It’s Jesus’ birthday, after all
Last week on The View, Barbara Walters was surprised to receive a Christmas card from President Bush with a Bible verse inside. “Does this also go to agnostics and atheists and Muslims?” Walters wondered. Here’s Walters:
What Walters received was a birthday card. Christmas is a celebration of Jesus’ birthday. I don’t recall the last time I celebrated someone’s birthday but was disallowed to mention the one being celebrated for fear of offending someone else who either wasn’t sure the person existed, didn’t believe the person existed, or didn’t like the person.
In fact, although the card shows a Christmas tree in the window, it never says, “Merry Christmas.” The theme of the verse and the particular watercolor chosen carry out the White House’s National Parks theme for the season, which gives glory to God for creation.
The White House mixed all that into one card, for which I give it lots of credit for savvy.
We also received that Christmas card. Note the RNC paid for the card, and it was postmarked from Crawford, TX. I am so fed up with stupid people who think they’re so smart, with intolerant people who consider themselves so tolerant, with mean-spirited people who think they are just the opposite. Here is that card close up (view on page 2)….
UPDATE, 1:10p: Read “release [of] some atheist angst” over my post at The Huntress’ Domain.
Dec.20, 2007 8:27 am |
Pop Culture |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
OH NO!!!! How could someone fathom the SHEER AUDACITY do that????? THE NERVE!!!! On the CHRISTMAS Season -oops, I mean the “holiday season”, how could someone possibly think to send a RELIGIOUS card? Oh the AUDACIOUSNESS!
Can you even imagine how someone could be so INSENSITIVE as to celebrate their own holiday, publicly!!?
Unless, of course, we are talking about ANY other holiday except Christmas. ;-)
“…with intolerant people who consider themselves so tolerant”
Jill that is the TRUTH!
Bethany-
How DARE you say the “C” word!!!! You know you can’t celebrate or even talk about YOUR holiday publicly..you might hurt other people’s “feelings!”
Remember, it was not only Jesus who died for our sins. It was Jesus who “told” our president to bomb Iraq. This is the same Jesus that told Mike “I love rape” Huckabee to run for president. What I’m trying to say is this. The card is PERFECT.
Who Would Jesus Bomb?
How DARE you say the “C” word!!!! You know you can’t celebrate or even talk about YOUR holiday publicly..you might hurt other people’s “feelings!”
Oh I am so sorry, Elizabeth…I knew it was sooo wrong at the moment I said it, but that horrible C word just slipped out of my mouth. I think I might need to turn myself in to the Politically Correct authorities. :-D
One of my friends posted this on my blog the other day and I thought it would be perfect here:
To My Democrat Friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all.
I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2007, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere . Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee.
By accepting these greetings, you are accepting the aforementioned terms as stated. This greeting is not subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for herself/himself/others, and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher.
This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.
To My Republican Friends:
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
*sigh*
On your side with this one, ladies. I see nothing inherently offensive about the card that anyone should be up in arms over…I think it’s really rather a beautiful card sent with utmost well wishes. *snorts over what Barbara Walters thinks*
I can’t understand why she can’t just be happy that she was sent a Christmas card with well wishes and holiday cheer? Why’d she even have to bring it up on television?
A commenter on Youtube explains how Barbara is wrong about there never having been verses on the cards before:
************************************************8
“When first we practice to deceive…
Christmas cards that she seems not to remember:
2001 – Pslam 27:8, 13
2002 – Psalm 100:5
2003 – Job 10:12
2004 – Psalm 95:2
2005 – Pslam 28:7
2006 – Psalm 119:105
Google them!”
Here is the 2001 card, just in case anyone’s interested:
Thanks, Lyssie…it’s good to know you understand. :)
Lyssie, 9:07am
Excellent point. Can any of these ladies say “class”, something all of them, especially Barbara, are sadly lacking in.
When people think enough of you to send a card or gift, shouldn’t you have enough grace to appreciate the person’s thought and effort, say thank you, and keep any snide opinions to yourself?
If you don’t then spare the rest of us a display of your appalling ignorance.
All Creation….even if we bomb them over and over
Bethany, she probably wasn’t on the “Christmas Card list” those years! ;)
Anyway, she’s probably referring to the lack of Biblical versus on the previous president’s cards. His must have said something like the “Merry Christmas to my Democrat Friends” you posted above. BTW, I loved that and have forwarded it to all my friends – well at least the Republican ones, the Dems would be offended. ;)
PeachPit said: “Remember, it was not only Jesus who died for our sins.”
Right, he also rose from the dead on the third day and is responsible for your personal salvation, even if you choose to mock him.
PeachPit said: “It was Jesus who “told” our president to bomb Iraq.”
Yep, according to no less an unimpeachable source than the Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas. That’s like asking Mussolini what FDR thought about WWII.
PeachPit said: “This is the same Jesus that told Mike “I love rape” Huckabee to run for president.”
Yes, because being in favor of parole for seemingly reformed criminals amounts to supporting their crimes. And also, when Christians talk about God telling them stuff, of course they mean they hear some mysterious voice in their head that tells them to do crazy stuff. That’s just the way those wacky Christians are, right? It’s definitely not intolerant to characterize Christian prayer and reflection in that manner.
PeachPit said: “What I’m trying to say is this. The card is PERFECT.”
You might want to think about repenting. It would probably be a good idea.
PeachPit said: “Who Would Jesus Bomb?”
Sodom and Gomorrah.
Jesus said: “Whatever town you enter and they welcome you, eat what is set before you, cure the sick in it and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God is at hand for you.’ Whatever town you enter and they do not receive you, go out into the streets and say, ‘The dust of your town that clings to our feet, even that we shake off against you.’ Yet know this: the kingdom of God is at hand. I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom on that day than for that town.”
In a nutshell:
Christian response to being wished a “Happy Hanukkah”, “Happy Kwanzaa”, etc = “Thank you”
Secularist response to being wished a “Merry Christmas” = “I’m offended!!!”
PeachPit said: “Who Would Jesus Bomb?”
Sodom and Gomorrah.
Posted by: John Lewandowski at December 20, 2007 9:26 AM
LOL!
John, I have to say, that is good. Sorry, Rev. John.
I like how you followed the phrase “Who would Jesus Bomb?” I didn’t see anything in there about sending a cruise missle anywhere….
I’m sure you could use that explanation to the parents of the woman who was raped and killed 10 minutes from my house. Huckabee thought he was reformed!
You are right. It was through prayer and jesus that our president decided to snort coke and bomb muslim babies.
I’m just so tired of GWB.
hehe glad you liked it, Kristen!
Great job answering peachpit, John!
I like how you followed the phrase “Who would Jesus Bomb?” I didn’t see anything in there about sending a cruise missle anywhere….
God doesn’t need a cruise missle.
You are right. It can be done with Tomahawks and good old fashioned gun fights.
Do you actually have a point?
I think the card is very pretty.
We’ll see if Barbara Walters gets one NEXT year.
If you are referring to me, yes, I do have a point. Jesus has infiltrated (military term) our government and his “helping” our country make really poor decisions…….So in my personal opinion, It is a joke for our president who won’t even admit to his own mistakes to even mention Jesus anymore. GWB is mocking Jesus.
I definitely don’t think religious views should impact government or public policy, but good grief – I have no problems with Christmas cards or Bible verses.
I think it’s a bunch of largely useless hand-wringing, whether it’s over Christmas cards or T-shirts.
Doug
Peach Pit, do you think that Obama makes a mockery of Christ? Just curious. I don’t know your stance on other things and would like to know what your position is on Obama.
My brother-in law’s family is Catholic, and three or four years ago all us adults (yes, I even include myself in there) were sitting around having some wine, and into the room come the two sons.
I don’t know what we had been discussing, but perhaps it led to a question that was posed to the two kids. “What is Christmas?”
Carlo, aged about 7, said, “Christmas is Jesus’s birthday.”
Frankie, 5 or so, replied, “Christmas is a time of giving.”
Smiles were on everybody’s face, and it was a good moment.
Doug
That is very sweet.
I don’t care when people tell me Merry Christmas. Heck, I don’t believe the whole “reason for the season” and so forth(plus, baby Jesus, if he existed, was more likely born around March), but to be honest, I don’t find “Christmas” to be quite so much a religious holiday. To me, more than anything, it means awesome food(I am already gaining weight from all these dang cookies), exchanging gifts, and being able to spend time with people you care about. Also, it’s the winter solstice. It’s cold and gets dark super early and it’s a perfect time to be able to just relax, have cocoa, start a fire, and read a book. I don’t believe in God- but I still tell people Merry Christmas.
“I don’t recall the last time I celebrated someone’s birthday but was disallowed to mention the one being celebrated for fear of offending someone else”
I know. The absurdity.
Btw: I spent some time in the far east (Taiwan, Korea, Japan, Hong Kong) during my working career. Sometimes it was months at a time. I wasn’t offended because they had Budda displayed everywhere, because I knew it was part of their culture. I think this goes further than the so called separation or church and state. I believe there is an anti-christian bias going on. The PC police are everywhere now.
Erin,
do you put up a Christmas Tree and actually celebrate Christmas? The reason why I ask is because I know some Hindus (Indian) and Buddists (Chinese) people I work with that do, I never understood why they do this if they’re not Christians.
That is a nice story, Doug.
(plus, baby Jesus, if he existed, was more likely born around March),
Posted by: Erin at December 20, 2007 10:00 AM
How do you figure Erin? I mean I know that December 25th came about as the celebratory date in a round about way but I never heard anything about how it was likely around March. Just curious.
I don’t mind Christmas, and some years I even get a tree. (never had one in the home as a kid) I agree with Erin, it’s a time to hang out with friends and family and exchange some gifts. It’s WAY over hyped, but I just check out a bit and try to enjoy it on a more reasonable scale.
Maybe we should just switch to Festivus
jasper- a lot of Christmas holiday traditions have become more like social traditions. A Christmas ‘tree’ for example is an old pagan symbol, not really a Christian one. Lots of things like putting up lights and a tree are simply because it’s nice to have an excuse to celebrate. I don’t think that I need the birth of a savior to justify a holiday where I give presents to my friends and family, get a week off, and eat cookies. A winter holiday season has become as much a social institution as a religious one. People just need and excuse to celebrate sometimes.
As for me, my family is largely Christian. I go to church on Christmas for their sake.
(Oh, and Bethany? One of PeachPit’s stances is that every woman who has ever had an abortion should be put to death or given life in prison. Classy, eh?)
What is the difference between putting an abortion doctor or one of the women in jail? or life? Erin?
As for Obama mocking Jesus. I have no idea. I have not gotten the chance to see him in action as President. As of right now, I don’t care what he does. He is not on my dime.
Bethany, 9:09a: Good research!
Ah, I know I’ve heard it in a bunch of places. Something about stuff in the bible and historical accuracy and astronomy, blah blah blah. Lemme find a link.
Geh, there’s so many different theories. One says it can’t be winter time because the shepherds wouldn’t be out in the fields because it’d be too bloody cold. Hrm…bah. I know I’ve heard march plenty, can’t find a source. Oh well. What is known is that Christmas is a hijacking of Saturnalia, a pagan sun god festival, and the date was chosen to make it easier for pagans to make the switch.
Yeah…there’s dozens of opinions on when Jesus was actually born, though there’s a bit of controversy if he was at all at this point.
“In what month and on what day of the month was he born?
Not one of his biographers is prepared to tell; primitive Christians did not know; the church has never been able to determine this. A hundred different opinions regarding it have been expressed by Christian scholars. Wagenseil places it in February, Paulius in March, Greswell in April, Lichtenstein in June, Strong in August, Lightfoot in September, and Newcome in October. Clinton says that he was born in the spring, Larchur says that he was born in the fall. Some early Christians believed that it occurred on the 5th of January; others the 19th of April; others still on the 20th of May. The Eastern church believed that he was born on the 7th of January. The church of Rome, in the fourth century, selected the 25th of December on which to celebrate the anniversary of his birth; and this date has been accepted by the greater portion of the Christian world. ”
I put up a Christmas tree, and I am not Christian Jasper. I dont go to church on Christmas Eve anymrore though. My mother stoped forcing me four years ago.
Yea, I was just looking and I found May 14th as a date. Doesn’t really matter. Just interesting. Thanks.
Actually, the decorated tree is an old Pagan custom to celebrate Solstice.
Christians are EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN in the Bible from engaging in the Pagan custom, and no good Christian would have one in their home:
Jeremiah 10:2-4: “Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.” (KJV).
Erin, Midnite,
thanks for the response, I just find it strange that some athiests or agnostics celebrate something they totally reject. I mean, I don’t celebrate Muslim, Buddist or Hindu holidays, I don’t believe in it. Maybe it’s just me.
Oh, for gosh sakes Laura. You’ve brought that up about a hundred times. It’s not Dogma for cryin’ out loud. They stoned people in the Old Testament too, should we still? Give it a rest; we can have a Christmas Tree.
Uh, Peach Pit, are you French?
It’s amusing having a surrender monkey posting at a pro life board.
Oh, wait are you a atheist pagan practicioner of life who sum up life as what goes around comes around.
See, that explains what happen to those Taliban characters when those tomahawks rained down on them by the Christian president named William Clinton.
Oh, for gosh sakes Laura. You’ve brought that up about a hundred times. It’s not Dogma for cryin’ out loud. They stoned people in the Old Testament too, should we still? Give it a rest; we can have a Christmas Tree.
Posted by: Kristen at December 20, 2007 10:42 AM
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Fine! Why don’t you trace a pentagram in menstrual blood and sacrifice a goat while you’re at it!
I’m sorry that you hate Little Baby Jesus…
jasper- it’s ’cause it’s fun!
They cannot locate the exact day of his birth because it may of not ever happened.
Maybe we should just switch to Festivus
I’ll get my Festivus pole!
Laura, LOL! Now THAT was funny!
Yilas – I’m all for the Taliban going down. All of those folks that think we are a cut and run crowd don’t realize we still think we should be in Afghanistan.
Did you guys here? We found Bin Laden, you know, the guy that killed 3,000?
Laura, you’re taking that verse out of it’s context. On it’s own, it does very much sound like it’s talking about a Christmas tree, but if you will read the surrounding passage, you will understand that it is not. Of course, I know you have no real interest in that…just wanted to clarify for those who may actually be intrigued by what you posted.
Erm…I don’t think we found Bin Laden. I think it’d be on the news.
thanks for the response, I just find it strange that some athiests or agnostics celebrate something they totally reject. I mean, I don’t celebrate Muslim, Buddist or Hindu holidays, I don’t believe in it. Maybe it’s just me.
Jasper,
I celebrate Christmas b/c (1)I was raised in the Presbyterian Church (USA), & (2)I consider it a time to spend time with my fanily, friends and loved ones. I give gifts to show how much they mean to me.
Unfortunately, Christmas is not “as religous” as it used to be. Kids (most) are not excited that it is (or was made) Jesus’ birthday. They are thrilled b/c Santa is coming to visit them (if they’ve been good) and to get a lot of toys they dont need.
Erin, actually these two guys found Osama… :-D
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/141790/bin_ladens_found_on_google_earth/
Behtany:
Deary, I think that is a fake video. Who records themselves when they are doing something that they shouldnt be doing…
(besides Paris Hilton)
I thought it was funny. :D
Oh it is funny, but I dont think it is real.
Of course not! LOL It’s just a funny skit. It seemed relevant to the discussion. :D
I giggled ^_^
Peach Pit. As for Bin Laden, a pirate who hides in a cave ain’t much of a leader of men. Kinda like Arafat, a cowardly lion. But, tell me, what do you think of that Christian president named Bill Clinton throwing tomahawks around inside of Sudan and being fearful he might kill a friendly prince, which led to missing OBL?
BTW, can you tell me a name of a Christian missile? I know of the Atlas missile, Thor,Jupiter,Titan1,2,3,, Poseidon, Polaris,Trident, Honest John, Genie, Super Genie, Nike Ajax,Nike Hercules,Phoenix, even the Irish get in on names for missiles, the Shillelagh.
Maybe those missiles are just atheist pagan missiles invented by Erin and you Peach fuzz.
Or would it be more accurate to scapegoat those Greek gods for war?
“Jeremiah 10:2-4: “Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.” (KJV).”
Laura-
You’ve brought that up before, so I looked it up. The verse, if read in other translations or in increased context, is clearly about fashioning idols of out of wood, gold, and silver. In the NIV, verse 3 reads “a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.” In the NAS it reads “Because it is wood cut from the forest, the work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool.” It has nothing to do with Christmas trees.
yllas- I’m yet to see an awe-inspiring planet or star be named Jesus ;-)
Quick Clinton reference. There you go, assuming I liked him. Nice try.
The fact of the matter is this. They still haven’t found him. If this admin was so bent on stopping terrorism they would of started when they went into office, not when we got attacked.
This chickenhawk administration uses Jesus whenever they can.They won the 04 election on religion. They say Jesus told them to go to war. What has religion received in the last 8 years? National Prayer Day. Wow. Way to go. Abortion isn’t outlawed. There isn’t a gay marriage amendment. Christians around the country have been used by this president/admin. That is why this trite xmas card is such a joke.
Seems rather tacky to me for the leader of a diverse country to send out a greeting card that doesn’t represent the country as a whole. He isn’t being paid to represent only Christians. That he doesn’t seem to understand that, is quite telling.
Jasper? Does the fact that I have a collection of Santas make you think that I believe there is an actual Santa?
Sally,
You contradict yourself. How can the leader of a “diverse country” send out anything that represents the country as a whole?
Actually that Christmas card bible verse could apply to people of the Jewish faith as well, being it is Old Testament.
Lord does not necessarily mean Jesus Christ. I’m not certain but I think Muslims also believe in the Old Testament. Since this verse refers to one Supreme Being, it may apply to a variety of faiths.
Also, even the President of the United States, like all the rest of us, has every right to his religious beliefs and to practice them as he sees fit. He has as much right to send a Christmas card in accordance to his religious beliefs, as you have to own a collection of Santas.
Me thinks it’s the word “birth” in birthday that makes the “tolerant” i.e., Artemis et al, get their undies in a bunch!!
Sally,
Also, if anything is “tacky” its Barbara Walters and her complete lack of class in not just graciously accepting the Christmas card.
Sally,
You contradict yourself. How can the leader of a “diverse country” send out anything that represents the country as a whole?
Actually that Christmas card bible verse could apply to people of the Jewish faith as well, being it is Old Testament.
Lord does not necessarily mean Jesus Christ. I’m not certain but I think Muslims also believe in the Old Testament. Since this verse refers to one Supreme Being, it may apply to a variety of faiths.
Also, even the President of the United States, like all the rest of us, has every right to his religious beliefs and to practice them as he sees fit. He has as much right to send a Christmas card in accordance to his religious beliefs, as you have to own a collection of Santas.
Posted by: Mary at December 20, 2007 3:15 PM
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Mary,
You’ve missed the point.
A simple Seasons Greetings seems sufficient. Obviously Christmas isn’t about the Old Testament to Christians. Even some Christians find the celebration of Christmas to be disrespectful to their faith. Who might believe in the Old Testament is redundant.
The President’s religious rights are not in question. His respect for the beliefs or lack of beliefs of the nation as a whole are in question.
Sally,
Also, if anything is “tacky” its Barbara Walters and her complete lack of class in not just graciously accepting the Christmas card.
Posted by: Mary at December 20, 2007 3:33 PM
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That’s silly. Her show is one of discussion. She posed and interesting question for discussion. If you find that tacky, then it is equally tacky to pose the same question on this board. You obviously think that Jill is tacky.
Sally,
Exactly what are the beliefs or lack of beliefs of the nation as a whole? Some might consider a “season’s greetings” card disrespectful. He sent a card in accordance to his beliefs. I have no issue with that. He used a verse that applied to his beliefs and the beliefs of a variety of Americans. It praised a Supreme Being. I don’t analyze every Christmas card I receive or send out. I appreciate the cards sent to me and the spirit they are sent in. I hope people I send cards to view it the same way.
Also, when one thinks enough of you to send a card or gift, you don’t get into a group or public discussion about it ridiculing the gift, card, or sender, or calling into question what they sent you. I don’t find a religious Christmas card something worthy of much discussion myself, and these ladies made that obvious.
You graciously accept the gift or card, thank the person, and leave it at that. Believe me, if I could thank my aunt(may she rest in peace) for that ghastly fruitcake she sent every year, then Barbara Walters can graciously accept a religious Christmas card.
The President and Mrs. Bush sent the card from themselves. Again, they are Christians and hence celebrate CHRISTMAS. Can’t they send a card?
The President and Mrs. Bush sent the card from themselves.
Posted by: Kristen at December 20, 2007 4:28 PM
Add: Not from all the American people…
ally,
Exactly what are the beliefs or lack of beliefs of the nation as a whole? Some might consider a “season’s greetings” card disrespectful. He sent a card in accordance to his beliefs. I have no issue with that. He used a verse that applied to his beliefs and the beliefs of a variety of Americans. It praised a Supreme Being. I don’t analyze every Christmas card I receive or send out. I appreciate the cards sent to me and the spirit they are sent in. I hope people I send cards to view it the same way.
Also, when one thinks enough of you to send a card or gift, you don’t get into a group or public discussion about it ridiculing the gift, card, or sender, or calling into question what they sent you. I don’t find a religious Christmas card something worthy of much discussion myself, and these ladies made that obvious.
You graciously accept the gift or card, thank the person, and leave it at that. Believe me, if I could thank my aunt(may she rest in peace) for that ghastly fruitcake she sent every year, then Barbara Walters can graciously accept a religious Christmas card.
Posted by: Mary at December 20, 2007 4:02 PM
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Mary,
The beliefs of a diverse nation would be just that. Diverse. If you don’t find the question posed by Barbara to be of interest, why are you discussing it?
Did you watch the clip? Barbara was not ridiculing the card. She posed a question about it. This is what she is famous for you know. Posing questions. Sometimes those question have been uncomfortable for the person addressed to answer.
I appreciate cards that express a personal sentiment that addresses me. Not believing in creationism, I would find the sentiment in this card to address the sender rather than the recipient making the card a thoughtless gesture. Rather like giving a person a gift that you would want rather than graciously considering what the recipient would actually enjoy.
The President and Mrs. Bush sent the card from themselves. Again, they are Christians and hence celebrate CHRISTMAS. Can’t they send a card?
Posted by: Kristen at December 20, 2007 4:28 PM
………………………..
Who said that they couldn’t?
Sally,
One of the features of a diverse nation is tolerance and respect for people’s religious beliefs, however much we may disagree with them.
Yes I watched the clip. I didn’t find it interesting, I found it tacky. But then I have often found Barbara Walters tacky. Why should she care what kind of card Bush sends to atheists, agnostics, or Muslims? Who cares what kind of card I send my Jewish brother-in-law and my agnostic sister? And why would a religious Christmas card be so unthinkable? Barbara Walters is Jewish and the Old Testament certainly applies to the Jewish faith.
Its not always possible to know the exact sentiment of every person you send a card to. I don’t know everyone’s beliefs and I don’t care. I send a card with good intentions. If people are offended, well so be it. None of us will go through life not being offended. I appreciate a card of any kind and the fact someone was thoughtful enough to send it.
I still maintain that when someone sends you a card or gift, you have the grace to say thank you and leave it at that.
…and that applies to ghastly fruitcake as well!
Sally: “Jasper? Does the fact that I have a collection of Santas make you think that I believe there is an actual Santa?”
No, but it may lead me to believe that you believe in Jesus.
again, the offense taken at The Christmas cards and Christmas in general is about anti-Christian Bias or the hatred of Christas (Christ) in general.
Sally: “Jasper? Does the fact that I have a collection of Santas make you think that I believe there is an actual Santa?”
No, but it may lead me to believe that you believe in Jesus.
again, the offense taken at The Christmas cards and Christmas in general is about anti-Christian Bias or the hatred of Christas (Christ) in general.
Posted by: jasper at December 20, 2007 6:16 PM
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What would Santa have to do with Jesus Jasper? I also collect reindeer and display them during the holiday season. Would that lead you to believe that I worship reindeer?
Sally,
One of the features of a diverse nation is tolerance and respect for people’s religious beliefs, however much we may disagree with them.
Yes I watched the clip. I didn’t find it interesting, I found it tacky. But then I have often found Barbara Walters tacky. Why should she care what kind of card Bush sends to atheists, agnostics, or Muslims? Who cares what kind of card I send my Jewish brother-in-law and my agnostic sister? And why would a religious Christmas card be so unthinkable? Barbara Walters is Jewish and the Old Testament certainly applies to the Jewish faith.
Its not always possible to know the exact sentiment of every person you send a card to. I don’t know everyone’s beliefs and I don’t care. I send a card with good intentions. If people are offended, well so be it. None of us will go through life not being offended. I appreciate a card of any kind and the fact someone was thoughtful enough to send it.
I still maintain that when someone sends you a card or gift, you have the grace to say thank you and leave it at that.
Posted by: Mary at December 20, 2007 5:55 PM
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I maintain that it is thoughtless and tactless to send out greetings that do not apply to the recipient. I expect more of my president. You clearly don’t and that’s just fine with me.
…and that applies to ghastly fruitcake as well!
Posted by: Mary at December 20, 2007 6:14 PM
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Are you one of those that pass on unwanted gifts to others?
Sally,
Barbara Walters is Jewish and the Old Testament applies to the Jewish faith. It would seem the president made every effort to accomodate and respect what would likely be her beliefs.
No I never subject any poor soul to my unwanted gifts. Those fruitcakes made great doorstops.
Heh, my mom always has my dad regift things that she gets from her 4th Grade kids. She gives them to him after she gets them and he gives them to the people that work for him.
What would Santa have to do with Jesus Jasper?
Posted by: Sally at December 20, 2007 6:49 PM
Gee, I wonder…
What would Santa have to do with Jesus Jasper?
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Sally,
Below is what I’m teaching my 6-year old about Christmas, but I think it can apply to adults as well:
http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/Xmas/meaning.htm
*snickers* How about a woodland Critter Christmas?
Sally,
Barbara Walters is Jewish and the Old Testament applies to the Jewish faith. It would seem the president made every effort to accomodate and respect what would likely be her beliefs.
No I never subject any poor soul to my unwanted gifts. Those fruitcakes made great doorstops.
Posted by: Mary at December 20, 2007 7:06 PM
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LOL Is there such a thing as an edible fruit cake I wonder?
I don’t think the pres put any effort in accommodating anyone’s beliefs beyond his own. Not much of a public servant in my opinion.
What would Santa have to do with Jesus Jasper?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~““`
Sally,
Below is what I’m teaching my 6-year old about Christmas, but I think it can apply to adults as well:
http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/Xmas/meaning.htm
Posted by: jasper at December 20, 2007 7:56 PM
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Why teach the truth when lies will suffice?
PeachPit said: “As for Obama mocking Jesus. I have no idea. I have not gotten the chance to see him in action as President. As of right now, I don’t care what he does. He is not on my dime.”
So President Bush is on your dime, but US SENATOR Obama is not? Somebody explain basic civics to this guy, please.
Sally,
I’ll have to agree there is no edible fruitcake, at least in my opinion. I think they’re all repulsive.
I must disagree about the president. I think he did show respect to Barbara Walter’s Jewish faith. He undoubtedly sends out cards by the hundreds and I think the president made an attempt to be as accomodating to as many religious perspectives as possible.
Santa has plenty to do with Jesus… if you’re a Catholic. “Santa Claus”, aka Nicholas of Myrna, aka St. Nicholas, is one of God’s saints in Heaven.
St. Nicholas should be spoken highly of on a site like this, since he protected young women from being sold into sex slavery.
The thing that “offends” me about this card is the fact that they even SENT it to Barbara Walters…
WHO CARES what she does or doesn’t think about it?
Sally,
I’ll have to agree there is no edible fruitcake, at least in my opinion. I think they’re all repulsive.
I must disagree about the president. I think he did show respect to Barbara Walter’s Jewish faith. He undoubtedly sends out cards by the hundreds and I think the president made an attempt to be as accomodating to as many religious perspectives as possible.
Posted by: Mary at December 20, 2007 9:46 PM
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Well Mary, I think that someone should formulate an edible fruit cake and the Pres should have exhibited the ability to accommodate a great deal more than he seems capable of doing.
Hmmmmmm. Edible fruit cake. I wonder……….
I still maintain that when someone sends you a card or gift, you have the grace to say thank you and leave it at that.
Mary – agreed wholeheartedly. Good grief – are there not more pressing things to get worked up about, no matter who you are?
On fruitcakes – in 1998 I worked in Jamaica, and there they call it “Spiced Bun” – I had some which were good, no foolin’
Doug
I made a fruitcake this year… my husband said it looked like carpet padding, but it tasted good. For a fruitcake!
Mike,
Good point. I consider that woman offensive. I had a friend in school years ago who could do a fantastic impression of Walters asking someone about their sex life. She’s have you in hysterics.
Doug,
Thank you for the support, I appreciate it. I’m convinced there are people who dedicate their lives to being offended as much and as often as possible. I’m thankful I have a life and am able to concern myself with far more important things than what was on a Christmas card.
Could there have been some Jamaican Rum in that fruitcake? Then you wouldn’t have cared how it tasted.
Bethany,
Your fruitcake is indeed a work of art. The carpet padding remark sounds like something my husband would say.
However, my opinion of fruitcakes will forever remain unchanged.
There’s an hilarious commercial out about a couple who tried to unload a fruitcake, it makes the rounds to various people until the postman gets it, and he drops it back on their doorstep as a “gift”.
Haha I’ve seen that commercial, Mary! It’s funny. Nobody I know (besides myself and my mom) like fruitcake. lol
Mary: I’m thankful I have a life and am able to concern myself with far more important things than what was on a Christmas card.
Yeah – must have been a slow day for news or something….
……
Could there have been some Jamaican Rum in that fruitcake? Then you wouldn’t have cared how it tasted.
No, but you know – I do love a good rum cake. Probably just about the worst thing in the world from a carbohydrate standpoint, but still….
Doug,
I’be heard of rum cake but never tried it. I’m a Christmas cookie person myself. Talk about a carbohydrate standpoint. I bake a pile of them and let my kids decorate and eat them. They’re adults but I love tradition and they love cookies. Trouble is I do too.
The folks at work are forever bringing in treats as well. I can usually roll out the door by the end of the season.
Ugh, I finally go home tonight after my last exam, and my mom and I are scheduled to bake nut tossies together….seeing as how I’m going to the bahamas in a week (first family vacation in over a decade), AND I HAVE TO WEAR A BATHING SUIT, I’m kind of apprehensive about the giant Christmas feast planned. Cookies and mountains of my family’s excellent cooking. AND I tried on my bathing suits this morning to figure out which ones to pack. It ain’t lookin’ good, let me tell ya…
Lyssie,
That sounds like great fun. Have a great and safe trip as well as a happy holiday season. You’ll love the Bahamas. I stayed at the Atlantis a few years ago for a convention. A little too big for my taste but my son and his friend loved it. From your picture, it doesn’t look like you’ll have too much work to do to get in shape.
Now I have to run and mail my cards which I finally finished. Plus drop off some gifts at work, plus…….. I better get running!
Bethany, Mary is right – a work of art is that fruitcake, and it really does look good. Moist and chock-full of chewy fruit and loaded with nuts.
I’m a big baker, and my cookies are the best in the world. Not kidding.
I’m amazed how most kids don’t like nuts in cookies until they get older.
One of my favorites is to start with the Toll House recipe (normal chocolate-chip cookies). No chocolate involved, though, but rather chop up a lot of nuts, like 5 to 10 times the amount called for, chop them up fine down to where some of it is “dust.”
It makes for cookies that can be a bit soggy from the oil in the nuts, but the taste is awesome.
Or, the same Toll House recipe (like on the Nestle’s chocolate chip package), again leaving out chocolate, using all the vanilla and adding 2 or 3 times that much walnut extract/flavoring and then adding walnuts.
Or – keep the walnuts and use maple flavoring.
If chocolate is wanted then I’ll go with the standard recipe or use peanut-butter flavored chips (that’s a big hit with my in-laws) or go with maybe 1/3 white chocolate chips for variation.
Or load them up with pecans, almonds, cashews, etc, for a change of pace.
With all of these, rather than just use all white flour, I put in half whole wheat flour – it absorbs more water and adds some fiber.
I don’t like burned cookies, so I keep adding flour until the dough is really stiff – it’s a workout stirring it. Stiff enough and it will then form into round balls to go on the baking sheet (no dropping off a spoon for me).
The stiff dough doesn’t spread out and flatten too much, and you get moist cookies, perfectly done IMO.
Come on, people – give me some awesome baking ideas for this holiday season.
:: bake :: bake :: bake ::
I’ve gotta bake.