Pro-life vid of day: Mere mention of “pro-life” in Sebelius hearing ticks off congresswoman
by Hans Johnson
During yesterday morning’s testimony before the House Energy and Commerce Committee by HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, Rep. John Shimkus (R-IL) began to ask whether federal exchanges for Obamacare will clearly spell out if policies will include abortion coverage. No sooner did he use the word “pro-life” than a female voice was clearly heard to blurt out: “Oh, here we go!”
A likely candidate was Rep. Anna Eshoo (D-CA). She was close to Shimkus and, being the previous questioner, may not have turned off her microphone.
Here is the question and answer:
[youtube]http://youtu.be/YMfWVXK-bfE[/youtube]
Email dailyvid@jillstanek.com with your video suggestions.
[HT: Mike Gallagher]
Oct.31, 2013 12:00 pm |
Video of the day |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I respect the political process, and how the various sides struggle as each tries to enact its vision of a thriving America and happy Americans. Most of us do not support the ACA, but let us respect those Democrats who genuinely believe that this program will benefit the common good.
But we cannot tolerate this attitude in Washington that dismisses the voters and consumers so easily. “Oh, here we go….” is such a display of disregard and arrogance.
There really is a huge bloc of pro-life voters and consumers. We will not participate in purchasing abortions for the killing of other people’s children. We have made this clear in every debate about every budget, new funding or social program. We want to know which insurance plans cover abortions, so we can avoid them.
Rep. Eshoo, if you are the ejaculator of that remark: Listen to us. We are far more relevant than you realize.
If hearing the word “prolife” sets her off, can you imagine how steamed she is inside when she sees a newborn?
Haters gotta hate.
Eschoo is a staunch supporter of abortion and the use of federal funds for PP:
http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/26741/anna-eshoo (scroll down to ‘issue’ and click to see voting categories).
I sure hope that her constituents will notice..
(she voted against the partial birth/late-term abortion ban ever since it was first introduced in 1995).
We’re here, we’re pro-life, get used to us.
If hearing the word “prolife” sets her off, can you imagine how steamed she is inside when she sees a newborn? – why would she?
Under Obamacare what happens to the people who opt out of their Bronze plan and do not get insurance but then need major medical but can’t afford a policy at the time they get sick? Now that mandatory coverage is the law of the land does that give cover to hospitals who want to deny care to the uninsured?
Obamacare did nothing to lower the cost of health care policies. It subsidizes an already over-priced insurance market which actually has the opposite effect and raises the cost of policies outside of the government exchanges.
” Under Obamacare what happens to the people who opt out of their Bronze plan and do not get insurance but then need major medical but can’t afford a policy at the time they get sick? Now that mandatory coverage is the law of the land does that give cover to hospitals who want to deny care to the uninsured?”
For pete’s sake, this can’t be a real question, you know that EMTLA hasn’t been repealed, so yes the hospitals still have to give life-saving treatment to those who need it.
Hi ts,
Der fuehrer lied when he told the American people we could keep ourpolicies and our doctors. It was his intention from day one to skyrocket insurance costs and destroy the insurance industry, forcing us onto single payer. I’m one of the people who lost a policy, will have to go on another, pay more, and possibly be forced to change eye doctors despite the fact I like the doctor treating me for glaucoma.
In the meantime, our fearless leader hides behind a woman’s skirt, letting her take the fall, while he proclaims his profound ignorance of any and everything going on in his administration. However, he can tell us which hostess on The View was on Dancing With the Stars, and what Kardashian did what.
Jack,
I am no lawyer. It just seemed to me that being in violation of one law could change your eligibility under another. In the past you have stated that you like the idea of people making over $50k being held responsible for buying health insurance. It seems to me all it would take is the bean counters figuring they can save some money and a like-minded HHS Secretary declaring another exemption.
Mary, I am sorry you are having to go through that. Unfortunately even with everything you and millions of other people are going through; the DemocRATs stand together with gang-banger mentality and don’t really give a rats ass about you. To them the end justifies the means; and their end is control over our government. And they convince people to vote for them by preaching a socialist utopia guided by a fairness doctrine of government hand-outs
Reality says:
October 31, 2013 at 6:48 pm
If hearing the word “prolife” sets her off, can you imagine how steamed she is inside when she sees a newborn? – why would she?
Good point, Reality. We can’t presume that pro-aborts are morally consistent. They might celebrate that some people live while they encourage other people to murder. No reason to it.
Thank you ts,
I can at least have the immense satisfaction of seeing some of my Obummer schmoozing co workers having to go through the headache of changing doctors for themselves and family members as well as pay higher insurance. I warned them: “Oh no Mary, it will just provide insurance to those that don’t have it”. Our new policy restricts us to one clinic, and luckily my husband and I are already members. Concerning my eye doctor the policy may well not pay or I may have to get special dispensation from the powers that be. Since this will be lifelong care I don’t want to change doctors and treatment regiman now.
It infuriates me that people still do not see this conniving liar for what he is. Its time we made him own up and act like a man instead of allowing him to hide behind Sebelius’ skirt.
Mary, Sebelius and Obama didn’t find out you were losing your insurance until they saw it on the news. They were walking through the break room in the capital talking about the glitches and saw it on CNN.
Thanks ts,
I believe the news immediately followed Dancing With The Stars, which followed Keeping Up With the Kardashians. Two of Der Fuehrer’s favorite programs.
Hi ts,
Thank you for the lightheartedness. My grandma always said if we didn’t laugh we’d cry, and having raised 2 children as a single mother during the Great Depression, she had to laugh a lot.
For now we can we still laugh any way we want. But have you ever heard the saying that ‘laughter is the best medicine’? If that old saying is true and it is medicine then it may not be long before Obamacare mandates that laughing really hard or snorting while you laugh is deemed illegal and everybody is forced to choose from certain types of laughs that the Democrats deem are best for us.
You appear to be confused about what constitutes moral consistency Del.
I’d still like to know why she would get ‘steamed’ at seeing a newborn just because she’s pro-choice. Seeing a newborn means a choice has been made.
Hi ts,
Indeed, snorting may be bad for the nasal passages and uncontrolled laughter has been known to result in unexpected expulsions that often result in such dreadful embarassment that people have actually claimed they could just die! We definitely need an Obamacare mandate to address this matter before uncontrolled laughter actually results in someone being driven to such desperation.
Reducing babies to “choice” is the equivalent to moral cowardice “reality.” Here’s hoping you understand that…
Real-stupidi-ity says:October 31, 2013 at 10:26 pm “You appear to be confused about what constitutes moral consistency Del.”
Real-stupid-ity,
You have no concept of ’moral’ except what you may wish it to be.
Wave your petite pink fairy wand and pray that your goddess gaia make it so in the non-existent fantasy world of your own vain imaginations.
You give “reality” too much credit Ken. He is is not into pink wands. He prefers a shiny metallic scalpel.
Hey good people. I am anticipating a backlash here for the above comment and so I thought I’d have a had start and qualify what I said:
Shiny metallic scalpels are the instruments used by those that perform abortions. “reality”does not and I realize that – but by fully supporting this barbaric invasive procedure it is not a stretch to assume that seeing the latter conjures familiarity for him.
Feel free to chew my head off…
Reducing babies to “choice” is the equivalent to moral cowardice “reality.” Here’s hoping you understand that… thomas r – well here’s to hoping you come to understand the twisted logic in your statement.
You have no concept of ’moral’ except what you may wish it to be. – same as yours then.
Wave your petite pink fairy wand and pray that your goddess gaia make it so in the non-existent fantasy world of your own vain imaginations. – I don’t have any gods or goddesses kentheburper, you appear to be the fantasy world dweller.
Shiny metallic scalpels are the instruments used by those that perform abortions. – I’ve had scalpels used on me and I’ve never had an abortion! I know the same goes for plenty of others too. So your attempt at insult is rather pathetic really.
“reality”does not and I realize that – but by fully supporting this barbaric invasive procedure (not to be confused with all the other invasive procedures) it is not a stretch to assume that seeing the latter conjures familiarity for him. – it conjures the improving of peoples lives. But I am glad to hear you don’t think RU486 etc. constitute abortion “thomas r.”.
Feel free to chew my head off… – I don’t think that would be particularly nourishing :-)
However, he can tell us which hostess on The View was on Dancing With the Stars, and what Kardashian did what.
and
Wave your petite pink fairy wand and pray that your goddess gaia make it so in the non-existent fantasy world of your own vain imaginations.
I just couldn’t decided so these two gems are tied for first place in my Quote of the Day book! Thanks for the chuckles prolifers! :)
Hi Prax,
So glad you enjoyed.
As my grandma always said………
Ex-RINO, Obamacare is decimating the insurance companies that are being forced to cancel the policies of millions of customer’s who were completely satisfied with their policies. Next week Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson’s will be introducing a bill to protect people like Mary from losing their insurance coverage. Do you support the effort to amend Obamacare so that ‘people who like their plans can keep their plans’?
truth -
Found it – good transfer call. Two things are still lingering though – not just this question:
1) What specific insurance companies have been hit. You’ve said that “Obamacare is decimating the private insurance market. ” What specific insurance carriers are you talking about?
2) On Johnson’s plan – I’d have to see the bill and how would it work. I mean, let’s say that there are 10 people on the plan, and it was a plan that worked hard to keep people with pre-existing conditions off the plan. If that plan is kept alive, does that mean that those with pre-existing conditions can now join? Or if five of the ten people leave the plan, but the other five stay, is Johnson saying that the federal government will order insurance carriers to keep the plan open? Is he suggesting massive regulation of the free market plans to say that they HAVE to continue to offer the plan if a single individual likes that plan? I mean, I like the McRib – do you think a senator should offer a plan that says McDonalds has to carry it year round? Again, over 8 years, which I showed you, about 10 million lost coverage (before health care reform) – so we’re saying that naturally, in the free market, people lose the plans they were in. Are you saying you are now massively against the free market and how that works, and want to guarantee people’s coverage through SPECIFIC plans?
Explain truth – you seem like you are becoming quite the socialist these days – expand medicaid for all – force insurance companies off the free market and into government control… crazy.
Ex-RINO,
We will take these two items one at a time cause you seem to having difficulty comprehending what is posted to you. “Obamacare is decimating the insurance companies that are being forced to cancel the policies of millions of customer’s who were completely satisfied with their policies.” Are you going to pretend like you haven’t heard about the millions of people losing their health insurance coverage? You can Google the names for yourself. I did not want to continue this discussion with you in order to play your coy games of playing dumb and trolling. Either admit that you understand what companies I am talking about or we can stop this conversation here before you waste any more of my time and everybody else’s time.
So what you are saying is you don’t know of a single insurance company that is struggling?
Hey, I gave you the option on the last thread – what’s worse, the million people or whatever that are shifting plans because of reform, or the 10 million that lost insurance all together before reform over an 8 year span.
You then shifted (dodged) by going to this route – that the private insurance companies are being decimated, and talked about their inability to raise rates and such.
So tell me an insurance company that is struggling.
Then we can move onto Ron Johnson’s plan you seem to support and you can answer questions on that.
No more pivoting – either bail on the conversation, or answer direct questions – this isn’t hard.
To say that you LOVE children and long for the day when ALL children are SAFE and then advocate for the deaths of children before they are born via abortion…..well you know the rest.
Ex-RINO,
I know the names. I know you know the names. Why so coy?
Because you said the industry is being decimated – I posted the S&P information on health care stocks, which seemed far from your description.
You made the statement – either back it up, or retract what you said. This isn’t that hard.
And so it begins…
It is being decimated. And right now is just the tip of the iceberg because they granted a one year waiver to businesses so right now it is only effecting the 5% of the insurance market that provides individuals with plans. Next year at this time, by the governments own estimates ninety three million people will lose their employer based health care coverage.
It doesn’t take a visionary to see what is coming. Do you think it doesn’t hurt these divisions of the insurance companies that are losing millions of clients?
JDC – if you know of a different approach, let me know.
Truth said the industry was being decimated. I asked for a single company. He can’t name one, and has now pivoted.
Ignore? Move on?
Ex-RINO, the end-time for your lies and games is rapidly closing in as Obamacare gets implemented. Let me throw a name out there for you since you seem unwilling to admit that any are being adversely effected. Aetna.
Aetna, the third largest insurer in the nation, will not offer insurance on the Obamacare exchange in its own home state (Connecticut), where it was founded in 1850. The reason? “We believe the modification to the rates filed by Aetna will not allow us to collect enough premiums to cover the cost of the plans and meet the service expectations of our customers,” said Aetna spokesman Susan Millerick.
Ex-RINO, you may judge an insurance company’s success by how well it is doing on the S&P 500. What is getting decimated is the insurance companies ability to provide their customers with the quality of care that their customer’s had come to expect. They are not out-of-business yet but they are grudgingly having to let go of their customer base.
Wasn’t the idea of the health care exchanges supposed to be increased competition? People are getting access to fewer choices of provider on the health care exchanges then they had prior to Obamacare.
Oh sorry Ex-RINO, I’ll slow down my posting for you. I know it is hard for you grasp more than one post at a time. Let’s stick with the point about Obamacare mandates decimating insurance companies by forcing therm to change their plans or drop their customers and then we can move on to Ron Johnson’s proposed “If you like your plan you can keep your plan” Obamacare amendment.
In a little over a year, Aetna’s share price has gone from $35 a share to $62 a share. Their GP is 10.8 BILLION.
Are you thinking we should pass the collection plate for them?
And do you feel that almost doubling your share price in a year is a sign of a company in trouble?
Do you see investors running away from Aetna because it looks like they are being decimated?
Ex-RINO, if you are truly not aware of this then I apologize. You may not be finding out because the Obama Administration is pressuring insurance CEO’s to keep quiet about this.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/10/30/cnn-white-house-pressuring-insurance-companies-not-criticize-obamacar
truth – you yourself just said that you don’t want to shift topics until we are done with this one.
Aetna – explain how they are being decimated.
They are losing millions of customer’s throughout the US. Customer’s that they wish they could keep.
truth and EGOP,
Read and discuss.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101164217
Hans. Thanks for the article but we are taking this in small steps one piece at a time. Right now Ex-RINO is still trying to comprehend that millions of people are losing their insurance and that the insurance companies losing these people actually wish they could keep them as customers.
I have to scratch my head when he points fingers that insurance companies are doing well on the Dow. It’s the Dem talking point about company profits and a rising stock market.
Everyone knows that businesses do well when at all possible. They know that it’s paramount to operate efficiently no matter the obstacles, Unlike the government, which is proving they will be miserable stewards of this one-sixth chunk of the economy.
Even so, the profit margins for insurance companies is hardly astronomical. And you say rightly, truth, that their jettisoning of so much of their base will eventually be very problematic for them.
Ex-GOP is on the Left bandwagon, where a nosebleed is “cured” by opening an artery.
It’s worse then that Hans. It is liberalism run amok
Look at how powerful the idea of liberalism can be It drives seemingly sane people to support actions as intrinisically evil as abortion. There are a few exception; Jack for instance; but he is one of the only people I know who buys into the liberal mentality but still is able to wholly and completely reject the killing of unborn children. That shows you how powerful and consuming the ideology can be.
We always knew Obamacare was about government control, not better healthcare. But lately the theory is it’s been more specifically for the same reason as amnesty: growing Democratic voters.
http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/what-if-obamacare-was-never-about-our-health/
Hans,
http://michellemalkin.com/2013/10/17/what-a-coincidence-acorn-founders-organization-serving-as-obamacare-navigators/
The Democratic Party see’s things through those eyes Hans, their goal has always been statist control of our government; but many of the voters are just blind with liberalism.
truth/hans (since you are joining in)
Aetna said a few days ago that their membership was up 22%. 22%!
You just said that they were losing millions of customers.
Are you smarter than their CEO/President?
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1782512-aetna-management-discusses-q3-2013-results-earnings-call-transcript
I’m guessing not.
Does this sound like a company going down the tubes?
“Good morning. Thank you, Tom, and thank you all for joining us today. This morning, Aetna reported third quarter results that included a full quarter of performance from the Coventry acquisition. Bolstered by the acquisition and continued strong performance in our Commercial and Medicaid businesses, Aetna grew medical membership by approximately 22% from the prior year quarter, reaching nearly 22.2 million medical members, grew quarterly operating revenue by 46% from the prior year, with operating revenues reaching approximately $13 billion, and grew quarterly adjusted operating earnings by approximately 11% from the prior year, with adjusted operating earnings of $604 million. Each of these quarterly metrics represents historic highs for our organization and a strong foundation to continue to expand our franchise to best meet the needs of both our customers and our shareholders.”
Hans -
How would you like to measure it? Do you think stock information is a terrible way to measure the health of a company? Have you ever been in business?
If you have a sector that has gone up 32% in a year, don’t you think that’s a good measure they are doing well?
Also, since again, you decided to jump in – making profit on health care is pretty unique to our country. If a friend of yours got cancer, how much profit do you think the world of medicine should make on your friend? You said margins were pretty meager – do you think insurance companies and other health care companies should jack up prices and make higher profits?
Hans/truth
What’s the bigger issue:
1) During the Bush years, about 6 million people under 65 went from having insurance, to being uninsured
2) During health care reform, a couple million people will go from one insurance plan and end up on another.
What do you see as the bigger threat to Americans?
This morning, Aetna reported third quarter results
Ex-RINO, do you realize you posted Aetna’s third quarter results as proof? They just sent the letters out that customer’s will lose their coverage starting January 1st. Compare how many customer’s they have at the end-of-the 3rd quarter to how many they have at the end of the fourth quarter. And the trend will continue and get worse next year when they have to start dropping insurance for employers.
EGV,
What about Der fuehrer’s promise that we can keep our insurance and doctors? Now I’m one of those people that doesn’t quite fit into your comfortable statistics. My co-workers and I received notice that our present employer provided plan, which has not raised costs in 5 years and which provided options that suited individuals, for example, I hardly need maternity care and we choose to pay many of my husband’s diabetic expenses out of pocket and take a tax deduction.
Well guess what, because of ACA, their words not mine, our policy is now (Name of clinic)digits, and we have two choices. Take it or leave it. Its more expensive, requires people to be seen by doctors in this clinic, and covers only certain Zip codes. Fortunately my husband and I are patients of the clinic already but for some of my co-workers, Obama and Obummercare supporters who actually believed the glorious leader, now have to transfer their families, themselves, their records, etc. to the clinic if they want to be covered. That’s assuming the clinic doctors are able and willing to take them. They can only stretch themselves so thin. So much for keeping their doctors. Oh, the gods do indeed punish mortals by answering their prayers!
Anyway, one of my obummercare supporting co-workers has two children who see heart specialists in another city and hopefully she can get a special dispensation to continue seeing them. The new insurance may not cover this otherwise.
I am in lifelong treatment with a doctor of my choosing for glaucoma. I too may need special dispensation to continue seeing him. Since the clinic has a glaucoma specialist, it unlikely will be granted.
Compared to millions, my inconvenience is not as serious.
Do you have a problem with your glorious leader deliberately lying to the American people? Also what do you think of him hiding behind Sebelius’ skirt? High time he act like a man and take some responsibility, don’t you agree?
Oh and ts,
Be careful about controlling you laughter. We know just how damaging and even fatal it can be.
Der fuehrer will be forced to issue another mandate to protect you from nasal passage damage and embarrassing expulsions.
I didn’t complete my sentence in my 7:40PM post.
The plan I had that has not raised costs in 5 years was cancelled and replaced.
truth – Do you think it will result in a loss of 4+ million customers to make them a break even for the year?
Even so, what’s your point? Aren’t you a free market person? I mean, we don’t have as many employees in the railroad industry as we once did. We don’t have as many people making buggies. Many companies go out of business all the time – are you saying that we should mandate profits?
Again, for the 8th time or so, what’s the bigger issue in your mind – the millions that LOST coverage, or the lesser amount that are shifting coverage?
Mary -
Ten years back, before reform, my family was on the private market because my employer’s plan was terrible. Our rates almost doubled in a five year span, and that was while dramatically increasing our deductible.
If you think these shifts are new to these current times, then you have a very short memory.
Mary – and let me remind you – with your dream health care scenario of bartering chickens for services, insurance barely has a place – so how are you mad about insurance plans being swapped?
Furthermore, what would have been worse – different coverage or no coverage?
This ‘outrage’ is a bit odd to me after the years of massive losses of insurance in general, and the GOP not seeming to care. It’s like a ten car pile up where 20 people die, and you guys walk out of it saying “what an outrage, I broke my foot!”
Come on.
EGV, 7:51PM
You’re not addressing any of the issues I raised. Come on, tell us what you think of your beloved leader lying to the American people and hiding behind a woman’s skirt? FYI, I paid plenty out of pocket.
EGV 7:54PM
I should have realized that discussing free market health care was entirely too complicated for you to understand. I’ll try to keep it more simple for you in the future, and use the chicken for services example that helps you better comprehend.
Mary – I didn’t read your whole post – I just skimmed it. Again, when people are resorting to name calling and such, it gets old, and I skip past those posts. You can repost it in a more civilized manner if you’d like me to respond.
Not too complicated to understand – you like health care in the 1930’s, when things weren’t expensive, and people bargained with doctors for services. That might include chickens. That was your plan. If you want to explain it differently, feel free.
EGV,
So now I’ve offended your tender sensibilities? Give me a break.
Again EGV, I’ll try to keep any future discussion of free market health care at the most simplistic level you can understand, which is apparently bartering chickens for service. I honestly thought you could comprehend choice of insurance, out of pocket payments, and health savings accounts, but I stand corrected.
Maybe you just did a horrible job explaining it.
Who else was on the thread that we can ask to sum up your position? Then we’ll know for sure.
Otherwise, my post from 8:10 stands, on both subjects.
Cluck, cluck, cluck…
EGV,
Facing up to the fact Obama is a liar who hides behind a woman’s skirt can’t be easy. I understand your reluctance to address my post.
Cluck, cluck. cluck…
Well, at least the intellectual level of your argument is improving.
No reluctance, just not reading it until you are more respectful. I’m about the only one around here that will answer a direct question – I just feel that we can demand of each other a certain degree of adult behavior. I’ve drawn my line. If you want to rephrase the question, I’m more than willing to answer.
EGV,
As I said I can understand your reluctance to address the fact your glorious leader is a liar who hides behind a woman’s skirt.
I have no intention of showing any respect to such an individual.
If I am wrong about this, kindly show me where.
“I’m about the only one around here that will answer a direct question -”
Mary, I think my nasal passages were just damaged when I read the above quote from Ex-RINO’s post….. how could they have mandated so many important coverages and left out laughter therapy?
Hi ts,
I’m certain that as soon as the dear leader comes out from behind Kathleen’s skirt, he will announce it!
In the meantime please be careful of the dreadfully embarrassing expulsions that can come with uncontrolled laughter. They have been known to cause people to “just die”.
truth -
This thread alone:
11:36 post – I had asked you on the last post about the two situations, which was worse. You’ve never commented
11:36 post – Ron Johnson – I had asked many questions, again, from the thread we just left. You pushed those back.
It took five asks before you named Aetna…
12:35 post – I asked three questions – you never directly answered one of them.
5:44 pm post – I asked you the two scenarios again. Again, you dodge.
7:49 – I ask if you think Aetna is going to lose 4 million customers. Nothing
7:49 post – I ask what your actual issue is – again, nothing
7:49 – again back to the two scenarios – nothing
So let me know what I’ve not answered directly.
Mary, umm, I mean Sue Lowden – you are still on the thread! Hope you have a great evening.
Do you get the Sue Lowden reference? I feel it was witty.
“It took five asks before you named Aetna…”
Ex-RINO, that is because it was so painfully obvious. I clearly stated that I was referring to the ones that were losing the millions of customers. I just threw Aetna out there because you seemed incapable of finding any. You could have picked any of them.
truth – when somebody makes a point in an argument, the burden of proof falls on the person making the point.
And all the other dodges…which you just dodged again?
Fact is, you are just a complainer. You don’t know what you support, you just like to complain about the situations. You’ve at times like Ryan’s plan…at times like the status quo. You’ve thrown out ideas from massively far left progressive ideas (expand medicaid) – you’ve both supported no regulation (and even mini-med plans) and lots of regulation, arguing some plans aren’t quality plans and shouldn’t be allowed.
Do you have any rational idea of what you support? Do you support Ryan, whose plan would result in a heck of a lot more people losing the coverage they like than reform. Do you support the status quo and want to bring back discrimination based on pre-existing conditions? Do you have any actual idea what you support?
Oh, let’s make it easy. Just don’t answer, because you never do, and either say something snarky, or post some odd story from a non-credible “news site”.
Again though – the actual direct question is “Do you have any actual idea what you support?”
Ex-GOP,
You really do emulate the president in being both thin-skinned and condescending.
I’ll take a dreamy comment about bartering with chickens once again from Sue Louden over hundreds of Harry Reid statements. The country would have been much better off if she had beaten him.
“Truth – when somebody makes a point in an argument, the burden of proof falls on the person making the point.”
I wasn’t in an argument I was just having a discussion and the ‘proof’ you were asking for was so painstakingly easy to present that your insistence on my supplying a specific name bordered on trolling. Over and over I told you I was talking about the insurance companies who were losing the millions of customers and a specific name of any one of them was not relevant to my making my point…but I did present one and a quote from them and a news article that shows the Obama administration making phone calls to demand their silence.
The Obama administration has a checkered history of intimidation and using the power of the presidency to attack people who disagree with them. The IRS to go after the TEa Party, the EPA to go after Gibson guitars, etc. etc. Do you deny this?
Ex-RINO,
You get all twisted up in details because you lack principles to guide you. We had a system where 85% of the people were happy with the care they had. I think we should find ways to help the other 15%; especially the ones that are not scamming the system; but we don’t need to wreck the system for the 85% in order to solve the problems of the 15% (the poor or those kicked off plans with pre-existing conditions etc. Like Hans said with her analogy earlier, Obamacare is like trying to stop a nose-bleed by cutting an artery.
truth -
I”m not sure why I’m wasting my time because it’s clear that 1, you have a short memory…2, you don’t understand the complexities of health care…and 3, you don’t know what you support.
So my hope is that others are reading this that do understand these things.
First, your statement about 85% of people happy with the system is laughable. Flash back to 2008/2009, before reform. Employer sponsored insurance had dropped to the lowest level ever, and had shed 6.9 million people in a decade. The total number of uninsured was up to 46 million, the highest ever, and was growing. Family and single premium rate increases were above 10%, PER YEAR, from 2000 to 2004 and high single digits the next five years. To say that people were “happy” is insane. I saw Tommy Thompson speak in 2009- he’s a pretty smart guy on health care – and he argued about how reform was needed. He didn’t agree with everything being talked about, but he would have found the statement regarding people being “happy” with it – would have found it laughable.
Now, with your lack of understanding on health care, it is understandable that you think that you can just “fix” parts of the system without touching other parts. It doesn’t make sense – and let me try to explain that to you as well (even though there’s been countless articles and breakdowns on this over the last 5 years). The medical industry is being dragged down by uncompensated care, which rolls to those insured through big premium increases, like I just talked about in paragraph one. If you simply forced companies to take on those with pre-existing conditions but didn’t have a mandate for others to have insurance, people could literally wait until they found out they had an issue, then sign up for coverage, and you’d end up with pools of only sick people, and no healthy people to spread the costs too. If I need to get into insurance 101, let me know – but the key of an insurance pool is spreading the costs around. So to think that you could just fix the uninsured without touching others is problematic. Furthermore, it’s YOUR party that got in the way of a lot of that. Look at Jack – the easy and quick increase in medicaid limits would have helped him. Florida republicans said ‘no’. Look at our state of Wisconsin – Scott Walker rejected medicaid and is forcing more people onto the health care exchange. Even you argued for the simpler approach that your party is rejecting.
But I’ll end with this – again, the laughable component of what you argue. You’ve previously argued for Paul Ryan’s plan and other conservative plans. The key in almost every conservative plan I’ve seen is ending the special tax treatment of employer based health plan by turning that tax credit over to the individual. The theory goes that employers would then dump their plans, and the competition would then move to the individual market where completion through exchanges would drive down prices. So you hate people having their coverage changed, and you have actively supported plans that would upset even more people’s coverage through dumping of employer coverage. So do you still support Ryan and conservative plans? Did you even know those were aspects of what you support?
Those last two are direct questions…dodge away…
Hans -
And you are a reflection of my least favorite political trait- the inability to answer a question.
Again, I didn’t beg for you to jump in – you made that choice.
So I asked you about five follow-up questions. Did you want to answer those, or simply acknowledge you wanted to do a drive by with no actual contribution to this conversation?
No EGV,
I didn’t get your witlessness since you are the only person I have ever heard make reference to chickens time and again and I have no idea who Sue Lowden is.
Sue Lowden:
“You know, before we all started having health care, in the olden days, our grandparents, they would bring a chicken to the doctor. They would say I’ll paint your house…. In the old days that’s what people would do to get health care with their doctors. Doctors are very sympathetic people. I’m not backing down from that system.”
So that was the source of your witlessness?
Thank you.
BTW, do you have any idea when our fearless leader plans to come out from behind Kathleen’s skirt and take responsibility of his administration’s website screw-ups and the lie he told the American people about keeping their insurance and doctor?
It seems like the director of HHS would be in charge of implementing the health care exchanges. Why wouldn’t she take responsibility? She was tasked with that.
No idea on the “you can keep your insurance”. He sort of altered his statement in a speech recently – but no plans beyond that.
“To do you still support Ryan and conservative plans? Did you even know those were aspects of what you support?”
Ex-RINO, Does the word ‘unsustainable’ mean anything to you? Obamacare is taking an unsustainable system and doubling down by throwing money and subsidies to it. The train wreck is coming. If Wisconsin had voted voted to expand Medicaid our state would be insolvent in short order. Our federal government, run by the likes of fiscal liberals like you, can just keep printing money. That works for a while but steals from the prosperity of future generations. States like Wisconsin on the other hand; have balanced budget amendments and they cannot print money. I will link you to a discussion between Charles Krauthammer and Jon Stewart. Maybe you will open your mind to listen to them and see the folly of your ways. Let me know if it changes your view at all or if you even understand/agree with what Krauthammer is saying:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-23-2013/exclusive—charles-krauthammer-extended-interview-pt–1
EGOP,
About the only question I remember you directing to me is whether or not gains in stocks weren’t a good sign for insurance companies. Well, of course they are. If a company is running it’s business well, more people will invest in them.
The typical Leftist attitude is to shake a fist at those doing well. A lot of us are more concerned with making the rest of us as successful. You don’t do that by attempting to put a stranglehood on the free market.
This is not a “healthcare” debate. It is a “healthcare affordability” debate. And the government is trying to squeeze the competition like the Mob did on the street. Everyone suspects and you fervantly hope that Obamacare is an attempt to pave the way for a single-payer monopoly run by the government.
“Affordability” is sliding worse than it did in the Bush years you so decry. Costs are skyrocketing. Doctors are leaving in droves. The young people who didn’t feel the need for insurance are still sitting back to take the fine.
All this was not the number one concern of America until Obama made it so in 2008. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Sure, we’ve always talked of tinkering with it, but an overhaul was the Democrat version of tilting at windmills.
truth is right (except for calling me a girl). Most were satisfied with their coverage, by and large. I’ve said it before, we should have been plugging the holes in the lifeboat rather than swamping it with good swimmers (the young).
Insult away. You’re the numbers guy. But Obama is surrounded by them, like a Treasury Secretary who couldn’t pay his taxes. I just worry about all the road signs saying “Accident Ahead”.
Truth -
So I just want to be clear:
– You do support Ryan’s plan
– You think the medicaid expansion was a bad idea, and Wisconsin specifically, it would have cost a lot of money in the short run
Is that correct or incorrect?
Hans – you actually can scroll up and see a whole post directed at you and truth, but whatever.
Your statements are largely nonsense and rewriting history. I laid out to truth some of the realities of pre-reform:
“First, your statement about 85% of people happy with the system is laughable. Flash back to 2008/2009, before reform. Employer sponsored insurance had dropped to the lowest level ever, and had shed 6.9 million people in a decade. The total number of uninsured was up to 46 million, the highest ever, and was growing. Family and single premium rate increases were above 10%, PER YEAR, from 2000 to 2004 and high single digits the next five years. To say that people were “happy” is insane. I saw Tommy Thompson speak in 2009- he’s a pretty smart guy on health care – and he argued about how reform was needed. He didn’t agree with everything being talked about, but he would have found the statement regarding people being “happy” with it – would have found it laughable.”
For you to say that wasn’t broke – are you serious?
And do you have ANY information to back up ANY of your claims? Doctors leaving in droves? Seriously? The company I work with works with doctors all over the country. We have not seen them “leaving in droves” Back it up.
Costs are skyrocketing? Have we seen costs go up to a greater extent than what we saw pre-reform? Again, back it up.
Again (and again, and again, and again) – the conservative “dream” for health care is to end the favorable tax treatment of employer plans, driving people to the individual market, and forcing more competition through exchanges.
Are you Hans, ready to say that you reject that traditional conservative thinking because most people have “liked” their insurance and that would cause too much switching?
I read your post again, and was not moved. You must have MSNBC as your primary news source if you haven’t heard of doctors planning on early retirement and students opting against medical school.
Rage all you want about the inadequacies of conservative alternatives. This here is a looming disaster. The squeeze is already on.
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/obamacare-regulations-stated-93-million-americans-would-lose-health-plans/
Is that seriously your news source? Are you serious?
Again, the invitation exists for you actually back up a single claim that you have, and actually grow a pair and spell out what you support.
Odd that many Leftist publications run by Leftist Jews are perfectly acceptable.
But one headed by a Conservative Jew isn’t a serious source. Horowitz knows the Left. He grew up in it.
EGV,
Since you consider Hans’ source invalid then we can expect a source from you that counters his?
Thanks for the correction Hans.
Ex-RINO, did you watch the Charles Krauthammer/Jon Stewart link I posted for you? Do you understand how the world has changed and why the old entitlement system is unsustainable and needs to be set on a new cost trajectory?
Fine Hans – let’s break down your article, which comes from a Forbes article.
The numbers they start with are 50% of plans. This is a knowingly false number – Kaiser has actually crunched the numbers and has it much lower – see here: http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2012/december/17/grandfathered-plans-faq.aspx
Roy is playing tricks with the words – Employer plans do not “lose” the status of being grandfathered. This only happens as plans are altered and new plans are developed. So he takes the numbers of 50%, which is wrong, and then takes the whole number, which is wrong.
Furthermore, anybody who supports Ryan or traditional conservative plans SUPPORT the near elimination of employer based coverage. Ryan wants to end the favorable treatment of employer based health care so those folks are turned over to exchanges.
Direct question Hans – do you support Ryan’s plan? If so, how can you raise any sort of issue at all with plans being cancelled while supporting a plan that wants to cancel the majority of existing insurance plans?
Truth - So I just want to be clear: – You do support Ryan’s plan – You think the medicaid expansion was a bad idea, and Wisconsin specifically, it would have cost a lot of money in the short run Is that correct or incorrect?
I support the guiding principle behind Ryan’s plan of putting our nation on a trajectory to financial solvency by changing the entitlement structure to one where the individual is in greater control of a personal savings account.
I am open to Medicaid expansion but not through federal dictated fiat.
Now answer my question. Did you watch the Krauthammer/Stewart link
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-23-2013/exclusive—charles-krauthammer-extended-interview-pt–1
and do you agree with the Krauthammer’s insight as to how the world has changed and why the old entitlement system is unsustainable and needs to be set on a new cost trajectory?
Regarding your November 1, 2013 at 7:10 pm response “reality:”
You have as a requisite to your belief structure, a thick skin. I know it is a must when one so lightly relates to the biggest dilemma that faces our humanity.
Improving women’s lives by subjecting them to unnecessary “procedure” with the use of a scalpel or chemical agents? the things you say…
Moral cowardice because the ethical thing to do would be to carry this child to term and then secure adoption. There is nothing moral about doing things for one’s convenience. Read up on transcendence…
One tends to develop a thick skin “thomas r.”, when one is subject to the self-appointed pious propagandizing of the self-righteous. How’s yours?
No, the biggest dilemmas facing humanity are things such as lack of disease prevention in developing countries, internecine wars, unnecessary starvation and climate and environmental damage.
I’ve got some bad news for you – many, many women do consider it a necessary procedure.
There is no moral cowardice, not even on your behalf. Although I find enforced gestation, including that which potentially puts women at risk, to be less than savoury.
I tend to only read non-fiction nowadays “thomas r.”, you know, factual information, science etc.
truth -
I owe you the video watch and comments – we have people coming over for the game tonight, so it will have to be tomorrow.
One question though to finalize on Ryan – just want to be clear – so you support turning medicare over to an obamacare like structure – give senior citizens vouchers to shop on exchanges. That was the focus of Ryan’s plan regarding entitlement stuff (which you mentioned) – so you support that?
“No, the biggest dilemmas facing humanity are things such as lack of disease prevention in developing countries, internecine wars, unnecessary starvation and climate and environmental damage.”
You are obviously misinformed with all that non-fiction reading “reality:”
1. WHO (World Health Organization) has been organizing humanitarian and medical aid for years. Tis organization’s resources are vast and continually address disease prevention in developing countries. The US alone contributes billions annully to the UN (and therefore WHO) (in 2007 the separate dollar amount from that just for WHO was over a million):
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/316577/how-much-does-un-cost-us-brett-d-schaefer
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104764.html
2. Internecine wars: are you referring to the war proaborts have staged on the preborn for number of decades now?
3. Unnecessary starvation: in the US it is not since there is ample access to support services and as far as the rest of the world, refer to point one above.
4. Climate and environment: by the time continental plates drift to completely rearrange the world map and environmental influence, I think we have about another few million years to go.
But abortion causes the biggest dilemma as it depopulates the planet from our species.
You are obviously less than adequately informed with your mix of fiction and non-fiction reading “thomas r.”
1. Yes they have, along with many other public and private organisations. Are you telling me that disease and starvation are no longer occuring? Isn’t that wonderful!
2. Claims of any war on the pre-born is nothing more than baseless histrionics (oh, and by the way, abortion has been around for much longer than some decades). Do you watch or read the news? Have you not seen the conflicts raging within and between nations which have significant impacts on the civilians? Syria perhaps? Horn of Africa nations?
3. The US is not the world. As for the rest of the world, refer to point one above.
4. Well that’s just jolly dandy, the plates shifting. What about temperature change? Rainfall pattern changes? The prevalence of severe storms? Degradation of soils and forests? Loss of species?
What would I do without you “thomas r.”? Here I was believing everything I’ve heard all my life about the population continuing to increase! How many fewer than ten years ago are we currently sitting at? You could apply either total world population or just the US, whichever you wish :-)
(from our species?)
truth -
I fundamentally agree with a lot of what Krauthammer said – not everything, but he does make a few good points. I’d also say that:
– You seem more of a Ted Cruz republican than a Paul Ryan republican, and Krauthammer seems to think Cruz is a bit of an idiot.
– You don’t argue on Obamacare regarding alternatives and how to attack them – like medicare (did you take it to mean he thought medicare should be expanded to cover the uninsured – I missed that part) – you argue against Obamacare by bringing up points that you support if you support Ryan’s plan. For instance, you have whined about people losing their health care, where Ryan’s plan would result in far more people losing their care than will lose their care under health care reform. Far, far more people.