Weekend question: Why the shortage of outspoken pro-choice men?
Newsweek, April 29, featured a conversation about “the future of the abortion-rights movement,” with a recurring lament about the shortage of vocal pro-abort men…
Amanda Marcotte of Pandagon: “[O]nly women are held accountable for fighting for reproductive rights. When the anti-choice side pulls energy from both men and women who are eager to halt sexual liberation and control female bodies, and pro-choicers can only look to women, we’re already running at half capacity….”
Meg Massey of Feminism 2.0: “Amanda’s right that we need to involve more pro-choice men….”
Sarah Erdreich, author and activist: “I think that one step in this process is to normalize abortion: to share the stories of not just the women who choose the procedure but also the men who also have personal abortion experiences…. I wonder if one way to engage younger men is to do a better job framing the pro-choice movement as an equality movement.”
Erin Matson of NOW: “[I]t’s important for the women’s movement to broaden its self-definition to include young women (and men – great point)….”
Nancy Keenan of NARAL: “I agree with Amanda’s point about needing men to become more vocal on our issue – she’s right on point. The perception is that men are the loud, boisterous, and ever-present faces of the anti-choice movement (Mike Huckabee, Randall Terry, Rick Santorum), while women are the leaders of the pro-choice movement. And yet, if we are to win in the political arena, we simply cannot move pro-choice legislation, defeat anti-choice attacks, and protect Roe v. Wade unless we engage both genders….”
Why do you think there is a shortage of outspoken pro-abort men?
[Photo via yale.edu]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Meg Massey of Feminism 2.0: “Amanda’s right that we need to involve more pro-choice men….”
Wait. I thought men were supposed to “stay out of the abortion issue”…
Do men perhaps know on some level that if they advocate for abortion, it reveals their own irresponsibility, their own refusal to take care of the families they help create? It highlights the fact that abortion allows men who are cads and jerks to get away with being cads and jerks!
Abortion allows men to sink to their lowest level and place the burden on women.
The pro-choice message always boils down to it being the woman’s choice, and the woman’s choice alone. I think most pro-choice men just view it as solely a women’s issue. Plus, men tend to avoid any groups or movements that could be labeled as “radical feminist” (or even just “feminist”).
In a more practical sense, men just have “less to lose” if abortion became illegal; in the view of pro-choicers, the threat of illegality carries less consequences for men than for women, since only women can become pregnant.
I think its because the feminist movement has done everything possible to tell men/make men look stupid, incompetent and all around beneath women. Why would any man in his right mind come to their aid?
But that is the feminist way. They dont want children, until they need them to carry on the pro-abort movement. They dont want men, until they need their support in their pro-abort endeavors.
What you mean telling men for 30 years that they have no say in the matter hasn’t brought them all running to your side?
Shocking!
Good point, Lauren! They spend 30 (or so) years saying “We don’t need you, we don’t need you, this is OUR issue”, then suddenly it’s “Wait! We NEED you!” Can’t have your cake and eat it too, gals.
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Besides..I didn’t know there WAS a shortage of ‘pro-choice’ men. I think there are TOO many men who are willing to let it be ‘the woman’s problem’.
Just keep yelling,”My body my choice”, and she how many girly men come to your aide!
Since you have made it impossible for the sperm donor to have any say in the abortion sin,it’s your fight…..
Is THIS what it takes for them to realize that the “abortion is a woman’s decision, not a man’s” argument is an ad hominem, a logical fallacy that is a complete garbage argument?
One more point:
MS. Marcotte mentions “….fighting for reproductive rights.”
Uh…MS Marcotte..you HAVE the ‘right’ to reproduce..
nobody’s stopping you.
It’s the ‘right’ NOT to reproduce you’re fighting for..are you confused???
Pro-choice men have been effectively neutered by the feminists. Now that they’ve created an army of lap dogs, they decide that they really want attack dogs.
It’s easier being a pro-life male. We get to be and act like men ought. And we get great women who aren’t at war with their own nature, which means they aren’t at war with the men who complement that nature and whose nature is complemented by women’s.
Maybe left-leaning guys are waking up.
Kristen, spot on. The new waves of the feminist movement has revolved around selfish gain. They don’t want to be equal with men, they want to be in control.
As I’ve said before, proabort feminists are running out of ways to have it both ways. (:
Roe vs Wade was 7-2 – all men on the court at the time. So maybe the men aren’t as loud vocally, but it looks like they are when it counts.
Not to get off of topic – but of the 7 yes votes, weren’t four or five of them appointed by Republicans?
“It’s easier being a pro-life male. We get to be and act like men ought. And we get great women who aren’t at war with their own nature”
Posted by: Gerard Nadal at May 1, 2010 12:26 PM
Why am I reminded of that old Monty Python, “men, men, men” song! How exactly “ought” a man to act? Should it be the old “age of chivalry” model of the saintly knight protecting the fair damsel? (The saintly knights, at the time, were busy killing Muslims, Jews, Byzantines, and anybody else who got in their way!). Or perhaps the Victorian model is appropriate with its mindset of strong males beating back the yellow peril and protecting the “fairer sex.” Which brings me to the question of what is a woman’s nature? Is that the belief that women are only fulfilled when they happily reproduce and produce “issue” for their manly males? The old chidless women are just so unhappy meme?
I do find it interesting that so many men are involved in the anti-choice movment as that seems to give credence to the notion that abortion is all about controlling women and what better way to suppress and control women than denying them the right to determine when and if they reproduce. It is interesting to see the protesters at the clinics. Lots of angry young men types (misogyny issues?) and grizzled old dudes with the silly posters. These are dudes who will never encounter an unplanned pregnancy or a pregnancy that would result in the birth of a mentally or physically impaired child. Many of these guys are also conservative dudes who don’t support “welfare” programs for poor women who do give birth.
abortion sin,it’s your fight…..
Posted by: John at May 1, 2010 12:16 PM
You do know that liberal Protestant faiths (Episcopal, UCC, Unitarian, to name a few) and Reformed Jews don’t view abortion as a “sin.” You do know that, don’t you?
Hi Artemis.
“I do find it interesting that so many men are involved in the anti-choice movment as that seems to give credence to the notion that abortion is all about controlling women and what better way to suppress and control women than denying them the right to determine when and if they reproduce.”
Do you really think this is the case and the whole “abortion kills an innocent human being” thing is just some ad hoc cover for our real agenda of controlling women?
When the anti-choice side pulls energy from both men and women who are eager to halt sexual liberation . . .
Why do PC’ers always think that we are trying to stop them from having sex? I don’t care what two consenting adults do, just don’t hurt or kill anybody!
But, on the other hand, ‘sexual liberation” hasn’t worked out too well for women. We’re the ones who bear the brunt of the those nasty STI’s, have to face unplanned pregnancies ALONE because nowadays a man is considered a hero if he pays for the “procedure.”
This is off topic, but I just saw a special earlier today talking about Albert Pujols and his foundation. He has a little girl with DS and has a foundation dedicated to programs for kids and families affected by DS. He’s doing a lot to raise awareness and help with acceptance. Oh, and his daughter with DS is his adoptive daughter as well. He met his wife (who was at the time a single mother) right after the baby was born. She was sure he’d run the other way when he found out that she had a daughter with DS, but instead he did just the opposite.
Anyway, I’m not even a Cardinals fan, but I can’t help but like him after hearing that!
Pro-life men are just much more attractive in every way than pro-chioce men.
I realize that at this point, I’m just chiming in, but I pretty much agree with what everyone (less Artemis, who is a troll and doesn’t count) has said. The pro-choice side has spent decades telling everybody “This is a woman’s choice and no one else’s! Therefore, nobody else can be involved!” The logical conclusion for men who are pro-choice to take from that is, “I have to let the women run this show entirely.”
By contrast, the pro-life movement is, and always has been, welcoming of men. Because to be pro-life is to be about equality. We don’t need to frame our movement that way, it already is that way naturally. All men, all women, all of everyone who is a member of the human species is equally valuable no matter what. The pro-choice movement, by its very definition, is always placing unequal value on someone or another. Whether it’s the man’s voice in the discussion or the child’s right to live, every argument they put forward takes away from someone else’s right to do something.
Pro-choice men surrendered their voice, willingly. Pro-life men have never been asked to.
Duh. Because whenever men say anything about abortion, pro-choicers tell them to shut up because they are men and it’s a women’s issue. “Our bodies, our choice.” Can’t really engage men when you behave like that.
On another note, I attended an abortion debate at the University of MN yesterday between Dr. Peter Kreeft (a pro-life philosopher) and Dr. (something) Boonin (a pro-choice philosopher). Dr. Boonin began by CONCEEDING the fact that a fetus is a human person and that it has the right to life. He then claimed that the right to life does NOT include the right to use another person’s body to keep you alive. (Insert beefed up analogy of person needing your bone marrow for a transplant here. I’m sure you’ve heard it before.) What was interesting is that, by his logic, the only abortions that would be ethical are those which simply remove the fetus from the mother and not those which actively kill the baby–an awkward position to take (besides the fact that the transplant analogy doesn’t fit well with the scenario of a pregnancy.)
It was interesting that he conceded the first point since you really can’t deny it and be intellectually honest. But keep an eye out for a new movement in pro-abortion thought using this new “logic” that the right to life does not include the right to live in the womb.
Scott, I’ve heard that argument. It’s easily defeated by showing that children have the right to infringe on their parents rights due to their own right to not be neglected.
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at May 1, 2010 1:48 PM
Absolutely. Empowerment of women rests on their ability to control their own fallipian tubes and uteri. The whole “killing your baby” thing is also a great guilt trip ploy, too.
Thanks to all you wonderful pro-life men who understand what equal rights for all really means!
I married and divorced a proabort. Nightmare! He constantly accused me of messing around, he accused me of not knowing who I was pregnant by, pressured me to abort, called me terrible names, broke my nose, held a gun to my head, etc. etc.
I am now married to a man who has never once raised his voice to me and has helped me raise 3 children that bio-dad has had little to do with. Oh yeah, this wonderful human is a prolifer too.
Correlation? In my experience — you betcha.
Abortion is a violent ‘choice’.
Should be “fallopian” tubes.
Interesting stuff, Scott. I bet it was a great debate.
“…Dr. (something) Boonin…”
David Boonin. He has a book out called “Defending Abortion” which is well rebutted by Frank Beckwith’s book “Defending Life.”
“But keep an eye out for a new movement in pro-abortion thought using this new “logic” that the right to life does not include the right to live in the womb. ”
This has actually been the position of the academic elite pro-choicers for some time now. I think it can be traced back to Judith Jarvis Thompson’s 1971 article “A Defense of Abortion” in which she makes the (in)famous violinist analogy where you are strapped to a violinist and the question is whether or not you are morally justified in “unplugging yourself” from him. The idea is that the situation is supposed to be analogous to abortion, so that if you’re justified in unplugging yourself from teh violinist and causing his death, then you are justified in killing your child in the womb. Very sick stuff.
I think it is because most men who are pro-choice are pro-choice because they feel it is the woman’s choice to make and they don’t realize their rights in the process. Making it the woman’s choice makes them have less of the say. How many politicians have said “I’m not going to get involved with it because women should be making the choices” that’s the way I see it anyways.
I second Pamela’s comment.
Posted by: Praxedes at May 1, 2010 2:38 PM
That’s a nice broad brush that you paint with. Are you actually saying that all anti-choice men are sweet and all pro-choice men are abusive. Interesting. Are you aware that there are many men who abuse their wives by hiding their contraceptives. It’s a phenomenon called “birth control sabotage. While we can’t say if these POS’s are “pro-life,” it’s clear that this is abusive behavior.
http://www.impactresearch.org/documents/birthcontrolexecutive.pdf
Is this something that you anti-aborts say is a good thing because it “saves babies?” On one hand, it’s abusive; but on the other, some of the contraceptives could be abortion inducing. So where do you come down on this one?
And as a lifelong pro-choicer, I don’t care about “involvement” of men other than whether they have the power to vote on abortion – which is why I always vote for pro-choice candidates be they men or women. I also like to see men as clinic guards as it shows the diversity (such as it is) of the pro-choice movement. It’s really neat when we have Protestant clergy (both male and female.)
I was there, too, Scott. My thoughts on Dr. Boonin’s “no one has a right to use another person’s body to stay alive” argument were echoed partially by the gentleman who explained it could be applied to all of parenthood. Parents work, using their bodies to earn an income and are expected to use that income to shelter, feed, and clothe their children. If I don’t, my parental rights can be taken from me by the state, or if that refusal to use my body to keep them alive leads to their deaths, I am criminally culpable.
My children will eventually be able to use their own bodies to work and keep themselves alive. As 4-week embryos their dependence was total, at 6 months post-birth, still largely dependent on me, at 6 years, less so, and at 15, even less. Essentially it’s a continuum where they achieve independence from a parent (though one could argue we are all dependent on farmers to produce crops, etc.)
Dr. Boondin’s responses about pre- and post-viability abortions boil down to this: the more dependent someone is on you, the more morally permissible it is to kill them. Consider Stephanie Grey’s excellent analogy of flying in a plane, when the pilot and co-pilot strap on parachutes and bail out, leaving you to the imminent crash. Now, are they more or less responsible for your life because you need them to remain in the cockpit, as the only ones who can fly the plane? I’d argue they are more responsible (say, than if any empty plane crashes & no one is injured/killed).
One more scenario came to mind this a.m. Setting aside what happens to abused people psychologically which can make it difficult for them to distance themselves from those doing the abuse, take two women: The first has a steady job, no children, her own vehicle and friends and family with whom she keeps in regular contact. Her husband becomes physically abusive and continues the abuse over a long period of time. Most people would think, “Just leave him!” particularly as her situation might appear to make that easier than the second woman’s scenario.
This second woman is sister to an abusive brother who is her caretaker as she is wheel-chair bound, with the understanding of a six year old. She has little contact with the outside world and very little recourse to get help. Though abuse is heinous in any circumstance, Dr. Boonin’s pre- and post-viability stance leads to the conclusion that the brother’s abuse is morally permissible because of the sister’s greater dependence on him. Most people would find the greater vulnerability of the second woman makes the abuse all the more despicable.
Just for the record, I began typing my lengthy comment right after Scott’s entry, before any of the other abuse issues came up. I’m so glad for you, Praxedes, that you were able to get out. The scenario occurred to me because of a sister who had children but (thank God!) is now free of her abuser.
Artemis, does that mean you are the dreaded SINGLE ISSUE VOTER?
Forgot to add — all these “really neat” pro-choice Protestant demoninations are losing members rapidly (United Methodist, Presbyterian, etc.). They’ve gone from being “mainline” to “sideline.” In fact, a Lutheran church building in my neighborhood was sold to a Christian Indian congregation, which is good, because South Indian Christians tend to be very prolife!
Please. Pro-life men don’t care if women want to remove their fallopian tubes and fashion them into creative headgear – at least, not to the extent that they’d want to make it illegal. Who was it on this site who said something a couple months back about “It’s the babies, stupid”?
I agree with everyone who said that the pro-choice movement has been saying “it’s a women’s issue” for decades and now all of a sudden they wonder where the men of the movement are. Um, you told them to go away…
Pamela, they have the right to not reproduce too. They DON’T have the right to reproduce and then kill their offspring.
I will continue to fight for a woman’s right to choose. I am happy and proud to be a pro-choice male. I think we do need to be more vocal and I will happily recruit men of sound mind to join the cause.
A woman’s right to choose what, Jake? Drop the euphenisms.
“Why do you think there is a shortage of outspoken pro-abort men?”
‘Cause pro-aborts don’t respect or like men all that much.
MAY 1, 2010
Weekend question: Why the shortage of outspoken pro-choice men?
Aborted?
I will continue to fight for a woman’s right to choose. I am happy and proud to be a pro-choice male. I think we do need to be more vocal and I will happily recruit men of sound mind to join the cause.
Posted by: Jake at May 1, 2010 4:51 PM
Hint. Any guy who supports abortion is not interested in what is good for women.
————
You do know that liberal Protestant faiths (Episcopal, UCC, Unitarian, to name a few) and Reformed Jews don’t view abortion as a “sin.” You do know that, don’t you?
Posted by: Artemis at May 1, 2010 1:35 PM
You know, it doesn’t matter if any group of (nominally religious) people gets together and says this or that is not a sin. In a religion only the deity decides. The opinions of the followers count for nothing. It is a top down enterprise. The only option for followers is obedience to the deity. The function of religious leaders is to communicate the deity’s wishes to the followers, not stick his finger in the wind to find out what the followers want the deity to require, and then assert that their wishes are now his commands.
Artemis tells me, “That’s a nice broad brush that you paint with.”
Maybe you didn’t notice my words, “In my experience”. Of course I realize there are exceptions to almost everything. I was speaking from my experiences.
You and I are on the opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to our position regarding abortion. This holds true for our position about birth control as well.
Jake says, “I am happy and proud to be a pro-choice male.” Jake, haven’t you heard? You DO NOT have a choice regarding whether a woman aborts or not.
Jake and Artemis — Have you ever supported or financially contributed to a woman’s choice to abort your child?
“Why do you think there is a shortage of outspoken pro-abort men?”
Here is a small reason some boys don’t mention abortion in public.
For pro-abortion boys who are out on the prowl to bed females being vocally pro-choice runs counter to the lies he depends on to seduce girls.
Lies such as: “I luv ya babe.” “I’ll support you.” “I will always be there for you.” etc. Most promiscuous girls like to at least feel secure and protected by the boy they are with tonight…just like real women. So lines like these tend to work on them.
Telling a woman, even a pro-choice girl, that you’re willing to help her get an abortion sort of takes the mood off. It highlights the connections between sexual pleasure, procreation and the lack of real love between them. Promiscuous immature boys don’t mention abortion unless they have to. You can get more girls if you keep it quiet.
Of course, if you are seducing a vocal feminist it don’t matter what you say anyway so all bets are off.
Artemiss:
“Which brings me to the question of what is a woman’s nature?”
Artemiss, I worked in Times Square for seven years in the 1980’s with teens who were mostly sexually abused at home, a great many who were trying to leave a life of prostitution on the streets.
Far too many also presented with substance abuse problems, criminal histories, and a small basket of psychological and psychiatric diagnoses.
In all of that, I would say that these children were far better off than you for one single reason:
They were possessed of a sense that this wasn’t supposed to be, that they were wronged, that they deserved better. Many, MANY would come in to the office late at night and speak in operational terms of how they wished their lives could be, how their lives OUGHT to be based on the “respect” they felt and knew was their due. They used that word “respect” quite a bit in the proper context of their dignity which proceeds from their nature.
They got it.
Of all the profoundly sad and heartbreaking stories from those children and post-abortive women that I have heard, stories numbering in the hundreds, I must say that this single quote of yours above is without a doubt the most shocking and devastating I’ve ever heard.
By your own admission, you are completely dissociated from your own nature. It follows that you are similarly cut off from the dignity that flows from that nature. The comments that you offer in amplification of that statement speak for themselves.
I’m not going to play into your hand and tell you the answer. I’ll let the women here tell that to you.
How devastating that teen prostitutes who had been ad by thousands of men were better possessed of a sense of their own nature than you. Devastating.
As for women’s great dignity that they feel is lost after abortion, I offer the following from Pope John Paul II:
“From the Encyclical Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life) #99:
“I would like to say a special word to women who have had an abortion. The Church is aware of the many factors which may have influenced your decision, and she does not doubt that in many cases it was a painful and even shattering decision. The wound in your heart may not yet have healed. Certainly what happened was and remains terribly wrong. But do not give in to discouragement and do not lose hope. Try rather to understand what happened and face it honestly.
“If you have not already done so, give yourselves over with humility and trust to repentance. The Father of mercies is ready to give you his forgiveness and his peace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. You will come to understand that nothing is definitely lost and you will also be able to ask forgiveness from your child, who is now living in the Lord.
“With the friendly and expert help and advice of other people, and as a result of your own painful experience, you can be among the most eloquent defenders of everyone’s right to life. Through your commitment to life, whether by accepting the birth of other children or by welcoming and caring for those most in need of someone to be close to them, you will become promoters of a new way of looking at human life.
Jake,
Being a part of the grisly pro-death mob and having a sound mind are mutually exclusive camps.
Either you are greatly deceived, or ignorant.
Educate yourself by studying the Grantham Collection. Then come on back with your commentary.
Thanks for your comments Tommy. It took me a long to figure this out all the lies with husband #1. He used these exact lines with me and had me believing he was prolife on top of it. Until reality hit and I became pregnant.
The first time he hit me was during pregnancy and he was always more abusive (and drunk) when I was pregnant. Years later he apologized and told me that when I was pregnant, he was reminded of the two abortions he had previously paid for (one of these woman came to me later and told me she aborted right before I became pregnant with our first baby).
I tell young women about these ‘tricks’ any chance I can. I think it would make a much bigger impression on them if more men filled them on this as well.
Abortion causes more of the problems it promises to solve.
Lauren wrote “A woman’s right to choose what, Jake? Drop the euphenisms.”
Lauren, I support a woman’s right to choose to kill the fetus growing in her uterus. Is that clear enough for you???
Ed,
Thank you for that wonderful link. I checked out your site, and I have changed my mind. Oh wait, no I didn’t, I still support a woman’s right to choose to kill the fetus growing in her uterus.
Jake,
God have mercy on you. You blithely say you support a woman’s right to kill…
No one has the right to kill.
Do not be so cavalier about the destruction of human life.
I pity you.
Oh, it’s Jake, the man who believes abused children would be better off dead – including his own sons, if their parents were to die and they were to be abused. Congratulations on dropping the euphemisms, but I still think anyone who talks about the death of his children – even the imaginary death of his children – in such detached terms is a sociopath.
Jake,
You forgot me. ):
My question was: Have you ever supported or financially contributed to a woman’s choice to abort your child? (sorry I meant fetus).
A couple more if you would be so kind and have the time:
Have you ever misrepresentated your proabort view to sleep with a woman?
Have you ever pressured a woman to abort?
Do you have knowledge of your mother and/or sister/s aborting?
Did one or both of your parents ever tell you they wished they had aborted you?
Do you or have you ever financially profited in any way from the abortion industry?
Do you think the fetus in the Granthum Collection felt any pain before he was disassembled?
If yes to the previous questions, Do you care?
If no to the previous question, why do you think you do not?
Do you perform abortions?
When was the last time you lied?
Since you are happy and proud to be a proabort, I’m sure these questions are OK with you.
Thanks.
“I will continue to fight for a woman’s right to choose. I am happy and proud to be a pro-choice male. I think we do need to be more vocal and I will happily recruit men of sound mind to join the cause.
Posted by: Jake at May 1, 2010 4:51 PM”
Awesome! ?
There is a special place in my heart for pro-choice men. If abortion were to be made illegal, their liberty would not be taken away, women’s liberty would. It doesn’t affect them as directly as it affects us, so when a guy is a pro-choice advocate, you know he really cares.
I’m blessed to have a strongly pro-choice spouse. He cares about the women in his life, he doesn’t want to see their basic human rights taken away. I love him!
I asked God to show me a scripture that we could stand on to end abortion and this is what he showed me. Obadiah 1:13-21. Now I don’t understand all of it but listen to this part and judge for yourself what it sounds like. Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity: yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity. nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity. Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape: neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress. For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. The part where it says to cut off those of his that did escape, that reminds me of when the baby survives the abortion and their desire to kill is so strong they continue to pronounce death on it. That’s why I like that last verse. As thou hast done it shall be done unto thee. Proverbs 15:31 The ear that heareth the reproof of life abideth among the wise. He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding. The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom: and before honour is humility.
Pro-choice men have been effectively neutered by the feminists. Now that they’ve created an army of lap dogs, they decide that they really want attack dogs.
He said it best. they took the alpha men and made them beta men and now they complain.
Pamela, they have the right to not reproduce too. They DON’T have the right to reproduce and then kill their offspring.
Posted by: Nulono at May 1, 2010 4:27 PM
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I know. I was referring to Amanda Marcotte’s words.
Artemis writes (1:35):
“I do find it interesting that so many men are involved in the anti-choice movment as that seems to give credence to the notion that abortion is all about controlling women and what better way to suppress and control women than denying them the right to determine when and if they reproduce. It is interesting to see the protesters at the clinics. Lots of angry young men types (misogyny issues?) and grizzled old dudes with the silly posters.”
It is almost uncanny! These are the words–except exchanging the words “anti-choice” for “pro-abortion”–that I would use to describe the male choicers we see going to the clinic. Often these class examples of manhood are riding shotgun as their abortion minded sig others wheel the late model car rather quickly into the clinic parking lot. It is as disgusting a scene as one could imagine. Usually these heroes pretend to ignore those witnessing to the sanctity of human life and offering alternatives to abortion.
On occasion an open minded man will come over and engage in fruitful conversation. Some of these are torn up by what they know is going to happen and they are all ears as to how to get their friend to change her mind. We have seen tears in the eyes of those men, and with the power of prayer they have at times successfully convinced their friend that the abortion is not good for them.
Then, of course, there are those “angry young men types” who insist upon utilizing the universal symbol of ignorance, sometimes accompanied by potty mouthed innanities. What gleaming examples of manhood!
And finally the “grizzled old dudes” whom we see in their orange vests pretending to be escorts, even as they glare and gesticulate at the women offering assistance and real choice to the abortion bound women. Curious, is it not, that these men are sometimes old enough to be grandfathers, and yet they are assisting women to destroy what for some of them may be their only chance for the joys of future grandparenthood.
Next, Artemis writes:
“These are dudes (speaking of pro-lifers) who will never encounter an unplanned pregnancy or a pregnancy that would result in the birth of a mentally or physically impaired child”.
Of course, you have no way of knowing that. Actually, pro-lifers are far more likely to embrace the addition of a natural born or adopted special needs person into their lives than most. Expand you horizons a little bit and do the research on this.
Or maybe you are offering these conditions as parameters; i.e. aborting only the “mentally or physically impaired child”. Are you suggesting, Artemis, that this is the path for a real man–to want his special needs child to be killed before he or she sees the light of day?
@klynn73
I was the guy at the microphone right after the guy you mentioned who said that children continue to use their parents’ bodies after they are born. When Dr. Boonin said that he felt that his views weren’t incompatible with his belief against infanticide even in light of that man’s argument, I responded that his views “absolutely” were incompatible with that. Then I asked him to clarify that, based on his stated beliefs, he cannot say embryonic stem cell research is ok, nor abortion past viability, nor abortions which actively kill the baby. And I should have followed up by asking what he thinks we should do with those “removed” fetuses. To not place them on life support would be neglect, right?
After the debate, I succinctly debunked his analogy to him personally by showing that the bone marrow transplant analogy is unnatural and pregnancy is natural. Everybody has to gestate in the womb to mature, without exception. It is natural and universal. But to force a marrow transplant is unnatural and extreme. This is why people intuitively think the sick person doesn’t have a right to your donated marrow. But his analogy doesn’t apply to pregnancy.
To be a better analogy (although still quite sufficiently lacking) he would have to set up a scenario in which EVERYONE in the world needed a marrow transplant-say at age 20-in order to develop further and live to a ripe old age. This would just be the natural order of things and the natural progression of our species. If we lived in such a universe, you bet your bottom that we would create society, morals, and norms, such that you would be required to donate marrow and it would be immoral not to, simply because that would be natural to our species and necessary for our species’ survival. We each would have a “right” to a marrow transplant. Therefore, because pregnancy is natural and necessary to our species’ development, it does not apply to the morality of his initial analogy and his whole argument falls apart.
He then mumbled something about my claim being a variation of the golden rule, which he claimed to have already debunked. I was not appealing to the golden rule, however, but to natural law and order. Unfortunately, that was the end of our discussion, but hopefully I gave him something to think about since he seemed at least somewhat open to other ideas. I really wish Dr. Kreeft had appealed to natural law more forcefully.
Aren’t these the same gals who don’t want men to open doors for them? They are insulted and offended when men treat them as ladies & not sex objects. Why would any man wanna rush to their aid? They are woman. Hear them roar! They don’t need any mans help! You reap what you sow.
Jake: “Lauren, I support a woman’s right to choose to kill the fetus growing in her uterus.”
Thank you for at least being forthright.
Now print that on your bumper sticker and you’ll be off to the races!
“Aren’t these the same gals who don’t want men to open doors for them?”
In a polite society, everybody opens doors for EACH OTHER.
ProChoiceGal, I don’t know your husband, but as for the generic “a guy” – no, it does not necessarily mean he cares about women. “Sure, honey, go ahead and have an abortion. I totally support your right to choose. Of course I do, I don’t want to have to pay child support for eighteen years, so I’ll just let you bail me out of this one.”
Who do you think “blessed” you with a husband who supports the dismemberment of growing human beings? God? If you believe there’s some higher to power to bless you, do you think this higher power allows children to be conceived and then happily smiles down as their limbs are ripped from their bodies?
Or, even worse: “Yeah, that *$%#ing slut had better have an abortion. I’m not getting stuck with some kid because I $*@!ed his *$%#ing whore of a mother. If the bitch wasn’t on the pill, it’s her own *#$%ing fault.”
Ack – “higher power”, not “higher to power”.
What kind of man would admit that he is a pro-abort especially if he fathered children that he later was intrumental in terminating?
What a hoot,
Weren’t these the very ladies who argued that men have no right to oppose abortion? OK, its only fair they then have no right to support it. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Why do they have any need for men? Don’t they have enough women to power this movement?
Several months ago I registered to become a bone marrow donor. So long as there is no risk to myself or anyone else–with bone marrow transplant I don’t think there is risk outside of the anesthesia–I do think I would be obligated to donate if I knew I was a match for someone. I don’t necessarily say that everyone is obligated to the same, but I think I would be a pretty lousy excuse for a human being (and a worse excuse for a Christian) if I registered and then refused to actually donate marrow with no reason.
But the analogy is far from perfect. If I were matched as a bone marrow donor, or if I became pregnant:
1. The human being who needed the bone marrow would exist regardless of whether I had registered as a donor. The human being who needs my womb would not exist had I not chosen to have sex.
2. It is theoretically possible, though unlikely, another match could be found for the person in need of bone marrow. At this point, it would be impossible to find another womb for the child I conceived (after implantation, anyway, and it’s unlikely I’d know before).
3. I would need to take an action to consent to bone marrow donation and go through the procedure. If I became pregnant, I would need to take an action to stop the pregnancy. In one case I need to be proactive, in the other I need only let nature take its course (though in my case, miscarriage is very likely without a careful diet, but this is rare).
(There are more but busy morning)
Jake? Where are you? What about my questions? Are proabort men also known for running away when times get tough?
Maurauder, I have been to Prochoice Girl’s posts and she has come here in the past. She is planning on becoming an abortionist and I think she is desperate for followers other that the 3 or so regular posters she usually gets. Must have been a slow week.
Prochoice girl has never referred to a husband that I’ve noticed before here or on her posts but only a boyfriend. She has talked about her bird’s passing so I can’t imagine she skipped talking about her marriage. But who knows, maybe she has both a boyfriend and a spouse or she just makes things up.
It would be much more interesting to hear from her boyfriend and/or spouse about his feelings on her choice of an occupation and thoughts about the low number of outspoken proabort males.
But he’s probably not allowed on the computer . . . .
Well Jake,
Now you’ve seen in graphic detail what it really means to be a member of the cruel, heartless, pro-death mob.
You have no excuse.
You have seen the truth.
You now have a choice. In fact, you have already made it. But I’m going to attempt to continue your education by asking you to reconsider and briefly discuss a subject that should be of great interest to you:
The condition of your heart.
I’m not referring to your blood pump. I’m talking about the real you, the inner man, your spirit and your soul.
How much time you did you spend studying the Grantham Collection, or the pictures and videos on the website? It’s important to note how bothered your conscience was by the graphic imagery.
The more bothered you were, the more hope there is for you.
This is where the journey begins, from the camp of the pro-death mob to the camp of the sound mind.
Much like the pregnant Abortioneer, Lisa Harris, who was overcome with emotion and “inexplicably” broke into tears as she was killing a child that was the same gestational age as her own growing child, if your conscience was bothered, you have hope. It means that the lie you believe, that the preborn child isn’t an innocent, defenseless person deserving your protection, hasn’t hardened your heart beyond reach. If there was part of you that has empathy for these slaughtered children, as you would feel toward a born child that you knew was suffering physical torture and abuse, there is hope for you.
There may be a whole host of reasons why you’ve decided to embrace the lie. You’re probably seeking approval and acceptance from a staunchly pro-death wife, mother, sister, or all three.
Think about these questions:
At what point would you feel completely comfortable killing one of your loved ones?
1 minute after birth?
1 minute before birth?
Why?
At what point when they were growing inside their mother’s uterus would you feel completely comfortable killing them?
At what point during your own development would it have been a good thing to kill you?
And this get’s back to the (your) heart of the matter: Suppose, God-forbid, your pregnant wife was attacked by a demented, deranged murderer. Would you mourn the loss of your child? Would you have tried to protect him/her if you could? If your wife was 8 weeks along, and she suffered permanent brain damage and was in what some doctors term, a persistent vegetative state, with no hope for recovery, yet the child was unharmed, would you kill your child or would you let him/her live?
Jake, you can continue to harden your heart to the voice of your conscience and this horrific injustice perpetrated on innocent, vulnerable children and reaffirm the lies you believe. Or you can begin a journey towards true soundness of mind and the recovery of your manhood.
There are many of us here that would help you along that journey.
What kind of man would admit that he is a pro-abort especially if he fathered children that he later was intrusmental in terminating?
Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at May 2, 2010 12:12 AM
well Hal fits this bill. :(
I think the men who are proabortion are really quite happy to have women who are all for contraception and abortion.
This negates ANY responsibility on their part for the children they sire.
It fuels their promiscuous lifestyle just fine, thank you.
They don’t need to become a part of this movement at all. The women are doing all their work for them just fine, thank you very much.
Modern feminism hasn’t freed women. It has enslaved us even more. In the same way , that communism was suppose to free the workers and the poor. :(
Praxedes: You’re right – I remember her talking about wanting to be an abortionist, but I forgot that it was a boyfriend, not a husband.
You know what, ProChoiceGal? Thinking about your previous comments and reading a little bit of your blog, I think you’re twenty at the absolute most, very possibly still in high school, and are so gung-ho about abortion because that’s your form of adolescent rebellion. You think on a very adolescent level. The bit on your blog about pro-lifers “stealing” the idea of a day of silence from the GLBT movement is on par with a teenage girl who’s mad because a girl she hates bought the same dress to wear to the dance. “Oh my God, she TOTALLY stole my idea! She KNEW I liked that dress, and she thinks she can just go and BUY ONE HERSELF.”
News flash: you don’t get to own, copyright, or have sole domination over a basic idea. By your logic, the women’s suffrage activists “stole” the idea of a march on Washington from Coxey’s Army.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protest_marches_on_Washington,_D.C.
But oh my GOD, another clique “stole” from your clique. Time to go down to the drug store and meet to decide when and where the rumble will take place.
Your thinking is on an adolescent level because it’s based solely on your feelings and what you want to believe in order to justify your feelings. It’s not about logic or data or even medical science – if you think abortion killing women is an “anti-choice lie”, you’re just flat-out uneducated. News flash number two: all surgery comes with a risk of death. Remember when Kanye West’s mother died from plastic surgery? You’ve never heard of septicemia, hemorrhaging, or simple medical malpractice? You really don’t think uterine trauma can lead to infertility? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: you’re willfully blind.
Still curious to know how you think women will react to a pregnant abortionist, by the way, when you’re pregnant with one of those babies you want. Or if you’ll tell your older children that their unborn little sister isn’t really a human being. Or if you’ll go on maternity leave from the abortion clinic and have a little going-away party with your co-workers mere feet from all the tiny dismembered arms and legs.
There is no such thing as a pro-choice man; a pro-choice male, perhaps.
Real men defend, protect and provide for innocent, vulnerable children being attacked.
I believe abortion is one of God’s primary litmus tests.
As a mother, it requires tremendous sacrifice and love to raise a child. A young mom demonstrates love, courage and sacrifice when she carries her child to term and gives him/her away to adoptive parents.
This is how we glorify God through the genders He has given us. Whether it’s the nurturing love of a caring mother or the protecting, providing love of a father. This is how we demonstrate the Love of God to a lost and dying world. And it’s one way we demonstrate the work of His Grace and our qualification to inherit His Kingdom.
Unfortunately, mankind’s proclivity to kill our own children also demonstrates our culpability and deservedness of God’s Judgment with satan and his demons. Jesus said that before His return, it would be like the days of Noah, when violence covered the Earth. Abortionist Lisa Harris admits that abortion is a violent act. We kill approximately 115,000 children God sends us worldwide every day!
We show that we love God and belong to Him by loving Life.
And we demonstrate that we don’t love Him nor that we that we are fit to spend eternity with Him when we don’t.
After doing a little arithmatic with available data, the annual birth rate is approximately 357,000 per day.
So we conceive around 472,000 children every day (probably a little higher with miscarriages).
We kill almost 25% of the children God’s sends us. The actual percentage is undoubtedly higher when you factor in those killed by abortifacient contraceptives.
“We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.” 1 Jn 5:19 NIV
What an evil generation!
Ed, some of us have no interest in “glorifying God.”
Hal:
You may want to reconsider.
Hal,
I’m so sorry to hear of your loss.
I have a theory…
The reason that there aren’t more vocally visible pro-abort men is that most guys who think of themselves as “pro-choice” really haven’t thought about it much. They thought about it as far as to realize that they aren’t the ones carrying the child and having an understandable concern for women in tough situations… but they haven’t really thought about the nature of abortion itself.
My husband was like that before we met. He would have said he was “pro-choice” but he certainly wouldn’t have been out advocating for it or picketing for it.
Once we started talking about what abortion really means… and once he saw his child’s ultrasound and then held his child in his arms a few months later… he knew that he was ardently pro-life.
He still has the understandable concern for women in tough situations. But now he knows that what they really need is someone to help them out of their tough situation… not someone to just kill their child and leave them in the same situation that got them there in the first place.
So don’t glorify God, Hal, but why does sacrificing human lives have to part of your non-glorification?
Actually, men (irresponsible men, anyway) have the most to lose if abortion is recriminalized.
Right now, the entire risk is on the woman. She alone bears the risks of injury or death. But if abortion were again criminalized, then is she is injured or killed, his sorry ass gets hauled off to prison.
But overall I’d say the reasons that there aren’t as many visible and vocal abortion supporting men as there are prolife men are:
1. They’re scared to death of saying something amiss and getting verbally castrated. Anything they say risks getting them jumped all over. If they try to sympathize with the women “undergoing such a difficult circumstance” they risk being taken to task by “It’s my right and there’s no trauma, just relief!” crowd. If they try to dismiss abortion as simple and easy, they risk the ire of the “it’s an AGONIZING choice!” crowd. Better to keep their mouths shut.
2. They’ve been told so often that it’s “a woman’s issue” that they just let the women fight it out.
Hey Hal,
Your reluctance to want to glorify God is understandable as you’ve never met Him.
If you ever decided to seek Him with your whole heart, you would find Him, that’s His promise.
If you ever found Him, you would glorify Him. You wouldn’t be able to help yourself.
I’m saddened by reading Praxedes post above indicating you recently lost a loved one (perhaps someone could enlighten me).
I’m very sorry for your loss.
Because it’s hard to be an activist for a cause when your ex is there with you.
And you can’t normalize abortion by reflecting and having discussions about it. That’s self-defeating. Do reflections and perspectives on surviving a sexual assault normalize rape?
Hal said, “Ed, some of us have no interest in “glorifying God.””
I replied to Hal, “I’m so sorry to hear of your loss.” (meaning it’s Hal’s loss if he has no interest in God).
I was trying to be funny but think I failed miserably.
Anyway Ed, I agree about not being able to help yourself from glorifying Him once you find Him.
Hal, in all seriousness, I hope and pray you will look for Jesus. He Loves you more than you could ever imagine. If He can love me in spite of all my sins, He can love any one!
Actually Hal I should clarify that Jesus found me more than vice-versa. I just sat still (unplugged from everything and everybody), waited and listened. (But I did have to be willing to sit still for awhile and be open-minded).
Peace.
Hey Praxedis,
Lol. You know this happens with this text/email form of communication all the time. We don’t have the benefit of hearing voice inflections, seeing facial expressions, or other non-verbals.
Hal,
Great to hear you’re not in mourning.
However, I do join my bro Prax in mourning your lost condition.
To which you’d probably reply that, to your knowledge, you aren’t lost.
To which we’d reply, “Exactly…if you only knew…”
“If the Good News we preach is hidden behind a veil, it is hidden only from people who are perishing. Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.” 2 Co 4:3-4 NLT
Oops! I prolly should have said, “My sis Praxedes…”
Yet another fine example of the limitations of this forum.
“Why do you think there is a shortage of outspoken pro-abort men?”
————————————————–
Same reason there is a shortage of outspoken pro-abort females.
A good number of both genders were victims of ‘choice’ and dead people have no voice.
If after they watch that Grantham collection and there still pro-death I would no longer waste my words on them. And for abortionists to see that procedure done so often I think there minds are probably past logic too. I couldn’t watch all of it. What I did see though you get the sense of not only how unfair it is to the baby but also how unfair it is to the mom.
Real men stand for the lives of women they love and the child(his child)that grows in her womb! Real men fight to protect those led away to the slaughter. He stands for the innocent and vulnerable among us.
Easy Praxedes…I don’t sit all day in front of a computer….I will answer your questions.
Here we go…..
Have you ever supported or financially contributed to a woman’s choice to abort your child? (sorry I meant fetus).
Answer: No I have not, I have two beautiful children, as far as I know they are the only children that I have conceived.
Have you ever misrepresentated your proabort view to sleep with a woman?
Answer: No
Have you ever pressured a woman to abort?
Answer: No
Do you have knowledge of your mother and/or sister/s aborting?
Answer: As far as I know neither my mother or my two sisters have had an abortion.
Did one or both of your parents ever tell you they wished they had aborted you?
Answer: No
Do you or have you ever financially profited in any way from the abortion industry?
Answer: No
Do you think the fetus in the Granthum Collection felt any pain before he was disassembled?
Answer: Not entirely sure, but probably Yes
If yes to the previous questions, Do you care?
Answer: No
If no to the previous question, why do you think you do not?
Answer: The mother’s right to bodily autonomy outweighs the fetus, also, in many cases, it is more human to end a pregnancy than to bring a child into the world without support.
Do you perform abortions?
Answer: No
When was the last time you lied?
Answer: Probably last week.
Posted by: Christina at May 2, 2010 12:44 PM
——-
Keep it clean. You can use other words and convey the same message.
Bears repeating… a pro-life male is a man, a pro-abortion male is a boy. Real men take care of their responsibilities. A real man wouldn’t hand a woman a couple hundred bucks then tuck tail and run away like the coward he is.
Makes me wonder how the kids of the pro-aborts will feel later in life that they could have been aborted had it not been what mom considered the right time for them to be born. As my oldest child is keen enough to understand “There is no perfect time to have a baby. It’s God’s time, not ours but if you engage in the act to make a baby, then chances are, you’re going to end up with one. It’s not the baby’s fault the mom got pregnant.”
“Makes me wonder how the kids of the pro-aborts will feel later in life that they could have been aborted had it not been what mom considered the right time for them to be born. ”
Posted by: Dirtdartwife at May 2, 2010 9:55 PM
That’s true of all kids. I think it would make them feel wanted. I’m sure my mother could have found a way not to have me, way back then in 1961.
“That’s true of all kids. I think it would make them feel wanted. I’m sure my mother could have found a way not to have me, way back then in 1961.
Posted by: Hal at May 2, 2010 11:37 PM”
Ya know Hal, God has a word for every single one of your comments. Maybe someday you’ll listen to Him.
Isaiah 49:15
“Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you!
He loves all children Hal whether or not they are “wanted” by their mothers.
Oh, if I could just get you to understand and feel His great love for you.
That’s true of all kids. I think it would make them feel wanted. I’m sure my mother could have found a way not to have me, way back then in 1961.
Posted by: Hal at May 2, 2010 11:37 PM
“That’s true of all kids.”
Actually, it’s not. Especially those of us who have pro-life mothers who realize that killing a defenseless human being is not a “right”.
Jake wrote “The mother’s right to bodily autonomy outweighs the fetus, also, in many cases, it is more human to end a pregnancy than to bring a child into the world without support.”
Since there is actually no real conflict between the mother’s bodily autonomy and the unborn, this argument is an example of the blindness of Jake. He truly believes that if a woman has sex and falls pregnant ‘against her wishes’ – so to speak – that killing the unborn rights a great wrong.
Also, given that the world has now lost hundreds of millions of productive, funny, inventive, problem solving, loving etc. people due to abortion, the whole idea that stopping abortion would create great need is 100% wrong. The truth is we are impoverished for decades by each single abortion.
Honestly, on Judgement Day, I don’t want to see, know or hear of what happens to those who bow to Molech so willingly when the facts are so clearly against them. It pains me just to imagine it.
Dear Hal,
My oldest son asked if I ever thought of aborting him.
Your daughters may have never voiced that to you but they might have thought it.
Well, I met a very nice strongly, pro-life guy.
Unfortunately, he lives in Germany! :-(
If I remember correctly from another post, Jake also thinks that pregnancy “ruins women’s bodies” – which ought to tell you a lot about him.
“…also, in many cases, it is more human to end a pregnancy than to bring a child into the world without support.”
Posted by: Jake at May 2, 2010 7:06 PM
Worst. Argument. Ever.
It’s intellectually lazy, it’s sloppy, it’s logically laughable. I suppose I could go through and debunk this and point out how absolutely moronic it is, but honestly, an argument this bad isn’t even worth it.
I’ve been lurking on this site for a while. I’m a non-religious liberal who is staunchly PRO LIFE. I am amazed at the religious arguments…..You CAN be pro-life and be agnostic. And for those of you who are pro-choice, you sound just as ignorant.
I simply do not understand how anyone can ever think abortion could be a “right.” It should be completely unthinkable. While on a semantic level, I agree that we should be able to “control” our own “bodies” and “destiny” (whatever that means), we need to define our terms. This issue isn’t an abstract right, it involves the killing of another person. I do not say the fetus is a person because it suits me. It is absolutely inconvenient to view the unborn child as a person. But it can’t be anything else BUT a person, and therefore it has the right to exist. No matter what the Supreme Court says, we do not have a right to kill those who are not yet born.
It’s interesting that people who are pro-choice think religious pro-lifers are ridiculous for adhering to their beliefs, even if the source of those beliefs are a book written many years ago. I find people who are pro-choice to be scientifically and emotionally ignorant and manipulative. The Supreme Court is not infallible. Just because something is legal does not make it right. There is no such thing as the right to kill anyone, especially a human being who is viewed as disposable at the whims of his or her mother.
Carla, if my daughters asked if I ever thought of aborting them, I would honestly tell them “no.”
I don’t see why that should bother them. If my mother told me she had a couple of abortions, that would not make me feel less loved or feel less love for her.
Chris, I never asked my mother if she had abortions or considered aborting me. Not really any of my business.
I am amazed at the religious arguments…..You CAN be pro-life and be agnostic. And for those of you who are pro-choice, you sound just as ignorant.
Posted by: Mary at May 3, 2010 11:07 AM
Hi Mary,
There are several agnostic and atheist posters on this site. While I am religious I do not feel it is a religious issue. You are correct when you say – But it can’t be anything else BUT a person, and therefore it has the right to exist. – (sorry my quote key isnt working.) That is a scientific fact, not a religious wish.
Welcome to the site! :)
Chris, I never asked my mother if she had abortions or considered aborting me. Not really any of my business.
Posted by: Hal at May 3, 2010 11:10 AM
——
Really Hal? None of your business? Could you make the same statement if one considered taking your life today? That it would be none of your business?
You don’t see a direct contradiction in what you’re saying about feeling wanted, but have no desire to find out if that was indeed the case from your own mother?
Some paths are too dark to enter – eh?
I judged a pro-life oratory contest last Saturday. Many students expressed the fact they were survivors and understood it could have been them instead.
If you don’t think that has an impact – consider the case of my own father. During WWII he was a medical corpsman who left a particular tent to fetch coffees for the guys. While he was gone their camp was bombed. When it was clear and he got back to his tent everyone inside was dead. It haunted him the rest of his life. He was diagnosed with PTSD that could be traced back to that event.
Maybe it’s better to avoid knowing – but that doesn’t remove doubts and resulting symptoms.
Chris, I assume I was wanted by my mother, as she did not choose to abort me (and–married to a physician, I’m sure she could have if she wanted). That makes me feel wanted. Better, in fact, than if she said something like “I didn’t really want a child at that time, but abortion was illegal and/or wrong, so I had you anyway.”
The story of your father doesn’t seem to relate to what we’re talking about. I am sorry, however, that he went through that and I am grateful for his service.
Sorry Hal. I am not ignoring you. Your posts make me so very sad.
The answer of no that you would give to your daughters means nothing in light of the fact that you CONTINUE to support the killing of innocent children in the womb. Grandchildren included?? Your answer could easily have been yes. Their very lives hung in the balance because of the siblings that died before them. Why them? Why did they get to live? Because they were “wanted?” That is an attitude of adults not a trait of a child.
My son knows that abortion completely changed me and influenced what I believe. He sees the work I do. He knows a change of heart when he sees one.
I found out from my Dad that my mom had been seriously thinking of aborting me before she talked to my Dad’s mom. She convinced her to keep me.
I never knew any of this before being an adult, but it honestly doesn’t suprise me.
Carla, as you know, I haven’t had a change of heart.
I’m not troubled by the fact that “lives hang in the balance” depending on being wanted or not. If one of my daughters wanted an abortion, I’d make sure she knew she had options (and support) but I’d be fine with whatever she decided.
I know that makes you sad, and I know you don’t agree.
Maurader said:
If I remember correctly from another post, Jake also thinks that pregnancy “ruins women’s bodies” – which ought to tell you a lot about him.
Sorry Maurader, I never said that, you have me confused with someone else. I can see how a woman might think it does, Stretch marks, unwanted weight etc., but that is not my position.
We don’t need to malign the word “boy,” or use it to mean “selfish and immature.”
Where is praxedes??? I am waiting…did you forget about me???
I am not sure but I am an outspoken pro life man.
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Great article on WND, Jill. We blogged it. Thanks for all your good work.
http://engagefamilyminute.com/?p=2554
I have the perfect pro-choice men’s T-shirt.
KEEP YOUR ROSARIES OFF MY PLAY TOY!