by Hans Johnson
Todd Bullis of Abolish Human Abortion convinces a man named Babu to go inside an abortion clinic to stop his wife from aborting their child:
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
And, nothing wrong with that. It’s obvious she wasn’t sure about her decision.
Thank God Todd was there to talk some sense into that couple. I agree Merit. It’s amazing how us humans can be so deceived to the point of making horrendous decisions, even killing our own children in the womb.
Todd did a great job of warning this man of the negative consequences and the judgment he would face for this grievous sin. At the same time he encouraged him to be a hero, to be the man God’s called him to be.
Heaven is rejoicing!
In a couple months at the birth Babu and his wife will have joy beyond description, a few years from now they will look back and wonder how they could have been led so wrong initially. Society told them no, Planned Parenthood told them no, but someone was brave enough to tell them yes, and today a baby is alive because of it! A much needed pick-me-up today!
Ed H, I would go that far. The fact is she wasn’t sure about her decision.
Hi Ed H. How are you?
Merit is “pro-choice” for ( I will fill in the blank for her) “choosing to abort a baby if the mother is “sure” about her decision to kill her unborn but if she is unsure like this woman she thinks the baby’s life should be spared.”
So I guess we should give Merit credit for being half right, unfortunately the babies whose mothers are “sure” they want to abort she feels should have the “right to choose” a death sentence for their unborn. That’s my take on it anyway.
God bless you Ed. H. I will pray for Merit.
Yeah. And now a baby that was going to be killed is going to be allowed to be born. And it’s tragic that the child’s life hung in the balance of how his/her parents were feeling about him/her.
Prolifer L, if she isn’t sure, she shouldn’t have an abortion. Because if she does, she might become one of your anecdotes in the future.
BTW, I do not think Todd’s “God will hate you if you abort your baby” approach is considered appropriate by any of the pro-life sidewalk counselors that I know. We have a wonderful sidewalk counselors in our area who save babies but I do not think any would endorse this “God will hate you approach”.
Hans can you guys ask Pro-Life Action League to respond to this video please?
Just because she is “sure’ doesn’t make her baby any less “dead”. A fatal ”choice” she cannot take back. There are millions who want to adopt babies. I think Mother Theresa said something like “It is poverty to say that someone must die for you to live the life you want.” (Someone else please correct my quote if it is incorrect).
Because if she does, she might become one of your anecdotes in the future.
And what if she is 100% sure and later comes to believe that she made a grave mistake. Can she still become “one of our ‘anecdotes'”?
Pro-choicers HATE IT when women regret abortion, because it calls into question the morality of killing a child with total nonchalance.
I am SO glad Todd was there. I am glad that his words did not fall on deaf ears or a hardened heart.
However, I would also not have conversed in the manner you mentioned above, Prolifer L.
But that’s me. I would have spoken differently and I would have also made sure that I had pamphlets on fetal development and also handouts for where they can get tangible help. But perhaps that info was in the gift bag they handed to the mother. I don’t know.
I only know that as a former PRC director, this is not what worked with the abortion minded women I counseled.
BUT… We all have our different approaches, and we never truly know what is going to reach any given individual considering abortion. What matters is that we try.
I regret my abortion.
There ya go Kel. :)
I am going to see a day when the decision to abort will be legally mediated by the woman’s spouse. In a marriage, it cannot be her decision alone. And it will not be. Married men must be encouraged to litigate should a wife want to and/or murdered their preborn child w/o the husband’s consent. More lawsuits of such caliber, the shakier pro-abortionists’ “choice.”
Hey Prolifer L! I’m well and trusting you’re blessed also.
Yes I’m not sure I would have used Todd’s exact words but I do believe we can do people a disservice when we fail to warn them of the negative consequences of their sin. And in fact, it might have been partially due to Todd’s bold speech that this man reconsidered. Like you say, the important thing is that the baby was saved.
I believe that this is a major problem with the church in America today. There are so few prophets warning our generation of the wrath to come. God needs more Jonathan Cahn’s, author of The Harbinger, modern day John the Baptists, to prepare the way for the Lord’s return.
Take Merit for example, and I don’t mean to single her out because all of us were just like her. Ephesians says we were all once lost, alienated from the life of God, with hardened hearts, living according to our own fleshly desires. And even after we’re saved, we still struggle with the law of sin that wars within us. Yes someone has to share with her Our Savior’s abundant love and mercy. But at the same time, she needs to be told that there is a very real and horrific judgment prepared for the devil, his demons, and those who fail to repent from their sins.
It’s downright frightening to consider the precarious position of the lost and the eternal ramifications of their decisions. Many of us diligently and prudently plan for our retirement. How many of us are seriously making the necessary preparations for our eternity?
And of course correction must come from a heart of genuine concern and empathy, not the self-righteous heart of a legalist.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that there needs to be a balance to our message and just like graphic abortion pictures, people need to know the whole truth regarding our sinful condition.
Regarding whether God hates someone who spills innocent blood – the pro-life guy was given the opportunity to intercede, and he did. Was he scripturally accurate? Maybe, maybe not. We can clear that up pretty well, as long as we can flip through our Bibles and figure out if there is one or more scriptures where God says he hated those who spill innocent blood.
Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of God saying he hates is divorce.
But these real-world issues and questions are the ways I develop my own Bible studies.
If he is wrong, how should we regard this?
I myself would give the guy the benefit of the doubt and judge that he was earnestly trying to be Biblical – to stick to the standard of truth he knows – and trying to save a life when he saw the opportunity. If he said the wrong thing, or had the emphasis wrong, I am willing to say: OK, let’s accept the error, then let’s all go on to be clear about what is and is not scripturally accurate.
As I have said before, I support a local crisis pregnancy center. They strive to follow Biblical principles in their ways of providing their services. They also pray regularly for guidance — I once attempted to reach the director by phone one day at the reasonable hour of 9:15AM, and learned she and everyone else were in the daily morning prayer. Daily.
Sure, they could go off-track. But how far before a member of the board, or a donor, or volunteer, checks actions against scripture, and says something? Trust me: not too far.
Many law enforcement and emergency teams have a policy of reviewing events to consider how well standing procedures work, and review whether they adhered to procedures, and whether procedures ought to be modified to cover more of the rare but crucial events.
So, sidewalk counselors cannot be perfect, but can review what would be good actions.
I know this happens on the pro-life side.
As we have seen in the recent couple of years, we are pretty darn sure: the abortion providers do not check themselves. They also actively lobby against govt oversight and regulation of such.
There you have it.
I hope this spontaneous, well-handled life-saving effort
It’s obvious she wasn’t sure about her decision.
A woman this close to aborting her child was unsure about her decision? When does the Trust Women part kick in?
Abortion hurts women and needs to be illegal.
Not as well scripted as some previous efforts. Maybe the length was such that it was difficult to keep tight.
‘Babu’ – :-)
I regret my abortion.
There ya go Kel.
Oh, Carla, stop being such an anecdote already. :P
Regarding the “sure” versus “unsure” choice to kill babies … How many decisions in my life have I been absolutely sure of? Not many. However, although I would consider myself a very stable person, I am rather indecisive – well, kind of, I think – when it comes to certain things. (Or perhaps just too critical to commit to concise descriptions, ha ha). Anyways, who are these women who are absolutely sure they do not want to let their children live?! Come on, almost every single one has to have some doubt! Or am I too lifey and deluded?
LOL I love it Carla another anecdote.
Ed good to see you posting here once in a while. We need good prayer warriors and Christ-followers speaking the truth in love here. God bless you. I will say Todd was effective and it may have seemed to fit the situation but I think most sidewalk counselors would not use his approach. But I am thrilled the baby’s life was saved.
Life Joy I totally agree with you pregnancy is usually a very emotional time. I don’t believe most women when they first find out they are pregnant are “sure” they want to be pregnant and many have occasional times of not being “sure”. I can tell you with one of my pregnancies while I was barfing my guts out I was not “sure” of anything at times except that I just wanted to stop barfing. No I would not have seriously considered aborting any of my children but women’s emotions are all over the place.
:)
I think the Trust Women part kicks in when they have the payment in their hands.
Close that sale!!!
“Will that be Visa or Mastercard today?”
Reality, are you making fun of the guy’s name? It’s a common Indian name. Really? You’re not happy because a baby is alive today, no thanks to you!
Ya know Reality that whether it was scripted or not, does not matter. What people see is the end result. Methinks Babu is a great name as it is the name of a man who chose life. And that is the reality of it.
BTW, I do not think Todd’s “God will hate you if you abort your baby” approach is considered appropriate by any of the pro-life sidewalk counselors that I know. We have a wonderful sidewalk counselors in our area who save babies but I do not think any would endorse this “God will hate you approach”.
Hans can you guys ask Pro-Life Action League to respond to this video please?
Prolifer L, interesting point. But my experience has been the approach to Fathers has to be different than the approach to Mothers. Everyone is different. I don’t think the ’God will hate you’ approach is appropriate for Mothers – it is too strong for many women. But for men, like this fellow who are outside the clinic alone, it is more appropriate. A lot of these guys who drive their wives and girlfriends to the clinics have been emasculated by the culture. A lot of these men are so numb they have forgotten that they have feelings, including fear. This fellow needed someone to light a fire under his —-. Not all men are the same – but I have talked to a fair number of men like this guy outside of clinics – most of them are sleep walking through this event in their life and feel pressured to do this. Finally, I wouldn’t even call what Todd is an approach – he was making it up on the fly or, in religious terms, letting the Holy Spirit move him. Perhaps Todd can let us know whether this “God will hate you” was a conscious approach prior to meeting Babu.
Also, Prolifer L, the other men who do this, the alpha males, smell fear, so as a counsellor who approaches other males, you can’t show fear or you will be eaten alive and treated fairly badly by the alpha males – these guys are the abusers, these are the guys who are forcing the women to get the abortion. One time, a good clinic escort noticed the behaviour of the one “Dads’ I was talking to and could tell that he most likely coerced his girlfriend to get the abortion. The clinic worker then went into the clinic to let the people inside know. In fact, this guy wasn’t so bright because he basically admitted to forcing his girlfriend to have an abortion. The people you meet at an abortion clinic are interesting but sometimes they are downright frightening, if not dangerous.
By the way, the above example is one reason that counsellors should befriend the clinic escorts.
Actually, from this experience, I never understood why counselling is mandatory before getting an abortion and why it is left to a medical doctor/abortionist and his staff. This seems wrong. It should be someone independent of the clinic and the procedure.
Tyler, I agree with you that at least in this instnance Todd’s approach was right. I think he sensed that Babu, as a seemingly meek immigrant, would be open to the exhortation “Be a man”!
This wasn’t your run-of-the-mill boyfriend trying to rid himself of the responsibility of fatherhood.
From what I gather in the tape, the couple already had a few children, and were trying to save the expenses of having another. Fortunately, responsibility appears to have won over cost-cutting.
letting the Holy Spirit move him
This is what I thought when I saw the video, too, and if Todd is reading maybe he can fill us in.
I know I approach different people differently based on their demeanor and the situation at hand. There was a short amount of time for Todd to persuade this father to go in to save the life of his baby. I think Todd said exactly what the dad needed to hear in that moment. What Todd would have said to a mom or an angry dad in a different moment might have been totally opposite.
The mother to be sure looked radiant when she came out and was in the car. I’d say she was happy about the baby!
Hey Tyler. I appreciate your input as a male sidewalk counselor and I definitely know a lot of alpha males (they run in my family) LOL. They sense fear and weakness and if you are not strong they will run right over you. (I know it is off topic but on a side note, do you think that is why Putin detest BHO so much? He seems to really despise weakness).
Like I said earlier I am so happy this baby’s life was saved. I agree Lori, the momma looked radiant and relieved. I am still curious what Pro-Life Action, 40 Days for Life, and other organizations who do train lots of counselors to save babies would recommend. Just a question.
Prolifer L, – the timid guys sometimes morph into Alpha types due to defensiveness. Just like some women become very aggressive and defensive at the same time. I found that the accompanying girlfriends or mothers (of the abortion patient) can be the most obnoxious.
“Reality, are you making fun of the guy’s name?” – not at all Chris, it’s a great name.
“It’s a common Indian name.” – yes, I am aware.
“Really?” – really what?
“You’re not happy because a baby is alive today, no thanks to you” – I think you’ll find my initial comment makes this comment of yours pointless.
Todd Bullis has bulli-like tendencies for telling Babu that God hates him (twice in fact). God loves the sinner and hates the sin. Yes, I’m glad the baby was saved but even more important is a correct portrayal of Almighty God. How likely is this man going to know the love and grace of God found in Jesus if he thinks God hates him? God’s honor is what’s most important. LL
I am vehemently pro life but this guy is why pro-aborts hate sidewalk counselors. God hates him? God IS Love. He does not hate anyone. Babu’s concept of a loving Heavenly Father just got destroyed. Instead of running to a loving father he is going to be looking over his shoulder the rest of his life. And 7 minutes in he finally closes the deal! His wife could have aborted by then! And what, no referral to a crisis pregnancy center? They are financially strapped! Without the support the lack of which drove them to seek termination in the first place, they may very well be right back in there a week from now! Good grief!
I agree. I know this is all off the cuff, but it will be better in future if Todd says God hates what is being done, not them.
My friends, God does hate those who shed innocent blood. Proverbs 6:16-19. I am a member of AbolishHumanAbortion.com and when you ask me if I have a methodology on sidewalk counseling the answer is yes, my approach is this, I am obedient to the Spirit of God. I give grace to the humble and I come against the proud. I show much more compassion to women but i will be harsh as truth and not compromise the Gospel of Christ We must always expect great things from our great God and I always expect God to reveal himself to people when I do any type of ministry work or I would not do it. I always expect great things to happen because Gods word does not come back void. I have two great rules that I follow when I talk …to anyone about abortion. 1.Everyone knows there is a God. 2. Everyone knows they are going to kill a baby. Now all you people can argue with me about this till you are blue in the face but when I show up I know everyone believes there is a God but they choose to be disobedient. I also know everyone knows they are killing a baby and if you say that is not true, i choose to not believe you. With this approach i do not waist anytime with dumb arguments and I make this about spiritual warfare and nothing more. One last point I would like to make. I am no better of a man than these men or women who are killing there babies I am just more obedient to God and I am forgiven for my sins. If possible pray for me.See More
Todd, your ‘See More’ link did not work.
Excellent post by the way. And thanks for sharing some insight into your approach. I got something out of it. I like your two rules.
“1.Everyone knows there is a God.”
Lol.
And I thought God loved everyone according to Christian beliefs. Apparently not.
I would prefer these be search and rescue missions. Making it primarily about “spiritual warfare” assures more casualties than I can stomach.
This is why I think AHA just bullies people, they don’t really care about saving babies. Where did this couple get offered some support to fix the issues that brought them to the clinic in the first place? Like someone else said, they might be back.
Just telling people how evil they are and how much God hates them doesn’t fix anything.
Jack, God loves the repentant sinner. The unrepentant sinner is denied a resurrected eternal life. He desires everyone to repent, and in that sense he loves everyone, including the unrepentant sinner. However, when people sin they put themselves and their sin before God – and since He is a jealous God – he doesn’t like that. He wants you all for himself. He doesn’t want you to give part of yourself over to sin. He loves you/people/us completely, but he will not love our sinful actions and attachments.
Lol jealousy always seems like such a “godly” emotion. :) But anyway, I don’t care. I just think AHA bullies people and telling people that God hates them if they do something is wrong, and doesn’t fix the issues that brought them there in the first place.
Fixing the issues is a related but separate issue to saving babies. First things first. Todd Bullis can only do so much. He is only one man after all. Can’t you give a man a break and acknowledge a good deed when you see one?
Jack, you might find working in a pregnancy help center rather than street counseling more satisfying.
Nah, I’m not really fond of bullying, even if it’s purportedly for a good cause. I’m glad Todd got this dude to supposedly helped his wife stop making an awful decision, but who knows what happened next. I didn’t see any support offered or even a phone number for a PRC or anything like that. It’s just yelling at people and trying to browbeat them into doing what you want temporarily, exactly what doesn’t work in the long run.
Hmm I’ve helped gather materials and donations for PRCs before, I don’t “street counsel”, I think it can come across as threatening when males do that, imo women are much better equipped for street counseling. And I don’t consider running around and telling people how much God hates them “counseling”, I consider it bullying and proselytizing.
Jack, have you ever counseled anyone?
Todd did not bully anyone. Telling people that God will hate them is not bullying anyone. That statement is enlightening a Christian about the possibility of their eternal damnation or, to a non-believer, it is a non-sense statement. Either way, it is not bullying.
Someone handed the family a basket at the end, which most likely had helpful information in it.
It depends on the male and on how they approach counseling. I have seen very good male street counselors.
Jack, what is needed to be said depends on the person being spoken to. In this case, the man was clearly older and, in fact, had children already. There was no need for Todd to explain basic embryology to this person. Babu understood that he was encouraging his wife to kill his child. If Todd had wasted his time talking about how a preborn baby is a human being Babu would have thought Todd was an idiot or fool and stopped listening to him.
I volunteer (when I have time, after the divorce and single parenthood now it’s difficult to get down there) at the homeless and abused youth shelter around here. The owners of the ones I help at are pro-life people, and a good half of the girls who show up there are pregnant since a lot of them are rape victims or prostitutes. I’ve talked to some of those girls. I certainly didn’t tell them that anyone would hate them if they had an abortion. They got to see ultrasounds of what their babies look like at that stage, they get hooked up with social services and other resources like addiction services and CPS if they need help getting out of their situations. I more work with the boys than the girls, though. I have had pregnant friends that were considering abortion I’ve talked to. Again I didn’t tell them they were hated or doomed. A lot of them ended up choosing life with some help. Most of them just needed help, I do believe it’s a rare person who actually really, really wants an abortion.
I do think what Todd’s doing is bullying.
I’m sure some dudes do a great job street counseling. I’ve just long held the belief that a pregnant woman walking into a clinic would probably be more responsive to another woman, probably a mother herself, that can talk to her about issues that men might not be able to relate to. Women should run the pro-life movement imo and men should support them. The odd male counselor might be good to talk to the boyfriends/husbands who come along with the pregnant women, but I don’t think “God hates you” is a good way to reach anyone, male or female.
Jack, talking to a man is different from talking to a woman. And talking to a man is different than talking to a teenage boy or young adult. You probably tailored your talk for your audience, and appropriately so.
Why should women run the prolife movement?
I think women are better equipped than men are to lead the pro-life movement. They can speak to the personal experience of being pregnant, even dealing with high-risk pregnancies and pregnancies from rape, and men obviously can’t. Men can do well as a support to women in the pro-life movement and speak of their own personal experiences, but I think that pales in comparison to the good that women can do by being the ones who can speak about being pregnant from personal experience. Just my opinion on the matter.
Jack, are you serious! Do you think that as a man that you are not equipped to be a leader in the prolife movement? The nature of the pro-abortion movement is to deny the existence of the preborn human being and the biological role of fathers. The pro-abortion movement is a movement that is a negation of people’s rights – the preborn baby’s right to life, the mother’s right to motherhood, and the father’s right to fatherhood. It negates not just the concept of families, but actual families from coming into existence. Every human being has a right to be prolife and to speak on this issue. Every human being was once a vulnerable human being inside their mother’s womb – and every US citizen born after 1973 bas been denied the right to life at one point during their life. Every US citizen born after 1973 should be personally offended by that very fact. Not being able to be pregnant does not make you a lesser person. Don’t let your concern for optics overshadow the important truths that the abortion movement tries to negate.
The prolife issue is a family issue, just like marriage is.
Hans, I don’t think you understand what Todd meant by spiritual warfare, but perhaps Tood himself will explain.
I don’t think men are “lesser people” or that fathers aren’t important. I do think that men don’t need to lead everything. Things surrounding pregnancy and childbirth are one of the things I don’t think men should lead in. Jeez.
Jack, what about being co-leaders. When it comes to life and family issues both men and women need to lead. I really don’t like this either/or type thinking. It is too adversarial. Men and women, mothers and fathers, are a team.
Fine, whatever Tyler. I still think that men have no authority on childbirth and pregnancy, and we should be support systems for women, and that naturally extends to women leading the pro-life movement.
At the very least we need much more female, pro-life politicians, and less males. Hopefully some non-white female pro-life politicians, that would be ideal.
Don’t forget about mothers and mothers and fathers and fathers too Tyler.
They are teams who have a role to play here.
They may be keen to promote adoption over abortion, that would be helpful for you.
Reality gay and lesbian adoption gets into whole another set of issues such as the rights of children to a mother and father – something I know that you don’t appreciate.
they don’t really care about saving babies
It’s nice to know, Jack, that you have the ability to tell who really cares about saving babies and who doesn’t.
I am so happy that this couple did not abort their baby!
Regardless of what you think or believe about Todd’s approach, a baby is living today because of him choosing to become involved.
There are so many single parent households Tyler.
You are one of those who think it better that a child have two parents.
Therefore two parents are better than one, no matter their sexual orientation.
Oh sorry Praxedes, I thought it was perfectly acceptable on this site to assume what people think about abortion if you don’t agree with their other opinions. My mistake.
I’m glad about that baby too.
Did I miss where someone on this site said you don’t really care about saving babies, Jack?
“Did I miss where someone on this site said you don’t really care about saving babies, Jack?”
Like, on the other thread yesterday, where Tyler told me that I don’t care about Wendy Davis filibustering for late-term abortions? I’m tired of these double standards.
Jack the comment regarding Wendy Davis was to point out that your leftist political leanings make you go lighter on liberals just like I go lighter on conservatives. Both you and Alexandra pointed out my bias and along with the bias of other conservative pro-lifers. However, when I point out that prolife people on the left have a bias as well you object to this and assume I am discounting your pro-life convictions. I believe we all have biases, don’t you?
Reality, I agree with you that a two-parent household consisting of a mother and a father is generally better than a single-parent household. However, I don’t people any two-parent household is better than a single-parent household. There are some adults, like Robert Lopes, who was raised by two lesbians, who point out the difficulties of being raised in gay household. His experiences are not being acknowledged or factored into this debate and I think that is unfair. His voice and the voice of other children should be listened to.
No Tyler if you wanted to point out my bias, you’d point out my bias. Instead, you say things like “When Davis filibusters for 11 hours for the late-term abortion of unborn babies, Jack isn’t bothered”. It’d be like me saying “Tyler doesn’t care that [insert conservative here] beat his wife”, it wouldn’t be true and I’d be putting words in your mouth. It’s rude and a lot of people do things like that on this site.
And about Lopez I’m not saying that it’s right or okay to be gay, but people don’t take Lopez seriously because he blames everything on his lesbian mother and for some reason doesn’t acknowledge that his father abandoned him and that might have something to do with. And he apparently speaks for all gay or bisexual men, which is annoying.
Jack, your comment above shows that you are reading into my comments something that was not intended. I will try to be more clear in the future. Right now, I hope you will take my word for it that I was not questioning your commitment to the prolife movement. Jack before I made my comment I did search to see if you said anything about Wendy Davis’ comments just in case my memory was in error (which happens quite often). I couldn’t find anything even though you did make some comments on the threads that dealt with her filibuster. If I missed a comment, I apologize but from the quick search it appeared to me that you weren’t too bothered by the filibuster. Yet, at no point did I take that to mean that aren’t prolife but just that you were letting your political bias dictate your response.
Mr. Lopez has never said that he speaks for all gay or bisexual men. In fact, he has publicly acknowledged that he doesn’t. He is trying to give voice to the children who have experienced being raised by gay parents. He focuses his comments on what he knows first hand. He can and does discuss the other experiences he has had but is legitimately informing the public of his experience of gay parenting. People, especially bright people, are capable of relaying multiple personal experiences while acknowledging their particular and respective impacts on their lives. (I know some other people who are also trying to do sift through their personal experiences in order to make sense of them.) He is not blaming his lesbian mother and has spoken many kinds words about his mother so you not presenting his views accurately. His experience is almost the polar opposite of your own experience so I can imagine how difficult for you to appreciate his perspective. However, your restraint in bashing him is admirable. However, I don’t think your attempts to ostracise him and make him seem like some anomaly or self-loathing anti-gay person is very friendly or fair.
I argued about that stupid filibuster on Twitter with a bunch of pro-aborts, along with supporting the bill she was arguing about. I don’t remember if I mentioned the filibuster on this blog or not. But it doesn’t really matter. You’re still assuming things about people that you have no way of knowing.
I didn’t call Lopez and anomaly or a self-loathing anti-gay person, nor am I attempting to ostracize him. I simply don’t like the way he portrays gay and bisexual men (he doesn’t JUST talk about his experiences being raised by a gay couple), and I think he blames a lot of things on being raised by a lesbian mother and her partner that are actually due to him being abandoned by his father. I also think he’s a terrible writer, but that’s besides the fact. My goodness Tyler I can disagree with the guy without “ostracizing” him.
Jack, it is not like you haven’t talked about politics before. Sure, everyone’s view of politics can change but you and Alexandra never extended me that courtesy or respect. (You could interpret my comments as respecting that your political opinions are not faddish.) I don’t use Twitter much.
How did you come to the conclusion that a man, who has PhD, is blaming his mother for his thoughts on gay marriage? What allows you to make this determination? Do you know why his father abandoned him? Does he? Perhaps, he has only be told one side of the story. Perhaps, his father was chased out, or was never informed of his existence? I don’t know the details of this story but even if I did I wouldn’t diagnosis someone based on such limited knowledge of their childhood experiences. That is an unfair comment Jack. It would be like me saying that you have bisexual experiences because of your childhood experiences. How many times have you scolded others for citing a link between homosexuality and child abuse. Aren’t you doing the very same thing that you deplore in other people?
I don’t really know what you mean about my “politics”. I’m more left than you, sure. That doesn’t mean I’ll defend left-wing politicians just because. I just don’t like bumper sticker nicknames. Can we not argue about this anymore?
“How did you come to the conclusion that a man, who has PhD, is blaming his mother for his thoughts on gay marriage.”
Because he says so? Because he says being raised in a lesbian couple and a gay community informed his thoughts on gay marriage? Apparently his mother got with her lesbian partner after his father left, which I remember him saying in one of his articles. When he talks about being raised by women left him with a no sense of masculinity, I personally think that’s due to his father taking off, not the fact that his mother got with a woman. I see men raised by single moms complain about the same thing, it’s due to men taking off, not really a failure of the mothers. I actually do think he has a point that boys raised without a father figure have some problems but I don’t think it’s exclusive to the gay community. It might be relevant to gay adoption problems though.
I have no idea how my childhood would be relevant to this. And I’ve change my views on the possibility that non-straight orientations can be influenced by childhood experiences and abuse but I don’t think it’s particularly relevant to this conversation and I don’t know why you brought it up.
Can we not argue about this anymore?
Yes.
When he talks about being raised by women left him with a no sense of masculinity, I personally think that’s due to his father taking off, not the fact that his mother got with a woman. I see men raised by single moms complain about the same thing, it’s due to men taking off, not really a failure of the mothers. I actually do think he has a point that boys raised without a father figure have some problems but I don’t think it’s exclusive to the gay community. It might be relevant to gay adoption problems though.
I am no expert on these issues (very few are) but it would seem to me that fatherlessness is systematic to lesbian couples.
I have no idea how my childhood would be relevant to this. And I’ve change my views on the possibility that non-straight orientations can be influenced by childhood experiences and abuse but I don’t think it’s particularly relevant to this conversation and I don’t know why you brought it up.
I am glad that your view on this changed. From my perspective, this is more of common sense perspective. Childhood abuse may not be determinative, but I think it definitely makes sense that these experiences due influences us.
I brought up your childhood experiences only to point out that your previous argument that childhood experiences do not influence a person to be gay was in direct contrast to the argument you were making about Mr. Lopez’s childhood experience of f fatherlessness. I just wanted to point that his position on gay marriage could not be attributed to his childhood experience of fatherlessness.
Since your has changed on the ability of childhood experiences to influence our adult behaviour how do you feel about legitimate reparative therapy now? Do you think adults should have the right to hire a reparative therapists if they so choose?
I don’t know Tyler I don’t really want to talk about homosexuality on this blog anymore.
I am ok with that.
Jack, are you working this weekend?
No…. why?
Just changing the topic….