I am a feminist and I am totally pro-choice, but what’s funny is when you say that people assume that you are pro-abortion.
I don’t love abortion but I want women to be able to choose and I don’t want white dudes in an office being able to make laws on things like this.
I mean what are we going to do – go back to clothes hangers?
~Ellen Page, star of Juno, as quoted by The Guardian, April 4
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Oh Ellen,
I thought you were different. I thought the role of Juno might have changed some things for you. I guess not. sigh
“I mean what are we going to do-go back to clothes hangers?”
Um. Women with severe self harm issues might but we are going to keep saving the lives of babies and their mothers…one at a time.
I am a pacifist and I am totally pro-life, but what’s funny is when you say that people assume that you are anti-woman.
I don’t hate women and I want women to be able to achieve equality and I want fetuses to achieve equality and I don’t want rich dudes in an office being able to make laws on things like this [here’s lookin’ at you, Leroy].
I mean, what are we going to do- go back to inequality?
I like my version better (though I still loved her in Whip It).
It’s really obvious she hasn’t gone beyond bumper sticker slogan thought on this issue.
Ellen Paige sounds like an old feminist from the 1970’s. She needs to enlighten herself on modern feminism. Real women shouldn’t blame “white men” for their problems. Certainly, a women wouldn’t say “they’re not pro-rape but want men to be able to choose”….
What about the babies? They don’t count for anything?
I notice she’s from Canada and from the comments at Jill’s by Canadians I understand that Canada is even more pro-abort than the U.S. so her attitude is not surprising. I’m disappointed in Ellen’s remarks and won’t be renting Juno any time soon even though the message is was pro-life and her performance was very good.
The clothes hanger stories weren’t as common as many are led to believe. They just happen to be the kind that are sensationalized by the pro-abort industry. I’m currently reading an interesting book by Leslie Reagan, When Abortion Was a Crime, Women, Medicine, and Law in the United States, 1867-1973. Here’s an excerpt from a book review at upress.edu:
“Reagan traces the practice and policing of abortion. While abortions have been typically portrayed as grim “back alley” operations, she finds that abortion providers often practiced openly and safely. Moreover, numerous physicians performed abortions, despite prohibitions by the state and the American Medical Association. Women often found cooperative practioners, but prosecution, public humiliation, loss of privacy, and inferior medical care were a constant threat.”
I am sure there were a couple of very desperate women who used a coat hanger but the pro aborts have exaggerated that just like the number of women dying before 1973.
Lies. All lies.
Note to Ellen:
These decisions are made before the clothes come off.
Hi Carla,
Just like people who so desperately want to kill themselves will eat drano, blind and cripple themselves with bullets to the head, blow their faces off, or permanently brain damage themselves with drug overdose. Those are just a few that I can recall.
I can think of far less gory and more certain ways of ending one’s life.
The human psyche is a very strange thing and who can ever understand what drives people to do such horrific injury to themselves? Same with women injured by “coathanger” abortions.
In the book “And I don’t want to live this life” Deborah Spungen recounts the tragic and deeply troubled life of her mentally ill daughter Nancy, who was killed by Sid Vicious. Mrs. Spungen was called to the emergency room when Nancy, then around age 14, was treated for attempting to induce abortion with a coathanger. In fact, Nancy was not pregnant and the doctor doubted she could even conceive. Mrs. Spungen viewed this incident as just another manifestation of her daughter’s mental illness, which had included previous suicide attempts and self injury. Nancy would continue to insist until her murder at age 20 that she had induced an illegal abortion.
Hi Janet,
You are correct. My cousin’s wife went to her OB/GYN for “menstrual extractions” years before Roe v Wade. The mother of the late actor Frank Sinatra was a midwife trained in abortion who had a very lucrative, albeit illegal, abortion business. Everyone, including the police certainly knew.
Our local abortionist performed abortions in his office before and after Roe. Everyone knew. I know one “pro-life” surgeon who sent his pregnant mistress to him. I have no doubt several prominent people sent pregnant wives, daughters, and mistresses to him as well.
Yes abortion, like drug dealing, contract killings, rape, etc. are all facts of life that no law will stop, but would one argue they should be legalized?
What are ‘we’ going to do, Ellen? I thought you didn’t LOVE abortion. What ‘we’ are you referring to? I don’t think anybody LOVES abortion…except abortionists. They’re the ‘white dudes in an office’ you DO entrust yourself to, apparently.
Hey Mary!!
Those that are intent upon self injurious behavior will certainly follow through, law or no law…. The legalization of abortion has certainly done all that it promised, right??!! ::eyeroll::
I thought there were white dudes in black cloaks that made Roe V Wade the “law of the land.” Could Ellen possibly be talking about them?
Feelin snarky.
“Guilty? Yes. No matter what the motive, love of ease, or a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent, the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed. It will burden her conscience in life, it will burden her soul in death; But oh, thrice guilty is he who drove her to the desperation which impelled her to the crime!”
Susan B Anthony
“When we consider that woman are treated as property, it is degrading to women that we should Treat our children as property to be disposed of as we see fit.”
Elizabeth Cady Stanton
Hi Carla,
Great point about the white dudes. Feminists had no problem with the 9 white dudes who gave us Roe v Wade.
We, as supporters of unborn human rights, must commit to doing everything we can when we once again prohibit this crime, not to allow criminal abortionists to practice “openly and ‘safely'”.
In the old days, enforcement was tragically spotty, but in the future we must have large numbers of pro-life volunteers who will work with law enforcement to expose and arrest criminal “doctors” who try to kill our unborn children. We must do everything in our power to suppress this crime. I believe it can be done if the commitment and resources are there.
Posted by: Mary at April 6, 2010 5:07 PM
I wasn’t aware that Thurgood Marshall was a “white guy.”
Anne,
You’re right, I stand corrected. It was one black dude and six white dudes. I wonder if Ellen has any problem with these white dudes, or for that matter a black dude making abortion law.
FINGERNAILS, ELLEN. FINGERNAILS!
(Sorry, I couldn’t resist.)
People assume pro-choice people are pro-abortion because frankly, they are for abortion, if not in every case or circumstance.
As Fr. Corapi said… “Admitting you’re pro-choice is the only phrase in the American language that leaves an open ended question unasked. What EXACTLY are you choosing when you say you’re pro-choice? What EXACTLY is a woman “choosing”? (all paraphrased but I think you get the point)
What EXACTLY is a woman “choosing”?
Posted by: Dirtdartwife at April 6, 2010 8:18 PM
The first thing that comes to my mind is peanut butter.
CHOICE = Peter Pan peanut butter.
Choosy mothers choose JIF, Janet. Oh, and LIFE!
Come on Ellen,
Why don’t you love abortion??
Later on in this interview, Ellen says if she could do something other than acting, it would be psychology, because she thinks they’re alike.
Uh…
??
Yeah, not putting too much stock in her abortion comments after that…
Free to good home-
My used copy of Juno.
Hi Carla,
LIFE isn’t a choice. It just IS.
FINGERNAILS, ELLEN. FINGERNAILS!
(Sorry, I couldn’t resist.)
Posted by: Marauder at April 6, 2010 8:03 PM
Really!! :)
Ok, Pro-Lifeers why not worry about your own uteruses and leave the Pro-Choicers to worry about what they do with theirs? I don’t understand why there needs to be this constant battle over vaginas & uteruses when you should just pay attention and care for your own little lady down there!
Honestly, I know one of you will comment on the fact that we are speaking about “human lives” here, and that I am an idiot for saying vaginas/uteruses; but where does that little zygote live for 9 months? it’s little squishy uterine home.
Abortion is what it is no matter if you are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice, God gave humans brains and thought processes and if a woman thinks about and chooses to “slaughter” (as pro-lifers would call it) the freshly exploded sperm head in the ovum then so be it.
We all think differently and thats great, but don’t tell someone they are stupid and baby killers when they think a certain way because that just makes you the one who is ignorant and close minded.
but where does that little zygote live for 9 months? it’s little squishy uterine home.
***************
I’d say calling it a “zygote” for 9 months would prove that *you* would be the ignorant one. It’s only a zygote for 4 days.
God gave humans brains and thought processes and if a woman thinks about and chooses to “slaughter” (as pro-lifers would call it) the freshly exploded sperm head in the ovum then so be it.
God gave humans brains, yes, but what we do with it is called “free will.” Thought processes can lead to many evils…murder, rape, etc. But so be it, right? I mean, whatevs. Who cares if one person’s “thought process” leans toward shooting up everyone he possibly can, right? No biggie.
By the way, pretending that abortion takes the life of a “freshly exploded sperm” is soooo disingenuous and stupid that I hesitated to point it out, but I’m gonna do it anyway. Please go take a biology class and learn what this is:
http://www.pathlights.com/abortion/images/8-week-unborn-baby.jpg
Yes, the first four days is a zygote and the fifth day it becomes a blastocyst.
Two haploid cells Sperm and Ovum come together to create the One singular diploid cell.
Don’t say I’ve never taken a biology class; but people such as Ann Coulter are wanting to give rights and laws to zygotes and that single diploid cell. As a pro-lifer you do think that life begins once the “sperm and the egg meet” correct?
Or when scientifically the sperm head melts into the ovum creating the diploid cell?
I am not even trying to start a faceless battle because comment wars on a blog are so immature, I asked the simple question of why we can’t agree to disagree and call it a day. Of course I knew in the back of my mind that I would not receive a non-bias answer, so in that case I will consult other people and ask them.
While I have my PHD for Psychology and working on my Masters for Biology I’ll be the one administering the SSRIs for the women who were mentally scarred by abortions. So excuse my attempt at not trying to sound like a science nerd and explain to you in simple terms the “moment of conception”.
Enjoy sitting at your computer, and thank you for your scrutiny of my post and thank you for not answering my question.
Have a great day! :)
oh & I chose JIF and LIFE. thanks ;)
I agree I think she should have said the irish abortion instead of the coat hanger remark… everyone knows that it works better if you let an irishman (preferably drunk) kick you in the stomach and throw you down the stairs.
Posted by: Danielle at April 7, 2010 1:14 AM
—-
When the zona pellucida is penetrated by a single sperm there is an instantaneous cortical reaction that occurs (in microseconds) that hardens the zona pellucida to prevent polyspermy. At that point, the egg is no longer an egg – the reaction has drastically altered it. With the presence of the sperms pronuclei within the same shielded space as the oocyte pronuclei it is now a matter of continuous development. You have individual life.
Here’s a discussion on this topic:
http://gerardnadal.com/2010/03/23/pro-life-academy-embryo-chapter-2/
Don’t be a moron, Danielle. You know full well that abortions aren’t done in the zygote or blastocyst stage, so your “argument” is pathetic and disingenuous. Abortions are done during the embryonic and fetal stages, and occasionally during the neonate stage, if the pesky little “clumps of cells” go and survive the first abortion attempt.
We all think differently and thats great, but don’t tell someone they are stupid and baby killers when they think a certain way because that just makes you the one who is ignorant and close minded.
Posted by: Danielle at April 7, 2010 12:21 AM
——-
Surely, with your PHD in Psychology, you must understand that there are behaviors that are abnormal. Do you understand akrasia? Would you say that abortion is akrasia event? Or is killing your own offspring a natural thing for human beings?
Why should the Susan Smiths of the US be incarcerated if killing your own offspring was normal, natural behavior?
You need to provide an argument Danielle – a rationale for your position. We see a great wrong being done through abortion, and you’re just denying it’s wrong.
And no – you would NOT “agree to disagree” about rape or murder or sexual slavery or any other act you consider an absolute moral wrong.
Wow, same old regurgitated rhetoric. They think they’re so clever when they mention white coats in control or coat hangers.
We’ve got police officers and judges telling us what we can and can not do every day. It helps maintain a civil society. Think about it – do we really want to live in a society where everything goes? Imagine if thievery became a choice. Hey, if you want to rob a bank, that’s your choice, feel free, no consequences. Doesn’t matter that people will get hurt and die, you go right ahead. Think of the horrific savagery that would fill the land if homicide in all forms was no longer illegal. The law has its place; in particular, it is there to protect the rights of others. Feminists are all about the rights of women – they seemingly care nothing for the rights of babies, not even female babies. Our land is filled with the blood of millions upon millions of dead babies and the feminists out there are walking about talking about the maniacal coat hangers that haunt their dreams. Maybe there is some symbolism to be found here.
Danielle, a new unique human life begins at amphimixis.
I don’t give a damn what you do with your uterus as long as it doesn’t involve killing another human being.
You’re being incredibly flip about human life, and honestly you disgust me.
Oh, and one more thing. We can never “agree to disagree” on this issue. We’re talking about the intentional killing of another human being.
Hi Danielle. Katie makes the excellent point that when we get down to the nitty gritty of the PRECISE “moment” (though some would argue it is a process) that we have a human organism, we are talking about a matter of probably around 24 hours after fertilization begins that every theory about when the new human organism begins to exists agrees. In other words, after 24 hours, everyone agrees that there is a human organism. Since pregnancy can’t even be detected until at least after implantation (I believe), there is certainly no way that the question of the precise moment of when the human organism exists at all touches upon the abortion question. Again, it is a moot point.
Why is it that we “white dudes” are blamed for everything? Is this not the easy and mindless way to explain the cause of many of today’s social problems? Yes, it’s also evidence of the destructive nature of the feminist movement…..the demonization of a large segment of the population.
Does it not take a “dude” to make a baby and in the vast majority of cases at the behest of the “dudette”?
Let’s not forget that abortion rights are not about womens’ rights but are about power. So, in bringing up the “dude” straw man argument here, Ellen unknowingly reveals what abortion is really about, i.e., power and not right vs. wrong. Unfortunately, she is not aware that she is just repeating the mantra of the abortion power lobby which ultimatley means she really hasn’t spent much time thinking very deeply about the issue. May I say that her view represents the shallow, easy view?
This is sad and a black mark on the feminist movement. The results? Two BILLION plus dead females worldwide since 1973. Makes no sense at all.
Perhaps all feminists should then be asking, “why are we killing our sisters?” Oh yeah, the “white dudes made us do it”.
Danielle,
As one who will be prescribing SSRI’s to her future patients who regret their abortions, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by keeping the status quo regarding legal abortion and CHOICE. The medical profession in general must take much of the blame as enablers of abortion over the last 50+ years.
if they won’t speak the truth, who will? They should be ashamed for being so morally weak.