Sunday funny
by Glenn McCoy for Townhall.com, March 24:
Mar.30, 2008 12:17 pm |
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
In all fairness Planned Parenthood would probably accept money for abortions for only white people.
Would anyone here donate to Planned Parenthood if it was going only to mamograms? Just curious.
BTW, my Mom said she has never seen a Planned Parenthood and can’t imagine there’s that many in this country. Come to think of it I have never seen an actual Planned Parenthood which is weird seeing how much time I spent in Boston and Springfield and sometimes going to NYC.
In all fairness Planned Parenthood would probably accept money for abortions for only white people.
Would anyone here donate to Planned Parenthood if it was going only to mammograms? Just curious.
BTW, my Mom said she has never seen a Planned Parenthood and can’t imagine there’s that many in this country. Come to think of it I have never seen an actual Planned Parenthood which is weird seeing how much time I spent in Boston and Springfield and sometimes going to NYC.
Jess, the first PP I ever actually saw was the PP Aurora…that is interesting isn’t it?
Oh shizzz sorry. I just wanted to spell mammogram right : (
I’ve seen plenty of Planned Parenthoods in my travels. There are plenty in St Louis too.
Jess, I would not give money to Planned Parenthood if they intended to use that money just on mammograms for the same reason why I would not give money to al Qaeda if they intended to use it to help feed the poor.
Your ignorance is only exceeded by your lack of good sense.
I pity you and your small minded ventures.
Posted by: Jess at March 30, 2008 5:51 PM
BTW, my Mom said she has never seen a Planned Parenthood and can’t imagine there’s that many in this country. Come to think of it I have never seen an actual Planned Parenthood which is weird seeing how much time I spent in Boston and Springfield and sometimes going to NYC.
++++
Jess, your Mom and most other people many times aren’t even aware that there is a PP in their neighborhood that they pass every day because PP tends not to put their signs out on the street.
So much for legalized abortion solving that pesky “back alley” problem PCers are always screeching about…
Guess they know that they make most people uncomfortable, and most neighboring businesses are usually not big fans of working daily next to a place where babies are being killed. Those other businesses also aren’t too keen on their clientele noticing a big PLANNED PARENTHOOD sign when they’re driving up to drop off their dry cleaning or to get their nails done.
Dirty deeds are USUALLY done on the down low, no?
Also, Jess…unless your mother is poor or a minority, her chances of happening to drive by a Planned Parenthood are significantly lowered, since 80% of their locations are where they will “do the most good” (according to PP founder Margaret Sanger): poor and minority neighborhoods.
Margaret Sanger
Founder of Planned Parenthood
In Her Own Words
“The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.”
Margaret Sanger, Women and the New Race
(Eugenics Publ. Co., 1920, 1923)
Copyright
The only Planned Parenthood I’ve ever seen was on the outskirts of Sioux Falls, SD.
The lone PP in SD.
Other than that, I haven’t seen any in MN.
Dirty deeds are USUALLY done on the down low, no?
So undercover cops are doing dirty deeds?
I think the reason they keep it quiet is so that they don’t get BOMBED, STALKED, OR THREATENED. Oh yeah, and not all PPs offer abortion services.
PJ Mama, historically those sentiments would have been perfectly acceptable at that time.
The Planned Parenthood official statement on Sanger
Sanger also entertained some popular ideas of her own time that are out of keeping with our thinking today. Finding it easier to undermine her character than to confront the message she conveyed, the anti-family planning movement has seized upon some of these ideas, taken them out of context, and exaggerated and distorted them in order to discredit Sanger and the organization she founded.
…
Although Sanger uniformly repudiated the racist exploitation of eugenics principles, she agreed with the “progressives” of her day who favored “incentives for the voluntary hospitalization and/or sterilization of people with untreatable, disabling, hereditary conditions” the adoption and enforcement of stringent regulations to prevent the immigration of the diseased and “feebleminded” into the U.S. “placing so-called illiterates, paupers, unemployables, criminals, prostitutes, and dope-fiends on farms and open spaces as long as necessary for the strengthening and development of moral conduct.”
Planned Parenthood Federation of America finds these views objectionable and outmoded.
But feel free to believe an organization never evolves past its beginning ideals. *yawn*
You’re right, Edyt. It is apparent from the recorded phone call with Autumn at PP, they have “evolved” from the “popular ideas of her own time” of Margaret Sanger to the modern-day ideals of skinheads.
Touche.
Hi Rae,
I am your neighbor across the river. I just went to http://www.all.org/stopp/ and clicked on map room. It shows all the PP’s in MN. Not that I see too many either.
Are you ready for snow? 2-3 inches? 4-6? 5-8? Whatever…………..
…I wonder how much $$$ the Aryan Nation has given to PP…they probably have a plaque on the wall of their office;
“In appreciation for the Aryan Nation’s generosity and support of the goals of PP…”
I meant to say that I do not see too many when I am out and about. I see many on the map. :)
Hi PJMama!!
Hey Carla!
Carla, speaking of snow, we thought we were all done with that here in upstate NY, but woke up Saturday to 4 inches that fell overnight. I told my 5yo son Jack to look out he window when he woke up, and when he saw the snow, the poor boy started crying and said “oooohhhh, when is it going to be SPRING????? Waaaahhh!”
I felt so sorry for him and just hugged him for like five minutes and then made him some pancakes. We all have cabin fever somethin’ turrible.
@Carla: Nooooooooooooooooooooooo! No more snooooooow! I just looked out my window now and I want to cry. The weather yesterday was so beautiful. I had my window open all day and night, no wonder my room is so cold now…it’s snowing!
I didn’t think MN had a lot of PPs…I know we have one in St. Paul in Highland Park? and we were supposed to get a “store front” PP in Woodbury but that got canned due to the opposition (Woodbury is in district 6, very conservative politically…elected Michelle Bachmann *vomit*).
Edyt 11:50PM
Klansman have gone from bedsheets to suitcoats and ties and have toned down their racist hate filled rhetoric. Why, they just stand for white pride and power, not racist and anti-semitic ideas.
One should feel free to believe that an organization can evolve from its beginning ideals.
We have a “store front” PP in my little suburb, where they don’t do abortion, but they do intake, and the usual other stuff. They are so well-hidden that they are on one of the main roads in my area and I never knew they were there until I looked it up a couple years ago. The ladies at my local CPC didn’t even know it was there until I mentioned it.
@PajamaMama (I like that name, rhyming is awesome!): I used to live in upstate New York…a wee li’l town called “Greece” just outside of Rochester on Lake Ontario. I had more snow days in the two years I lived there than the 8+ years I lived in Minnesota altogether. :-p
What made ye choose the name “PajamaMama”?
Fortunately, I don’t have to go to a PP to get my BC for my PCOS…there is a campus clinic I can go to (there are no close pharmacies where I live in Minneapolis, the campus one is the closest).
Edyt, 11:47PM
Yes those sentiments would have been perfectly acceptable at that time.
So were JIm Crow, segregation, lynchings, and poll taxes.
I suppose these aren’t really so bad though when you consider they were perfectly acceptable at the time.
Posted by: Rae at March 31, 2008 9:05 AM
What made ye choose the name “PajamaMama”?
++++
I needed a screen name sometime back and happened to be sitting at the computer in my pajamas (as are many SAHM’s with pre-school aged children). I liked the way it rhymed, and it reminded me of the “Pajamas Media”, so there you have it!
HI again Rae,
There is an Express Clinic in Woodbury. Meet ya there!! We’ll do lunch and make some trouble. heh
No wait. I better stay put and dig out the shovels again. Waaaahhh
PJMama,
I just sent my eldest to school with snowpants, boots, mitts and hats. They are none too happy with that.
Rae,
I think the snow you got in Greece, NY was called “lake effect” snow, yes? I don’t think that we have that here in the Albany/Saratoga County area. I’m new to the snow lingo being from Texas and all.
@Carla: Oh, I was unaware that it actually opened, I thought the idea was nixed because the Woodburians threw a fit.
Crumbs, I have to walk to class in the snow. >_
This is so dishonest – and its so typical. Refusing to face the fact of how much good PP does by providing affordable health care shows that antichoicers really do not care about women. Obsessing over 3% of their services and ignoring 97% of their services shows that antichoicers do not really care about women. Trying to pretend that the actions of one person ‘proves’ anything about ‘all’ of PP is dishonest. And its all predictable from the antichoice side.
pamamamama do you have any quotes which are not from a secondary or even tertiary source?
TR,
Your responses are so typical and predictable.
I have read 3% and 97% from you over and over. Got anything else?
Please let me know of the GOOD that PP does. Prove it. Show me.
I care about women. I care that they are informed about all the “supposed good” that PP does.
I think the reason they keep it quiet is so that they don’t get BOMBED, STALKED, OR THREATENED. Oh yeah, and not all PPs offer abortion services.
Posted by: Edyt at March 30, 2008 11:35 PM
*******************************
I live in a major metropolitan area. I can think of half a dozen different PP clinics in various neighborhoods including one in Arlington that has a sign reading:
PLANNED PARENTHOOD
entry in rear
Ive always wondered about that one …
But only one clinic in this whole area performs abortions and they dont perform them every day. Thats for Dallas county, Colin County and Tarrant County. 37% of PP services are contraceptives – 20% is cancer screening
abortion is 3%
Ive heard people insist that women who have abortions also get pap smears and information on contraceptives – so that might change the figures to what? 5%? even 10%? But that still means that 90 women out of 100 go to PP for something other than abortion.
You’re right, Edyt. It is apparent from the recorded phone call with Autumn at PP, they have “evolved” from the “popular ideas of her own time” of Margaret Sanger to the modern-day ideals of skinheads.
Touche.
Posted by: PajamaMama at March 31, 2008 6:32 AM
********************
No, you have one person and they dont speak for all of PP. Trying to pretend otherwise is being dishonest.
Posted by: TexasRed at March 31, 2008 11:00 AM
pamamamama do you have any quotes which are not from a secondary or even tertiary source?
++++
Why? Do you have any information that would refute the accuracy of any of them? If so, I’d love to know.
Most of the quotes I have used are widely known throughout the entire PC and PL movements, so unless you plan to write your own book about abortion and quote yourSELF, or perform a scientific study from which you can publish your own statistical analysis, I suggest you stick to attacking the merits of my arguments rather than some nit-picky comment about a completely irrelevant aspect of my supporting quotes.
TR,
Your responses are so typical and predictable.
I have read 3% and 97% from you over and over. Got anything else?(its the truth – why does that bother you?)
Please let me know of the GOOD that PP does. Prove it. Show me.(access to contraceptives, pap smears, mammograms, health care in general)
I care about women. I care that they are informed about all the “supposed good” that PP does.
Posted by: Carla at March 31, 2008 11:09 AM
*********************************
It takes a simpleton to look at 97% for other services and 3% for abortion and not grasp that it means 97 women who go to PP do not get abortions there but go for other health care service. Are you a simpleton? or are you just having another temper tantrum because you want to try to pretend only people you agree with should be allowed to post here?
Why? Do you have any information that would refute the accuracy of any of them? If so, I’d love to know.
********************
Obviously you dont understand the significance of a primary source – or you dont care
Oh, and TR; unless there are quote marks around something that I post here, they ARE quotes from a primary source; ME. I write all of my own opinions, dearie.
Where did you come up with 97% and 3%? Simple question.
Yeah, I am all about temper tantrums.
You post here. For now.
I understand COMPLETELY the concept of a “primary source”.
Obviously, YOU don’t understand the concept of having an actual argument.
Yes, TR…what IS your unbiased source for your favorite 97% vs. 3% mantra? Oh, wait…I’ll bet it’s the PP website, right?
Yes, TR…what IS your unbiased source for your favorite 97% vs. 3% mantra? Oh, wait…I’ll bet it’s the PP website, right?
Posted by: PajamaMama at March 31, 2008 11:25 AM
****************************
It’s their annual report as I’ve stated before. And that IS a primary referesnce. Regarding sanger, I didnt say a thing about an ‘unbiased’ source. I asked about a primary source instead of a secondary or tertiary source. You dont seem to grasp the difference.
Oh, and TR; unless there are quote marks around something that I post here, they ARE quotes from a primary source; ME. I write all of my own opinions, dearie.
Posted by: PajamaMama at March 31, 2008 11:17 AM
******************
You seem to not understand what the term ‘quote’ means. You also seem to be unable to grasp just what I was asking you.
Where did you come up with 97% and 3%? Simple question.
Yeah, I am all about temper tantrums.
You post here. For now.
Posted by: Carla at March 31, 2008 11:18 AM
*********************
‘For now’? ooooooooh! so intimidating!
You sound like a 12 year old.
And yes, you DO seem to be ‘all about’ temper tantrums.
Currently 75 degrees here – partially cloudy with a chance of showers according to the weather report but when I look out the windows I cant see any clouds
When its July and 105 here you can feel better about your weather
Posted by: TexasRed at March 31, 2008 11:11 AM
No, you have one person and they dont speak for all of PP. Trying to pretend otherwise is being dishonest.
++++
Kind of like when PCers accuse the PL movement of being a terrorist movement because a few people break the law by lashing out with violence? There have been exactly seven (7) abortion clinic workers killed in the last 35 years.
Sanger is only, like, the FOUNDER of PP…geez! Give her credit where credit is due. All of a sudden nobody likes her over there? Puhleeze.
I don’t think I’m going out on a limb to say that it is more dangerous to be a schoolteacher in this country than it is to be an abortion clinic worker.
So again, you’re not challenging the VALIDITY of the quotes that I’ve used, just where I happened to find them.
Watching you grasp at straws is so pathetic.
I am sorry TR. Please accept my apology. I meant to say this.
Where did you come up with 97% and 3%? Simple question.
Yeah, I am all about temper tantrums.
You post here.
Kind of like when PCers accuse the PL movement of being a terrorist movement because a few people break the law by lashing out with violence? There have been exactly seven (7) abortion clinic workers killed in the last 35 years.(and how many clinics have been vandalized, etc? how many people have been hurt? how often have antichoicers tried to use extortion to bully people into falling into line with their way of thinking?)
Sanger is only, like, the FOUNDER of PP…geez! Give her credit where credit is due. All of a sudden nobody likes her over there? Puhleeze.
I don’t think I’m going out on a limb to say that it is more dangerous to be a schoolteacher in this country than it is to be an abortion clinic worker.
Posted by: PajamaMama at March 31, 2008 11:54 AM
*******************************
Yes, Sanger founded PP and when she did abortion wasnt even legal. Or didnt you know that? She founded PP to teach poor women about contraception and at the time THAT was illegal too. Sanger was a nurse who worked with poor women in the slums of New York and saw them dying because of complications from child birth or from illegal abortions. She wanted to help them avoid getting pregnant in the first place. If I remember correctly Sanger died before Roe v Wade.
So again, you’re not challenging the VALIDITY of the quotes that I’ve used, just where I happened to find them.
Watching you grasp at straws is so pathetic.
Posted by: PajamaMama at March 31, 2008 11:59 AM
***************
What is pathetic is your inability to comprehend what Ive said or why having a primary source instead of a secondary or tertiary reference is meaningful and significant.
and your point is?…..
I am sorry TR. Please accept my apology. I meant to say this.
Where did you come up with 97% and 3%? Simple question.
Yeah, I am all about temper tantrums.
You post here.
Posted by: Carla at March 31, 2008 12:00 PM
*************************
What part of ‘annual report’ confuses you?
I know what the meaning and significance of primary, secondary and tertiary sources are, but I wasn’t aware that by posting here I was essentially submitting my writing work to be graded by YOU, professor. Thought I left English 101 behind 17 years ago. Getting a little bossy and full of yourself, dontcha think Tex?
I’ve noticed that most of the things you say on this board aren’t supported by ANY sources at all. I guess this makes it easy for you to follow your own “rule” about citing sources.
Posted by: TexasRed at March 31, 2008 12:16 PM
What part of ‘annual report’ confuses you?
+++++++
Oh, do you mean PP’s photocopy of the previous year’s annual “report” used to hide the fact that there are missing funds?
Do you have the original copy right there in front of you on your desk, Tex? Or are you getting your information from your computer, through an ISP, from a website designed by some web designer, working for a company that lies on a regular basis? Wouldn’t that be called a quinary source?
Sorry, wrong answer. You’re going to have to do better than that, sweetheart. It just doesn’t pass the academic smell test.
So undercover cops are doing dirty deeds?
Posted by: Edyt at March 30, 2008 11:35 PM
Please use a little common sense Edyt. The cops have to GO TO WHERE the dirty deed is done.
I know what the meaning and significance of primary, secondary and tertiary sources are, but I wasn’t aware that by posting here I was essentially submitting my writing work to be graded by YOU, professor. Thought I left English 101 behind 17 years ago. Getting a little bossy and full of yourself, dontcha think Tex?
I’ve noticed that most of the things you say on this board aren’t supported by ANY sources at all. I guess this makes it easy for you to follow your own “rule” about citing sources.
****************
And when did I ever quote anyone?
Oh, do you mean PP’s photocopy of the previous year’s annual “report” used to hide the fact that there are missing funds?
Do you have the original copy right there in front of you on your desk, Tex? Or are you getting your information from your computer, through an ISP, from a website designed by some web designer, working for a company that lies on a regular basis? Wouldn’t that be called a quinary source?
Sorry, wrong answer. You’re going to have to do better than that, sweetheart. It just doesn’t pass the academic smell test.
Posted by: PajamaMama at March 31, 2008 12:30 PM
******************************
I quotes statistics and I obtained them from a primary source – the report itself. The statistics had nothing to do with supposedly *hidden* funds. You really dont have the foggiest notion what youre talking about, obviously – you have no idea what I said or why a primary source is significant and a secondary source isnt – and I have to admit I find that more than a little amusing.
From PajamaMama
Kind of like when PCers accuse the PL movement of being a terrorist movement because a few people break the law by lashing out with violence? There have been exactly seven (7) abortion clinic workers killed in the last 35 years
********************************
Try looking up ‘abortion clinic violence’ – look at the statistics on not must murders but on bombings, vandalism, assault, not to mention the ever present threat of extortion. I had several but for some reason I cant get them to post
So which is it, Tex? Was Sanger a valiant and socially conscious humanitarian who wanted to empower and help the poor OR was she a misguided eugenacist and racist from whom PP wants desperately to distance themselves?
Can’t have it both ways.
So which is it, Tex? Was Sanger a valiant and socially conscious humanitarian who wanted to empower and help the poor OR was she a misguided eugenacist and racist from whom PP wants desperately to distance themselves?
Can’t have it both ways.
Posted by: PajamaMama at March 31, 2008 1:07 PM
*********************
Where do you get these idiotic delusions? Why do you imagine one has anything at all to do with the other? Sanger founded Planned Parenthood to help teach poor women about contraception – POOR women of all color. When Sanger founded Planned Parenthood abortion was illegal. So was teaching about birth control. If I remember correctly, she died before Roe V Wade. Is any part of this too complicated and confusing for you to comprehend? Sanger was a Social Darwinist which was fairly common place among the well educated and intelligent in the early 1900’s. Attitudes from 1908 really dont have anything at all to do with 2008 except for us to find it appalling that intelligent people would think that way. Many of the framers of the Constitution and BOR owned slaves and thought it was just and moral. That certainly has nothing to do with attitudes in America in 2008.
I imagine Sanger was also a condescending shrew…ever been called that, Tex?
https://feminist.org/rrights/violence.html
I imagine Sanger was also a condescending shrew…ever been called that, Tex?
Posted by: PajamaMama at March 31, 2008 1:32 PM
************
Occasionally … but only by petulant petty simple minded illiterate chiennes who resented having their ignorance pointed out to them and backsides handed to them on a platter ….
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=701
http://msnbc.com/modules/clinics/
Acts of violence against abortion clinics and their employees have been carried out across the United States throughout the 1980s and 1990s.
There were 1,700 acts of violence against abortion providers between 1977 and 1994, with four people killed in 1994 and one in 1993, according to statistics from the National Abortion Federation. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has logged 167 attacks against abortion clinics over the past 15 years.
In 1984, there were 18 bombings against abortion clinics. In 1993, there were 78 death threats aimed at clinic employees. And, in 1996, bombings, threats and harassment affected about one-third of U.S. abortion clinics.
As a rule I dont like using Wiki but for this purpose its adequate –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-related_violence
This is all in response to the assertion that there have *only* been 7 murders committed by the antichoice side and the suggestion that this was the sum total of the violence perpetrated by antichoicers –
Texasred, for future reference…if you have a post with more than one link, you’ll have to let the moderators know about it, so that we can know to publish it for you. The blog automatically saves them in the moderation if there is one more link because of the high number of SPAM comments it receives on a daily basis. :) Just post a message saying, “I’ve got a message in que”, and we’ll get it published for you. Hope that helps!
Yeah, TR, but your side murders 4,000 babies a day…
You’ve got quite a number compared to the “anti-choicers”
Elizabeth, pro-choicers do not murder babies.
Mothers murder babies.
Mothers do not get together collectively to kill their offspring.
Pro-lifers get together collectively and deliberately attack, threaten, bomb, and murder people.
Hardly the same thing.
Oh, and abortion isn’t illegal.
Threatening, harassing and killing people is.
If you support PP, you are supporting the murdering of babies whether or not you approve of that particular aspect of PP’s business. You can’t pick and choose. It’s not like I could say, Well I support the KKK because they have programs that feed the poor. WHO CARES? I’m still supporting racists.
And mothers don’t have to get together collectively to kill their offspring, that’s what PP gets together for, didn’t you know?
Elizabeth @2:46 exactly!
Pajama Mama @ 7:42,
Actually, a friend of mine got threatened by a neo-Nazi militant in a jail once for exposing PP’s racist roots & agenda to a black inmate. You’re not so far off; another friend of mine once observed several KKK members outside a southern abortion mill. They stood around and watched for awhile and, noting that most of the clientele/quarry were black, returned a verdict of “highly satisfactory”, and seeing that their efforts were not needed to stem the rising tide of color, left.
And I’m sure you know about Sanger’s warm reception at the KKK women’s rally in Silver Lake, NJ…where she got at least a dozen invitations to speak to similar groups elsewhere?
But nothings says genocide like the fact that over 1,400 innocent black children are slaughtered daily by PP and other chop shops.
Oh, and Edyt, Hitler never did anything illegal.
test post
Edyt,
You claim pro-lifers get together collectively and deliberately attack, threaten, bomb, and murder people. To make a statement such as this, you must know for certain who all the people involved in these activities are as well as their personal beliefs on the issue of abortion. If this is the case, I certainly hope you did your civic duty and reported their names to the proper authorities.
I’ve been dealing with browser technical issues for last couple hours and have been unable to post any comments. Just installed Firefox.
TR,
As you illustrated in your above posts by GIVING a secondary AND a tertiary source, even after your diversionary question and subsequent out-of-context mis-characterization of me, sometimes a secondary source (MSNBC) or even a questionable tertiary source (Wiki) is good enough for certain types of assertions. If there is a question as to the reliability of the data or quote being put forth, having a primary source is usually better. In that case, I would most definitely include one. But, since we’re not working toward Master’s degrees here, I wasn’t aware that it was a requirement for a quote from Margaret Sanger, with whom most readers here are quite familiar. I don’t feel the need to cut and paste it from a primary source in order to add validity; I simply Google it, and copy and paste it, since most of us have heard them before. I guess the worst that I could be accused of there is lack of originality.
So asking me your “question” about “primary, secondary, and tertiary” sources was simply a diversionary tactic to get the conversation off of the racist history (past AND present) of PP. You’re attempting to change the subject and it
Oh, and TR, here is a Secondary Source documenting the allegations of internal PP whistleblowers re: fraudulent annual reports from PP that may be covering up embezzlement and worse. If you need me to get the actual statements from these whistleblowers through the attorney general’s office, don’t bother letting me know:
http://www.miamiherald.com/548/story/473160.html
I disagree with Doug most of the time, and I find his tone a bit dismissive and his logic much too dry and utilitarian, but at least he doesn’t try to manufacture opportunities to insinuate that his debate opponent is stupid. He simply states his case and leaves it at that.
Thanks, PajamaMama. I guess that’s pretty accurate, and there are good reasons for it.
Emotional and religious arguments don’t apply to those with different beliefs and different feelings, so perhaps I do tend to sound “dismissive,” there. I’ve seen the same ones over and over for a long time, and while I don’t usually say they are “stupid,” etc., I do see that it’s not really worthwhile to just go back and forth with “Is,” and “Is not.”
Dry logic applies to us all, and I’d rather stay with what is true for all of us rather than yelling and screaming and ranting and raving.
“Utilitarian….”? I’m taking it for granted that we’re all independent consciousnesses here. So, what works for us all? Are we not all individuals, all with our “sayings” here? What do we have in common?