On January 7 the Los Angeles Times attributed American Psychiatric Association president Nada Stotland as stating, “It may be… that women who have abortions are more emotionally unstable in the first place.”
Do you agree?
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
hmmmmm……..
The vast majority of woman who have abortions are those who have sex knowing that they don’t want kids.
They have an illusion that they actually have some sort of “control” of their reproductive system.
They think that free love and free abortion is actually good for women. Even though it has actually stalled womens progress. (Think: we still make less money than men; We are seen more as sex objects now than we were before 1970; There are actually more divorces filed a year than marriage licenses; We have to bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, raise the children, do the laundry, keep the house clean, make sure everyone makes appts, Help with homework, pay the bills, fix the house, mow the lawn, take care of the garden…..and the man we are suppose to make feel manly got the cow and the milk for free and has run off with a cow from the other side of town?; We think we have to look and act like whores in order to get respect in the workplace; sexual harrassment is still happening and most of the time it is overlooked; we still have to justify our lifestyles and outfit to a jury in rape cases.)
Now that women use abortion as birth control men no longer feel they have to take responsibility.
And somehow, they still think abortion on demand is good for women and a choice that will “free” them.
Emotionally unstable? I think brain washed would be the better description.
I can recall two studies that would support this.
One was done in the UK. Women requesting abortion were given the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, or MMPI. A control group of patients not requesting abortions were also give the MMPI. The abortion group scored significantly higher on Cluster B personality disorders, specifically the Histrionic, Borderline, and Narcissistic. In laymen’s terms, we’d say they’re “Drama Queens” who don’t cope well and for whom everything is an enormous crisis that they can’t calm down and think through rationally.
Another study — I think it was focus groups — was done in the United States, and it compared women who aborted versus those who continued the pregnancies. Those who aborted had a more fragile sense of self and were less able to adapt to the idea of their plans being altered by the birth of a child.
And it just makes sense: If you have good coping skills, you can adapt better to a stressor, be it a layoff, a serious illness, or an unexpected pregnancy. If you are holding on by your fingernails already, the pregnancy will tax you. But then, so will the abortion.
Summary: Provide help developing coping skills and allow the pregnancy to become a mastry experience instead of being just one more crisis she couldn’t cope with.
Have either one of you had an abortion?
I would have to read her definition of stable and unstable.
I was alone, without a job, without my family, and in deep despair. Unstable? Ok then.
I think she is painting with a broad brush – certainly *some* women who have abortions and exhibit post abortion syndome have pre-existing mental and emotional issues. To say that all, or that even a majority do, is not an accurate statement and reveals her bias..
See at b4l..
“”It may be… that women who have abortions are more emotionally unstable in the first place.”
I’m not sure.
I think the bigger issue is that by having abortion legal leads many women (stable or unstable) to believe that abortion is ok.
Since post-partum depression and post-partum psychosis is so much more prevalent than PTSD due to abortion, couldn’t you assume that women who have babies are fairly batcakes compared to women who have abortions?
Wasn’t it John McD that said low zinc can be a major factor in emotional stability at crucial points in a femal lifespan?
Pop the zinc pills, then.
What is the purpose of saying women are unstable anyway? Is it to negate any pain, any shame, any notion that they somehow regret what they have done? Oh, they were all just emotionally unstable in the first place. Don’t listen to them. Not all women respond to crisis in the same way. Not all reasons to abort are the same. That doesn’t mean we can dismiss the regret from the women and men that are now coming forward.
I have been called worse than unstable. :O
@ruben,
me thinks it is the most prevalent emotion is abortion. Decades ago an Ob-Gyn from New Zealand (Patrick Dunn) traced the mood changes of his pregnant patients during pregnancy. Two overt times during pregnancy were clearly seen: the 1st was from @6-11 wks …. the 2nd began and slowly deepened during the third trimester. He also found that the famous post partem depression followed immediately from the unique hormone rush of giving birth.
He also wrote that nearly 80% of ALL abortions sre done at the bottom of the first depression, 8-11wks. Please note that SoMG, an abortionist, claims some 83% of ALL abortions are done in the 1st trimester. 80% and 83% … hmmmm.
This makes even more sense when it is understood that a particularly high demand for zinc by a developing human precisely mirrors these induced periods of depression. There is a 4th stage of very high zinc usage: puberty for both females and males. So a pregnant teen in North America is a shoe-in fo pregnancy-related depression.
The likely depression-zinc link is the deficient zinc pool of the mossy fiber layers of the cerebellum.
I would say yes…any woman who thinks it’s a rational idea to have her baby sucked out through a vacuum hose is probably a tad bit unstable.
I would say yes…any woman who thinks it’s a rational idea to have her baby sucked out through a vacuum hose is probably a tad bit unstable.
Posted by: Elizabeth at January 19, 2008 12:09 PM
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Gee, funny – I know plenty of women who have had abortions, and they seem to go on to finish their education, launch careers, find love and maintain healthy relationships.
Sounds like they made the responsible, adult choice.
Sounds like they made the responsible, adult choice.
As opposed to the irresponsible, childish choice of keeping children?
Just admit it, Laura. You’re pro-abortion.
not pro-choice.
No, having children you can care for – and WANT to care for – is a responsible, adult decision too.
I’m all about responsible choices…
The MMPI is not the majority view (when it comes to psych tests) in the U.S.
I am not really trusting the study done in the U.K.
Not to mention, that study was done in the U.K., so the sample represents their population, not ours. Europe is different than the US on a lot of things. They have a different way of life, different values and morals than our country.
So when you look at it terms of validity. It’s not good. No one in the US had an equally likely chance of being chosed for this study, so a random sample and random assortment does not apply here.
Since post-partum depression and post-partum psychosis is so much more prevalent than PTSD due to abortion, couldn’t you assume that women who have babies are fairly batcakes compared to women who have abortions?
Posted by: FetusFascist at January 19, 2008 9:56 AM
Statistically false. The suicide rate among post abortive women is about three times higher than the general population and post abortive women are six times (that is 600%) more likely to commit suicide than those who deliver. This based on a study of vital statistics in California of more than a million women.
Women who gave birth had lower incidence of depression and mental illness than those who had abortions.
Post partum depression is real and those who have it need access to help and services. However, postpartum depression is less prevalent than than depression after abortion.
Her statement may be partially true because it’s pretty obvious that killing your own baby is NOT a rational thing to do. But, it seems to be an exremely flip answer to a very serious problem. Post traumatic stress after abortion is very real for the women who experience it. To trivialize their suffering is unfair.
If Nada Stotland of the APA truly believes her statement, and abortionists really care about women as they claim to, then maybe they should give women a short survey where they can comment on their own mental health status before an abortion is scheduled. It could be done on the computer to save time. If a woman believes she is “emotionally unstable” (we all have our days), then doesn’t it make sense to tell the woman to wait a day or two until she’s feeling better? It’s a HUGE decision!!!
If there is a pre-disposition for certain personality types to be more prone to abortion, it makes sense to me that it would be a Narcissistic type, although I don’t think you can paint everyone with a broad brush, as Ruben also stated at 9:22 AM.
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FF, 12:49:
Sounds like you are conceding that regret by some people after abortion exists, by comparing it to the PPD that many women feel after giving birth. The women who give birth have something to show for their suffering: a beautiful baby to love, who will one day be there for his/her parents in their old age – when that love they receive is much more important than any education, nice car, etc. they may have acquired over a lifetime.
Her statement may be partially true because it’s pretty obvious that killing your own baby is NOT a rational thing to do. But, it seems to be an exremely flip answer to a very serious problem. Post traumatic stress after abortion is very real for the women who experience it. To trivialize their suffering is unfair.
If Nada Stotland of the APA truly believes her statement, and abortionists really care about women as they claim to, then maybe they should give women a short survey where they can comment on their own mental health status before an abortion is scheduled. It could be done on the computer to save time. If a woman believes she is “emotionally unstable” (we all have our days), then doesn’t it make sense to tell the woman to wait a day or two until she’s feeling better? It’s a HUGE decision!!!
If there is a pre-disposition for certain personality types to be more prone to abortion, it makes sense to me that it would be a Narcissistic type, although I don’t think you can paint everyone with a broad brush, as Ruben also stated at 9:22 AM.
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FF, 12:49:
Sounds like you are conceding that regret by some people after abortion exists, by comparing it to the PPD that many women feel after giving birth. The women who give birth have something to show for their suffering: a beautiful baby to love, who will one day be there for his/her parents in their old age – when that love they receive is much more important than any education, nice car, etc. they may have acquired over a lifetime.
Sorry about the double post. The first one was me.
Statistically false. The suicide rate among post abortive women is about three times higher than the general population and post abortive women are six times (that is 600%) more likely to commit suicide than those who deliver.
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Women with preexisting emotional disorders – manic depression, drug addiction, schizophrenia, etc… – are FAR more likely to engage in the sort of high-risk behaviors that cause unwanted pregnancy. These same disorders also lead to suicide.
I would much rather have chaotic women choose abortion than crank out neglected children that stay home and suffer while narcissistic Mom goes out to party.
Elizabeth,
I wasn’t told my baby would be sucked out with a vacuum hose. I was told it was safe and legal and it was just a bunch of cells. I believed that lie. I believed what they told me and what they promised me. I could “get on with my life.”
FF,
Still grinding the ax about Jill, eh?
Mom goes out to party…….give it a rest.
The women who give birth have something to show for their suffering: a beautiful baby to love, who will one day be there for his/her parents in their old age – when that love they receive is much more important than any education, nice car, etc. they may have acquired over a lifetime.
Posted by: Anonymous2 at January 19, 2008 2:04 PM
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Yeah! ‘Cause that’s the way it always happens.
I wish I lived on your planet.
On my planet, women who are forced to carry an unwanted pregnancie aren’t “rewarded” with a “beautiful baby to love,” they just feel resentment. Women with PPD and PPP are known to toss their babies into dumpsters or drown them in the bathtub.
FF:
That scenario was meant to make a point. Sometimes we don’t understand the meaning of the things that come our way. We’re short-sighted, we struggle with today and don’t think about tomorrow. What may seem a hopeless situation today can change.
If it makes you feel any better, things aren’t perfect on my planet either, it’s only 3 degrees outside. Can’t wait ’til Spring.
Carla:
1. “Individual results may vary.” Yeah, there are other factors. Jill was asking about populations, not individuals. And we’ve all seen cases of women having abortions because of extrordinary circumstances, or rich women having abortions because they aren’t going to let some embryo tell them when it’s time to parent.
2. Don’t you think you deserved help getting out of the bad situation, rather than to have somebody take your money, do the abortion, and send you back into the same problems?
Women with preexisting emotional disorders – manic depression, drug addiction, schizophrenia, etc… – are FAR more likely to engage in the sort of high-risk behaviors that cause unwanted pregnancy. These same disorders also lead to suicide.
I would much rather have chaotic women choose abortion than crank out neglected children that stay home and suffer while narcissistic Mom goes out to party.
Posted by: FetusFascist at January 19, 2008 2:39 PM
The problem with assuming that post abortive women had pre existing mental health condition is the fact that the study tracked these women by a unique registration number. They did not access mental health services more frequently before they aborted, but did after.
I think the bigger issue is that by having abortion legal leads many women (stable or unstable) to believe that abortion is ok.
Nancy Howell Lee’s research (published as “The Search for an Abortionist” — Get a copy if you can!) into women arranging illegal abortions found that one of the biggest factors in a woman deciding to abort was her perception that this is what her peers would do on the same situation. In other words, abortion is like all human behaviors: the more “normal” it is presented as being, the more people will do it.
That said, you can’t ignore the reseachr that found the Cluster B personality disorder traits being higher among women requesting abortion, and the focus groups that found a fragile sense of self that could not incorporate the idea of motherhood without collapsing. These are factors that need to be addressed as well as the whole “Everybodys doing it” factor.
Carla, the point is that if many women are having abortions because of impaired decision-making or coping skills, the idea of abortion as some liberating choice falls to the ground. It turns out that the local abortion “provider” is not the Champion of Choice, helping women to implement prudent life plans. He is in practice a profiteer who has figured out how to make a buck by scamming women in the middle of a crisis.
I would much rather have chaotic women choose abortion than crank out neglected children that stay home and suffer while narcissistic Mom goes out to party.
Posted by: FetusFascist at January 19, 2008 2:39 PM
Post partum depression is less common than depression after abortion.
I would rather chaotic women not abort and not commit suicide.
I would rather get them the help, love and support they need rather than treat them like they are a lost cause who have nothing to contribute.
People can turn themselves around when someone cares about them.
John, that’s interesting about the zinc. Do you have a link?
“I would much rather have chaotic women choose abortion than crank out neglected children that stay home and suffer while narcissistic Mom goes out to party”
Laura, you would’ve made a great Nazi.
I’m think this might be partly true but not in a negative way. Let me explain: pregnancy brings about a huge hormonal change. It is a condition meant to be entered into when married so that the newly pregnant woman has the rational, calming effect of a man, the husband and father. However, when this is not present, I think the situation is very unstable and very difficult for the pregnant woman. It’s not a good time to have to make huge decisions. To be quite honest, I think this a very demeaning statement especially so when made by the APA President. If it can be substantiated by hard data, it means that there are huge numbers of emotionally unstable women in the population. And we have to ask ourselves why and act on it.
Christina,
I hear you. I think we are on the same page. :)
I was a woman in crisis. I was alone. I was terrified. I told 2 people, both pro-choice. My mother had taken my sister to get one. I really wish I had reached out to SOMEONE else or a CPC and felt that someone at least cared about me and wanted to help me.
FF, spare me the twisting and turning of my words and spitting them back. You are getting a bit tedious.
@Christina,
the zinc as the ’cause’ is my own interpretation about the ‘why’ is a phenomenon like Dunn’s happening at all …. Most of this info is pre-Internet times and is gleaned from the medical text ‘Zinc and Copper in Medicine’ eds. Sarper & Karcioglu.
the original graph by Dunn came as one small blurb among many that the then leader of Toronto’s Right to Life sent me as start-up material for the small group that I formed @1982. Decades later, I heard of a RC bishop in New Zealand with the name Patrick Dunn. Apparently the author of this graph was his father … an Ob/gyn in New Zealand.
from what I understand, both the pregnancy depressions and the use of zinc are almost unknown. ((The authors of one paper in ‘Zinc and …’ said that 90% of all genetic abnormalities could be eliminated if sufficient zinc and vitamin B6 were taken during pregnancy.)) The link between these two is definitely speculative, but would merit some further research.
Carla, 7:01PM
You mention a CPC and how that might have helped you. Its interesting, PC people will argue there is no coercion when it comes to having an abortion. The woman choosing abortion is always capable of making the best judgment.
However, let the woman enter a CPC and she suddenly turns into this simpering wimp who can be coerced and manipulated into making a decision she doesn’t want.
“I would much rather have chaotic women choose abortion than crank out neglected children that stay home and suffer while narcissistic Mom goes out to party”
Laura, you would’ve made a great Nazi.
Posted by: jasper at January 19, 2008 6:18 PM
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Uh, Jasper-
You DO realize that there are a lot of good reasons why abortion is legal and child neglect is a crime?
“You DO realize that there are a lot of good reasons why abortion is legal and child neglect is a crime?”
so what your saying is, let’s kill the unborn baby because he/she may be neglected?
Jasper,
That was the argument in the early days of the abortion movement. “End Child Abuse/Support Abortion Reform” was a very popular bumper sticker.
Mary,
yes, I heard of that. Mary, have you done any scubber diving lately? I watched a program recently about the great barrier reef of the coast of Austraila (I never knew thay were actually animals). Really neat, I’d like to try it sometime.
Hi Jasper,
I’ll be going on a diving trip in the south Pacific at the end of February. I hope to see some beautiful reefs as well as some WW2 sunken ships and planes.
I haven’t been diving since September. I’ll have to break in slowly, I have terrible claustrophobia. I have to be cautious every time I dive because of that.
Do you dive?
Mary,
Along the same lines, how is it choice when you only have one choice set before you? Isn’t choice between two things?
To kill or not to kill. That must be it.
Carla,
Because of this, don’t you thing PC people would be running their own CPCs and would be the biggest supporters of CPCs? What better way to truly give women choices?
Mary,
Thats sounds exciting.. just take your time and breath slowly, I think more people than we think have some form of claustrophobia…
No, but I’d like to try it (I’m not great in the water and not a great swimmer)but I think it’s great to do things like this to overcome ones fears, etc. .. I’ve done some para-gliding when I was in europe a few years ago and some of my friends at work are into sky diving.
Exactly!!! Also, how many Planned Parenthoods refer women out for adoption?? Adoption, keep your baby, abortion…my child could have lived with 2 of those choices!
Jasper,
What I’ve learned is to submerge a few inches underwater and get comfortable. Then I go for it. It works very well for me. Its a little unnerving for me to be tossed off a boat, but I’ve coped with that pretty well.
It was always my dream to be part of a search and recovery team, don’t ask me why. I realized I better hustle since I wasn’t getting any younger. I belong to one now.
I think this assertion is HIGHLY unprofessional and hope to goodness that it was somehow misinterpreted or taken out of context. Her personal opinion of whether or not abortion is moral should absolutely not affect her practice in any way, and the fact that she is in such a public position only further compounds her obligation to maintain a professional demeanor.
“Abortion is one of the most common surgeries in the country, with more than 1 million performed a year; while some who chose the procedure surely come to regret it, doctors say they see no epidemic of trauma in either men or women.
But the activists leading the men’s movement make clear they’re not relying on statistics to make their case. They’re counting on the power of men’s tears.”
Statistics make or break a sweeping generalization in terms of validity; here, not only the doctors but also the movers and shakers behind this story just flat out admit that the stats aren’t there.
Samantha T.,
I think that you may be following her complete statement. Tge first observation holds that judgement prior to any abortion may have psychiatric overtones … this IMO is valid on its own. Establishing such a link by implying only women with pre-abortion mental difficulties will have a serious bout of depression may be so (because any ‘healing’ done requires zinc upfront).
This however does nothing to say that ALL abortions may be a decision based primarily on an induced psychological state. IE … periods of depression are ‘normal’ during pregnancy.
Samantha T,
You’re back! Stay with us, will ya?
I find Chrisina’s observation of the research intriguing.
That certain personality types are more “prone” to aborting as opposed to other personality types. I see evidence of that among our non-remorseful post-abortive friends here.
Interesting indeed.
Ok, well, this is a bit off topic but I went to a slam poetry performance last night at brandeis, and it was AMAZING. However, I heard this poem and thought it would certainly generate a great amount of conversation here. So here it is.
heres the performance of it, minus the first verse, unfortunately :(
Still amazing though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMK-rHaYD50
Uh, Jasper-
You DO realize that there are a lot of good reasons why abortion is legal and child neglect is a crime?
Posted by: FetusFascist at January 19, 2008 8:16 PM
Uh,
You do realize there were a lot of good reasons why slavery was legal and teaching blacks to read was a crime.
What is a good reason to some is not such a good reason to another.
Evidently some pro abortion folks seem to think there is a need for more counseling for post abortive women.
http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/899/context/archive
Baker had just completed her college degree …, after weighing her options, she chose to have the procedure at a local hospital.
I also had the assumption that someone would hand me a card and say, ‘If anything comes up–just anything at all–here’s a safe place to call.’ I was really shocked when I didn’t get that.”
Baker says that abortion is such a polarized issue that women’s post-abortion emotional health is often overlooked.
Despite the fact that abortion has been legal in the United States for nearly 30 years, post-abortion counseling remains rare.”
She is obviously pro abortion, yet honest enough to say that once the abortion is over the abortion industry has no time for you. She comes right out and says the only places to go for counseling were religious groups.
She is obviously pro abortion, yet honest enough to say that once the abortion is over the abortion industry has no time for you. She comes right out and says the only places to go for counseling were religious groups.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 20, 2008 1:46 PM
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It’s been two years since my chin implant.
No one offered me free clothing, free groceries, free housing or finacial assistance. No one has checked up on my emotional state, and I still can’t find a local support group in case I have chin implant PTSD.
Those heartless bastards. What kind of monster performs a surgical procedure for cash without any regard to how it might affect me FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE?!
@Dan,
sorry Carlos does not resonate because all he expresses is anger and rage. That’s a little-man saying “look at ME! Listen! I know!”
Been there … what Carlos knows has a name …
it goes by the moniker: ‘nothing’, ’emptiness’
and ‘shrillness’
silence has a better sound!
A hug from a boy with Down’s is
and is more of an ‘is’ than Billy boy
can ever even imagine.
Are folks who get chin implants at increased risk for suicide like post abortive women?
Or are they already unstable as the psychiatrist asserted and therefore should be offered counseling to hopefully prevent a suicide?
I think you don’t know, don’t want to know and don’t care.
The pro abortion activist in New York agreed that post abortive women don’t get the follow up they need.
Why are you so against women getting counseling and support even from pro abortion people? Why should women just have to sit quietly and not be able to express themselves?
Anonymous,
I understand that the more ethical plastic surgeons will refuse to operate on patients who they feel may need psychiatric help, like those who suffer a poor body image, have very unrealistic expectations, or who continue to have one procedure after another.
Of course, there are those who will operate no matter what.
That’s fantastic, Dan, thanks for sharing it! I love slam, I don’t get to go to nearly as many performances as I would like!
The one last night was AMAZING, had a bunch of champions there, and the closing act was Saul Williams!!!!
Dear FF,
I would like you to come over to my house. You are invited to meet the hubs and play with my cherubs. You sound like you could use a friend.
*fan girl scream*
YOU SAW SAUL WILLIAMS??? AHHHHH!
I am so, so, SO jealous.
I believe the studies that say that post-abortive women are more likely to commit suicide, have depression, die from any means (whether accident or homicide) take into consideration the mental state of the women beforehand. They rule out any pre-existing mental conditions.
The risk of suicide has been shown to be up to 6 times more for post-abortive women as for women who have carried to term.
I don’t have the time to find any links right now. There was the Christchurch, New Zealand study (I think that one on depression?), a Finland study, and a California study, and maybe more.
Ellie, I’ m happy to help you out with a couple of those:
The New Zealand Study (the leader of this study is a pro-choice athiest, btw):
http://www.prolife.org.uk/pdfs/Abortion_in_young_women_NZ.pdf
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/313/7070/1431?ijkey=o2njWBDkmGz5Q
Why do you always think pro-choicer’ need friends? Calling us anti-social unloved people is like pro-choicer’ who say pro-lifers must either be stuck up, ice-queen, prudes who fall way short of satisfying any man or fat ugly virgins who want to punish people for having the fun they want but can’t get.
Carla:
“Dear FF,
I would like you to come over to my house. You are invited to meet the hubs and play with my cherubs. You sound like you could use a friend.”
You’d really let Laura play with your kids? Aren’t you afraid she’d kill them in the name of choice?
And probably seduce your husband too.
Jess, this shows that you have a huge misunderstanding of how we really feel about people on the pro-choice side. You’re taking our words and spinning them in a way that you think they sound. But if you’d just take a moment to sincerely evaluate what we’re saying, you’d see it’s coming from a much different perspective.
Carla didn’t say that “all prochoicers must need friends” (although, it could be true). She said that it appears that Laura needs a friend.
And I think she’s going way out of her way to invite such a rude person to her home. She is much more forgiving than I probably would be.
Laura has been attacking Carla for about a week or two now, and now Carla responds in the most polite way possible- by offering her friendship- and you call this somehow mean?
..have you said anything to stick up for Carla all of the times Laura has spewed hatred towards her? How about the fact that Laura seems to think that all people who regret their abortions are liars? Why don’t you try to attack that stereotype?
@Bethany
I didn’t hear any of their exchange besides the one where Carla said she could use a friend. I understand many pro-lifers would love to be able to share their cause with someone else and become their friend.
I think Carla was being mean however because;
A) I don’t think she would actually be stupid enough to invite someone she met online to her home where she has children.
B) Telling someone they could use a friend often comes off as condescending, implying that they have a bad attitude and personality.
I’m sure both Carla and Laura are just equally passionate about their causes.
Well, then see, Jess. This is where you went wrong. You didn’t read the whole conversation. You read Carla’s comment and made a large assumption. Go back and read through the posts in this topic, and a few of the others below. Read all of Laura’s and carla’s posts, and then you tell me that Carla’s comment was unwarranted.
And by the way, you do not know that Carla would not invite her into her home. That is yet another assumption.
implying that they have a bad attitude and personality.
So your point….?
I don’t think she would actually be stupid enough to invite someone she met online to her home where she has children.
I invited Midnite to my home. And I’ve met a few other online friends as well. I don’t know if I’d necessarily consider it stupid, unless you think that there is actually danger in meeting Laura herself (which I totally understand if you do).
Midnite at your place? How was that? Must’ve been a trip.
Jess, what is your opinion on Ann Coulter? How do you feel about her, and the way she presents her point of view on things?
Would you accept it if someone were to call her “anti-social” or “unloved”? Would you tolerate it if someone told her she needed a friend?
Or would you immediately stick up for her, saying it was an uncalled for statement?
Answer honestly now.
Midnite at your place? How was that? Must’ve been a trip.
Actually, unfortunately, last week when I was waiting for her at Zaxby’s, I found out she had to go to the hospital because her grandmother had a seizure…so I wasn’t ever able to meet her. Hopefully, it’ll happen soon and I’ll be sure to let you all know how it went. :)
Jess and Bethany,
I was being sincere. I am at a loss as to why Laura continually tears apart everything I say. I reread and ask why?? I am being sincere in my posts. I tell about my experience and her responses are downright cruel. This is my own impression of Laura. She is one angry, bitter, hateful person. My grandma used to tell me hurting people hurt people. So yes, I believe that Laura could use a friend. That will be met with some kind of sarcasm I am sure.
I ignore most of what she writes and leave her comments to shame themselves. I guess I just feel sorry for her.
Jess, you are invited to my house and so is Bethany.
If I am ever near Wisconsin, I will definitely want to meet you, Carla. :) If you ever happen to be in Alabama, please feel free to visit me as well!
I knew you were being sincere with Laura. I don’t know why she has to be so hateful, and I think you are right about hurting people hurting others. It is so often that this is the case, Sadly. :(
I think if she met you in person, she’d have to realize what a lovely person you are, inside and out.
I am being sincere in my posts. I tell about my experience and her responses are downright cruel. This is my own impression of Laura. She is one angry, bitter, hateful person.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excuse me?
YOU decided to have an abortion, and now blame everyone but yourself for the decision. You have an AMAZING sense of entitlement when it comes to the subject of what people should have done in response to YOUR decision to have irresponsible sex. I’ve loved your version of how you would have not had the abortion if society had just offered you all of the goods and services you needed to raise a child. It doesn’t work that way.
I’ve got friends. They all work, earn what they have, and pay their bills. They don’t whine about handouts all day.
You’d really let Laura play with your kids? Aren’t you afraid she’d kill them in the name of choice?
And probably seduce your husband too.
Posted by: Jess at January 20, 2008 6:36 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jess has me pegged.
Jess is my friend.
Laura, please, just knock it off. I think it would be better for you to just ignore Carla if you have nothing nice or civil to say to her.
Carla, I commend your civility in dealing with Laura. And for the record, I used to live in Wisconsin… I miss the cheese. :-p
YOU decided to have an abortion, and now blame everyone but yourself for the decision.
Liar. She has blamed herself over and over and for 16 years she has blamed herself.
Simply because there were factors that would have changed her mind do NOT mean that she does not blame herself.
You have an AMAZING sense of entitlement when it comes to the subject of what people should have done in response to YOUR decision to have irresponsible sex. I’ve loved your version of how you would have not had the abortion if society had just offered you all of the goods and services you needed to raise a child. It doesn’t work that way.
Laura, are you opposed to welfare? WIC? Medicaid? Would you be opposed to charity for children like the one in the picture with the vulture standing over her? Are you opposed to adoption? Are you opposed to people being willing to freely distribute charity to those who are less fortunate than they? Get over yourself. Especially since you’re definitely not one to talk- Laura who accepted handouts from NOW.
Rae, thank you!
I’ve loved your version of how you would have not had the abortion if society had just offered you all of the goods and services you needed to raise a child. It doesn’t work that way.
Yes it does. Over 2,000 Crisis pregnancy centers in America are more than willing to feed, clothe, give shelter to, give baby beds, carseats, drive women to their doctors’ appts, give formula, baby formula, diapers, baby clothes, etc…the list goes on and on -free of charge to women who need it!
There ARE people who are willing to give to those less fortunate than themselves. Sorry to burst your bubble.
No problemo Beth-meister. :)
I finally saw Juno today.
Was it any good? It looks like it’s going to be so funny. :)
It was okay, I felt it was trying a bit too hard to be clever and witty at points and there were some things in it that were really creepy/annoying.
It was a cute movie, but it was definitely over-hyped, I feel.
Bethany, do you have any instant messaging programs like MSN or AIM?
I believe the studies that say that post-abortive women are more likely to commit suicide, have depression, die from any means (whether accident or homicide) take into consideration the mental state of the women beforehand. They rule out any pre-existing mental conditions.
The risk of suicide has been shown to be up to 6 times more for post-abortive women as for women who have carried to term.
I don’t have the time to find any links right now. There was the Christchurch, New Zealand study (I think that one on depression?), a Finland study, and a California study, and maybe more.
Posted by: Ellie at January 20, 2008 4:44 PM
……………………………………………………….
The Finnish study misrepresented by many a PL spin doctor was executed to study suicide in a country well known for it’s high rates of suicide. The study focussed on woman in gestational circumstances regardless of the outcome in an attempt to determine a gestational factor in depression and suicide from pregnancy itself. The outcome of the study most certainly does not support the PL assertion that abortion causes suicide let alone depression.
Rae, I have msn…I will send you an email with the email if you want to chat. :)
I’m think this might be partly true but not in a negative way. Let me explain: pregnancy brings about a huge hormonal change. It is a condition meant to be entered into when married so that the newly pregnant woman has the rational, calming effect of a man, the husband and father. However, when this is not present, I think the situation is very unstable and very difficult for the pregnant woman. It’s not a good time to have to make huge decisions. To be quite honest, I think this a very demeaning statement especially so when made by the APA President. If it can be substantiated by hard data, it means that there are huge numbers of emotionally unstable women in the population. And we have to ask ourselves why and act on it.
Posted by: Patricia at January 19, 2008 6:36 PM
……………………………………………..
Rational calming effect of a husband? What planet do you live on?
What about the study led by David Fergusson, Sally? David Fergusson is a pro-choice atheist and his study proved that women who have abortions demonstrate greater mental health problems than those who carry their child to term.
http://www.prolife.org.uk/pdfs/Abortion_in_young_women_NZ.pdf
Especially since you’re definitely not one to talk- Laura who accepted handouts from NOW.
Posted by: Bethany at January 20, 2008 7:47 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I earned my NOW “handout” through academic merit and community service.
Had I known I was entitled to wads of cash for irresponsible humping, I would have taken that path. It sounds a lot more entertaining.
Rational calming effect of a husband? What planet do you live on?
not all husbands are abusive, Sally.
Dear FF,
I decided on the abortion. On that we can agree. Crazy! I blame no one but myself. My point being, if I had walked into the CPC that Bethany volunteers for, things may have turned out differently.
TTFN
Dan SAUL WILLIAMS! No way!
Rae, gotta admit Juno had some rockin’ music tastes. And although Bateman’s character was creepy he is still a fox!
What about the study led by David Fergusson, Sally? David Fergusson is a pro-choice atheist and his study proved that women who have abortions demonstrate greater mental health problems than those who carry their child to term.
http://www.prolife.org.uk/pdfs/Abortion_in_young_women_NZ.pdf
Posted by: Bethany at January 20, 2008 8:07 PM
……………………………………….
Bethany, how do you think that this link supports your assertion?
Rational calming effect of a husband? What planet do you live on?
not all husbands are abusive, Sally.
Posted by: Bethany at January 20, 2008 8:13 PM
………………………………….
You cannot possibly ever have been married. Men are much less concerned with being rational and calming then women. Men are much more likely to strike out at even children than deal rationally with whatever disturbs whatever they are focussed or unfocussed on at the time.
@Bethany
About Ann Coulter. Honestly I strongly dislike the woman. I think she is nothing more then an attention whore, putting down people’s beliefs for a little publicity.
I heard something about you having AIM? I have AIM. Do you want my screen name.
@Carla
I know you mean well but please think twice before inviting strangers into your home. If you would like to meet someone please do as Bethany did and meet in public. I am under the assumption you live in Wisconsin so no, I cannot come visit you. But I will be your friend.
@Laura
“Jess has me pegged.”
Birds of a feather my dear : )
@Bethany and Sally
Chocolate will never treat you bad, chocolate will always be there for you.
@Bethany and Sally
Chocolate will never treat you bad, chocolate will always be there for you.
Posted by: Jess at January 20, 2008 10:52 PM
……………………………….
One can only hope. I’d hate to find the need to invade south of the border for my supply. And by golly, I would! I’m in peri-menopause and I could raise an army to defend our right to chocolate.
Maybe FF’s posts were deleted? I can’t find any insults except where she said Carla blamed others for her actions.
Chocolate makes me feel better, until I look on the scale the next day!
I luvs buttercrunch and oreos and s’mores and peanut butter cups and chocolate covered pretzels and…
…fat babies!
Out there somewhere, two Staneks and three other adult women are surviving in a 20×21 ft. space.
We should send them chocolate.
(Reference time! 20×21 is smaller than my bedroom and bathroom. Add four people x three days, and the murder/suicide would ensue – unless, of course – there was chocolate…)
You can go back to any of my posts and find FF. Thanks for the advice Jess. Friends are good.
You cannot possibly ever have been married. Men are much less concerned with being rational and calming then women. Men are much more likely to strike out at even children than deal rationally with whatever disturbs whatever they are focussed or unfocussed on at the time.
Sally, I am so very sorry that this was your experience with a man. Shame on him for treating you in such a way that you feel he is the “norm” for men…for making you scared of men in general. I think that he is a horrid example of a man ,and not at all the “norm”. I hate what he did to you.
I have indeed been married to my husband for 9 years, after having been in a relationship for 2 years prior. I am more in love with him every year that passes. On being a good father…many times I consider him to be a more understanding father than I am a mother. He has never done anything to hurt me or the children, physically, emotionally, otherwise.
When I go through hard times in life, the one who is there for me is my husband. He holds me and comforts me, and does whatever he can to help.
I never feel really complete unless my husband is home with me. I am so happy when he is home.
There are good men out there, Sally. And I hope one day that you will find one who will never treat you the way your abusive husband did. Someone who will put your feelings above his own, and who will love you more than he loves himself. I hate that there is anyone out there who could treat an individual the way you were treated. No one deserves that.
Bethany, how do you think that this link supports your assertion?
From the page:
“The findings suggest that abortion in young women may be associated with increased risks of mental health problems”
Check out the tables, etc
Jess, I don’t have AIM, but if you have MSN I can send you the email address associated with it so we can chat. :)
Maybe FF’s posts were deleted? I can’t find any insults except where she said Carla blamed others for her actions.
Okay, let’s pretend that’s the only thing Laura has said to insult Carla in the last few weeks. (remember,we’re talking about a period of weeks and not only this post)
Why is Laura’s insult okay with you?
About Ann Coulter. Honestly I strongly dislike the woman. I think she is nothing more then an attention whore, putting down people’s beliefs for a little publicity.
That is how I thought you would feel about her. Now, I don’t see where she has said anything but jokes and used sarcasm to get her point across…just as Laura. But surely you can see that there are better ways to get your point across than the way Ann Coulter does, right?
You told me that you appreciate Laura’s posts because she “is funny”, and “always cites her sources”…well, Ann Coulter is funny ,and she always cites her sources too. But, is her method nice? Of course not. She TRIES to get liberals riled up..just as Laura TRIES to get conservatives riled up. Can you see where I am going with this?
Bethany, do you have any instant messaging programs like MSN or AIM?
Rae, it’d be cool to have a chatroom, too.
I would think there are simple tests for proper zinc levels, and that dietary changes or supplemention would be easy.
http://tinyurl.com/yrclou
Following the birth, zinc levels fall as the placenta is expelled. However, copper levels remain high and consequently the inadequate zinc is unable to stabilise the balance. This is thought to be one factor responsible for post natal baby blues and depression.
A healthy placenta is the richest known source of zinc, containing between 300-600 mg, depending on its size. In the animal kingdom and in many traditional societies, the placenta is eaten, valued for its high nutrient content. Eating the placenta immediately restores postpartum zinc levels.
“It may be… that women who have abortions are more emotionally unstable in the first place.”
It wasn’t a quote, it was paraphrasing what she said.
I would think that the vast majority of women who have abortions are at least somewhat conflicted about it, i.e. even if the pregnancy is unwanted on balance, there is still some desire to continue it, from a miniscule amount right up to it being 50/50.
As to there being a segment of women who are more at risk for unwanted pregnancies as well as being more emotionally unstable than women as a whole, I’m sure that’s true.
Doug
Per midnite:
The MMPI is not the majority view (when it comes to psych tests) in the U.S.
Uh, uh, that’s not correct, I’d like to know your source:
“The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) is one of the most frequently used personality tests in the mental health fields.[1] This assessment, or test, was designed to help identify personal, social, and behavioral problems in psychiatric patients. The test helps provide relevant information to aid in problem identification, diagnosis, and treatment planning for the patient.”
1). Hogan TP (2003). Psychological Testing: A Practical Introduction, 1st, Wiley, 504
Mods, I’ve got a post in que since it contains a lot of links (citations), could you please approe it at your first chance? Thks!
No problem, Rachael. :)
@Doug,
Thanks for the link and info, Doug. L call zinc THE major mineral for body functions; the way calcium seems to be the major mineral for body structures lie bones and teeth.
“I would think there are simple tests for proper zinc levels, and that dietary changes or supplementation would be easy.” At first you would hope so but those little white spots on your nails (and loads of dandruff) are about as accurate for zinc deficiency as you are going to get. The problem is that zinc is involved in so many things like over 200 different enzymes; almost all hormone production; immune system competence … extra zinc is used to sterilize wounds… sexual; optic; all senses; pancreatic; on and on’. On top of all this. there are numerous ways that zinc levels are influenced … eg. drugs; heat from a fever; etc.
Biochemists often speak of ‘pools’ for minerals and we falsely imagine a swimming pool when we should be imagining ‘CAR POOL’.
more later …..
Hi all,
The zinc pool is something like a lawn on the surface of each cell. So each blade of ‘grass’ looks like M(cell membrane/wall -(tightly bound to)-Zn(the chemical short-hand for one atom of zinc)-(tightly bound to)-HSO3-CH2-CH2-NH2 or M-Zn-taurine so M is like soil Zn is like the little whie bulb and the amino acid taurine fixes the Zn to the membrane wall. So zinc supplementation should be coupled with taurine, they operate the way mortar and bricks operate on the siding of a house. (One doesn’t relly function without the other.)
There are some litte things to know about this relationship. 1) this is THE main zinc pool … whenever the cell wants zinc for its manufacturing a molecule of arachidonic acid(AA) will change to prostaglandin E2(PgE2) … attach the zinc to this ligand and guide the zinc through the cell membrane to the cell’s inside … at the same time, the taurine is released to the blood stream and is recycled by the kidneys. 2) taurine is a zwitterion with a positive charge on one end and a small negative charge st the other. So when it is bound to membranes … taurine molecules are all faced in an outward direction … cells will exhibit a slight negative charge on its surface … since like charges repel, so cells will not stick together. 3) this bound taurine-zinc is known as the cells’ potassium pump. Potassium on the inside of cells … sodium on cells’ outsides. The body uses this separation as a major energy thingy for each cell. Some have found relief from their PMS only with large doses of potassium (400-600mg).
Taurine (like AA) is only found in meat. The use of vegetarianism by teen girls is problematic because they lack sufficient taurine to ‘fix’ the zinc. One of the signs of copper-excess/zinc-deficit is an unusual INSISTENCE that ‘my way is superior’ … findings of Wilson about copper excess.
So when supplementing zinc also use a wee bit of taurine … not much is needed and it very inexpensive anyway. So Its 50mg zinc + 5mg copper + 500mg (1 tab) taurine. (It also seems taurine also binds to magnesium on the inside of cells … the same way zinc binds to taurine on the outer cell surface … to keep the organelle walls from sticking together.)
You cannot possibly ever have been married. Men are much less concerned with being rational and calming then women. Men are much more likely to strike out at even children than deal rationally with whatever disturbs whatever they are focussed or unfocussed on at the time.
Sally, I am so very sorry that this was your experience with a man. Shame on him for treating you in such a way that you feel he is the “norm” for men…for making you scared of men in general. I think that he is a horrid example of a man ,and not at all the “norm”. I hate what he did to you.
I have indeed been married to my husband for 9 years, after having been in a relationship for 2 years prior. I am more in love with him every year that passes. On being a good father…many times I consider him to be a more understanding father than I am a mother. He has never done anything to hurt me or the children, physically, emotionally, otherwise.
When I go through hard times in life, the one who is there for me is my husband. He holds me and comforts me, and does whatever he can to help.
I never feel really complete unless my husband is home with me. I am so happy when he is home.
There are good men out there, Sally. And I hope one day that you will find one who will never treat you the way your abusive husband did. Someone who will put your feelings above his own, and who will love you more than he loves himself. I hate that there is anyone out there who could treat an individual the way you were treated. No one deserves that.
Posted by: Bethany at January 21, 2008 6:04 AM
……………………………..
Good grief child! I have quite a good man thanks. Groovy that you do too. But you do live in a rarified world of your own making. Every minute of every day a woman is being beaten by a man that has professed to love her. And I’m not talking about the same woman and the same man day in and out.
The concept of a woman needing to be married to a man, while pregnant, to keep her rational and calm is just ridiculous. Pregnancy can trigger all manner of irrational behavior in men without hormones to blame it on.
Sally,
RE: VLad’s tool on the “Killing Girls” post…
Vlad has stated that he knows what it’s like to live under communist rule because he’s lived it. How he got to the United states, I don’t know. I was merely asking his opinion since
A) He’s pro-life and and
B) He’s from that side of Europe and could probably share some insight into the abortion attitudes there
If he’s not Russian, fine. Never said he was…
Like me. I’m not from Spain, but being hispanic and knowing spanish, I could pick up on some nuances of the Undercover Spain Abortion video that your average gringo could not.
That answer your question?
A stable woman feels love for the child in her womb.
Good grief child! I have quite a good man thanks. Groovy that you do too. But you do live in a rarified world of your own making. Every minute of every day a woman is being beaten by a man that has professed to love her. And I’m not talking about the same woman and the same man day in and out.
The concept of a woman needing to be married to a man, while pregnant, to keep her rational and calm is just ridiculous. Pregnancy can trigger all manner of irrational behavior in men without hormones to blame it on.
My world is not rare, Sally. There are many, many husband’s who treat their pregnant wives very nicely. Sadly, there are some who do not…but it is sexist to cloak all men with the same cloth as your ex-husband, Sally.
And it’s outrageous to think that you can tell me that “I’ve never been married” when it’s obvious I that I am married. I didn’t “make up” my world either.
I am happy to hear you have a good man now. But I’m concerned by what you said. Do you think that if you were pregnant your husband would abuse you? Would pregnancy trigger irrational behavior in your man? I realize you’re not going to have any more babies, but please just answer the hypothetical possibility if you don’t mind…
A stable woman feels love for the child in her womb.
Posted by: Truthseeker at January 22, 2008 12:20 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What if she’d rather party?
Children are annoying. I’d party.
What if she’d rather party?
Children are annoying. I’d party.
Would you kill a toddler because his mother was leaving him with babysitters while she partied, Laura? Would that solve the problem?
Taurine (like AA) is only found in meat. The use of vegetarianism by teen girls is problematic because they lack sufficient taurine to ‘fix’ the zinc. One of the signs of copper-excess/zinc-deficit is an unusual INSISTENCE that ‘my way is superior’ … findings of Wilson about copper excess.
John – awesome stuff. You are into this!
I luvs buttercrunch and oreos and s’mores and peanut butter cups and chocolate covered pretzels and…
:: laughing ::
Jess, you are too much! Good stuff, indeed.
John, I’ve always resisted “supplementation,” partly because it seems artificial versus natural. I know that a chemical is a chemical, and I do take a multi-vitamin each day, but often our foods have a lot more in them than does a pill, and often something like just eating dairy products or eggs along with red meat or poultry applies – you get taurine and zinc right there.
Heck, I had 24 chicken wings last night so I figure I’m good on zinc, for now…. Through a year, my wife and I will get oysters a few times, and Baby Oh Baby you talk about gettin’ some zinc!
For me it’s almost never a “lack” of foods or the stuff in them that is the problem, it’s the excess.
I hear you on vegans, etc., and there are compounds in some legumes and grains called phytates that can decrease zinc absorbtion, so I see it as a double-whammy, getting less zinc and potentially reducing the amount of that that the body can use.
Doug
Sally, I am so very sorry that this was your experience with a man. Shame on him for treating you in such a way that you feel he is the “norm” for men…for making you scared of men in general. I think that he is a horrid example of a man, and not at all the “norm”. I hate what he did to you.
Bethany, very well said!
I think the relationship you have with your husband is great. When I look at your picture, I think, “Oh man, he must love her SO much.”
Doug
Doug, that is very sweet of you to say. :-)
Doug, I’m very much in agreement with you on the artificial supplements vs. natural in foods. I really do tend to shy away from vitamins and try my best to get them in the form of a real food, most of the time. Although sometimes I will take vitamin B in pill form when I feel fatigued. It works wonders. It’s always nice to find common ground in some places.
@Doug and Bethany,
I’m very much into what you say … but the application of this is at times, tricky. This form of knowledge is so rare that many people live on near total junkfood and wonder why we live in a chaotic world with chaotic thoughts …. suicide is what we are doing to ourselves (through our diet). And IMO the fundamental concept driving abortion is suicide. We have a non-chalance attitude that life is only misery/refuse anyway and should be discarded. I AM NOT JUNK … so 1) don’t feed me bs! and 2) NEITHER ARE YOU JUNK …. all human life is very precious!
I am quite astounded that Doug even knows about the zinc-oyster connection or about the action of phytates. Next to human breast colostrum #2, oysters are #1 food for zinc. The taurine concentration is the highest amino acid in human colostrum. As for phytates (and phylates), they are the way a seed remains dormant during winter months. These are destroyed by water, so breads of germinated grains or fermented-grain-flours/sourdough has these chemicals removed(Pavvo Aerola).
It has subtlety and sophistication … but my diet is a blend of blood-type diet http://www.dadamo.com/ tweaked to account for seasonal variation. It is winter so root vegetables make up the major part of my diet … that and s porridge of several soaked grains… soaked and sprouts for a bit (and then cooked) + quinoa (does not require soaking) + ground and soaked flax seed (soaked) + 2Tbsp lecithin 2Tbs of ghee + salt to taste. (I would add 2Tbs of hemp nuts, but cannot afford.)
Overconsumption is a large problem, but it is likely different than you imagine …. we typically overeat on proteins. Fat comes from eating carbohydrates (not fat). It requires discipline to target food this way … but it can be done.
John, have you ever used Brewer’s yeast or Barleygreen? I used to have a spoonful of brewer’s yeast every day with some honey.
Also, I would drink barley green in orange juice. I hated it (I was a teenager), but I heard it was supposed to be really good for you.
Do you have any opinion on these two things?
I am happy to hear you have a good man now. But I’m concerned by what you said. Do you think that if you were pregnant your husband would abuse you? Would pregnancy trigger irrational behavior in your man? I realize you’re not going to have any more babies, but please just answer the hypothetical possibility if you don’t mind…
Posted by: Bethany at January 22, 2008 6:08 AM
………………….
Bethany, I have never been abused while pregnant. If you learned a little on the subject of DV, you would find that many women are.
8.8 million children witness domestic violence every year. 73% of those victims are women. 75% of those incidences will go unreported. 40% of first time abuse will happen during a woman’s first pregnancy.
DV breaks up families and causes poverty while costing society more than an enormous amount of money through medical treatment as well as loss of employment. We have many millions of women, children and men walking around completely traumatized by DV. And you folks are all worried about women regretting their free choice of abortion? How about those women’s right to freedom of harm? What are you doing about those millions of women and children that suffer violence at the hands of men every year? What legislation are you supporting?
The ‘right’ for premies to be cuddled while they die? Mandating parental consent for treatment of a pregnant teen?
Sally,
RE: VLad’s tool on the “Killing Girls” post…
Vlad has stated that he knows what it’s like to live under communist rule because he’s lived it. How he got to the United states, I don’t know. I was merely asking his opinion since
A) He’s pro-life and and
B) He’s from that side of Europe and could probably share some insight into the abortion attitudes there
If he’s not Russian, fine. Never said he was…
Like me. I’m not from Spain, but being hispanic and knowing spanish, I could pick up on some nuances of the Undercover Spain Abortion video that your average gringo could not.
That answer your question?
Posted by: carder at January 21, 2008 10:54 PM
…………………………………..
Not really. I’m an American that speaks English but had a dickens of a time understanding a word of, let alone a nuance of anyone speaking English in Yorkshire. I know a Puerto Rican and a Mexican that can barely understand anything the other says let alone nuances. I can’t see how having lived in a communist country would give one insight into current Russian culture unless one actually recently lived there.
But, thank you for clarifying what you meant.
Sally, you managed to completely avoid my question…
Sally, you managed to completely avoid my question…
Posted by: Bethany at January 22, 2008 8:34 PM
………………………………..
You set the standard by not addressing my utter disbelief that men behave in a rational and calming manner at any time. Let alone my dismissal of women ‘needing’ an outside influence to ‘control’ themselves.
Can’t find an applicable PL distortion piece to copy and paste in place of a well thought out comment Bethany?
Wanna pretend that a person’s experience of abuse compares to the ‘suffering’ of an embryo dying? Please! You denigrate the experience of life and suffering.
@Doug and Bethany,
I’m very much into what you say … but the application of this is at times, tricky. This form of knowledge is so rare that many people live on near total junkfood and wonder why we live in a chaotic world with chaotic thoughts …. suicide is what we are doing to ourselves (through our diet). And IMO the fundamental concept driving abortion is suicide. We have a non-chalance attitude that life is only misery/refuse anyway and should be discarded. I AM NOT JUNK … so 1) don’t feed me bs! and 2) NEITHER ARE YOU JUNK …. all human life is very precious!
I am quite astounded that Doug even knows about the zinc-oyster connection or about the action of phytates. Next to human breast colostrum #2, oysters are #1 food for zinc. The taurine concentration is the highest amino acid in human colostrum. As for phytates (and phylates), they are the way a seed remains dormant during winter months. These are destroyed by water, so breads of germinated grains or fermented-grain-flours/sourdough has these chemicals removed(Pavvo Aerola).
It has subtlety and sophistication … but my diet is a blend of blood-type diet http://www.dadamo.com/ tweaked to account for seasonal variation. It is winter so root vegetables make up the major part of my diet … that and s porridge of several soaked grains… soaked and sprouts for a bit (and then cooked) + quinoa (does not require soaking) + ground and soaked flax seed (soaked) + 2Tbsp lecithin 2Tbs of ghee + salt to taste. (I would add 2Tbs of hemp nuts, but cannot afford.)
Overconsumption is a large problem, but it is likely different than you imagine …. we typically overeat on proteins. Fat comes from eating carbohydrates (not fat). It requires discipline to target food this way … but it can be done.
Posted by: John McDonell at January 22, 2008 1:20 PM
…………………………………………..
John, I’m of the mind that one should study what foods one’s ancestors ate. You wouldn’t be here without them. They thrived without artificial supplements or imported food sources.
Fat does not come from carbs in general. It comes from eating carbs from the low glycemic index in many peoples of no need to store fat forever to survive.
Human nutrition and biology is a great deal more complicated than one size fits all cures for ailments.
You set the standard by not addressing my utter disbelief that men behave in a rational and calming manner at any time.
Where did I not address it, Sally? I think I responded to exactly that..? You have not shown me that a majority of men are abusive, or even potentially abusive. Yes, there are some very, evil, cowardly men who do abuse their wives, girlfriends, etc…but they are NOT the majority…and that is what you are implying. You have not proven that to me. Sally, I am very, very sorry for what happened to you, but you must stop assuming that your man was the norm. He simply wasn’t.
Let alone my dismissal of women ‘needing’ an outside influence to ‘control’ themselves.
It helped me TREMENDOUSLY when I had physical discomfort, or when I was feeling emotional during pregnancy, to have my husband there to comfort me. While not completely able to empathize completely what I was going through, was able to comfort me in the way that only a man would have been able to, and make me feel better than I felt before. Just knowing that someone else cares about how you feel IS very powerful and DOES help you through things like pregnancy. Nothing wrong with that, Sally.
Can’t find an applicable PL distortion piece to copy and paste in place of a well thought out comment Bethany?
Wanna pretend that a person’s experience of abuse compares to the ‘suffering’ of an embryo dying? Please! You denigrate the experience of life and suffering.
Honestly, Sally, I don’t know what your point is when you come to a pro-life blog and expect us to stop talking about abortion.
You know what I think would be an awesome opportunity for you? I feel that you could completely turn your horrible experience around for the good. It could become a positive experience, by you using your experience to help others who are in the situation you experienced…. Instead of coming to an abortion blog, and trying to argue with people here about different things, and trying to make us quit talking about abortion, you could use your experience to help women who are going through what you are going through somehow… for instance, you could volunteer at a shelter for abused women a couple of times a week. You could go to forums which discuss domestic abuse and comfort women there, sharing your experience with them. You could even write a book about your experiences, which would inform and encourage women in those situations. I think you have the opportunity to really, really help other women who have gone through what you have gone through. You have information that others may not have and it would really be a terrific thing for you to do….and I think it would be very healing for you.
I believe that when we go through hard times in life, it gives us the opportunity to help others through our experience. This can be uplifting for everyone involved.
Sally:
Haywood YC, Haile-Mariam T: Violence against women. Emergency Medicine Clinics of North America 17:603-615,
According to this source, 1 out of 4 women will be physically abused in their lifetime. While this is dreadful, if you will be honest with yourself about it, this means, that 3 out of 4 women will in most likelihood , NOT be abused in their lifetime…which means that there is a majority of men in the world who are not abusive to their partners.
Please understand that this is NOT an attempt to reduce or belittle your experience, which I am sure was absolutely terrible. I hate what your husband did to you. As I have said before, I agree with you that there is much horrible violent abuse against women, and that is terrible and I am completely against it. I think that the man who abused you as you said he did, should be rotting behind bars for the rest of his life (if he’s not already).
However, to say, or even imply, that a majority of men are abusive is simply false, Sally. Surely you must see this.
To state that one is living in a fantasy world if they believe that there are good men in the world, is to dismiss reality yourself.
I understand that your world view has been shattered by what happened to you. Your experience will remain in your heart for a long time… However, you have said that you have a good man now. If this is true, surely you recognize that there ARE good men out there.
Sally, as I said in the post above, my advice to you is to use your experience, to turn it around and make it positive, for yourself, and others. The most healing thing you can do for yourself is to use your experience to uplift others.
You are in a position that you could truly make a difference in the lives of women all over the nation.
40% of first time abuse will happen during a woman’s first pregnancy.
DV breaks up families and causes poverty while costing society more than an enormous amount of money through medical treatment as well as loss of employment. We have many millions of women, children and men walking around completely traumatized by DV. And you folks are all worried about women regretting their free choice of abortion? How about those women’s right to freedom of harm? What are you doing about those millions of women and children that suffer violence at the hands of men every year? What legislation are you supporting?
Sally, if 40% of first time abuse occurs when a woman becomes pregnant, what do you think that the motive might be behind the abuse in most cases?
Perhaps something like “You can’t be pregnant right now. If you don’t have an abortion, I’m going to beat that little ba***ard out of you!”
This happens quite frequently, Sally…sadly. This is another thing I am very much fighting, when I fight abortion.
You must not realize how many women are pressured and coerced or abused into aborting by their partners.
For what other reason would a man hit a pregnant woman, simply because she was pregnant?
What do you think that the reason would be that pregnancy would trigger irrational actions in a seemingly normal man?
I’d wager that the majority, if not all, of those men who abuse pregnant women are “pro-choice” on abortion. Pro-one-choice.
http://www.adn.com/opinion/compass/story/290038.html
Doctor From Bronx Hospital Is Sentenced in Needle Attack
By SHERRI DAY
Dr Stephen Pack is sentenced to two years in prison for trying inject Joy Schepis, nurse he worked with at Montefiore Hospital in Bronx, with syringe containing drug to induce abortion
Read the rest here:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B07E6DC1030F932A15757C0A9679C8B63
***
Capital Murder, Aggravated Assault and Assault (2 incidents)
Erik Bullock did not want the baby his girlfriend, Shawana Pace, was carrying. So he hired three thugs to beat her up and kill her baby. The thugs kicked her repeatedly in the belly and killed her baby, which was almost full-term.
Pace, who was due to give birth any day, pleaded for the baby’s life as she was kicked, choked and hit on August 26, 1999. One of the attackers told her “Your baby is dying tonight.”
Pace saw her dead child and named the little girl Heaven. “She was a perfect baby, almost 7 pounds. It was like she was just sleeping,” Pace said in her hospital room, where she was recovering from surgery to remove her spleen. She also suffered a broken left wrist, black eye and bruised face.
Read more here:
http://abortionviolence.com/AR.HTM
****
A Capitol Heights man was charged yesterday with simple assault in the Aug. 16 attack on his girlfriend, who refused to have an abortion. Andrew Jerome Gaither, 26, of the 1300 block of Natalie Terrace surrendered to D.C. police yesterday and is accused of assaulting his 21-year-old girlfriend outside the Hillcrest Women’s Surgi-Center at 3233 Pennsylvania Ave.
SE. The woman, who did not want to be identified, told The Washington Times in August that Mr. Gaither is the father of her child, and that he struck her twice in the face when she refused to go into the abortion …
Read more here:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5244/is_199710/ai_n19745447
***
* Michael Travis Bullock got his girlfriend pregnant but did not want the baby. Prosecutors say he laced the baby
@Bethany,
I did answer your query yesterday, but it seems to have gotten tangled in the automated que-line fr posts. If you can’t locate, it can be redone.
@Sally,
One of the factors that influenced our ancestors’ food choices was the difference in securing food and in its storage …. there was no ability to import foods across climate zones (eg. bananas, pineapple in winter?) … there were no grocery stores so that securing food demanded a much more involvement of muscles …. there were no refrigeration … foods were often preserved as fermented – milk, vegetables. grains. fish and meat too. The other method of storing was dehydration – jerky is a prime example.
All this seems straight forward until one notes how the body uses energy through the essential fatty acids. It seems that the human body is a highly complex machine that uses an array of different energies. So, in a way, we can say that humans are energy processing mechanisms. So we eat/select food to become more adapt to do what we are. Junk food buggers this system.
Carbohydrates vis the influence of insulin transforms into fat. (‘Lights Out’ by TS Wiley)
John, I can’t seem to find it…Did you post it and it was held up in the unpublished comments? I looked there and didn’t see it there either.
By the way, I wonder if you wouldn’t mind me adding your picture to the Who’s who page? :)
@Bethany,
re. the pic … fine if you’ve got one … no photos for a few years now …
as for the Brewer’s yeast … very god but unpallitable for most …. has been replaced by nutritional yeast …. simply sprinkled on foods just before eating then. A paste can be made just by mixing nutritional yeast with ghee or Extra Virgin Olive Oil (EVOO) … tastes like peanut-butter.
the barley green has lost much aproval because of its many added fillers … one of the best: http://www.naturesbetterway.com/greenlifepowder.htm
perhaps a better supplement to try now is colostrum at http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/tbrl/colpow.html then the sprouted grasses and chlorella for the summer at http://www.shokos.com/
@Bethany,
just posted again … same thing … I have multiple links … maybe the reason for it being ‘delayed’?
oh I just found it and am publishing it now, John; Thanks for reposting!
I’ll read it now.
Thank you for the information, John….It’s good to hear your insight on those.
Most girls are emotionally unstable to begin with and from that pool of girls many of them violently murder their babies.
Most girls are emotionally unstable to begin with and from that pool of girls many of them violently murder their babies.
There’s the real Zeke coming out….
“Emotionally unstable”….
Oh, the irony.