Abortion mill deathscorts fume when “Life Escorts” don identical orange vests
Well, this is good. Pro-life activists are an imaginative bunch.
At the EMW Women’s Surgical Center abortion mill in St. Louis Louisville, those who pro-lifers call “deathscorts” – volunteers or staff paid to navigate abortion-minded mothers past pro-lifers – are angry because pro-lifers have started wearing the same orange vests they do.
The deathscort blogging at EverySaturdayMorning, who took these photos on January 2, called the pro-lifers “lurking liars,” but their vests are clearly marked…
… and pro-lifers certainly don’t mask their intentions either, as evidenced by this video shot by the deathscort….
This is fabulous.
Jan.05, 2010 6:12 pm |
Industry watch |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
There are several types of boating lifevests that really provide insulation value.
Check this out the ‘groper in chief’ is copping a feel from Michelles ample booty. Starts at about 1:45 on the counter.
Give the first lady some credit, she did slap his hand.
At least B.O. was fondling his own wife and not some white house intern.
yor bro ken
http://www.thejaylenoshow.com/video/clips/monologue-0104/1190209/
Everything she said was so true.
Lord Jesus,
Awaken your church, your bride, that we might glorify you in the Earth, that the lost will be drawn to You and see Your Light, that they might be delivered from this polluted sin-sick world, and that they might know You and the depths of Your Love for them.
kbhvac,
That gave me a chuckle!
If I was heading inside for an abortion (didn’t know they did them at night either) I would’ve started bawling at that girl’s words. ” A baby that looks like you and is gonna love you” man, that just made my heart break.
“You’re already a parent”
If that’s not eye-opening, I don’t know what is.
* * *
From the EMW Women’s Surgical Center link:
It is important to us that our patients feel cared for, heard and understood. Our goal is to treat our patients with kindness, diginity and respect. We believe that each woman is an individual with feelings, dreams and goals and that you have a right to your reproductive options. Permitted to make your own choices, you can design and create a life that is uniquely yours.
WOW, create a life uniquely yours that will forever include killing your own flesh and blood? What a promise.
By the way, the EMW Women’s Surgical Center is in Louisville, KY (not St. Louis) according to their web site.
Ken 6:43PM
You’re just jealous!! :)
Mary,
I’m not sure if jealous is the right word.
No, wait, I am sure, ‘jealous’ is not the right word.
Come up with another ‘word’.
How about ‘gleeful’.
I just love pointing out B.O.’s total lack of class, culture, decorum, manners, protocol, dignity, propriety, noblese oblige.
What was that word HAL used the other day?
Loathsome.
B.O. is loathsome.
This is the president of the United States of America, not some late night talk show host or professional golfer.
yor bro ken
Okay – yell at me if you’d like – but the gal knows nothing about the lady going into the clinic. What does she start doing, but preaching about her eternal salvation and what the Lord would think. Now that’s all fine and such, but where’s the offer to buy this gal dinner and talk about it – whatever her decision? Where’s the offer to help support her – whatever her decision? I don’t think people go out to get pregnant to have an abortion – what I mean is, I don’t think it’s a “cheerful” decision. So let’s love these women and support them and help them, and then if they ask later, tell them about the Lord.
Praise God for those Life Escorts. The young woman who was speaking and was filmed had such a gentleness and kindness about her. I was so moved and it brought me near tears.
Thank you all for being there and doing what you’re doing. God bless you.
Ex-GOP: “Where’s the offer to help support her – whatever her decision?”
Why would she offer support no matter the decision? It really doesn’t make much sense, considering that pro-lifers view abortion as murder, per the moral definition.
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at January 5, 2010 10:45 PM
“So let’s love these women and support them and help them, and then if they ask later, tell them about the Lord.”
—————————————————-
I believe B.O. has tried that same approach with the Jew hating mass murderers and serial killers.
You judge how it is working out for him and the flying public.
Under the circumstances I believe the good christian lady exercised great restraint and demonstrated great compassion.
She employed the least confrontational language possible and communicated the reality of what was being contemplated by the pregnant woman who was about to pay to have her human embryo/fetus/child murdered.
X,
when your mother was pregnant with you what species of embryo/fetus was present in her uterus?
yor bro ken
Are you a progressive/liberal/humanist, a conservative, or a Redneck?
Here is a little test that will help you decide.
The answer can be found by posing the following question:
You’re walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children.
Suddenly, a Jew hating mass murdering Islamic
Terrorist with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at you.
You are carrying a Kimber 1911 cal. 45 ACP, and you are an expert shot..
You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.
What do you do?
……………………………………………… ……….
liberal/progressive/humanist’s Answer :
Well, that’s not enough information to answer the question!
Does the man look poor or oppressed?
Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?
Could we run away?
What does my wife think?
What about the kids?
Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?
What does the law say about this situation?
Does the pistol have appropriate safety built into it?
Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?
Is it possible he’d be happy with just killing me?
Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?
If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my
family get away while he was stabbing me?
Should I call 9-1-1?
Why is this street so deserted?
We need to raise taxes, have paint and weed day and make this happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.
This is all so confusing!
I need to debate this with some friends for few days and try to come to a consensus.
… ……………………………………………. ………..
conservatives answer:
BANG!
…………………………………………….. ……………………………………………… ………
Redneck’s Answer:
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG !
Click . . .. (Sounds of reloading)
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
BANG!
Click [sound of another full magazine going into weapon. No use carrying a gun if it ain’t loaded.]
Daughter: Nice grouping, Daddy!
[grouping-all the bullet holes are in close proximity to one another.]
Were those the Winchester Silver Tips or Hydrashocks?
[Google it.]
Son: Can I shoot the next one?
Wife: You ain’t taking that to the taxidermist!
—————————————————
[author unknown.]
yor bro ken
I think I understand what Ex-Gop is saying…Not the part “whatever her decision”. When women go into these clinics thinking to abort their babies, they go there with a heavy heart.Most of them are confused and misinformed. When people start yelling to them that they are sinners and murderers, and that they need to repent, it does not sway them to choose life. I think it scares them more or worse, angers them and would want to go through with the abortion just to spite them. They go into the “leave me alone, its my life and body thinking” I think they should be dealt with compassion and understanding…
I think less emphasis needs to be placed on the sermon and more on saving the baby. If these women aren’t faith-minded, this kind of talk is only going to immediately turn them off, and everything she’s told her about her baby (as true as it is), falls on deaf ears because they quit listening at “God…”
Trust me.
Now I’ve seen it all — armchair sidewalk counseling.
Yeah…because you know me personally. If you’re so cranky, maybe you should go take a nap or something. That’s what I recommend for my children when they’re behaving in such a way.
And by the way, did you even bother reading the article on which this clip was located? If you bothered to actually listen to what the other side says and react to it, you’d probably get farther than just screaming about God at someone who doesn’t care. She said that the women see the vests, go toward them thinking that they are deathscorts, AND THE SECOND ANYTHING COMES OUT OF THE SIDEWALK COUNCILOR’S MOUTH, THEY GO INSIDE ANYWAY. A wonderful opportunity to tell a woman something true about her baby that she needs to hear, and it’s wasted because you jesus freaks can’t lay off the godsauce for 10 freaking seconds. I am telling you WHY this is happening, and all you want to do is mock me. So be it. Enjoy continuing to make no progress.
The woman was already walking inside before the Life Escort mentioned God, it’s not like the mother walked away AFTER she heard the “Godsauce.” She was following her. I give her credit for following her and trying to do something about the baby. What would you do if you had seconds to save a baby, what would you say?
As for abortions at night, for later term abortions they sometimes have to go in at night to start the process of opening the uterus. This is what a sidewalk counselor in Texas told me. They insert a stick of seaweed into the cervix that absorbs water and expands, opening the cervix. That way they can fit the tools inside to kill the baby. The mom gets the stick inserted at night and then finishes it the next day.
There is a program here where the counselors are not allowed to approach women, but if the women approach them then they find out how to help. Seems like they
I believe we’re making progress.
In fact, I know we are.
Xalisae, I agree with you that some might be turned off by mention of God. As a Christian I think all of mankind’s problems could and can be solved by God but I do hear what you’re saying.
I think its like if someone is drowning do you talk at them about God or throw them a darned life ring? If someone is starving to death on the street do you preach to them or give them a hot meal? I think the immediate need is support to help her have her baby…then she might be more tender to hear about God’s love for her when she has weathered the crisis.
Now some women might respond to the thought that God loves them and that Jesus desires to have a personal relationship with them…I have seen it happen. But I know it has turned some people off too. I totally get it, X.
I think in life, timing is everything. Its not that we shouldn’t tell others about Jesus and His great love for these moms, its just timing.
I agree with Xalisie. I am a Christian, but I know that not everyone shares my faith or wants to hear about it. I think the best way to approach the women is with a help of assistance, tell them that there is help available with housing, finances, etc., if they want to carry their child to term. No shouting, no screaming, no talking about heaven or hell. Just a smile and a kind word and an offer of help. Sometimes it works, usually it doesn’t. But remember that we’re called on to be faithful, not successful . . .
I also want to add though, that I think this young woman did an awesome job in trying to talk the mom out of an abortion. If anyone has ever done it, it is NOT EASY! Your heart is pounding because you can FEEL the presence of EVIL at that clinic—its indescribable! You know its a life and death situation, and the deathscorts often curse at you and are very violently nasty and angry. Its not easy to do at all.
I think also a reminder that they don’t have to be a mother if they don’t want to, but please at least give this new person inside them the chance to live that they’ve been given.
Wait, are these the same “sidewalk counselors” who videotape women entering clinics (with faces fully visible), then post it on YouTube for the world to see? You can see them being harassed and followed as they walk past groups of screaming pro-lifers on their way into the clinic.
http://www.youtube.com/user/brotherhank1
That doesn’t sound pro-woman or Christian to me. That sounds like intimidation of women considering abortion. “We will put you on YouTube to publicly humiliate you and invade your privacy.”
By the way, do you think ANYONE would stand for a group of fanatics videotaping and harassing people going to a clinic for any other type of appointment–say, cancer treatment?
Back to using our old moniker, Ashley (nerd, Liz)? Ok then.
Wait, are these the same “sidewalk counselors” who videotape women entering clinics (with faces fully visible), then post it on YouTube for the world to see?
Did you see *these same* sidewalk counselors harassing, videotaping, and screaming at anyone? I’m guessing that’s a no.
And people don’t harass others about cancer treatment because cancer treatment seeks to save lives, not destroy innocent ones. But you already knew that.
Oh, Oliver! Your little friend is back with her usual completely insane statements…
I wouldn’t care if anyone put video of me walking into a hospital for chemo, Ashley. Why do you think abortion is so different? Hm?
“Did you see *these same* sidewalk counselors harassing, videotaping, and screaming at anyone? I’m guessing that’s a no.”
It’s the same clinic, and I’m willing to bet it’s the same group of protestors. That’s how it seems to be at a lot of clinics.
Do you think it’s moral to take these videos and put them on YouTube in order to “out” women who have had abortions? I think most people find that repellent.
Oh, I see…you’re here to talk about what’s “moral” now?
Tell me, Ashley, is abortion a moral act? If so, why?
I’m not discussing the morality of abortion. I am staunchly pro-choice and will not be explaining my position once again. I’m asking whether you thinking “outing” women with YouTube videos is moral. If so, the pro-life movement can forget “women are victims of abortion too” and “we love them both.” The goal of outing is public humiliation and intimidation of women. It sure won’t score you any points with the public.
and by “most people” you mean people who get paid to give women abortions, men who harass their sexual partners into obtaining abortions, and women who obtain abortions to get out of their responsibilities to another human by killing him/her…right?
I find abortion repellent. So do most people I know.
BTW I have friends who sidewalk counsel and offer free ultrasounds etc. They reach out to save two lives. If the woman still goes in they are there with abortion recovery information when she comes out.
I see no one even answered my question about whether posting videos of women entering clinics is the holy, Christian, compassionate, “we love mother AND child” thing to do. And no, by “the public” I mean everyone in our society.
I like how no one posting here anonymously pretends to give a second thought to the woman–if not expressing outright hatred for her. When they’re in public, pro-lifers put on a big pro-woman show, claiming that they love the mother too, and they’re just trying to spare women lifelong pain and regret. But when you’re anonymous, your real feelings come out.
To paraphrase you Ashley “I’m Ashley and I won’t explain my pro-choice position cause I CAN’T. I’ve tried and lost bitterly…but I keep coming on this website and moaning and complaining but whenever anyone tries to engage me in debate about my insane rhetoric I will just try to act just and the perfume of my high-brow attitude will permeate all the ridiculous things I have to say.”
Why do you keep coming on here if you don’t want to dialog? I mean you’re welcome to be here I guess, but whats the point if you aren’t willing to debate? Why not go to a pro-choice website with kindred spirits and wallow in your misery there?
And I agree with the others…if someone videotaped me going into my docs for a pap smear it really wouldn’t bother me in the least. What is it about abortion that is different?
I already debated long and hard.
Please keep posting videos of your protests and harassment campaigns; it will guarantee you’ll never win through democratic means, since decent people will never stand for that.
And yes, I WOULD be angry if someone videotaped me going into a doctor’s appointment for the purpose of intimidation. If some Scientologist who doesn’t believe in prescription medications filmed me at the pharmacy to broadcast what a bad person I am, then put it on YouTube, I would be very pissed. If I had to walk past screaming banshee Scientologists to go to the doctor, I would also be very pissed. Who are they to intimidate me?
“if someone videotaped me going into my docs for a pap smear it really wouldn’t bother me in the least.”
That’s hilarious, since pro-lifers like to stand outside Planned Parenthood and scream hatred at women who are ONLY going there for pap smears. A lot of poor women get basic gynecological care at PP, since they can’t afford anywhere else. You probably don’t have to walk past screaming protestors when YOU get a pap smear, but poor women in the ghetto who get them at PP do.
There’s more of that “pro-woman, pro-life” stuff for you.
I watched your video Nerd. Please tell me how that was used to “out” women? That was the purpose of the video? You know who shot the footage? That is why it was filmed? I hardly even saw her face with the herd of escorts around her.
I disagree with any intimidation of women seeking abortion.
Women deserve better than abortion.
Anonymous posts are not allowed. What are you talking about Ashley?
The titles of the videos are things like “protest at abortion mill,” so it was obviously shot by a protestor. And the women’s faces are clearly visible to the point that anyone who knows them could identify them.
You can see this woman’s face:
http://www.youtube.com/user/brotherhank1#p/u/3/X5AWD5WbcGM
Do women deserve better than to have strangers post videos of them on YouTube without their consent, in order to identify and shame them for having abortions? Is public shaming compassionate?
I hate to repeat myself again but I will….INTIMIDATION OF WOMEN SEEKING ABORTION IS WRONG.
Women deserve better than abortion.
OK, nerd, BIIIIIIG difference here between a phony sect/religious affiliation/cult/whatever and ALL pro-lifers. I really can’t believe you’re still trying to portray this as merely an ideological difference and lying about what it really is, a grave violation of the basic human right to live that many different people from all walks of life oppose strongly.
If a $cientologist did something like that (and they do things like that, often, don’t get me started on $cientology), no right-thinking person would look at it, nor would they care if they did. Again: WHY IS ABORTION DIFFERENT?
“If a $cientologist did something like that (and they do things like that, often, don’t get me started on $cientology), no right-thinking person would look at it, nor would they care if they did.”
Nope, sorry, there’s no difference. Pro-lifers filming a woman going into an abortion clinic (for the purpose of outing and shaming her) are no different than Scientologists who film a person filling an antidepressant prescription, or filming patients entering a psychiatry clinic. (The intent is to indentify and shame people seeking psychiatric care). In both cases, the goal is to violate privacy and harass the person seeking medical care that the filmmaker personally finds evil.
If Scientologists wanted to film me going to the pharmacy and post it on youtube or scream at me as I went to the doctors WHO CARES? I don’t find anything morally repulsive about getting a prescription filled so it WOULD NOT BOTHER ME. And if they posted it on youtube it wouldn’t bother me because almost every one in our society thinks prescriptions are morally fine.
Abortion is different. Sure, millions of women get them, even while inside they wrestle with doubts and shame because while society has legalized it, society is NOT OKAY with it. Women fear judgement because they know most people view abortion with distaste. I had an employee who was vocally pro-choice. But as soon as another employee came out and admitted to having two abortions as a teen, this pro-choicer was SO QUICK to ridicule, berate, and belittle this woman. I, the pro-lifer was the one who didn’t pass judgement but offered a hug and listened sympathetically to her story.
I don’t hate women who have abortions. I don’t hate women. I AM a woman. Why would I hate my own gender? I do hate abortions, Ashley. I am upset that every abortion kills a defenseless baby. I am not pretending to be sympathetic to the mom. Sometimes I do get angry because abortion is the most selfish thing a society can do. Abortion is selfish on the part of the mother, but also on the part of the father who can’t be bothered to be a man and take care of his child, on the part of friends and families who don’t want to be bothered to help the mother through a crisis pregnancy but would rather she take the easy way out and leave them alone.
Abortion makes me mad at the selfishness of abortionists who whore out their medical skills in order to rake in loads of cash (ob/gyns who deliver babies don’t make as much as abortionists…and it takes 9 months to deliver a baby as opposed to 5 minutes for an abortion at 8 weeks gestation) It makes me mad at the selfishness of Christians who won’t open their hearts and their wallets to help women who made a mistake and need help! And sometimes I do feel disgusted at the whole mess, but women like Carla remind me where my heart needs to be, and I do have genuine love and empathy for the suffering of my sisters who have had abortions. You act like you know it all Ashley, but you’ve hardly lived long enough to know a thing.
Also, it’s worth mentioning that the video Jill features here was actually taped by a clinic escort, not a sidewalk counselor (which is made clear in the first moment of dialogue when the person video taping reassures the patient they are video taping the sidewalk counselor, not her), so there goes your first fallacy, Ashley.
By the way, let’s say you took your child to the doctor. A bunch of loony Scientologists, who don’t believe in medicine or prescription drugs, surround your car and follow you to the door, telling you what a horrible parent you are. They shove Scientology pamphlets in your face and scream at you to turn around. This happens every time you go to the doctor’s office, which can do nothing to stop it. How do you feel about that?
Ashley: “I already debated long and hard.”
Care to give it another go, Ashley? I promise that I will answer every question you pose, with explanation, if you do the same. Come on, it’ll be fun.
I’ll start by answering your current questions.
Ashley: “I’m asking whether you thinking “outing” women with YouTube videos is moral.”
You ask a very complex question, but I think I can make some assumptions about your terms and answer it. Considering that most women who are having abortions from convenience are either depraved, ignorant, or intelectually lazy, I would think that the form of intimidation you speak of would only galvanize abortion supporters, and is thus not moral.
Now, before you get too upset at my characterization of women, consider that, aslo by my characterization, most people in the world are ignorant, depraved, AND intelectually lazy.
So I’ll start by asking the first basic question. At what point does a human being become a person and what are the prerequisites?
What do you think of the tv show “Cheaters”, Ashley? Is that morally reprehensible? Just curious.
Ashley: “How do you feel about that?”
As long as they never actually touch me, I am fine. Are they annoying? Sure. Would I care if people knew that I took my child to the doctor, or would I care if someone shamed me about taking my child to the doctor? Nope.
“Care to give it another go, Ashley?”
Nope, sure don’t. I’ve given my answer to every possible question and scenario, so have fun debating yourself.
It’s nice to see pro-lifers admit they find women “depraved” and “ignorant.” But…but…”we love them both!” “Women are exploited by abortion!” “Pro-woman, pro-child!”
You know you can’t win democratically by admitting you actually hate women and find them depraved, so you have to pretend to oppose abortion in their best interests. I think the pro-choicers should just compile the most appalling anti-woman comments from this site and post them somewhere.
Ashley: “Nope, sure don’t. I’ve given my answer to every possible question and scenario, so have fun debating yourself.”
It’s funny, because I have as well, but I still have no problem standing up for my beliefs. Why do you?
Ashley: “It’s nice to see pro-lifers admit they find women “depraved” and “ignorant.””
Can you read? I’ll repost to clarify.
I said: “Now, before you get too upset at my characterization of women, consider that, aslo by my characterization, most people in the world are ignorant, depraved, AND intelectually lazy.”
Did you just not read my full post, or are you another liberal hack, who responds to what she wants, when she wants, regardless of the truth?
Ashley: “But…but…”we love them both!” “Women are exploited by abortion!” “Pro-woman, pro-child!””
When did I ever say that? When did anyone ever say what I said? You are confused in your generalizations. I, Oliver, said that most people are depraved, and I, Oliver, never said that I am “pro-woman” in this case. The women are murdering their children. Regardless of the excuse, I find this unacceptable.
Ashley: “You know you can’t win democratically by admitting you actually hate women and find them depraved, so you have to pretend to oppose abortion in their best interests. I think the pro-choicers should just compile the most appalling anti-woman comments from this site and post them somewhere. ”
Do you really believe this? I’m curious. Who here is anti-woman? Most of my friends are liberal women, actually. No, we are not anti-women. We are anti-murderers. If men could have abortions, those men would be held at the exact same level of contempt.
Now why do you not want to defend your views? Are you incapable of answering a simple question? We don’t have to do the whole marathon post thing. Just explain when a person is a person and why.
Also, I’ve addressed this issue in a post at my blog:
Two Lives Saved by Sidewalk Counseling
On a busy day at an inner city abortion clinic, you may find both anti-abortion protestors and clinic escorts. Legally both the sidewalk counselors and the picketers have the legal right to express their views under the first amendement. However, there are certain laws which do limit their access and proximity to the clinics. However, that’s not what I’m wanting to focus on here. Today, I’d like to discuss the role of sidewalk counselors. There’s a lot of assumptions that they’re the same as the picketers. Actually, there is a difference in presentation and demeanor between sidewalk counselors and picketers and their goals are different. I think a lot of folks don’t understand who these sidewalk counselors are and what they are there to accomplish. The sidewalk counselors are there to offer information on alternatives, resources for pregnancy and parenting, lawsuits against a shody clinic, and support to a woman considering having an abortion. “How is a frightened woman on her way into a clinic for an procedure supposed to tell the difference between a “counselor” and a “picketer”?” That’s a good question. Usually counselors are offering informational pamplets and not loud or obnoxious, although they may call to the woman to get her attention. They also have a different goal, not to scare or intimidate, only to offer alternatives to abortion and also to director her to resources which can assist her. Picketers on the other hand, primary try to intimidate and shock women into not choosing abortion. And while I disagree with many of the picketer’s methods (i.e. bloody photos or screaming words of condemnation), there are protestors who make a quiet prescence with just prayer. Here’s an interview with a protestor. Oftentimes, I think individuals and groups mix up the two groups and assume the worse about sidewalk counselors without actually getting to know them on an individual basis. They just may have more in common goal-wise than they know.
It is up to every individual woman whether or not she’d like to speak with the sidewalk counselors, and especially if you’re not sure about your decision, I’d like to encourage you to give these people a chance and hear them out. Even so, I’d like to bring to attention that clinic escorts often block the patients from ever having the chance to speak to the sidewalk counselors both physically and verbally, sometimes with loud music and megaphones, and sometimes they even harass and physically engage the sidewalk counselors and picketers. And also I’d like to point out that many pro-choicers and clinic escorts perpetuate a fear of pro-lifers, painting them all as violent, raving, “crazies” and make sure to keep women from hearing them, non-the-less talk to them. She’s not given a choice once she’s at the clinic and in the grasp of a clinic escort. She’s often rushed into the clinic, regardless of whether it’s of her own will, past the sidewalk counselors without a second thought. And clinic escorts are often eager for the protestors to get forcibly removed from the premises often over-eggagerate minor offenses to local police, which often take the side of the clinic.
http://community.livejournal.com/ljforchoice/92838.html
http://www.gargaro.com/otherside.html
http://abortionviolence.com/SC.HTM#ACLU1
http://abortionviolence.com/CA.HTM#BACAOR
http://abortionviolence.com/WI.HTM#MCPC
http://abortionviolence.com/MN.HTM#PPFA
http://abortionviolence.com/CO.HTM#PPFA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwbCMMBnTcQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lj4vRgZ69g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOptXN8UXfc
“But when someone goes into an abortion clinic, she already knows what she’s going there for.”
Yes, she knows that she’s going there to have her pregnancy ended, but there’s not always a guarantee that she’s received adequit information to make an informed decision on all her options, or that she isn’t beeing pressured into an abortion by a family/member significant other or that she’ll receive adaquite counseling at the clinic:
http://www.clinicquotes.com/selling.html
http://www.clinicquotes.com/womensconsent.html http://www.passboards.org/forumdisplay.php?f=18
http://www.abortionconcern.org/abortion-info/forced-or-coerced.php
Read More
LOL. Too bad she can’t show her this: http://www.abortioninstruments.com/abortion_videos.html (Mod Warning: EXTREMELY GRAPHIC video.)
It was interesting reading through the posts – 42 since I made my last post, and the moral thoughts of what was going on was particularly interesting. Unfortunate that there was some third grade debate going on during the thread, but it is what it is.
All I know is, from a Christian perspective, these women going in are no different than you and I. Sinners – all of us. I think any support to either a woman walking in or walking out is the way to go – but I think it has to be support and not preaching (in my humble opinion).
I also know that what these folks are doing, while not moral, is also legal in the US. I think harassment and videotaping of them, where it does occur, is a horrible picture of the anti-abortion movement. If folks on the other side are doing other terrible things, well, that doesn’t justify then doing terrible things back.
Interesting debate though – learning a lot on this board.
Posted by: Ashley at January 6, 2010 1:36 PM
“I see no one even answered my question about whether posting videos of women entering clinics is the holy, Christian, compassionate, “we love mother AND child” thing to do.”
————————————————–
ASShley,
The post indicated it was the ‘DEATHSCORTS’ who provided the stills and the video.
It seem you’ve directing fiendly fire in your cohorts direction.
“The
deathscort
blogging at EverySaturdayMorning,
who took these photos on January 2,
called the pro-lifers “lurking liars,” but their vests are clearly marked…
… and pro-lifers certainly don’t mask their intentions either, as evidenced by
this video
shot by the deathscort….”
I have been to more than a few non-violent direct actions at the child killing centers in communities in the United States and Canada.
I have never heard anyone use the language you attribute to the sidewalk counselor in the posted video. It is not even in the video.
Now, I have heard some abortionists confronted with the reality of their barbarism, but even then the counselors used language that was NOT designed to arouse an angry response.
All the sidewalk counselors I have met are very special people who have a deep sense of love and compassion not only for the prenatal child but for the pregnant woman. Meek is the best word I can think of to discribe these selfless servants who receive no material compensation for their labor of love.
For their efforts the ‘dead babies r us’ crowd rains curses and often spittle on the heads of the sidewalk counselors.
To use your perverted sense of compassion and charity the christian thing to do would be to offer the pregnant abortion bound mom a rusty coat hanger, or if she turns away, give her a baseball bat so she can bash her babies brains with her own hands out right after birth.
Have I wrapped the package up for you all neat and tidy with a pretty little pink or baby blue bow?
Ashley,
When your mom was pregnant with you what species of embryo/fetus was resident in her uterus?
yor bro ken
“Care to give it another go, Ashley?”
Nope, sure don’t. I’ve given my answer to every possible question and scenario, so have fun debating yourself.
Posted by: Ashley at January 6, 2010 2:19 PM
-Its really the best option. As you’ve come to notice around here, the ‘debate’ will circle around itself ad nauseum, until it comes to three of one possible conclusions on your character, morality, and/or understanding of science/law/history:
1. You are ignorant.
2. You are in denial.
3. You are depraved.
Kind of like those choose your own adventure books from grade school. The conclusion statement variates from thread to thread, but never from the three. From the vibe of this one, looks like you might straddle somewhere in between ‘depraved’ or ‘ignorant’ today…but not sure which one just yet. Just be prepared.
oops that should say ‘one of three’ above. My snarkiness got in the way of wordsmithing ;)
Dear Danielle,
When have I EVER called you ignorant, in denial or depraved??
:)
But would it be ok for you to call me one or all of those three?
Dear Danielle,
When have I EVER called you ignorant, in denial or depraved??
:)
But would it be ok for you to call me one or all of those three?
Posted by: carla at January 6, 2010 7:51 PM
-Hi Carla.
No, I didn’t say you ‘call me’ any of the three. That wouldn’t be very nice of me, either. But they are certainly conclusions that many, and yes, including you, have made after a nice go ’round. That I guarantee.
As much as we have debated the role of abortion, personhood, the vastness of ‘post abortive trauma’…you mean to tell me that you’ve never left it and thought about how much ‘denial’ I or other PC’s are in re: those issues? At least that’s the kindest conclusion of the three.
Danielle,
After the first couple of years discussing abortion, I came to your very same conclusion. I started paying attention, however, and I noticed that the conversation only goes in circles when the people involved in the debate avoid answering direct questions honestly.
For example, notice how I previously characterized women who have abortions negatively, but then explained that I view most people in this way, yet Ashley only jumped on the first statement. She totally ignored the portion of my post that didn’t suit her. This is where the problem lies.
Then again, I’m not sure why I waste time telling you this. I’ve watched you “debate” and you are one of the worst of these types. Hell, if I remember correctly, you are one of the posters who believes that emotions are more important in the abortion debate than rational thought. Please correct me if I am wrong.
It baffles me really. There are two simple questions to the entire abortion debate, minus some interesting, although usually flawed, shades of grey arguments.
Is a fetus a person? If yes, then why, and if no, then why not?
Assuming a fetus is a person, then does its rights include the right to the partial use of its mother’s body? If yes, then why, and if no, then why not?
I see Oliver has opted for conclusion #1 for the first part of response.
But – in the spirit of fairness and balance, I will answer the last set of questions directed to me, as succinctly as possible:
“Is a fetus a person? If yes, then why, and if no, then why not?”
-A fetus is a developing human being. By definition, yes, this is therefore a developing person.
“Assuming a fetus is a person, then does its rights include the right to the partial use of its mother’s body? If yes, then why, and if no, then why not?”
-No. The right of the fetus to use the body of the mother does not supercede the woman’s right to decide to stay pregnant or not. A fetus does not have rights, outside of the one assigned to it by the mother.
Now, Oliver can choose from conclusion points #2 or 3 on that last bit, as it were.
Danielle….what is a “developing” person? How can someone be half person half nonperson? You are either a person or you aren’t. A child is either a person or he isn’t. A fetus is either a person or she isn’t.
You call us depraved? Thats kinda funny…go to the link provided by Gera. Watch the videos of baby arms and legs swirling in blood…YOUR side did that Danielle. YOU did that to your own baby after you coldly viewed the ultrasound and decided to execute your offspring anyway to suit yourself. And yet you think WE who oppose children being murdered are depraved. Wow…you are so off your rocker. seriously.
Sydney – that’s a little messed up. Ask Danielle for a clarification – but seriously, to fall off the deep end in your second paragraph…is this 7th grade debate class?
. YOU did that to your own baby after you coldly viewed the ultrasound and decided to execute your offspring anyway to suit yourself.
Sydney, I don’t think Danielle has had an abortion, not that it is all that relevant. You are probably thinking of me, or Megan, or possibly Ashley(? I haven’t been around much lately).
Sorry Sydney, you misread. I did not call you depraved.
No Alexandra, Danielle proudly declared on other threads that she an abortion.
Danielle you said that those of use who continue to oppose abortion must be depraved, ignorant and in denial as you attacked our morality, character and understanding of science, law and history.
x-GOP, I have no idea what you are talking about.
No Alexandra, Danielle proudly declared on other threads that she had an abortion.
Danielle you said that those of use who continue to oppose abortion must be depraved, ignorant and in denial as you attacked our morality, character and understanding of science, law and history.
x-GOP, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Ashley: “I see no one even answered my question about whether posting videos of women entering clinics is the holy, Christian, compassionate, ‘we love mother AND child’ thing to do.”
They love the mother and the child. And…if the mother smothered her one-year-old child while he slept in his crib, they’d probably want to “out” her for that, too. Make sense?
No Alexandra, Danielle proudly declared on other threads that she had an abortion.
Danielle you said that those of use who continue to oppose abortion must be depraved, ignorant and in denial as you attacked our morality, character and understanding of science, law and history.
x-GOP, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Posted by: Sydney M. at January 6, 2010 10:51 PM
-Now I’m the one that has no idea what you’re talking about. All of the above is incorrect.
But, a fight for another day. It’s midnight here and past my bedtime. Hopefully by morning this confusion will be clarified for Sydney. Thanks.
Danielle: “A fetus is a developing human being. By definition, yes, this is therefore a developing person.”
So we are in agreement on point one. A fetus is a person.
Danielle: “No. The right of the fetus to use the body of the mother does not supercede the woman’s right to decide to stay pregnant or not. A fetus does not have rights, outside of the one assigned to it by the mother.”
You have already contradicted yourself. A fetus is a person, but the fetus does not have rights?
Do you not believe that persons have inherent rights? We may have a definition issue.
What exactly is a person, if it is not the state of having inherent rights? What exactly is a person with no rights?
Danielle, the Mother Earth is tired of your parasitic feed of her. Please allow the useful members of Mother Earth rid YOU from her.
We are more intelligent, have greater feelings, and don’t depend on her as you do. Ta ta useless feeder.
Danielle,
I would choose deceived. So was I. I have been where you are. Justifying abortion and working to “help” others get abortions. I understand completely why you do what you do.
Did you forget that I prefer speaking the truth in love? You will be won by love like so many of us here.
In defense of Danielle-she has never had an abortion.
Posted by: Ashley at January 6, 2010 1:36 PM
I find nothing immoral about posting those videos on You-Tube. Is that straight-forward enough for you?
Then I am confusing Danielle with another pro-abortion poster. My apologies….they all spew the same tired slogans. I get them confused.
Again, Ashley, since you refuse to answer this question:
WHY. IS. ABORTION. DIFFERENT?
Why is abortion different than someone going in for a pap smear or having their tonsils removed or even getting cosmetic surgery for god’s sake? Parents took video of their own son after his dental surgery and posted it on YouTube for all the world to see, the monsters! Now everyone knows that little David went to the denist. THE SHAME! Oh…wait…you mean nobody actually cares, because there’s nothing wrong with going to the dentist, or having your tonsils removed, or getting a pap smear, and even having breast implants added to you is more acceptable than getting an abortion? WHY IS THIS, ASHLEY?!
You have already contradicted yourself. A fetus is a person, but the fetus does not have rights?
Do you not believe that persons have inherent rights? We may have a definition issue.
What exactly is a person, if it is not the state of having inherent rights? What exactly is a person with no rights?
Posted by: Oliver at January 7, 2010 1:08 AM
-I know you’re looking for a ‘gotcha’ moment here, but no such luck. I haven’t contradicted myself. I even re-read what I wrote. I know exactly what I said and stand by it. A fetus is developing into a person. It is developing arms, legs, hair, eyes, etc. It does not have rights until it is born. Done.
Did you forget that I prefer speaking the truth in love? You will be won by love like so many of us here.
Posted by: carla at January 7, 2010 6:09 AM
-Of course, I know that is how you communicate, which makes it much more tolerable. I appreciate it.
Danielle: ” I even re-read what I wrote. I know exactly what I said and stand by it. A fetus is developing into a person. It is developing arms, legs, hair, eyes, etc. It does not have rights until it is born. Done.”
See, I asked you if a fetus is a person, and you said yes. Here is the original exchange.
Oliver: “Is a fetus a person?
Danielle: “A fetus is a developing human being. By definition, yes, this is therefore a developing person.”
What did you mean by “yes?” Did you actually mean “no, a fetus is not a person?”
Let’s get this straight before I address your “developing hair and eyes” argument.
And we thought we were so clever in Michigan. We have been wearing neon vests for months….same effect too. Very irrate PP staff! They gathered together in the parking lot, plotting and pointing at us, trying to figure how are vests could be deemed illegal. Now the deathscort refuses to wear his.