Condoms, a “safer” sex staple
Funny, but jokes mimic life….
Guttmacher admits 2-7% of condoms break during usage. How many Guttmacher administrators would have condom “protected” sex with known HIV or other STD carriers? Yet this is what they push, from America to Africa.
Planned Parenthood admits condoms are only 85% effective at stopping pregnancy, i.e., 15 whoopsies a year for every 100 women whose partners use condoms. 3-4 of those whoopsied will abort, most often at PP. Sweet deal.
Note, btw, contraceptive advocates no longer discuss condoms in terms of “safe” sex but instead, “safer” sex. Interesting.
[HT for graphic: moderator MK]
Jan.28, 2008 7:12 am |
Contraception |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Hahahahahahaha. That’s a funny picture.
It reminds me of a post I saw on “Post Secret” that a girl wrote in which she disclosed that when she used to baby-sit, she’d poke holes into the condoms of her clients to ensure future business.
I remember when in college, a lady from the local family planning clinic was invited to come to our dorms and would give a safer sex talk and hand out handfuls of condoms for which she was nicknamed “the Condom Lady” by students…I got the impression from friends and aquaintances that they didn’t take her or her talks seriously.
Thanks for the laugh! :)
In the Songachi redlight district in Columbia, an aggressive campaign to educate sex workers, madams, and pimps to distribute condoms, and to encourage condom use, has kept the prevalence of HIV among prostitutes below 12%. In other redlight districts, HIV prevalence has climbed above 50%.
In Thailand and the Ivory Cost, as the use of condoms go up, the incidence of AIDS lowers considerably. (Thailand- from 12% to 3%; Ivory Coast from 90% to 30%).
(Cohen 2004; Nelson et al 2002; Ghys et al 2002).
PiP, you’re speaking of a specific small class of people that earns $ from sex, not the general population which should be taught to abstain/be faithful.
In the case of prostitutes, the message along with condom contribution should be to get out of that lifestyle for a multitude of reasons. Would that not be your message to them? Or would you simply give them condoms to enable them?
Agreed Jill. If the madams, pimps and prostitutes were helped out of the “sex trade” then I’m betting the prevalence of HIV would go down scads! Just a thought! But no, let’s enable them!
In a library I worked in last year, our safe sex campaign involved scattering condoms throughout the library! Can you imagine?! Needless to say, staff were very upset. They are already having to deal with patrons having sex in the library (I’m completely serious – buff naked too). What message does this send. Also, librarians and support staff felt that this denigrated their work environment and made them feel like they were not professionals. Management obviously, didn’t have the guts to stand up and give the politically incorrect answer – NO.
Haha…awwww that made me laugh which is GREAT because school starts today.
Really. I’m excited.
What?! Why would a library have a safe sex campaign? Maybe for the porn watching patrons and the ones having sex IN the library?! I learn something new everyday.
In the Songachi redlight district in Columbia, an aggressive campaign to educate sex workers, madams, and pimps to distribute condoms, and to encourage condom use, has kept the prevalence of HIV among prostitutes below 12%. In other redlight districts, HIV prevalence has climbed above 50%.
I wonder how many of those prostitutes are STILL prostituting..which means they can still give HIV to a customer. But whatever, it’s only 2 or 3 people they give it to instead of the 20 without the condom.
I bet that makes those 2 or 3 feel REAL great.
Have a great day at school, Elizabeth!!
“PiP, you’re speaking of a specific small class of people that earns $ from sex, not the general population which should be taught to abstain/be faithful.”
If condoms don’t work, why are the people who use them so often not getting AIDS? You’d think they would rise if condoms are such an ineffective way to help prevent AIDS.
“Or would you simply give them condoms to enable them?”
I can’t make them get out of these kind of jobs, although I simultaneously support programs that help these countries reduce the need for these. Why not aid those in need now, and have eliminating the need for prostitution as a long term goal? Or would you rather these women die from the disease and spread it around before this goal is completed?
Don’t these statistics show that condoms can help prevent it in laymen, who are not having as much sex? Considering people who take abstinence pledges are more likely to NOT use protection when they do, you’d think that a combined program in these areas would be helpful.
“Just a thought! But no, let’s enable them!”
Are you forgetting that it is more than sex workers that are getting AIDS?
Thanks Carla! I don’t actually have school til tomorrow night but my online class starts today!
“I bet that makes those 2 or 3 feel REAL great.”
Yeah I guess it’s better to be a sex worker in the other districts instead.
Jesus. It’s like you people are never satisfied. You complain about the high incidence of AIDS but you can’t rejoice in the fact that with condom use the incidence has fallen considerably. Instead you point to the small population and saying “SEE, it doesn’t work AT ALL”! We better eliminate condoms completely instead!
Well holy crap, forgive us for simply trying to reduce the incidence (all we can do at this point) until a way to eliminate it completely is developed. Ignorance is bliss, or something. Not thinking logically about something does make one feel more justified in their beliefs I guess.
Look, people are going to have sex with people they aren’t married to. It’s going to happen. It has happened since the beginning of the maritial institution. With the predominance of STI’s and unwanted pregnancies, it’s nothing short of burying your head in the sand and saying “LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU” to say that we should just tell everyone not to do it. Every comprehensive sex ed program makes a point to tell it’s students that abstinence is the only way to make sure of no STI’s or pregnancy. But since PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY, it’s good to make sure that people know how to use contraception correctly. Many times when contraceptives like condoms fail, it’s because of incorrect use- like not pinching the tip of the condom, or not taking the pill within a proper time limit every day. If people used them correctly, there would be a smaller failure rate. The Pill is 99.9 percent effective when USED CORRECTLY. THAT’S what you have to teach people.
Would you all, when an eradication treatment is developed, still do not rejoice, since those that take it still have sex outside of marriage? I guess I just don’t understand. I see that some prevention programs are actually working, and am happy people are not dying as quickly, since that is all we can really do until more effective medication is developed. It is like being against the HPV vaccine. An HIV vaccine must be just as horrible for our children and loved ones.
Pip,
Those stats make me want to cry. Especially when you think people are so poor that they are selling kids into prostitution even though their economy is growing. They go into prostitution because the businesses are such profiteers. The managers and execs rake it in while the people are horribly exploited. If they had a decent minimum wage, people wouldn’t feel so desperate. There is some of that here but I think it is so much worse there. This is why I think the MSM is not liberal, they do little to promote just causes and decry exploitive businesses.
Questioning the effectiveness of comdoms
is like saying you should’nt use seatbelts while driving because they sometimes don’t work,or airbags. And many anti-choice people are
truly airbags! Condoms still prevent many
unwanted pregnancies.
Wanting to make contraceptives illegal is
like wanting to remove all seatbelts and
airbags from cars and telling drivers”Just
don’t have accidents”.This is logical?
hippie, I do agree that the incidence of sex workers, rape, and injustice contribute to the spread of AIDS which is very sad. Amnesty International is one of many groups that fight against this. Sadly enough comprehensive campaigns are being opposed by religious groups because of ideological differences. Luckily most of the members of congregations do want these campaigns to happen. Condom use has proved to be effective, so when we encourage their proper use until these human rights abuses are eradicated, we can lower the incidence effectively.
“This is why I think the MSM is not liberal, they do little to promote just causes and decry exploitive businesses.”
I TOTALLY agree which is super frustrating.
I am particularly frustrated about their campaign coverage which focus on petty and nonexistent drama stories rather than important issues and actual differences between the candidates in their policy and ideological stances.
They’d rather talk about dancing dogs than Darfur; they’d rather discuss food, fashion, and celebrities than what injustices are committed by countries (including us) overseas that needs to end.
Ugh.
I think Uganda is on the right track.
http://www.lifenews.com/int343.html
carla, Uganda also used the abc’s.
Abstinence
Be faithful
use CONDOMS
robert,
a lot of people die in car accidents. You are totally right, they should never drive cars, after all safer driving through seat belts doesn’t work all the time….
Dan,
Didn’t see the word condom in that article. Show me.
http://www.avert.org/aidsuganda.htm
“The approach used in Uganda has been named the ABC approach – firstly, encouraging sexual Abstinence until marriage; secondly, advising those who are sexually active to Be faithful to a single partner or to reduce their number of partners; and finally, especially if you have more than one sexual partner, always use a Condom. A number of factors helped to encourage people to take up these strategies.”
. The balanced promotion of all of these behaviors is commonly known as the “ABC” approach ? ?A? for abstinence (or delayed sexual initiation among youth), ?B? for being faithful (or reduction in number of sexual partners), and ?C? for correct and consistent condom use, especially for casual sexual activity and other high-risk situations.
http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/global_health/aids/News/abcfactsheet.html
Abstinence and fidelity – cornerstones of the Bush administration’s overseas AIDS prevention programs — may be playing less of a role than previously thought in driving down HIV infection rates in Uganda, where the idea first gained credence, according to new findings presented here Wednesday.
Research from the heavily studied Rakai district in southern Uganda suggests that increased condom use, coupled with premature death among those infected more than a decade ago with the AIDS virus, are primarily responsible for the steady decline in HIV infections in that area.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/02/24/MNG2PBG3VF1.DTL
I had another post after that as well, but since it had 2 more links its on hold until its approved. One from a government website stating Uganda used ABC approach, and also one from a san francisco gate article that stated premature death of those infected with HIV/AIDS and the increased condom use are responsible for the decline of the HIV/AIDS rate there.
Carla,
This was an ACADEMIC Library! Who knows why this was promoted. Interestingly, the health sciences library did NOT participate!
PIP “I can’t make them get out of these kind of jobs, although I simultaneously support programs that help these countries reduce the need for these.”
what? help them reduce the need for prostitution?…
Per Erin:
“Many times when contraceptives like condoms fail, it’s because of incorrect use- like not pinching the tip of the condom,”
***********
…..or when a staple has been shoved though it.
BTW Erin,
Not trying to be rude, but did you practice what you are preaching? How did you wind up pregnant given that you are so educated on the issue of birth control?
Sandy- bad luck and a dishonest partner.
Also a partner who guilted me into not using proper contraception.
Half of it was my fault, half of it was his.
I’ll never repeat that mistake.
what? help them reduce the need for prostitution?…
jasper, I assumed PIP meant reduce the supply of women who “need” prostitution to make ends meet/feed their family/whatever. Prostitution will probably always be around for those who really want it, but decreasing the amount of women who “need” to do it to get by is certainly something everyone can get behind.
Thanks Dan. Everything I have ever read on Uganda said Abstinence Only. hhhhhhmmmmmm
Seat belts and cars…
You want to use analogies? How about guns? I suggest those of you promoting mass production of contraceptives travel to those portions of town suffering from gang violence and hand out bullet-proof vests that are 85% effective. Tell me if you think that’s the kind of effort we should invest in.
Or…we can attempt to reduce the gang violence. You can either try to stop the bleeding or you can try to prevent the wound; I personally go with the latter. The fatal error in your car analogy is that when I enter a car and put on a seat belt, I accept the possibility that I may be in an accident and it may harm me. We see condom distribution as a sex-enabler, not just a disease-preventer, although it is both.
We believe that humanity is strong enough to rise above their deficiencies and temptations. You see that prostitutes are decreasing their levels of STD’s and therefore a solution has been reached. We see that also, and that’s great that less of them suffer from disease, but don’t you think that the best solution would be if there WERE NO PROSTITUTES?
Alex, the main crimes committed by gangs are drug related offenses. However, the war on drugs has been PROVEN to not be working, at all. Yes we are intercepting drugs, by drug prices are still going down and purity is increasing. We would expect to see the exact opposite if the war on drugs was successful. Hard to stop gangs if you cant stop ILLEGAL drugs flowing into your own country, which gangs then handle, sell, etc.
There are various solutions to deal with gangs, but one of the first things that needs to be dealt with in relation to gangs is drugs. The war on drugs has been an abysmal failure and a new strategy needs to be drawn up. Take away drugs, and you take away a gang’s main source of income.
“what? help them reduce the need for prostitution?…”
Yeah, women who are forced into prostitution often have little choice in the matter because they are not equal with men. They need money to support children or have a bad domestic problems at home. Some are forced into the sex trade as a product of war or violence. Alexandra got the right idea.
“he fatal error in your car analogy is that when I enter a car and put on a seat belt, I accept the possibility that I may be in an accident and it may harm me.”
Exactly. If you have sex you should put on a condom or other form of birth control, and accept the possibility you may get pregnant and deal with those consequences without killing the child. You should also know that although condoms greatly reduce the chances of AIDS they are not 100% effective so the best way to avoid it all together is to not have sex until in a committed (AIDS free) relationship. That’s pretty much the gist in these education programs.
“You see that prostitutes are decreasing their levels of STD’s and therefore a solution has been reached. We see that also, and that’s great that less of them suffer from disease, but don’t you think that the best solution would be if there WERE NO PROSTITUTES?’
Er…did you read any of my posts on this matter?
Short and long term goals..
If you see that AIDS is declining with the use of condoms, why do you oppose the simultaneous promotion of condoms while eliminating the need for women to work on the streets?
Agreed Jill. If the madams, pimps and prostitutes were helped out of the “sex trade” then I’m betting the prevalence of HIV would go down scads! Just a thought! But no, let’s enable them!
OK, this comment just really pisses me off.
Married men and women can contract HIV. Children can contract, hell anyone can. Just b/c someone is in the “sex trade” business, DOES NOT mean they are the people “spreading” HIV, and neither are GLBT people either.
Most “new” cases of HIV are comming in from people who slept with their monogomous partner, or from dirty need sharing. Please get your facts straight before you make yourself sound ignorant
Patricia.
“Note, btw, contraceptive advocates no longer discuss condoms in terms of “safe” sex but instead, “safer” sex. Interesting.”
I forgot to note this. It was changed to “safer” because people were complaining that condoms weren’t 100% “safe” and that people were getting the wrong idea…condoms (etc) were never promoted to be 100% safe, but in order to end whatever confusion was being blasted at them they went for “safer.”
“Safety procedures” don’t necessarily work 100% of the time; maybe we should start calling them “safer procedures.”
Oh and more on that car analogy. We know that seat belts help prevent a lot of deaths, but we still try in the long run to make cars and driving safer. Short and long term goals.
Pip,
I do not think that the prostitution statistics were the best example for you to have used. That’s just my opinion, though.
Elizabeth,
the thailand stats were not sex workers, but military draftees.
The stats are still valid, regardless. Condom use has greatly reduced the AIDS rate.
to educate sex workers, madams, and pimps to distribute condoms, and to encourage condom use, has kept the prevalence of HIV among prostitutes below 12%.
That’s not about sex workers? Am I missing something here?
Educate yourself!
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#aidsrace
AIDS/HIV is more prevalent in African American Women. There are more cases diagnose for their ethinicty/gender each year than any other race or gender.
Also, just so you know: In California, if a female wants to be intiated into a gang, one way she can get in is to be “sexed in”. The gang members make her have sex, with a boy known to be HIV positive with absolutely no form of protection.
In California, if a female wants to be intiated into a gang, one way she can get in is to be “sexed in”. The gang members make her have sex, with a boy known to be HIV positive with absolutely no form of protection.
And HOW is condom use going to help THAT exactly? If they’re making her..I’m sure they’re making her not use protection as well. No matter how many condoms you put out there..you can’t stop crazy people.
I am not saying a condom will help in that case Elizabeth.
Part of the problem here is that god afwul AO education people are teaching are youth. Not to mention, the people contracting HIV/AIDS more, are the ones that do not attend a great school, and there is probably no sex/health class offered. If there is, it’s AO Education. They dont know that using a condom will lower their risk significantly, b/c no one has ever told them so.
“Most “new” cases of HIV are comming in from people who slept with their monogomous partner…”
—————————————
HUH??? Did I miss something here…A husband and wife having sex only with each other suddenly get infected with HIV?
Haha, I think the ACTUAL problem midnite is that parents don’t actually PARENT their children and EXPECT the school’s to do it for them. That’s where people make their mistake..by thinking that society is going to teach their kids values and morals. If you look at society through a completely innocent point of view you would see that you would want NONE of those people teaching your kids how to behave. I know. I see it everyday. The things I see people trying to teach kids make my skin crawl. Schools need to teach our kids how to read, write, and add..that’s IT.
Sandy- bad luck and a dishonest partner.
Also a partner who guilted me into not using proper contraception.
Half of it was my fault, half of it was his.
I’ll never repeat that mistake.
Posted by: Erin at January 28, 2008 11:36 AM
Erin,
Thanks for your honesty. I am really not trying to pick on you, just understand. How could someone guilt you into not using proper contraception? You always use the bodily autonomy argument. It’s your body. You gave up your bodily autonomy by not using proper birth control.
Sandy- it’s rather common for guys to complain about condom use. I liked him, he said he was sterile, and I knew he was clean, so to try and make things better for him, I didn’t insist on condom usage, and even though I stayed on the pill, I was a bit careless, because I trusted him. It was a stupid mistake.
Condoms still prevent many unwanted pregnancies. Wanting to make contraceptives illegal is like wanting to remove all seatbelts and airbags from cars and telling drivers “Just don’t have accidents”.This is logical?
Robert, indeed not, although let me quibble a bit with your analogy.
Seatbelts and airbags don’t really reduce the rate of accidents, do they? Seems to me they reduce the amount and frequency of injuries to those wearing them, should an accident occur.
From there, the analogy is straightforward – birth control measures reduce the rate of pregnancies, and the safety measures reduce the rate of injuries. Neither is 100% effective, and should the unwanted situation occur, bodily injury or pregnancy (by definition we’re talking about pregnancies which aren’t desired – those which would be ended), then a remedy would be sought, medical treatment in both cases.
No different from situations where no preventative measures were used at all. What is changed is the rate of incidence.
Your point is a good one – it’s silly to say that banning contraception is a good thing just because it’s not perfect, same as for seatbelts, airbags, etc.
Doug
The gang members make her have sex, with a boy known to be HIV positive with absolutely no form of protection.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That’s never happened.
Laura, it has. There are also forced sex favors in general, or gangbangs for initiation. Its all ridiculous.
Laura, it has. There are also forced sex favors in general, or gangbangs for initiation. Its all ridiculous.
Posted by: Dan at January 28, 2008 4:18 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That part is true, the HIV part isn’t.
It’s a urban legend that was launched by an Ohio-based Aryan Nations faction. Google “gang initiation urban legends.”
FetusFascist
Actually, no it is not an “urban legend”. I did a research paper on female gang members last semester, and I found 6 peer reviewed articles that stated the same fact. There was an interview of a female who had gone through that intiation, and became HIV positive after her intiation.
I was reading thru my January issue of “Glamour” magazine, and the ad for the Mirena IUD on p. 112 gives some stats about contraception. According to this, the male latex condom results in a 14% pregnancy rate with typical use, and the lowest expected rate of pregnancy is 3% with perfect use. On the flip side, NFP results in a 25% pregnancy rate with typical use and 1-9% pregnancy rate with perfect use. Withdrawal has a 19% pregnancy rate with typical use, and the best expected pregnancy rate there is 4%. So theoretically and practically, condoms are best at preventing pregnancy, even if they are faulty. Now, I know this comes from Guttmacher, but take a look:
“Nearly eight in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (43% are Protestant, 27% Catholic and 8% another religion). Among all women aged 15
PiP, you’re speaking of a specific small class of people that earns $ from sex, not the general population which should be taught to abstain/be faithful.
Posted by: Jill Stanek at January 28, 2008 8:53 AM
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Respectfully, this is your opinion. People who engage in consensual fornication or adultery are not violating anyone else’s rights (except maybe their spouses). Obviously, the general population ought to be aware of the dangers of having sex with more than one person, but beyond that, a girl’s sex life is her own business.
I think Paris and Brittany ought to have to wear panties, but that doesn’t give me the right to superglue six-year-olds into their hanes-her-way.
If the madams, pimps and prostitutes were helped out of the “sex trade” then I’m betting the prevalence of HIV would go down scads!
Posted by: Patricia at January 28, 2008 9:41 AM
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If people quit soliciting prostitution, madams and pimps wouldn’t have a market. People would still have premarital sex, and they would still contract STDs. Junkies would still shoot up, and HIV would still be spreading.
what? help them reduce the need for prostitution?…
Posted by: jasper at January 28, 2008 11:11 AM
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Jasper! That is the best idea you have had all day!!
“That’s not about sex workers?”
In Thailand the one from 12-3%? That is not sex workers, that is military draftees. The draftees have had multiple partners though and access to sex workers. It shows the other side of the coin, an apologies for not addressing that I sort of lumped it all together.
Condoms! Condoms! Condoms! the solution to life’s problems!
Jasper, no one is claiming that condoms are a solution to AIDS. PIP and SamanthaT make a good point in that until we can eliminate the problems that make AIDS rampant in certain areas (societal subjugation of women among them, causing women to sell themselves for pennies), we need to slow its spread. Condoms help. They don’t cure anything…just keep the transmission rate lower.
Many men (especially in those countries) don’t like to use condoms…
Midnite..you will have to forgive FF because she believes anything she reads on the Internet.
I honestly didn’t know that girls were “sexed into” gangs..that’s crazy. But then again, so is the whole gang lifestyle.
I think Paris and Brittany ought to have to wear panties, but that doesn’t give me the right to superglue six-year-olds into their hanes-her-way.
I do believe that flashing/nudity in public IS a crime….so the police can come and make people put on clothes. I mean I don’t know cause I’ve never tried it but I’m pretty sure they CAN make you wear clothes in public.
Elizabeth at January 28, 2008 10:48 PM
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Haha, they can, in general, enforce a law against public indecency or something of the sort. I was referring to the instances when the paparazzi flashed pictures of all these girls getting out of their cars or off of boats in dresses under which they were wearing no undergarments. I’m not sure what the particulars are of indecency laws — maybe it has to be unintentional? — but as far as I know none of them were arrested. They just ended up on Entertainment Tonight. Kind of like Janice Jackson at the Super Bowl that time.
Midnite,
Most “new” cases of HIV are coming in from people who slept with their monogamous partner,
Sweetheart, don’t get mad, but where did the “partner” get the HIV?
Somebody in the mix had to be doing something they shouldn’t have been doing.
Children get HIV from a parent who got it from somewhere. If the mother was monogamous and got it from the father, where did he get it? If she was raped, the rapist got it from somewhere.
I would have to disagree that prostitution doesn’t play a significant role. Unfortunately, innocent bystanders are paying the price.
Erin,
Sandy- it’s rather common for guys to complain about condom use. I liked him, he said he was sterile, and I knew he was clean, so to try and make things better for him, I didn’t insist on condom usage, and even though I stayed on the pill, I was a bit careless, because I trusted him. It was a stupid mistake.
Also not trying to attack you here, but the point of you being “educated” is one we are always trying to make. You knew all the ins and outs. You knew you weren’t taking the pill properly. You knew that you might become pregnant. How are you not responsible for the life that you created? How is this not consent?
And how would MORE education have helped?
Why did your daughter have to pay for your admitted “stupidity”?
And if you trusted him enough to believe he was sterile, why didn’t you trust him enough with the child you created.
Don’t you see how a**backwards that sounds? I trusted him with my health, my body, my heart…but no way was I trusting him with our child?
These are the questions we are saying you must ask BEFORE you have sex. If I get pregnant, do I trust this man to stay with me for the rest of my life and raise the child? If not, then you don’t know him well enough to get into bed with him. THIS is what we mean by responsibility. Forgoing accepting the long term consequences for the short term gratification is what 2 year olds do. Mature adults look at the long term, and make sound judgments based on the future and not just the “I want it and I want it now!” criteria.
Why are you so sure it won’t happen again? What is different that you wouldn’t “trust” another guy?
Many men (especially in those countries) don’t like to use condoms…
Posted by: jasper at January 28, 2008 10:42 PM
*****
And THAT’S an excuse? Many men in THIS country don’t like to use condoms…and I’m assuming you’re one of them, as you are Catholic. While they don’t like using them, on the off chance that a man DOES in those countries, it’s a small victory for the woman who might not get AIDS that day because of that little piece of latex. Saying that they don’t like to use condoms, and it’s pointless to give it to them, is throwing caution to the wind while the real problems leading to the need for risky sexual behavior are not being solved quickly enough. Again, I’m sure that while many men there don’t like the thought of using a condom, I’m sure they’ve also heard of AIDS. And I think they’d rather avoid the latter if at all possible when sleeping around. Wouldn’t you be happy if one woman was spared HIV because the man she happened to sleep with that day for money used a condom? We can’t make them all use them…but some will. And those are little victories for the health of women in these countries. :P
Lyssie,
seems like they are treating HIV like a punishment for having sex outside of marriage.
seems like they are treating HIV like a punishment for having sex outside of marriage.
pleeeeeeeeease, pip, that is the most ridiculous thing you have said as of late.
seems like they are treating HIV like a punishment for having sex outside of marriage.
No PIP,
Not a punishment…a CONSEQUENCE. Just like pregnancy is a consequence.
MK- I did take responsibility. I paid for the abortion procedure and took time out of a busy college schedule to have my pregnancy terminated. It’s not a matter of not trusting someone with a child, it’s a matter of ‘wanting’ a child. I didn’t want a child. Neither did he.
I will never again have sex without proper contraception.
Also, it’s GREAT to ask those questions before you have sex! It’s NOT a**backwards to want to have a loving sexual relationship without marriage or children.
More education wouldn’t have helped me- I made a bad decision. But because of the knowledge I had, I was able to MAKE that decision. That’s the difference between someone who knows the ins and outs of contraception and someone who doesn’t.
. I didn’t want a child. Neither did he.
Actually, Danny admitted that he was going through post abortion grief the last time he was here.
I know he wasn’t perfect, but I do believe him when he said that.
Danny was full of more crap than a clogged toilet. He was and is a pathological liar. He thrives on injecting drama into his own life and having other people feel pity for him.
Dan takes attention where he can get it. Also, if he is, uh, not his uterus. I don’t remember him ever getting his rear out of bed to hold back my hair while I vomited in the toilet for a few weeks.
PIP….I kind of agree with both you and MK, half and half. While I don’t believe that some view HIV as a “punishment” for sex, I do see it as a consequence. However, I also believe that some see it as a consequence they should “live with” instead of trying to prevent. They seem to shun prevention while not doing enough to stop the causes of the behavior in the first place. Condoms are not a cure…they’re a treatment for a problem not yet solved by those so vehemently against their use. They’ll slow the spread and save some lives, but the real solution is slow in coming.
Isn’t this akin to Jill’s incrementalism approach? Just because we can’t save every one of them, we won’t take steps to save each one we can? These women are human beings, and condoms, being an incremental step in helping safeguard their health, are part of working toward the solution. If we can save them from the burning building (in Jill’s words), we should do it, even if we can’t save some near the top floors. Some lives are better than none. Period.
Erin,
More education wouldn’t have helped me- I made a bad decision. But because of the knowledge I had, I was able to MAKE that decision. That’s the difference between someone who knows the ins and outs of contraception and someone who doesn’t.
So you are against abstinence only education, because women will have sex anyway, (their choice) and end up pregnant, but you are NOT against CSE even tho those women will choose to ignore said education and end up pregnant?????
Okay.
More education wouldn’t have helped me- I made a bad decision. But because of the knowledge I had, I was able to MAKE that decision. That’s the difference between someone who knows the ins and outs of contraception and someone who doesn’t.
It’s too bad you make your baby pay for your bad decisions.
Danny was full of more crap than a clogged toilet. He was and is a pathological liar. He thrives on injecting drama into his own life and having other people feel pity for him.
Erin,
I could see that from the first time I ever read any of his posts. How long did it take you to realize that the guy was a pathological liar. If you really believed that, how could you trust that he wasn’t HIV positive, or cheating on you with others etc……. You seem like an intelligent young woman what gives???
Lyssie, that is what I was trying to say.
It’s like instead of helping out some of these women before we get the societal problems solved they are waiting for this to magically happen. Meanwhile women and men are getting AIDS but there is still no desire to help stop the spread by teaching condom use. Then it’s “well you decided to have sex outside of marriage, that’ll learn ya!” HIV is a consequence of irresponsible sex. If you don’t want to teach them how to have sex responsibly how can you tell people you are helping?
I’ve already elaborated on contraceptives in the US and the pro-life movement several times, you know how I view it.
Yep, PIP…it’s a cryin’ shame…
People will b*tch and moan about people using condoms when they could actually help more in the realm of making the need for them unnecessary. You give them condoms AND hope for a better future…they act if we just want to throw contraception at them and run.
*hugs to PIP* I didn’t mean to say that you were wrong…I’ve pretty much always agreed with your common-sense approach. :)
awww *hugs back* thanks for understanding :)
Sandy- I was far from home, unhappy, and terribly lonely. I was desperate to feel like SOMEONE cared about me.
MK- I made a bad decision. The only other sexual partner I’ve ever had and I had a very cautious and incredibly fulfilling sex life. We were much closer and more intimate than Dan and I were. Even if the person only does it half the time, it’s still better odds than nothing.