George Tiller murdered
UPDATE, 8:45p: Fr. Frank Pavone of Priests for Life released a YouTube statement on George Tiller’s death earlier today. While the first part of his statement is obsolete because Tiller’s killer has been apprehended, the rest is helpful.
[HT: commenter Mike]
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UPDATE, 8:30p: Gateway Pundit has information on Tiller’s murderer, Scott Roeder.
[HT: moderator Carder]
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Dr. George Tiller, late-term abortionist, was murdered today just after 10 am in the lobby of Reformation Lutheran Church in Wichita, KS, where he and his wife were active members.
Through his attorneys, his family has issued a statement.
Professor Robert George of Princeton has also issued a statement on National Review regarding this tragic disregard for human life, with which we voice our agreement…
Whoever murdered George Tiller has done a gravely wicked thing. The evil of this action is in no way diminished by the blood George Tiller had on his own hands. No private individual had the right to execute judgment against him. We are a nation of laws. Lawless violence breeds only more lawless violence. Rightly or wrongly, George Tiller was acquitted by a jury of his peers. “Vengeance is mine, says the Lord.” For the sake of justice and right, the perpetrator of this evil deed must be prosecuted, convicted, and punished.
By word and deed, let us teach that violence against abortionists is not the answer to the violence of abortion. Every human life is precious. George Tiller’s life was precious. We do not teach the wrongness of taking human life by wrongfully taking a human life. Let our “weapons” in the fight to defend the lives of abortion’s tiny victims, be chaste weapons of the Spirit.
Our prayers are with the family of Dr. George Tiller during this difficult time of loss.
[Photo attribution: markljackson.net]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
“By word and deed, let us teach that violence against abortionists is not the answer to the violence of abortion. Every human life is precious. George Tiller’s life was precious. We do not teach the wrongness of taking human life by wrongfully taking a human life. Let our “weapons” in the fight to defend the lives of abortion’s tiny victims, be chaste weapons of the Spirit.”
Well said. Two wrongs have never made a right.
Just a few weeks ago a pastor was shot and killed in front of the congregation, now this happened today. It seems even houses of worship are not immune to violence.
What a sick world this is.
I hope Dr. Tiller had a chance to make peace with God before he took his last breath. No one is beyond redemption.
My prayers are with his family.
May whoever murdered Dr. Tiller realize the terrible wrong he did and plead for God’s mercy.
“All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”.
I hope that whoever has murdered Tiller realizes that what he has done has not and will not help the pro-life cause. Violence begets violence.
His Man, agreed!
I still can’t believe he’s dead!
George Tiller..murderer. Man who killed Tiller…murderer.
I used to have elaborate daydreams about his conversion. Now all the secrets that would have been brought to light are taken to the grave.
And to really add insult to injury, I’ve got abortion advocates acting as if I’m secretly all giddy about this.
A man was murdered. If I thought that it was okay to kill people whose presence disturbed you I’d be prochoice. So it’s already sucky that a man was gunned down. In a church, no less.
But it’s somebody who, had he only lived to convert, would have been a mighty warrior for life. And now he’s stone cold dead, a martyr for abortion advocacy.
Not only was a man murdered, but everything I’ve worked so hard for is unravelling.
In what alternative universe would I be happy about this?
Christina, I also had hoped and prayed for his conversion. Countless babies lost their lives, and today George Tiller lost his soul. Gone for eternity.
I guess this means Obama can kiss his common ground goodbye.
I agree with you, too, HisMan. I had such hopes that something good could come of all things, including Tiller’s actions. I’ve read that a suspect is in custody, and hopefully we can all start to respect life enough that nothing like this ever, ever happens again.
Prayers go out tonight to his family…
May God have mercy on his soul.
Murder is always wrong.
My prayer is that the families of both Tiller and his murderer and all pro-choicers realize after this tragic event that having your internal organs ripped apart by a foreign, metal object at the hand of another is a horrible, evil act that shouldn’t be tolerated, accepted or made legal by ANYONE.
This would be a good time to study up on history, folks. What was the social effect of the violent acts of abolitionists who advocated (and practiced) the use of force in defending freed slaves, or in freeing them?
Personally, I’m no more or less mournful about Tiller than I am about anyone else I don’t really know. I haven’t been praying for him as some of you may have been; that creates a
relationship of sorts and so I lack that.
I’m not going to pretend I’m somehow grieving for the guy, though, merely to posture as a “good” pro-lifer. I don’t advocate such acts and his killer needs to be brought to justice.
But anyone who treats pro-lifers as if they’re obliged to display some special kind of sorrow to prove they’re not sympathetic to his murder, can go take a hike. Such folk will seize on Tiller’s death and use it as a stick to beat pro-lifers with. I have no interest in mollifying people like that, however.
Like you, Christina (and many others), I wanted Tiller to end his business in abortion. I just wanted the babies to stop being murdered and the women not to be maimed physically and spiritually.
I grieve that he could not be another Dr. Bernard Nathanson or Dr. Anthony Levatino and speak out AGAINST abortion. http://www.humanlifereview.com/2000_summer/meehan_s2000.php
Prayers for the Tiller Family.
Can anyone open the http://www.dr_tiller.com website?
It had a lot of information about his practices and his political contacts.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-tiller1-2009jun01,0,7068875.story?page=2
They’re calling it an assassination (The Pro Aborts) and as I have predicted, they’re saying its anti abortion violence. *shakes head* The shooter does NOT represent pro lifers.
I bet his victims (the ones who regretted their abortions) would NOT call it an assassination.
The safest place for an unborn baby used to be in his/her mother’s womb. Now its the most dangerous. :(
had enough: we have no right to place judgement upon his soul. We can only HOPE that he repented before his last breath. ONLY GOD knows the state of his soul at the time of his death.
Tiller may have been in church every Sunday, but he was serving a God of his own design. You can’t serve 2 masters. Pick one. One will promise eternal life, and the other will torment your soul forever! I can only hope that his wife and family will find the REAL GOD!
….and if he was able, I pray that he asked for God’s forgivness before his final breath.
I 2nd that Heather.
Mr. Obma was just quoted as saying, “our differences cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence”….
Well, duh….I agree.
So when does legalized abortion end Mr. Obama?
How about right now?
I pray that his 10 grandchildren learn the REAL truth about abortion and do what their grandfather didn’t: help women in crisis pregnancies by providing actual health care, not care that results in the deliberate death of a child.
His name is Scott Roeder. Gateway Paundit has updates. This guy has a record.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/05/tillers-killer-arrested.html
The wisest response would be to refrain from any commentary regarding Tiller’s standing with God. There are things only God knows.
An Open Letter to the Prolife Movement, from a Prolifer
The fatal shooting today of Dr. George Tiller is just plain horrific and wrong.
Absolutely *no* human being deserves to be shot down in cold blood…let alone in a house of worship, which should be a place of safety, peace, and refuge for *all* God’s children who seek it there…no matter what they do for a living and no matter how objectionable we may find their means of livelihood.
*No* human being should usurp that power of life and death over another.
There is *no* justification or extenuating circumstances for this murder of a fellow member of humankind.
May peace and healing come to George Tiller’s loved ones.
Today, and every day, each and every individual and group that identifies with the word “prolife” needs to ask, from a stance of complete humility and openness rather than hard headed and hearted defensive arrogance, questions such as this.
–Have I/we ever said or done anything that demonizes anyone who disagrees with me/us on the issue of abortion?
–Am I/are we willing to humbly learn from prochoicers what they deem to be demonizing words and deeds against them–quite independently of the question of which side is “right” or “wrong” about abortion?
–Have I/we ever failed to challenge anyone who agitates for the killing of abortion providers?
–Have I/we taken a strong, outapoken, unapologetic, unceasing stance against the killing of abortion providers, instead of just saying and hiding behind “well, real prolifers don’t do that, and we’re real prolifers”?
–Have I/we ever said or done anything that even sounds like it gives justification to the homicide of abortion providers, like “well, so few of them have been killed compared to the number of babies they’ve killed”–as if their relative fewness somehow makes their forcibly cut-short lives and their unjust deaths somehow unimportant?
–Have I/we ever taken positive steps to alleviate the causes and sources of violence against abortion providers?
–Have I/we ever reached out to prochoicers and tried to work cooperatively and humbly with them on preventing further violence against abortion providers?
Coming up with ethically robust answers to these questions is literally a matter of life and death.
Chris, that is true, but I can’t help but to see that he attended church every Sunday, yet he killed babies during the week. That can only mean that he was not right with God.
My prayers are with the shooter of Tiller. I hope he is forgiven for the act of passion and the rage that was placed inside him by the likes of Tiller. May God forgive him. And I also pray for the shooters family. I wonder if Tiller had killed or mutilated somebody close to him.
Rasqual:
I feel exactly the same way about Tiller’s murder. I’m not in any way happy that this happened and I definitely do not condone it, but I’m not going to pretend to mourn when I didn’t give Tiller much thought before this happened and therefore can’t honestly claim to be particularly emotional over a stranger’s murder. And I most definitely will ignore any implicit or explicit pressure to work up some crocodile tears to prove that I’m still a good person even though I opposed Tiller’s work. Anyone who exploits Tiller’s murder in a lame attempt to prove that pro-life people are violent is being silly, and I refuse to give that silly argument an iota of credibility by putting on a defensive facade of mourning. I am sorry for anyone’s family who has lost a loved one, and that’s the extent of my feelings on this situation.
You know what? God in heaven already KNOWS when we are going to die, and how we are going to die. The death of Tiller leaves me with an erie feeling. Think about your own life today, as I am my own, and contemplate any areas that need work! Our last breath could be at any given time, just as was George Tillers this morning.
I am in agreement with Rasqual and Janette. The only reason I feel somewhat sad is because of Tiller’s reprobate mind and heartlessness. Eternity is an awful long time to be cast into the lake of fire.
My sorrow is with the post abortive moms and dads. My sorrow is with the dead babies tossed into the ovens like garbage. The life that God designed……tossed out by Tiller and company like garbage.
Posted by: heather at May 31, 2009 8:18 PM
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Eternity is the absence of time.
So horrified by this. May peace be with his widow, four children and ten grandchildren. I have never in my life been so committed to the pro-choice cause as I am at this moment.
how exactly can we expect these types of incidents not to happen when abortionists around the country are murdering thousands of unborn babies? Although I do not condone these actions, I’m surprized it doesn’t happen more often.
Chris, that is true, but I can’t help but to see that he attended church every Sunday, yet he killed babies during the week. That can only mean that he was not right with God.
Posted by: heather at May 31, 2009 8:07 PM
yes I agree Heather. That is why we must pray for his soul.
I too had hoped that someday he would be another Bernard Nathanson.
They are saying that Roeder belonged to The Freeman’s – a radical antigovernment group. I wonder if this is an anarchist group dedicated to causing lots of problems.
No matter what happens the liberal media will tar and feather ALL prolifers with this one. This was just what they were waiting for.
The responsible thing for the media to do would be to stop with the strident left wing rhetoric and report this situation as it really is. They know that prolifers do not and have never ever supported violence. We support changing society about abortion through education and other nonviolent means.
angel, me too. God bless abortionists who became PL!
So horrified by this. May peace be with his widow, four children and ten grandchildren. I have never in my life been so committed to the pro-choice cause as I am at this moment.
Posted by: AM at May 31, 2009 8:23 PM
But just the ones that weren’t killed in a clinic, right AM?
Marysia,
While I believe your sentiments are in good faith, the pro-life movement is not responsible for Tiller’s murder and I feel no need to take any self-inventory. It is not on my shoulders to prevent criminal behavior that I am in no way involved with nor have ever advocated for or even heard anyone advocate for. The pro-life position is very mainstream and I see no reason for almost half the country to take any semblance of responsibility for something they were not involved in. Abortion is a highly controversial issue and is not unusual for the debate to get very heated, but heated debates do not spawn criminal behavior. I realize you are trying to be nice and make amends over Tiller’s murder, but we cannot make amends for something we did not even want to happen.
how exactly can we expect these types of incidents not to happen when abortionists around the country are murdering thousands of unborn babies?
Anyone who claims to be pro-life based on the sanctity of life or based on principles of justice and human rights should be expected to uphold those principles himself. Today’s murder wasn’t only unjust, it was as hypocritical as you can get from a pro-life viewpoint. That’s how I see it anyway. We should be able to expect that we live up to the very standards we claim to be fighting for.
jasper, I agree. Especially in the most BRUTAL fashion that Tiller chose. Remember when he inserted the Digoxin injection into the baby’s skull instead of her heart? Remember how he killed Christen Gilbert after performing her abortion, yet he offered no apologies?
***VIDEO – Fr. Frank Pavone comments on the killing of abortionist George Tiller***
http://www.priestsforlife.org/
Just…in…shock…
Chris, that is true, but I can’t help but to see that he attended church every Sunday, yet he killed babies during the week. That can only mean that he was not right with God.
Posted by: heather at May 31, 2009 8:07 PM
That is my feeling also. Attending a church does not prove someone is a Christian, but how could he do what he did and not feel convicted that it was wrong?
Marysia:
I am going to edit your post substituting the murder of five year olds instead of abortion to show you how absolutely ridiculous it is.
You must ask yourself these questions, “Am I truly pro-life and do I believe that abortion is murder”.
Here goes:
“–Have I/we ever said or done anything that demonizes anyone who disagrees with me/us on the issue of murdering five year olds?
–Am I/are we willing to humbly learn from those that advocate the choice to murder five year olds what they deem to be demonizing words and deeds against them–quite independently of the question of which side is “right” or “wrong” about murdering five year olds?
–Have I/we ever failed to challenge anyone who agitates for the killing of those that would murder five year olds?
–Have I/we taken a strong, outapoken, unapologetic, unceasing stance against the killing of those that would murder five year olds, instead of just saying and hiding behind “well, real prolifers don’t do that, and we’re real prolifers”?
–Have I/we ever said or done anything that even sounds like it gives justification to the homicide of those that murder five year olds, like “well, so few of them have been killed compared to the number of babies they’ve killed”–as if their relative fewness somehow makes their forcibly cut-short lives and their unjust deaths somehow unimportant?
–Have I/we ever taken positive steps to alleviate the causes and sources of violence against those that murder five years olds?
–Have I/we ever reached out to those that advocte the murder of five year olds and tried to work cooperatively and humbly with them on preventing further violence against those that murder five year olds?
Coming up with ethically robust answers to these questions is literally a matter of life and death.”
Posted by: Marysia at May 31, 2009 8:06 PM and edited by Hisman to prove a point…..
So, Marysia:
While I don’t advocate the murder of anyone, including abortionists, if we truly believed that killing unborn children was murder, i.e., the same as killing five year olds, I think in the least, the way we would deal with the matter would be totally different. I.e., I think we would expect the authorities to stop these killers of five year olds, try them and mete out justice. The state has the God given mandate to do this, however, we as individuals do not have the right to mete out this justice. We can, however, in a democracy, founded on Godly principles, bring grievance to injustice which abortion is.
This too, think of your five year old child or your five year old grandchild or the five year old neighbor down the street as being no different than the child in your womb, your child’s womb or your neighbor’s womb and then tell me where I’m missing the boat.
But, but, but, but……..
So horrified by this. May peace be with his widow, four children and ten grandchildren. I have never in my life been so committed to the pro-choice cause as I am at this moment.
Posted by: AM at May 31, 2009 8:23 PM
Pro-choice to what AM? Pro-choice to kill? I don’t get it.
“jasper, I agree. Especially in the most BRUTAL fashion that Tiller chose. Remember when he inserted the Digoxin injection into the baby’s skull instead of her heart? Remember how he killed Christen Gilbert after performing her abortion, yet he offered no apologies?”
Exactly Heather.
The last time I checked the word of god it said, “Thou shalt not kill. However, I ask the question, Was this the judgment of God? While we might not know on this side of eturnity, We know that the bible says that we should not say tommarow we will do this or that. This morning George Tiller woke this morning making plans for the week ahead. He had know idea he’d have to meet his appointment, we must all make unless the rapture happens. We’re all going to have to face death. Are you shure, that if you were to take your final breath, you would inter the presence of the fother? RJ
Yes, truthseeker, that’s the only “good” that’s coming out of this horrible event. Unfortunately, I am sure his “Friend” Leroy Carhart (Bellevue, Nebraska abortionist) will be glad to perform the abortions in Wichita, since he sees nothing wrong with killing babies that are viable and healthy. In fact, I think it was actually Carhart on staff the day that Christin Gilbert died.
Oh yes, I will surely grieve for this person’s loss by the world…in exactly the same way I would grieve for anyone else who killed thousands of innocent young people in their lifetime and evaded justice countless times. Oh yeah…I’m reeeeeally sad, boy howdy, am I one sad panda.
Liz, it was Carhart.
That is my feeling also. Attending a church does not prove someone is a Christian, but how could he do what he did and not feel convicted that it was wrong?
Posted by: Joanne at May 31, 2009 8:38 PM
this is something I am struggling to understand too Joanne.
The other thing is that as a Catholic, I can’t imagine the spiritual outcome of this for Tiller.
I mean this man was aborting babies that were 24, 28 weeks.
angel, I had heard that some were perfomed close to a woman’s due date.
8-9 months of pregnancy.
I’m not a fan of Fr. Pavone’s statement. It seems strangely… lacking.
The shooter could have been a post abortive father or grandfather, but abortion doesn’t harm anyone emotionally. Couldn’t be.
angel, I had heard that some were perfomed close to a woman’s due date.
Posted by: heather at May 31, 2009 8:59 PM
good grief! I don’t even want to know.
I believe that Carhart and Tiller were no strangers to PBA!
I abhor ANY acts of violence and murder inside the womb and outside the womb. The Bible says “There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end is destruction”. How ironic that one who used the tools of death everyday to end the lives of the most innocent form of human life, dies in a church “a house of worship”, that he regularly attended. A place that should have been the most peaceful place becomes a place of violence and death and a mother’s womb which should be the most safe, peaceful, protected and non-violent place for innocent unborn babies became by this man’s hand the most dangerous and violent place where they were mutilated, ripped apart and murdered. Talk about schizophrenic. We are to mourn Tiller’s loss of life, people like PP are already eulogizing him for performing death sentences on the unborn because it is a so-called woman’s “right to choose” and “reproductive health”. God help this nation and this sick world where we call wrong right and right wrong. If violence and killing is wrong then it is wrong for the innocent unborn and for Mr. Tiller, the abortionist as well. I do hope he called out for God’s mercy before he died.
We pro-lifers hate violence and killing “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal”.
PRO-LIFERS BE ON ALERT, (especially you on the frontlines) WATCH WHAT YOU SAY BECAUSE THE PRO-ABORTS WILL TRY TO TWIST WHAT YOU SAY FOR THEIR PURPOSES. What did Rahm Emanuel say “Never let a good crisis go to waste”. They will try to use this to demonize pro-lifers, be careful Jill and staff. I am praying for you.
“I’m not a fan of Fr. Pavone’s statement. It seems strangely… lacking.”
why Angel?
Think back to the time of John Brown, extremist abolitionist. Did he not do heneous things? Did he not slaugher whole families in their own homes? Did he not forment an armed rebellion against his own country?
And yet, none of his actions made slavery any more acceptable, did it?
And whoever the killer of George Tiller was, his violent actions do not make abortion one tiny bit more morally acceptable, IMHO.
woooowwwww! Did anyone else notice that during Pavone’s speech when he said (right after point #2)
“while we do not tolerate violence against abortionists”…..
his head was nodding “yes”.
Interesting….
I mean this man was aborting babies that were 24, 28 weeks.
Posted by: angel at May 31, 2009 8:58 PM
Tiller admitted aborting babies that were at the due date. If that isn’t killing I dont know what is.
And aborting for NON medical reasons like Rock Concert or Wanting to go surfing or something….
“Anyone who claims to be pro-life based on the sanctity of life or based on principles of justice and human rights should be expected to uphold those principles himself. Today’s murder wasn’t only unjust, it was as hypocritical as you can get from a pro-life viewpoint. That’s how I see it anyway. We should be able to expect that we live up to the very standards we claim to be fighting for.”
Posted by: Fed Up at May 31, 2009 8:33 PM
Amen.
* * * *
Marie @ 9:15,
If you watched all of the video, you’d notice Fr. Pavone’s head nod is part of his speaking style. I don’t think you should try to read into it what isn’t there.
This is so wrong. I am shocked and I am so truly sad. As a pro-lifer I am horrified by this and as a Catholic I am praying for his soul.
I agree Janet.
Marie @ 9:15,
If you watched all of the video, you’d notice Fr. Pavone’s head nod is part of his speaking style. I don’t think you should try to read into it what isn’t there.
Posted by: Janet at May 31, 2009 9:31 PM
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Agreed, Janet. Marie, it really does you no good to imply that a priest is nodding in approval at the death of a human being. It just makes you look extremely paranoid.
Scott Roeder has been identified with Operation Rescue and Randall Terry. Surprise, surprise.
oh hush up, Bystander. They said he was affiliated with an anti government group called the Freemen.
Kelly, your defense of abortion rights is simply wrong. If you truly cared about defending women’s rights which seems to be the real reason for your passion, you would be more concerned about at least the one half of aborted babies which are well, women.
You see Kelly, the lie you have bought into is that the power structure that promotes, sells, and profits from abortion actually cares about the woman they supposedly serve. The fact is they don’t don’t because they are killing their own future which by any standard of logic is insane.
And here’s a paradox: Barack Obama, the supposedly first black President, supports a procedure which murders a vast number of his own claimed race. If he was truly the champion of black people you would think he would be the most pro-life person on the planet.
The truth is legal abortion is not about rights, it’s about power. And power is always about money. If you really understood scripture you would know how Christ was tempted on the mountain by Satan with power, prestige, and money. Jesus’ retorts always were, “it is written” referring to God’s Word, not “my denomination says”…..
Kelly, truly, here’s what abortion is:
Abortion is an affront to the creative nature of God, it negates God as Creator,
Abortion denies the power of God to right a wrong, it negates God as Redeemer,
Abortion makes that which is good, the birth of human life, into that which is evil, the death of human life, and then calls it good, the very definition of blasphemy,
Abortion negates the resurrection power of God as it takes flesh that is alive in it’s earthly abode (the womb) and kills it, while God takes that flesh which is dead in it’s earthly abode (the grave) and desires to make it alive,
Abortion’s desire is to take that which was composed from the chaotic array of elemental molecules into a symphony of life infused with an eternal soul, and turn it back to the entropy of randomness, chaos, nothingness, uselessness.
Abortion is against all that is hopeful, all that requires faith for success; for it’s solution; annihilation, it’s goal; death, it’s dream; breaking God’s heart, it’s vision, Satan’s ultimate power.
Abortion is a counterfeit, for the claw prints of Satan are everywhere to be found in its performance;
Abortion disguises hate as love, bondage as freedom, choice as maturity, sin as righteousness, political correctness as wisdom,
Abortion pits men against women, mothers against their children, fathers against God, Yes, abortion is Satan’s feeble attempt at killing God Himself, for abortion is a metaphor for Satan; it is his coat of arms, his family crest, his logo, his brand, it belongs to him……for he laughs at its willing proponents as they craft their own self-destruction, mantled in self-deception.
Copyright 2007, 2008, 2009 by HisMan
“I am stunned by this lawless and violent act, which must be condemned and should be met with the full force of law,” Kline said in a written statement. “We join in lifting prayer that God’s grace and presence rest with Dr. Tiller’s family and friends.”
nope, Janet. At 3:02 he said “there’s no 2 ways about it”, 3:12 “won’t be able to escape the conclusion” have a definite movement of the head, in agreement with his “no” statements.
The same head movement can be found at approx. 3:20 when he said “which we object to”, which is incosistent with his statement. If he agreed to objecting to it, his head would nod in the “yes” fashion. His head movements are inconsistent with his statements.
Just a simple observation.
Liz, I don’t think anyone will be able to “hush up” this murder investigation. The truth will come out, and those who committed and were accessories to the crime will be charged.
When the little Amish girls were murdered by a man in their school. The Amish church was given a lot of money to support their bills. The amish reached out to the family of the killer. They gave them like a forth of the money. Will pro life and pro abortion express concern for the murereror’s family? Will they forgive the killer’s family. will Planned parenthood reach out to the killers family?
Bystander 9:40PM
Do you have a source for this? Try as I might I can’t find anything on him.
Quick, Marie, put on your tin foil hat! The aliens from the Land of Nod want to send you a message…
Well, if they want to place the guilt on all pro-lifers, looks like they now wish to blame the majority of Americans.
A church with “a sacrament of abortion” and worships Moloch – NOT the God of creation of His own made in His image and likeness. God is not mocked.
Hi Mary@10:10PM,
Salon.com is reporting that he left a comment on OR’s web site. Also that he is believed to have been part of a militia.
Marie 10:02PM
Simple??
Xppc, no, I expect that PP will use this to ask for further donations. The Daily Kos is already suggesting this.
The article I read said that the shooter had been on the FBI’s radar for 13 years. From all descriptions, he sounds like an anarchist nutcase.
Hi Fed Up. 10:19PM
Thank you. So this proves his connection to “Operation Rescue”, which vehemently condemned the killing, and Randall Terry or is there something else??
I’ve read of his criminal record and his membership in a militia group. He didn’t pay his taxes. I suppose this means all people who haven’t paid their taxes support the shooting of George Tiller.
Bystander,
Respect all people, not use their deaths as an opportunity to be smug. What one radical does ought not to come back at all who disagree with that radical’s actions.
Why can’t you, for once, own a heart and realize that this moment is a time for both pro-life activists and pro-choice activists to put aside differences and recognize the need for anti-violence measures? You don’t need to take this moment as a chance to make an insult or further yourself.
This isn’t about you. This is about advancing non-violent measures.
Well, this is what Janet Napolitano needed to re-issue her letter that pro-lifers are terrorists.
Hah, that’s egg off her face now and on Obama’s.
Has anyone looked into Jano’s connection to the whack job? I mean she could have hired him to do this to make Obama look bad.
I mean when she was guv of Arizona she would step on anyone to get ahead.
I think Jano’s behind this because she wants to be President. I think she’s going to announce now about her 2012 run.
What, this sounds ridiculous? Yep, you’re right, it does doesn’t it?
“So horrified by this. May peace be with his widow, four children and ten grandchildren. I have never in my life been so committed to the pro-choice cause as I am at this moment.” — AM
So whenever an abortionist is killed, pro-choice folk rightly get really committed? OK, then let’s apply a categorical imperative to your ethic of committedness: pro-lifers get really committed every time an unborn child is killed.
Geez, you choice folks are veritable slackers in the committedness dept., aren’t ye?
“The truth is legal abortion is not about rights, it’s about power….it is [Satan’s] coat of arms.” — HisMan
Wow. “Coat of arms” — frightfully well said. And yeah — abortion is rape of the soul: not an organic sexual act between co-creators of life, but an inorganic invasion that violently sucks life from a place designed for its protection and nurture.
Marie: The guy simply has an emphatic mannerism. Reading something into that is just weird.
So horrified by this. May peace be with his widow, four children and ten grandchildren. I have never in my life been so committed to the pro-choice cause as I am at this moment.
Posted by: AM at May 31, 2009 8:23 PM
-Ditto. My one and only comment on this situation.
Vannah:
Unfortunately, Tiller’s murder is something we probably all can’t find any common ground on except that the murder of any human being, born and unborn, is wrong.
or is there something else
The comment on the OR site is all I’ve seen so far with respect to an OR link, Mary.
Thank you FedUp
I’m still waiting for Bystander’s source. I’m sure you would be interested in it as well.
I doubt Bystander has a legitimate source. Remember, when abortionists have been killed in the past, they automatically assume its a PRO LIFE person that killed the person.
For example: Lets say that Timothy McVeigh had posted a comment on operation rescue’s website (if it existed at the time) a week before the Oklahoma City bombing, then there would be certain persons that would try to make a link between peaceful non violent pro lifers with those who blow up government buildings.
Liz 11:02PM
Remember how they tried to blame talk radio, i.e. Rush Limbaugh for the bombings?
Of course no one took the time to determine first if McVeigh even listened to talk radio.
Why let facts get in the way of stupid ideas?
Tiller was quoted as saying “Doing abortions is worth going to hell for”.
His words.
Mary @ 11:14: Nope, I don’t……I don’t think I paid much attention to anything regarding the “blame”. It happened when I was in high school. I do remember the date, though: April 19, 1995.
here ya go Bystander:
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/inauguration/story/932052.html
I don’t want to preach and I don’t want to get involved in a debate or argument–I have been avoiding this website lately because of how negative people can be and how angry people can get. I don’t want my life to be affected in an adverse way because of it.
When I had heard George Tiller had been murdered, though, I was curious to see what the reaction on this web site would be.
To be quite frank, when I heard that Tiller had been killed, I felt embarrassed on the pro-lifers’ behalf, though I cannot give myself that label. Of course 99.9% of you don’t want your cause to be represented by murders/killings/assassinations, whatever you want to call it. I felt sorry because I knew that some people were going to jump all over pro-lifers and try and demean you and your cause because of one messed up individual who represent a tiny, tiny portion of pro-lifers.
I know this isn’t about me, but I just wanted to take a small opportunity now to very humbly request: when you see the Taliban on the news committing atrocities against innocent women and children and taking advantage of young men from impoverished families and situations… please do not associate that with Islam. 99.9% of Muslims don’t want people like that around and we are embarrassed by them.
Like I said, I don’t mean to be preaching, but if you could just keep that in the back of your mind. I know that pro-lifers have only the BEST intentions in what they do. And Muslims only want to live in peace and be good and pious people.
Thank you. May God bless you all.
-Leah
Tiller was quoted as saying “Doing abortions is worth going to hell for”.
His words.
Posted by: Mike at May 31, 2009 11:26 PM
Good grief…. he actually said that!
How ironic he was killed in a church of all places. However I know Tiller had bullet proof windows at his mill and I think had body guards. Obviously he felt a church was the last place this would happen.
Lean…. thanks for a thoughtful post. I think there is a lot of truth in what you said.
Leah, thank you for that thoughtful post.
here ya go Bystander:
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/inauguration/story/932052.html
Posted by: friend at May 31, 2009 11:35 PM
*************************************
Wow, isn’t that interesting? The guy posted on a message board! Does that mean that anytime one posts on a comment or message board that one is good buddies with those who run the site and those in leadership of that organization?
Neat! I comment on some fan sites for movies and things like that. That must mean the producers, directors, actors, and web administrators personally know me and call me their friend! I’m more popular than I thought… ;)
God bless you too, Leah. Thanks for your post.
I thought about Islam today, Leah. Thank you for your words. They sum up the reality of this cirumstance: when a group of people are singled out to be the enemy, then even one person can come to “represent” all people.
But the radicals represent virtually no one in the religion- Islam was never meant to be violent, just as Christianity wasn’t, either.
And I believe by your words that you are a peaceful soul, and there are Muslims are over the world working towards peace- I’ve met one and listened to another speak. Terrorism is the enemy, not Islam: just as fringe violence is the enemy in pro-life circles (sigh), not pro-life or its meaning.
:D!
Let’s see. The article says Roeder was a member of an anti-government group and a staunch opponent of abortion as well as of our gov’t.
He has a red rose on his rear window which may symbolize prolife. He considered killing abortion doctors justifiable homicide.
He also preached conspiracy theories and taught how to remove a magnetic strip from a five dollar bill to keep the gov’t from tracking our money.
He was a member of “Freemen” who claim sovereignity from gov’t jurisdiction and operated under their own laws. They considered themselves exempt from laws, regulations, and taxes and filed liens against judges, prosecutors, and others claiming compensation was owed them.
He was arrested when ammunition, a blasting cap, a fuse cord, gunpowder, batteries and a switch were found to power a bomb.
He got probation and was ordered to disassociate himself from anti government groups (not pro life?) that advocate violence.
He is described as being fanatically anti abortion, as well as fanatical about a lot of things and potentially very dangerous.
He posted on a site sponsored by Operation Rescue that Tiller needed to be stopped. He said nothing about killing him. Also the OR post itself said nothing about killing Tiller.
So it sounds like we have a run of the mill fanatical nutjob who is fanatical about a number of things, abortion only being one of them, potentially very dangerous, and who’s association with PL people seems fringe and minimal at best. He considers himself excempt from our nation’s laws. He is not a member of any PL group and never was. He posted a couple times on OR sites, none of which said anything about killing.
This is proof of Roeder’s association with the PL movement and Operation Rescue?
Hi Leah,
Its so nice to see you and I hope all is well with you and your new husband.
I have stated on this blog that terrorists do not represent Muslims and that the majority of Muslims are law abiding, patriotic people of sincere religious conviction.
My opinion has never wavered and will not.
I’ve found an unused sympathy card while cleaning yesterday and am considering sending my condolescenses to the Tiller family for their loss of a family member and to renounce the violence which has occured, my condolences would be sincere and now would be a good time for pro-lifers to extend compassion and love to family which has probably only know fear and hate of us.
Also, I was just thinking that I wouldn’t be surprised if this discussion were to reach at least 500 comments in the next couple of days in light of what has occured, the discussions will be interesting.
All I can say is the whole thing is unfortunate…had a jury convicted him this senseless crime would not have happened…I only wish that when he was tried for illegally performing late term abortions they would have at least punished him by closing his practice and at the very least not allowing him to perform any more abortions.
May God have mercy on his soul, but never stop fighting for the rights of the innocent who are taken from their mothers womb in such a violent manner.
HisMan writes:
–I am going to edit your post substituting the murder of five year olds instead of abortion to show you how absolutely ridiculous it is.
You must ask yourself these questions, “Am I truly pro-life and do I believe that abortion is murder”.—
HisMan–So you question whether I am “truly prolife.”
I’m sure that I personally have not done absolutely everything I could have to protect and foster human lives. But you may want to know the following things, and consider whether they indicate a lack of commitment or not.
I went through the unplanned pregnancy from hell to give my daughter life…Does that count as “truly prolife”?
And helped her and my grandchild in their own hour of great need–or, rather, nine months of a difficult unplanned pregnancy and three months in the baby ICU…Does that count as “truly prolife”?
And I have spent almost all my adult life advocating passionately for women’s nonviolent choices/alternatives to abortion, thank you very much again, for all lives before, during, and after birth…Does that count as “truly prolife”?
And every question that I believe prolifers must ask of themselves about whether they have the least shred of complicity in a climate of violence–I think the same self-scrutiny applies to activists in the peace movement or *any* movement that seeks to challenge violence.
That’s what the expression “be the change you seek” is all about. And I don’t exempt myself from this process of self-scrutiny.
it’s not about the nature of the particular deeds we oppose as violence–it’s about whether we ourselves have *any* possible role, even if “only” in thought and word, which can still be quite harmful–in actually promoting the very thing we profess to abhor. awful as this prospect can be to contemplate.
*every* life matters. that’s not what i’m questioning, not at all.
Looks like Obama Administration and Napolitano have already started to put into action their policy of “never letting a crisis go to waste”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/31/pro-life-groups-fear-backlash-tiller-murder/
…and so the persecution begins in earnest.
I wonder what symbol we pro-lifers will be forced to wear on our lapels?
…Precious feet pins? Nah, too factual and informative, might convert some folks to pro-life, my guess is that these will be outlawed at some point in the near future
…picture of a baby inside a red circle with a line through it…nah, too “in-your-face”
…I GOT IT! pictures of little coathangers!
I’m making mine right now out of red felt.
Get ready PLers, this is going to be a bumpy ride.
Could you ever imagine the Feds setting up protection for corporate executives whose lives are being threatened every day for simply accepting contractually obligated bonus and deferred compensation payments?
Instead, they actually BUS IN paid thugs from ACORN to harass and intimidate them at their private homes. So, next time a financial advisor or a corporate CEO is gunned down, which has happened way more than the killing of abortionists, are the Feds going to mobilize to “protect” them?
Emma, if “all about you” is referring to my being a post-abortive mother lied to, manipulated, and damaged by greedy abortion profiteers, then, yes, it IS about me and my three dead babies.
And, Emma, what exactly is YOUR impetus for being here and commenting on this news?
Intellectual, part of academia, Obama drone, proud abortionist, or post-abortive mother with “no regrets”?
The man who shot George Tiller is a murderer, as well as a self-righteous hypocrite and coward. George Tiller was not a murderer. Abortion is NOT murder.
Late term abortions are extremely rare and done because of serious medical problems and complications during a small number of pregnancies. The is no such thing as “Partial birth abortion”. This is just a nasty-sounding term invented by the anti-choice movement. It’s not even a recognized or established medical term.
To compare abortion to slavery is not only totally disingenuous but ludicrous.
The REAL slavery is when poor,unwanted children are born and doomed to lives of abject poverty, hunger, abuse and neglect.
Robert;
Oh, you mean children born out of wedlock, abandoned by their father and mother, raised by grandparents? Kind of like Barack Obama, or, myself, for instance, conceived out of wedlock to a 16 yo mother? Tell that to my two little boys; that the fact that I, their mother, should never have been born.
Speaking from experience, I would have to object to your denouncing of my life as a “tragedy”.
correction: meant to type “slavery”. I’m quite free, but thanks for your concern.
I see many, many parallels between the man who killed Tiller and John Brown. I think the two men’s actions were quite similar in nature, and the reaction of abolitionists and prolfers to the killing(s) has been quite similar also.
Do we now blame abolitionists of the day for John Brown’s actions? Only a totally stupid person would say that we do.
“The REAL slavery is when poor,unwanted children are born and doomed to lives of abject poverty, hunger, abuse and neglect.”
Robert,
Do you have proof that 50 MILLION aborted children would have suffered such a doomed life in the USA? I don’t think so.
* * * *
Michelle,
Thank you.
“The REAL slavery is when poor,unwanted children are born and doomed to lives of abject poverty, hunger, abuse and neglect.
Posted by: Robert Berger at June 1, 2009 9:20 AM”
_________________________________
There ya go again RB.
Do you really think about what you write?
I mean, in the world, I think propbaly 50 per cent of children are born into poverty, hunger, abuse and neglect.
And your solution is to kill them all?
That is beyond sick.
I don’t think God would agree with you either.
If you’re so concerned about these children why don’t you go join the Peace Corp or World Vision? What’s that about your finger nail? Oh, you might break one?
Marysia;
Please answer the thrust of my post which is, how is abortion any different than the murder of a five year old and would your pious remarks be any different?
“The man who shot George Tiller is a murderer, as well as a self-righteous hypocrite and coward.” Robert Berger
Wow. We agree on something!! :)
We already have an enormous number of poor children in America who are growing up without good nutrition, decent housing, good education, and who are surrounded by crime and violence.Is this a good way to grow up?
No,I’m not saying that we should abort all children who might be poor. What I’m saying is that unless we do more to decrease poverty, improve education, and more to help poor women who are pregnant, we’re not going to decrease abortions,let alone eliminate them.
And if abortion ever becomes illegal again in America, it won’t have the beneficial effect on society that you anti-choice people think it will have, especially if we have republican presidents and administrations which fail to help the poor, the results will be catastrophic for America. Poverty,unemployment and crime will only increase, and abortion will still be rampant, and many women will either die or be seriously and permanently harmed.
Tiller may be dead, but more abortion providers will still take his place,legal or illegal. You can’t and won’t stop this.
Luckily there are hardly any self-righteous hypocrites on this site.
Robert:
I guess it’s just gonna take a few years of Obama to see how wrong you are about well, most everything.
And yes, you have said and did say that you think abortion is an act of mercy. You are very consistent on this.
And we will never have enough money to do what you think is the solution. People are always going to screw up, mismanage their money, have illicit and irresponsible sex, etc.
However, abortion as a solution is never the answer, never, just as the murder of Dr. Tiller was not the answer.
Jesus Christ is the answer and since you reject Him your fate is sealed because there is no other answer to the world’s problems.
Hi everybody,
I figured Tiller’s death would be big news around here…
Hope you all are doing well.
Doug
“So horrified by this. May peace be with his widow, four children and ten grandchildren. I have never in my life been so committed to the pro-choice cause as I am at this moment.
Posted by: AM at May 31, 2009 8:23 PM
-Ditto. My one and only comment on this situation.
Posted by: Danielle at May 31, 2009 10:37 PM
How sad that the response to killing is more killing.
Hey, Doug.
This “tragedy” involving Tiller came about directly as a result of the US government not bringing about justice earlier as is their primary duty.
We can’t lose sight of this fact.
The man ‘made a killing’ destroying the lives of utterly defenseless babies — by his own admission 50 THOUSAND (!) of them. The blood of 50,000 innocents on his hands. My grief is for those whose lives were deliberately and wantonly taken from them in the most agonizing and cruel ways. Full-term, healthy, precious babies who were called into life by God. Barbaric! And he himself had children and grandchildren! And his wife: I wonder if she said to her husband, as other wives do when he came home from work, “did your day go well today, dear?” He was a murderer pure and simple. No other way to spin it!
HisMan writes:
–Please answer the thrust of my post which is, how is abortion any different than the murder of a five year old and would your pious remarks be any different?–
Look, you suggested I was lacking in prolife commitment. Can you kindly please grasp why a woman who has lived my particular life story might quite fairly object to such a characterization?
And I have every right to stand up for myself.
Rumor has it in some quarters of this US of A that women are supposed to stay quiet–but that’s not exactly what God gave me my big voice for.
And I thought I answered your question, by saying that every life matters. Born or unborn.
Different types of killing do pose different though quite overlapping political and ethical and spiritual questions.
But when it comes right down to it: it’s wrong to rob *anyone* born or unborn of their life.
I also oppose the policies of the US government which have killed many little five year old children, not to mention pregnant women and their babies, through the war in Iraq.
But as wrong as those acts of life taking are, what would be the point of, say, villifying and spitting at people in the armed forces? Waterboarding Dick Cheney 183 times? Bombing a recruiting center?
All of those acts would be violence, too. And violence and retaliation are not exactly the beating of swords into plowshares.
I think anyone who is an activist against the war needs also to scrutinize themselves continuously with the same kinds of questions I pose to prolifers.
Because when you take a stand against a particular act of violence, there is often an enormous temptation to lose focus on challenging the *deed* and going after the *doer* instead.
keeping the two separate can be tricky. but it’s a necessary work.
and a most difficult one…anyone who believes peacemaking is for wimps…seriously, please guess again!!
Hi Carla!
Just stopped in after seeing that Tiller got killed.
You know, it didn’t surprise me at all.
My wife and I are off to Hawaii on Thursday for a vacation, at work I’m still busy as heck (note the choice of words there) we’re moving my wife into the city of Atlanta (after living somewhat to the southwest)tomorrow and life is busy and good, and, as I told Bethany on a later thread, you are one of my *all-time favorite people*!
*Smooch,* sweetheart – for any and all differences we have, you always impressed the crap out of me with your honesty.
Doug
Doug,
I have missed you!!! I am glad that you are well and busy as heck!!
I want you to remember something…when the media is talking about prolifers in the most disgusting terms and with the most heinous motives…I want you to remember Carla, Bethany, MK, Bobby, Chris, Mary, Jill, Carder etc. etc. etc. The media is talking about US!!
I am so sorry that Tiller was murdered in cold blood in his church in front of his family and friends. It makes me sick to think about. The man who did this is no prolifer. I had nothing to do with it.
I hope you will stop by again Doug. You are one of my faves too!! ((((HUGS))))
Hello again, Doug!!
You can always find me here
http://www.fourby40.blogspot.com
or here
http://outcrywisconsin.blogspot.com
or HERE!!! :)
Hi Doug, still in Ohio?? Nice to see you.
My favorite PCer here is Erin. I like midnite too. Where is she?
George Tiller is before the Lord and will have to look into the eyes of the children he has murdered and answer to God for it. Not a pleasent end to a wasted life.
Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
I will pray for the souls of his family that the Lord will enlighten their minds and give peace to their hearts –