“Fetus” flushed like fish
This is a strange story. I just called the Mesa, AZ, Police Public Relations Dept., and it is what it is. I was told there is a “procedural” investigation ongoing.
While I’m sure there is protocol for removing dead human bodies from crime scenes, there is apparently a disconnect when it comes to removing premature human baby bodies. Stories about this incident called the baby a “fetus,” but actually s/he was not. Once a baby is born, no matter what gestational age, s/he may be called any number of terms – baby, neonate, infant, newborn, child – but “fetus” is no longer an option.
So officers inexplicably decided to flush this baby – evidence if nothing else – down the toilet. My first thought was the baby had been medically aborted, another reason to retain the body, because this likely would have been an illegal abortion.
If nothing else – if there were no ulterior motives for literally flushing the evidence – then this shows utter callousness regarding the humanity of very young children.
From the Associated Press, June 4…
Four officers responded to a call of a possible miscarriage Monday at the Motel 6 in Mesa where they arrested a man on suspicion of drug-related offenses and discovered a woman in the room apparently had miscarried a 4-inch fetus that was an estimated 12 to 14 weeks old, according to Gascón.
Although both Mesa fire and police were present in the motel room, Lt. Lynn Young told the officers and fire personnel over the phone not to take the fetus but to flush it down the toilet….
A supervisor who was reading incident reports at the Dobson District station first came across details about the disposal of the fetus….
Police said Young was placed on paid administrative leave along with the other 3 officers who responded to the call involving the miscarriage — Kristen Johnson, Robert Buquo and Glenn Pearson, who was the lead officer in the case.
From the Arizona Republic:
Gascón said there was some confusion among police and fire officials as to what to do with the fetus, which was wrapped in a paper towel. Eventually an officer opted to flush it down the toilet.
And from Tribune.com:
Photos were taken of the fetus, but the room and sheets at the motel were cleaned, eliminating the possibility of any further evidence to be examined….
Using medical terms provided to them, Gascón was quick to say that it was a fetus and not a baby that was flushed down the toilet, and under normal circumstances, the fetus would need to be transported to a hospital to be examined by a medical examiner.
Assistant Mesa Fire Chief Dan Stubbs… said, “there is no standard protocol for such a call.”
And from KTAR:
“What occurred here, I have never seen in my entire career,” Gascon said.
He said when officers who encounter miscarriages or abortions performed in back rooms, “Generally, either the fetus is transported to the hospital or it becomes a case for the medical examiner.”
[HT: Mary Ellen F.]



Very weird story. I’ll be interested in seeing more details come to light.
Curious. Sounds like major confusion in the room. Wonder if the woman was present.
I didn’t realize (or I could be wrong) that the remains of a miscarriage needed to be analyzed. That hasn’t happened for any friends I know of that have miscarried. So I guess my response is, if you didn’t have to examine it AND the woman was present and was asked, I don’t see why the flushing was an issue.
If those two points are not true, then perhaps there’s a story.
Danielle,
I’m wondering what the woman’s reaction was to the flushing incident. All that’s mentioned about her is that she was taken to the hospital. I don’t know what the rules of evidence are, but when in doubt, I’d say don’t flush it.
Danielle, if at all possible the remains are supposed to be analyzed. Obviously this isn’t possible at times, but it helps the doctors determine exactly what happened if you are able to have the child examined after the miscarriage.
This is especially true after a late term miscarriage. I’m not sure the laws regarding burial of a child who miscarries in the 2nd trimester. I know that there have been cases where women have been charged with improper treatment of a corpse after they kept the child’s body in a freezer after the miscarriage.
Just morbid…however it’s not unusual for women who have a miscarriage or medical abortion in the first trimester or early second trimester to flush the embryo/fetus when other plans aren’t made & I don’t see why the police department would need to keep it unless it’s evidence of the crime. Here’s what I don’t understand, were the police called because the woman needed medical attention for her miscarriage or because…
My first miscarriage I was cramping and on my way to the hospital to have an ultrasound. Before I went in I had passed a lot of blood and went to the restroom where I unknowingly passed the baby also. When I went in for the ultrasound the baby was already gone and I felt terrible.
I followed with 4 miscarriages where I was advised to bring the baby to the hospital. It was for pathology to examine to help determine the cause. Although I hated having to do this with my baby, the thought of being advised to flush the baby down the toilet is horrifying and cruel. But I found that just holding those tiny liitle babies first before giving them to the hospital was somewhat healing. The first one that I lost was harder because I felt so bad and also didn’t get to see my little one.
or because she suspected the boyfriend had slipped her something to cause the miscarriage, it didn’t say whether or not the drug charges were unrelated i.e. possesion or an outstanding warrant. On a different note…it’s my birthday today :)
I had an experience much like Muriel’s. My doctor never said a word about it. Just a plum sized clot to pass, dontcha know? I was totally unprepared to see my baby and didn’t know what to do!! I flushed it as my husband thought that was best although he didn’t know either.
I wish I would have had the presence of mind like Bethany to at least put the baby in water, take pictures etc.
I still feel bad about that. I am sure it must be pretty common as some doctors are prochoice and do not tell women what they need to know when they miscarry a baby at home.
If it’s NOT A BABY in an abortion how can it BE A BABY in a miscarriage??!!
Happy Birthday, Rachael C!!
I don’t even know what to say about this. This was just a baby- there are people who refuse to flush their goldfish down the toilet but for a human being it is okay?
Bigotry sucks. :(.
Jill:
This is in my backyard (Phoenix) and I’d like to be your go to guy if need be.
I have contacted Len Munsil and Cathy Herrod.
Please e-mail me.
“I didn’t realize (or I could be wrong) that the remains of a miscarriage needed to be analyzed. That hasn’t happened for any friends I know of that have miscarried. So I guess my response is, if you didn’t have to examine it AND the woman was present and was asked, I don’t see why the flushing was an issue.”
Danielle,
Are you kidding me? You clearly don’t get it. We’re not talking about an “It.” We’re talking about a human child! You don’t flush children down the toilet! (Would anyone, ANYONE, even think of doing that with a dead puppy?)
If you can’t understand what’s wrong with that, why that’s disrespectful, inhumane, and just plain wrong, then you have a problem.
This story is sad on so many levels. That anyone could flush a human baby down the toilet like sewage is beyond comprehension. The disregard for human life that abortion breeds within our society is an insidious poison. God help us.
I still feel bad about that. I am sure it must be pretty common as some doctors are prochoice and do not tell women what they need to know when they miscarry a baby at home.
If it’s NOT A BABY in an abortion how can it BE A BABY in a miscarriage??!!
Posted by: Carla at June 8, 2009 5:38 PM
Hi Carla,
You are right on with this. We are hoping the “Grieving Parents Act” which passed last year in my state will help to inform women of their options on fetal disposition. This bill reguires medical professionals to let women know what their options are upon diagnosis of miscarriage.
I know a woman who miscarried her 20 week old little girl in the toilet during a rainstorm. She and her husband were at a loss with what to do so they buried her in their back yard that night.
The hospital got angry when she told them what she had done. Without any information on what to do, they went with their best intincts at the time.
These police were very callus in their actions. It will be interesting to hear more about the story.
“You don’t flush children down the toilet! (Would anyone, ANYONE, even think of doing that with a dead puppy?)”
Bad analogy. Unfortunately, many people will show more respect for a dead puppy than a dead fetus.
why were the police called? alot of pieces missing here.
Jen @ 6:15,
I should have said “sad analogy”, instead of “bad analogy”. Sorry!
Are you kidding me? You clearly don’t get it. We’re not talking about an “It.” We’re talking about a human child! You don’t flush children down the toilet! (Would anyone, ANYONE, even think of doing that with a dead puppy?)If you can’t understand what’s wrong with that, why that’s disrespectful, inhumane, and just plain wrong, then you have a problem.
Posted by: Jen at June 8, 2009 6:15 PM
-What’s with the attitude?
I asked a legitimate question and no, it was not meant to invoke some type of response other than a reply of information. I explained, as have others on this board, that often times early miscarriages are discarded in the bathroom, for whatever reason. As I said, of my friends who have miscarried, there was not a lot of debate on what to do if they were at home – from those experiences I’m more intimate with, they flushed it down the toilet. The only time a doctor was involved was either after 1st tri, or if they chose to have a D&C after.
If you chose or would choose another path, then fine, but it is a practical response to an early miscarriage. This is not a personal attack on your choices or feelings.
I wonder if the woman was asked permission. Seems like a violation to me. What if she wanted a memorial, cremation or burial for her baby? I would like to know if she granted permission or if the cops just discarded the baby without her input.
Shotty police work.
An ultrasound at 8 weeks along confirmed that my baby had stopped developing early in the pregnancy and I was given the option to have a D&C or miscarry naturally sometime in the next few weeks. Something about the D&C idea make me uncomfortable, plus I didn’t have the money to pay for it anyway. The doctor told me the miscarriage would be like a very heavy period. That was complete BS. It was extremely painful and frightening, and I blacked out multiple times. Being too terrified, hysterical and sick to think clearly, I passed everything into the toilet. I never saw my baby and it absolutely kills me that I flushed him/her down the toilet. I wish I had been prepared for what a miscarriage is actually like, so I could’ve attempted to keep the baby’s body for some sort of private burial.
In response to Danielle’s question, I’ve known a couple friends who’s doctors did anaylze the first trimester babies’ remains. But I believe this was per the mothers’ requests to identify the gender, perform a genetic test for chromosomal abnormalities (the most common cause of miscarriage), and to determine if there was a heightened risk for repeat miscarriage. From my understanding, doctors routinely don’t peform tests on miscarried babies until at least the 3rd consecutive miscarriage.
This is so tragic. I had a miscarraige in which nothing was visible but blood clots–it was possibly a false pregnancy–but it brought back memories of sexual abuse from my early life. When the miscarried infant is visible, for both obvious medical and even emotional reasons, the body must be saved and examined! This is what abortion has done to the medical standards and police standards in America! What if the woman was a victim of a forced chemical abortion or violence and was being silenced by her boyfreind? I believe it is possible the woman was also being aborted and flushed down that toilet by the whole abortion mentality!
When My sister had a miscarage, she was six weeks. RJ
Janette, Marian and RJ,
I am so sorry.
Janette, Marian and RJ,
I am so sorry.
Posted by: Carla at June 8, 2009 8:36 PM
-Ditto… unfortunately, Janette’s experience sounds very similar to my friend’s, and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
Hi Danielle,
Thank you for that. Thank you for coming here and letting us get a glimpse of your heart, Danielle.
Although my first miscarriage was so hard, something I was in no way prepared for I am also very thankful for it. If I hadn’t held that baby(Jamie)in my hand I would never have seen with my own eyes a baby at 10 weeks along. I knew. There was no doubt about the child that had been killed in an abortion 5 years before.
We need more Information RJ
Carla:
Thank you. I’m sorry for your loss, as well. Oh wow. I named my miscarried baby “Jamie,” too.
Danielle:
Thank you. It’s kind of shocking how miscarriage is often treated by the medical community. Thankfully, there’s a lot of helpful resources on the internet that promote pregancy loss awareness.
So I guess any abortion is legal now. Back alley, whatever. No holds barred, no investigation needed! Anyone notice the name of the Lt. who advised flushing? Female? Post-abortive female who maybe didn’t want to be confronted with a past deed? Granted, this is all speculation, but IF THE POLICE DON’T DO THEIR JOBS AND INVESTIGATE, ALL I CAN DO IS SPECULATE. This story is disgustingly tragic.
Janette,
:) Jamie. I once met someone who had an abortion and named that girl Aubrey, just like me. God does some amazing things.
Xalisae,
I was thinking the LT. was a man. Without a clue. :P
My mother is doing better! Have any of you ever Read the Book, “I’ll hold you in heaven,” by Jack Hafard? I think Carla recamended it to me once. RJ
Hooray, RJ! That’s good news. :D. Best wishes to your mother.
I’ll Hold You in Heaven by Jack Hayford.
An excellent resource for those who have lost a child to miscarriage, abortion, still birth or early infant death.
Glad to hear about your mom, RJ!
wonder who amongst this group had an abortion or had a partner who had an abortion?
then again there are alot of stupid mistakes made by police (my apologies to any police officers)
It’s the typical pro-abort mentality. Before viewing pictures of abortions, I’d pictured the baby looking like a blood clot. Now we see that isn’t true! They have tiny feet, hands, organs, a head. Remember the abortionist who was putting babies down a garbage disopsal?
“Lt. Lynn Young told the officers and fire personnel over the phone not to take the fetus but to flush it down the toilet….”
=============================================
I am assuming this Police Lt./Officer-in-charge is a woman…which makes this scenario doubly disturbing… now..why would she order this?
Curiouser and curiouser…
Exactly what i was thinking with my previous post, RSD. This just seems to blatantly abnormal…
“Remember the abortionist who was putting babies down a garbage disposal?-Heather”
Heather are you serious? I nearly got sick just reading that. Lord help us if that’s true, and Lord help him..
I was shocked, too, Rhonda, when I read former abortion clinic owner & director Carol Everett’s comments about how they disposed of the bodies:
http://www.humanlife.org/publications/sacnac5.pdf
Also her comment about the REAL safety of today’s safe, legal abortions: “killing or maiming 1 woman out of 500.”