Have you noticed that sexual freedom advocates, some on this site, are recommending two forms of “protection” these days, such as hormonal contraceptives with a condom back-up? It’s no wonder. It’s not just pregnancy one has to worry about.
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“Sexual freedom advocate?”
Has there been a “sexual freedom advocate” in this country since 1988?
Even Planned Parenthood touts abstinence and monogamy as the wise lifestyle choices.
(Jill, if someone tells you that “free love is groovy,” you’ve walked through that pesky time warp in your kitchen again!)
Laura,
Please cite your source for your ridiculous PP comment, please!
While PP may teach the existence of abstinence and ways to use it (NFP) on their website, abstinence really is meaningless if it isn’t taught in the context the meaning of marriage and chastity. I mean, if one can have any kind of sex with any number of beings at any time and there is nothing wrong with it (or any negative consequences) vs. not having sex, why would anyone choose not to have sex? Abstinence in the context of sexual liberation and sexual freedom is pointless. So I really don’t buy into the whole “PP teaches abstinence” because abstinance is more than just not having sex play.
Laura,
Please cite your source for your ridiculous PP comment, please!
Posted by: AB Laura at December 3, 2007 11:04 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/birth-control-pregnancy/birth-control/continuous-abstinence.htm
Even Planned Parenthood touts abstinence and monogamy as the wise lifestyle choices.
Just something to clarify about PP:
From http://www.fightpp.org/show.cfm?page=basic
Does Planned Parenthood encourage abstinence?
Planned Parenthood argues that every young person is capable of making “responsible decisions” regarding sex, birth control, and abortion. It opposes all legislation that would ensure parental involvement in a child’s decisions on such matters. “As part of its ongoing advocacy to protect and enhance reproductive rights for all Americans,” Planned Parenthood began a campaign to “safeguard minors’ access to abortion.” It may give your minor children birth control, even via invasive means such as injections, without your knowledge or consent. In many states Planned Parenthood may commit an abortion on your daughter without your ever knowing.
Planned Parenthood’s First Things First program is designed to reduce by half the number of teens who “become pregnant and give birth.” Examine this rhetoric. The goal regards teenagers who get pregnant and give birth. Planned Parenthood seeks to reduce childbearing, not sexual activity that results in pregnancy. This may be accomplished with no change in sexual behavior if the number of abortions committed by Planned Parenthood continues to climb.
Does Planned Parenthood favor abstinence education?
Planned Parenthood teaches that there are no “rights” or “wrongs” with any sexual activity so long as there are no “victims.” It vehemently opposes sex education programs that focus on abstinence and has filed lawsuits against school districts that implement such programs.
Planned Parenthood claims to offer “value-neutral” sexuality education. But it has insisted upon the implementation of its brand of “comprehensive sex education” programs for decades and the problems have become worse. And when the problems get worse, Planned Parenthood demands more money. The cycle never ends.
Planned Parenthood essentially argues that any taxpayer funds not spent on its programs are wasted. It opposes the federal abstinence education program, but failing to kill it, Planned Parenthood applied for and received some of the money. It is important to remember that Planned Parenthood’s definition of “abstinence” is vastly different from that of Americans who live outside the population control industry. Planned Parenthood literature promotes “outercourse,” which is defined as any form of sexual behavior that cannot lead to pregnancy. Planned Parenthood argues that outercourse may be considered abstinence depending “entirely on each individual’s definition.” The use of such a perverted definition is clearly not the kind of message intended by the legislation that created the abstinence program.
Exactly, Bethany. Even though in theory it teaches that there exists this option called abstinence, it becomes an absurdity in the context of sexual license.
From PP’s website (Laura’s cited source): (BTW, these are the first two paragraphs on under this topic, which is usually about as much as a young teen will read)
Continuous Abstinence
What Abstinence Is and How It Works
There are two types of abstinence. Both prevent pregnancy. Both keep sperm out of the vagina.
Periodic abstinence is a way that sexually active women prevent pregnancy. They become familiar with their fertility patterns. Then they abstain from vaginal intercourse on the days they think they could become pregnant.
————————-
LMAO…but, whoops! just in case your wrong…we’re here to help!!!
Thanks, Laura, for citing your source. Hardly sounds like “tauting” abstinence, but whatever!
very good comments by Bobby and Bethany.
that poor emoticon is going to laugh himself to death and rightly so!
PP touting abstinence- what a joke!
Yes, Planned Parenthood is more than happy to state that abstinence is the only 100% effective way to avoid pregnancy and STDs.
You’re just mad that they don’t tout your frigid, joyless, genderless Jesus agenda.
No, Laura…we’re just mad because they promote sexual promiscuousnes in young, impressionable teens thus causing millions of innocent children to lose their lives and millions of teens either to lose their ability to reproduce later in life, suffer from depression, have suicidal thoughts, commit suicide, suffer and/or die from STD’s, lose their self-worth thus being attracted to abusers later in life, etc. That’s all.
No, Laura…we’re just mad because they promote sexual promiscuousnes in young, impressionable teens
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excuse me?
If a pamphlet from Planned Parenthood can overide 15 YEARS of your childrearing, then you have truly failed as a parent.
Don’t blame Planned Parenthood for your dysfunctional family. (This also holds true for MTV and video games…)
Hey everyone, my boyfriend becomes an uncle on Wednesday (his sister’s baby is already huge, so she opted for a C-section on Wednesday). I’m so excited! :D
Woo hoo! Congrats, Lyssie!
Excuse ME? How on earth do you figure that PP has over-rided anything and where do you come up with an assumption of me having 15 years of childrearing or that I even have a family? What, Laura, I can’t be concerned about the next generation that will be leading our country politically and in business?
When you open your eyes and see that STD’s and abortions are on the rise, obviously, PP and the likes are doing something WRONG. The next generation will have to pay for the BS propaganda that PP and it’s likes spew forth. And yes, that concerns me. Unlike you, I care about children’s lives.
BTW…when MTV & video games start profiting from abortions, I’ll be all over their cases, also.
Congratulations, Lyssie!
AB Laura, great points!
Laura,
There is a difference between promoting abstinence and acknowledging abstinence.
I would say that PP acknowledges or notes that abstinence prevents pregnancy and STD’s and that some choose it.
Promoting abstinence is where you discuss at length ways to help someone commit to abstinence and give them the tools to do it.
One or two lines explaining the word abstinence is not promoting it.
I believe that most who abstain do so because they feel loved anyway and don’t need a sexual relationship that is not based on a commitment. If your parents and family and friends love you anyway, then there is less external pressure. My observation of young women (from years of teaching high school) is that those who are actively pursuing meaningful goals in their lives and whose families’ validate and value her efforts are nearly immune to the types of guys who just want one thing. Those young men whose social group values women and mothers and marriage are also least likely to pressure a young woman for sex because their families keep them busy with opportunites in sports, art, music, and community activities. Basically they are too busy doing good things, and they aren’t so likely to need to look for love because they already have it.
Thanks, Bethany! I love your smiley..he’s just too cute!
Thanks Laura, I think he makes a good point too, don’t you? :D
Bethany,
Absolutely! It’s good to know that “someone” is laughing just as hard as I do!!!
Go to the Planned Parenthood site. They have ALL KINDS of instructions on how to practice abstinence. (My niece actually was asked up on stage during the presentation at her Middle School and did a demonstration on how to say “NO!” with a role-playing Planned Parenthood counselor. It was priceless. She was mortified…)
Here’s part of the program:
Staying Abstinent
Before you need to make a sexual decision
Women and men need to be clear about their reasons and values to stay abstinent. When you are in a sexual situation, it helps to be able to remember why you made the decision to be abstinent in the first place. How can you stay abstinent? Think about your answers to these questions:
Am I aware of situations that could make staying abstinent difficult for me? Can I avoid them?
I know alcohol and other drugs can affect my judgment and decision-making ability. How do I feel about not using them?
Are there people in my life I can talk to about my decision to abstain from sex play? Will they be supportive?
When you need to make a sexual decision
Abstinence can be difficult for some people, especially in a sexual situation.
Remind yourself why you chose to be abstinent.
Think about the consequences.
Don’t reevaluate your decision to stay abstinent during sexual situations
Taken straight from their adult website..But funny how you left the part that I posted off…you remember, the first two paragraphs that IF a young teen were to go on this site, they would see first? Here…I’ll post it again for you:
Continuous Abstinence
What Abstinence Is and How It Works
There are two types of abstinence. Both prevent pregnancy. Both keep sperm out of the vagina.
Periodic abstinence is a way that sexually active women prevent pregnancy. They become familiar with their fertility patterns. Then they abstain from vaginal intercourse on the days they think they could become pregnant.
Source: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/birth-control-pregnancy/birth-control/continuous-abstinence.htm
And Laura, I never said that PP was stupid. In fact, I think they are geniuses at word play and subliminal messages. If anyone needs a lesson on how make money off of the naivety of a child, I would send them DIRECTLY over to PP’s website. No, wait…I wouldn’t..I would rather kill myself first than hurt a child! But that’s just me….
Taken straight from their adult website..But funny how you left the part that I posted off…you remember, the first two paragraphs that IF a young teen were to go on this site, they would see first? Here…I’ll post it again for you:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don’t understand. That information is accurate. What’s your problem with it?
“My niece actually was asked up on stage during the presentation at her Middle School and did a demonstration on how to say “NO!” with a role-playing Planned Parenthood counselor. It was priceless. She was mortified”
Posted by: Laura at December 3, 2007 2:19 PM
Why was she mortified?
Anyway, I think there needs to be more emphasis on training young men that they should not be soliciting the young women that they know and date. We have seen these purity parties for women. How about some for the men? Men need to abstinence training as much if not more than women.
Yes, of course it is true…and YES, you do understand, Laura. Please. I’ll ask you this…were you or are you, without being on birth control, 100% sure you know when you’re ovulating?
How, possibly, can a 14 year old be familiar a fertility pattern? I’m not! If I’m sick, or don’t eat right, it throws it off. The weather throws it off, the foods I eat throw it off…moods will even throw it off. Do you undersand yet? Or do you need more information on how NOTHING about the CONCEPT of this STATEMENT is accurate?
But Hippie, men can’t have abortions and can’t “donate” fetal tissue for experimental purposes!
There are two types of abstinence. Both prevent pregnancy. Both keep sperm out of the vagina.
Periodic abstinence is a way that sexually active women prevent pregnancy. They become familiar with their fertility patterns. Then they abstain from vaginal intercourse on the days they think they could become pregnant.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I am sure that periodic abstinence does not keep sperm out of the vagina and it has a failure rate greater than zero.
Here’s more from the Planned Parenthood article on abstinence for teens:
“Easier Said than Done?
Sure, it’s not always going to be easy. You may find it hard to abstain for long periods of time, and you may even find yourself in a situation where you have a heat-of-the-moment decision to end your abstinence without being prepared to protect yourself against pregnancy or infection. In which case, having a back up plan, like carrying condoms, is important even if you are abstinent………………………………
One day your relationship may change, and your decision to be abstinent may change, too. Just remember: if you don’t want to be abstinent anymore, check out your other birth control options, and get the info on how to protect yourself from infection.
Yeah, really sounds like they’re “touting” abstinence as a wise decision, promoting it and trying to convince teens to make the choice to be abstinent. Riiiiiight.
What it really sounds like to me is that they’re just telling the teens what abstinence is, then saying, “Well, you can give it a try, but we know you’ll have sex anyway, so be sure to have that backup plan ready!”
I am sure that periodic abstinence does not keep sperm out of the vagina and it has a failure rate greater than zero.
Not to mention it does nothing to prevent STD’s.
truly disturbing…
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/get-involved/take-political-action/pro-choice-clergy/stem-cell-13414.htm
Laura, I saw that the other day and was very disturbed. I shouldn’t be surprised anymore, honestly…but you know, it’s just amazing how truly horrible these people are. Going to the extent of getting these “clergy” to pronounce that God is okay with abortion and “what people do with “their” embryos” is just truly sick.
Bethany,
I think it ties in with their “need” for abortions!
What about their teen site http://www.teenwire.com? Surely if PP is serious about promoting abstinence as a healthy choice, it would be given serious face-time on their teen site. At least 50% right? Or maybe 25%? Check this out–It is not mentioned once on their homepage! The menu options are:
birth control & safer sex
pregnancy, parenting & adoption
infections & diseases
lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgender
body
sex
relationships, friends & family
emotions
abortion
school & careers
entertainment
activism & issues
teen advisory group
I looked under the first heading, “birth control and safer sex” which I assumed would include abstinence, and it does. If you find the “Articles” section, then click on the small print sub-head “Birth Control Options for Teens” “Continuous Abstinence”, is the first heading. But, what’s this? Under the heading “Birth Control Methods Not Recommended for Teens” we find “Fertility Awareness Methods”. Isn’t that the “periodic abstinence” brought up earlier in this discussion?
If a teen went to teenwire.com for information on staying abstinent, they would not be able to find it because it is not there. They might not even be able to find a mention of abstinence, because it is listed under “birth control and safer sex.” To me, this is not “touting” (Laura’s word) abstinence.
Posted by: EH at December 3, 2007 5:38 PM
“I looked under the first heading, “birth control and safer sex” which I assumed would include abstinence, and it does.”
“If a teen went to teenwire.com for information on staying abstinent, they would not be able to find it because it is not there.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ummmm… you just REALLY contradicted yourself.
Planned Parenthood pitches abstinence every bit as much as it pitches any other birth control/safe sex practice.
Their is information on what abstinence is. There is not information on how to stay abstinent.
Sorry, I mean “there” is, not “their” is.
Their is information on what abstinence is. There is not information on how to stay abstinent.
Posted by: EH at December 3, 2007 6:13 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You mean like THIS information – taken straight from the Planned Parenthood site?:
Staying Abstinent
Before you need to make a sexual decision
Women and men need to be clear about their reasons and values to stay abstinent. When you are in a sexual situation, it helps to be able to remember why you made the decision to be abstinent in the first place. How can you stay abstinent? Think about your answers to these questions:
Am I aware of situations that could make staying abstinent difficult for me? Can I avoid them?
I know alcohol and other drugs can affect my judgment and decision-making ability. How do I feel about not using them?
Are there people in my life I can talk to about my decision to abstain from sex play? Will they be supportive?
When you need to make a sexual decision
Abstinence can be difficult for some people, especially in a sexual situation.
Remind yourself why you chose to be abstinent.
Think about the consequences.
Don’t reevaluate your decision to stay abstinent during sexual situations
No I mean THIS information, taken from teenwire.com (as I stated)
“Continuous Abstinence
If you choose continuous abstinence, you will not have sex play with a partner. This will keep sperm from joining egg.
Effectiveness
* 100 percent
* prevents sexually transmitted infections
Advantages
* no medical or hormonal side effects
* no prescription necessary
Possible Disadvantages
* People may find it difficult to abstain for long periods of time.
* Women and men often end their abstinence without being prepared to protect themselves against pregnancy or sexually transmitted infections.
Advantages for Teens
Sexual relationships present physical and emotional risks. Abstinence is a very good way to postpone taking those risks until you are able to handle them.
Women who abstain until their 20s
OK, Laura…try finding that on teenwire.com…not from the site teens won’t go to! And again, if they do, they will only read the first two paragraphs you omitted AGAIN:
Source:(from PP’s website that teens don’t go on:)
Continuous Abstinence
What Abstinence Is and How It Works
There are two types of abstinence. Both prevent pregnancy. Both keep sperm out of the vagina.
Periodic abstinence is a way that sexually active women prevent pregnancy. They become familiar with their fertility patterns. Then they abstain from vaginal intercourse on the days they think they could become pregnant.
Here…I found it!!! from teenwire.com
Continuous Abstinence
If you choose continuous abstinence, you will not have sex play with a partner. This will keep sperm from joining egg.
Effectiveness
100 percent
prevents sexually transmitted infections
Advantages
no medical or hormonal side effects
no prescription necessary
Possible Disadvantages
People may find it difficult to abstain for long periods of time.
Women and men often end their abstinence without being prepared to protect themselves against pregnancy or sexually transmitted infections.
Advantages for Teens
Sexual relationships present physical and emotional risks. Abstinence is a very good way to postpone taking those risks until you are able to handle them.
Women who abstain until their 20s
What makes you think that teens don’t go to the Planned Parenthood site? It’s what you get when you google Planned Parenthood.
Oh yeah, those abstinence lessons are really erutite: DON’T BOINK.
There will be a quiz tomorrow. If you pull an all-nighter you might remember all of that.
Laura,
You’re just mad that they don’t tout your frigid, joyless, genderless Jesus agenda.
Jesus was a man. I have six kids. Can’t imagine that makes me frigid. Three of them no longer live at home. That takes care of the “Joy”…so you’re wrong on all counts. (Except they are coming home for Christmas…so maybe you have a point about “joyless”…of course they’ll go back to school again, I joy will come back…)
As to genderless, it’s not us that want women to dress and act like men and men to act like women, so that no one can tell the difference.
EH, sorry..I posted that again to make a point….I still am not seeing where PP shows a teen HOW to stay “continually abstinent”. I love the first sentence, though…it kindof reminds me of something a parent would tell a teen that WOULD make them want to rebel. “YOU WILL NOT…”
Can’t see many teens reading beyond that sentence. How absolutely genius of PP!
LOL
As to genderless, it’s not us that want women to dress and act like men and men to act like women, so that no one can tell the difference.
Posted by: mk at December 3, 2007 7:02 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What the hell are you talking about?
Why can’t some people except that there are some of us who choose to believe in God? Why is this such a huge problem for some. I don’t care if you want to worship a watermelon. I really don’t care if you are agnostic. Why can’t we choose to believe PCers?
Laura said, “What makes you think that teens don’t go to the Planned Parenthood site? It’s what you get when you google Planned Parenthood.”
Uh-huh….and then it brings you straight to the PP site, then you click on “teens” and you are then prompted to “teenwire.com”.
Or, maybe they get that info from the cute little pamphlets they hand out to teens?
I thought it was about CHOICE. Some of you are downright hostile over people who believe in God.
Heather,
Are you seeing a trend, here?
yes!
I went to the teenwire site. There’s TONS of information about abstinence:
http://www.teenwire.com/infocus/2000/if-20001025p087a.php
Also, I know plenty of PCers who do believe in God. Did you think belief in him was limited to the RTL crowd?
There’s a difference in “believing in Him” and “believing Him”, Heather.
Laura said, “I went to the teenwire site. There’s TONS of information about abstinence:”
You do realize that your link was an article written October, 2000, don’t you?
AB Laura, I wasn’t disagreeing with you. I was trying to point this out to Laura. I thought these people were pro choice.
You do realize that your link was an article written October, 2000, don’t you?
Posted by: AB Laura at December 3, 2007 7:17 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your point?
I also meant that some women who have had abortions DO believe in God. They did before they aborted.
I have a friend who was having sex with three different guys all around the same time. I don’t think any of them really knew about each other. A few weeks later she finally got it down to one. Her “boyfriend” She got really really pissed off when she found out he was cheating on her. I tried to have sympathy for her but really couldn’t.
Laura,
And when you type in keyword “abstinence”, the first article that comes up is this one:
http://www.teenwire.com/infocus/2007/if-20070313p479-homophobia.php?print=yes
Written this year!!!
So, the first one a teen would click on would give them all of the negatives about abstinence, and they would associate abstinence with the LGBT students. Probably wouldn’t look much further than that!
Again, PP is genius!
“They become familiar with their fertility patterns. Then they abstain from vaginal intercourse on the days they think they could become pregnant.”
Isn’t this what they call Natural Family Planning?
sorry Heather…I must have read that wrong! Get me talking about PP & get REALLY fired up!
AB Laura, I understand. I say “PC” because they have had abortions. Their attitude is “God will forgive me.” *shrugs*
JM,
How ’bout it!!! What a joke…and what they intentionally leave out is this:
Although a couple may make a private choice to use periodic abstinence, just as they might buy condoms, most modern methods of periodic abstinence require careful training by a trained counsellor. Awareness of human fertility can be valuable when a couple is attempting to conceive a child. The method makes considerable demands on the partners, but if well taught
Heather!
HI!
AB Laura,
So I am correct then?
“Who’s having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as “Born-again/Evangelical”.”
JM,
I believe so!
So, the first one a teen would click on would give them all of the negatives about abstinence, and they would associate abstinence with the LGBT students. Probably wouldn’t look much further than that!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not everyone is as slow as you are.
The Gay & Lesbian article is about flaws in the standard abstinence-only curriculum.
There’s plenty of material on both sites that has nothing to do with gay and lesbian teens.
Well AB Laura, many people would argue with you that that method works. Yeah it may require a lot of work to figure out when you are ovulating but it can be done. Yeah a 14 year old would probably not be able to use this method. However most women having abortions are not 14.
Laura,
That’s 111.7%
Better double-check your source!
Laura,
I SAID, “when you type in keyword “abstinence”, the first article that comes up is this one:
http://www.teenwire.com/infocus/2007/if-20070313p479-homophobia.php?print=yes
Which one, Laura…The FIRST one. This is the FIRST article they will stumble across, which, if they are not LGBT, will hit the back arrow SO FAST, their heads will spin…they will never want to read about abstinence again!
I can type slower for you if you’d think it will help!
Laura,
That’s 111.7%
Better double-check your source!
Posted by: AB Laura at December 3, 2007 7:42 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not really. The 18% Evangelicals they were talking about were a subset of the Protestant faction.
JM,
I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m 100% sure it does work! I just wouldn’t trust it even 1%! I posted earlier that “If I’m sick, or don’t eat right, it throws it off. The weather throws it off, the foods I eat throw it off…moods will even throw it off…”
When I was, say, 17…I couldn’t tell you when I was ovulating! Many teens have eating disorders, also, that can contribute to changes in their cycle.
I just don’t think it’s a wise choice to tell teens, no matter what age, about this method.
Just my opinion!
:)
AB Laura,
I agree with you, however I still think parents, probably most on this blog tell their kids about this method. When they are 17 or younger. Just an assumption.
Which one, Laura…The FIRST one. This is the FIRST article they will stumble across, which, if they are not LGBT, will hit the back arrow SO FAST, their heads will spin…they will never want to read about abstinence again!
Posted by: AB Laura at December 3, 2007 7:45 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You’re right. I read the first page of the Bible once. They talked funny AND it was over 7 years old. Who reads that stuff?
Teens who want to know about abstinence will find all of the information they need on either of those two sites.
Any teen too slow to find that information is clearly too stupid to operate a doorknob, so we won’t have to worry about them getting loose and having sex.
AB Laura,
What do you use, or plan to use when you have sex either now or in the future, if you don’t mind me asking.
Laura,
Precisely my point. What teen would look towards a PP website for abstinence, anyway. This is what parents (hopefully) teach their kids when they first learn about sex. That being said, they are not looking on PP’s website for info on abstinence. However, if PP would promote abstinence as a headline on their website (because, you know they really want to reduce the # of abortions!) they would actually reiterate what the kid’s parents were saying. Thus, the teen would be more adept to realizing what their parents were saying about abstinence really wasn’t so far-fetched.
If, when I was younger, my mom was to tell me not to touch the top of the stove because it was hot & I would burn my hand…I would have to stick my hand up there just to see what she was hiding from me.
If a teen is going on PP’s website for sex ed., I can guarantee you that the teen is not trusting what their parents are telling them, or their parents are not telling them much at all. Either way, the parents fault, but leave it to PP to promote their “profit-by-abortion” agenda to these poor, uninformed & naive kids.
I just feel that the “void” that the parents leave is the one that PP fills…but to make a profit..that’s the difference.
IMO, PP is nothing more than a legalized child predator that laughs all of the way to the bank.
Hideous, in my book!
JM,
I’m not married at this point, but when and if I do happen to meet “Mr. Right” I’ll let you know!
“If, when I was younger, my mom was to tell me not to touch the top of the stove because it was hot & I would burn my hand…I would have to stick my hand up there just to see what she was hiding from me.”
hahahaha I actually did this. I was like four. I was watching my mom cook. She said “don’t touch the stove its hot” and I touched it. Man did I get a nice surprise!
JM,
Sorry for your burn, but that was funny!
AB Laura,
Ah, don’t worry about it. I don’t really remember much about it. Other than my mom holding my hand under cold water.
JM, HI! Sorry. Had to get off for a minute.
Who’s having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as “Born-again/Evangelical”.”
Posted by: Laura at December 3, 2007 7:36 PM************************************************************************************************************************************************** Well, these women are misguided.
Heather,
How are you?
What do you mean by misguided?
okay. my point is that some pc women think that their abortions will be forgiven. if they repent, then it’s possible. however, some people here bash God/religion constantly. they always seem to think that it’s us “wacko” rtlfers who are religious. i was saying that it isn’t always so.
but also, pro choicers can’t really serve God and remain pc. however, they can still choose to believe.
Just because someone identifies herself as being from a particular background doesn’t mean she adheres to the tenets of that faith. If they attend religious services and put up a christmas tree or a hannukah menorah but don’t follow something like the ten commandments that clearly states not to kill, they are not followers. For people like that, religion is just like joining a social club. Other people really think they have to follow the religious rules when they are members. It is a matter of perception.
Bottom line, just because they say they are religious doesn’t mean they are.
hippie, thank you! that’s it!
heather,
don’t some say the devil believes in God? But the devil doesn’t serve him.
“don’t follow something like the ten commandments that clearly states not to kill, they are not followers.”
So I shouldn’t hunt? I should make sure I water my plants so they don’t die? or I shouldn’t swat that bug thats been buzzing by my ear? Thou shall not kill right?
Pushing a baby out my hoo-ha was a pretty good factor in my choice to NOW stay abstinent til marriage.
Just thought I would lighten the mood a little bit.:)
“Pushing a baby out my hoo-ha was a pretty good factor in my choice to NOW stay abstinent til marriage.”
lol…
JM, I do not even practice any particular religion. My mother is a Protestant. My dad was a Catholic. I had my choice. I lean towards Catholicism. My brother is agnostic. I can tell you one thing. I do believe in God. I really do. It’s not something that you can explain. I guess you do, or you don’t.
I believe that God exists too. But I also understand that they may be no God at all. There is no proof either way. No one can prove that God exists, but no one can prove he doesn’t exist either.
That’s why they call it “faith” JM.
You know I was going to add in there,
“and please don’t give me any of that “its called faith” crap” but i didn’t want to be mean.
I’m not an idiot Elizabeth
By the way Elizabeth,
I just watch my sweet sixteen and thought of you and PIP. :) The girl wasn’t a whinny *beep* I was kind of surprised.
I never called you one JM…but I’m curious as to why you call “faith” crap?
Opps I mean My SUPER Sweet Sixteen, my bad.
She didn’t get a car either. She got a half horse half zebra. WEEEIRD.
Haha yeah JM…sometimes they get a nice one on there. Those are not as fun though..it’s kind of like you watch the show waiting for the crazy girl to blow up.
I guess I shouldn’t call it crap. I apologize.
Elizabeth,
Its funny you say that. Because the whole time I was thinking, “this is boring”
A half horse, half zebra..WHAAA?
Although there was one I saw where the girl actually acknowledged how much something would cost her parents. She said it in a “i’m not sure we should get this because of the cost” way. She was like, “whoa, thats like the cost of a house” but alas whatever it was i’m pretty sure it was at her party.
Ever since the new season of I Love New York has come on, I have been less devoted to My Super Sweet 16….VH1 seems to have better trainwrecks to watch at times.
I know! She said she wanted an exotic animal for her party, I didn’t know she wanted it as a present. It was weird.
I am sadly obsessed with The Hills and Real World. I should be embarrassed.
Did you watch the hills tonight? It was craaaazy. (And yes, now I bow my head in shame as well)
If they attend religious services and put up a christmas tree or a hannukah menorah but don’t follow something like the ten commandments that clearly states not to kill, they are not followers.
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Actually, the holiday tree is an old Pagan custom and is expressly forbidden to Christians in the Bible.
YES! I did! It was crazy indeed. I think we all knew it was going to happen. Better now than when they are already married I suppose. I wonder if Heidi will go crawling back to Lauren.
JM,
“don’t follow something like the ten commandments that clearly states not to kill, they are not followers.”
So I shouldn’t hunt? I should make sure I water my plants so they don’t die? or I shouldn’t swat that bug thats been buzzing by my ear? Thou shall not kill right?
Posted by: JM at December 3, 2007 10:03 PM
That is an interesting point. I asked some religious leaders about that and they said that in the original language, it clearly meant innocent humans and could not be applied to animals, combatants or criminals because other terms were used in those situations.
I wonder if Brody and Lauren will be bf/gf FINALLY. He loves Lauren, I just know it.
I wonder that too. I could not believe Lauren tonight. When she was like, “I don’t understand, what do you want me to say?” GRRR
Hello there, everyone… *taking a break from speech writing*
As if I haven’t procrastinated enough, how is everyone doing? :D
Ugh…I can’t watch television shows….I have this neurosis that if I don’t start out watching the very beginning (pilot episode) of a show, I can’t watch it after the fact at all or I begin to feel hopeless that I’ve missed too much to catch up, and no longer see the point. If I miss a couple of episodes in between, I also just give up. It’s quite depressing. My boyfriend is trying to change this (at least for the series LOST) by making me watch the first couple of seasons on DVD (he sat me down this weekend to watch the first four episodes). Fun fun. I am such a loser. Lol. I have a feeling I would have liked Heroes, Scrubs, and Grey’s Anatomy a lot if I would have started watching from the beginning…I want to watch these shows, but I can’t get over how much I’ve missed.
The only shows this problem doesn’t apply are CSI and CSI:Miami. Gotta have my geek time. :D
I know..Brody was basically saying..”could you please tell me you want me to date JUST you?” And she was being stupid Lauren again. :sigh:
Brody is my brother’s name. :D
Actually, the holiday tree is an old Pagan custom and is expressly forbidden to Christians in the Bible.
Posted by: Laura at December 3, 2007 10:28 PM
Interesting interpretation. Sounds like baloney. If pagans have fruit punch at their religious festival, does that mean christians can’t? What if pagans wear red, or paint their fingernails, or listen to Donna Summer? Does that mean christians can’t?
Most major TV networks will let you watch old episodes. Well usually the last few from the season.
Haha, Lyssie I totally agree..but I didn’t start watching grey’s til halfway through the 2nd season..and I just bought the first season dvd’s..and I’ve been all caught up ever since. It’s never too late to become addicted!
Lauren wants Brody to be the one to say it I think.
I have a netflix subscription. Thats what got be caught up on Heroes.
Heroes is very good by the way. Although I was quite disappointing tonight.
Yeah but he basically DID…he was of course being all “guy” about it and hinting at it..but I mean he basically was telling her..she was just being silly.
*sigh* yes… She was being silly Lauren.
I’m a po’ college student. I’m just scraping by trying to buy presents for loved ones, let alone Netflix (lucky JM…I’m jealous!). Plus the fact that I started my job three and a half weeks ago and they still haven’t paid me….which sucks. No money, no presents. And I blew a lot of money on my roommate this weekend for her birthday (she’s a mutual good friend of both me and my boyfriend, we threw her a HECK of a birthday). I’m a little depressed about money…lol.
Is this “Lyssie’s Problem Night and Sobfest” tonight? I’m a pathetic lout. haha.
but on the bright side, my boyfriend becomes an uncle on Wednesday! His sister needs a C-section because of the enormity of the baby already. She’s even 2 weeks early! (baby was due on the 20th).
Haha Lyssie, I had a c-section!! It’s scary but it will be fine tell her! And tell your bf being an uncle is great fun, my daughter has 3, and they are a blast!
I am not happy about my netflix subscription. I waited a week for a move that never came. So I reported it. They told me they were sending a different movie and its been about five days and haven;t seen it yet. grr
Congrats to your boyfriend by the way!
Oh, I have no doubt that my boyfriend will have fun. He’s being the typical stoic male and trying to cover up his emotional side, but I’ve seen him interact with children at his sister’s baby shower (he was one of the four males present, one of which was a baby). The three adult males were in charge of carrying large presents to the car. :D Then I saw him protecting and playing with a little baby girl who nearly bumped her head on the sharp corner of a table. I tell you what, men playing with babies is a sexy thing. *pounce!!!*
Interesting interpretation. Sounds like baloney. If pagans have fruit punch at their religious festival, does that mean christians can’t? What if pagans wear red, or paint their fingernails, or listen to Donna Summer? Does that mean christians can’t?
Posted by: Anonymous at December 3, 2007 10:41 PM
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No, I’m dead serious.
I have really warped neighbors three doors down (they hand out freaky, sinister Chick tracts at Halloween) and they always give me grief about my tree. I really enjoy this so I go out of my way to torment them. I may burn a goat this year.
Anyway, this is the Bible verse they stick on my picture window in the middle of the night ALL THROUGH DECEMBER:
Jeremiah 10:2-4 The King James Version reads: “Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen…. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.”
“I just watch my sweet sixteen and thought of you and PIP. :) The girl wasn’t a whinny *beep* I was kind of surprised.”
LOL! One of the bitchier ones was when this dancer chick was having a quincinera and made her friends memorize a dance and then threw a hissy fit when they weren’t getting the moves as fast as she was. And then she whined that her parents had “enough money” to do such and such. I think she got a car or something (yeah, on her 15th bday!) but she complained that it wasn’t the car she wanted.
haha its good to see that they are not all b*tches.
So I’m TOTALLY getting into Project Runway Canada (hosted by Iman). It seems like they have better characters, better designers, and more creative challenges than PR4 here in the U.S. But Iman is totally meaner than Heidi. It’s on the youtubes, you all should check it out!
Oh yeah, and my christian morality paper is crap :(
I’m picking at it and I just can’t get the order of my paragraphs to flow right. Thats what you get when you write in in pieces I guess.
Laura,
Precisely my point. What teen would look towards a PP website for abstinence, anyway. This is what parents (hopefully) teach their kids when they first learn about sex. That being said, they are not looking on PP’s website for info on abstinence. However, if PP would promote abstinence as a headline on their website (because, you know they really want to reduce the # of abortions!) they would actually reiterate what the kid’s parents were saying. Thus, the teen would be more adept to realizing what their parents were saying about abstinence really wasn’t so far-fetched.
If, when I was younger, my mom was to tell me not to touch the top of the stove because it was hot & I would burn my hand…I would have to stick my hand up there just to see what she was hiding from me.
If a teen is going on PP’s website for sex ed., I can guarantee you that the teen is not trusting what their parents are telling them, or their parents are not telling them much at all. Either way, the parents fault, but leave it to PP to promote their “profit-by-abortion” agenda to these poor, uninformed & naive kids.
I just feel that the “void” that the parents leave is the one that PP fills…but to make a profit..that’s the difference.
IMO, PP is nothing more than a legalized child predator that laughs all of the way to the bank.
Hideous, in my book!
Posted by: AB Laura at December 3, 2007 8:13 PM
……………………………………………………
I have to wonder why you distrusted your mother so much. Did your mom give you the abstinence lecture? Did you run out and have sex to see what she was hiding from you?
Pushing a baby out my hoo-ha was a pretty good factor in my choice to NOW stay abstinent til marriage.
Just thought I would lighten the mood a little bit.:)
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 3, 2007 10:05 PM
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Do you think that being married would make delivery some how different? Sorry. Don’t get your point.
JM, HI! Sorry. Had to get off for a minute.
Posted by: heather at December 3, 2007 9:08 PM
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Please keep your sex life to yourself unless you have a point to make. Thank you.
Laura,
You’re just mad that they don’t tout your frigid, joyless, genderless Jesus agenda.
Jesus was a man. I have six kids. Can’t imagine that makes me frigid. Three of them no longer live at home. That takes care of the “Joy”…so you’re wrong on all counts. (Except they are coming home for Christmas…so maybe you have a point about “joyless”…of course they’ll go back to school again, I joy will come back…)
As to genderless, it’s not us that want women to dress and act like men and men to act like women, so that no one can tell the difference.
Posted by: mk at December 3, 2007 7:02 PM
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What is your need for gender identification? You’d label Jesus gay with all his turning the other cheek and dress wearing business.
EH: There is information on what abstinence is. There is not information on how to stay abstinent.
Well, EH, what do you want it to say? “You stay abstinent by not diddling each other”?
Doug
Laura, you really go out of your way to torment your neighbors? Grow up! You’re no spring chicken anymore. I think at the age of 45, you need to get a life.
Sorry. I just find that so weird. Why don’t you just say “Live and Let Live.” move on. It’s not that big of a deal. You are all about choices, aren’t you?
it’s not us that want women to dress and act like men and men to act like women, so that no one can tell the difference.
Aw Geez MK, did you see me going into the skirt store?
Heather: I don’t care if you want to worship a watermelon.
Well, Sis, that works both ways….
On a less serious note, I can certainly see paying some homage to a good old watermelon, but for it to be truly worship-worthy there’s gotta be some vodka involved.
Doug
Please keep your sex life to yourself unless you have a point to make. Thank you.
Posted by: Sally at December 4, 2007 1:21 AM************************** I had to get off line for a minute. “sillyhead.”
Hi JM, my friend.
“I believe that God exists too. But I also understand that they may be no God at all. There is no proof either way. No one can prove that God exists, but no one can prove he doesn’t exist either.”
Actually, I believe that there is A LOT of evidence for his existence. Of course, one can’t “prove” his existence in the mathematical sense, but then again, we can’t “prove” gravity, evolution, or anything else in a mathematical sense. Yet these things we are all quite sure of because all the evidence points to it. It really is only in atheism that you see people denying premises that otherwise would be absurd to deny. If you’re interested JM (or anyone else), I’d really like to recommend the podcast “Reasonable Faith” with William Lane Craig. It’s a weekly podcast, and each of the first several episodes are about 11 minutes. If you’re interested, start from the beginning. He goes through all the arguments for the existence of God, and moves into the coherence of faith and reason. William Lane Craig is a world renowned philosopher, theologian, and debater. I think you’d really enjoy it and learn a lot. God love you, JM.
Bobby, that sounds like a great read. I think I might have to buy it too.
Sally,
Don’t take life so seriously..it was a joke..of course I know the actual act of childbirth won’t be different if I’m married..only it WOULD be a different experience having my husband there.
Bethany, it’s free. And it’s a podcast. You can download it to your computer and listen to it, or listen to it on an iPod. All free. Wonderful resource.
Well, EH, what do you want it to say? “You stay abstinent by not diddling each other”?L
Ha! You said diddling…
Laura, you really go out of your way to torment your neighbors? Grow up! You’re no spring chicken anymore. I think at the age of 45, you need to get a life.
Posted by: heather at December 4, 2007 7:29 AM
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Oh, I do have a life.
I had one when I was YOUR age too! College, travel, party, party, party!
Not a single crappy diaper, screaning baby or a jar of smooshed peas ANYWHERE!
Doug,
Aw Geez MK, did you see me going into the skirt store?
No, coming out.
Not a single crappy diaper, screaning baby or a jar of smooshed peas ANYWHERE!
Ya know, Laura, pretty soon you’ll be needing someone to change your crappy diaper and feed you smooshed peas. And who will you expect to do for you what you wouldn’t do for anyone else?
Oh, I do have a life.
I had one when I was YOUR age too! College, travel, party, party, party!
Not a single crappy diaper, screaning baby or a jar of smooshed peas ANYWHERE!
I had Charlotte for the afternoon yesterday. I was on the phone when Sarah dropped her off. In the two minutes it took me to hang up, (Charlotte didn’t even have her coat off yet) she ate four pieces of candy out of the advent calendar, poured my 7-up all over the rug and was playing with the ice cubes. (The dog had also finally gotten his stuffed toy open and there was “wadding” from one end of the front room to the other.)
Yes, kids can be “interesting” to say the least. But after the cleanup we also played ring around the rosie, found all the things in our house that were the same as the ones in the books we were reading, and snuggled for a half and hour while I sang “Go to Sleep Little Baby” from “O Brother Where Art Thou”…
Wouldn’t trade that for anything. Strained peas? Can’t compete with a kiss and the words “Gramma”…
“Well, EH, what do you want it to say? “You stay abstinent by not diddling each other”?”
Doug,
If I were asked to promote abstinence, I might say things like:
-Talk to your boy/girlfriend right upfront. Make sure that they know that you are choosing to be abstinent. If you are serious about abstinence, you don’t want to be with someone who is going to continually try to crack your reserve. And, you don’t want them to feel you are leading them on.
-Don’t put yourself in really tempting situations. Plan your dates for public places. If you want to stay home and watch a movie, plan to have someone else at home, too, even if they aren’t in the room. If you are in a dorm, consider an “open door” policy.
-Talk with your boy/girlfriend and decide upfront how far you want to go, then stick to it and check each other when things go too far. For example, is French Kissing ok with you? Or is that too far?
-Find friends who are also choosing to remain abstinent. You can support each other, and have a great time together with no fear of teasing or talk of sexcapades. Sometimes church youth groups have support clubs like “Tru Love Waits” that can hook you up with other abstinent teens.
-Consider postponing serious, steady dating until you are nearer a time when you would consider marriage. Having lots friends of both sexes instead of one serious boy/girlfriend will put you in fewer tempting situations.
-If you are teased, or in a position where you are exposed to a lot of “Locker Room” talk, think ahead about what you will say. You can be serious and upfront, you can just choose to be quiet on the subject, or you could choose to use humor, or change the subject.
So Doug, that took me about five minutes, and is just a start. That is encouragement. That is practicality. If you want to “tout” abstinence as a healthy choice that is the kind of information that should be available.
Great examples, EH. Thank you. That is more like it.
It’s ironic how Planned Parenthood and the like, seem to have so much confidence in young men and women, when they FEEL like it…it seems that they have decided that teens are mature enough to make decisions like abortion, or mature enough to remember to take a pill or use a condom correctly, yet they don’t seem to have that same confidence, that they are mature enough to make decisions, like, you know, staying abstinent.
Every single abstinence article they write includes a backup plan, in case abstinence fails. It has the undertone of “You’re definitely going to fail at this- it’s only a matter of time, so here’s plan B”.
This, to me, shows a lack of faith in the maturity of these young girls and boys. If they’re not mature enough to be trusted to abstain, how can they possibly be mature enough to be trusted to use condoms, or birth control pills, faithfully?
Why can’t they just admit that they think that teens are just a bunch of stupid hormonal animals that can’t possibly be smart enough to control themselves?
Awww, MK..your post was very sweet. I know my mom would agree with you. I think my mom likes my daughter who squeezes her juice boxes all over her just-cleaned floor better than she likes me at times haha. I don’t care how many juice boxes she spills in her lifetime..nothing even comes close to being better than a single kiss and hug from my daughter. Not ANY college party or ANY place I’ve ever traveled. I love the crappy diapers..smooshed peas..and screaming. Laura..I wonder if those college parties will ever make you feel as good as having someone hold your hand and say “momma.” I’ve visited both sides and I like the view from here, thanks.
Bethany: it seems that they have decided that teens are mature enough to make decisions like abortion, or mature enough to remember to take a pill or use a condom correctly, yet they don’t seem to have that same confidence, that they are mature enough to make decisions, like, you know, staying abstinent.
Well, B, lots of teens are gonna have sex, that’s just a given, so it’s not unreasonable to be cognizant of that. PP has no problem with a teen deciding to abstain, but of course not all are gonna do that.
Doug
So Doug, that took me about five minutes, and is just a start. That is encouragement. That is practicality. If you want to “tout” abstinence as a healthy choice that is the kind of information that should be available.
EH, thank you – that was very good, and I agree – those are great suggestions. I see what you mean about “how to stay abstinent.”
Doug
The “how to stay abstinent” discussion reminds me of a guy I worked with, long ago.
He had a daughter of 10 or 11, and the girl was asking questions about sex. He was a little ill at ease as far as talking about it, so he got two charts, drawings of the male anatomy and female anatomy, genitalia included. He pointed at one, then the other. “See this? See that? Whammo.”
Hi Doug!
Thanks alot. I will never be able to say “Whammo!” again without THAT visual :)
What’s an Irishman’s version of foreplay?
– “Brace yourself, Bridget.”
“You’re just mad that they don’t tout your frigid, joyless, genderless Jesus agenda.”
Genderless…as in, “MALE AND FEMALE CREATED HE THEM?” It’s you homophiles that despise real sexual diversity, and prefer perversity.
Frigid…as in, “Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth”, “Let every man have his own wife and every woman her own husband” (unless endowed with a preference for celibacy)? Then there’s that interesting passage instructing married people not to neglect the marriage bed…
“Joyless”…you really don’t know Jesus at all, or you would know how laughable that comment really is. He’s all about joy; just not for getting it from the destructive attitudes/actions He calls sin.
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PP has a huge problem with teens deciding to abstain until marriage: it’s called “the loss of millions of dollars”. That’s why Faye Wattleton stated, “We are not going to be an organization promoting celibacy or chastity.”