Judge Judy to hear Tiller case?
Both Judge Judy and Judge Roy Brown are vying to hear a small claims court case filed by KS pro-life activist Mark Gietzen against late-term Wichita abortionist George Tiller, who was served yesterday.
Gietzen is requesting the maximum allowable, $4,000, for injuries he sustained after Tiller allegedly ran him over and then fled the scene outside his abortion mill last year.
The details of the hit-and-run, according to an Operation Rescue press release:
Gietzen says that as he and another man were measuring the driveway to insure that certain prayer activities were within the law, when Tiller accelerated his Jeep Grand Cherokee directly at them, even turning to continue to aim at them as they began to move out of the way. Tiller’s Jeep struck Gietzen as he attempted to move, bruising his arm and leg, and causing pain for several months.
Tiller should definitely agree to let either Judge Judy or Roy hear this case. The shows pay the claim, so Tiller would get to keep a late-term abortion’s worth of money rather than hand it over to a pro-lifer.
See letters from both show producers on page 2.
Click to see pdf view:
Click to see pdf view:
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Lets not forget about all the times anti-choicers have attacked pro-choicers Jill.
March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of the year before. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Dr. Gunn’s murder and was sentenced to life in prison.
June 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot outside of another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings, received a death sentence, and was executed September 3, 2003.
December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in a clinic attack in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi, who prior to his arrest was distributing pamphlets from Human Life International,[6] was arrested and confessed to the killings. He committed suicide in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.
January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama died when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.
Any of the moderators here? I was wondering if they could approve a comment I made (with pictures) on the Pill Plaque article that just fell off the page…I guess I was a little late with my comment. :(
June 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.
December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the same-day shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second-degree attempted murder and sentenced to 20 years.
October 28, 1997: A physician whose name has not been revealed was shot in his home in Rochester, New York.
January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.
September 11, 2006 David McMenemy attempted a suicide bombing of a women’s clinic in Davenport, Iowa after scouting targets throughout the Midwest. It was later revealed that the targeted clinic did not perform or make referrals for abortions.
November 2001: After the genuine 2001 anthrax attacks, Clayton Waagner mailed hoax letters containing a white powder to 554 clinics. Waagner was convicted of 51 charges relating to the anthrax scare on December 3, 2003.
I’m sure I could find more if you’d like me too.
JM: Do a search for “pro-choice violence” and see what you come up with.
Judge Judy is pro-abortion. They clip and edit the show like crazy, so I doubt that any good thing could come out of it.
Well, in each of the cases you cited, JM, there were CHARGES FILED followed by convictions. No one in your examples got off with an appearance on Judge Judy.
OMG, I absolutely love Judge Judy!!
Judge Judy is pro abortion?? Eh, I take it all back!
I’m more of a People’s Court/Judge Mathis kind of girl to be honest.
JM, anyone who harms other people isn’t really pro life.
If you search YouTube..there is a video of a PC attack on a Pler. I don’t know if she was ever charged but she fled the scene.
Abortion Providers Seem Prone to Crime
A Texas pro-life activist says he has collected 8,000 examples over the last decade of abortionists participating in crimes, including sexual assault, sexual harassment and murder.
Mark Crutcher [founder and president of Life Dynamics] says he hopes that by sharing his information, he can “better educate the public on the evils surrounding abortion.”
Through television appearances, books, speaking engagements and articles, Crutcher uses his files as a public education tool.
He also runs an Internet site, ClinicWorker.com, that encourages abortion workers to report possible crimes before being implicated themselves.
Crutcher focuses not only on the act of abortion, “but also the kind of people involved, and the things that happen to women who enter these clinics.”
One high-profile case involves Arizona abortionist Brian Finkle, who is scheduled to go on trial in August for allegedly sexually assaulting nine of his patients. After Finkle was arrested last October, roughly 80 women came forward to accuse the doctor of sexual misconduct.
The case involving Oklahoma abortionist John Hamilton has also attracted a lot of publicity. Hamilton was sentenced Jan. 9 to life in prison without parole for the Valentine’s Day 2001 murder of his wife, Susan, who was beaten and strangled. “When you’re a medical person, you know what you’re doing when you take a human life” through abortion, Crutcher said. “And if you can do that, there’s not much else you won’t do.”
However, a representative from National Abortion Federation insisted, “The history of violence clearly lies on the side of those against choice.”
NAF keeps track of the violence targeting abortionists and abortion clinics. According to the group’s Web site, seven “abortion providers” have been murdered in America since 1993. The most recent of these is New York’s Dr. Barnett Slepian, who was shot and killed in his home in 1998. NAF also lists 17 cases of attempted murder since 1991 and 41 bombings since 1977, all targeting “abortion providers.” The NAF representative refused to identify herself, and requests for more reaction to Crutcher’s findings were ignored. Telephone calls seeking comment from National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League also were not returned.
‘Easier to Hurt Other People’
British Columbia psychiatrist Philip Ney said he has worked with former abortionists who admitted that something inside of them changed for the worse after performing abortions.
“There’s an instinctual restraint in humans that keeps them from harming a helpless child. If that restraint is damaged, it becomes easier to hurt other people,” Ney said.
A common crime committed by abortionists, Crutcher said, is the sexual assault of patients. He dedicated a chapter in his pro-life book “Lime 5” to the issue, documenting dozens of cases in which abortionists sexually violated women.
But tracking all instances of sexual assault by abortionists is impossible, Crutcher said, because there are many “clandestine” doctors who perform abortions as part of their regular ob-gyn practice without the public’s knowledge. Also, many rapes go unreported, especially if the woman has something to hide such as an abortion, he said.
According to Crutcher, teen-age patients are easy prey for abortionists who know their victims are unlikely to speak out about the crime.
“If your morals and human instincts are so corrupted that you can kill an unborn human baby, sex with a 15-year-old girl isn’t a big deal,” he said.
Another group, Operation Rescue of Boston, also maintains a record of abortionists involved in crime. One abortionist on their list, Daniel Holschauer, was found to have been involved in sexual misconduct, harassment, stalking, extortion and drug abuse in a study by the New York State Department of Health.
California Right to Life also issued an “Abortion Crime Report” that listed crimes such as murder, kidnapping, rape, stalking, death threats and more, committed by abortionists.
One former abortionist on its list, Ivan Namihas, was charged with four counts of rape, 45 incidents of sexual abuse, gross negligence and mail fraud.
A spokesman for American Medical Association said the organization knew of no studies comparing the number of crimes committed by abortionists with the number of crimes committed by doctors in other fields. [Dawn Rizzoni, CNSNews.com , Jan. 22, 2002] 22Jan02 marked the 29th anniversary of the U.S. Supreme Court’s Roe vs. Wade decision that legalized abortion in the United States.
JM, you are always going to hear about people who attempt to do harm to abortionists. However, the evil deeds of the slimy baby killers go unreported. The media just doesn’t report it.
JM, We should really express equal outrage here.
Elizabeth, I’ve seen that video before.
Television Star ‘Judge Judy’ Scheindlin Backs Homosexual “Marriage”
HOLLYWOOD, October 6, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Appearing on CNN’s Larry King Live Tuesday, television personality Judith Scheindlin a.k.a. ‘Judge Judy’, came out in favour of homosexual ‘marriage’. Scheindlin, an outspoken judge who takes cases to be aired on television was thought by many to be conservative.
Asked by Larry King about “gay marriage”, Sheindlin replied, “Who is it hurting? You know, my grandmother used to say who is it hurting? So, I ask you, Larry, if you have two adults and they happen to both be of the same sex and they love each other and they want to set up a home with each other they have as much of a shot as heterogeneous couples do. Fifty-two percent of marriages end in divorce, you know.”
The pop-culture icon known by the household name of ‘Judge Judy’ continued, “So if it works, it works. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t. And if it’s important for them to use the word marriage, rather than civil union or whatever other language that some people would prefer that they use I ask you it’s not hurting me. It doesn’t impact on my life. Why is there such a big fuss about it? Why are people so invested in it? I just don’t get the negativity. I don’t get it.”
See the Larry King transcript of the interview:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/04/lkl.01.html
To leave a comment on Judge Judy’s website:
http://www.judgejudy.com/Forms/tellit.asp
jhw
So..Judge Judy only cares about issues that directly impact her life? Hmmm…she really cares about bettering the human race as a whole doesn’t she? Nope…only the part that betters herself.
She could apply the same phrase to abortion. “Who is it hurting?” Try the unborn child.
Guaranteed that the network will get the highest viewer rating for the day..lol
would make for some good monologues if the writers werent on strike..lol
JM,
See abortionviolence.com for a more realistic perspective.
And guess what? If Lyons, Gunn, Britton, Barrett, Slepian, et al had not participated in some way in the slaughter of thousands of innocent children, most likely none of them would have been attacked.
But where does the real violence
lie when it comes to the abortion
issue?
Pro-life groups have emphasized the violence that goes on inside the abortion mills
Excuse me?
If this case had any merit, every tort attorney in Kansas would be on it like stink on s***.
A physician and an insurance company with deep pockets? If there was any money to be made the lawsuit would be for $1,000,000.
Were any criminal charges filed? Has anyone done any jail time for this alleged crime?
There is a vast difference between victim/plaintiff status and just being a whiny “P.”
Yay, Elizabeth, my pictures were approved. :D
While you’re at it, check out the violence that pro lifers inflict on pro choicers:
http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/history_extreme.asp
And guess what? If Lyons, Gunn, Britton, Barrett, Slepian, et al had not participated in some way in the slaughter of thousands of innocent children, most likely none of them would have been attacked.
Posted by: jtm at November 9, 2007 3:45 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do you always endorse the murder of innocent, law-abiding citizens?
How “Osama” of you…
No criminal charges were filed after police viewed clinic surveillance video of the incident.
After watching the video from clinic security cameras, police told the men that the footage showed that they had time to get out of Tiller
These morons stood in front of Dr. Tiller’s car and refused to move. The defendant sustained a bruised butt, and now he’s suing for his own stupidity. I can see why Judge Judy would want to take the case. It would make hilarious TV.
Whoops, actually that should’ve been claimant, not defendant. Oh well.
I think it’s silly.
OMG, I absolutely love Judge Judy!!
Judge Judy is pro abortion?? Eh, I take it all back!
:: laughing ::
Heather, that was a classic.
tp,
Did Tiller forget how to use his brakes? Come on, it was intentional! However, it could have been much worse if Tiller didn’t somewhat restrain himself!
I don’t know anything about Judge Roy Brown and where he stands on the abortion issue, but to have this case on Judge Judy would be insane as far as I’m concerned, given her liberal views, and the way she thrives on humiliating people with her brassy, in your face manner. The pro-aborts will no doubt start using her as another one of their allies should this be aired, and you can be sure she’ll rule in favor Tiller, regardless of the facts and testimonies.
To have this case tried on either one of these stupid programs will only serve to further the negative image of peaceful prolifers which the media is all to willing to pounce on.
Some good info here:
http://abortionviolence.com/0.HTM
Mike C., I believe it!
Doug, thank you. Glad you liked it.
tp,
you wrote
These morons stood in front of Dr. Tiller’s car and refused to move. The defendant sustained a bruised butt, and now he’s suing for his own stupidity. I can see why Judge Judy would want to take the case. It would make hilarious TV.
Posted by: tp at November 9, 2007 6:30 PM
What if the driver were a prolifer and Tiller were the one with the bruised butt? Would that be Tiller’s own stupidity? Or would you call it violence? Would that be on Judge Judy? Would it make hilarious TV?
George Tiller has his supporters. So does Charles Manson.
I never endorse the execution/murder of innocent people. Abortionists, and their allies, are not innocent. They/you endorse the abusing of medical skills and knowledge to target the innocent for destruction, and the blood of millions of innocent people is on your hands, and you just want more to die. So Mengele, and very Osama, of you all. Mengele “only obeyed the law”. Speaking of crazies, though, Hitler never did anything illegal. He made law to suit his own evil agenda, then hid behind it, just like you. Grow up, deal with it and REPENT.
Your posts clearly indicate to me that you should find the sheer novelty of that experience quite refreshing and invigorating, and for that I’m sure your emus will be grateful.
midnite, please try not to be any stupider than you can help. Of course I am generally, though not personally, familiar with Eric Rudolph. I was making a point, too, one which none of you PCers want to face, and that is that abortion is a savage act of premeditated violence that kills an innocent human being, so abortion profiteers/supporters are guilty of mass murder, and so have no room to talk about violence of others. The only reason they object to the actions of people of Paul Hill, Eric Rudolph, Michael Griffin, Shelley Shannon, et al is that their actions interfered somehow with the violence of abortion, not because of any legitimate, genuine aversion/objection to violence per se. We all know none of you gives a merry d@mn, really, about anything but the continued slaughter of innocent children, no matter what it takes. If an abortionist is shot, or a hellhole bombed, you couldn’t care less, so long as, in the long run, your side somehow benefits from it.
There are differing opinions within the prolife movement as to capital punishment, execution, the vigilante use of lethal force to defend the unborn, etc. Many oppose capital punishment due to the real possibility of a miscarriage of justice, executing the innocent, as happens in every induced abortion, except in cases where the woman is given a false pregnancy test result because the abortionist needs the money for the abortion. These folks also believe that capital punishment violates the sanctity of life ethic.
Most who favor capital punishment feel that it should be carried out by the government and is just punishment for a convicted murderer, but not for an innocent child; and very few of these folks consider it acceptable for a private individual to appoint him/herself judge, jury, and executioner all in one…hence the general opposition to both legalized induced abortion, and vigilante acts of force leveled at killing centers and the death merchants who run them. These folks do not see a conflict with sanctity of life; rather, they see that capital punishment supports the sanctity of life in that if A is not executed for killing B, then this makes B’s life less sacred than A’s, etc. The few who do believe that vigilante acts of lethal force are within biblical and/or constitutional principles/laws may be “crazy” or not; they may be misguided, hotheaded, shortsighted, or have other character flaws (welcome to the fallen human race…). But if you are going to make judgments like you have, you must at least be willing to apply the same standards to your treatment of the innocent unborn, who have not threatened anyone with any real violence or harm. And I don’t know how you can do that, since you don’t have any absolute, basic moral standard to begin with. Which is why Judge Judy will have a hard time trying this without coming off looking like a colossal bigot, in view of just the facts of the case. I’ve met Mark Geitzen, and I am sure that he did not jump out in front of an oncoming car. Tiller has a history of malicious acts towards people who don’t agree with him, and, of course, a confirmed history of serially killing thousands of innocents.
If someone was about to do to you what abortionists do to the unborn, and someone used lethal force to prevent it, you would probably not object; Emily Lyons certainly wouldn’t, seeing how she has been screaming for his blood just as raucously as she has called, along with her sympathizers, for the blood of the innocent children slaughtered at the deathmills he attacked. She was bitterly disappointed and angry that he was executed, just as she would be bitterly disappointed and angry if the execution of the preborn were to be stopped.
Tell you what else, midnite & lying Laura (not PL Laura), don’t trouble your little head(s) another minute about who I am. If and when I decide that that is somehow your legitimate business, I shall be more than happy to enlighten you accordingly. In the meantime, for the sake of yourself and everyone else your life touches, deal with who you are.
Anyone who is pro-abortion is a walking mockery of justice. Judge Judy has this public image of being such a defender of those mistreated, exploited, abused, etc
Judge Judy has this public image of being such a defender of those mistreated, exploited, abused, etc
Doug said, “I’d rather see a thousand women end unwanted pregnancies than have the suffering that is in some individual children’s lives.”
I truly believe that not one person in the US can give a bonafide explanation of what a “suffering child is” until they speak with a child growing up in the Darfur region or in Ethiopia, for example. I am not minimizing the effects of pain from abuse or neglect, but to end thousands or millions of lives for this reason is bogus when the legitimate numbers are very low. However, many of these children that come from abuse or neglect go on to become Victors…not Victims…
Why should Tiller allow loonies (RTLs) to trespass on his property?
He did the right thing in bumping Gietzen off his property with his jeep.
Tiller has been shot by a right-to-life terrorist. He should be given plenty of room to protect himself.
Tiller would be within his rights if he had shot Gietzen in the chest.
Hippie, you wrote: “What if the driver were a prolifer and Tiller were the one with the bruised butt? ”
The question assumes that Dr. Tiller would ever be looney enough to comport himself as the right-to-lifer did–blocking the entrance to another person’s property. That’s a bad assumption. If nothing else, he’s way too busy to indulge in waste-of-time behavior like that.
Somg, did you know that George Tiller attends church?
You know, it’s funny, because my gay friend despises Judge Judy. He said, “She’s a vicious, hateful, bi*ch.”………..I wonder if he’d reconsider d/t the fact that she condones gay marriages.
Judge Judy is pro abortion. Maybe my friend was right.
Yes, I knew that. He also has a chaplain for women who want some kind of religious ceremony for their fetus.
Somg, you are correct.
Somg, don’t you mock religion? Please refresh my memory. Why would an abortionist attend church?
I’m going to bed. I’ll read your responses in the AM. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, for now.
Heather, you wrote: “Why would an abortionist attend church?”
I dunno, why does anyone attend church?
Right-to-lifers do not have a monopoly on christianity. Most christians in North America are pro-choice.
Doug,
Okay, so you don’t like Judge Judy, but that’s no reason to take away the freedom that women have in the matter of abortion.
From my understanding (correct me if I’m wrong…) Gietzen and the prolifers stay on Public property in front of the Tiller clinic, so they are not “tresspassing” on Tiller’s “personal property”.
Somg,
you wrote:
The question assumes that Dr. Tiller would ever be looney enough to comport himself as the right-to-lifer did–blocking the entrance to another person’s property.
Posted by: SoMG at November 11, 2007 12:42 AM
Certainly Tiller has crossed the street or walked past a public entrance at some point. Perhaps even paused for a moment. The driver of a motor vehicle doesn’t have any right to hit a pedestrian, even one who is in his way.
I have had my driveway blocked by cars of neighbors guests and hired help and have not just run into them because they were in my way.
Would you run into someone blocking the exit of the shopping center, if he were a complete jerk and purposely blocking you?
Right-to-lifers do not have a monopoly on christianity. Most christians in North America are pro-choice.
Posted by: SoMG at November 11, 2007 3:51 AM
Are you calling christians who support legal abortion hypocrites?
It is my understanding that if the public sidewalk crosses a private drive than that portion of the private drive is considered part of the public sidewalk. The width of the driveway considered part of the sidewalk would be equal to the width of the sidewalk. In other words, the public sidewalk doesn’t end when a driveway starts and then pick up again when the driveway ends. The reason I know this is because it was legally established by prolifers at the local mill.
Carrie,
You cannot legally hit people with your car even on your own property. You can call the police for trespass. When someone walks across my driveway to put a flyer on my door, I cannot legally run into him with my car as I pull out of my garage even though he is on my driveway. The DA absolutely can charge me with assault.
Doug,
You wrote,
I’d rather see a thousand women end unwanted pregnancies than have the suffering that is in some individual children’s lives.
Doug
Posted by: Doug at November 10, 2007 7:58 PM
I really don’t mean to be offensive.
However, I think we all remember from school the notion that it is better for ten guilty to be spared than for one innocent to be condemned.
What you are saying is that it is better for a thousand innocent to be condemned to attempt to assure that a few will not suffer.
Not just bad logic, but egregiously immoral.
Please don’t overlook the evidence that those denied abortion do not abuse at a higher rate. The only studies conducted on this subject did not show a greater incidence of abuse of unwanted children whose mothers were denied aborttions. To say these women are more abusive defames their character. While some carelessly defame others, I have not seen you do it. I hope it wasn’t your intent to insinuate that mothers who have unplanned pregnancies are more abusive or less loving than other mothers.
Hippie, I know that. I was just commenting on the fact that they may have been on public property at the time. There has been an ongong conflict as far as where Tiller’s property starts and public property ends. I wish they would charge him,but it looks like they won’t. I never said he could legally hit them. I don’t know what your problem is,but I support what the prolifers are doing at Tiller’s.
Carrie,
My problem is not with you. It is with people defending hitting someone with a car just because they are in the way. It is not legal on the public sidewalk, in private parking lots, or in a box, or with a fox. It is not legal here or there. It is not legal anywhere.
I don’t know where you got that I was defending it. Like I said, I was addressing the ongoing conflict of where the prolifers can stand there. There was a big issue at the mill I pray at and it was resolved legally. We established our right to walk across the driveway because the sidewalk extends across the driveway. As long as we don’t block traffic or persons, we can walk across the driveway(at least until the buffer law)
Hippie, then why hasn’t George Tiller been arrested and charged? The incident was caught on video tape.
Good question Somg. I don’t know. I do know it has nothing to do with being allowed to hit pedestrians that happen to be blocking an exit. It also has nothing to do with trespassing. Nor has it anything to do with private vs. public property.
I don’t think Gietzen “just happened” to be blocking Tiller’s exit. I read that he (Gietzen) had plenty of time to get out of Tiller’s way, but chose not to do so.
Carrie, you wrote: “As long as we don’t block traffic or persons, we can walk across the driveway(at least until the buffer law) ”
Gietzen was blocking traffic. That’s the point.
From Kansascity.com:
“No criminal charges were filed after police viewed clinic surveillance video of the incident.
“After watching the video from clinic security cameras, police told the men that the footage showed that they had time to get out of Tiller
My kid brother was acting like an idiot one time and standing in the middle of the street, blocking me from going somewhere. I inched forward and nudged him in the butt with my car.
He’s not suing me for it, either.
SoMg, isn’t using a car to hit someone considered using deadly force? Even if the prolifer had time to get out of the way, Tiller still shouldn’t have hit him. If he was standing in the way, then Tiller should have just called the police. Let me give you an example. On Saturday, the abortionist pulled up to the mill driveway around 8:30 and we moved to the side. If we had decided to stand there, he still wouldn’t have been able to use deadly force to get us out of the way. He could call the police and have the police address the situation,if we had done that(which we didn’t). I think Tiller has alot of political influence(imo) and that is why he wasn’t arrested.
SoMG, Tiller’s has a PAC(ProKanDo) which is where his political influence comes from,imo.
Doug said, “I’d rather see a thousand women end unwanted pregnancies than have the suffering that is in some individual children’s lives.”
PL Laura: I truly believe that not one person in the US can give a bonafide explanation of what a “suffering child is” until they speak with a child growing up in the Darfur region or in Ethiopia, for example. I am not minimizing the effects of pain from abuse or neglect, but to end thousands or millions of lives for this reason is bogus when the legitimate numbers are very low. However, many of these children that come from abuse or neglect go on to become Victors…not Victims…
Laura – agreed about Darfur, etc. – there are many places in the world that are so. And I’m not saying there is any “need” to end pregnancies for that. I would still leave it up to the woman or couple involved. I was just comparing the suffering.
Doug
I really don’t mean to be offensive.
Ha! Hippie, you’re so nice – no problema!
……
However, I think we all remember from school the notion that it is better for ten guilty to be spared than for one innocent to be condemned.
There is the presumption of an equality, there, which is not present between the born and the unborn, at least the unborn to a point in gestation (when the vast majority of abortions are done).
……
What you are saying is that it is better for a thousand innocent to be condemned to attempt to assure that a few will not suffer. Not just bad logic, but egregiously immoral.
Oh no it’s not. I’m not saying it’s a “trade,” that we can have so many abortions to “offset” the immense suffering in some kids’ lives. I was just comparing the two, i.e. that despite the fact that we may argue about when the unborn can suffer, they most certainly cannot suffer until certain development has taken place. I am talking about unwanted pregnancies in the first place, and I’m for the woman being able to choose, even without any comparison to suffering kids.
……
Please don’t overlook the evidence that those denied abortion do not abuse at a higher rate. The only studies conducted on this subject did not show a greater incidence of abuse of unwanted children whose mothers were denied aborttions. To say these women are more abusive defames their character. While some carelessly defame others, I have not seen you do it. I hope it wasn’t your intent to insinuate that mothers who have unplanned pregnancies are more abusive or less loving than other mothers.
Holy Crow, Hippie, I really wasn’t saying anything such. I wasn’t even connecting the two. Just my opinion there – a thousand given abortions may involve no suffering. Now compare that to some of the cases of kids in the world.
As far as the mothers – I don’t know, and I’m also not saying the mothers will necessarily be at fault for kids’ suffering – sometimes it’s just the circumstances of where they are, political, economic, etc.
About all I would say is that some kids will tend to have it better than others, for example those in two-parent homes versus one-parent homes. Those in certain countries versus others. And of course wanted kids versus those who are unwanted.
Doug
What a psychic Doug is, knowing which kids are wanted and which kids are unwanted. What baloney, What a ridiculous statement.
Are kids wanted every minute of every day Doug?
Are Unwantd kids, unwanted every minute of every day?
What percentage of kids are unwanted at birth and unwanted the rest of their life? Break out this percentage by a time analysis Doug.
Can you give me some percentages on “wanted time” by parents who wanted kids? Such as wanted 99.9 percent of their life by parent/s who wanted that
kid?
File that statement by Doug under appeal to stereotypes and possible sublimated racism of Doug.
And Doug sings along in his car to that Elvis Presley tune, In The Ghetto. “And his mama crys, cause there’s one thing she don’t need is another mouth to feed in the ghetto”. And being a pessimist, Doug just smiles at such realistic truth. Makes his believes become reality.
Heather, you wrote: “Why would an abortionist attend church?”
I dunno, why does anyone attend church?
Right-to-lifers do not have a monopoly on Christianity. Most Christians in North America are pro-choice.
Posted by: SoMG at November 11, 2007 3:51 AM
Well, most people go to church to worship God. If most Christians are pro choice, then why are you always harping on religious pro lifers? We all have a choice.
PostalGirl: What a psychic Doug is, knowing which kids are wanted and which kids are unwanted. What baloney, What a ridiculous statement.
What’s ridiculous is your trying to make up stuff I said. Nobody knows which kid is which, everywhere, but the fact is that many kids do suffer compared to many others and often the causes are what one might expect.
……
Are kids wanted every minute of every day Doug?
No, not according to the idea with which you asked the question, and that’s a non-sequitur from you. Of course things are very relative like that for born children. With respect to a given pregnancy, it will be wanted, or unwanted, on balance. It may be 100% one way or the other, or anywhere in-between.
……
Are Unwantd kids, unwanted every minute of every day?
Some, sad to say, are, but of course that’s not true for all.
……
What percentage of kids are unwanted at birth and unwanted the rest of their life?
You tell me. Has nothing to do with the truth of what I said.
……
Break out this percentage by a time analysis Doug.
Go back in time and make it so Illinois didn’t beat Ohio State.
……
Can you give me some percentages on “wanted time” by parents who wanted kids?
That might be a good topic for you to undertake a study on. Myself, I’m going to get back to my Keenan Wynn retrospective.
……
Such as wanted 99.9 percent of their life by parent/s who wanted that
kid?
You’re splitting hairs. It stands to reason that kids that are wanted will do better, overall, than those who are not.
……
File that statement by Doug under appeal to stereotypes and possible sublimated racism of Doug.
Nonsense. File it under you having no rational argument and making up a bunch of baloney.
……
And Doug sings along in his car to that Elvis Presley tune, In The Ghetto. “And his mama crys, cause there’s one thing she don’t need is another mouth to feed in the ghetto”. And being a pessimist, Doug just smiles at such realistic truth. Makes his believes become reality.
1.) “Makes his believes..” – OUCH. Nobody’s perfect but you know how to bring the pain.
2.) Does yllas work at the post office too? ; )
3.) Why does the sad truth make you “smile”? It is true that kids with two parents versus one tend to do better. And there are many other factors that apply as well, including the very basic being wanted or not.
Doug
Doug, yllas is right. You only post on your opinions. You never post facts.
Doug, yllas is right. You only post on your opinions. You never post facts.
No, Heather, you’re not even talking about what yllas was. And – do you work at that post office too? Do you like Keenan Wynn? Have you ever gone “postal”?
As for facts, it is a fact that kids in certain situations tend to better than others in different situations. Sheesh – do you think that is even at issue?
Anyway, MK, Bethany, etc., were complaining that all I did was post facts, and not my opinion.
:: laughing ::
Well, you have made the claim before that unborn children don’t feel any pain. Would that be a fact or an opinion? In my opinion, it’s an opinion. Doug, this is for you….@@.
Doug is right Heather,
We did blast him for never giving his opinion.
However, in a perfect world Doug would give his opinion and back it up with facts.
Not give facts and withhold his opinion.
Or give his opinion, and not back it up with facts.
But alas…I’m just happy I’m not arguing with an automaton anymore…
*fire hose at doug*
MK, Doug is very confused. *fire hose*
Well, you have made the claim before that unborn children don’t feel any pain. Would that be a fact or an opinion? In my opinion, it’s an opinion. Doug, this is for you….@@
Heather, you rascal – who says it’s a matter of “children” in the first place?
There’s your @@
As for feeling pain, I realize that after a point in gestation it is a matter of argument. However, to a point in gestation, when most abortions take place, it’s not even at issue.
Doug.
However, in a perfect world Doug would give his opinion and back it up with facts.
Not give facts and withhold his opinion. Or give his opinion, and not back it up with facts.
Well, MK, ya got yer wish, because I do just that.
Doug
P.S. My fire hose is bigger than yours.