affirmative if asked whether suicide bombing could be justified, in some circumstances, in defense of America. Given the support for war and torture we’ve seen among certain segments of the population, I would not be at all surprised to find that the number was at least 26%. Saddened, but not surprised.
Prettyinpink,
Sorry but I am new at this blog thing and I don’t want to come accross harsh so here goes. In the instances where in the Bible God tells the children of Israel to kill the entire population you need to read the context. You will find that these were the oppressors, those who would molest children, or those who wanted to destroy God’s people… God also knew what the outcome of some of these vile lifestiles would be, aids for example to name just one. I think you will find that these people were given plenty of chances to repent but they wouldn’t. There is a slight diffrence between the children of Israel and killing muslims just for converting to chritianity or outlawing christian services in your country or flying a plain in to buildings with thousands of people from many religions… With all of the suicide bombers, hostage killers, and terrorists throughout the world I can find only one common denominator. Where are they learning this? This is not just one isolated case but I find that they can almost 100% be traced back to one source. If these are just missguided indeviduals why don’t we see the same number of terrorist acts… commited by missguided indeviduals from other religiose groups? There will bee nuts in any group I know, but these numbers don’t seem to jive.
Still waiting for that definition Texasred.
What is YOUR Texasredneck definition of a fanatical fundamentalist Christian.
And also, your argument about babies in the womb not being worthy of life and describing them as tissue, non innervated, blah blbah blahblahbblah, is exactly what makes you a TexasREDneck.
It is a human being, and when a person murders that tiny human being, they get a homicide charge against them.
Now, being a dumb Texasredneck, why don’t you try your propaganda out IRL. Go kill a mother carrying a “piece of tissue”, fetus,embryo, which you contend is not human and not really “concepted” either.
You might be a Texasredneck if you murder a fetus in a mother and plead not guilty to murdering the baby in the womb.
You might be a Texasredneck appealing your verdict to the Texas Supreme Court and having the verdict make you ponder another 20 years behind bars insisting your not guilty of murdering a baby in the womb.
You might be a Texasredneck if you cannot define YOUR OWN WORDS which you use.
You might be a Texasredneck if you insult Bobby Bambino who tryed to be civil with a person who uses words, and cannot define those words in a simple sentence when asked.
You might be a Texasredneck, if asked for a defintion of three words that you wrote, you send a mind puppet( from Alabama ) to do your thinking for you named, Annonymous.
You might be a Texasredneck, if you think it is intelligent, that a person needs to go to a web site for a definition of three words that you wrote.
You might be a Texasredneck and not know your a Texasredneck.
You might be a Texasredneck WHO KNOWS, that he DOES NOT KNOW, that God might exist.
You might be a Texasredneck if you use the word Texas in your internet moniker and insult,degrade, and are obnoxious to Ab laura, Bobby Bambino and more, and think your being friendly.
You just learned that the word Texas came from the Spanish translation of a native Indian word which means FRIENDLY.
You might be a Texasredneck when you go to Six Flags Over Texas and have no idea what the park is referring to.
You might be a Texasredneck since you know a women who went to skool with David Koresh.
Only a Texasredneck would know a women who knew David Koresh.
You might be a Texasredneck since you have no idea what Texas city is named the Body Of Christ.
You might be a Texasredneck when you keep gibbering and drooling when asked to define your own words you wrote.
You might be a Texasredneck since you think the words folie a famille mean funny family.
And finally, you might be a Texasredneck if you “had a experience with my mothers ghost” and don’t think your suffering from folie a deux, with your mother to this day.
Jen,
I don’t think there are many who would say suicide bombings are exceptable, even in defending our country. The purpose for suicide bombings is to intimidate, not to defend. It is a tactic to keep people scared and under control.
Iraq (before Sadam was removed), PLO (during Arafat) and other countries have paid lots of money ($25,000 USD) to these suicide bombers’ families to go into Israel and other places and blow up school buses with children on them, markets, hotels, and resturants. Suicide bombings are aimed at Civilians not Military. The only groups here I can see that would engaged in that garbage are the KKK and those type of groups. Those groups are no different in my book then Al-Queada, Hamas or Hezbullah. They all have no respect for human life!
Well put Jen!
Eric,
Ever think that the Koran should be put in context, too?
(I know the context, but similar things are said of the Koran. Some of the passages in there telling them to kill people are oppressors.)
@PiP: Of course the Qur’an doesn’t deserve to be put into context, it’s a fake holy book of a fake religion (one that doesn’t even deserve to be capitalized out of respect! Take that christianity! Oh look! I didn’t capitalize it because I don’t respect it!)
*end sarcasm*
It would take one to know one.
Posted by: heather at November 28, 2007 4:26 PM
**********************************
Then you, of all people, would recognize him / her for being an imbecile, heather.
LOL Rae, seriously!!
Mary: It saddens and sickens me ANY time rape is blamed on a woman. I don’t care whether she’s a nun or she was wearing a miniskirt and bikini top. No one, by definition of the word, asks for rape. They may ask for attention, but it is never ever EVER a woman’s fault if a man rapes her. NEVER.
Leah, 8:19PM
I couldn’t say it better.
Jill, you are not going to tell me living here in the states we don’t know more about what goes on here than someone who has never set foot here. Surely you are not going to tell me that reading some “facts” are going to make you more of an expert on a matter than an actual witness who saw the matter unravel before their own eyes.
I don’t know if you were refering to me in your earlyer comment but I not only lived in France but was raised in France by a French mother and think that I may just know a little more than you about what goes on in France. I will eat my words if you were raised in France and spent much of your adult life in France as I did. In case you didn’t know I am just as capable of reading facts as you are. I am not out of line when I say I have seen how the Muslim population takes advantage of the French handouts. I have seen how these “poor Muslims” often drive expensive cars loaded with 10 children payed for by the French tax payer while they produce nothing in return. I know many of these people don’t hold jobs because they bragged obout it to me. I have also walked throug the streets of the Muslim neighborhoods and have seen first hand how trashed they are. I have also been threatened by these “peacefull muslims” and seen how they can’t be trusted. If anyone has reason to revolt it’s the french who are paying to send these “poor distraught peoples” numerous children to college. I never saw large groups of French people shooting up the streets over this. I will say that not all Muslims in France are this way but these exeptions are far and few between. Book knowledge pails to first hand knowledge Jill.
I have been a type one diabetic for most of my life and most diabetic specialists will admit that the diabetic knows more than they do when it comes to living with diabetes. That is unless they also are a diabetic. Let me say that I believe that all groups of people deserve equal treatment no matter whatever their nationality, skin color, religion or creed. The only point I was trying to make is that there is an overwhelming amount of violence and terrorism in this world today that can be linked to Islam. It’s not just a few radicals. Just look at this school teacher who allowed the children in her class to name a teddy bear Mohamed and is now in prison. I may be wrong here but it sounds to me like the children wanted to give the bear this name. Look at the crowds outside her prison cell wanting her put to death. I guess these are just a few radicals. Hmmm.
Nicole, Welfare here in the U.S. doesn’t compare to welfare in France. Why do you think you see so many Arab children in France. I have nothing against children but when you get payed for each child the more you have the more you make. Why work?
Prettyinpink, I absolutly agree with you on that point. What ever made you think otherwise?
Why we don’t call them “Muslim riots” in Paris suburbs
As soon as a riot starts in one of the poor suburbs around Paris, we get emails from readers and see comments on blogs accusing the media of hiding the supposedly key fact about the unrest. That fact, they tell us without providing any proof, is Islam….