OctoMom and Mom brawl on tape Part III: The house
UPDATE, 12p: I was in such a hurry to get out of here today I forgot to write I think Radaronline.com’s sinister background music was way over the top. Thanks to commenter Lauren for reminding me of that thought.
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In part III of Radaronline.com’s video exposé of OctoMom Nadya Suleman arguing with her mother over her most recent decision to undergo IVF, which resulted in octuplets, we see the Suleman home.
It’s not awful; I’ve seen worse. But it’s not good either. Chaotic, cramped, cluttered, a tad white trashy.
I’m wondering more and more about Nadya’s grasp on reality. Help for only one year? Envisioning moving to only a 3-4 bedroom home, because she likes close living arrangements? I think of the need for space at Jon and Kate plus Eight’s home or the Duggar home in 17 Kids and Counting – which is a number not too far from Nadya’s 14.
And I have decided I definitely don’t like Nadya’s mother. Very negative person, and why does she continually draw away from Nadya, as if she thinks Nadya is going to hit her?
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Ok, that was WAY over the top. The heavy handed music playing as they zoomed in on bunk beds…come on!
And the DUN DUN as they zipped to the crayon marks and air vent.
That is ridiculous. We all know that families with kids sometimes have a bit of crayon on the walls. I have some pencil marks on my hallway wall too. Are they going to zoom in on them and play ominous music?
I think it was a big mistake for her to allow the cameras into her house when it is very obvious that things were edited to look as bad as possible.
Nadya doesn’t have a grasp on reality at all. I read in the newspaper this morning that even Cher has invited her to come back down to this planet with the rest of us. Now , THAT’S saying something!
I agree, Lauren. My house has looked much worse at times. Kids write on walls. Surprise!
The house didn’t look horrendous to me. It looked like someplace where children live!
Nadya may not fully understand what it’s going to take to raise her children, but I think her mother is not the nicest person, either. She apparently wishes the newest babies were not alive, and I’m guessing she didn’t have many children herself (is Nadya an only child?), because her mother said, “Even the two year olds wake up at night.” Anyone here know two year olds who always sleep through the night?? That’s called LIFE WITH KIDS.
I don’t think either one of these women has a full grasp on reality.
For those people who think that the Catholic Church is so restrictive — do you see why now the Church in her wisdom teaches what She does at least about IVF?
I do sympathize with the mother in that she has been thrust into this situation by her daughter. Nadya claims that she “doesn’t like to accept help from others” but she puts herself in situations where people have to come to her aid.
For those people who think that the Catholic Church is so restrictive — do you see why now the Church in her wisdom teaches what She does at least about IVF?
Posted by: Eileen #2 at February 26, 2009 9:36 AM
Eileen the Catholic Church isn’t against IVF just because of this situation. It’s against IVF. Period.
I am not against IVF. But I am against unregulated IVF. Implanting this many embryos was too risky. It should not be allowed. This case screams that loud and clear.
“do you see why now the Church in her wisdom teaches what She does at least about IVF?”
Oh oh oh! I do Eileen, I do!
Putt your hand down Horseshack. She wasn’t asking you! :)
You might be way to young to get the reference Bobby. I’m pretty old!
There was a reference there? Yeah, totally missed that one…
“Welcome back…”
I was too young for the show, asitis, but I did catch that one. Nice.
“Ooo, ooo, Mr. Kotter!”
Yeh Michael! Hey, thanks for the “Welcome Back”. Or maybe not… now that song will be in my head all day!
Gabe, Vinny, Horeshack… those were the days!
Oh wait, you mean the “Put your hand down Horseshack” was a reference. Ah…well, I still don’t get it, but at least I realize that it references something…
The dramatic music thing and zooming in on the mess and stuff was way overdone. I have no children and I know that there’s nothing wrong with a bit of crayon on the wall.
I maintain, though, as I would expect reasonable people to do, that this woman has been completely irresponsible. This is bad for her children and bad for her parents and bad for her.
Bobby, here’s something fun for you if you want.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqzAedTW17U
Shows the whole ganag, including a dreamy young John Travolta. Watch for Horseshack near the start. Here’s wearing a plaid shirt, front row, doing his signature “oh,oh,oh Mr Kottah”!
OMG seventies television!
I agree, Lauren. My house has looked much worse at times. Kids write on walls. Surprise!
I am sooo glad no one can see the inside of my middle boys’ room. Good grief!
RE: crayon marks. Magic Erase sponges and can of paint!
I do sympathize with the mother in that she has been thrust into this situation by her daughter.
I feel for her mother as well, but again, there is something odd here. In my family my mother made it clear when I had my first that she was not going to be an instant babysitter, and she never has been. I wonder if her mother ever put her foot down before it came to this. I don’t think so. No one did. Everyone let it get out of hand and now everyone is complaining about the consequences, and it is exasperating to watch.
I am 100% on Nadya’s mom’s side.
I could never “get over” the injustice my daughter would have brought on 14 of my grandchildren- watching them suffer everyday because they have no real father.
Nadya is sick- to think that she can still pursue a Masters and somehow that a Masters can provide for a household of 15? No woman makes enough milk for 8 babies, so there’s her whole salary in formula right there? And one nanny? State law in Texas insists on a ratio of no more than 4 infants to one caregiver, so she’ll need a whole staff.
Even regulated, IVF is wrong- it kills children, exploits women- and turns kids into something we can create at will in a lab to our own specifications.
I must disagree. A 4 bedroom house would be plenty big enough. Until about 9 months ago, the *largest* house my family had lived in was 1200 sq. ft – for 7 children, 2 adults, and the occasional friend who needed help.
As long as everyone has a place to lay their head at night, it’s big enough.
I follow quite a few blogs of moms with 10-14 children that live in homes most would find quite small.
And, the Catholic Church opposes IVF because it is an assault on the dignity of human life, not because too many kids make for a messy house.
A lesser issue, but must be said:
What’s wrong with this woman’s face? How many lip injections/nose jobs has she had?
My normal response in situations with an overburdened mother is that you help the mother. In this case, however- which is not natural, IVF is NOT NATURAL, I don’t think any amount of help for any length of time would work. To place them for adoption would separate them, but there is no way for them to be properly cared for by their mother.
It takes freak science to mess things up this irreperably.
Others might say it takes science applied in an irresponsible manner to a freakish individual to mess thing up irreparably.
I have a theory about all of this.
I think after going through multiple pregnancy losses she became so focused on having a child that she lost focus on the reality of raising all of them. I don’t know how many times she went in to actually get the IVF, but perhaps the first time really did produce this many embryos. I don’t know.
Anyways, I read that the doctor was using her to boost his numbers because her infertility was related to her tubes and not (obviously) her ability to carry a pregnancy to term.
I think she made some really bad decisions, but I can’t help but feel like she was taken advantage of by her doctor as well.
It’s not awful; I’ve seen worse. But it’s not good either. Chaotic, cramped, cluttered, a tad white trashy.
Jill—
Please don’t use the absolutely loathsome — not to mention dehumanizing — term “white trash”.
I think she made some really bad decisions, but I can’t help but feel like she was taken advantage of by her doctor as well.
Posted by: Lauren at February 26, 2009 10:39 AM
I agree Lauren!
asitis, my point was that when you use unnatural and immoral means to conceive then you start down the slippery slope…
Whenever Bobby agrees then I know that I am on the right track :D
Why was that video called a “brawl” ?
No one raised their voice and they spoke in a civilized manner to each other.
I think Nadya’s mom has a much better grasp on reality than Nadya.
IMO, Nadya should give up those 8 for adoption and concentrate on the 6 she already had.
SB Smith-
Adoption where? Do you suggest splitting up the siblings? Adoption is not without emotional trauma, too.
She has victimized her babies in a way that can’t be fixed. It’s now a case for damage control.
“asitis, my point was that when you use unnatural and immoral means to conceive then you start down the slippery slope…”
My point is IVF doesn’t have to go down the slippery slope.
Others might say it takes science applied in an irresponsible manner to a freakish individual to mess thing up irreparably.
The capacity to have litters didn’t exist before freak science. And even those cases where IVF produces one or two children who are born, they have many many more siblings who are dead. Killing babies to have babies is disgusting, no matter how many actually survive.
My point is IVF doesn’t have to go down the slippery slope.
When you give permission to people to kill many kids in order to birth some, what do you expect to come from this?
Speaking of the slippery slope IVF argument, here is a somewhat related article from Dec. 2006 by my BOY Wesley J. Smith. http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/dec/06121103.html It is interesting to note how attitudes have changed.
The capacity to have litters didn’t exist before freak science.
Posted by: Jacqueline at February 26, 2009 11:04 AM
The capacity to have huge litters doesn’t have to exist with IVF.
Air conditioning is also unnatural… let’s do away with that as well!
My family had a crayon mark on one of our walls from when I was two to when I was nineteen and we got new wallpaper. My mom scrubbed at it with all sorts of products but she could never manage to get the whole thing off.
I can understand Nadya’s mom’s frustration, but the kids are born now and lecturing Nadya about what a bad idea it was isn’t going to change that. If Nadya did give up the octuplets for adoption, I’d worry about the effects on their older siblings. If I were a little kid and one (not to mention eight) of my siblings was given up for adoption, I’d worry that my mom might give me up for adoption next.
Nadya is obviously out of touch with reality, but at least she realizes that she has to devote her time to her kids. If she wants positivity, though, she’s gonna have to ban her mom from the house!
On the topic of IVF, the whole thing would be a lot less problematic if people could, say, make two embryos at most, implant them both, and not make any more or implant any more until the first two were born or died.
She has victimized her babies in a way that can’t be fixed. It’s now a case for damage control.
Posted by: Jacqueline at February 26, 2009 11:02 AM
Adoption would really give the children a better chance.
Lauren, 8:22a: I was in such a hurry to get out of here I forgot to write I thought the melodramatic music was way over the top, too.
John, 10:41a: I knew somebody would complain about my use of the terminology “white trash.” Fighting political correctness here… :)
SB Smith, 10:58a: This particular video didn’t include footage of the sort of “brawl” seen in Video I in particular. But it ws the 3rd in a series of videos, so I kept the same title.
Air conditioning is also unnatural… let’s do away with that as well!
Posted by: Leah at February 26, 2009 11:22 AM
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Wow, I wasn’t aware that air conditioning was so controversial and affected the creation/destruction of human life! If that were the case, perhaps this would be a decent comparison.
But it’s not. :D
actually kel, ivf isn’t controversial either, except with staunch pro-lifers. Just like air conditioning isn’t controversial either, except with staunch environmentalists.
So it WAS a decent comparison.
Kel, serious question, can I assume that since you are against IVF because it has to do with the unnatural creation/destruction of humans, that you are also against the death penalty?
John, 10:41a: I knew somebody would complain about my use of the terminology “white trash.” Fighting political correctness here… :)
I don’t think that “white trash” is even politically incorrect, as a term. Just rude, I guess? I mean, would you call someone ‘trash?’ In a public sphere of discussion?
And of course, by specifying that it’s WHITE trash, the implication is that it differs from the “normal” kind of trash. Which, given the subject being specified, basically implies that trash is non-white by definition. I’m assuming that wasn’t a secret, since I’m guessing that was the PC aspect being referred to. But still, I don’t think that’s a PC thing. I don’t think it was ever considered okay to imply that trash was by definition non-white, except by out-and-out racists (as opposed to, say, “colored,” which was once considered okay by people who may not have been racist). And I don’t know why you’d want to imply that now.
I don’t really see how acknowledging that is politically correct, as opposed to merely respectful of other people. I don’t think that it’s ever been totally fine to call people white trash, and only the PC police and their frivolous objections changed that fact, or something. To my knowledge it’s always been a pretty snide, rude phrase to use.
I mean, I guess if it’s important to you, then fight away, proudly, for the chance to call other people trash (or imply that still others are merely trash by default). But I think it’s faulty logic to hide it behind the usual “I’m not PC” cloak.
Jill, I meant to also add that I’m honestly not trying to instigate something by anything I just said. I really am enjoying reading about the octuplets situation here, and I appreciate your coverage of it so far.
Just as an FYI; WD-40 gets crayon off walls LIKE MAGIC! Then just wash with a little soapy Dawn water. (Has to be Dawn)
Milehi –
I agree about the home size. I always shared a room with one of my sisters and I have three boys in one room now. If I built a house it would have big bedrooms but my kids would still share. Heck the baby brings a sleeping bag into the boys room to sleep on the floor, they never wanted their own rooms.
The capacity to have huge litters doesn’t have to exist with IVF.
I oppose fertility drugs also for this reason. Creating babies that the body has no capacity to handle kills babies and mothers.
On the topic of IVF, the whole thing would be a lot less problematic if people could, say, make two embryos at most, implant them both, and not make any more or implant any more until the first two were born or died.
Died is more like it. The odds of survival with being created in a petri dish are very slim. You wouldn’t take such chances with your own life- why then should it be legal for people to make and kill kids until the get however many they want?
Adoption would really give the children a better chance.
Maybe- but can you find a home for all 8 together. Splitting up siblings just adds to adoption trauma. Even kids adopted into the best homes have abandonment/identity issues thrust upon them.
My point was that this situation is furbar-ed beyond a good option. No matter what, she’s damaged her kids.
By the way, I don’t expect people that support killing kids because they don’t want them to oppose killing kids because they do want them- killing kids is killing kids.
Air conditioning is also unnatural… let’s do away with that as well!
Air conditioning SAVES lives, it doesn’t create life and then kill it, which is what IVF does in the vast majority of cases.
a/c saves lives???? Yeh sure, in extreme situations (i.e. Extreme heat and fragile health ). That’s not the normal situation. A/Cis, for the most part, a matter of comfort not life or death.
“Adoption would really give the children a better chance.”
Maybe- but can you find a home for all 8 together. Splitting up siblings just adds to adoption trauma. Even kids adopted into the best homes have abandonment/identity issues thrust upon them.
Posted by: Jacqueline at February 26, 2009 2:33 PM
I would definitely split them up. I wouldn’t give it a second thought.
Thanks for the link, Bobby. Once one steps onto that slippery slope there is no stopping as is apparent with Ms. Goodman.
a/c saves lives???? Yeh sure, in extreme situations (i.e. Extreme heat and fragile health ). That’s not the normal situation. A/Cis, for the most part, a matter of comfort not life or death.
I’m writing from TEXAS. Not having A/C in Texas can easily kill you. Sometimes fans just don’t cut it.
That aside- show me an air conditioner that has created and killed babies and you might have a valid analogy.
true that. Texas heat can be extreme at times. But I bet you and others also run in there for comfort at times. That is, it wouldn’t kill you to turn it off…. You’d just be sweaty!
I’m still waiting for you to find me an air conditioner that creates and kills babies.
Oh, it doesn’t create or kill baies Jacqueline – well unless of course, a/c makes a couple “randy” for some reason… or a portable a/c fell on a baby I suppose.
But seriously…. Leah’s comments about a/c was with regards to your saying IVF should be banned because it’s unnatural. That’s the only aspect she was addressing with the comparison.
Unnatural things that BY THEIR NATURE kill human beings are what we oppose. Not unnatural things that keep Texans cool in the summer.
It’s still an absurd analogy. I don’t know why you keep defending it.
By the way- a couple creating a baby through sex is totally natural. The A/C did not create that baby.
Secondly, an A/C falling on a child is a freak accident. Children dying in IVF is the standard.
I won’t continue to dignify this analogy by pointing such things out anymore, though…
Jacqueline, your problem is that you are thinking it has to be a perfect analogy. It doesn’t. She just pick one aspect of what you said (“unnatural”).
Hey, but why stop there…. how about kbhvac could install the a/c. He can’t perform IVF. SOh snap Asitis! What a dumb analogy! I don’t know how you can defend it.
You’re infuriating- It doesn’t have to be a perfect analogy, just remotely relevant.
A/C is unnatural. Fine. What we oppose about IVF is the killing of children. If A/Cs killed children at the rate that IVF does, then we’d oppose A/C’s.
You have succeeded in annoying me.
Thing is Jacqueline, not everyone agrees that IVF is “the killing of children”. For many, many people, what you refer to as “freak science” is what has given them their beautiful children.
Leah was addressing your complaint that IVF is “unnatural”. a/c is also “unnatural”. It is also “controversial” among a certain group (staunch environmentalists) just as IVF is (stauch prolifers). The rest of society thinks it’s okay. There are the similarties.
Thing is Jacqueline, not everyone agrees that IVF is “the killing of children”.
Yeah, and those people are wrong, so we can move on.
For many, many people, what you refer to as “freak science” is what has given them their beautiful children.
And for those beautiful children, their were dozens of other beautiful children that died because petri dishes are proven to be inhospitable environments in which to create life. The warmth and nourishment of the womb is where babies are designed to be conceived and implant.
Ask yourself about these many, many people: If the odds of them dying in IVF were the same as their children dying (upwards of 80%), do you think they’d take that sort of risk with their own lives? Why then should it be acceptable for them to create kids with only a 20% chance at living because they want a child that “looks like them”? If you want a child to love and raise- ADOPT. This is selfish entitlement. Period.
Thing is Jacqueline, not everyone agrees that IVF is “the killing of children”.
Yeah, and those people are wrong, so we can move on.
Posted by: Jacqueline at February 27, 2009 7:26 AM
To YOU they are wrong Jacqueline. And that doesn’t really matter.
“And for those beautiful children, their were dozens of other beautiful children that died because petri dishes are proven to be inhospitable environments in which to create life. The warmth and nourishment of the womb is where babies are designed to be conceived and implant”
Those embryos were potentially beautiful children. And totally dependant on someone creating them in a petri dish, successful implantation and subsequent pregnancy and birth.
And the thing is, couples who use IVF are not designed for making babies without a little help. Sure it’s all Disney to say “the warmth and nourishment of the womb is where babies are designed to be conceived”, but for some people that’s not the reality. And I for one don’t think that I, as a very fertile woman with two children of my own, or even you should tell them they are wrong to want their own and use IVF, especially if they see nothing wrong with it themselves.
Ask yourself about these many, many people: If the odds of them dying in IVF were the same as their children dying (upwards of 80%), do you think they’d take that sort of risk with their own lives? Why then should it be acceptable for them to create kids with only a 20% chance at living because they want a child that “looks like them”? If you want a child to love and raise- ADOPT. This is selfish entitlement. Period.
Posted by: Jacqueline at February 27, 2009 7:26 AM
Ask yourself about these many, many people: If the odds of them dying in IVF were the same as their children dying (upwards of 80%), do you think they’d take that sort of risk with their own lives? Why then should it be acceptable for them to create kids with only a 20% chance at living because they want a child that “looks like them”? If you want a child to love and raise- ADOPT. This is selfish entitlement. Period.
Posted by: Jacqueline at February 27, 2009 7:26
Well, I can’t say none of them would risk their lives that much. But I might be wrong. There could be women that so desperately want children that they might. can you understand that? I think I can. Though I’m not one of them.
But regardless, why is a 20% chance acceptable to couples using IVF? Well, they beleive differently than you: they see those embryos as potential children. And without IVF the chance ofcreating kids would be far less than 20%. Maybe even 0%.
I understand that’s not the way you think though. That’s why IVF doesn’t apply to you.