Rape video game features abortion
WARNING: Disturbing and graphic
CNN reported today on RapeLay, a Japanese video game that just went viral:
The game begins with a teenage girl on a subway platform. She notices you are looking at her and asks, “Can I help you with something?”
That is when you, the player, can choose your method of assault….
With the click of your mouse, you can grope her and lift her skirt. Then you can follow her aboard the train, assaulting her sister and her mother.
As you continue to play, “friends” join in and in a series of graphic, interactive scenes, you can corner the women, rape them again and again.
The game allows you to even impregnate a girl and urge her to have an abortion….
But the controversy that led to stopping sales of the game instead took it viral….
Ugh.
I wondered why abortion would be included in such a game. Wasn’t it shocking enough? Apparently pregnancy and abortion are recent additions – to increase the shock value. Because abortion is gross, just like rape. It wouldn’t be shocking to be impregnated by rape and deliver a beautiful baby. A reviewer wrote:
An interesting wildcard – and by interesting I mean “horrid” – is… there is a chance she will become pregnant. If she does become pregnant you’re supposed to force her to get an abortion, otherwise she gets more and more visibly pregnant each time you have sex. If you allow the child to be born then the woman will throw you in front of a train! Take that pro-life movement!…
Defining Moment…. Pregnancy and abortion are new twists on this filthy genre, and they were disturbing, but they still don’t quite win out. No, the winner on this one are the tears that glisten and move in the little girl’s eyes. That sort of attention to detail wins this game a huge pile of disturbing points.
So pregnancy and abortion in a rape video game were not quite the most disturbing element. That one of the rape victims was a child won out.
Then again, abortion is an unvanquished conquest to others playing RapeLay. From a message board (click to enlarge; “broke” means the rape victims starts liking it)…
Why am I even reporting this stuff? It messes up the head just to know some of the depth of depravity out there – and accepted in some circles.
I don’t know. I think some pro-lifers don’t really understand who we’re up against, how important abortion is to satan, how powerful a part abortion plays in the world’s spiral downward. Even I am still naive, I’m sure. I don’t get all of it or even much of it. I know we win in the end, but I’m not sure we realize how hard we’re called to fight – and pray.
I also want to note that while liberals say on one hand vile music, books, magazines, images, tv and movies don’t entice people to do evil, on the other, when it comes to something like RapeLay, “Women’s rights groups say they are so offensive and harmful to society that they should be banned,” according to the Huffington Post.
That’s only because they consider rape and forced abortions over the line. They admit the obvious connection when something offends them.
[HT: Alex R.]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Also, abortion is an excellent tool that rapists have at their disposal.
So lefty media and “women’s groups,” these games should be banned? But not “Grand Theft Auto” which features prostitution, drug dealing, cop killing, and beating elderly ladies with a baseball bat as good old fashioned fun? That game is sold in every store in America. Consistency much? Do a story on that.
Pop culture in Japan weighs HEAVY on the sexualization of girls in animé, adult women in costumes, and sex dolls.
I just don’t see myself ever visiting Japan.
Oh my God…this is…I’m going to go crawl under a rock now. -_-
Oh, Japan. You never cease to shock.
I suppose I could be angry, but honestly the vast, filthy stew of weird, disgusting porn that has originated from Japan just makes this particular addition seem…well, it’s darker than a lot of the other stuff, I admit, but it’s still in the right ballpark. I’m’a go watch some Death Note or something, and remind myself of the awesome media Japan has produced.
*is wearing a Death Note t-shirt right now*
YES.
But this started out on SomethingAwful, so it’s not surprising. This is far from the worst thing the internet can produce. For all of the joy and humor I get in the tubes, sometimes there’s some really messed-up stuff. You just have to know what to chalk up to the fact that human beings are screwed-up, give it as little attention as possible, and move on.
I’ll just put this in the same category as “Video of a cat being lit on fire” and be on my way.
Disgusting.
This probably shouldn’t shock me, but it does.
What is wrong with these people?
Actually, given that it’s come from Japan, I can’t say that I’m surprised. This game was probably created to help guys get off on the fantasy of raping a woman, not to shock people. Just a guess :-/
I’m watching an anime called Kaleido Star which is absolutely awesome! There are a lot of Japanese art (in the form of music, video games, movies, et al) that are very artistic and also very moral.
The unfortunate part is that the very immoral media is considered acceptable by Japanese culture. It does disgust me.
I like to promote the good forms of art which also have moral under-pinnings while criticizing the disgusting “art” which is very immoral.
There is plenty of American media which is just as vile… :(
I heard about this months ago. You can actually find video of it online. Its so disturbing. Even gamers who GET PAID to play these games and write reviews were creeped out by the whole thing.
Somehow, I am just not shocked by it. Women have NOT been liberated. We are now just reduced to pieces of sexual meat. Our sexuality is not honored, our fertility is not honored, our brains are not honored (hey, abortionists can lie to us and its okay!)
Oh em g—
Wait, it’s Japan?
Nothing to see here!
I disagree w/ one point in the article…the final point. “That’s only because they consider rape and forced abortions over the line…” I don’t think many abortion supporters (particularly those who actually PROFIT off of the sale of abortion) consider “forced abortion” to be “over the line”. Planned Parenthood has given financial & verbal support to China’s 1 child policy, which includes the forced IUD insertion, forced use of chemical forms of birth control, & forced abortion. They habitually fail to report the statutory rape of girls who, in many cases, are coerced & forced to abort in order to protect their “boyfriend” from prosecution…baby has DNA which is evidence! How many abortions do they do on girls who were forced onto that table by parents, parents of the father of the baby, the father of the baby,authority figure (teacher, counselor, coach, school nurse) etc…? Girls crying. Girls searching for an escape hatch finding only a pill or shot to calm them for the procedure. PS…while “rape” may be “over the line”, they clearly don’t find STATUTORY RAPE the least bit offensive. It is, however, PROFITABLE!
The pro-aborts promised me that legalized abortion would stop the objectification of females and give us total equal rights!!!!?????
Promises, promises. ):
Can I delete Japan off my Google maps?
The abortion isn’t the horrifying part, it’s the fact that the abortion is FORCED. The forced abortion is just as horrifying as the forced rape. It wouldn’t bother me at all if the abortion was chosen (in fact, I’d consider that a good thing. women who have abortions are so underrepresented in the media).
Why is it that you people consider forced sex and forced abortion wrong, but not forced pregnancy?
This is just sick. I cannot believe that someone actually created a game that promotes such violence. Disgusting.
Thank you for posting this Jill.
On one hand, this is quite disturbing and unsettling. Especially when you consider the influence this game will have cultivating the seeds of sexual violence and rape across the globe.
On the other hand, for Christians it offers perspective and confirmation that we are living in what the Bible refers to as the Last Days:
“But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be” when “the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” Mt 24:37 & Ge 6:5
“evil men…will grow worse and worse” 2 Ti 3:13
I was channel surfing some months ago and came across an old classic movie from 1964 called The Incredible Mr. Limpet with Don Knotts. Sometimes the gradual decline of our culture is not as apparent but if you really want to see how far we’ve fallen, check out a wholesome classic movie from the 50’s or 60’s. There is an intrinsic goodness that permeates the storyline and dialogue. Yes, it will seem kind of corny but women are cherished, authority is respected and godly values are upheld.
And when you compare it with Rapelay, you’ll think Jesus could come back any minute.
Approximately 180 million children are conceived every year, pre-ordained by the Heavenly Father to grow up and take their rightful place in our society.
We intentionally kill 24% of those children in the womb.
When you couple this with the rest of the evil raging in our world, trafficking of children into sexual slavery, the genocide in Darfur, gang rapes in CA, homicide bombings of innocent women and children in the Middle East, the violent drug wars, kidnappings and police corruption in Mexico…could there be any greater indictment of the sinfulness and wickedness of Man?
But where sin abounds, His Grace will much more abound. The Apostle Paul wrote to the young believers in Galatia saying, “My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you…”, summarizing his work, in partnership with the Holy Spirit, to bring the Bride of Christ, His Church into Spiritual Maturity – Christlikeness.
But at the same time, we need to be aware that satan (like Jill, I don’t like to capitalize his name because it reminds me he is low, defeated, stripped of his authority, under my feet) is also working to form his image in Man by deceiving and corrupting men’s hearts through lust.
And Man stands in the middle and chooses who he wants to be like.
(hint: RUN TO THE CROSS OF CALVARY! BE WASHED, MADE CLEAN, MADE NEW!)
Call on Jesus, repent from your sin, commit your life to serve Him, Today!
well for me another really gross part is the message board
the guy’s DAD is playing this game and if his DAD is playing it, it’s gotta be good.
Now that is just sick and depraved.
No wonder Christ had to warn these people that it would be better they had a millstone around their neck…..
Magna was one of the reasons I stopped doing network/internet security 10 years ago. I was getting sick from the depravities coming from the east. Now this is over the top… And I guess the laws of the country think this kind of anime is “artistic” thus making it legal.
I have the feeling that Cecile Richards inspired the concept of this game.
This game is for the purpose of teaching people, especially young men, to be satanic, hateful, pieces of crap with no compassion or mercy for others. This is the socialization that Satan wants people to receive. If they buy the ideology taught by this, and live what they now believe, they will be the cruelest of criminals. Never mind whether their politics is liberal or conservative. I’m sure that Satan can find a place for such people on both sides of the political aisle.
“Why is it that you people consider forced sex and forced abortion wrong, but not forced pregnancy?”
Forced sex and abortion (forced or not) both involve violating the rights of others to life, liberty, and property, in every sense of the word.
Why is that you consider killing a helpless unborn acceptable, violating the unborn’s right to life, as well as to liberty against assault, asa well as right to property (own body) against being disturbed?
Answer that.
It’s not forced pregnancy if the woman engaged in sex, and pregnancy is natural consequence of her actions.
Your issue is that she should be allowed to choose to skip the consequence by killing the unborn, yet you see no problem forcing men who have sex to take the consequence.
You are not about choices. You are about power.
Rape involves power of one human over another in similar fashion abortion is.
Same moral ballpark. Same predatory attitudes. Same me first mentality. Same “don’t care who you hurt to get what you want” atttiude.
In order to justify your stand, you play card of the unborn (which you admit to be human) are parasites.
No different from how the Nazis justified killing the Jews and other “undesirables” of society.
Your mentality is as much a victimiser as anyone guilty of the most heinous crimes.
And people give me grief because I don’t allow my children to watch anything done in an anime style. It’s just easier to have a blanket rule for the household that sets clear guidelines than to have to try to evaluate every bit of anime for appropriateness before they see it… the lines get crossed so fast!
It’s especially hard because my in-laws allow my SIL to watch Naruto (an anime show/video game) and it’s hard to explain to my SIL with DS why I won’t let my kids watch it. I just don’t want them exposed to the “innocent” stuff and accidentally come across the hardcore stuff (of which there is TONS) and have their innocence destroyed.
I’ve never allowed Pokemon or any of the other Japanese materials either. (If nothing else, they encourage spending a TON of money to have the biggest card collection and with seven kids, we don’t have that kind of money to waste.)
I will say we did have a cute moment once on an elevator. Since my children are not hidden away from the world, even though they don’t watch this stuff themselves, they are aware of it. When my oldest son was 4, we got on an elevator and another kid had a “Pikachu” helium balloon. My son looked at it, pointed, and said, “Mommy, It’s Look At You!” (I guess he always heard it as “Peek At You” instead of “Pikachu”)
The japaneese, and nerdy (probably American) fatwads that are never gonna get any consentually, have this amazing love for abusing women and treating them like objects, at least in sexual acts. The abortion part is a new twist to me though. As to this being used as a tool of subtle brainwasherey, anyone that plays this type of game isn’t having sex anytime soon, I assure you. Also sexual depravatity and hedonism are new things, the cradle to democracy and philosophy (greece), is known to have had many buildings that were basically “orgy rooms” for lack of a better word, where many depraved and bi-sexual acts happened. Alexander the great also had many male and female lovers, who I’m sure did a kinky thing or two. Even the Egyptians had heirglyphic pornography.
Actually, Legion, a 22 year old male heavily involved in these types of materials just attempted this past weekend to convince my 17 year old daughter to sneak out behind our backs and meet up with him.
We had a long talk when she (thank God) came clean with us (without going) about the fact that 22 year old men normally date women who at the very least are over the age of 18… and when they go after teens it is because they are counting on their naivete to keep them from realizing what a creep the guy is (a fact that ALL of her friends also told her.)
When I saw the pictures of himself that he sent her on her cellphone my initial thought was “OMG, this is the guy Brad Paisley wrote the song ‘I’m So Much Cooler Online’ about!”
For safety’s sake she is now without a cell phone and in the custody of my parents, both police officers, on her way to, quite literally, the middle of nowhere.
Banning all anime programming is like banning all live-action shows, because in Japan, animation is seen as an equivalent form of media presentation, unlike in the states. But I suppose outlawing all forms of entertainment is a viable alternative to…umm…watching your kids’ shows and movies before they see them/watching the programming with them? :/
Not sure if you’re discussing the post in general or our family’s ban…
Sorry, I simply don’t have time to view every bit of anime to determine when it is or is not appropriate, especially when I know that being exposed to it as “safe” with mom means that when exposed to a “not safe” form of it elsewhere they wouldn’t have the initial reaction of “Whoa, this might not be good” that I want them to have.
There are a TON of completely acceptable movie/TV options and I prefer my children to read books and play actively or with arts&crafts materials, etc., anyway.
But every bit of media in this house has been previewed by either my husband or myself before going on to the children, and we DO watch WITH them… or far, far more frequently, READ with them. (My 8 year old and I are reading The Wizard of Oz books together right now…)
You missed my point. “Anime”, although a genre of it’s own, isn’t really so, and cannot be all lumped together as you’re attempting to do. That would be like comparing “House” to “LazyTown”. You saying that you do not let your kids watch “any anime, period” is as ridiculous to me as saying I won’t let my kids watch LazyTown because I saw the show House one time, and that live action stuff is just out of bounds for my kids!!!
What I’m getting out of what you’re saying is “I don’t like anime, therefore I’m not going to bother previewing any for my children and out of laziness/disinterest/ignorance, I’m just going to declare every single thing that looks possibly Japanese and animated as off-limits.” That’s pretty unfair to me…but then again…I’m an anime nerd, and I will watch Naruto with the kids, and Death Note or Ninja Scroll after they go to bed, and mark the distinction.
The only thing further I have to say about this is, they’re really missing out if they can’t watch Howl’s Moving Castle. That is all.
Why is it that you people consider forced sex and forced abortion wrong, but not forced pregnancy?
There is no forced pregnancy without forced sex. If a woman have consensual sex and the natural consequence of pregnancy results, no one forced that on her. And opposing her ability to kill that child she made is not forcing her to be pregnant, any more than I am forcing you to breathe by not sticking a plastic bag over your head.
Funny how opposing abortion is forcing pregnancy on a woman who chose to get pregnant but dismembering a unborn child with forceps is not force at all?
Ummmm … Japan has a long and less-than-noble history of some really sick pr0n. As shocking as it is, RapeLay isn’t even the worst of it. Go search Google for “hentai” some time, and be prepared to bleach your brain afterward….
(Needless to say, hentai is very NSFW.)
I really don’t understand Japanese pr0n. I mean, who really considers tentacle rape to be sexy? What the heck happened to that culture to produce such disturbed stuff?
Oh, also, RapeLay isn’t even new. I don’t know why CNN is making a big deal now, because there are reviews of the game from back in 2007….
“I really don’t understand Japanese pr0n. I mean, who really considers tentacle rape to be sexy? What the heck happened to that culture to produce such disturbed stuff?”
Posted by: Naaman at March 31, 2010 7:45 AM
For the record, “hentai” is the Japanese word for “pervert.”
As to how Japanese porn got so weird… Japan has had a law against graphic depiction of genitals or pubic hair since WWII. So, some “clever” artists realized that aliens/octopi don’t have the sort of genitals that would need to be censored. Mix that with the all the graphic porn having to go underground, and let it simmer for a few decades, and poof! Weird porn.
It’s not fair to judge all Japanese media based solely on the extreme porn, though, any more than it’s fair to judge all American media based solely on the extreme porn.
Posted by: ProChoiceGal at March 30, 2010 10:26 PM
——
What’s a forced abortion? Aren’t all abortions forced?
What I’m getting out of what you’re saying is “I don’t like anime, therefore I’m not going to bother previewing any for my children and out of laziness/disinterest/ignorance, I’m just going to declare every single thing that looks possibly Japanese and animated as off-limits.” That’s pretty unfair to me…but then again…I’m an anime nerd, and I will watch Naruto with the kids, and Death Note or Ninja Scroll after they go to bed, and mark the distinction.
Posted by: xalisae at March 31, 2010 6:37 AM
The point you are missing: they are MY children.
Not having anime in their life is not going to deprive them of a full and happy life. If, as adults they choose to investigate the genre, they can do so with adult sensibilities and the ability of an adult mind to discern.
There are so many amazing movies, videos, games, and books in the world that I seriously doubt they will have a moment of deprivation. Or was the western world somehow less because children read Dr. Seuss and watched the Waltons instead of reading anime comics and watching Naruto?
Quite frankly, my children are limited to 2 hours of TV/videos and 2 hours of computer games per week anyway.
The rest of the time they can be out in the yard playing hopscotch, gardening, playing with Play Doh or riding their bikes or scooters.
The point YOU fail to see is that there is no legitimate NEED to have anime in their life (no one ever died from not being exposed to it) and there IS a potential DOWNSIDE to being exposed to it.
But hey, if you want to call a pediatric RN who works nights on the weekends so that she can be with her seven kids homeschooling them all week lazy, go for it.
if hentai it wasn’t harmless, how they found tons of this stuff in the computer of convicted murderer David Westerfield after they arrested him for the brutal killing of 7 year old Danielle Van Dam?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Westerfield
How about John Gardner III. Suspicious of murdering Chelsea King, do you think internet smut, and fantasies of young girls did not affect his psyche?
http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/cgi/prosoma.dll?searchby=offender&id=18601061E8554
I agree with Kelli, this is EXTREMELY disturbing, but I wouldn’t judge the whole country by this sort of filth. I’m sure there’s Japanese that don’t like it, either.
Japan legalized abortion after WWII, partly as a means of controlling population growth. The abortion rate there is higher than here in the U.S., however, for a long time birth control pills were illegal there! Now because of the low birthrate, Japan, like most of the developed world, is facing a “demographic winter” and a situation in which a small number of younger people will be taking care of a large aging population.
South Korea has the lowest birth rate in the world, they are not even at replacement level.
The U.S., on the other hand, had a robust population growth of 9 percent in the last decade.
@Maria: I’m not saying that porn doesn’t affect the mind, but your argument is fallacious. Remember that David Westerfield also ate large quantities of bread, and that John Gardner III sometimes ate toast for breakfast!
But that doesn’t prove that bread caused or influenced the rape/murder.
@Maria: I’m not saying that porn doesn’t affect the mind, but your argument is fallacious. Remember that David Westerfield also ate large quantities of bread, and that John Gardner III sometimes ate toast for breakfast!
But that doesn’t prove that bread caused or influenced the rape/murder.
Posted by: Chris at March 31, 2010 11:26 AM
No, but there is a far more direct link between seeing violence and committing violence and eating bakery products and committing violence.
This argument seems as equally fallacious as the one you are criticizing.
Christ Arsenault
Nope, lots of women CHOOSE abortion! Out of their own free will!
I don’t know why anti-choicers are pretending to be anti-rape all of the sudden. Most antis that I’ve met have been very pro-rape. Sadly, that doesn’t surprise me. They’re for assaulting pregnant women, so it’s not surprising that they’d be for assaulting women in other ways, too.
I don’t know why anti-choicers are pretending to be anti-rape all of the sudden. Most antis that I’ve met have been very pro-rape. Sadly, that doesn’t surprise me. They’re for assaulting pregnant women, so it’s not surprising that they’d be for assaulting women in other ways, too.
Posted by: ProChoiceGal at March 31, 2010 11:46 AM
Citation for that assertion, please?
“I don’t know why anti-choicers are pretending to be anti-rape all of the sudden. Most antis that I’ve met have been very pro-rape.”
Posted by: ProChoiceGal at March 31, 2010 11:46 AM
Yeah, I’m with Elisabeth. Sources, or it never happened.
Nope, lots of women CHOOSE abortion! Out of their own free will!
I wouldn’t brag about that. So forced abortions are worse than chosen abortions? A woman is wounded and a baby killed in either scenario and I oppose free will abortions the same as forced abortions. In many ways, it’s far more disturbing that a mother would choose of her own free will to kill her child. Think Andrea Yates, Dena Schlosser, Susan Smith and the uproar that caused. While there are child murderers out there that should be abhorred, it’s contrary to nature for a mother to kill her own baby. So a outside perpetrator forcing a mother to submit to abortion is not better or worse than a mother handing over her money and hopping in the stirrups herself. Being forced into doing something despicable is much less damning that choosing to do it yourself.
So I’d ease up on the enthusiasm that so many women are so morally barren that they CHOOSE abortion (exclamation point) of their own free will (another exclamation point).
PCG,
You have posted on your blog about being raped. I am hoping that you have gotten the help you need to heal from that HORRIFIC experience.
You also posted about prolife=prorape. I eagerly await your list of those here, there and everywhere that fit that equation.
Most antis that I’ve met have been very pro-rape. Sadly, that doesn’t surprise me. They’re for assaulting pregnant women, so it’s not surprising that they’d be for assaulting women in other ways, too.
By the way, not to indulge your nonsense, but it is we anti’s that are responsible for fetal homicide/prenatal protection laws and it is you that oppose our attempts to protect pregnant women from assault and obtain justice for victims. Since you oppose laws that provide stiffer penalties for men that assault pregnant women, it is you that is “for assaulting pregnant women.” You are so terrified of not being able to abort on demand that you will let people that attack pregnant women and take their babies from them without retribution that provide another layer of support for pregnant women. Did you know the number one cause of death for pregnant women? HOMICIDE. Men who don’t want the baby who have a mother than DOES want the baby, often times, the father will kill both mother and child if they can’t just get to the baby. Much appreciation for your complete disregard for women’s safety.
Oh, and I would think having instruments shoved into your womb is the ultimate assault on a pregnant woman, and you wholeheartedly support that too.
Kettle, meet ProChoice Gal.
Oh and please define prorape? What activities is one involved in? Is there a group? A blog? A march?
pro-choice gal, Lila Rose’s undercover videos showed planned parenthood helping a girl cover up the fact she was pregnant by statutory RAPE.
I can actually show you video that proves, YOUR SIDE is pro-rape.
Chrstin Gilbert was a Down Syndrome girl who was RAPED and the Tiller did an abortion on her that not only destroyed the evidence of the rape (the child) but the abortion KILLED Miss Gilbert!
Yes, you pro”choice” people are definitely the pro-rape gang.
I’ve been to ProChoice Gals website. She goes so far as to call pro-life women who have been raped, pro-rape. And then deletes their replies. Unbelievable.
A more fitting title of her blog would be “Desperate to Rationalize my Becoming an Abortionist in Any Way Possible”
I’ve also seen the photos on the I Am Tiller Pics of Shame. Is Tiller a type of paper?
Jacqueline wrote:
And opposing her ability to kill that child she made is not forcing her to be pregnant, any more than I am forcing you to breathe by not sticking a plastic bag over your head.
Oooh! :) Sorry for the non-sequitur, but: I may need to borrow that metaphor; that’s a great one!
I don’t know why anti-choicers are pretending to be anti-rape all of the sudden. Most antis that I’ve met have been very pro-rape. Sadly, that doesn’t surprise me. They’re for assaulting pregnant women, so it’s not surprising that they’d be for assaulting women in other ways, too.
Posted by: ProChoiceGal at March 31, 2010 11:46 AM
….I am in awe of your stupidity.
I’m split between Team Xalisae and Team Elisabeth on the anime thing. On one hand, they’re Elisabeth’s kids and don’t watch a lot of TV anyway, but on the other hand, I don’t think anime geared at children is any more likely to be inappropriate than live-action movies or books aimed at children. Both have the potential to be inappropriate, but the fact that some Japanese cartoons are hugely inappropriate is like the fact that some live-action movies are hugely inappropriate.
As for, “Most antis that I’ve met have been very pro-rape,” first of all, that’s a ridiculous statement. Second of all, even if this were true, it’s the “in my experience” fallacy. I could live a life in which all the black people I knew were drug-addicted gang members, but that wouldn’t justify my going online and saying, “I don’t know why black people are pretending to be anti-drugs and gangs all of the sudden. Most black people that I’ve met have been very pro-drugs and gangs.”
No worries. PCG spouts and runs back to her blog peeps.
Yes, there is a more direct link! I don’t think very many people genuinely believe that violent porn has absolutely zero effect on the mind, and I’d be very surprised if someone seriously claimed that bread causes more violence.
I don’t know what argument you’re calling fallacious, though. If you thought I was arguing that violent porn doesn’t cause violence, then yes, I would have made a fallacious argument. But I tried to make it clear that I was not making that argument; the first thing I wrote was “I’m not saying that porn doesn’t affect the mind”. I was just trying to point out that proof by example is a fallacy. Sorry for any confusion, or if I misinterpreted what you wrote.
As to why I go to the trouble to point all this out? Because I’m a religious pro-lifer from the “other side”, so to speak. I love math and science, and many of the people who share my interests are of the liberal/pro-choice/no-place-for-religion stereotype. And whenever they see a fallacious argument (in particular, arguments from those who don’t share their beliefs), they smirk and think to themselves, how backwards those guys are. It’s an ego-boost that hardens the heart.
And that makes me sad.
As a sexual assault survivor and the mother of a daughter who was raped and sodomized when she was three years old, I am EXTREMELY OFFENDED and SICKENED by ProChoice Gal’s assertion that “ant-choicers” are pro-rape. I can’t even begin to tell YOU the devastation my daughter’s assault caused for my family — at 21 years old she is still trying to cope with it. I’m sorry Jill, but ProChoice Gal, you can go STRAIGHT TO HELL!!
“Yeah, I’m with Elisabeth. Sources, or it never happened.”
In PCG’s mind, if the unborn is unwanted by the mother bearing the unborn, the unborn is guilty of rape against the mother, and our support of the right of the unborn to life against the mother’s desire “not to be raped” (according to PCG’s twisted logic) is in PCG’s mind, our side supporting rape.
Welcome to the twilight zone that is the “pro-choice” side which is really nothing more than pro-power trip over others, be it power over life of another or power over those like us by demanding we pay for that “choice” to murder.
Phillymiss,
I am so, so sorry about for what your daughter, yourself and your family have been through. As a pro-life rape survivor, the majority of PCG comments make me physically sick to my stomach. I think she really believes she is helping women though.
PCG is already a large part of hell and doesn’t even realize it. Please keep her and all other young women in your prayers.
Phylimiss, oh how terrible!! My prayers are with you. Thats tragic!!! My prayers are with your poor daughter. PCG, we Pl women are Not pro-rape! That is totally offensive and ubsurd!!!!
Praxedes, I’m terribly sorry for you too! That’s tragic! My prayers are with you, and I hope you’re doing okay.
I’m thinking that PCG thinks that because prolifers don’t support the bodily autonomy idea behind abortion rights that thus we must also be for rape.
We do however, support bodily autonomy. Sadly, (for proaborts) the body they are aborting is not their own. It is the body of their baby. Therefore, bodily autonomy rights of the woman/mother end.
I was under the impression that only 1-3% of abortions are b/c of rape. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. In any event, I always believed that a woman was given ‘The morning after pill’ if she so chose to take it after rape. I thought it went with the rape exam.??? Don’t most rape victims call the cops and get to an ER immediatly??
As for this game?? It’s satanic. Burn it!
I’d also hope that someone is watching men who play this mindless game. I’d venture to say “WARNING” because they might be plotting a rape.?? I’d like to think that liberals and conservatives alike would find this thing offensive, repulsive and disgusting!!!!! Maybe that’s one thing we could all agree on!
Nope, lots of women CHOOSE abortion! Out of their own free will!
Posted by: ProChoiceGal at March 31, 2010 11:46 AM
Posted by: Chris at March 31, 2010 3:33 PM
——
So Chris – do they smirk when presented with a valid argument as well? Or do they go silent?
Surely you must be familiar with a guy named Pontius Pilate, who when encountered with a perfectly innocent man, along with false accusations, questioned truth, washed his hands, and the executed Jesus of Nazareth.
Intellectual honesty has to be present to acknowledge your own argument has been proven false. Avoiding intellectual honesty is the real problem – even when truth is staring you in the face.
I’d rather live a life with intellectually honest simpletons than deceptive geniuses.
I thought of a quote I once heard that would be fitting for underneath Beautiful Baby Choice’s photo.
“A mother is only as happy as her saddest child.”
Holy Virgin Mother Pray for us to Jesus Christ Our Mericiful Lord
Phillymiss and Praxedes,
I’m so sorry for what happened to you. It’s wrong and unfair that anybody should have to go through something so terrible.
Heather and Lucy,
Thank you for your kind words. I was raped twice in the late 80s (about a year apart) both by men I knew. I never reported either rape and did not even talk about these rapes until I got into counseling 10 plus years later.
I have heard that very few pregnancies are due to rape. I believe that rape is so underreported that it is impossible to calculate this. I also personally believe that a very small percentage of women become pregnant due to rape because every part (body, mind, soul)of the survivor is stressed and she is therefore less likely to become pregnant even if she is ovulating. Again, this is just a personal belief. I do remember being severely stressed and worried about being pregnant but also knew that if I were, that the child should not be punished for what someone else had done to me.
Legal abortion has only further objectified and controlled women, the things abortion supporters said it would stop. God has turned all of the pain I went through into Very Good things but I had to give all my pain over to Him. I have also learned the IMPORTANCE of forgiveness — this is very hard for me to do most of the time.
I read Christin Gilbert’s story today. I had never heard of Christin before. We need to remember her story and pain and share it with others. I don’t see Christin’s story on the “I am Dr. Tiller” site. Why do we humans kill the Lights that are sent to us?
Best wishes for a Blessed Easter to you and your families.
“I’m thinking that PCG thinks that because prolifers don’t support the bodily autonomy idea behind abortion rights that thus we must also be for rape.”
What PCG does not understand is that our stance AGAINST rape is an EXTENSION of our pro-life stance. Rape comes from mindset of LACK of respect for human life of another. Just as abortion comes from that same lack of respect. To be sure, not all rapes end in murder, but the violent actions in the first place neverthless show that utter disregard.
I am so sorry Phillymiss and Praxedes. My heart goes out to you both.
PCG has not turned her pain into fighting for the rights of women(especially the little females in the womb)She will be continuing her education in bitterness and rage by becoming an abortionist.
I haven’t read through every comment in response to mind, so excuse me if I’ve not responded.
“Don’t most rape victims call the cops and get to an ER immediatly??”
That is absolutely false. Most rapes are not reported (http://www.rainn.org/statistics).
“So forced abortions are worse than chosen abortions?”
Of course! Sex is good, but forced sex is bad. Pregnancy is good, but forced pregnancy is bad. Abortion is good, but forced abortion is bad.
As for some people that have been offended at my anti-choice=pro-rape comment.. I was not trying to say that every anti-choicer is pro-rape (although I’d venture to say that most of them are), just like not every anti-choice is ill-intentioned or misogynistic. HOWEVER, every anti-choice IS support a pro-rape, badly-intentioned, and misogynistic cause. You can support a horrible cause and be a good person. Misguided people can still be good people.
I also understand the fact that some anti-choice women have been raped, too. Yes, it’s possible for them to support a pro-rape cause. I’ve met rape survivors who are also rape apologists, because they perpetuate the myth that rape victims should share the responsibility in their own crimes. They’re still WRONG, just as rape victims who support the anti-choice movement are WRONG.
To the person who said that if a woman consented to sex, then she cannot be forced through a pregnancy-
1) Your point is most likely moot, because you most likely support forcing rape victims through pregnancies, too.
2) Even if she did consent to pregnancy somehow, she can always withdraw consent. If she does withdraw consent and no longer wants to go through the pregnancy, then she most certainly can be forced through the pregnancy. Forcing women through pregnancies is not a pro-woman goal. It hurts women. It traumatizes women. Do anti-choicers care? No. I have not met ONE anti who cares about the trauma that a woman may experience because of a pregnancy. Not one.
Abortion is good?
Look at these children and tell me that abortion is good! It wasn’t too good for them!
And the baby on the right is a little girl. So much for you claiming to be pro-woman.
PCG: Of course! Sex is good, but forced sex is bad. Pregnancy is good, but forced pregnancy is bad. Abortion is good, but forced abortion is bad.
Me: So says a person (yourself) who has a mentality of a rapist and predator against unborn babies and same mentality of many a rapist OF BLAMING THE INNOCENT VICTIMS for getting themselves PHYSICALLY HARMED.
Forced murder against anyone is bad, period.
That is what you support.
PCG: As for some people that have been offended at my anti-choice=pro-rape comment.. I was not trying to say that every anti-choicer is pro-rape (although I’d venture to say that most of them are), just like not every anti-choice is ill-intentioned or misogynistic. HOWEVER, every anti-choice IS support a pro-rape, badly-intentioned, and misogynistic cause.
Me: Then by your logic, you are pro-rapist, badly-intentioned, and misoogynistic since you advocate right of women to kill their own female unborn babies if they don’t want those babies because of the genders of the babies.
After all, you deny choice to unborn babies that right to live. So by your own logic, you are a rapist against babies, since you are for assault against them without their choice and consent.
After all you DO THE SAME THING MANY RAPISTS DO: blame the victims. Whereas degenerate guys blame gals for not wearing enough as their “defense” in rape cases, you BLAME THE VICTIMS of abortions by saying they are UNFIT to live since they are raping their mothers who don’t want them.
Same mentality as rapists that you have of BLAMING THE VICTIMS for getting themselves destroyed either physically and mentally.
Given how you define rape to make unborn babies out to be rapists of their mothers if the pregnancies are unwanted, then we can feel free to use your OWN STUPID DEFINITIONS to call you a rapist by YOUR OWN TERMS.
That makes you the worst kind of anti-choicer you accused others of.
Without right to life, the right to choose anything is moot.
But then again, your hatred of unborn babies will give you cause to say anything no matter if those very things can also be used to accuse you with the same fallacious nature you accused others of in regards to being pro-rape.
PCG: You can support a horrible cause and be a good person. Misguided people can still be good people.
Me: Your words demonstrate that you support a horrible cause and you are horrible person to state unborn babies are rapists and parasites if their mothers don’t want them.
PCG: also understand the fact that some anti-choice women have been raped, too. Yes, it’s possible for them to support a pro-rape cause.
Me: And using your stupid logic, it means it is more than possible for pro-choice-to be anti-choice in regards to lives of others to support a pro-rape cause.
PCG: I’ve met rape survivors who are also rape apologists, because they perpetuate the myth that rape victims should share the responsibility in their own crimes. They’re still WRONG, just as rape victims who support the anti-choice movement are WRONG.
Me: And you do the SAME EXACT THING you accused others of” you perpetuate the myth that ABORTION VICTIMS deserved what they got for in your words, being rapists and parasites. You are very sick human being.
PCG: To the person who said that if a woman consented to sex, then she cannot be forced through a pregnancy- 1) Your point is most likely moot, because you most likely support forcing rape victims through pregnancies, too.
Me: Typical of folks like you- avoid dealing with the points made.
No, it is moot on you, since even when many pro-lifers DO SUPPORT right of rape victims to abort, you would still say they are pro-rapists for being against abortion in much less extreme cases.
Your hypocrisy and deceit is easy for others to spot.
PCG: 2) Even if she did consent to pregnancy somehow, she can always withdraw consent. If she does withdraw consent and no longer wants to go through the pregnancy, then she most certainly can be forced through the pregnancy. Forcing women through pregnancies is not a pro-woman goal. It hurts women. It traumatizes women. Do anti-choicers care? No. I have not met ONE anti who cares about the trauma that a woman may experience because of a pregnancy. Not one.
Me: As usual, your delusion of claiming to speak for others’ thoughts, views, and minds show itself.
But when all you got is vitrol, hate-filled rants, and hysterical slurs you throw at us, it only shows that you are OUR BEST ADVERSTISEMENT for what kind of folks the so-called PRO-CHOICERS are really about.
Get help.
Please.
I know some pro-choicers who would be EMBARASSED to read your comments.
Even if she did consent to pregnancy somehow, she can always withdraw consent.
No, she can’t, anymore than if I consented to take some girl scouts camping for the weekend in a remote part of the woods and then decide, wait, I don’t want to supervise them anymore. So I leave them without food or water in dangerous elements, because, although I consented, I can withdraw consent.
Unlike these girls scouts, who have the hope of someone coming to save them in spite of my “choice to withdraw consent.” When a woman withdraws consent to carry the child she created, that child is murdered on the spot, with no hope of rescue.
Furthermore, people CAN withdraw consent to parent, but not by killing their child. They are obligated to hand that child over to someone who can care for her. So if I withdraw consent to care for my child, I can’t cease feeding her until I have found an alternative. So if I withdraw consent on a Friday and can’t find a caregiver til Monday, I am obligated for those days.
So no, you can’t create a human being and withdraw your consent to care for that human being by killing said human being. You can make an adoption plan and relinquish your duties at such a point when doing so won’t harm the innocent child you chose to make.
Hey, in case you haven’t noticed, you can’t give a fetus up for adoption.
You’ve given an example of where withdrawing would be immoral, not impossible. Withdrawing consent during pregnancy certainly is possible, and if you restrict her right to withdraw that consent, then you ARE forcing her through the pregnancy.
And in case you have not notice, you are for forcing the unborn baby (which you admit more than once is human) to die against his or her will.
What does that make you?
And you blame the unborn for getting themselves killed, including female ones?
What does that make you?
You can’t give a fetus up NOW for adoption. But what if you could someday? What if technology advanced so far that a fetus could be transplanted into another woman’s womb. Would the mother then have the moral obligation to give that child up for adoption? Would the fetus THEN be a person with rights?
What about embryos that are frozen? They can be implanted in any woman.
Technology does not designate personhood. BIOLOGY designates personhood. A human being is a human being is a human being no matter the level of development or the location of that human being.
Some rights are very important….like a woman having the right to control her own body. But other rights are MORE important, like the right to LIVE. Some rights trump other rights. You have the right to drive your car down the street, but not if someone is standing in the road. Your rights cannot take rights away from others. The right of that person to not be harmed or killed is more important than your right to drive your vehicle on the road.
This is a good argument to counter PCG’s parasite claim about the unborn:
http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2009/07/10/worst-pro-legalized-abortion-argument-ever-the-unborn-are-parasites/
By that line of reasoning, a woman would be totally justified in killing her baby a day before its due date.
That absurdity aside, their analysis fails (at least legally, if not morally). While you are never responsible for keeping someone else alive, you are responsible for doing so if you created the situation in which they are dependent upon you. The classic example is a person who is drowning in the ocean. You, as a boater with a life preserver, are under no obligation to help them out of the water. If, however, you were the one who chucked her overboard, then watched her drown, you can bet that a jury would convict your immoral butt for murder, not for ruining her clothes by getting her wet.
Likewise, you are under no obligation to give a dying person a kidney to save his life, but, if you ripped his kidneys out of his body, you would be charged with murder if he died from those injuries. If the only way to avoid his death is to give him your kidneys, you can bet that your options are to fork over an organ or be charged with murder.
Just saying.
Hey, in case you haven’t noticed, you can’t give a fetus up for adoption.
No- just like you can’t leave a child unsupervised or without food because you don’t have an immediate alternative. You must wait until you CAN place for adoption. Killing/abandoning/neglecting children is not acceptable because you decide you just don’t want to carry/care for a child and you demand it stop THIS INSTANT. Your “I want what I want and I want it NOW.” in spite of the fact that you consented to the situation you are in does not justify killing a human being. Actually, this will blow your mind, NOTHING justifies a mother murdering her child. Ever.
Think about this: If I take you on a boat ride and decide 3 miles off shore that I don’t consent to have you on my boat anymore, may I throw you overboard to drown so I don’t have to wait the entire return trip to be rid of you? This ME, ME, ME- NOW, NOW, NOW!!! stuff, while abhorrent in general, because unacceptable when you will kill another human being, especially your own child, in order to be instantly gratified.
In a pregnancy, you INVITE a human being into your body for 9 months- You MAKE a human being utterly dependent on you for that long. You can’t take it back on a whim and kill the child just because you change your mind. How selfish and sick a person would you need to be to kill your baby because you decide that you just don’t want to carry her today?
You’ve given an example of where withdrawing would be immoral, not impossible. Withdrawing consent during pregnancy certainly is possible, and if you restrict her right to withdraw that consent, then you ARE forcing her through the pregnancy.
No more than your force me to supervise those girls scouts. No more than you force me to keep you on my boat.
MY BOAT, MY CHOICE!!!
I find it odd though that you find neglect immoral, but not murder.
You can’t give a fetus up NOW for adoption. But what if you could someday? What if technology advanced so far that a fetus could be transplanted into another woman’s womb. Would the mother then have the moral obligation to give that child up for adoption? Would the fetus THEN be a person with rights?
I would venture to say that these women that couldn’t bear the thought of having a child of theirs in the world that they can’t “keep” would still opt to kill the child rather than place her in another womb.
And I would venture to guess that PCG would still support outright killing the child as an option for women because she has no regard for human life and if having a dead baby is easier than a life one, hey, die baby, die. It’s all about the grown women, after all- and enabling them to make choices without consequences, not matter who has to die.
“It’s all about the grown women, after all- and enabling them to make choices without consequences, not matter who has to die.”
That’s the sick ironic thing- PCG has adopted the very mentality of the man who attacked her while claiming we have that mentality.
That’s the sick ironic thing- PCG has adopted the very mentality of the man who attacked her while claiming we have that mentality.
Here’s what I don’t get: Women who got pregnant and do not want to be pregnant merit her compassion. I understand that. They have pro-lifers compassion as well. After all, who is responsible for virtually all aid and support for pregnant women? That’s right: US. All they get from pro-aborts is a dead baby and a wounded womb for hundreds of dollars. But I digress.
So the woman who makes a choice, gets pregnant, and then decides that choice was a mistake, this woman is the object of PCG’s sympathy. Understandable, in that we all make choices and find them later to be mistakes- but here’s where it gets screwy:
This woman gets compassion, and her child, who had no say in the matter, gets shredded into pieces, her whole life and all she has completely stolen from her. And yet the baby gets none of PCG’s sympathy and is instead viewed by her to be the cause of the woman’s grief. So the baby has it coming by virtue living in the womb of a woman who placed her there but decided after-the-fact that she doesn’t want her- that baby is not worthy of compassion. It’s the woman, who had and has options all along, that gets all PCG’s “compassion.”
Pregnant women are worthy of compassion. Pregnancy is tough, and unintended pregnancy is emotionally that much harder. But pitting the 9 months of hardship against the entire life of a baby is not a fair trade-off. Murder is not an acceptable relief for hardship.
The fact that she can look at pictures of murdered babies and still say that relieving a woman of the temporary condition of pregnancy justifies this killing is unfathomable.
Christian Prochoicer’s recent reply to the question of whether or not she was in favor of the death penalty and/or war.
“It doesn’t matter if I support war or the death penalty, because I don’t claim that human beings cannot be killed.”
Does anyone remember Susan Atkins? Or Squeeky Fromme? Redrum.
I’m gonna try to get some sleep now. God Luck for the night terrors. Please pray for me and I will do the same for you all. Thank you Jesus for giving your Life for sinners like me.
If we are pro-rapists and hate women because we oppose abortion, what does that make all the original feminists who detested abortions and called them outright murder and infanticides?