Killing without consequences
I received a call this afternoon from Eileen Smith, mother of Laura Hope Smith, who was killed by abortionist Rapin Osathanondh at Women’s Health Center, 68 Camp St., Hyannis, MA, on September 13, 2007.
Laura was 22 years old and 13 weeks pregnant. Her fiance, a soldier stationed in Iraq, left to her the “choice” whether their baby lived or died. Laura sadly chose death.
Osathanondh, still in business, operates a one-man mill. He’s the only medical professional on his premises with two sidekicks, a receptionist and a patient “hand holder”.
Incredibly, Osathanondh to this day administers general anesthesia by himself and then commits the abortion by himself. There is apparently no MA law against this.
Laura died on Osathanondh’s table. Details are unknown, but her toxicology report came back normal. Apparently, the anesthesia simply overcame her. Osathanondh may or may not have been in the room at the time. When he found her or realized she wasn’t breathing, he yelled for his receptionist to call 911, but she had already left for the day. So the hand holder called. I think she was confused and thought she was ordering a pizza. Hear for yourself….
Audio of 911 call
Transcript of 911 call:
Hyannis Dispatcher: 911. What’s the location of the emergency?
Caller: I’m at 68 Camp Street. I’m here at the Women’s Health Center.
Hyannis Dispatcher: The Women’s Heath Center?
Caller: Yes, at 68 Camp Street, Hyannis.
Hyannis Dispatcher: Okay, and what’s going on there?
Caller: Uh, well, this girl aspirated. She’s not breathing.
Hyannis Dispatcher: Okay. What’s your name?
Caller: Kim.
Hyannis Dispatcher: Kim, what’s your phone number.
Caller: It’s 508-775-7088.
Hyannis Dispatcher: 7088. I’ll have rescue right there.
Caller: Thanks.
EMTs reported Laura was DOA. They administered CPR at the mill, in the ambulance, and for an hour at the hospital. Osathanondh later met with Eileen and said he would have accompanied Laura in the ambulance, but he had another abortion waiting who had driven a long way.
Eileen lived in FL until September 13. She is now camped in Hyannis and says she will not leave until Osathanondh is shut down and arrested.
That may be a problem.
The Public Health Department says clinic regulations don’t apply to Osathanondh because he doesn’t operate a clinic, just a doctor’s office. The Health Department was unaware of physician’s office guidelines.
The DA is waiting for the results of a second opinion autopsy report to determine whether a crime was committed. Had Osathanondh killed a dog in his office, a crime would certainly have been committed. But this was an abortion. Osathanondh may have committed no arrestable offense.
The state medical board could take Osathanondh’s license away, but it is still gathering information. Meanwhile, he aborts.
Laura was a confessed Christian. Of course Jesus hated what Laura did on September 13, but He hates the daily, minute-by-minute sins we all commit.
Eileen read to me Laura’s last journal entry, which expressed fear she was pregnant but counted on help from God, saying, “Jesus, you’ve always had my back.”
I pray for swift justice.
Eileen and her husband adopted Laura from an abusive home when she was 5. Read Eileen’s account of that process below.
The Laura Hope Smith Story
May 25, 1985 – September 13, 2007
by Eileen Smith, her mother
Laura, a Mayan Indian born into poverty in San Pedro, Honduras was a survivor. This may be a strange opening sentence to describe the daughter I just buried, but read on and you will understand.
A US/Honduran adoption agent told me it was the custom of the poor Mayan natives, when their infants became sick with life threatening illnesses to abandon them at a local hospital. Not out of indifference but out of love and a hope of a better life for them. The parents knew that they would be sent to the orphanage and adopted out of poverty and out of the country.
Laura’s abandonment to the hospital happened when she was only 11 months old. When she was well enough, she was sent to the orphanage to join the other orphans. Her earliest memory in life was of the orphanage which she confused with home and the matron, whom she thought was her mother.
An American Dr. was at the orphanage picking up his 3rd adopted child while his wife waited at home. When he saw 2 yr old Laura there, he wanted to adopt her also. Even at that young age she must have been so engaging to draw his attention over all the others. Six months later she was part of their family. But they were not to live happily ever after. The mother, seeing Laura for the first time upon her arrival in the US, never bonded with her. There were many reasons she said, and none of them made sense. Her skin was too dark, she pulled out her own hair, the list went on. The neglect and abuse started shortly thereafter.
Laura first came to our house at age 4-1/2 with a black eye and black and blue marks on her body. Her parents gave her away to me and Laura agreed to go after knowing me only 20 minutes. I had driven to their house in PA from MA after a request by the parents was made over the phone. Laura was only in my home 2 weeks when they called, they were sorry, they changed their mind. They wanted her back. I was happy for Laura. I thought they realized the error of their ways, they said they would get help and things would get better for Laura. They didn’t.
Six months later they called me. “It didn’t work out. Please take her“. I did. Two weeks later, “give her back” I had to. They had all the legal rights, I had none. They kept agreeing to release their parental rights in court so I could adopt her, they never followed thru. I continued talking to them only to keep contact with Laura. I now feared for her safety and sanity.
Six months passed again, the parents brought her back to me for a third time making more false promises.. Shortly after that, the familiar phone call came. The parents threatened to take her away, to give her to someone else if I didn’t put her on the phone immediately. I hung up on them. I cried out to God to do something and He answered. He impressed on me to call the US/Honduran adoption agent whose office was in PA. When I did, the agent was so grateful. They heard that they gave her away. They had been begging the parents for my name and number, the parents refused to give it them. We compared stories of abuse, the agent called the authorities in PA and reported them.
The agents lawyer advised me to go to court here. I arrived at the Probate Court office the next day with no child, no birth certificate, no money and a wild story. They listened intently, filed the case, waived the fees and sent me to the court room. The judge gave me temporary custody. God told me the name of the lawyer sitting next to me. She followed me out of the court room and volunteered to be Laura’s advocate. Laura never left our home from that day on. She was 5-1/2.
Following that day, there were yrs. of court hearings meant to decide Laura’s fate. The other parents never showed up, never released her for adoption, never contacted her or us. They were turned into the authorities for child abuse and blamed us for it. The best we could get was guardianship but no adoption. The parents needed to cooperate for us to be able to adopt her, they refused.
God was so good to send us a lawyer to represent us for nothing all those years. He even sent a retired judge who “adopted” Laura as his grandchild. It was through this man that we were finally able to adopt Laura. He knew the head of probate who had the authority to help us and one day he went to see him. Two weeks later she was a “real” Smith at 12 yrs old. The adoption was final. Her old parents were pressured to release and they did.
Laura didn’t know then about the many court appearances we had to go through nor the miracles that happened on her behalf. She thought the minute she parked her lone little brown shopping bag of belongings at my house that she was a Smith. We let her think that.
In the beginning I thought I had rescued her and given her a new life, but as time went on I believed we received so much more from her. Laura had a beautiful, loving spirit. She sang with the voice of an angel, danced and put on shows, wanted to be carried and had a constant smile on her face. She clung to us and never asked about her other mother. Instantly she was the baby sister of 3 older siblings. She blossomed. Everyone who met her, loved her instantly.
That didn’t change as she grew older. She was like the pied piper. There was always a group of kids following her around. The parents of her friends always wanted her to come back to visit them! Laura made everyone feel like they were her best friend, she loved everyone and extended grace where grace was lacking. In high school there were at least 5 boys in love with her at the same time. This past April Laura got engaged to her high school sweetheart who was getting shipped out to Iraq in July. She became pregnant before he left for overseas.
Laura never made distinctions with people. All were worthy of her attention and friendship. Her friends were her life. If she could just work and spend all her time with them, she was in heaven. When she was offered a great job promotion to NJ, she told me her “heart hurt” to think of leaving Cape Cod and her life there.
Laura turned down the job and returned to Cape Cod from the summer spent with us at the New Jersey shore. She arrived home on a Friday and died the following Thursday. The life that she returned to was taken from her.
So you see how Laura was a survivor. She survived abandonment, life threatening illness, rejection, abuse, and loss…. What she didn’t survive was the abortion that took her life on September 13, 2007.



Jill, there was a protest at his home recently. Please tell Eileen Smith that there are many MA prolifers who are willing to do whatever they can to help. This abortionist was infamous even before this tragedy. He has a very shady past.
Carrie, thanks for the news on the protest!
It was on orboston’s website.
To me one of the saddest things about this story is that maybe this abortion would never have happened at all if her husband had not “left her to the choice as to whether the baby lived or died”. The reason I feel this way is that implicit in this action is a seeming lack of emotional support by the husband for his pregnant wife – a sort of ambivalence by the Laura’s husband. Research has shown that many women choose abortion due to a lack of support by the father. May God bless Laura and comfort her husband and parents.
The info isn’t on the website anymore(or maybe I can’t retrieve it). Anyways, I wanted to attend but couldn’t. I can try to get some more info about it.
This is so sad.
Laura died on Osathanondh’s table. Details are unknown, but her toxocology report came back normal. Apparently, the anesthesia simply overcame her.
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You DO know that that happens every now and then.
A perfectly healthy, sound patient checks out from perfectly administered anesthesia.
Carrie,
Are you from Mass? I am as well. I’d be willing to join any protests for Eileen Smith or against this bum abortionist. I live in the North, by the New-Hamshire border.
In Massachusetts, you couldn’t shut down an abortion mill even if had rats living in it. It’s because the legislature is 95% democrat and very liberal, especially when it comes to abortion. Then just increased the buffer-zone around the death camps from 18->35 feet. It swept through the legislature with no fight.
I think the DA down there is dragging his feet, (I’ll bet he’s a pro-abort as well)
I’m going to look him up and email to let him we’re monitoring this case.
Yes, I am Jasper. I live in southern MA. It would be a hike to get to the Cape, but I’d be willing to do it. I hear ya about our legislature. Very pro-abort.
This abortionist has a death-mill in Brookline, Mass too.
The DA:
Operation Rescue is urging calls to the local district attorney asking for a formal investigation of Rabin Osathanondh in the abortion death of Laura Hope Smith.
District Attorney Michael D. O’Keefe
Phone: 508-362-8113
E-Mail: CapeDA@Massmail.state.ma.us
When on earth will pro-aborts learn that the women who have abortions and either live or die from them, are NOT statistics…they are actual people…with husbands, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters etc. So many people are affected by just one abortion, including the baby. Boy this story just fuels my fire!!! It’s not about choice..it’s about the choice to destroy, and destroy many lives at that!
My prayers go out to Laura’s family. May God continue to comfort you throughout this difficult time.
I didn’t know that he did abortions in Brookline too. I could definitely get to Brookline.
Jasper, I am going to call the DA.
“Boy this story just fuels my fire!!! ”
I know Carrie, I don’t recall seeing this story in the Herald or Globe (maybe it was in the Globe (boston.com)) But I’ll bet it was buried.
I know Carrie, I don’t recall seeing this story in the Herald or Globe (maybe it was in the Globe (boston.com)) But I’ll bet it was buried.
Posted by: jasper at December 19, 2007 7:28 PM
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It’s a non-story!
Apparently the medical authorities feel that the man did nothing wrong. No charges filed.
Go home…
Jasper, I don’t recall seeing it in the Globe or the Herald. I find the Globe to be extremely pro-abort,more than any other media source that I have ever encountered actually. I think the Herald may have covered it, but I don’t recall. I find the Herald to be more even-handed in their coverage.
AB Laura, I realize that these are real people. But there are plenty of people who die from anesthesia during routine root canals, wisdom tooth removals, biopsies, and so on, who are also real people. Anesthesia is a tricky area of medicine, and these kinds of unexpected tragedies DO HAPPEN. I reacted badly to anesthesia when I had my wisdom teeth out, my blood pressure plummeted and I spazzed out on the nurse. Anesthesia is as safe as it can be right now, and that’s not 100%. I’m sorry that this woman died. I am. But these kind of things DO happen.
I guess these things do happen— bad reactions to anesthesia — but in a proper setting with good, competent medical personnel — they are not fatal.
In Illinois this week and earlier this year, two people died in dentist offices. In both cases the dentist have come under great scrutiny — and legal sanction. The death of a high school principle just this week was covered nationally.
But of course our pro-abort Laura and other pro-aborts brush this off. Abortionists are not medical personnel, but businessmen. He didn’t even go with Laura Smith to the hospital — he had to make a buck. He had no nurses or anyone to help him with the procedure because it would cut into profits. The clinic was not a ‘care center’ it is a profit center and nothing more.
I hope that this place gets shut down and that the family is able to sue this “un-doctor” for everything he has.
This story would have been a good place for the pro-aborts on this board (Laura and Erin) to either shut-up or express compassion. Yet you made comments that show your true colors.
My heart goes out to Laura Smith’s family and for the families of others killed by abortionists and their supporters.
Jill,
Is Eileen pro-life or pro-choice?
I couldn’t tell from the story.
Erin,
I know, and I agree. However, with my stance on abortion, I feel that it is an unecessary procedure to begin with, and I know you guys don’t. Put yourself in my shoes, if you can, and you’ll understand my heartbreak with this story and soooooooo many others.
My heart goes out to Laura Smith’s family and for the families of others killed by abortionists and their supporters.
Posted by: LB at December 19, 2007 7:58 PM
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So, if this chick carried to term and had her freaky anesthesia reaction during a caesarian, you’d call for the arrest of her OB/GYN? Even if he did nothing wrong? Maybe her anesthesiologist, too?
Laura,
I suppose if Dr. R actually had an anesthesiologist on staff that administered the stuff, then we’d have a different ball game. But he’s the only med guy on premises and runs the med show himself, according to the article.
Plus, a c-section involves more personnel and equipment than what Dr. R had available.
Not sure that comparing this with C-sections is equitable. We keep hearing how “safe” abortion is/should be. Why aren’t the abortion heavy-hitters pouncing on this? On him?
Sorry, not Dr. R, it’s Dr. O, as in Osathanondh.
So, if this chick carried to term and had her freaky anesthesia reaction during a caesarian, you’d call for the arrest of her OB/GYN? Even if he did nothing wrong? Maybe her anesthesiologist, too?
Posted by: Laura at December 19, 2007 8:04 PM
____________________________________________
First, this ‘chick’ was a real person as the article above details. Do you use that term as some sort of insult or something. She was a person a real one. She died in an uncaring place at the hands of an negligent person ‘acting’ as a doctor.
Second, a ceasarian would do doubt be done in a medical facility where there are trained staff and equipment and real attempts would be made to save a life. Of course if malpractice occured in that setting then that can be contested. But in a hospital a true attempt to save a life would be made.
Laura, again your commentary shows that you lack compassion for others no matter their stage of life or circumstances. Abortion is really something you must enjoy because you defend it at all costs — how many have you performed or had?? just curious? Or are you paid to haunt this board?
Laura died on Osathanondh’s table. Details are unknown, but her toxocology report came back normal. Apparently, the anesthesia simply overcame her.
It’s a shame, but it doesn’t sound like the doctor did anything wrong here.
Osathanondh may or may not have been in the room at the time.
O RLY? Isn’t that kind of like saying “Jill Stanek may or may not be delusional?”
Had Osathanondh killed a dog in his office, a crime would certainly have been committed.
But since he didn’t intentionally kill anyone, and doesn’t seem to have acted negligently, a crime probably hasn’t been committed.
A US/Honduran adoption agent told me it was the custom of the poor Mayan natives, when their infants became sick with life threatening illnesses to abandon them at a local hospital. Not out of indifference but out of love and a hope of a better life for them. The parents knew that they would be sent to the orphanage and adopted out of poverty and out of the country.
What revolting exploitation of desperately impoverished women.
Kind of makes you think, doesn’t it? If adoption is such a wonderful option, why was Laura so desperate to avoid giving another child that fate?
Maybe if the US had cared enough to help poor Honduran children without ripping their families apart, Laura would be alive today with her natural family.
What she didn’t survive was the abortion that took her life on September 13, 2007.
Not that you care. If abortion is illegal, which is what you people want, even MORE women will die.
“In 1965, at least 193 women died from illegal abortions, Planned Parenthood said. The number of deaths by illegal abortion plummeted, and in 2003, there were 10 abortion-related deaths, none a result of illegal abortion, said the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in a new report.”
If you had your way, we’d have more than 10 women just like Laura dying every MONTH, rather than 10 per year. But instead of bemoaning their deaths, you people would be cheering them.
LB- that’s not true. There are tons of instances every year where bad reactions to anesthesia in any surgical setting end in death. They are tragic! I feel bad that this woman died! But it does happen. AB Laura, it may not have been a necessary procedure, but plenty of surgical procedures aren’t necessary and end like this. Plastic surgery, for example, has some of the highest elective surgery fatality rates. (P.S., when I had my wisdom teeth out and reacted badly, my oral surgeon had administered the anesthesia himself. On minor procedures without full on general anesthesia, it’s perfectly acceptable among the medical community. In these procedures, they put you in the ‘twilight’ area, and they’re traditionally less risky than complete general.)
Erin,
Yes, but here it’s a double-whammy…two people die in the unecessary procedure.
Erin,
BTW…I’m sorry your procedure (wisdom teeth) went so bad for you. You must have been pretty scared! I’m glad it wasn’t any more serious than it was!
“It’s a non-story!”
In your heart of hearts, is that something you would tell Eileen? Her daughter’s death a non-story?
I was pretty out of it, Laura, I don’t even remember it. It was probably worse for my mom than it was for me! She told me later that the nurse kept having to push me back down on the cot because I kept trying to sit up and look at the monitors! But yeah…anesthesia is a tricky little bugger. But hey, it’s better then the old days. Couple fingers on the carotid artery, and 50% chance you ever wake up. I’ll take my chances with modern medicine!
Yes, this case has all the earmarks of a rare event. No one is immune from rare events, and the more patients you see, the more you are exposed to the risk of rare events.
The only good thing about rare events is that they are rare.
carder —
I suppose if Dr. O actually had an anesthesiologist on staff that administered the stuff, then we’d have a different ball game. But he’s the only med guy on premises and runs the med show himself, according to the article.
The state doesn’t require an anesthesiologist, so why should he have one on staff?
We keep hearing how “safe” abortion is/should be. Why aren’t the abortion heavy-hitters pouncing on this? On him?
It is safe, but that doesn’t mean it’s perfect. Vaccines are safe, too, but they also happen to kill a handful of people every year. That doesn’t mean we should outlaw vaccination.
“Vaccines are safe, too, but they also happen to kill a handful of people every year. That doesn’t mean we should outlaw vaccination.”
@TP: Many people on this blog would disagree with you on that one. A good portion of them want to get rid of vaccines or choose to not vaccinate their children as many of the vaccines were derived from aborted fetuses (apparently) and they allegedly “cause autism”.
Wow, Laura, TP, Erin & SoMG are on Board. Good to see the whole coven is up and running.
Yo, Bambi. I’m not a Wiccan. I’m a pagan atheist. Get it straight!
Also, I didn’t cry when your mom died. Maybe that has to do with the fact that I didn’t see it till I was 12, or maybe I’m just THAT EVIL. MUAHAHA!
A Pagan atheist? Isn’t that a contradiction in terms?
Bambi?
“Also, I didn’t cry when your mom died. Maybe that has to do with the fact that I didn’t see it till I was 12, or maybe I’m just THAT EVIL. MUAHAHA!”
@Erin: For the record, I didn’t cry when Bambi’s mom died either in the movie “Bambi”. I actually hate that movie…and when I would play “Oregon Trail” and I’d go hunting, I’d shoot the does and my mom would say, “STOP KILLING BAMBI’S MOM!”
*done*
Bambi and Thumper?
I am just amazed that none of the pro-aborts ever see that there is a bad abortion or bad abortionist. The fact that this guy had no back-up for this situation is just okay? If bad reactions happen so often, then why not have some back-up? No, extra staff would mean extra expenses; going to the hospital with a patient would take time away from making a buck.
No it’s just some chick have an abortion — no people were involved. Erin, at least you seem to have a bit of compassion…
Bambi is right, the pro-aborts just seem to pop up here as if summoned. How many are real, how many are aliases…hum…or perhaps sitting at the clinic hanging on the board….
SoMG- not technically. By definition, pagan is anyone who isn’t a follower of the Abrahamic God. I don’t believe in any kind of god- but I do subscribe to some intricate theories of natural balance and karmic system. Yin-yang and what not. But I don’t believe in any remote form of sentient, driving force.
Wow, Laura, TP, Erin & SoMG are on Board. Good to see the whole coven is up and running.
Illegal abortion in 1965 caused nineteen times as many deaths as legal abortion does today. What’s pro-life about wanting to go back to that?
LB- they aren’t often. They’re rare. But they do happen. It’s drastically expensive to employ medical professionals. I think my bills are high enough, don’t you? It’s always easy when it’s a personal experience to say, “they should have” or “I should have”, but there are tens of thousands of women to this one woman whose procedures went through without a hitch. This is a tragic way for a young lady to lose her life, and I hope that this experience can be utilized to prevent further deaths like this one. Also, I come to this board because I thrive on debate. Some people are willing to have good debates on here (Bethany and I just had a remarkably enlightening and civil discussion on terminology), and some are just jerks who say that we’re evil. I come because I like to have my views challenged. If I ever meet an argument that I really, honestly cannot refute and that warps my perception, I will change my opinions in an instant. In fact, I’d love for someone to be able to rock my world like that. New perceptions are what I live for.
“In fact, I’d love for someone to be able to rock my world like that.”
Thought you’d never ask.
Carder, before you get too excited, I’ve read the whole dang bible. The word of Jesus has thus far failed to ‘rock my world’.
That’s funny, Erin. I don’t ever recall slapping anyone on this board with sacred scripture. Interesting how you arrived at that conclusion.
Today, Legal abortion kills many more — at least one killed at each procedure — guaranteed!
Pro-life is pro-hope. Pro-abort is pro-death and for some pro-profit. I think you’ll just would hate to lose the money, if it became illegal.
Bye all, turning for the night. Good to see you’ll are still demonstrating the your lack of compassion and embrace of abortion in every situation.
LB —
I am just amazed that none of the pro-aborts ever see that there is a bad abortion or bad abortionist. The fact that this guy had no back-up for this situation is just okay?
Of course there are bad abortions and bad abortion providers. That’s why they need to be legal: so doctors can perform them and states can regulate them to make them as safe as possible.
The worst abortions of all are illegal, unregulated, black market abortions. This type of abortion is equally deadly to fetuses, but far more deadly for women.
LB, thank you so much for your posts. I hope you will stick around.
tp,
Illegal abortion in 1965 caused nineteen times as many deaths as legal abortion does today. What’s pro-life about wanting to go back to that?
Posted by: tp at December 19, 2007 9:02 PM
You are only counting the deaths of mothers. If you account for the millions of children, like myself, who are alive because abortion wasn’t legal, then the numbers are much different.
Well Erin, the hypocrite,
care to explain the death of Laura Smith within the karmic system you find intelligent enough to live by?
What ying and yang was being balanced by the death of Laura Hope Smith?
Btw, what is the cause of PTSD which you are suffering from Erin?
You are only counting the deaths of mothers. If you account for the millions of children, like myself, who are alive because abortion wasn’t legal, then the numbers are much different.
Posted by: hippie at December 20, 2007 12:15 AM
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If your mother had been that interested in ending her pregnancy, she would have.
Besides, I’m sure he doesn’t administer “general anaesthesia” himself. What you mean is, twilight sedation. IV Sodium Pentathol. Doesn’t even stop the gag reflex.
I note that at 13 weeks, this was a second trimester procedure, an inherently riskier one that wouldn’t have been performed by your favorite villain, Planned Parenthood. I also lament that if Laura was going to have an abortion, she waited so long, no doubt in part because of how much you all have done to stigmatize it, instead of obtaining a much safer first trimester procedure. Yes, you read it right: in all seriousness, I place part of the blame for Laura’s death on you, the antis.
yllas- I have a feeling you don’t really care. So I’m not going to answer ;-)
Erin, administering general anesthesia when you don’t have an anesthesiologist or CRNA on the premises to monitor the patient isn’t acceptable. And it appears at this point that this is what O was doing.
I remember back when public health officials actually cared about whether or not women survived their safe and legal aboritons, and they were putting out warnings to stop being so slipshod with anestheisa. Now they just shrug and say, “So sue the guy. It’s not our problem.”
TP, abortion deaths were plummetting for decades before legalization. It’d make more sense to credit WWII than to credit legalization, since WWII forced the medical breakthroughs like readily available blood transfusions and antibiotics that did far more to reduce mortality than letting “back alley butchers” hang out their shingles on Main Street.
Good one Ray. What a pointed insult…….not. Oh and by the way, I blame you proaborts for the deaths of over one million unborn children every year.
Good one Ray. What a pointed insult…….not.
LOL
Well Erin,
Just tell me how Laura Smith’s death death is explained within your pagan atheist karmic system of thought.
Come on Erin, you got a board of different Christians explaining their thoughts(spirit) about abortion.
Are you afraid to describe your system of thought about your personal karmic laws and dynamics of life?
How pagan atheist karma , can explain the death of Laura Smith, beyond the fact that she went in to a doctor’s office alive and died under his care.
What lesson, Erin the hypocrite, beyond going to a incompetent doctor who will be scapegoating a large pharmaceutical corporation , have you gained from the death of Laura Hope Smith?
I can explain it as the actions of a doctor who was just a accident waiting to happen, from being a practicioner of thinking like you Erin.
Posted by: Ray at December 20, 2007 1:30 AM
note that at 13 weeks, this was a second trimester procedure, an inherently riskier one that wouldn’t have been performed by your favorite villain, Planned Parenthood. I also lament that if Laura was going to have an abortion, she waited so long, no doubt in part because of how much you all have done to stigmatize it, instead of obtaining a much safer first trimester procedure. Yes, you read it right: in all seriousness, I place part of the blame for Laura’s death on you, the antis.
RAY – WRONG – PP Aurora does abortions up to 14 weeks.
PLer’s didn’t kill her – THE ABORTIONIST DID. He murdered her and her unborn child. If he was a “real doctor” or “real surgon”, there would be judicial remedy. Anyone who performs a medical procedure should be regulated. If abortists were regulated and held to the same medical standards as legitimate doctors she in all likelyhood would still be alive.
So if you want to blame anyone, blame yourselves for fighting reasonable regualtions, that all other medical and surgical centers must adhere too.
And it is disgusting that any PCer would view her as a non-person. Then again, we shouldn’t be surprised. If you don’t view the unborn as being human and therefore has intrinsic value, why should you treat Laura with respect, dignity or respect. She is just a stat to all of you and so what. WOW – CHOICE AT IT’S BEST!!!
Is it not time to pass a law which states that a video recording of abortion operations using anesthesia should be mandatory?
After all, law enforcement officers have their actions recorded to verify their actions.
Pilots are recorded for investigative reasons and safety review.
Why, even the Congress of the USA, allows their activities to be recorded by CSPAN.
It allows truth to win out and investigations to be more precise in their conclusions.
Laura and Erin
Anesthesia administered by someone not credentialled (anesthesiologist or nurse anesthetist) is bad enough. That someone would administer anesthesia and perform surgery simultaneously is even worse. Unthinkable in fact and unheard of in any hospital.
Also, no OB/GYN would administer the anesthesia and perform the Cesarean section at the same time.
You think the absence of qualified personnel to assist in emergencies is acceptable?
I’ve handled my share of anesthetic emergencies, or situations that while not immediately emergent, could become such. Thank heaven I didn’t have only a “hand holder” and receptionist to call upon for assistance.
Christina 5:06am
Excellent post. Indeed, the death rate from illegal abortion had been steadily declining for years prior to Roe. In 1972, the death was 36.
The newly formed NARAL even found it necessary to distort and lie about the death rate from illegal abortion to generate sympathy for their cause.
Ray – Here are some more interesting facts about places like PP:
“Complications following abortions performed in free-standing clinics is one of the most frequent gynecologic emergencies . . . encountered. Even life-endangering complications rarely come to the attention of the physician who performed the abortion unless the incident entails litigation. The statistics presented by Cates represent substantial under- reporting and disregard women
SOMG, 12:33am
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Using sodium pentothol is administering general anesthesia and should always be respected as such. Every patient will react differently and you better be prepared for the worst. Treating this or any other drug without the respect it deserves is not the way to start.
Sodium pentothol for “twilight sedation”? At least get your terminology straight. Its “monitored anesthesia care”, aka MAC anesthesia.
You may very well have your drugs confused and be thinking of propofol, and even that can have serious risks which is the reason our patients are closely monitored and the drug administered by credentialled personnel. By the way, only anesthesia providers and licensed physicians can administer propofol, though the physicians for the most part have the good sense to leave it to the anesthesia providers.
tp, 8:26pm
I’m pleasantly surprised to see you acknowledge that abortion advocates did indeed lie when they claimed women were dying by the thousands from illegal abortion.
Also, if legal abortion meant safety, why were there no qualified personnel caring for Laura?
Also, why have clinics closed down because of unsafe conditions?
yllas- It’s VICEPERSON, get it straight!
Mary- because sometimes any health clinic has poor conditions and needs to be shut down. Just about a month ago we had a free clinic shut down a few miles from my house because it was simply filthy. If a place is in bad condition, it needs to be shut down either permanently or until it meets standards. It applies to any medical office.
Mary- the type of sedation used in that type of surgery is completely legal for a licensed professional to use. It is not generally powerful stuff. If this woman had gone in for, say, a root canal, and reacted like this to the anesthesia that the oral surgeon had given her, would you still be throwing a fit? It’s not full out general anesthesia. The patient will typically even have vague awareness. Anesthesiologists are expensive. They’re not going to be used on run of the mill, repetitious procedures.
Erin,
I am all for shutting down dirty and dangerous facilities of any kind. That is why we have state inspections and regulations, to protect the public, maintain standards, and shut down facilities that are substandard. We have heard of so many abortion clinics being found substandard. Isn’t this the type of situation legalizing abortion was supposed to prevent? Wasn’t Laura supposed to be cared for by qualified personnel? Are abortion clinics subject to the same standards and regular inspections that other health facilities, including hospitals, are subject to?
If so, some inspectors have been seriously derelict in their responsibility.
Sedation is one thing, general anesthesia another. Yes, licensed physicians can indeed administer sedation(usually versed), they can even give general anesthesia which includes propofol and pentothol.
Properly credentialled registered nurses can administer sedation for certain procedures. They also have a physician present, patients are monitored, emergency equipment is available, they know how to recognize and properly respond to an emergency, and if they are working in a hospital, they can also call for immediate assistance from respiratory therapy or anesthesia. They cannot administer propofol and/or pentothol.
Erin, sedation is indeed “powerful stuff” and should always be treated with the respect it deserves. In the wrong hands, without proper monitoring, trained personnel, and resuscitation equipment immediately available, and administered in an incorrect dosage for a particular patient, it can be deadly. Determining correct dosages can be hit and miss at best. What’s safe for one patient could be oversedating another, or undersedating still another.
If this was an oral surgeon would I throw a fit? I most certainly would if the patient had not been properly monitored, no emergency equipment was available, and assisting personnel consisted of a receptionist and hand holder instead of qualified personnel prepared to handle an emergency. I would also wonder how it got to the point that someone just happened to notice the patient wasn’t breathing. Yes Erin, I would definitely say someone should be hung out to dry.
Yes anesthesiologists are expensive. However, both they and nurse anesthetists administer sedation and general anesthetics in doctor’s offices under strict state guidelines and regulations.
Still waiting for your explaination of Laura Smith’s death within your atheist pagan system of thought, Erin the hypocrite.
Afraid to profess your beliefs in more detail, about your pagan atheist religion beyond stating your a atheist pagan believer?
Typical shoddy thinking from a shoddy mind.
It is what becomes of hypocrites who profess masturbation while denying the practice for themselves.
On a stricly materialist/psychological level of life Erin, do you know who your first love object in life is?
But, one must admit being raised amongst a family of hypocrites Erin, was it possible for you to turn out anything but a hypocrite yourself?
Your mother was a hypocritical Christian, your father must have been a hypocritical Christian. Your whole family was nothing more then Christian hypocrites who lowered their standards to meet their desires for denying their hypocrisy.
You just saw through their hypocritical Christian ways of life and became a atheist pagan hypocrite.
What have you gained hypocrite Erin?
A tat and piercing on skin, which you hide from the public? A person who can’t even write one word beyond stating they are a practicing atheist pagan, and leave it at that, from being afraid to have their thought system torn down into nothing more then a self made fantasy world developed by a hypocrite named Erin?
What a coward, Erin the hypocrite, many here take your nihlist balony of Christianity, while your fear of being exposed as the most foolish thought system invented by a hypocrite named Erin. Who will not even write one word of your thought system of atheist paganism beyond stating your a practicing atheist pagan.
Hello, I’m Erin the nihlist, a result of failed Christian family of hypocrites, who made me the fool that I am today.
Don’t insult my family, yllas. You’re a jerk.
yllas,
Please, enough already.
Erin: It’s VICEPERSON, get it straight!
Oh no – once a Vicelord, always a Vicelord.
There’s no going back.
Was your mother, father, etc, weak Christians, Erin?
Attended services once a year and complained about those fake hypocritical Christians they met at their once a year sacrifice to Jesus?
Or are you second generation atheist pagan afraid to write about being raised in the thought system of atheist paganism beyond stating that you’re a atheist pagan.
Bring something to the table Erin the hypocrite, besides your nihlist bigotry for Christians who defend life in the womb.
I’m raised in the South, peckerwood, and there was never a shortage of failed Christians such as you, Erin the hypocrite, and families that produce hypocrites such as you.
Ever Friday night your parents, relatives, in- laws, went a drinkin and boozin to those “ice houses” down here in the friendly state.
Fact is Erin, I got a doctorate in peckerwoods like you Erin.
I’m three generations of selling wine, liquor, beer, to peckerwood families in the South.
I use to listen to your cops, lawyers, doctors, express their booze thoughts about Christianity.
And guess what Erin the hypocrite, you fit the bill to a tee.
Always at that bewitching hour, which you could set your clock by, some mother and father who have raised people like you Erin, would bust out in a fight. Now, Erin the purpose of the fight was to justify screwing their neighbor later on that night. Someone’s shoulder to cry on Erin. That is why Doug thinks he was dropped by some suffering women going through public humiliation and doubt. Doug, is that typical manipulator of weak humans who create a fight to justify their vice. Which is why Doug only expressed as a “few mistakes” he might have made in his tale of chivalrous behavior towards a suffering women . And that includes professors of law, to judges and their women, who admired the prestige of being around the power of law enforcement.
Vice? You ain’t got a clue about vice, Erin, which makes selling it ta ya easier.
Why those children of failed Chrisitians would see through that fake Christianity, and think they have come upon a great discovery in life.
Following that revelation, those children of failed Christians, or pagan athiest, would get tats and piercings to show their pride in their family being fakes and hypocrites.
Next thing ya know, those peckerwood kids think that expressing nihilist thoughts about Christians is not a reflection on their family that raised such as fool.
Well Mary, if Erin can dish it out, surly Erin can take it. And Doug, how much of a drinkin problem do you have? Twice you have mentioned your wine episodes around family members?
Ah, pretentious Atlanta appellations, with a bouquet of pcb aromas to tickle the mind of Doug.
yllas,
You’ve made your point, whatever it is, time and again concerning Erin. Frankly yllas its repetitious, tiresome, abusive, at times crass, and often nonsensical. Now please drop it.
When I expressed my previous concerns as to your mental health, I wasn’t being mean. I in fact hoped you would take my advise.
yllas, I don’t give a damn what you say about me. You leave my family out of it.
Well Mary.
Being that pro abortionist are well respected here, for being for abortion, and their nihilist attacks upon Christianity, your defence of Erin speaks volumes to why abortion has continued to this day.
Great job, Mary, you know your going to convert Erin some day, while losing thousands to the choice movement, by being unable to convince a person such as Erin that the root of her bigotry lies within herself through failed Christians parents.
After all Mary, if atheist/pagans are a small minority, just who is producing all those pro aborts minds Mary? Why failed Christians, that’s who.
While you tend the wayward sheep,such as Erin, Mary, millions more so called Christians will be converted to abortion.
Than again, most mainline Christian faiths, such as Episcopalians, to all the smaller cults of Christianity, find abortion a virtue, Mary. And that means your God is confused or a liar to millions of youthful minds.Your God is for death and then for life Mary. Which makes Erin think it is logical to chuck, throw away, the whole Christian thang Mary.!!!! Erin is more logical and able to defend her atheist paganism from being unified in faith/thought system/spirit, while you have millions of Christians being as right about abortion as your form of Christianity is right about not allowing abortion. Which God is the real God of Christianity Mary? Your God that denies women the right to murder their off spring, or that other Christianity with the same God being prayed to, for murdering of their off spring?
Soo Mary, just which so called Christian cult decided to make abortion a virtous act defended by Doug to Erin the hypocrite first? Ask Erin, what past Christian thought system did Erin belong to. Tis nothing but asking why a personality becomes so twisted to killing a baby in the womb.
Wow, this thread has taken a really bizarre turn…I’d like to second what Patricia said way back at the beginning. It takes a helluva man to shrug off his fianc
You know, I’m going to become rich and famous someday when I invent a device that allows you to flip people off across the internet.
Someone’s shoulder to cry on Erin. That is why Doug thinks he was dropped by some suffering women going through public humiliation and doubt.
yllas, you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to pick on nice people like Erin, Midnite, etc.
As for my ex-girlfriend way back when, she and I were honest about things, unlike you.
……
Vice? You ain’t got a clue about vice, Erin
Now wait a minute, Buster! You said she was a Vicelord. You hear that, a Vicelord! Why are you trying to change your tune now?
Doug, how much of a drinkin problem do you have?
I have no problem drinking.
……
Twice you have mentioned your wine episodes around family members? Ah, pretentious Atlanta appellations, with a bouquet of pcb aromas to tickle the mind of Doug.
It’s really not pretentious at all. My wife’s family is a “typical” Italian one, if you’ll permit a reference to a common stereotype.
They tend to be fairly loud, and there are usually some instances of door-slamming and voices being raised, and I mean RAISED. But things cool down fast, too, and we have some great games of Bocce ball.
My family is more restrained, and there are a lot more kids around – I have 18 nieces and nephews on my side – and it’s a whole different atmosphere.
Speaking of atmospheres, though – you know that PCBs really don’t have a smell to them.
Happy Birthday, yllas.
their nihilist attacks upon Christianity
It’s really just that myth, fantasy and superstition – while they may be fine for some people – are not a good reason to make rules up for other people.
yllas, the air compressors await. Mortal thoughts, hurled like howitzers, soaring wide in our imagination; the fluidity, the permeability, the resonance of the situation.
If we’re talking about taking away people’s freedom – in this case taking away the freedom that women have in the matter – then I think there ought to be some demonstrable good reason to do so, a persuasive argument that we all or almost all can agree upon, and of course there isn’t even remotely anything like that present.
Thus, it’s much better to let women continue to be free, just as they are now, rather than go with what people like you say.
Doug
To paraphrase Mary, Doug.
Same old thing for ya Doug. Kill the baby. Kill the baby. Doug allows death, from the myth that death is a healing act for the baby in the womb. Your for death Doug, I’m for life. Your a death dealing pirate, who pushes others for decisions in life that you would not do. Just as Lt. Keefer acted in the play named Caine Mutiny, later a movie. And my assement of your story about the suffering women you abandoned through manipulation, is a note about your personality.
BTW, Doug, my name ends in a vowel, and of course I’m not Sicilian, I’m Tuscan. That’s the ticket.
And that word “matter” that you use in defence of your pro death mind Doug, is actually a ridiculous euphemism. It’s soo crass. Soo? Ummm? Soo Goebbels speak.
Ya see Doug, characters such as you, who saddled up to the bar/restaurant with their useful vice providers in tow, were a common phenomenon.
Now, Doug, since you appear to not have been able to be a common male person and have a family and children in their 20’s, it is a save bet that your a favorite character of my business life.
Or are you going to suddenly become a hermit king Doug, that didn’t partake in the bar/eating life.
Reading your post Doug bring back memories of those characters and personalities which pontificated about religion and other matters( a word learned from Doug to mean anything it needs to mean) with a drink in one hand and a suffering women in tow. You know the type Doug, single, divorced, or just a women gettin some justice on their spouses who made a “mistake” earlier in the day. Hint, Hint, Doug, see that word “mistake”.
You demonstrate no argument for abortion Doug, outside your desire to allow others to murder the result of their vice, overruling their reason.
Your for vice Doug. So am I Doug. No one needs to drink alcohol Doug. You can live without it, but it “feels” so good Doug.
Your a feeling kinda guy Doug. Your a result of feelings ruling reason Doug, that results in death, from what is meant by nature to produce the gift of life.
You cheat nature for pleasure Doug.
The feeling is what matters for ya Doug.
A simple pain, pleaure man, is your thinking Doug. A person, less natural then a buck deer, who cheats life for self pleasure.
And that Italian stereotype is true Doug. Which is to say, I bet a ya Doug, your not Italian.
Why I bet a ya Doug, your the crazy uncle in da family. Only they don’t say it to ya face.
Papa Papa, it’s a crazy pirate Doug, he a thinks a murderin, is not a murderin. Shud uppa yur face, and a give a Doug another glass of vino.
It helps us to a see the real Doug, behind the mask of fake civility he wears for us.
And grandma hugs the child and whispers in the ear, Doug is a overtaken with the spirits of life from being electrocuted once a many times. Pray for a Doug, bambino. And let him be a lesson ta ya, my little angel.
yllas, you do put some effort into it. I’m glad to see you reveal at least a bit about yourself, rather than just hiding. I don’t know if you’re male or female, but I’m guessing you’re a guy.
You are quite wrong about many things, and I’m wondering if you aren’t just a southern grouch. I do think there is more to you than that.
……
Now, Doug, since you appear to not have been able to be a common male person and have a family and children in their 20’s, it is a save bet that your a favorite character of my business life.
Or are you going to suddenly become a hermit king Doug, that didn’t partake in the bar/eating life.
It’s not good for everybody to have a family in their 20s. It’s best for some people never to do it. As far as “favorite character” – I figure you mean a good customer, and yes – restaurants love people like me. I’m no Diamond Jim Brady but I hold my own.
Don’t worry about me not going into bars or restaurants – you’ve little to fear there. Coincidence – had blood tests yesterday and a doctor’s appointment today. All is well. (Surprised me a bit.)
No “hermit king” here, though as far as going to shopping malls this time of year YES.
……
The feeling is what matters for ya Doug.
That’s what matters for us all. I go with the feeling, thinking, caring pregnant woman, rather than with the unfeeling, uncaring unborn. You go with yourself, with what you feel, and that is no reason at all to take away women’s freedom in the matter.
……
And that Italian stereotype is true Doug. Which is to say, I bet a ya Doug, your not Italian.
Yeah, it’s often true, and it’s not a bad thing. And for once, you are right – I’m blond and blue-eyed. One of my mom’s friends called me “her Viking.”
…….
Why I bet a ya Doug, your the crazy uncle in da family. Only they don’t say it to ya face.
:: laughing :: They do say it to my face.
One sister-in-law said, “Every child should have an Uncle Doug.” My wife and I don’t have kids, so we’re different from the other uncles & aunts on my side of the family. The nieces and nephews love being with us because they can do just about anything – it’s a lot different when they’re with their parents or with other adults who have kids.
……
Doug is a overtaken with the spirits of life from being electrocuted once a many times.
Nope, Dude, never, and that’s one thing I don’t want to get. That’s a nasty one there. I’ve gotten 110 and 220 and even 480 a few times and that’s more than enough.
And Geez – not that the lower voltages aren’t dangerous. A tenth of an amp, even at 110 volts or 12 volts, for that matter, for less than a second, going through the heart, could stop it.
Reading your post Doug bring back memories of those characters and personalities which pontificated about religion
yllas, obviously there is a bunch of crazy stuff already in your mind, but anyway – religion really isn’t a good topic, often, especially when people are drinking.
……
and other matters (a word learned from Doug to mean anything it needs to mean)
Well, words should mean what they need to mean. In the matter of abortion or not/continuing pregnancies or not, it is best to let the woman decide what is best for her. Say what you want, conjure up what stories you want, and it’s still best to let the woman decide.
……
with a drink in one hand and a suffering women in tow. You know the type Doug, single, divorced, or just a women gettin some justice on their spouses who made a “mistake” earlier in the day. Hint, Hint, Doug, see that word “mistake”.
Well, yes, I do know the type, but that’s not me. I never cheated on a girlfriend and I have never cheated on my wife nor will I ever. Women do not suffer around me, whereas with you I think it’s at least a valid question. For all your wackiness, my sisters-in-law love me.