Eyewitness: Tiller abortionist Shelley Sella stabbed live baby to death
During an interview about her place of work, former George Tiller employee Tina Davis described an alleged murder to Operation Rescue’s Troy Newman and Cheryl Sullenger that was committed at the infamous late-term abortionist’s mill by hired hand Shelley Sella.
Click here to hear the 1:38 audiotape. Read the transcript here. An excerpt:
Davis: And this was…hmmm, maybe 35 weeks?… It was – it was a big baby…. And… baby came out, and it was moving. I don’t know if it was alive or if it was nerves…I don’t – I have no clue…. Then Dr. Sella looked up right away at me and took a utensil and stabbed it – right here – [indicating left rib section] and twisted, and then it didn’t move anymore.
35 weeks. According to OR, Seller is a “‘circuit rider’ who splits her time between Tiller’s clinic, a CA Planned Parenthood clinic, and other smaller abortion mills.”
One other tidbit from that interview I didn’t know but makes perfect sense:
Davis: And there was a couple of times where we did the injection and then they went home.
Newman: What happened then?
Sullenger: When they went home?
Davis: They would go home to their own doctor.
Sullenger: Oh, I see. And then he would do, like, a still-born delivery? Okay. I understand that. Okay.
Davis: Yeah. I think that happened about four times.
Tiller usually injects a late-term preborn baby’s heart with a heart-stopping drug before aborting. What this tells us is some mothers have Tiller kill their baby and then go home and pretend like their baby died en utero naturally. Then their own ob/gyn initiates labor and the mothers illicit sympathy not questions or rejections. What a burden to bear.
OR has reported the stabbing incident to the Wichita Police and the Kansas State Board of Healing Arts.
Look for nothing to come of it.
[Photo courtesy of OR]

“OR has reported the stabbing incident to the Wichita Police and the Kansas State Board of Healing Arts.
Look for nothing to come of it.”
Well, Jill… lets be fair. That’s second hand hearsay. Thats the exact same thing as me telling my friend Jill Stanek killed a baby, and my friend calling the cops years later to report it. If there is ZERO evidence to back it up, nothing CAN come of it. Thats just not how our legal system functions. I’m not saying thats not horrible and disturbing if its true, but if our legal system pursued every single unsubstantiated bit of hearsay, we’d have a LOT of innocent people in court.
However, Amanda, IF it were not involving abortion, something would be done about it. It would be required by law for the police to investigate whether a homicide has occurred. Of course, a dead baby from abortion is NOT a homicide – it’s simply a dead baby.
Maybe that’s the difference.
And SoMG says abortionist are not treated differently from other doctors. Really?
OR would have been better off sending this woman straight to the police. Who I certainly hope don’t spend too much time on this.
Good Point Patricia.
Amanda,
Don’t you have any remorse for these babies who are killed?
The sickest thing about this is that what she allegedly did is no sicker than what Tiller does every day, legally.
Tiller usually injects a late-term preborn baby’s heart with a heart-stopping drug before aborting. What this tells us is some mothers have Tiller kill their baby and then go home and pretend like their baby died en utero naturally. Then their own ob/gyn initiates labor and the mothers illicit sympathy not questions or rejections. What a burden to bear.
Wow, that is just despicable.
“The sickest thing about this is that what she allegedly did is no sicker than what Tiller does every day, legally.”
Thats true Bethany, the only difference is the location of the baby.
Jill neglected to mention that Cheryl Sullenger is a convicted felon, who was sentenced to 2 1/2 years in 1988 after pleading gulity to conspiracy to bomb a clinic in San Diego.
This might lead the authorities to question her credibility as an informant.
I love how the article says “Live” infant stabbed to death. As if a dead infant can be stabbed to death : / Sad though, the baby should have been brought to a hospital straight away and given the help it needs.
I wonder what the personal effect is on the psyche of those that do these brutal killings on a frequent basis??
Oh wait…I already know…they reason like SoMG…
Someone realllly stupid is going to ask me why I think that baby should have been taken to the hospital. So I’m going to save that realllly stupid person the shame of having to ask such a stupid question: abortion is meant to end a pregnancy, not kill babies. Unfortunately abortion usually ends up ending the babies life, but the only aim of an abortion should be to end a pregnancy, once the pregnancy is ended the baby is a separate person, not reliant on the mothers body.
Um, Jess, if you’re not pregnant, there’s NO baby. If you are pregnant, there is a baby. It could be baby puppies, baby kittens, or a human baby.
Of course in abortion industry, if the pregnancy is wanted, its a baby. If its not wanted, its thrown away like a piece of tissue and dehumanized and referred to as a ‘fetus’. We’re talking a baby born alive during an abortion – a LATE TERM abortion, when babies born that early in natural settings have a great survival rate. Unless you’re not wanted. :(
Cheryl Sullenger is an INTERESTING woman:
“After Troy Newman left California to make a presence in Wichita to rouse the failing anti-abortion movement (which he utterly failed to do) Cheryl Sullenger was left to maintain the California branch. Deciding that she was totally incompetent to be a leader with an incompetent staff which included Army of God member Robert Ferguson she moved to Wichita to remain a subordinate to Troy.
Sullenger
“Unfortunately abortion usually ends up ending the babies life, but the only aim of an abortion should be to end a pregnancy”
BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BSBS BS BS BS BSBS BS BS BS BSBS BS BS BS BS
Unfortunately abortion usually ends up ending the babies life, but the only aim of an abortion should be to end a pregnancy
It must be really confusing to be inside your head, Jess. This reasoning is so backwards and defies any sort of logic, but I guess that’s how you get through the day. How can the only aim of abortion be to end a pregnancy when the ONLY REASON YOU ARE PREGNANT or can be defined AS pregnant is because you have A UNBORN HUMAN BEING INSIDE YOU.
(Caps for emphasis, not yelling!)
Let us pray for the conversion of Tiller, Sella, and all abortionists.
Jess,
Your own answer to your own statement makes zero sense which made zero sense. Are you the reallly stupid person for thinking of the question you asked yourself? I can say no more.
Speechless.
Laura,
Again, why are you here?
Same old act. Never gets any better.
Liz, are you implying I support killing babies that survive abortion? If you are you’re a liar.
Sandy, what doesn’t make sense? If the baby is not in the woman’s uterus, it cannot be aborted. I support abortion, not randomly going around stabbing babies in cribs. How do you come up with this?
Lord, you command me to love people that kill innocent children. You command me to pray for them.
Lord, this is difficult for me. Please forgive me. Lord, I want them to see the wickedness in their hearts that allows them to kill your innocent children, and that without any tinge of conscience for doing it.
Lord, Mr. Tiller and Ms. Sella are utterly lost. Lord, apart from a relationship with you and apart from repenting of the utter evil they practice on a daily basis, they are without hope. Lord, they do not realize that if they die unexpectedley, where they would end up. Lord, arise and waken them from their self-induced stupor.
Strengthen me God to do your will. Stregthen me to pray from them and their salvation.
Lord, please end legalized abortion in the US and around the world.
Lord, show this country your power and might.
I ask this in the name of Jesus Christ.
Japer @ 5:06pm, excuse me? Are you saying it’s BS that babies don’t die from abortions? Why did you just post a comment where you write BS over and over again? Do you even know what in my post you’re upset about?
HisMan, what was the point of that? Doesn’t the Bible tell us to pray in silence? If we are fasting we should not promote the fact we are fasting so people won’t look at us and admire us for it. God is the only one who needs to know that we pray and he will not reward us in Heaven if we are rewarded on Earth.
“How can the only aim of abortion be to end a pregnancy when the ONLY REASON YOU ARE PREGNANT or can be defined AS pregnant is because you have A UNBORN HUMAN BEING INSIDE YOU.”
You won’t be pregnant if you have an abortion, because you won’t have a baby in you anymore. At some point in every pregnancy, it ends and you aren’t pregnant anymore. Usually when the baby is born. Sometimes it ends in abortion. Sorry, what don’t you get? I’ll try to explain it better.
And I don’t have to make sense, I’m a liberal.
=D
“How can the only aim of abortion be to end a pregnancy when the ONLY REASON YOU ARE PREGNANT or can be defined AS pregnant is because you have A UNBORN HUMAN BEING INSIDE YOU.”
You won’t be pregnant if you have an abortion, because you won’t have a baby in you anymore. At some point in every pregnancy, it ends and you aren’t pregnant anymore. Usually when the baby is born. Sometimes it ends in abortion. Sorry, what don’t you get? I’ll try to explain it better.
And I don’t have to make sense, I’m a liberal.
=D
Sorry I keep double posting today, I’m finger happy : /
You won’t be pregnant if you have an abortion, because you won’t have a baby in you anymore.
Jess, where does the baby go?
Jess,
“abortion is meant to end a pregnancy, not kill babies.”
in a third trimester abortion, a woman still has to go through labor and delivery even after the baby is killed. If the point of abortion is to end the pregnancy and not kill the baby, then labor should be induced without taking the added step of killing the baby.
Hisman, Thank you for your beautiful prayer!
Jess: 5:45:HisMan, what was the point of that? Doesn’t the Bible tell us to pray in silence? If we are fasting we should not promote the fact we are fasting so people won’t look at us and admire us for it. God is the only one who needs to know that we pray and he will not reward us in Heaven if we are rewarded on Earth.
WHAT???? Can’t wait to hear Hisman’s response to that!
Third trimester abortions are illegal except for health risks to the mother.
“If the point of abortion is to end the pregnancy and not kill the baby, then labor should be induced without taking the added step of killing the baby.”
I don’t like the idea of those kinds of abortions, I think all abortions should be induced, unless of course the mothers life is at risk.
Okay, reason with me here.
If the mother’s life is in danger, then should the baby be removed as quickly as possible? Why would you take the added time to kill the baby first? Induce or perfom a c-section and get that child out as soon as possible for the safety of the mother!
Are you the same Elizabeth who sent me a bumper sticker? In that case, then the doctors should do a c-section.
I’m not the same Elizabeth, I’m the one who was here breifly and then went away because I was getting hypertensive at the end of my pregnancy. I had a beautiful baby girl, Sarah Hope.
Okay, so we have extablished that if the mother’s health is in danger in the third trimester, then the baby should be born by c-section as quickly as possible.
We have established that in third trimester abortions the mother generally has to go through Labor and Delivery anyway after the baby is killed.
Then if a women wants to “evict” the contents of her womb, she could simply have labor induced without taking the added step of killing the baby first.
Obviously then, third trimester abortions are meant to kill the child and not simply end the pregnancy.
Elizabeth, I don’t perform abortions, I don’t deliver babies, I’m not a doctor. I can only give you my opinions.
I’m not the same Elizabeth, I’m the one who was here breifly and then went away because I was getting hypertensive at the end of my pregnancy. I had a beautiful baby girl, Sarah Hope.
Welcome back Elizabeth G! Congratulations on your new baby girl! Beautiful name!
Oh Elizabeth G, congrats! Praise the Lord for you little bundle of joy!
Oh BTW, Jasper (or I suppose anyone else who may know), do you live near Plymouth, MA and/or happen to know any good Catholic churches in the area?
Hm, what’s your definition of a “good” Catholic Church? Lol : ) Are you going to be in Plymouth MA? I live about 30mins from there. I could recommend a few good restaurants or beaches
Jess,
I am simply trying to discuss your stated opinion that “abortion is meant to end a pregnancy, not kill babies.”
Alright, abortion SHOULD be meant to end pregnancy not kill a baby.
Maybe you want to call it a baby, or maybe you do not, but abortion is intended to end the pregnancy.
“Jill neglected to mention that Cheryl Sullenger is a convicted felon, who was sentenced to 2 1/2 years in 1988 after pleading gulity to conspiracy to bomb a clinic in San Diego.”
LOL Sullenger lives with Elvis (yes, he’s still alive!) and regularly communicates with space aliens.
Okay Jess, but in reality, how can that be true in the third trimester considering the reasons I listed above?
Congrats Elizabeth G on your new baby!
”
Hm, what’s your definition of a “good” Catholic Church? Lol”
Hehe. Faithful to the magesterium.
But yeah Jess, I’ll be there on Saturday afternoon for a family reunion on the wife’s side and then I’m flying out of Logan in the morning for Halifax. I need to find mass for Saturday evening, hopefully one that doesn’t begin by saying “In the name of the Creator, the Redeemer, and of the Sanctifier”, hehe…
Terry G., am I the only one who disliked everything about Elvis?
Elvis doesn’t do much for me either, Jess.
You won’t be pregnant if you have an abortion, because you won’t have a baby in you anymore. At some point in every pregnancy, it ends and you aren’t pregnant anymore. Usually when the baby is born. Sometimes it ends in abortion. Sorry, what don’t you get? I’ll try to explain it better.
Okay, this statement is apples and oranges. Two different concepts. The first ends with the death of the baby, and the second one ends when the baby is alive. (if it survives birth of course) Are you really looking at them as the same thing or something? One ends in death, one ends in life, so abortion ALWAYS ends in death so NO, the ONLY aim of abortion is NOT to end a pregnancy, it’s TO KILL A BABY. Say it over and over to yourself, Jess, so this point can be absorbed okay?
If the whole point of abortion were simply to not be pregnant anymore, I don’t think it would be so controversial, but really, it’s to kill a baby that one does not want to take care of. Seriously, call it what it is…be honest.
“Oh BTW, Jasper (or I suppose anyone else who may know), do you live near Plymouth, MA and/or happen to know any good Catholic churches in the area?”
Hi Bobby,
No, I’m North of Boston on the New Hamshire border.
Plymouth is on the south shore area
Congratulations Elizabeth on the new baby!! :)
Well Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma), why are condoms so controversial? They don’t kill babies either.
Bobby; are you going to Halifax NS?
Bobby, These two churches both have Adoration and many masses. Good luck!
http://www.masstimes.org
94 visits
St. Mary (508) 746-0426 Web Map Updated: 8/15/2007
Sat: 5 PM Sun: 7:30, 9, 10:30 AM ; Monday thru Fri: 7:30 AM Sat: 8 AM Mon: 7 PM [Brazilian] ; Holy Day: (Call) ; Adoration: 1st Sat: 8 AM to 4 PM ; Address: 313 Court St. Plymouth MA 02360-4336 US
144 visits
St. Peter (508) 746-0663 Web Map Updated: 8/8/2007
Sat: 4, 5:30 PM Sun: 7:30, 9, 10:30 AM ; 12 noon ; Monday thru Sat: 9 AM ; Holy Day: (Call) ; Adoration: 1st Fri: After 9 AM Mass to 12:00 PM ; Address: 86 Court Street Plymouth MA 02360-3840 US
“Bobby; are you going to Halifax NS?”
Oh yeah! All next week at Dalhousie for a math conference… I’m cool like that.
Cool, thanks Janet. That’s a good idea to see which churches have adoration; chances are they’re good if the have it. God love you.
Janet,
are from Mass?
If the whole point of abortion were simply to not be pregnant anymore, I don’t think it would be so controversial, but really, it’s to kill a baby that one does not want to take care of. Seriously, call it what it is…be honest.
Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma) at June 24, 2008 7:59 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nope. Most women have the abortion done long before there’s any baby to take care of. They just don’t want to be pregnant.
Even women in your situation who don’t want to work, have no real responsibilites and can put a baby up for adoption have abortions because they simply don’t want to be pregnant.
Janet, are from Mass?
Posted by: Jasper at June 24, 2008 8:48 PM
As in (Plymouth,) Massachusetts? Yes. Check out the addresses listed.
Nope. Most women have the abortion done long before there’s any baby to take care of. They just don’t want to be pregnant.
Even women in your situation who don’t want to work, have no real responsibilites and can put a baby up for adoption have abortions because they simply don’t want to be pregnant.
Laura, Don’t be mean, and why do you stick up for selfish women who ignore the developing baby and abort simply because they “don’t want to be pregnant”? How sad is that? ***Especially*** because there are women who want to adopt.
either way Laura, whether they don’t want to be pregnant or don’t want their baby. They are still killing a baby. You can’t hide from that fact Laura. See what the power hungry feminists have given us? death and destruction of the most innocent among us.
Nope. Most women have the abortion done long before there’s any baby to take care of. They just don’t want to be pregnant.
Even women in your situation who don’t want to work, have no real responsibilites and can put a baby up for adoption have abortions because they simply don’t want to be pregnant.
Laura, Don’t be mean, and why do you stick up for selfish women who ignore the developing baby and abort simply because they “don’t want to be pregnant”? How sad is that? ***Especially*** because there are women who want to adopt.
Posted by: Janet at June 24, 2008 9:19 PM
………………….
Will women that ‘want’ to adopt die without doing so? Of course not. And if they would die, wouldn’t wishing to not die be a selfish desire?
To the original topic at hand: What. The. Fark?
yea, pretty disgusting huh Rae? I believe Tina Davis, she has no reason to lie about something like this.
Jess,
…..and health risks to the mother are relative and undefined. A woman could have a hang nail or stub her toe and the abortionist could deem that worthy of killing her child.
People have testified under oath that late term abortions are performed ALL THE TIME on healthy babies and healthy mothers.
Anon: 9:33: (NAME – Jess? Laura?)
Note* The first two paragraphs of your post attributed to me are Laura’s words not mine.
Will women that ‘want’ to adopt die without doing so? Of course not. And if they would die, wouldn’t wishing to not die be a selfish desire?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 24, 2008 9:33 PM
There are a lot of selfish things that have nothing to do with abortion. Your point is one of them.
Even women in your situation who don’t want to work, have no real responsibilites and can put a baby up for adoption have abortions because they simply don’t want to be pregnant.
Why don’t they want to be pregnant? Cause they don’t want a baby. I would venture to say (and this is just my opinion here) that the vast majority of women who want babies WANT to be pregnant as well. The majority of women who don’t want to be pregnant don’t want to have a baby. I’m sorry, but there’s no getting around it here, they don’t want to be pregnant cause they don’t want the baby. You wouldn’t just end the pregnancy and say “Here’s the baby, maam, don’t worry, you don’t have to be pregnant anymore” and they would just say “Great!” It’s about wanting to get rid of the baby. I was disputing Jess’s assertion that the ONLY goal of an abortion is to not be pregnant anymore. It’s a 2 for 1 deal here, you can’t have one without the other.
Granted, there may be some women who don’t want to be pregnant because of what pregnancy does to their body or whatever, but I think those are not as common as what I stated above.
either way Laura, whether they don’t want to be pregnant or don’t want their baby. They are still killing a baby. You can’t hide from that fact Laura. See what the power hungry feminists have given us? death and destruction of the most innocent among us.
Posted by: Jasper at June 24, 2008 9:23 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) Killing babies is illegal in this country.
2) Power-hungry feminists? Do you mean THESE power-hungry feminists?:
The Roe Court:
Burger, C.J.(Nixon’69), Douglas (Roosevelt’39), Brennan (Eisenhower’56), Stewart (Eisenhower’58), White (Kennedy’62), Marshall (Johnson’67), Blackmun (Nixon’70), Powell (Nixon’71), Rehnquist (Nixon’71).
@Jasper: Yep. I don’t know what to think, but if the story is true it’s pretty damn disturbing. Seriously- it really, REALLY makes me wonder if people even have consciences anymore. :-/
“If there is ZERO evidence to back it up, nothing CAN come of it. Thats just not how our legal system functions.”
We no longer have a justice system, it is just-a-system. Have you forgotten Jill’s personal story and what evidence she uncovered, and countless others like her? Our society, the Christian Church, and the government no longer operates from what’s right and wrong. Elected representatives, and judges legislating from the bench, have decided that whatever makes the most sense and money to them in controlling the population will be the rule of law, and the voice of the citizens be damned.
1) Killing babies is illegal in this country.
2) Power-hungry feminists? Do you mean THESE power-hungry feminists?:
The Roe Court:
Burger, C.J.(Nixon’69), Douglas (Roosevelt’39), Brennan (Eisenhower’56), Stewart (Eisenhower’58), White (Kennedy’62), Marshall (Johnson’67), Blackmun (Nixon’70), Powell (Nixon’71), Rehnquist (Nixon’71).
Way to go Laura! My hope is for 10,000 x 10 to read your quote. We have been duped by Republicrats long enough. They are all the same on a human being’s right to life. Add John Roberts (GW Bush’00) and Sam Alito (GW Bush’00) to your list.
Jess: What kind of drugs did you take in your formative years that made you completely icapable of logical thought?
Your statements defy any sort of logic.
PLEASE have your tubes tied, or better yet, a hysterectomy, so you can’t reproduce.
You didn’t need to inform us that you’re a liberal…that was obvious from the get-go.
Back to the topic at hand, the closer Tiller gets to being found guilty of the charges against him.(and he will…) we’re going to be hearing from more and more of his former and present staff about what has gone on in his hell hole of a clinic.
Either through fear of implication in the crimes, or just basic mortification of having ever worked for him, they’ll start coming forward.
The lid on Pandora’s Box is slowly being opened.
theonlythingto fear,
Be not afraid to follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
From Amanda: “Well, Jill… lets be fair. That’s second hand hearsay. Thats the exact same thing as me telling my friend Jill Stanek killed a baby, and my friend calling the cops years later to report it. ”
******
I listened to the recorded, eyewitness account of what occurred at the abortion clinic, and find that Amanda needs to look up the word “hearsay”.
I also saw some attempt to disparage another person who was present during the recorded eyewitness account. No energy was spent in disparaging the abortion clinic employee, which would have been the more logical tactic to discredit the account of the stabbing.
What causes these abortion clinic employees to quit the work, and turn over information to prolifers, for no pay at all??
Jess: What kind of drugs did you take in your formative years that made you completely icapable of logical thought?
Your statements defy any sort of logic.
PLEASE have your tubes tied, or better yet, a hysterectomy, so you can’t reproduce.
You didn’t need to inform us that you’re a liberal…that was obvious from the get-go.
Posted by: Mike at June 24, 2008 11:31 PM
Mike, First of all, I love most of your posts and you crack me up. And I know Jess makes comments that are often offensive to pro-life persons like yourself. But my understanding is that she would love and care for any baby she conceived. If that is true, then maybe you should have your tongue tied.
kb: Many things. For starters:
1.)They come to their senses and FINALLY see what they’re involved with and how deplorable it is.
2.) Guilt at having been involved in killing.
3.) Increased influence from the Pro-Life movement
4.) Shame
5.) Public awareness of what they do for “work”.
6.) The increasing exposition of their dirty little industry, and last but not least,
PRAYERS ANSWERED.
Every abortion is a scar on civilization wether the baby is viable outside the womb or not. Sucking babies from their mother’s womb in bloody pieces (currently the most common method of abortion) is an intrinsically evil and monstrous thing to do.
Hey, welcome back kb!
Another off-topic post: Remember my post about the bacteria that evoloved the ability to live on citrate rather than sugar? The author of that paper (Dr. Richard Lenski) pens an outstanding scientific takedown of Creationist wacko Andy Schlafly. It’s the part labelled “Second Reply” here:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Lenski_dialog
Enjoy. How true scientists answer idiots/charlatans.
LOL Andy Schlafly’s web site brags about the fact that he has published in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons. That’s the same silly rag in which Joel Brind publishes his BS about abortion and breast cancer. A publication there is a good thing to omit from your CV if you are an aspiring scientist.
Jess, I’m not trying to “catch you” in anything, because this honestly might be your belief, but would you mind explaining something to me?
Do you believe that *any* child should be killed prior to a late term induction abortion? If you honestly believe the only goal of an abortion should be to end a pregnancy, you should believe that a woman has a right to go into the doctor at say 23 weeks, and be induced, but not to have that same child killed prior to induction.
The problem with late term aboritons is that they are very often not so much about “my body- my choice” as they are about “this child is not perfect for xyz reason and I can not deal with it for xyz reason so I’m going to kill it now while it’s not *technically* a killing.”
The two philosophies really have very little in common, and I thinke that the abortion industry is very disingenous in presenting late term abortions as a matter of bodily rights.
Perhaps I should change “the problem with late term abortions” to “a problem with late term abortions” as there is obviously much more wrong with LT abortions than simple rhettoric!
“PLEASE have your tubes tied, or better yet, a hysterectomy, so you can’t reproduce.”
Ahhh…. how pro LIFE.
Amazing.
Try not to drown in the hypocrisy thats oozing out of your pores Mike.
“Do you believe that *any* child should be killed prior to a late term induction abortion? If you honestly believe the only goal of an abortion should be to end a pregnancy, you should believe that a woman has a right to go into the doctor at say 23 weeks, and be induced, but not to have that same child killed prior to induction.”
Lauren – I’ve stated that exact same thing on here half a dozen times, and each time, a pro lifer has accused me of lying that I think that should be done rather than killing the fetus based on the fact that I’m pro choice. There is, of course, a small gray period between 23 and 26 weeks where things can get iffy with this – but once a woman enters the third trimester, unless there are some sort of very extreme circumstances, induction/c-section should be the solution.
Too many words only complicate the issue.
It is wrong for anyone to kill a baby!
What person with any heart could do such a thing?
As for anyone’s past, I don’t care.
Today is what all we have and what we do with today is what is important. Ask me, I have a past.
God has given me a new day so He can show His Love
…i pray this prayer-
May the words of my mouth be acceptable in they sight…..as words are powerful and I have not always used them wisely, please show me where I have erred and give me the gift of wisdom so I may only glorify You!
God forgives and we move on with a new life.
We learn from experience. None is perfect and without God we are invisible. May His light shine through the works we do. God surround everyone at Operation Rescue with His Blesssings!
Amanda, I don’t think you’re lying. I think that that inducing an early birth is the only logical extention of the pro-choice argument.
I honestly think that a heavy dose of eugenics has slipped into the late term abortion business unnoticed because late term abortionists try to keep the argument the “right to abortion” rather than what logic has lead to the “right”.
I’m glad to see someone who sees through the absurdity of the late term abortion industry.
Lauren – the way you phrased that actually helps me explain my opinion a little easier…
I see legal abortion as the right to end a pregnancy, not expressly the right to kill a fetus.
While in early term, ending the pregnancy automatically causes the death of the fetus, later term ending of a pregnancy doesn’t.
I can’t think of any reason, with the exception of things like hydrocephalus, why ending the pregnancy should automatically mean killing the fetus.
I don’t either, but that hasn’t stopped the abortion industry from advocating “search and destroy” missions for late term fetuses once an imperfection is discovered.
We should be honest about what is going on, namely that we are killing less than perfect children because they are less than perfect, rather than trying to justify our actions by hiding behind abortion rights.
Of course, it doesn’t seem like this fact is really all that hidden when we look at things like oposition to born-alive bills and acceptance of infanticide.
Honestly I don’t think that late term abortion and early abortion have much to do with each other except for the fact that as it currantly stands, both end in the death of a child. Ideologically, they are very different situations.
Would you oppose legislation that said something along the lines of “a pregnancy can be terminated by method of induction, but the offspring must not be killed prior to induction and must be given all life saving intervention after induction”? If not, you really are seperate from the standard pro-choice party line.
yea, pretty disgusting huh Rae? I believe Tina Davis, she has no reason to lie about something like this.
Posted by: Jasper at June 24, 2008 9:44 PM
Seems the excerpt Jill posted, unlike the full length articles elsewhere, neglected to mention that Davis was a terminated employee. Could that be the reason?
phylo: 8:02: Seems the excerpt Jill posted, unlike the full length articles elsewhere, neglected to mention that Davis was a terminated employee. Could that be the reason?
She may have been terminated because of what she knows about Tiller.
No shame in that. She deserves to be taken seriously.
Why all the interest in Cheryl Sullinger- especially from the 1980’s? For those of you who have not sinned for the past 30 years, please cast the first stone. We, in pro-life , are extremely proud of her- thank you for reminding us ,again of her devotion and love for the preborn and the mothers. She was willing to “lay down her life for a friend”. How many of you are willing to do the same?
Cheryl- we love you and are proud of you!
She could also be a disgruntled employee fired for any number of legitimate reasons.
She could also be a disgruntled employee fired for any number of legitimate reasons.
It’s nice to see some friends from O.R. on this blog. A few things really surprise me about this blog. The first is the unkindness that some people show towards others, how about a little respect ,folks? Also- I know Alayna is a nurse, as is Jill , so am I….many medical persons on here. It is amazing the lack of medical knowledge being shown, or just disregarded. There is a very definite reason why abortion does indeed increase your risk of breast cancer- please read about if from sources other than pro-abort sites. And abortion for hydrocephalus? Shunts are very effective.Babies are being born at 22 weeks now, at at only a lb.or so- and are living – thank God! There is almost no reason to abort due to”medical neccesity” other than an ectopic pregnancy. Almost every condition can be medically managed for mom and baby.Be smart- get off of P.P’s sites and gain some accurate info from pro-life sites such as this, and O.R.
Paula, Jill is not a nurse anymore. She is a RTL propagandist.
You wrote: “Be smart- get off of P.P’s sites and gain some accurate info from pro-life sites such as this, and O.R.”
HAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAH ROTFL
Lauren, you wrote: “Would you oppose legislation that said something along the lines of “a pregnancy can be terminated by method of induction, but the offspring must not be killed prior to induction and must be given all life saving intervention after induction”? ”
I’d oppose that, sure. Did you really say “all life saving intervention”??? Who’s going to pay for that? Maybe use the proceeds from a special tax on right-to-lifers?
Also, forbidding the pregnant woman from killing her fetus prior to induction while it is in her womb violates her ownership of that womb.
“A few things really surprise me about this blog. The first is the unkindness that some people show towards others, how about a little respect ,folks?”
We’re working on that, Paula.
I don’t always catch it, but I agree that it reduces the conversation to internet shouting matches.
However, those of us who’ve been here awhile have become familiar enough with each other that we feel comfortable enough to jab each other in the ribs once in a awhile. The challenge is to discern if it’s an attack or just playing.
That above post was from me, carder, btw.
“Be smart- get off of P.P’s sites and gain some accurate info from pro-life sites such as this, and O.R.”
AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
oh good Lord.
Yes, sure, I’m going to get “accurate” information from a group who advocates and promotes violence and harassment. And this Sunday I’ll be attending services at Westboro Baptist. Pfft.
How about not looking to propaganda sites (on either side) for information and instead reading those gosh-darn MEDICAL JOURNALS that are filled with craaaaaaaaazy things like FACTS or EVIDENCE BASED theories. Unfortunately, extremists on both sides would rather stick with propaganda, because the reality is, the facts show strengths and weaknesses to both sides of the disucussion.
Lauren-
In theory, no, I would not oppose that kind of legistlation, but the wording on “life saving” interventions would need to be VERY specific. I mean, are we talking incubators and oxygen here? Or ventilation and life support? There is a line to be drawn if for no other reason than lack of funding and resources.
We would have to trust that if this was left in the hands of OB/GYNs in hospitals – not abortion clinics, that the doctor who delievered the baby could make an accurate decision on whether or not this baby had a chance. I can’t see hooking up 20 week preemies to life support – our NICUs would simply not be able to handle it. Pallative care and pain management – of COURSE. Life support? No. But of course if a woman decides at 7.5/8 months she wants to abort because of Downs Syndrome or something – it doesn’t seem unrealistic to me that the adoption process could begin right away, and have labor induced.
I guess being in the medical field, you respect all life-unborn and born. Again, by some of these comments- I see some very unkind words. Thanks, Jill- I appreciate your explanation. I have been in pro-life for over 20 years, and I don’t get rattled by much- just saddened. These are the folks when we are on “Truth Tours” that think that by yelling nasty remarks or throwing objects at us, that we will just go away. Wrong!
Amanda- you do have a legitimate point. Pick up a nursing magazine- there are plenty to chose from at the larger book stores, and read about the ABC’s of abortion and breast cancer. There is plenty of med. info abounding- if you want to know the truth. And SoMG-what does that stand for? We have an expression, “Once a nurse, always a nurse”.Do you know if she keeps her license current? Are you sure that she doesn’t practice anywhere at all, or even volunteer? We nurses see her as working very hard at her job. A nurse offers help, support, any aid within our scope of practice. It’s not just checking vitals and starting IV’s. Thank God that Jill can do this type of “Nursing”! Final note, going back to Cheryl S. (we pro-lifers talk): There has been a man trying to reclaim his O.R.”moniker”. I
will not give his name, but many of us know him. Just wondering if he could be using this format to “out” Cheryl- as if her credibility was hurt! Please! So many of us old- time pro-lifers know one another…and we recognize each other from ground-pounding, rescuing days, and beyond. Jill-interesting site. Keep up the good work!
Paula did you read:
http://www.operationrescue.org/?p=442(read the comments)
The detachment from reality that is exhibited in this article is appalling. Even when confronted with the scientific evidence (in comments and elsewhere on web) that luminol reacts similarly with other compounds, OR insists that “It’s blood” because that fits our story?
TO paraphrase from a source your side is so fond of, before you accuse someone else of misinformation better look to your own before casting that stone.
Amanda- one more comment, then I have to do the
“traditional nurse work”. Please tell, since you profess to know, and I want to know, truly- which groups are violent and harrasing? Do tell!
I have been w. the best of “us”, from Chicago to Kansas and other states. I have never witnessed a pro-lifer either promoting or being violent. I can tell you that I have witnessed pro-lifers hurt badly by flying objects, physically threatened for praying outside an abortion mill, and I have had both males and females in my face, yelling and screaming, and threatening me. The nastiest, most vile, most threatening people are pro-aborts when you are out w/ graphic signs, the “Truth Trucks”, or simply praying at a mill. Yes- there have been a few goof-balls who acted on their own, but I have never met them. Pro-aborts can be extremely hateful- in word and in deed. And yes, I can provide example after example. Can you,Amanda?
Mike,
Good chance that the stabbing made that clinic worker sick of abortion. She got to see what it is in living color.
_______
Thanks, Bobby. Wish I could be here more, but am doing a lot of work and writing all the time. Following these long debate threads is difficult.
_______
I saw the common statement that “Killing babies is illegal”. As we can see from this incident, enforcement of the Born Alive Infants Protection act is very difficult, so the infanticide continues. Of course Obama supports infanticide, and apparently so do a good deal of other radical abortion proponents. There is no real moral difference between killing the very youngest humans, and killing older humans and disabled humans.
___________
On kind words: Jesus sometimes blasted those people who directly opposed His message and work. Therefore I find that it’s not crucial to protect the feelings of those with this policy of gratuitously killing the innocent and weak. Sometimes a person must have his conscience activated by paying a social price for his wrongdoing.
___________
In this election season, are we doing all we can to send the information that Jill accumulates throughout the internet and to our friends and families?
I am not going to be late for work, but as I was getting off of this site- I read :phylosopher’s blog. Yes, luminol does interact with other substances- no dispute there. Thank you for the reference-I did read it.
This story was from 2006, and that is what the folks at O.R. believe. Can you disprove that it is indeed blood? They lodged an investigation- did you assist? We you there? Why don’t you use your true name? God Bless You, Whomever you are!
Paula,
SoMG: Spirit of Martin Gardner
Paula –
I sure can. Where shall I begin? Just for the sake of saving space, I’ll start with the year 2000.
– May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire on resulted in damage estimated at US$20,000.
-October 1, 2000: A Catholic priest drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being shot at by a security guard.
-June 11, 2001: A bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington on destroyed a wall, resulting in US$6000 in damages
– July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson.
– December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year.
-September 13, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan crashed his car into the Edgerton Women’s Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and then started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions, however Edgerton is not an abortion clinc.[14]
– April 25, 2007: A package left at a women’s health clinic in Austin, Texas contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device.[15]
– May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[16]
December 6, 2007: Two unidentified persons set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Albuquerque, New Mexico.[17]
-Attempted murder
Violence has also occurred in Canada, where three doctors have been attacked to date. There is speculation that the timing of the shootings is related to the Canadian observance of Remembrance Day. The physicians were part of pattern of attacks, which targeted providers in Canada and upstate New York, including Dr. Barnett Slepian. All victims were shot in their homes with a rifle, at dusk, in late October or early November. James Kopp was charged with the murder of Dr. Slepian and the attempted murder of Dr. Short; he is suspected of having committed the other shootings as well.[9][10]
– November 8, 1994: Dr. Garson Romalis of Vancouver, British Columbia was shot.
– November 10, 1995: Dr. Hugh Short of Ancaster, Ontario was shot.
– November 11, 1997: Dr. Jack Fainman of Winnipeg, Manitoba was shot.
– July 11, 2000: Dr. Romalis was stabbed by an unindentified assailant in the lobby of his clinic.[18]
You say its a few “individuals”? Really? Well, those pesky FACTS beg to differ:
“Some organisations in the United States which oppose abortion either explicitly or implicitly advocate violence against abortion providers in contrast with the majority of the pro-life movement. Two such organizations are The Army of God, an underground network of activists who believe that the use of violence is an appropriate tool for fighting against abortion, and the American Coalition of Life Activists, who published the Nuremberg Files.”
The Nuremberg files – women walking in to clinics for UNKNOWN reasons are photographed, their license plates are photographed, and these images are published on the internet along with home addresses and telephone numbers if found, where the site encourages harassment and humiliation of these women.
The Army Of God and Operation Rescue have also SUPPORTED the violence:
The Army of God justified the actions of Paul Jennings Hill on the grounds that “whatever force is legitimate to defend the life of a born child is legitimate to defend the life of an unborn child… if in fact Paul Hill did kill or wound abortionist John Britton, and accomplices James Barrett and Mrs. Barrett, his actions are morally justified if they were necessary for the purpose of defending innocent human life”.
And your OR hero Bob Enyart? Well besides being a dead beat dad and a cheating porn addict with a personal life that reads like a Jerry Springer episode, he adovocates the death penalty for gays and people who have abortions.
“He advocates for a Constitutional Monarchy under the leadership of a King, and would exclude a woman from becoming a regnant. In an article published in the Denver weekly newspaper Westword, Enyart said that “it’s natural that men lead the household” and that households that are led by women turn out to be an “unhappy household.” He also calls for the establishment of a criminal code under the Old Testament (or the Mosaic Law as Enyart likes to emphasize) as national law which includes the death penalty for offences such as homosexuality, murder, attempted murder, adultery and abortion.
Homosexuality was frequently singled out for criticism by Enyart, who sold T-shirts and bumper stickers imprinted with slogans like “Friends Don’t Let Friends Be Homos” and “Homos Make Me Sick”. He also once played the song by the rock band Queen “Another One Bites the Dust” as the names of AIDS victims scrolled by on the screen.”
…. funny he mentions adultery. By his own beliefs, he should have been executed years ago.
“Sporadic violence has also scarred the movement’s public face, and no doubt further dampened the enthusiasm of some people to be identified with the pro-life cause. The murder of Slepian, the 1998 bombing of the All Women New Woman clinic in Birmingham, Ala., the gassing of clinics in Florida and the rash of anthrax threats against clinics across the nation last winter cannot have helped build public support for the movement. ”
All you have to do to see the harassment is back-track through Jills posts. Standing outside people’s homes on Christmas Day, waving bloody plastic dolls in people’s faces, sending death threats to contractors and their families, etc.
And I got to experience this all myself, having my tires slashed, and being told I should get raped and burn in Hell – because a training for a Teen Moms Health Education program I interned with took place at PP.
Need more?
How about Ken Scott? Do I even need to get in to the details there?
– May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[16]
December 6, 2007: Two unidentified persons set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Albuquerque, New Mexico.[17]
Hmmmm. Disgruntled ex-employees????
LOL – theres about as much evidence to support that as there is that the fires were actually set by aliens from a distant galaxy. As in – NONE.
Amanda, your pals have a much higher score, since you’re keeping count. And that’s not including the inhumane procedures of dismemberment and killing humans.
You’ll find that your association with those who kill the innocent makes some people angry beyond ability to comply with their own ethics, sometimes. One might call it temporary insanity.
Association with those who conceal the rape and abuse of minors, and who gratuitously kill innocent humans has some associated job hazards, though the statistics show the hazards to be not nearly as severe as those suffered by prolifers overall.
Sympathy rating from me = zero.
I am not going to be late for work, but as I was getting off of this site- I read :phylosopher’s blog. Yes, luminol does interact with other substances- no dispute there. Thank you for the reference-I did read it.
This story was from 2006, and that is what the folks at O.R. believe. Can you disprove that it is indeed blood? They lodged an investigation- did you assist? We you there? Why don’t you use your true name? God Bless You, Whomever you are!
Posted by: Paula at June 26, 2008 10:33 AM
Considering I (happily) do not have a blog, let me point out that the link was to an OR blog. Any proving is up to the investigators. But these investigators (one of whom was Sullenger) used a “chemical test” which indicates a presence of 3 possible substances, refuse to allow that it might be the one which is a common disinfectant and which can be found in any medical (or household) facility and is much more likely the cause of a luminol reaction. They refuse to even consider that possibility – well Paula – let’s just say their credibility and yours for defending it, is highly suspect.
“Amanda, your pals have a much higher score, since you’re keeping count. And that’s not including the inhumane procedures of dismemberment and killing humans. ”
Who exactly are my “pals”? And where is your “score”?
I’m not “keeping” anything. I was asked to produce evidence that US Pro Life groups have advocated violence and harassment – and I did. End of story.
http://abortionviolence.com/SUMMARY.HTM Be sure to follow the links for the full news stories and documentation.
There is no advocacy of violence by prolife groups. Army of God doesn’t call itself a prolife group, nor do prolife groups encourage what has been attributed to it. You really need to stop with the (reflexive) misrepresentations.
The most dangerous position is for a prolife woman who has been impregnated by a pro abortion male. Those women are in much more danger from a statistical standpoint than you (or any abortionist) have ever faced from prolifers or abortion abolitionists (a different group entirely).
‘Your Pals’ are those whose killing activities you defend and justify. You sacrifice your own honor for them, so it’s reasonable to assume that you have significant feelings for them.
“There is no advocacy of violence by prolife groups. Army of God doesn’t call itself a prolife group, nor do prolife groups encourage what has been attributed to it. You really need to stop with the (reflexive) misrepresentations.”
LOLOLOLOLOL. And The KKK doesn’t call themselves a hate group. Doesn’t make it any less accurate.
And what about OR? They’re not a pro life group? And you just flat out ignored the part about harassment – which is all there in black and white, kind of hard to misrepresent things when there are facts laid right out there in front of you.
Amanda,
From my own five years of active involvement in pro-life action I have never personally seen a pro-life person harass anybody. In fact, any sidewalk counselors I know are smart enough to discourage it because it reduces their chances of communicating effectively with the women considering abortion. I have however have had pro-abort people swerve their cars at me on three different occasions, once when I was standing with my children and the other two times when I was kneeling down praying. And I see the pro-aborts swearing and insulting pro-lifers so many times I couldn’t count them on my fingers and toes. So realistically, pro-aborts are tens of times more inclined to violent outbursts then pro-lifers. I think pro-aborts reflect their own internal hurt and conflict about their abortive experiences in violent outbursts against pro-life protesters.
truthseeker-hello!We have seen each other’s blogs from another site. If I cried “foul” and called the police, everytime that I had been threatened (physically and verbally), I would never be out of the courtroom. I have been doing counseling, tours, etc.for 24 yrs, and have never witnessed pro-lifers being violent.I know that it has happened, but no group that I am affiliated with has ever promoted violence or harrassment. I agree with you on the reasons for such anger on the part of pro-aborts. Yes, a nerve was touched! Amanda- yes, you quoted a handful of violent events. The Army of God- I didn’t even know they still existed. I don’t know Ken Scott. And how did homosexuality get into this? I thought that this was about violence/ harrassment to and from pro-lifers and pro-aborts. I have never posted my opinion on homosexuality- it is not relevant to this post. And my OR “hero” is Bob E.- I’m glad to know that, and all of that other info that you presented. And all I have to do is backtrack Jill’s blogs? Amanda- you presume to know so much, when nothing you have said, was even hinted at. If your anger is coming from P.A.S.- please seek help. You are all over multiple areas, and all in anger. What is triggering your rage? BTW- a final note, then I will let you rage about whatever…. My “Hero” is God, not a human. I admire many pro-lifers, esp. Troy and Cheryl, Joe, Ann and Eric S, et al.I have a very busy life, and this is with no disrespect, but I do not have time to “backtrack” blogs. Life moves forward, and is good. Good luck to you, Amanda and phylosopher – if I ever want to bicker, I know that when/ if I come back- you’ll still be at it. Choose Life! God Bless You!
LMAO @ “rage”
If Bob Enyart is your hero, that says more about you than I’d ever want to know.
but, awwww thanks for the fake patronizing advice.
Thanks Paula and God bless you. Amanda has said on several occasions that she would NOT personally choose death although she still stands up for every mother’s right to choose death for her baby.
Amanda, kind of off-topic but I think you should be concerned about putting BC in your body to prevent pregnancy. In just seems common-sensical that putting high doses of hormones in your body for any extended period of time will almost surely have unhealthy side-effects on you.
Back to the violence problem: Amanda defends killing very young humans, and she ignores the other violent acts and propensities from her side. She didn’t want to see that site full of murders, rapes, forced abortions, and other violent crimes done by her pals.
It’s routine and expected.
That’s just it KB. I don’t see Amanda as being on the “other” side. She would never choose to hurt or kill a child of any age, including unborn. Her “rants” are not due to the PAS that me and Paula were talking about.
Obama is the only one I know who came out publicly making efforts to table a law that would prevent just this kind of atrocity where born alive infants are being stabbed or left to die at an abortuary.
Back on ,for a N.Y. minute, to show my husband this site.
Truthseeker- you are indeed, a dear.Someone once said it’s better to be kind, than right. I see that in you.
MK- I met you last year at a meeting in Chicago- I know that you don’t remember me, but we were sitting with 1 person between us. hello, again!
Amanda- please read a person’s complete blog. I was being sarcastic when I said that Bob E. was my “hero”. I said that GOD was my Hero- but there are pro-lifers that I admire greatly. And I offered you no “fake patronizing advice”. Too bad that you took it is such. Again, the rage resurfaces…I do hope that you address your anger before it eats you alive.
God Bless You All! Choose Life!
Paula,
Please stick around, your remarks are refreshing. Thanks for choosing life! God Bless You!
I just want to take some money! :)
Press here
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