by LauraLoo
When a café manager berates breastfeeding moms in public, ABC’s John Quiñones asks the question, “What Would You Do?”
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWihxpKTaJo[/youtube]
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Our society looks upon infants and children as “wrong”. The introduction of bottles as a way to feed a baby is not all that old – and everyone breast fed their child years ago. I believe this is a continuation of people thinking abortion is right and should be practiced if they (not the mother) deem that the mother should not be pregnant.
Thanks for posting. I had seen snippets of this video but never the whole thing. The video points up just how screwed up a society we’ve become. Breast feeding is natural and totally normal. If breast feeding bothers you, ask yourself why? Just your turn your head and go about your business. It does seem that pregnancy, breast feeding and motherhood itself are now deemed somewhat offensive.
That’s where I grew up in Brooklyn! Glad to see that most were supportive of the mothers. I’m obviously biased because Regina nursed all three of our children, but I’ve always seen it as natural and beautiful. What would I have done? Blistered the fool’s ears.
I support breastfeeding. i think it is wonderful… HOWEVER when I was a retail manager I had mothers come in with their breasts fully exposed, hanging out as they suckled their babies. Just because one is breastfeeding that is no reason to be immodest. THAT is my only pet peeve with nursing mothers.
I was especially interested in the young man who tried to discourage the mother from harming her baby by drinking beer, while breast-feeding. I wonder if he would react with similar outspoken courage if he saw a woman entering an abortion business to kill her baby. We need to speak up for women and their children, by being present at the abortion business Sidewalk, offering hope, support, and encouragement.
I think however, upon viewing the video that its interesting that our society has no problem with girls with tops so low their cleavage is spilling out but has a problem with breast feeding moms. I want women to be discreet and modest when breastfeeding in public but I also want women in general to cover up more and stop being an occasion of sin for men. The Bible says if a man looks on a woman and lusts after her he has committed adultery WITH her (meaning the woman is culpable also) in his heart. Women need to remember that men are very visual and stop displaying our bodies so openly. My body is reserved for my husband to enjoy in private. I don’t need to advertise my goods to every man in the world.
I say, ladies, let it hang out as much as you want while breastfeeding. It’ll be educational to men (yes, guys, they’re actually valuable to someone other than you!). And, apparently, women.
This video-setup is bunk. Of all the hundreds of nursing moms I’ve seen in public, ALL of them use a modesty blanket of some kind. Even when visiting a Catholic family in their home, moms use a blanket. I’ve never seen a mother in public NOT use one.
Only ONCE have I seen a mother not use a blanket, and she was sitting on the steps of a church as opposed to sitting in a restaurant. Having nursed 4 or 5 kids previous, she didn’t seem to worried about exposing one breast.
Well Cranky, I once saw a young woman at a flea market walking along with her baby and conversing with a young man (not sure if he was the baby’s father or the young woman’s brother). She had no baby blanket or anything, and she had a button-up shirt on. As I walked by her with MY brother, she just “whipped out” her breast and stuck it in the baby’s mouth, all the while continuing her conversation…right in front of EVERYONE.
I agree with Sydney. I’m all for breast-feeding (I nursed my preemie baby as long as I could), but I do think mothers need to show some MODESTY when doing so in public.
As a child, I also saw a friend of my grandmother’s brother do the same thing (sans blanket) in a room full of men. Even as a child I felt a little uncomfortable with that.
I agree with Sydney M. and others. That smock/blanket that Mrs. Dugger has used is the proper way.
Having nursed 3 children, I can tell you that throwing a blanket over the baby isn’t always as easy as it sounds. If a child is used to nursing without a blanket at home, that child (like all 3 of mine) may be uncomfortable having a blanket over his/her head out in public, and can pull at the blanket or cry. That has been my experience.
I don’t hide under a blanket at home, so my kids didn’t “get it” when I tried to do that elsewhere. That being said, I typically excused myself to a private place or even to my car if I needed to nurse my babies – mainly because I just don’t feel comfortable nursing in front of total strangers.
As long as the mom keeps herself covered, everyone should leave her alone.
It made me really mad to see that people were less likely to come to the teen mom’s defense. Teen mothers deserve support and congratulations just like anyone else. The woman who did come to her rescue made me want to stand up and cheer!
And I have to admit I was also glad to see the mother drinking alcohol get called out for it. That’s disgusting. What will you do when the baby’s a toddler, mix a bottle of tequila into a sippy cup so naptime comes faster?
Lactivists of the world unite.
It is totally natural.
Brings to mind a line from the C&W PSA about breastfeeding I heard on the radio:
‘I will never forget that look in my mom’s eye when she gave from her heart or somethin nearby.’
Like most american males I am fixated by female breasts [Maybe it is because I was breast fed as an infant.], but I am uncomfortable when some nursing moms whip out the milk machine and do a loop de loo [like Buffalo Bob with his lariat] before baby has the opportunity to latch on.
Maybe that particular motion facilitates ‘let down’, I don’t know.
Poor kids, when their eyesight has matured enough to focus on the object of their desire, the resultant tracking will probably given them a detached retina, whip lash or a concussion.
It would be the rare male who would rather endure the squawl of an unhappy infant than the sight of a nursing mom.
Given the option, I know which one I would choose.
[I remember when the feds tried unsuccessfully to get the Branch Davidians to surrender. They used huge speakers and amplifiers to play chanting priests and heavy metal all night long. They should have played a recording of the squawling of an unhappy infant. No man or woman could long endure that sound.]
My beloved wife breast fed all five of our children when they were infants.
‘Let your fountain [of human life] be blessed [with the rewards of fidelity], and rejoice in the wife of your youth.
‘Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant doe [tender, gentle, attractive] — let her bosom satisfy you at all times, and always be transported with delight in her love.’
I thought of that verse when she would get up for the 2am feedings.
Sorry, men. That’s what those are actually FOR. Get freaking used to it, and get over yourselves.
If someone had a problem with me feeding my child in public, I’d tell them there was another part of my body they could see if they prefer: my butt, when they kiss it.
Sorry, men. That’s what those are actually FOR. Get freaking used to it, and get over yourselves.
Actually that is not all ‘those [ta-ta’s] are actually FOR.’
My youngest daughter is 20 years old. If my memory and my math serve me correctly, my wife’s breasts have not been used for nursing a baby for over 18 years.
But her ‘fountains of life’ still get put to good use and it is no longer for 2am feedings, as in
…’let her bosom satisfy you at all times, and always be transported with delight in her love.’
“If someone had a problem with me feeding my child in public, I’d tell them there was another part of my body they could see if they prefer: my butt, when they kiss it.”
And even the most uncouth redneck might have a problem with you baring your gluteous maximus while they are eating pizza and drinkin’ beer.
I would like to get a picture of that.
Willl it require a wide angle lense or can I just get one bun at a time and minimize and merge the two separate images and print to space available?
http://www.themakeoverguy.com/2009/10/does-this-make-my-butt-look-big-how-to-balance-your-bottom-line.php
Whatever suits you best, ken. Did you also giggle in high school biology every time the teacher said “sex”, or did you not get that far in school?
I find it interesting that part of the pro-life response to abortion rightfully argues how it continues the objectification of women, but when presented with the idea of a mother nursing and perhaps not covering herself, that this is considered to be immodest. It is only immodest in so far as the society has claimed women’s natural femininity as something to be objectified. The sexual objectification of women is (in part) a root of abortion just as it is a root of those being repelled by a nursing mother. You will find in aborigines tribes when interviewed about breastfeeding and the West’s objectification of breasts as (practically) solely sexual objects they laugh hysterically that “men would act like the little babies.” Over time our society has viewed them more strictly as being for something other than what they were created the more we continue to objectify women.
When people have an issue with a woman nursing in public, I tend to think that it is a manifestation of the problem they have with puritanical scrupulousness or sexual objectification-which often go hand in hand.
Breast feeding is completely natural. If someone doesn’t like it they can avert their eyes. I get uncomfortable when I see it, so I don’t look. Simple as that.
And ken, you really sound immature here.
Kris, someone already pointed out the passage of Song of Solomon where it says that the wife’s breasts will satisfy her husband. Men of all cultures seem to really like breasts so I don’t think its a cultural thing that “society” has “objectified” women. Breasts are both for nurturing AND they are sexual. The two functions are not in opposition to each other.
I’ve been convicted lately about modesty (my modesty) and talking to my husband has given me new perspective on how men think. Breasts excite men! There is nothing wrong with that but we ladies just need to be *aware* of that.
Women are sexually alluring to men. That is not objectifying that is biology. It is important that women are still seen as whole persons and not JUST a sexual being but that doesn’t mean we divorce sexuality from women either. I am a sexual being and I love that my husband is drawn to that side of me. But I know that he sees me as a whole person so I don’t feel objectified.
And btw, yes breastfeeding is natural but so is peeing. Yet I don’t want to see a man whip out his wang in front of me and start urinating! Why does everyone bristle when modesty is suggested? I WAS a breastfeeding mother at one time and I am saying COVER UP or find a private place to nurse if you can’t. I am a woman with my own set of breasts and yet seeing another woman letting hers hang out while nursing makes ME uncomfortable!
Men of all cultures seem to really like breasts so I don’t think its a cultural thing that “society” has “objectified” women.
I would disagree with this. It is not all cultures. You can also see the change throughout history.
Breasts are both for nurturing AND they are sexual.
Yes. I would agree with you to a point. There is a difference between the Song of Solomon in regards to breasts satisfying the husband to an extent and to the total objectification and dare I say p*rnification of women’s breasts and chalking that up to men naturally being allured by the sexuality of women. It is this latter issue that continues to feed into and culturally condition us to believe that the natural process of a woman feeding her child is an uncomfortable situation.
And btw, yes breastfeeding is natural but so is peeing. Yet I don’t want to see a man whip out his wang in front of me and start urinating!
You are comparing excreting waste to a woman feeding and nurturing her child the way God intended? Eating is not immodest. The baby is eating.
This whole “We’re gonna make breasts non-sexual” makes me just chuckle. Do whatever you want but you all are wasting your time. Breasts have always been and will always be sexual.
I am comparing a man excreting waste with breastfeeding because someone attempted to defend immodest breastfeeding with “but its natural.” I am just showing that being “natural” doesn’t always mean it should be showcased publicly. Sex, urination, etc… very natural. Still don’t wanna see it in a public arena.
I am for breastfeeding! It help lowers a woman’s breast cancer risk and it is super healthy for the baby’s development. So why don’t women just make sure they are doing it modestly? Again, why all the bristling from some people when modesty is suggested? Its a solution that makes everyone happy!
Reminds me of the stem cell debate. Why can’t we just focus on adult stem cells that we all agree has potential? But no, some on the other side just can’t give up their “destroy embryos at any cost” mindset. They are going to have ESC even if the ill among us continue to suffer.
Modesty is the compromise that makes everyone happy!
Sidney, I don’t know about most men, but I don’t find breast feeding sexual at all, even when it was my own wife breast feeding. It just a baby eating. sure it might be a little awkward, but I have the option of not looking. I find it much, much more inappropriate when young girls dress sexy than when a woman breast feeds. One is blatantly sexual, the other is nourishing a kid.
I’m actually with Gerard on this.
Too much information ken!
I’m glad you’re here xalisae, I need your help. I’ve really tried but I cannot identify three autobiographies penned by obama. Can you please give me their titles?
And some people have sexualized shoes and feet. There are people who have foot fetishes. Does that mean I’m not going to go out in sandals or flip-flops during summer because some people see feet sexually? No. That’s ridiculous.
Other people’s sexual habits, kinks, hang-ups, or desires are none of my concern. So thanks to the law, I will continue what I’ve been doing and everyone else can go their merry way with their noses in the air saying “Why I never!” and it won’t bother me none.
Thanks, Kris. Your comments have been very insightful and much less blunt than I care to be on this topic. *applause*
ninek already posted them in the other thread, Reality. Cheers!
Its a solution that makes everyone happy!
Not if I’m out longer than I expected, I have no blanket, and happen to be wearing a shirt that doesn’t accommodate breastfeeding very well. I’m not going to let my kid go hungry, feed him/her in a hot car or a dirty bathroom just to appease someone else’s prudish sensibilities about me using my breasts for that which they were biologically intended. Get over it.
No she didn’t xalisae. She gave me some titles of books which simply don’t exist.
I did find some roughly similar titles and they were penned by obama.
But only one of them is anything like an autobiography.
So can you please tell me what the titles of obama’s other two autobiographies are?
The only of Obama’s that I read was Audacity of Hope, and it didn’t read like an autobiography. Dreams of My Father was apparently an autobiography, I don’t know what the third book is.
I have to say, for those of you freaked out about a nursing mom having a drink, you guys really should try to be more evidence based about your concern. A drink, or three, does not hurt a nursing baby. In fact many people recognize that ale or hoppy beer is good for lactation, and red wine is just plain good for you (in moderation). For baby to get a dangerous amount of alcohol through breastmilk a mom would have to be approaching .18 on the blood alcohol level, that’s twice the legal limit in many places. Most of the world continues to drink minimumly or moderately throughout pregnancy and nursing, with not ill effect. It’s only getting well and truly drunk that’s a problem. So stop getting twisted out of shape about a nursing (or pregnant) mom having a beer or a glass of wine, it’s normal, healthy, and not remotely dangerous even to a newborn.
Yeah, that’s what I found Jack.
Yet xalisae claimed that obama was arrogant because he had written, as she put it “THREE. AUTOBIOGRAPHIES. THREE”
So I don’t know what they are.
Audacity of Hope is one. Dreams From My Father, and I guess I was mistaken about the third. That was actually complied by someone else, but he still was credited as an author of “Barrak Obama In His Own Words” and it was listed as an autobiography. Even if he was directly responsible for only two, that’s an awful lot of pomp from someone who hadn’t yet encountered the circumstance of the presidency. Conceited beyond belief, imo.
Audacity of Hope wasn’t an autobiography though.
Audacity of hope simply is not an autobiography xalisae.
Dreams from my father pretty much is an autobiography.
Sounds like you’re fishing around for a possible third one.
So there is one obama autobiography. One.
He was not directly responsible for two.
“Pomp”? Many politicans and others of similar ilk publish numerous books, some autobiographical, some not. Obama’s output is far from conceited in any comparison.
Jespren: So stop getting twisted out of shape about a nursing (or pregnant) mom having a beer or a glass of wine, it’s normal, healthy, and not remotely dangerous even to a newborn.
Right on – good grief, so much being prudish, so much hand-wringing and whining and moaning about alcohol, breasts, etc….
Xalisae, I wouldn’t expect you to understand modesty. I wasn’t really addressing you personally anyways. It was a standard God gave to Christian women. Christian women are held to a higher standard than the world. I wouldn’t expect you to get it or agree with it.
If you don’t plan ahead and wear a good shirt for breastfeeding (why would you not when you are nursing?) or stay out longer I still don’t want to see your boobs. I’ve seen moms who were modest and didn’t have a blanket. I am not saying every mom has to have a blanket but there is a modest way and a selfish “I don’t care what you think or if I offend anyone I am doing what I want the way I want” whipping out of areola etc… I had moms conversing with me as their babies hung off their nipples… everything just hanging out. It was gross! I do not want to see other women’s bodies, thanks! I feel that way about a lot of bathing suits at the beach. I don’t think not wanting to see everyone’s body parts is prudish. Lets face it, some people have ugly bodies! lol. Respect my right not to have my mind seared with these images.
But go ahead and whip out your boobies. Just don’t be surprised when some people say something to you. If you are going to get in a tizzy over it then be proactive and PLAN AHEAD and think of a modest way to nurse.
We live in such a society where its all about us and we don’t care who is around us. I respect a mom’s right to nurse, please respect my right not to see your mammaries hanging out!
Xalisae, I wouldn’t expect you to understand modesty. I wasn’t really addressing you personally anyways. It was a standard God gave to Christian women. Christian women are held to a higher standard than the world. I wouldn’t expect you to get it or agree with it.
Sydney, I’m sorry, but this is not a very kind way to address Xalisae, or anyone for that matter. :( I understand that you disagree here. Everyone – including Christians – has different standards of modesty.
Oh. So you’re not prudish, you’re shallow. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Kel, I wasn’t trying to sound unkind.
Kel, that is my point. Everyone has different standards of modesty. For me the only standard that matters is God’s. I understand Xalisae is an atheist so why would she understand where I’m coming from? That is my point.
Somehow that makes me shallow X? Thanks. You’re supposed to attack IDEAS not people remember?
I apologize to you if what I said offended you. I didn’t mean for it to, but I’m not surprised.
Good riddens to all of you. I’m so over this site.
Oh, don’t get me wrong Doug, I’m about as prudish as they come, but it’s hard to take the ‘ack! Don’t let me see a breast!’ Crowd serious when in times of *much* greater modesty, when women were covered neck to toe, and sometimes head to toe, it was neither immodest, scandleous, or out of place to see the whole breast from tip to chest stuck out there for the baby/toddler to nurse on. We know from murals and art and written accounts that showing the breast to nurse was not considered immodest, by Jews or by early Christians (nor later Christians until fairly recently). The breast can be a sexual, husband only thing at the same time as it can be a ‘hung out there for baby’ thing. I’ve breastfed (well, still breastfeeding) my two little ones, and I ‘modestly’ cover when we are out, but it’s out of deference to my husband, not out of any sense that God would find me “whipping out” my breast immodest. We’re one of the only cultures in the world who finds a nursing woman’s breasts to be immodest.
And Sydney, absolutely Christian woman are held to a higher standard, but you’re fooling yourself if you think the women of the early Church demurely covered their babies and their exposed breast with a blanket. There are *plenty* of works of art, secular, Jewish, and Christian from the 1st few centuries showing woman nursing, the fertile breast with it’s life’s milk wasn’t something to be ashamed of. I cover because it makes my husband uncomfortable, because he does have some of the screwed up views on breasts and breastfeeding indicative to this age, but those are not normal views, and anyone who thinks anything other than ‘ahh, look at the sweet baby getting some mama milk!’ When they see a baby reaching for an exposed breast, or nursing sweetly with their head leaned against soft flesh, needs to ask themselves why, take their thoughts captive as Christ commands, and change their thinking.
I thought X was no longer an atheist. I could be wrong, though.
And even if she IS an atheist, why do you necessarily believe it’s impossible for an atheist to hold the same view on modesty as you? We have pro-life atheists, why not modest ones? :D
I’m kinda surprised here – you seem to be under the impression that God holds a certain standard of modesty for public breastfeeding that is exactly the same as yours – that women should have blankets and not “whip out [their] boobies” in public to feed the children He gave them. Is this correct?
xalisae, I love everything you’ve said in this discussion.
My boss had a baby some time ago and spent three months working from home. Twice a week, I’d schlep the new paperwork up to her apartment, sit with her to exchange info, and schlep the paperwork she’d already completed back to the office. During just about every one of our sessions, she’d breastfeed her daughter. No covering up or anything. I didn’t think it was at all strange or exposed. Yeah, she was in her own home, but it NEVER struck me as anything she should have to cover up in public. For most of the time, most of what you could see unless you looked pretty hard was the back of a baby’s head. Big deal.
If “modesty is for Christian women” then this conversation has made me glad not to be a Christian woman, that’s for sure.
Jespren, what a great post. I agree.
If “modesty is for Christian women” then this conversation has made me glad not to be a Christian woman, that’s for sure.
I happen to be a modest Christian woman. But not modest enough for some among my own faith. I recently read something by a fellow Christian stating wearing pants was immodest because it “shows the form of the body.” Well, excuse me, but I am proud to be a woman, and I hate dresses, and I have the freedom in Christ to wear pants, thankyouverymuch! How ’bout we Christians stop setting arbitrary, manmade rules for the modesty of women and deal a little more with issues of the HEART like… oh, I don’t know… lust?
Apparently, Sydney, your God is not my God, because He doesn’t give a flip about me breastfeeding my baby in public. Sorry if my body disgusts you. :3
When they see a baby reaching for an exposed breast, or nursing sweetly with their head leaned against soft flesh, needs to ask themselves why, take their thoughts captive as Christ commands, and change their thinking.
This bears repeating.
Wow, never seen so much talk of boobs!
Seriously though, I don’t understand why American society is so worried about public breast feeding when it is so acceptable for underage girls to run around in less clothes than their underwear. The second issue is far more troubling, in my opinion. Talking about modesty, start there!
Thank you Kel. :)
I like your 11:07 comment as well, Kel. It seems like lust – usually in men – usually gets shunted off as an occasion of sin that women could prevent, with lots of arbitrary conditions women should follow that vary wildly, mostly depending on what the individual speaker finds most attractive. I don’t really see much fretting about being an occasion of sin for the other big baddies, but maybe that’s because I am not a Christian. Personally I think we could use a good conversation about occasions of sin for gluttony and vanity.
If anyone ever told me that me feeding my [hypothetical] baby made me an occasion of sin for lust, I’d tell them they were an occasion of sin for wrath, and to kindly avert their eyes so that neither of us had to be sinning. Really, ‘look away and myob’ covers so much of common etiquette.
But don’t get me started on those people who listen to loud music that spills out of their headphones on the subway. There’s no such thing as “listening away.” MY god ranks leaky headphones over breastfeeding, in the sin department. Grrrrr.
Jack – right on! :D
Oh and a massive “ditto” to Jespren’s comment as well!
If anyone ever told me that me feeding my [hypothetical] baby made me an occasion of sin for lust, I’d tell them they were an occasion of sin for wrath, and to kindly avert their eyes so that neither of us had to be sinning. Really, ‘look away and myob’ covers so much of common etiquette.
I love you, Alexandra. *HEARTS* to you, Kel, and all the non-looking men who are iffy on the subject.
The notion that one must a.) be Christian in order to be modest, and b.) have a uniform opinion of what modesty is if they are Christian are dually laughable.
Me not having a shirt tailored to breastfeeding is not out of immodesty. It’s out of being poor, and not having the money to buy shirts for that purpose. When I first started breastfeeding and was met with the need to do so in public, my first feelings were fear and embarrassment, mostly because of attitudes like Sydney’s. Once I became pressed to breastfeed in public more often, eventually I didn’t give two squats about people like Sydney, because I had a hungry baby to feed and her opinion was more important to me than theirs. By the time I had my son (a fat little exclusively breastfed little Curly Howard that was always hungry and refused even pacifiers) I honestly couldn’t care less about anyone else’s opinion, because I was happy my son was as healthy as he was, and I was proud of him and myself (I was a high-yield momma. Woohoo!).
I wear pants. I wear t-shirts. You will NEVER see me in shorts, let alone short-shorts. You will NEVER see me in tank-tops unless I’m wearing one as an undershirt to make sure I’m covered. Because guess what: there’s a HUGE difference between the intent of showing my boobs purposefully to attempt to appeal to men and feeding my kids. Anyone who can’t understand that has a problem with their wiring.
“ Because guess what: there’s a HUGE difference between the intent of showing my boobs purposefully to attempt to appeal to men and feeding my kids. Anyone who can’t understand that has a problem with their wiring.”
Exactly. Breast feeding isn’t meant to be erotic. It’s the natural way to feed a kid. Men who have a lust issue with it, or women who think it’s “immodest” for whatever reason, are putting their own interpretations into it that really don’t exist. I didn’t love watching my wife breast feed our kids because it was sexy, I loved it because it was nice to watch them bond. I don’t “look” when women breast feed in public because I don’t think it’s appropriate for me to look, not because there is anything wrong or immodest. Really, not a big deal. There are a gazillion modesty issues society should tackle, nursing isn’t one of them.
Kel: I’ve never understood the traditions that think pants are too sexy. I think that’s insane. Yes, pants show all the curves. And a tight halter top leaves little to the imagination.
But that’s actually the point — in reverse. A dress that hides things juuust enough to get a guy interested and let our imagination work behind the scenes — now that’s what gets me worried about just how deep my lust goes. ;-)
Once I catch sight of an 455 in tight jeans, the imagination cedes control to the conscious volition and I either look to other things or, erm, don’t. But when all I get is a hint of a thigh under some light fabric that glides along and flows around a different part of the leg with each mischievous zephyr or graceful motion — my imagination is now fully engaged.
If lust is an enemy, the tight jeans are like that big guy with the scimitar in Raiders of the Lost Ark. You know where you stand, and you whip out your gun and shoot ‘im dead and move on. (good grief, that’s more double entendres than I thought even I could Freudianly stumble into…)
But a dress that hides things while offering a constantly changing variation of contours — now that’s like a legion of clandestine operatives and double agents in the psyche. They’re Manchurian candidates. They come out of left field.
The dress declares “this is hidden,” yet the mind laughs off that assurance, knowing that the eyes can touch what the hands dare not, and that the journey is more interesting than the destination.
This is also why I’m angry when my kids — rarely, ’cause they’ve learned well — use proxy words: “Look at the beeping dog!” Few things anger me more, because they’re causing their hearers to fill in the blanks inside their own brains. I think that’s mean — for the same reasons I think dresses can be way, way more sexy than tight jeans. My own mind fills in the details (not explicitly, interestingly; my brain wants the book to keep telling the story — not reach some final chapter).
Jeans are television. Dresses are radio. And we all know the pictures are better on the radio. ;-)
We’ve all seen the movies where the military guys go from room to room: “CLEAR!” It’s safe once you’ve exposed everything. It’s when you haven’t seen everything that’s there to see that you’re still in danger.
I could keep up the analogies all night — but then I’d probably need a cold shower. LOL
Sydney M.,
Please don’t leave this site. Everyone will get off their high horses on this thread and trundle off to the next one. :)
So, I’m with you. Though it’s not so much a lustful feeling as a queasy one that I’ve had the few times I’ve seen breastfeeding. Because we’re usually not talking about Wonder Woman breasts, as a rule. :)
No one likes the concept of modesty? You’re telling us to just shove off and mind our own business? Is “having a sense of privacy” a better way to put it? Just because of a ridiculous mirage of a penumbra of privacy in the Constitution claimed by nine men in black in 1973, let’s not make “privacy” a dirty word.
We’re arguing a happy medium between a burka and nudity, it would seem. Many of you are jutting your chin up and saying: “I am woman! Watch me breastfeed!” A few of us are meekly saying: “Too much (visual) information!”
Call us prudes, if you must. I plead guilty. Call us “goody-two-shoes”, if you must as well. I’ve always thought it better to be good than bad. And I also prefer to wear two shoes instead of just one. I find my walk in life to be much smoother that way.
I’m not calling you prudes anymore. Because of quotes like this: Though it’s not so much a lustful feeling as a queasy one that I’ve had the few times I’ve seen breastfeeding. Because we’re usually not talking about Wonder Woman breasts, as a rule.
and this:
Lets face it, some people have ugly bodies! lol. Respect my right not to have my mind seared with these images.
Now I think you guys are just veiling your shallowness in a faux modesty.
Yep, you’re obviously too deep for me. Wouldn’t it be shallow to “check out” someone breastfeeding? And it’s not “we guys” who are trying to be modest, faux or vrai. We’re just suggesting it for “youse”.
This is beginning to have an exhibitionist tinge. And decidedly unveiled. Which is the point. Some bodily functions should be veiled, thank you very much.
Wouldn’t it be shallow to “check out” someone breastfeeding?
Yes, it would. And frankly, rather disgusting. If you can look at a mother feeding her child, bonding with him/her, and think, “Man, I’d sure like to do her.” you have a freaking screw loose.
Sorry my body is so gross and disgusting it offends you. but everyone in the world is not a sex object for you to rate by want, trying to tempt you paragons of virtue to sin, oh righteous ones.
The next time you’re eating a sandwich on your lunch hour, I hope someone comes up to you and says, “UGH! GEEZE, BUDDY, CAN YOU PUT THAT AWAY AND CLOSE THAT GAPING BODILY ORIFICE OF YOURS? THAT IS SICK AND DISGUSTING!”
Veil yourself.
You go, girl! No, really. Go. All right then, I will. ‘Night!
I’ll take that “You win.” Goodnight.
When I was breast feeding I tried to be as modest as possible. I couldn’t use a blanket because offspring would pull the blanket down, but I did my best to be modest and respectful.
JackBorsch says: July 8, 2011 at 6:05 pm
“And ken, you really sound immature here.”
JB,
And the X woman telling anyone who disagrees with her to ‘kiss her buttocks’ is ‘mature’.
Right…..
I once attempted to have a mature discussion with you but your feeling prevented you from fully engaging your intellect. The problem for me is knowing beforehand just what topics are likely to cause you discomfort.
Maybe it is you who shoud exercise caution you decide to read what others have written.
Maybe feeble attempts at humor are bothersome for you.
For the record: Nursing is a perfectly natural function for post partum moms, but the nursing mom should be aware of her surroundings and take care not to offend the sensibilities of the more genteel persons who might be offended by her natural bodily function.
Flatulence is also a natural bodily function common to every human, but I try to be cognizant where I am and who is around me before I relieve myself.
Once more with not so much feeling to make myself clear. I thought Sydney was being kicked around unfairly. One person’s “modest” appears to be another’s “prudish”.
It’s a debate over public vs. private behavior. I believe passionate kissing, fat guys in speed-os, and, yes, whenever possible breastfeeding, are better left in private.
In any case I won’t call the cops. I won’t storm away in disgust. I’ll merely move on. And I won’t be traumatized. It’s really not that important.
I am all for breastfeeding! It’s neither disgusting nor lust-inducing to me. It’s the best thing for nutrition and bonding. Mazel tov! Live long and prosper! Greetings and felicitaions!
But might I just humbly ask we should make, whenever possible, an effort to keep intimate bahavior…well, intimate?
Ken,
It is probably the way you come across that I find irritating. A lot of your comments seem to me fairly offensive and down right sexist in some cases. So I say so. You are under no obligation to actually listen to me, but I’ll most likely point out when it bothers me. And for the record, I also thought xalisae went over the top with some of her comments.
Why exactly are you bringing up a discussion we had weeks ago, in which some people thought I was correct and others agreed with you? Saying that I didn’t engage my intellect is false. I may have been more emotional than you, but it was an emotional subject for me, not you. I still managed to bring objective facts and opinions to the table, though I was probably more heated than I should have been.
My kids’ lunch is no more “intimate” than yours. Makes me wonder what you guys are doing with your steak sandwiches.
Hans Johnson, but why is feeding a baby intimate? No other form of eating is considered intimate. Do you think bottle feeding a baby should be done, whenever possible, in private? Our society (most societies!) *loves* to eat out. To gather for meals. To celebrate with food. Why is the prefered, natural, and best way to feed our young a form or food that is ‘intimate’ when every *other* form of feeding is considered public? If you have a gaggle of people together eating, why should 2 have to leave because of one of their ages? Breastfeeding is how we are supposed to feed our young, and it’s just as natural, normal, and socialable as eating with a fork. I have 2 *very* social kids. They love to be included and to be around people. Removing them from a social gathering to feed them, frankly, confuses them. They get upset, and even if they’ve just eaten, demand to eat again when we come back out in public. They don’t understand why their food is ‘intimate’ while our food is social. That some people feel like breastfeeding should be intimate is a fact of modern American life. But that isn’t a natural, normal, or sensical though process. So why should women and children be held accountable to other’s faulty though process? Isn’t the logical, thoughful, and humane thing to do to suggest that anyone suffering under such a delusional thought process take a deep breath, get a hold of their thoughts, and focus on changing their additude? It makes *much* more sense for an adult to be expected to change a faulty worldview (one form of eating is private while others are public) than it is to expect or ask the most fragile members of society, our very young, to live their lives around that faulty worldview (you can only eat when you are alone with mom).
xalisae,
Apparently you’ve never seen Man v. Food on the Travel Channel. You wouldn’t want to watch that either! :)
Okay, now I really do give in. Let’s not make this thread like one of those 20-foot diameter balls of string in the Guinness Book of World Records! :)
Jespren,
You do have to admit that breastfeeding is a bit more intimate than bottlefeeding. Among extended family, fine. In a stuck elevator, fine. In public, it’s more attention-getting than handing a kid an ice cream cone.
But anyway, it’s really not that much of a big deal to me. Do whatever makes you feel right. It’s no great wrong to me.
Hans, you do realize that through out most of the world today and through out almost all of history breasting isn’t/wasn’t any more attention grabbing than handing a kid an icecream cone? That you *think* it is, is more or less my point. That is a *very* unusual viewpoint for the balance of history and people. It just doesn’t *seem* all that unusual because the tiny percentage of people who also think that tend to congregate in modern U.S.A.
I can’t help watching a baby no matter what he is doing – sleeping, eating, nursing. Like fish in a tank, laundry in a dryer, and knitting needles in motion — some things constantly hold my attention.
Jespren,
Well, in Scandinavia and much of the world kids frolic in the nude like so many cherubs. Human behavior has many shades of gray. I just think that our society is not quite so enamored with public exposure. That’s why they’re called “privates”.
Jespren: We’re one of the only cultures in the world who finds a nursing woman’s breasts to be immodest.
Yeah, uptight parents pass it on to their kids.
wow. well, I hadn’t stopped by here in months, and thanks to Your Bro Ken’s comments on this thread, I feel like I need to shower, exfoliate, and then rinse my eyes for a good two hours to get rid of the creepy. SHUDDER. I’m appreciative though, as this will keep me creeped out enough to not come back and spend time here…
X and Jespren – there’s little point in me even commenting on my feelings on this topic, because you both covered it so eloquently. I will add, however, that those who choose to use the “good Christian” thing as a cop out for being grossed out by breasts, should pay a bit more attention to the paintings and depictions of breastfeeding throughout the history of Christianity. The concept of modesty = hide your breasts while breastfeeding is a VERY new one and not soley based on concepts of Christian faith.
Yes, breastfeeding is intimate in the sense that it’s a bonding experience between Mom and Baby, but it’s not meant as an immodesty. It’s one of the more natural things about a woman’s body. The problem is, human beings aren’t perfect and so we don’t always view things the way they’re MEANT to be viewed.