Nothing on our issue this week, but here are my Top 5 picks of political cartoons, touching on a variety of current events. Some are funny, some not so much, like this 1st one….
by Lalo Alcaraz at GoComics.com…
by Steve Kelley at Townhall.com…
by Eric Allie at Townhall.com…
by Michael Ramirez at Townhall.com…
by Chip Bok at Townhall.com…
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Immigration Debate Shakes US To The Core
Apr 30 08:51 AM US/Eastern
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.6e6b338d2625c3ba01797b878d0018e9.41&show_article=1
A group of Latino members in the New York state assembly is even planning to go and chain themselves to the US-Mexico border fence.
“We’re willing to risk ourselves for the people of Arizona and other immigrants across the country,” local lawmaker Felix Ortiz told Cityhallnews.com.
—————————————————–
What risk?
Snake bite, heat exhaustion or sun burn?
If Felix Ortiz and his compadres really want to demonstrate their machismo they should enter Mexico illegally and begin marching thru the streets of El Paso demanding equal rights with Mexican citizens.
When the Mexican authorities demand to see their passports, visas, and ID they should scream ‘discrimination’ and see how that works for them.
When the Mexican government finally gets around to deporting them, we should ask them about the accomodations, cuisine and conversation in the Mexican prison where they were incarcerated for violating Mexican law.
6 Out of 10 migrant Women Raped In Mexico, activists say
By TIM JOHNSON
McCLATCHY NEWSPAPERS
April 28, 2010, 8:41PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/6980699.html
MEXICO CITY — As many as six out of every 10 Central American women and girls are raped as they pass through Mexico hoping to cross illegally into the United States, Amnesty International said Wednesday.
The rapists include criminal gang members as well as local authorities in collusion with them, said Rupert Knox, an Amnesty International researcher on Mexico.
Last year, Mexican immigration authorities detained 64,061 migrants, about a fifth of them women or girls, the report says.
Migrants fear that if they report assaults, abductions or rapes, they’ll be deported to their home countries, it said.
—————————————————
My goodness Mexico actually enforces it’s imigration laws, even against Spanish speaking Latinos/Latinas.
I wonder how Mexican law enforcement officials determine who is in the country legally and who is there illegally?
The Arizona one is an interesting one…I don’t agree with how far the law goes. On the flip side, I think it is good that states are doing something because the federal government has gone so long without doing something – so at least this forces their hand to action.
A few years ago a deputy sheriff in a county near Austin, Texas noticed a car that had been parked in rest stop for several hours in the wee hours of the morning.
The deputy knocked on the drivers side window and when the driver opened the window it was Willy Nelson.
The deputy searced Willy’s car and lo and behold he found some wacky tabacky (marijuana). The deputy cited Willy for possession of a controlled substance.
The case was dismissed because the presiding judge ruled the deputy did not have probable cause to search Willy’s car.
Willy Nelson is probable cause.
‘youtube.com/watch?v=wDQANmQO2g0’
I will leave it your fertile imaginations to make the connection between Willy and illegal aliens and probable cause.
I will leave it your fertile imaginations to make the connection between Willy and illegal aliens and probable cause.
Even my fertile imagination can’t seem to make a connection between illegal aliens and abortion…..
Hey Lala Alcatraz:
I’m an Arizonan. I have a good mind to sue you for slander.
Hey, have you ever visited an Arizona family that was completely devastated by a car accident caused by an illegal alien who had no insurance?
Oh, and this very minor point. Did you ever see 15 or 20 bodies laying dead on the highway after a singe vehicle accident? No? Oh, it was a pickup truck with camper stuffed with illegal aliens, who had paid thousands of dollars to come here illegally via those despicable “coyotes”. Where’s you outrage you hypocrite?
And how about all the illegal immigrant girls who are used for sex and the Mexicans who sell them? Perhaps you’ve partaken?
Your outrage should be against Mexico and the 100 or so families that control all the wealth there not a state that has been financially devastated by the tens of thousands of illegal aliens who bought homes here in Arizona without so much as a SS number, watch them double in value, refinanced them and then took the money and ran to Mexico to retire? Where’s your phony ire?
Stick to the facts.
EGV,
What is is your concern about this law? Sounds like a darn good one to me and long overdue.
Of course the Democrats and liberals aren’t thrilled. They will need their votes to stay in power.
Hi Phil,
A couple of illegals in my city grabbed a woman off the street, raped, then set her on fire in an attempt to kill her. The woman survived, physically and emotionally scarred. Though not American citizens and illegally in this country, they were given all the benefits of an American citizen, even translators. While this woman struggles to rebuild her life these dirtballs will live comfortably in prison.
We have enough of our own dirtballs without someone else’s.
Phil,
Wasn’t a Mexican-American child snatched from his home by home invaders and found later abandoned on a street in Mexico? The family, law abiding American citizens had no connection to crime and it was thought to be a case of mistaken identity.
Isn’t there a kidnapping epidemic in Phoenix? How many victims are American citizens of Mexican origin. Oh, and wasn’t a Mexican American border guard shot execution style by drug runners?
Do these people, who live in safetly and comfort, ever have much concern for the Mexican American victims instead of the illegals.
Mary –
First off, hope all is going well.
Here’s my concern. I have lunch from time to time with folks from India that are here legally in the US. The thought that somebody could come to us while we’re walking on the street and ask for ID – that just seems very anti-American to me.
I mean, I’m up in prime hunting territory – I think a very similar law would be to allow cops to pull over anyone in a pick-up truck to check for guns and registration.
I do hope that this gets more debate going so that federally, something gets done. I doubt this law will stick in the courts anyways, but hopefully will prompt something to get done.
Ex-GOP,
This may sound harsh, but this isn’t a “feel good” issue. There is nothing anti-American about enforcing laws. Mexico has their own way of enforcing illegal immigration. (See Malkin’s articles below.) The US will do a much better job in a much more ethical way. God bless Gov. Brewer- AZ for finally doing something.
http://michellemalkin.com/2010/04/28/police-state-how-mexico-treats-illegal-aliens/
I had to go back to Go Comics’ site to figure out the Alcaraz cartoon. It’s a Nazi reference according to commenters there…
didn’t see that coming. It makes no sense. No one will be sending Mexicans to the death chambers. There are legal Mexican-Americans speaking in favor of some type of reform so these cries of racism or unfounded. Could we stop using the race card any time we have a disagreement?
It’s a reference to the fact that the Jews were forced to wear a yellow star to identify them in public. I think the biggest fear is that people who are here legally, even born here, with generations of family here, will be detained for traveling without papers. I would be scared some policeman would abuse the system and just be checking people on the streets.
I’m all for getting the illegal aliens out, but not at the expense of law abiding American citizens.
Sara,
Every day law-abiding American citizens are “inconvenienced” by laws that are created to ensure the well-being/safety of society.
A free society demands certain laws.
RINO,
Unless you or your East Indian associates (if they even exist) are jay walking or urinating in public or doing something else illegal to bring them to the attention of Arizona law enforcement they you do have to be concerned with being asked by a police officer to produce a ‘state’ issued ID.
[Most ‘legal immigrants’ are in favor of enforcing our existing immigration laws. They are angry that the law whith which they were required to comply does not seem to apply to the tens of millions of people who chose to flaut it. Some of them should file a class action lawsuit using the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution.]
The assumption of liberal/progressives is that the cops in Arizona are going to turn into a bunch of Bull Connors overnite.
My assumption would be that the ethnic makeup of the Arizona law enforcement community pretty well reflects the ethnic composition of the Arizona population as a whole.
So what the progressive/liberals are contending is that cops in Arizona are going to turn on their fellow citizens, many of whom share the same ethnicity as the cops, and demand to see the ‘papers’ of any non-caucasian whom they might happen to encounter.
I happen to believe that vast majority of cops are basically good people who have taken an oath to uphold the United States Constititution (and unlike liberal/progressives, take it seriously) and to protect and serve the citizens of the particular state in which they live.
Sorry for all the posts, but here’s a very good OP-ED piece by Kris Kobach who helped draft the statute.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/opinion/29kobach.html
Janet – how about this then – to avoid racial profiling while enforcing this, lets put random road blocks on roads across the country and ask for documentation of everyone who comes through – every state – then we’ll be fine, right?
Nothing like a little Sunday humor, thanks for sharing.
Ex-GOP,
Hardly. The scenario you propose would be an equal-opportunity inconvenience but as I said before, sometimes inconvenience is necessary. Don’t misunderstand, I’m not advocating road blocks across the country to enforce immigration laws, but they can be an effective way of deterring illegal activity. For example, in my city, several times a year, law enforcement will set up road blocks at certain intersections and check the occupants of EVERY car for evidence of drunk driving. They announce it advance so there’s no excuse for those who are caught. Do you object?
“The thought that somebody could come to us while we’re walking on the street and ask for ID – that just seems very anti-American to me.”
Unless they’re committing a crime, they have nothing to worry about.
Hi EGV and Sara
I’m fine thanks EGV and I hope all is well with you.
The ARizona law specifically forbids profiling and randomly checking the ID of citizens. It must be a legitimate police action, such as a traffic stop, commission of a crime, etc. for IDs to be checked.
Unless police want to face reprimand, pay loss, job loss, or legal action, its unlikely profiling will be commonplace.
BTW, are we not all ID’d every time police stop us, have reason to question us because of suspicious activity, when we go to the airport, use a credit card, or cash a check? My bank won’t do business unless I present my ID, and I’ve been a customer 33 years.
We’ve waited for the federal gov’t and look where its gotten us. Citizens terrorized in their homes and children kidnapped, not to mention the rape victim set on fire.
I have absolutely NO issue with people here legally, what ever their race, religion, or ethnicity. I have every issue with people here illegally, whatever their race, religion, or ethnicity.
law enforcement will set up road blocks at certain intersections and check the occupants of EVERY car for evidence of drunk driving. They announce it advance so there’s no excuse for those who are caught. Do you object?
Posted by: Janet at May 2, 2010 3:34 PM
“Evidence of drunk driving” is different from “evidence” of citizenship. You are either over the limit or not. What happens when some American senior citizens, who don’t have licenses or any ID’s (see nuns in Indiana being hassled about voting), are being transported to the senior center and the driver, an illegal, gets stopped for running a red light? Do they get detained while ICE is contacted? What happens when a Hispanic American man, whose wife is in need of vital medication, forgets his drivers license in his haste to get to the pharmacy? He gets detained. His wife doesn’t get the vital meds. How bout an American Hispanic teenager who does’t have his license yet and he gets stopped for loitering? The need for “papers” speaks to a national ID card. I thought that you conservatives didn’t like that kind of “socialist” intrusion – not to mention that some fundies say it’s the mark of the devil. Good thing we don’t have profiling up here. Given the number of illegal Irish, there would be lots of us “detained” if we didn’t have our papers.
Seth Myers, on SNL, said it best about the Arizona law – it’s a “dry fascism” LOL! There was also an old Cheech Marin movie about this, too….
And BTW, if you’re an Arizona resident and you’re taking your legal cleaning lady home and she sees a friend who needs a ride, don’t pick that person up. If they’re illegal, your car can be impounded. But here’s the thing, if right wingers like Tom Tancredo, Rick Perry, and Karl Rove have a problem with this law, then something’s not right.
Artemis,
I think the issues you bring up have already been addressed in one way or another by my myself and others, and in the links provided. I don’t know what more can be said.
Artemis, nothing would happen to anyone in any of the situations you posed that would be in any way different than if it happened to a non-hispanic.
All the law does is fix the horrible system in which illegal immigrants now have a license to do whatever the hell they want (as long as it’s not a felony) and drive away. Get hit by an illegal immigrant in Austin? The cops will make you change his flat tire and send him on his way without so much as a ticket.
Legal American citizens already have to “show our papers” any time we get a citation.
Mary (4:37):
You are correct. The legislation was crafted with the purpose of avoiding profiling. The law was passed only after exhaustive and unsuccessful attempts to get the feds to actually enforce federal statutes.
Naturally, the MSM has been putting forth their agitprop on the side of stirring up resentments and furthering their own agendas. Contributors to this blog who only read or watch MSM are simply parroting the misinformation they consumed. Garbage in, garbage out.
The very convenient thing the MSM has going for themselves is that they do not have to actually report the truth. The Lalo Alcarez editorial cartoon is a case in point. This is just what we expect from leftist and MSM sources. The same MSM will ignore the fact that the great union leader–Cesar Chavez– of the United Farm Workers, an organization that I as a long time union member have supported for many years, was himself an ardent opponent of illegal immigration. Those who support strong immigration laws are no more racist than was Chavez. He understood the basics of supply and demand. If you have too many laborers willing to fill too few jobs, the few improvements he was able to secure for his union members would soon be lost.
It is unconscionable for political leaders to look the other way while millions of citizens are unemployed even as jobs are being filled/held by undocumented non-citizens.
Phil, maybe you can answer a question your Governor couldn’t. What does an illegal immigrant look like?
I’m all in favor of tightening up the boarder and imposing harsh penalties on employers who hire illegals, but asking police officers to stop someone when they have a reasonable suspicion they’re illegal is over the line. There are illegal Canadians in this country too, but they look a lot like “us.” However, once you realize that there a lot of Mexican-American citizens in this country, you realize that a lot of the illegal Mexican immigrants look a lot like “us” too. that’s the problem. The law is unconstitutional and the courts will so rule. You heard it here first.
Yes, there’s a million stories.
Ex-GOP: “The thought that somebody could come to us while we’re walking on the street and ask for ID – that just seems very anti-American to me.”
…good thing that’s not what’s in the new law, then. They won’t be approaching people who are just walking up the street or “taking their kids to get ice cream,” as President Obama said. You have to have committed another crime. So if you’re HOLDING UP the ice-cream parlor, they might bother you. If you’re not, no worries.
Legal American citizens already have to “show our papers” any time we get a citation.
Posted by: Lauren at May 2, 2010 5:34 PM
Sure, but how about just walking down the street?
bmmg39 – “committed” another crime, or just under suspicion? Two different things entirely.
Janet – I certainly don’t object to the scenario you’ve given. What I object to is seeing a car with Latino men in it and deciding to pull it over and check, well, because they are Latino men.
Because people say that the cops can’t profile, but citizens can sue the cops under this law if they don’t think the cops are doing enough.
Nice work by the GOP on this one though – shift the focus off of health care – and pi** off a fast growing population of voters for a law that doesn’t stand a chance of surviving the courts (at least in its totality).
U of Arizona is losing some out of state students – University President:
“We have already begun to feel an impact from SB1070. The families of a number of out-of-state students (to date all of them honors students) have told us that they are changing their plans and will be sending their children to universities in other states. This should sadden anyone who cares about attracting the best and brightest students to Arizona.”
Freedom at its best – pass laws you want and deal with the consequences.
Again Hal, toting the water (or should I say kool-aid) for Obama just doesn’t cut it.
Besides, it will soon be found out that Obama is not a natural born citizen. His just released Occidental transcripts show he applied for tuition as a foreign born student. I can see why he could care less about about securing our borders, he wants to steal our country and is doing a very good job at it.
It’s not racial profiling, read the bill. Besides, it not Mexicans we’re talking about it’s the porous border. Anyone from any country from the world can get in friend or foe. It just so happens that here in Arizona, many of the illegals stay and overload our schools, emergency rooms and prisons and get no reimbursement from the Feds.
I look like a Mexican, Jordanian, Iranian, etc. If some police officer stops me for speeding and in the course of trying to establish who I am determines that I’m an illegal alien, what in the heck is wrong with that? It’s called “law”.
Did you know that 1,000 illegals cross the border just in Arizona every day and 4,000 nationwide? If just 1/10 of 1% or 4 of these people are terrorists from the Middle East and they have been crossing since 9/11/2001 that means that about 12,000 terrorists are in this country just waiting to pounce on us via a nuke, a dirty bomb or a biological weapon or who knows what else. It only took 18 terrorists to carry out the destruction of the WTC Towers.
It’s OK Hal, I know you reject the notion that our country is being readied for judgment and destruction.
At least I can sleep at night knowing I did my best to try to stop abortion and secure our national sovereignty.
You know very well Hal that all this stuff is not about caring for illegal immigrants it’s about buying their votes. It’s the Democrat way. They are all thieves. They steal from the unborn, they steal from the US citizen. Or didn’t you know Hal that our current Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano was a rabid pro-abort governor and wanted to provide illegal aliens with drivers’ licenses here in Arizona (so they could vote) and now she’s the wolf guarding the hen house. Judgment my friend, judgment.
But you knew all this.
Oh Phil – I think it would be wise of you to learn about Snopes – or maybe Urban Legends. Or maybe just how to google. The Occidental email spoof dates back about a year now – debunked in April of 2009 by Snopes – Urban Legends reported it in September.
The problem is, when you have a posting with something so outrageous (like somebody who denies the holocaust or somebody who says that pets should have the same rights as humans), well, it sort of taints the rest of the posting.
Come on Phil – jump off the crazy train for a few minutes and enjoy life with the rest of us.
Hal “Sure, but how about just walking down the street?
”
If we’re j-walking. Which is exactly the same measure that will be used in Arizona. The ruling only applies to situations in which a crime is being committed.
EGV:
That’s a good thing. The less Liberals, the better in an already Lib infested area of the state, Tucson.
Another minor point Hal:
If you can prove the police used racial profiling to stop you, guess what, there’s specific language in the bill that says you can sue the government.
If Dems would only learn to use the truth.
Despicable.
FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THISSTATE **WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES**, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,…”
Oh Phil, I have read the law. And the law allows asking for papers of anyone who looks like a Mexican, or Canadian, or Englishman if “reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States.” That’s the part of the law that goes too far. There is no such thing as “reasonable suspicion that a person is unlawfully in the United States.” Is it reasonable to conclude that someone speaking German is an illegal immigrant? How about speaking Spanish? What would you tell a police officer to look for?
And Phil, I’ve seen the video of you on your website. You don’t look like a “Mexican, Jordanian, Iranian” to me. And, by the way, do you carry proof of US Citizenship around with you?
You anti-government teabaggers sure don’t mind a big powerful government messing with the other guy now and then, do you?
Hal, I suggest you read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/opinion/29kobach.html
Your take on ‘reasonable suspicion’ is just plain wrong.
And btw, government is there to enforce security and uphold the rule of law. Which is a good thing. But going beyond this – like killing the unborn – is a bad thing. Also, using the term “anti-government teabaggers” tells us all we need to know about you.
Misrepresentation and name-calling. Grow up.
6 Out of 10 migrant Women Raped In Mexico, activists say
By TIM JOHNSON
McCLATCHY NEWSPAPERS
April 28, 2010, 8:41PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/6980699.html
MEXICO CITY — As many as six out of every 10 Central American women and girls are raped as they pass through Mexico hoping to cross illegally into the United States, Amnesty International said Wednesday.
The rapists include criminal gang members as well as local authorities in collusion with them, said Rupert Knox, an Amnesty International researcher on Mexico.
Last year, Mexican immigration authorities detained
64,061 migrants,
about a fifth of them women or girls, the report says.
Migrants fear that if they report assaults, abductions or rapes, they’ll be deported to their home countries, it said.
—————————————————
My goodness Mexico actually enforces it’s imigration laws, even against Spanish speaking Latinos/Latinas.
I wonder how Mexican law enforcement officials determine who is in the country legally and who is there illegally?
[The Mexican cops, from experience, know how ‘illegals’ look and how they behave. It is obiviously NOT the color of the suspects skin, unless they happen to be blonde haired and blue eyed and can’t speak Spanish.]
“If Dems would only learn to use the truth.” – Phil
…coming from a guy who posted an email chain from 2009 as “fact”
EGV:
Substatiate Ms. Democrat.
I live in Arizona and my husband is a legal resident alien. One of the federal laws that legal resident aliens are told when they get their identification papers (aka “green card”), is that they MUST carry proof of their legal status at all times. That is a federal law.
Reasonable suspicion is a legal term that has been clearly defined. Legal contact is a legal term that has been clearly defined. Racial profiling is expressly forbidden by the statute.
Latinos are not the only large ethnic group of illegal immigrants in Arizona. They are just the ones up in arms over this law. There is also a large population of illegal aliens from the Middle East and from Asia.
As was pointed out, the ethnic background of the police department here is similar to the ethnic background of the state at large… in other words, many Hispanic officers.
I have been in an accident with illegal aliens. Cost me a lot to get my car fixed and they got away free. Officers in our state have giant target signs on them because the drug running gangs want to intimidate them and make people afraid to join the police force.
They want to turn this state into an extension of a third world country and the federal government has done NOTHING to stop them. My father was a police officer here from the 1950s to the 1970s and is still in contact with many high ranking officials in the Phoenix Police Department. We have one of the most ethical police departments in the country. And these good men and women are being gunned down by violent criminals.
As a native Arizonan, I support SB 1070.
Hal, 7:34PM
Immigration status will be checked if the person is questioned by police for a legitimate reason.
This should include Canadians as well as any other person illegally in this country, whatever their nationality.
What does a drunk driver or rapist look like?
A police officer may not know he has stopped such a person until he smells their breath, observes behavior, checks ID or calls for any wants or warrants on the person.
Happens all the time Hal. When my brother was a police officer he pulled people for routine stops, only to discover they had guns or stolen property. He had to carefully document how he made his discovery, why the person was stopped, that the person was properly ID’d, etc. He couldn’t just willy-nilly pull people over because of how they looked.
Hi Elisabeth,
Don’t you just wish these bleeding heart liberals were as upset over the Hispanic border guard shot execution style by drug runners and the Hispanic child snatched from the home of his family, legal American citizens, in a likely case of mistaken identity? Thankfully the child was found alive, roaming a street in Mexico where he had been abandoned.
As always liberals have it backwards. Feel sorry for the perpetrators, to hell with the victims.
Artemis 5:08PM
Oh please Artemis, you’re beginning to sound like a Greek chorus.
What if the illegal you feel so sorry for who is stopped running a red light happens to slam into your car or a car containing people you love? Will you be so concerned about the fate of this illegal as you bury your loved ones or spend time in a hospital? He likely won’t pay a dime toward your expenses.
Artemis, if those dear nuns had wanted to board a plane or cash a check, they would have had to show ID, or been SOL. My bank, where I have been a customer for 33 years won’t give me a dime without seeing TWO pieces of ID.
If the hispanics you mention couldn’t produce ID, its likely police would do what they usually do when you are violating traffic or loitering laws, ticket them for driving without a license and then do a computer check. If there’s any question
you are given an opportunity to produce your ID. Police may follow you home. If the loitering teen is a minor, his parents will be called.
Seth Myers and Cheech Marin. Now those are two great legal minds if there ever were!
The police departments in the larger metropolitan have equipped their patrol cars with video cameras that scan the license plates of the cars in their field of view. Then the on board computer in the squad car gives the make, model and color of car it is assigned to as well as the person to whom it is registered. If the car is on the stolen vehicle list or there are outstanding warrants on the owner of the car or the car is reported stolen or the car does not match the description on the registration the on board computer alerts the officer driving the patrol car.
The officer will most likely pull that car over and call for back up and then approach the car with great caution. Nothing racist about that.
Police officers ‘profile’all the time. Race may figure into the calculation some time but not always.
If they observe showing signs of neglect and disrepair rollling down the road, there is a more than likely chance the driver will not be able to produce proof of insurance. The officer just has to wait for the driver to violate one of a myriad of traffic laws and he has probable cause to pull the car over and as the driver for his papers.
I have been pulled over for crossing the white fog line on the edge of the sholder of road.
I was driving a 20 year old Suburban full of kids.
Did I fit the ‘pofile’? Yes.
When I produced the required documents and answered the officers guestions truthfully, he cautioned me not to cross the fog line and sent me on my way.
If during his conversation with me the officer had detected ‘tells’ that indicated I was nervous or being dishonest, he probably would have continued the conversation untill he was satisfied I was not doing anything illegal.
Everytime you pass through customs and immigration returning to the United States you go through the same drill.
The law enforcement officers are practicing due diligence and following procedure.
They are ‘profiling’.
Hi Ken,
Three senior citizens coming into the US have their car searched at the border. Mexicans? Muslims?
No, my 67y/o sister who is a retired nurse, her 70y/o husband who is a retired physician, and my 92y/o mother returning to the states after visiting grandchildren and great grandchildren in Canada.
Two teenage boys out for a drive are suddenly surrounded by police and forced to stop at the side of the road. With guns drawn, the police order hands up and out of the car then finally permit the young men to retrieve their IDs, after threatening to shoot one of them for moving too soon to check his wallet.
Hispanics? Mexicans? Suspected illegal aliens?
No, two white males, both high school seniors and American citizens, who happened to fit the description, vehicle and all, of two young white males in a white station wagon that had just committed armed robbery in the same vicinity my two friends happened to be driving in.
Egads, that almost sounds like profiling!! Don’t police just target illegal aliens!
I’m not that concerned with the “rights” of the illegal immigrants, but I am concerned with the rights of American citizens of Mexican descent. They, like the rest of us, have no duty to carry proof of citizenship.
I do see that the AZ Senate Bill, which I originally quoted, was amended by the AZ House. So, there is some improvement in the final bill. However, I still don’t see it getting through the courts. We’ll see, I guess.
Hal,
The only “proof of citizenship” is a driver’s license, state issued ID, passport, tribal ID card, green card,etc. I certainly hope you have the good sense to carry such “proof of citizenship” at all times. It makes it a lot easier to ID you in an emergency.
Hal:
Think for a change will ya?
Hal,
I have been stopped by the police when I had no identification.
I was able provide them with enough information ie my social security number, that they could verify who I said I was.
I have a good friend, a pastor of a local Spanish speaking congregation, who is a legal immigrant from Mexico. He a naturalized U.S citizen.
A few year ago he drove to Mexico and on his way back he realized he had forgotten his U. S. passport.
When he got to the border he provided the U. S. border guards with his Texas drivers license and told them he had left his passport at his home in Texas.
They fingerprinted him to verify who he was and lo and behold the prints matched a person with a different name.
Turns out my friend had been apprehended, arrested and deported back to Mexico when he was a teenager. He had given the Boreder Patrol a false name at the time. (Humans are stupid and when we are teenagers we do some really dumb things.)
After my friend had confessed the transgression of his youth the immigration officials informed him that his U. S. Citizenship could be revoked because he lied about his prior arrest for being in the country illegally when he had applied for U.S. Citzenship.
Because he is my friend and I know him to be a honorable, productive member of society, I am pleased they did not revoke his citizenship.
But if the feds had revoked his citizenship I would not have faulted them because he chose to violate the immigration laws of the U.S. at least two times.
‘Big Brother’ has little or no difficulty determining who is in this country legally and who is not.
The US imigration officers fussed at me when I tried to re-enter Texas from Mexico using only my long form birth certificate and my Texas driver’s license. [I was a little more than annoyed because the president of the United States has yet to provide us with his long form birth certificate.] But I went along with the drill and promised to bring my passport next time. [You cannot win an argument with these guys.] The border officials told me they could have required me to go to a U. S. consulate in Mexico to obtain the proper documentation before they would allow me back into the country.
If you cannot speak English, there is probable cause to believe you are NOT a citizen and reason to require you to produce documentation showing who you are and what your immigration status is.
Hal, you are in effect, accusing every law enforcement officer in Arizona of being a racist redneck who is just waiting for some poor unsuspecting person with ‘brown skin’ to make his day.
What do you say to all the law enforcement officers in Arizona who have the same ‘brown skin’, some of whom are naturalized U. S. citizens, who immigrated to the states legally?
I cannot take your objections seriously, unless it is just an exercise to keep you debate muscles toned up.
Hal, you are in effect, accusing every law enforcement officer in Arizona of being a racist redneck who is just waiting for some poor unsuspecting person with ‘brown skin’ to make his day.
Posted by: yor bro ken at May 3, 2010 12:53 PM
No I’m not. The law requires them to do this. Some Sheriffs have resisted, calling the law stupid.
Hal, 12:59PM
No the law does not require them to do this, it expressly forbids it.
The majority of Arizona citizens support this law.
Naturally you will find people from all walks of life in Arizona who oppose it.
We’ll know soon. Regardless of the technical merits of this law, however, it appears to be a PR nightmare for AZ (and perhaps the Republican party). I’d love to see Major League Baseball move their spring training facilities.
Hal,
Why would you love to see major league baseball move their training facilities?
PR nightmare? Hardly. Its only a nightmare for the Democrat Party which was counting on the illegal vote to stay in power.
Actions have consequences, Mary. The players association wants to make sure Arizona suffers some consequences following their recent actions. I’d enjoy that.
But Hal,
Why would you enjoy it? What is so wrong with this law that you want to see Arizona punished?
Are you equally concerned about Mexican AMERICAN CITIZENS being affected by this boycott financially?
How about Mexican AMERICAN CITIZENS such as the border guard and the kidnapped child who are victims of Mexican drug cartels?
Typical liberal, side with the criminals, to hell with the victims.
Mary, I’m not siding with the criminals. I guess I should just say, “typical conservative, loves the Constitution except when it gets in they way of hurting those who are different.” That doesn’t help us reach consensus, does it?
Hal,
You haven’t told me what is wrong with the law and what you think of the boycott possibly hurting American citizens of Mexican descent.
If you’re not siding with the illegals, who are you siding with, people like the murdered border guard and the kidnapped child? Or maybe that deputy that was recently shot in the abdoman by an illegal
Also, your response concerning the Constitution doesn’t make any sense.
Wow, this site’s clearly exploded since I was last here, haha.
Nice to see you’re still around Hal. Is the MLB really looking at moving their facilities?
Hi Dan. I don’t think MLB is really going to do anything. I’m just having a bit of fun. Some players are clearly unhappy, but it will probably come to nothing in the end. Good to see you back here.
Mary, your comment about me “siding with illegals” doesn’t make sense.
“I guess I should just say, “typical conservative, loves the Constitution except when it gets in they way of hurting those who are different.”
Uh no. The law does nothing to infringe on the rights of anyone. All it does is ask illegal immigrants to do the same thing that we ask of legal citizens.
Hal,
Don’t you hope Arizona is boycotted? Is that siding with the citizens of Arizona, the majority of whom support this bill? Then tell me who you are siding with.
Speaking of the Constitution? How does this law violate the Constitution?
Hal/Mary –
The one thing that I’m sure you’ve both read in regards to the debate is the fact that the situation Mary keeps bringing up – the awful killings and such – this law doesn’t do much to stop it. Nothing about the border or anything like that – just a crack down on people who look un-american.
Mary – google the new law and constitutional issues – Karl Rove among others thinks it has issues and won’t stand.
I think it is also telling that the top ranking folks in Texas have said that they wouldn’t pass a law like the one that was passed.
Texas is a sanctuary state where our local police officers have been flat out told to release any illegal immigrants after they commit a crime as long as it’s not a felony.
EGV,
Rove is expressing his personal opinion. He also supported “immigration reform”.
Karl Rove also took issue with the notion this law would lead to racial profiling:
“These are modern police forces that respect the rights of people in their communities. They’re going to do it on reasonable suspicion that these people are here illegally, like when they’re driving a car with a Mexican license plate or they can’t speak English or they don’t have a driver’s license.
Mexico’s Illegals Laws Tougher Than Arizona’s
‘washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/03/mexicos-illegals-laws-tougher-than-arizonas/’
“Mexican President Felipe Calderon denounced as “racial discrimination” an Arizona law giving state and local police the authority to arrest suspected illegal immigrants and vowed to use all means at his disposal to defend Mexican nationals against a law he called a “violation of human rights.”
But the legislation, signed April 23 by Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer, is similar to Reglamento de la Ley General de Poblacion — the General Law on Population enacted in Mexico in April 2000, which mandates that federal, local and municipal police cooperate with federal immigration authorities in that country in the arrests of illegal immigrants.
Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.
The law also says Mexico can deport foreigners who are deemed detrimental to “economic or national interests,” violate Mexican law, are not “physically or mentally healthy” or lack the “necessary funds for their sustenance” and for their dependents.”
————————————————–
Are Mexicos immigration laws unreasonable?
Does the Mexican government violate human rights simply by enforcing them?
EGV,
Even Karl Rove agrees this is not a “crackdown on people who look un-American”.
How interesting,
Further googling shows that 51% of Democrats support the Arizona law, 43% oppose it.
RINO,
Rick Perry is doing a litte Texas two step in an illadvised attempt to pander to both sides of this debate. This aspiring political prima donna has made a calculation that he can burn his candle at both ends and not get singed on either side of his mouth.
Perry has come to the fork in the political road and he has taken it, just as Casey Stengel advised.
Personally I am happy Perry has exposed his lack of principle and/or courage.
Maybe this will be enough to eliminate any possibility that he may run for the republican nomination for president.
Rest assured the disaffected independents and tea party folks are watching and they will not forget.
I hope this issue forces every aspiring politician to stake out their position. It will make voting a much more simpler process if they do.
Mary – there’s a good article on 538 (one of my favorite blogs – tough to read sometimes because it is so statistically deep – but good breakdown of numbers – massively accurate) – says that within the polling, some of the support isn’t as much about the law itself, but that somebody did something for once (which I agree with). It’s a bit like health care reform for me – is the law perfect? Nopes – but we have to start somewhere. In this case, if the feds can’t get something done, the states need to force their hand.
That I can get behind.
Posted by: Hal at May 3, 2010 2:18 PM
“Regardless of the technical merits of this law, however, it appears to be a PR nightmare for AZ (and perhaps the Republican party).”
————————————————–
Hal,
It is only a ‘nightmare’ in your liberal fantasy world.
Most Arizonans and most americans support the Arizona law.
It is the lapdog lame scream liberal media who are doing their best to convince themselves and other liberals it is a PR nightmare.
It does not seem to be working anymore than their attempts to paint tea party folks as gun totin and bomb throwin terrorists.
Meanwhile print media ciculation is steadily falling, all the major networks are hemorhaging viewers except FOX, and the only people less popular than the democRAT members of congress are tax collectors and jew hatin mass murderin muslim extremists.
If this is a PR nightmare then I hope it goes into syndication is re-run for years to come.
Hi EGV,
Well we can certainly agree on that point, the states had to do something. If the feds had been protecting our borders and citizens as the Constitution designates, Arizona would not have needed to take matters into its own hands.
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at May 3, 2010 6:13 PM
“It’s a bit like health care reform for me – is the law perfect? Nopes – but we have to start somewhere.”
————————————————-
RINO,
We should start with the federal government enforcing the existing immmigration laws, which are quite reasonable and not much different from Mexicos statutes or probably any of the Central American countries.
One of the few constitutionally mandated responsibilities of the federal government is to protect the citizens.
‘Health care’ is not a constitutionally manadated or even authorized responsibility of the federal government.
You are menace not only to yourself but to others who are as woefully ignorant as you are concerning what the constitution says and does not say.
You are blind guide who has a bias toward action.
‘Ready, fire, aim.’
Why don’t actually sit down and read the constituion before you begin to make unfounded claims about what is in it?
Ken, Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see where exGOP made any claims about what’s in the Constitution.
Anyway, I guarantee you that I’ve spent more time reading and arguing in court about the Constitution than you have, and I will tell you that there are real concerns in this law.
And, just to nit pick, the Constitution doesn’t “mandate” any “responsibility” in the federal government to “protect the citizens.” It grants the government (Congress mostly) certain “powers.” The power to do something is not necessarily the same as the responsibility to do something. Why don’t you actually sit down and read the Constitution before you begin to make unfounded claims about what is in it?
“Ken, Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see where exGOP made any claims about what’s in the Constitution.”
Hal @ May 4, 2010 11:03 PM
see Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at May 3, 2010 5:15 PM
So, Hal,
Could you please pretend you are arguing in court. What are your “real concerns” with the law (the AZ House version)?
Janet, this article expresses views similar to mine:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/05/the_authors_of_arizonas_immigr.html#more
Hal @ 11;49 AM,
That’s a political opinion piece written with the sole purpose of making Republicans look bad – like they “retreated” . (Because a few words were changed in the law???) The author is not arguing against the Constitutionality of the law in court – which is what you are contending.
Republicans do look bad. That’s not my fault.
The article, however, points out that they were forced to make concessions (i.e., retreat) to save the law. Maybe they did. The current version might survive a challenge. We’ll see.
Hal: “Republicans do look bad. That’s not my fault.”
I disagree that the Repubs look BAD, and I didn’t say anything was your fault.
And regarding the Constitution and your earlier comment on power and responsibility….
Hal: “The power to do something is not necessarily the same as the responsibility to do something.”
The Constitution grants specific powers (or authority) to protect citizen’s rights – Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness). I agree with you that responsibility is different from power. Responsibility for something is close to meaningless unless authority to do it is granted first. (I also agree with you that you were “nit-picking” with Ken’s comments. :)
Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness is in the Declaration of Independence, not the US Constitution. More nit picking.
Hal,
I stand corrected.
I guess you’ve won your case.
Congrats.
I was glad to see the quick response on the part of the Arizona legislature and gov to clarify the conditions surrounding the application of the new law. Whereas some take this as a sign of weakness and crow about it signaling a retreat, I see it as a sign of strength. Imgaine: a legislative body and chief executive that actually listens to and responds affirmatively when they see the possibility of language being mis-applied. Some other legislative bodies and executives would dig in to defend their positions, to h___ with the critics. My hat is off to the Arizonians.
Hi Jerry,
I just enjoy watching the Arizonans give Obama the finger. By this point in Obama’s administration, both health care reform and “immigration reform” were supposed to be done deals, guaranteeing Democrats would be permanently in power.
This attempt to bomb Times Square is just another example of how our gov’t protects the citizens of this country.
We should all sleep better at nite knowing Sherlock Napolitano is in charge. Small wonder the Arizonans took matters into their own hands.
Mary, no party will be permanently in power.
And, the arrest, confession, and ultimate conviction of the Times Square bomber is not an indictment of the Obama Administration. It look like they all did their jobs well in this case.
Hal,
Adding all the illegal immigrants to the voters rolls would have tipped the scales for the Democrats. That was why “immigration reform” was on the Obama agenda. Too bad his timing is off.
You forget Hal that Democrats have voters who show their blind loyalty time and again while getting nothing in return.
I didn’t say the Times Square incident was an indictment of the Obama administration, but Hal, don’t you wonder about the incompetents in charge of our national security when people who should be on watch lists are not, have no trouble clearing airport security and boarding a plane at the last minute after planting a bomb, and are not caught until the plane is taking off?
You and I have two entirely different ideas as to what doing one’s job well consists of.
Maybe AG Holder will figure out that attempting to put on terrorist show trials in NYC is not impressing our enemies very much, other than giving them a good laugh.
Mary:
I agree that the Dems’ agenda is behind schedule. They held the House for 40 years straight until Newt and company unseated them and they never really could get over the idea that they were out of power. Their trying to enlist millions of new Dem supporters per amnesty and free health care is a naked attempt to return to the power base they had enjoyed for decades.
However the problem we have now with the Dems versus pre-1994 is that today they are socialists through and through. They used to hold American values. Today we cannot even count of them to vote correctly on basic things like the definition of marriage. They are lost, and people are starting to figure out that Obama and the whole gang of them are frauds.
However the problem we have now with the Dems versus pre-1994 is that today they are socialists… Posted by: Jerry at May 5, 2010 11:29 AM
Yes, according to the American Socialist Voter, there are 70 in Congress and they represent nearly half of the Judiciary Committee. I’m glad Tea Partiers are calling attention to this because the Republicans don’t seem to have the guts to do it.
Hi Jerry and FedUp,
I have a serious issue with our “elected representatives” shoving their middle fingers in our faces. The Democrats have gotten to the point of a near dictatorship. The American people got “health care reform” shoved down our throats, with Democrats openly offering and accepting bribes. I could not comprehend their following Obama off a cliff.
Republicans finally grew a pair or two, but if they had sooner, they wouldn’t have been wiped out in 2006. I’m sorry to say I don’t underestimate the ability of the Republicans to throw this golden opportunity down the toilet.
Wow – the crazies are out today.
Just keep in mind that Obama won the election quite easily with a very strong Democratic mandate overall.
The biggest issue with health care reform was that for once, a party didn’t do it quickly overnight – it was a long process so everyone knew about it. How long did the Patriot Act take to pass? Or what hour of the night did the Medicare expansion pass?
I do agree that the GOP has a golden opportunity. Anytime a party has control, the pendulum will naturally shift back. It will be interesting to see if the GOP finds a message by the fall. Newest Gallup poll of generic candidate has Dems-GOP split evenly – and the enthusiasm gap just got cut in half. A long time until the elections still – will be interesting to see.
EGV,
Keep in mind that Obama also won with the help of a lapdog media, a teleprompter, his own charisma, and Americans taken in by empty political buzzwords. Tell me EGV, exactly what else qualified Obama to be president?
He had the House and Senate, yet it would take a year of bribery and backroom deals to get “health reform” passed, against the will of the American people. Oh I forgot, those angry voters at the townhall meetings were all part of a right wing plot.
Let’s not forget that Executive Order that simpering prima donna Stupak demanded for his vote. How quickly Obama signed, though that EO wasn’t worth wiping Stupak’s fanny with.
We escaped a bombing in Times Square by sheer dumb luck and the bomber’s stupidity. Not because of the competence of Obama’s homeland security. Even this nitwit just about outwitted Napolitano and Holder.
The state controlled media lamented the fact it was a Muslim! Damn, why couldn’t it have been an angry white male tea party member?!
Rasmussen has the GOP up. I read that more black candidates are running as…Republicans! Under an Obama presidency of all things.
But then I could never understand the blind devotion black Americans always gave the Democrat party that founded the KKK as its terrorist arm and instituted segregation in the south.
I don’t get the fascination with the MSM bias? The only people who watch the main news channels are old people anyways – and they lean right.
Obama was mainly qualified as being the anti-Bush. After eight years of being a joke around the world and dialing America the wrong way, Obama was uniquely qualified to turn around out standing in the world and at home. Now, he’ll never live up to the expectations that he had – but he was an easy choice (and the final numbers showed it) – especially against a massively weak McCain-Palin ticket (though I’ll always wonder how close McCain-Lieberman would have made it).
He passed a massive pillar of the Democratic platform that has been in the world since Truman. He could literally sit on the deck for 3 more years, leave office, and still have usher in more change than any President in recent memory. Who cares how he got it done – people have already forgotten how the Medicare bill went down – this will be forgotten soon as well – though the bill will be around for years as his legacy.
I think we’ve been massively blessed to not have anything near some of the bombings and disasters we’ve had in the past. Dumb luck or not, I think it is wrong to play political games with issues like that. It doesn’t matter how much government oversight is involved – the chances for somebody like Tim McVeigh and the 9/11 terrorists will always be out there – and those in office need to figure out how to work together to keep protecting us.
Rasmussen has had a GOP lean for quite a while – I pointed you in the direction of a statistical analysis of it – guess you didn’t read it. I think the GOP will pick up about 7 seats in the senate – they will make gains. A very easy price to pay for getting health care reform (and soon to be wall street reform) done. Very easy price to pay.
The GOP will have an interesting tight-rope to walk. The study regarding racist attitudes in the tea party vs the realization that blacks can win elections. GOP will also have to figure out how to keep latino vote with their love for the Arizona bill. I’m not blasting the GOP on this – I’m just saying they have some very interesting decisions regarding how they run elections this year. I think a “contract with America” part 2 makes sense if they can dial up the substance. With the internet and the spread of info, it sure is a whole new world they have to wade through.
EGV,
Being anti-Bush qualifies Obama as president? Does being anti-disease qualify one as a doctor?
Old right wingers watch the MSM? Uh no, EGV, we don’t.
Obama was qualified to improve our standing in the world? How pray tell. In case you haven’t noticed, world tyrants are giving him the finger. I wonder when he’ll figure out that schmoozing with the world’s dictators doesn’t win their respect.
McCain lost because he believed in everything and stood for nothing. He was busy playing nice. I was bitterly disappointed in him as a candidate. If anything Palin gave that ticket a much needed boost.
He passed a massive pillar of the Democrat platform, I’ll give you that. He passed a bill the American people did not want with bribery and arm twisting and the “people’s representatives” shoving their middle fingers in their constituents’ faces. Kind of sounds like what happens in dictatorships. If you find this acceptable, so be it. Medicare! Oh, that gov’t fiasco. I wish he would sit in his office another 3 years and do nothing. We should be so lucky!
Uh EGV, these incidents did not occur under Bush after 9/11, they occured under Obama. Do you think undermining our Intelligence agencies, talk of closing Gitmo, playing nice to our enemies, and appointing total incompetents is sending a message to out enemies?
Don’t make political hay of this? Spare me. Its was the MSM that falsely reported a white male and an MSNBC reporter who snivelled how she hoped this wasn’t a Muslim. Oh, and didn’t Mayor Bloomberg assume it was a domestic terrorist opposed to health care reform? Political correctness rules supreme.
Racist attitudes in the Tea Party. EGV, it wasn’t a tea party member who suggested that Obama couldn’t sell watermelons on the side of a road, nor was it a tea party member who suggested Obama would be fetching his coffee a year or so earlier. It was Dan Rather and Bill Clinton respectively. Oh, and wasn’t it Harry Reid(D) who had some comment about “light skinned Negro with no Negro dialect”? Yes, let’s discuss racism.
Anyway, odd that such a “racist” organization as the tea party would support black candidates. Why don’t they run as Democrats?
Don’t be so certain the price will be so easy to pay EGV. The bill hasn’t come due yet.
Cracker jack of issues:
Demographics: “The median age of nightly news viewers was 61 years, according to data provided by Magna Global USA, a media services firm. That figure is up from the past few years, when it was roughly 60 years of age. There were virtually no differences across the three networks.” 2008- State of News Media
Obama – he just had to beat the other ticket, which was easy once Palin was on board. The greatest gift to an Obama 2nd term would be Palin running aginst him. She’s right up there with Hillary in regards to people having cemented views on her.
I think you should study history a bit more and find out what a real dictatorship is about. Pandering votes and twisting arms is what has happened for years and what will happen for years. No shots were fired, nobody was bloodied. It is a joke of an argument really.
Again – who watched MSM except for old people? I’m sure a lot of stuff was reported wrong right away – it was right after the shooting at Fort Hood shooting. It happened after 9/11. I don’t get your point? Would you be happy if we had another 9/11 under Obama? I’m not sure what you are wishing for here?
In regards to the tea party, I’m just talking about the numbers from Parkers study at U of Washington. Yes – there’s folks from both sides who say racist things – but look at the comprehensive numbers.
Hi Mary. Do you suppose koolaid toxicity will be a covered benefit under Obamacare?
I don’t get the fascination with the MSM bias? The only people who watch the main news channels are old people anyways – and they lean right.
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at May 5, 2010 8:27 PM
A little ageism there, EGV? Because more viewers may be older and more conservative the bias in coverage is ok, right?
The biggest issue with health care reform was that for once, a party didn’t do it quickly overnight – it was a long process so everyone knew about it.
Yeah, there weren’t any closed doors meetings and it was all transparent, right? That’s why Pelosi said they had to pass it to find out what was in it, right?
I am not surprised that you would refer to length of process as the “biggest issue” when bipartisan opposition and constitutional questions remain. You’re a real progressive trooper, I’ll give you that much, EGV.
Who cares how he got it done
And you felt the same way about Pres Bush, right? You feel the same way about securing the border, right? The ends justify the means regardless who does it, right?
this will be forgotten soon as well
ROFL. You wish.
No shots were fired, nobody was bloodied. It is a joke of an argument really.
Indeed, the argument you use is laughable. Power grabs aren’t always bloody and violent, are they? Nice spin though.
odd that such a “racist” organization as the tea party would support black candidates.
Posted by: Mary at May 5, 2010 9:31 PM
Careful, you might confuse his “cemented views” with facts, Mary :)
Ex:
“Who cares how he got it done – people have already forgotten how the Medicare bill went down – this will be forgotten soon as well – though the bill will be around for years as his legacy”.
Sorry, that line of thinking does not work anymore. The “spend now, worry about it later” government credit card is maxed out. Medicare was already broke, even before our clever politicians stole 500 billion from it to make Obamacare’s cost seem less onerous. When people start seeing the quality of their care diminished and rationing implemented I assure you this will not be “forgotten”.
Ask the people of Greece what they think about the massive government debt that has resulted in the imposition of draconian austerity measures. Last I looked they were rioting and people were dying.
Legacy? Dream on! Unless we get some adults running the government here, and soon, O’s legacy will be more like that of Greece.
Mary:
Yes, it was a major disappointment to the hate America crowd that the NY bomber was not a white guy. And, right again, better yet had the would be bomber been against the health bill–thank you Bloomberg.
By the way, have you seen even the slightest embarassment from these folks? Of course not. They are all brain dead.
Hi Jerry,
Now they’re whining about “racism” against Middle easterners and Muslims! Like they would have been so concerned about such prejudice if it had been a tea party member. Heck, they would have done handstands!
EGV,
61y/o is old?? They lean right? On what do you base this? Fed Up makes a good point about ageism.
Obama had only to beat a candidate who was a schmoozer, stood for nothing and seemed determined to lose. Obama had a lapdog media determined to see him win. Obama had millions of gullible Americans mesmerized by charisma, empty rhetoric, political buzzwords, a great teleprompter, and a messianic figure who was even pictured by the media with what looked like halos. I’ve stopped wondering how such educated and cultured people as the Germans could be so mesmerized and led to their destruction by an Austrian corporal turned street thug.
I think you need to study history EGV. I said Obama’s actions remind me of a dictator. Dictators don’t always shoot their way into power or maintain it with thuggery. They also have gullible populations (American, German) who put some charismatic demogogue in power. They have “people’s representatives” who mindlessly do the leader’s bidding. They have a lapdog media with no concept of real journalism that acts as the leader’s personal stenographers. Little by little they seize power, usually of the health care system, financial institutions, and major industry. Sound familiar?
I’m certainly not wishing for another 9/11 under Obama. I’m concerned about that the attempted terrorist attacks and the Fort Hood shootings are the result of our enemies knowing weakness and incompetence when they see it, and being emboldened because of it. This didn’t occur under Bush’s watch but it is under Obama’s. Our fearless leader has yet to comprehend that schmoozing up to the world’s tyrants and people who hate the U.S. does not earn their respect. Bowing to world leaders, apologizing for the country, and telling our enemies under what circumstances we will use nuclear weapons must have our enemies scratching their heads, in between bouts of hysterical laughter.
Comprehensive numbers from a study? EGV, my daughter has had research published as a first name author and will likely have another study published shortly. She has told me the most important rule of research is that no one study ever gives a final answer to any question or settles an issue. There will always be another study to counter it, and one to counter that. So maybe we should forego the studies and listen to the rhetoric and observe the actions. When its tea party people saying that Obama can’t sell watermelons or would be serving them coffee, then we’ll talk racism.
Mary:
I have to laugh. The “61” number as “old”? That went right by me. The fact of the matter is that “61” is at the apex of the baby boomers. I am one of the tens of millions of those baby boomers, many of who would bristle at the thought that “61” is “old”. What does the bible say—something about he who does not reach 100 will be thought a mere youth—or some words to that effect. 100 is a nice round number that seems “old” to me.
At any rate it seems our friend “ex” is a true believer. Anything lord Obama and his minions come up with such as Obamacare is, well, wonderful. And of course it is not hard in a media world dominated by people falling all over themselves in support of Obama’s every move to find glowing reports about how eveything he touches turns to gold.
Your observation about Obama’s stature among world leaders is by far our most serious concern. Obama worshipers cannot conceive how anybody can think anything negative about their hero, but the hard reality is that these pathological tyrants despise weakness. They see Obama as a true weakling and they hold him in contempt. It is a good thing we have armed forces second to none that our enemies cannot be absolutely sure would not crush them in an instant should they press us too far.
These Obama worshippers remind me of the mother whose son, caught red handed in the commission of a crime, is nonetheless convinced of his innocence. Like that believing mother the Obama worshippers yield no ground in their defense of him.
In this context your observations about the psychological profile of dictators and their adoring public is right on. History is full of this and whether or not our narcissistic liar-in-chief actually ever blooms into a full blown dictator remains to be seen. Our founders gave us elections every two years where we can completely change the make-up of the people’s house, and at least part of the senate. For our sake and our children’s sake we had better take that opportunity seriously.
Good morning Jerry,
My mother married her third husband at age 61 and had 28 of the best years of her life until she was recently widowed at age 90.
At age 62 my widowed boss began dating again and remarried, though tragically her husband died 10 years later.
I’m approaching 61 and work full time, travel, volunteer, and am part of a search and recovery dive team. Many “old timers” are on the team with me. It was always my dream to be part of such a team, I have no idea why, and when I turned 50y/o I figured it was now or never to start diving lessons.
So like you, I take issue with this “old” nonsense.
People are indeed mesmerized by these demagogues and view them as incapable of any wrong. Its frightening. I remember seeing footage of Nazi Germany with people literally entranced by the sight and sound of the fuehrer, like they were having a religious vision. I was dumbfounded as to how people of such education and culture as the Germans could be so taken in, mindlessly following a street thug to their destruction. I no longer wonder.
So what if Obama had no experience in running any kind of business or gov’t office. So what if he is clueless on foreign policy. So what if he is no match for the likes of Vladimir Putin and the Chinese president, not to mention Ahmadinjad. So what if he had questionable dealings in his past. One Obama robot even wrote our paper and suggested that perhaps its a good thing to elect a president with no experience for a change since the ones with experience haven’t always done a good job. So help me Jerry I read this. Sure buddy, and I suppose when you look for a doctor, lawyer, or accountant, you want someone with as little experience as possible.
Obviously demagogues can also make people lose all capacity for rational thought and good sense.
Another thing about dictators is how insidious they can be. Let’s infringe on this freedom, let’s take over this institution. Pass a law that says we must have “fairness” in broadcasting. Go after the insurance companies. Have the state dictate what we can eat.
This frightens me Jerry. My grandmother always said not to wish my life away but November can’t get here fast enough. The problem is I do not underestimate the ability of the Republicans to toss a golden opportunity in the toilet, and the gullibility of the American people.
Oh Jerry,
You might want to go to Michael Savage’s website and hear his dissertation on our MSM. I am no great fan of Michael’s but when he’s right he’s right.
What passes for journalism in this country today wouldn’t be considered fit for a high school newspaper.
Mary:
Thanks for all of your comments and observations. You use the word “mesmerized”. The true believers look upon this guy as though they are teeny boppers at a rock concert.
And then there are the people who really should know better. How could the Dems in congress be so irresponsible as to give this guy carte blanche? Like you, I cannot wait until November. Hopefully between now and then enough of our legislators will wake up and prevent even more damage being done.
I’m with you on Savage. Hard to take but often right on matters everyone else seems to miss.
On a light hearted note: Life begins at 60!!
Hey Jerry/Mary – busy Mother’s day weekend – so just getting back to this. Not going go too long here as I’m tired and I can’t imagine that I’m going to convince you of much -but just a few points:
– On the age – 61 is certainly not old – my point is, people keep complaining about the main stream media and the awful bias (CNN, ABC, Fox). My point – who the stink watches them that doesn’t already have their mind made up? Do dumb people without an opinion just watch CNN or Fox for fun? Fact is, my guess if 95% of people who watch a news channel already agree with the “bias” anyways, thus, it is why they watch it. 61 was the median age of the nightly news – again, a lot of folks in a persuasive category there?
– Mary – congrats to your daughter – I put the researchers name and university earlier if you’d like her to review the study. Yes, just one study.
– I’d like to hit a bit more on Obama – surely you two have strong opinions, and believe that I’ve “drunk the kool-aid”. That’s fine to believe that – everyone is comforted by the thought that anyone who disagrees with them is simply brainwashed.
I’m 33 – a couple of kids with one on the way. Christian – pastor’s family – job working with the military. First election (Presidential) was 96 – voted Dole. 2000, voted Bush. 2004 voted Nader as a protest vote. 2008, over to Obama. Voted GOP for US Senate, State house, and state senate seats.
Family all had been solid right for years. Now all over the place. I think the question is – who is the GOP? They certainly lost their way under Bush and still haven’t found their footing.
Obama certainly was a lot of hype, and sure, didn’t have loads of experience. On the flip side, after years of stalemate, he seemed like somebody who could get something done. Furthermore, he seemed like somebody who cared about the people more than the politics of it. I’m sure that’s a statement a whole book could be written on – but again, that was my feeling (and probably the feelings of a lot of people who voted for him in his easy victory). I was actually on the fence much of the election- but once Palin was chosen, it became easy for me.
I think Obama has done a pretty good job given the hand he was dealt. The economy is adding jobs after a near collapse. A massive failure point of the economy has had a reform bill passed – one step of many that need to happen – but at least a step. Financial reform is moving. Again, given the hand that was dealt – I think it is quite the accomplishment.
Is Obama the greatest President ever? Certainly not – but I also don’t think the Bush was the worst ever. I serve God more than a single party – and yes, I like politics, but I’m not going to let it ruin my soul with fear/anger/slander or any of the like.
Hope all is well – just wanted to explain my position a bit.
Isn’t there a kidnapping epidemic in Phoenix? How many victims are American citizens of Mexican origin. Oh, and wasn’t a Mexican American border guard shot execution style by drug runners?