Angry mob tries to censor abortion truth at FSU
Of course he does. They’re so much easier to nail. But I digress.
Last week the Florida State University Republicans invited the Center for Bio-Ethical Reform Midwest to set up its Genocide Awareness Project display.
FSUNews.com later called the 2-day event “polariz[ing],” quite the understatement.
In reaction to the GAP display the pro-abortion group F-Word waged a counter protest to try to drown out CBR’s right to free speech as well as shield the truth about abortion from public view. Here’s footage, with a touching testimony in the middle proving that showing abortion stops abortion…
About the GAP display FSU College Democrats President Joseph Schweitzer said, according to FSUNew.com:
Women are going to be in situations in which they need to have a procedure done regardless of how many signs, how many pictures of blood they put up. It’s sick, but if you were to outlaw something like [abortion], it would just happen illegally. The pictures skew the argument. That could be an appendix removal that I’m looking at; it’s not, but it could be. I could frame an argument in the same way, that, ‘This is sick; look at that blood. Kill all surgeons; they are sinners and we need to outlaw surgery. Look at the blood.”…
You need to look past the images of the procedure and talk about why it’s necessary or why not…. Just showing you an image, a really bloody image, is not the right way to have a discussion….
They’re taking pictures of a bloody mass during a surgery. That’s going to be sick no matter what. You’re not arguing an issue here; you’re arguing an image. It stops being an argument between what’s right and what’s wrong. You can fight the most noble war in history, but if you’re showing pictures of bodies, then everybody is going to want you to stop the war.
CBR’s Mark Harrington responded, according to FSUNews.com:
Successful social reformers have always used images of injustice to make their point. Whether it be civil-rights activists, anti-war protestors, anti-child labor activists-all throughout history, these types of images have been central to outlawing injustice. So, what we’re doing is nothing new. The reason why people get all worked up about it is because it takes the veil off of what many consider to be a constitutional right. It shows what’s being chosen and, because of that, people get very upset. It’s very hard to defend abortion in light of the photographic evidence.
More video…
CBR Midwest continues its FL GAP tour yesterday and today at Florida International University. On February 23 and 24 its international team from 4 countries will display GAP at Florida Atlantic University.
Donate to continue this important work here. I believe in this so strongly I”m a monthly donor.
[Photos via FSUNews.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Yea, that guy in chains could be a criminal, not a slave – stop using pictures of men in chains…
BRAVO to the girl speaking and remaining calm, cool, and collected!!
Joseph Schweitzer compares abortion to surgery. I wonder if anyone would have been outraged or offended if it had just been a big display of open-heart surgery pictures. My guess is no…
“that guy in chains” is a documented photo. Why not look into the exhibit and it’s creators and discover for yourself WHO is pictured in the photo.
Are not all human beings deserving of dignity? Elective abortion isn’t surgery. It’s murder for hire.
Cue those that will never get past Jill’s first three sentences. But I digress.
Carla… hahahaha…
This was a Facebook status message I read last year from a girl who was out bar-hopping at FSU: “I can’t believe I just saw a guy and a girl go into a port-a-potty together.” Is that heart-breaking or what? These college kids want to have their freedom with no responsibilities. PLEASE CONTINUE TO SHOW THEM THE TRUTH!
A port-a-potty? Okay, ew. That’s just wrong.
I am so tempted to stage an experiment. Gather a group of people with bloody pictures of pulled teeth and brochures detailing medical facts about various dental procedures and go stage a “demonstration” outside the local orthodontist’s. And, as people leave the building, as them to fill out a questionnaire talking about their responses and thoughts on the demonstration. Then write up the methods and such like and encourage other groups in other areas to do the same, to see if the findings are similar in all areas.
My hypothesis is that virtually every group will get broad responses of, “This is weird, but it doesn’t bother us since these are teeth we’re talking about.” As opposed to the angry “HOW DAR U SHO ME THOSE PICKTURRRS!!!” you get when a display of abortion takes place.
I love the guy wearing the shirt proclaiming “I love pro-choice girls”.
Priceless. What’s not to love about a pro-choice girl for a horny young college dude? You get to use them and if they get pregnant, you’re off the hook for child support. The price of an abortion is pennies on the dollar (less so) when it comes to child support for the next 20 years.
These pro-choice kids actually reinforce the most central reality regarding love:
It isn’t a feeling, but an act of will.
Their “choice” shows that they have none in their hearts.
It’s amazing how blind the abortion-choicers are – they literally attempt to cover-up the violence.
Compounds their conviction by demonstrating their culpability.
Kudos to the brave young man in the first video who was being honest about what happened to him and his ex-girlfriend. I pray he seeks the healing he needs.
ok – so why aren’t he police fully moving the loud demonstrators to the side so they both are side by side and not shouting down the information? When we had counter protesters at our local PP, the police stated that everyone must behave – and everyone had to have a turn. One person could not cut in between people who were already talking. They asked for calm and gentle communication in a polite way. After that, the counter protesters were better behaved (all college students, who wanted to shout, and state their opinion, but wanted us to respond to ‘the hand.’ lovely.
Actually – we love our police – who had their squad cards near by so they could watch the entire morning, and intervene if needed. Thankfully – only words were exchanged, and God graced us with a save that very morning.
God is good! ;) Now for some decorum, please! It seems that young students just want to shout down the message instead of rationally thinking and engaging in dialogue. Ah – I miss the old college days – many more manners.
Wow, the contrast between the two groups is simply amazing. On one hand you have the pro-aborts screaming and cussing and being completely disrespectful, and on the other you have the pro-lifers staying calm and dignified. Really tells you something about both groups, doesn’t it?
Maybe we should make child molestation and child pornography legal . I mean it’s going to happen anyway , at least then we can regulate it . Then if a child is injured in the molestation they could ask for treatment right away . Because the molester wouldn’t have had to threaten them in to silence . Then we could tax kiddie porn to fund childrens health care . Surely it would save childrens lives because molesters would not have to resort killing an abducted child to keep them silent . They could just abduct them rape them and then drop them off at home . Same goes for all rape , hey why not all murder too . I mean come on , it’s gonna happen anyway . It makes perfect sense right .
“Joseph Schweitzer compares abortion to surgery. I wonder if anyone would have been outraged or offended if it had just been a big display of open-heart surgery pictures. My guess is no…”
Probably not, because there’s not a major movement to ban open-heart surgery. Abortion is a sensitive, socially volatile subject precisely because of its heavy politicization at the hands of right-wing political movements. No one would be outraged or offended at a display questioning whether the Civil War really happened. A similar display questioning the Holocaust, on the other hand, would be outrageous and offensive to many people. Both events are historical facts. There is no dispute among rational people that they both occurred. The difference, of course, is that Holocaust denial has become something of a cause celebre for white supremacists, whereas no one disputes the existence of the Civil War.
“In reaction to the GAP display the pro-abortion group F-Word waged a counter protest to try to drown out CBR’s right to free speech as well as shield the truth about abortion from public view. ”
A counter-protest is as much an act of free speech as the protest itself is. If the “Center for Bio-Ethical Reform Midwest” can dish it (and in Florida, which last I checked is not part of the midwest, curiously enough), then they better be able to take it too. It’s obvious that they want attention and drama, so don’t try and frame them as victims who are having their message drowned out by, you know, actual students at the university.
Joan
1. Watch the videos.
2. Comment.
There was a young man who told about the abortion decision that he and his girlfriend made. He talked about how if he had only known. He looked like, you know, an actual student at the university.
I don’t know if pro-choice girls on the whole are necessarily “easier to nail” – some of them could be the “I wouldn’t have an abortion, but I don’t think I have the right to decide that for other people” type – but at the same time I don’t think this guy hearts pro-choice girls for non-selfish reasons, either.
The Democrats Pres. of FSU made a strange argument. He was saying that pictures skew the argument and an aborted fetus could look like an appendix surgery. Well people may find an appendix gross to look at, but they are not mortified by it. Nobody would say removing an appendix is an abomination because it doesn’t hurt anyone and I’m pretty sure an appendix is not a person. To some people pictures are more effective than words and many girls have changed their minds because of photos, so we know they can help. I mean if you really are pro-choice, then it shouldn’t bother you if some people chang their minds about photos, taht’s there choice.
I’d say It is important to have a debate with words but you need to appreciate the severity of the situation and pictures can help you do that. There’s a problem with debating over what is right and wrong just in theory without any real exposure to it. You can become desensitized to how serious an issue is that way. To some that baby is just a stray thought in your mind so it’s easy to make arguments as to why abortion would be a good thing but once they see a living human being up-close, it becomes hard to ignore the value of their life.
The “F-word”. Classy name for a feminist group. (I suppose that’s typical behavior for 20-year olds.)
~ ~ ~
kim jacobson says:
February 22, 2011 at 2:54 pm
“Maybe we should make child molestation and child pornography legal . I mean it’s going to happen anyway , at least then we can regulate it .”
I don’t see why not. I don’t condone either, but, I mean it’s a matter of privacy and free choice, just like abortion, right? But they’re illegal. Oh my gosh, we’re becoming a theocracy!! Not.
Joan,
Thank you for the following statement:
“Abortion is a sensitive, socially volatile subject precisely because of its heavy politicization at the hands of right-wing political movements.”
This is one of the granddaddy lies from your side. Abortion was NOT a political issue until your side hijacked the political machinery to enact this barbarism into law.
Your side is the one who has made abortion the litmus test for Supreme Court nominees, beginning with Robert Bork.
Swing and a miss, Joan. Nice try though.
Abortion is a sensitive, socially volatile subject precisely because of its heavy politicization at the hands of right-wing political movements.
Really, Joan? I thought the legalized killing of small humans was a human rights issue; not a political issue. Silly me.
You obviously didn’t watch the videos if you are in any way defending the pro-choice groups’ actions at that event. No one in their right mind would regard that as civilized discussion of an important issue.
“It all comes down to one simple question: What is the unborn? If the unborn is not a human person, no justification for abortion is necessary. However, if the unborn is a human person, no justification for abortion is adequate.” – Gregory Koukl, Stand to Reason
“At least my family had the chance to try to run away”.
A lady who went through such terror can say this, and there are still so many who deny even the humanity of the unborn.
Need I mention how a baby tries to squirm away from the forceps?
Also last week at FSU: (Go ‘Noles!)
Pro-Life Medical Students Tour Visits FSU Friday
FEBRUARY 17, 2011 9:49 PM
http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/blog/pro-life-medical-students-tour-visits-fsu-friday
All I could think of was “Scream as loud as you can, but that doesn’t change the truth.” Their rhetoric is all they’ve got, because this “common medical procedure” is indefensible.
Somehow I don’t think they’d be shrieking “My body, my choice!” if those were simply pictures of an appendix removal….
I didn’t watch the videos, my computer is ill. But the young guy with the “I love pro-choice girls” t shirt amused me. When I was his age, and unfortunately Godless, immature, and totally hedonistic, I also loved pro choice girls. If I impregnated a pro choice girl through my hedonistic self centered spoiled actions, a couple hundred dollars could solve the problem, money I could get from my mommy or daddy. With the right mind set nothing counts, including the murder of innocent babies, as long as the good times roll. Thankfully I never was responsible for an abortion, and I outgrew the attitude that even murder was acceptable as long as it furthered my quest for a good time.
1. You removed the watermark from my friend’s photo. That’s STEALING. Think twice before stealing artist’s work. Thanks.
2. The young lady in the video was very classy on how she remained calm and didn’t slander any names… why not try doing the same thing?
3. “Of course he does. They’re so much easier to nail.” Haha, are you kidding me? You’re generalizing a group of people on their ideas. “Criticize ideas, not people.” [That’s in the commenting rules do’s on your site…]
First off, I have to say that just because you all are winning the debate on this page, it means nothing in the real world. This is a site dedicated towards a anti-abortion audience (I won’t say pro-life because there’s nothing pro-life about denying a mother who could potentially die in childbirth from getting an abortion. Nothing.) so of course the majority of the comments will take that stance, but I certainly won’t.
As someone who was at this demonstration, I can firmly say that the videos posted are as bias as they come. Ms. Stanek fails to mention the contents of the so-called “peaceful demonstration of free speech”. The group being attacked by this “angry mob” was comparing abortion to the Holocaust. The demonstration wasn’t just pro-life, it was anti-semetic filth. Nothing about abortion is similar to the suffering taken place under Hitler’s rule. Even if you subscribe to the fact that a fertilized egg is indeed life, there simply is no comparison. An abortion takes place before the baby has thoughts and feelings; it dies painlessly. The starvation and torture of millions of innocent Jews is an entirely different situation.
Because of legalized abortion, the crime rate in the United States has declined, illegal and potentially lethal abortions are no longer taking place (saving the lives of many), and our overpopulation problem was moderately subdued. NOTHING GOOD CAME OUT OF THE HOLOCAUST.
80% of fertilized eggs are bled out during a woman’s menstrual cycle. If all fertilized eggs are living and have sanctity of life, women are serial killers.
The fact of the matter is that attempts to legislate against abortion are based on a desire to impose the dogma of some religions onto those religions that tolerate abortion. These attempts are not only intolerant but also arrogant in that they deny the legitimacy of the opposing religious philosophies. Opponents against abortion must be made to recognize that they do not own the only true path to God’s grace.
You have no right to restrict the choice of the people. This is a free country.
This all seems terribly skewed. Actually, the main reason the F-Word members and the pro-choice protesters were there was to stop the pro-life people from setting up those displays every year. Aside from being disgusting to look at while you’re on a stroll through the middle of campus but, the pictures they use are mostly unauthorized and illegal. They show pictures that they were granted no permission to use along with pictures of illegal abortions (after the 3rd trimester). So, if you were at the event and listened to what people were saying along with the facts, the main points was to stop the pro-life people from setting up disgusting and skewed billboards. Would you want your kids to be walking through campus and see this? I think not.
OH, and to the person about the porto-potty comment, that happens everywhere, even in your time. Lets not judge all students by one comment. We are clearly educated and responsible if were going to school here. On the basis of this article and comments, some people are uneducated due to the misjudgments and skewed arguments that fill this page.
ejappe, it’s hard to know even where to begin. . . I guess you are new here. I suspect you are new to the debate too. Let me start with a few basics.
80% of fertilized eggs are bled out during a woman’s menstrual cycle. If all fertilized eggs are living and have sanctity of life, women are serial killers.
You say you were at the demonstration. Are you a college student? First off, for heaven’s sake, take a basic biology course, because you badly need one. There is no such thing really, as a “fertilized egg.” The egg or ovum, is a cell of a woman’s body. The unborn child (at zygote, embryo or fetus stage) is not. When sperm and egg and joined, they cease to exist as such and become a new entity, with DNA separate from that of both parents, a new, separate, human individual. Eggs are not aborted, human individuals are.
Also, it is NON-fertilized eggs that are “bled out” during a woman’s monthly cycle. If fertilization has taken place, she’s not going to be menstruating. This is just basic. I learned it as a girl of 14 when I began my cycles. The non-fertlized eggs lost are not human beings. A lifetime of menstrual cycles is not going to make a woman a “serial killer.” Even if a woman does occasionally lose a fertilized egg that fails to implant, this is nothing less than a miscarriage. Accidentally losing your baby is not murder.
The group being attacked by this “angry mob” was comparing abortion to the Holocaust. The demonstration wasn’t just pro-life, it was anti-semetic filth.
I am sick to death of pro-aborts crying “foul” over comparing abortion to the Holocaust, and making anti-Semitic implications. Didn’t it strike you while watching the video that the group with the photos (the Genocide Awareness Project, I think) obviously think abortion is a very bad thing? And then they say it is like the Holocaust. Now please put on your thinking cap. . . concentrate hard. Do you think it might just be . . . that they think the Holocaust is bad? That they think all genocide is as bad as abortion? How on earth could thinking the Holocaust bad be anti-Semitic?
How could abortion and the Holocaust be alike – I mean of course, apart from the fact of millions of innocent human beings being killed? Well, there’s that, for starters. There is also the fact that these human beings are singled out for some reason – race, ethnic characteristics, religion – or the fact that they still live in the womb. Then they are dehumanized – declared not to be fully human, so they can be killed in good conscience. Jews (and Czechs, Poles, other Slavs, gyspies, etc) are dogs, subhuman creatures, not fit to be human beings, much less part of the master race. Or they are called “zygotes,” “fertilized eggs” (by experts in biology such as yourself), “parasites,” “part of the mother,” even when they are fully formed and in the third trimester. In other words, supporters of genocide, including the Holocaust, do everything you’ve just been doing.
Hmm, seems to be a pretty fair comparison to me.
Welcome to the debate.
They show pictures that they were granted no permission to use along with pictures of illegal abortions (after the 3rd trimester).
First of all, how would you know anything about their permissions to use the photos?
Secondly, abortion is legal up until the day of birth in America. Or haven’t you heard of Roe v. Wade and it’s counterpart Doe v. Bolton?
Perhaps that was the day you also missed the class on First Amendment rights.
Third, yep, I’d allow my children to see it. My children are aware of slavery, abortion, the Holocaust, and all sorts of evils in the world.
P.S. – “After the 3rd trimester” would be after full term birth, so I’m not sure I understand that particular comment.
Definition of “genocide” is “the systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.” Abortion is not to exterminate an entire group of people based on nationality, race, political stance, or ethnicity.
First off, I was at that rally. The GAP put up these grotesque photos in an area where hundreds of students walk to class all day. Understandable. However, they decided to pitch this movement during a week of Preview, which is when prospective incoming students take campus tours with their family. I believe this is inappropriate. This makes FSU look bad because these prospective students and their family agreed to tour the historical FSU campus, not to be apart of an anti-abortion movement with enlarged disgusting images that even the strong-stomached would cringe at.
Secondly, there is some misunderstanding that us “college students” will abuse this choice as a way of “having our freedom” with no consequences. Abortion isn’t an easy thing to come by. And if it is, then there should be some regulation to make it so it isn’t an easy thing to come by. This is expensive. I’m sure most “college students” who would abuse this choice would have the money to get this taken care of every time they have their careless with their freedom.
Ladies, if you were date raped and found out you were pregnant, would you keep the baby? Would you thank your God for that unfortunate event and bring a child into this world knowing that it was the result of a terrifying, harmful act?
It is easy to just pick a side on an issue like this. But, how quickly one will change their mind when they’re actually face-to-face with a decision like this.
This topic is obviously very important to a lot of people, and I cannot imagine the effect it has had on anyone’s life who has been personally affected. I do not know enough information nor do I feel I am in any way qualified to present an argument for either side.
I do have a thought, though. Typically speaking, it is common for more conservative and religious groups to praise the idea of abstinence until marriage. Does anyone think that, possibly, if these said groups were to credit the idea of using condoms and practicing safe sex that overall pregnancies (especially among teenage girls) would decrease at least by a little bit?
The reason I ask is because I think that trying to prevent unwanted pregnancies would at least, slightly, help to create a solution. Of course I am aware that many unplanned pregnancies will still occur because of rape, negligence and other factors, but maybe if both Pro-Life and Pro-Choice groups advocated the use of condoms, we could at least see a slight decrease in the future. This is simply my idea, and I would love to get any feedback on it (so long as it is respectful and not derogatory.)
bring a child into this world knowing that it was the result of a terrifying, harmful act?
A child conceived as the result of a sexual assault is an innocent victim. Should we execute the innocent for the crime of his/her father?
If a person, say by the name of Rip Van Winkle, were to awaken from a sleep started prior to Roe Vs. Wade, I think he would be surprised to see so many females on the pro abortion side of the debate. It would seem that the natural view of real women would be to nurture and protect children when they are in their most vulnerable state. The beauty of motherly love and protection is never to be surpassed. It also seems that the intent of evil and Satan is to distort what is most beautiful into something as ugly as possible. If the image of the loving and protective mother is about as beautiful as it gets, the image of a self centered, hedonistic female screaming for the “right” to rip the living child from her womb and to flush the corpse of her child down the drain is as ugly as female humanity can get. It seems that with abortion, not only is the child murdered, but the beauty of motherhood gets transformed into the ultimate ugliness.
Let me start by clearing up something that many of the people on this site seem to be misled to think. I happen to know the gentleman wearing the “I Love Pro-Choice Girls” shirt. He’s been in a committed relationship for a few years now and would not hesitate to keep the baby if he and his girlfriend accidentally got pregnant and she decided to keep the baby. Quite frankly, many of the comments made in his direction, by Ms. Stanek and other commenters, have been rather tasteless and unnecessary.
Speaking of which, I also happen to know the photographer whose pictures you altered, and the reporter whose quotes you sampled and used here OUT OF CONTEXT.
I will admit, I was one of the people who took part in the counter-demonstration. However, I did not do so because I fervently support abortion. In fact, I would say that no one there had a purely positive mindset towards abortion. Notice how the women there were shouting “my body, my choice.” We believe that it is no one person’s job to decide who should do what with which pregnancy, and that it is every woman’s right to choose for herself. Matter of fact, if given the choice, many pro-choice women would likely still keep the baby if they accidentally got pregnant. They just believe that the decision is theirs to make, and theirs alone. Many people on this website (including, it seems, Ms. Stanek) seem to be under the misconception that there is this enormous population of women out there who are using abortion as birth control. As one commenter pointed out, the cost of an abortion is pennies on the dollar compared to 20 years of child support. Well, the cost of other contraceptives are, financially and emotionally, “pennies on the dollar” compared to relying exclusively on abortion (especially with the introduction of the “morning after pill”). Thus, this false notion that college students are incapable of being sexually active while still being responsible is not only fallacious, it is extremely insulting. It would be no better than me equating all pro-life activists as rabid, evangelistic rednecks.
Furthermore, Ms. Stanek’s manipulation of photos, video, and writing further illustrates why FSU did not want the GAP on our campus. I’m not sure if any of you have actually examined the photos for yourselves, but not only do they violate several laws of ethics, they are also manipulated. Thus, not only were their photographs unnecessarily graphic, tasteless, and sensationalistic… they were also inaccurate. Thus, the counter-demonstration felt the need to censor the photos because they were, one, graphic, vulgar, and indecent, and two, fabricated. They were fallacies on a variety of levels. I respect everyone’s right to free speech, but not when it involves making ridiculous comparisons, creating necessary alienation, and intentionally offending sensibilities. As one protester succinctly put: if we can show pictures of babies being aborted in public, we should also be able to show photos of them being conceived in public.
By the way, the FSU College Republicans have withdrawn their support of the GAP following the demonstration. They admit that they helped the organization book the space for the event. However, they did not provide any other sort of assistance to the CBR that they had originally intended. What does that say about the GAP’s methodologies? They, like this article, sample figures, images, and quotes and alters their meanings by using them out of context. Furthermore, they both do so to create a false binary of “this is a matter of right and wrong,” when we all agree that the issue is much more complex and nuanced. These tactics are, frankly, infantile, and are easily recognized by any person who has set foot in an “Intro to Mass Communication” class.
It is okay to have disagreements, and it is okay to have intelligent debate about those disagreements. Sensationalism, ad hominem, and name calling, on the other hand, is childish and accomplishes nothing.
I reported on this story for the on campus radio station and spoke to both sides at length. I also know the writer of the FSView story and was with the photographer when he was shooting. I will say a few things about all sides here.
First and foremost, you are incorrect in your evaluation of the “free speech” of the GAP. No one was attempting to limit the free speech of anyone else. Free Speech is a governmental issue. There were police on hand and at no point did they limit the speech based on content of either group. It is not a free speech issue for a group to disagree with another and ask and/or demand that they be quiet. The group hold no authority, and neither group is required to listen to other. That is free speech. The first amendment means you have to be able to listen to those, such as the F-Word who disagree.
Second, the protesters from the F-Word, CPE, Pride, and College Dems become extreme and radicalized. They began yelling propaganda and half-truths. They are in no way morally superior to the GAP, the converse of that statement is also true.
Third and lastly, the misuse of material from the FSView in this article is flagrant is offensive. The photos are not only selected for one sided message flow purpose, but are doctored. They are cropped and altered to side one viewpoint. As RJ, who I will say that I know personally and professionally, pointed out, this is extremely unethical. Also, please do not be disparaging of Nick, the boy posted on the top picture, debate should be above such name calling. The callousness and lack of decorum in this article are shocking. I was there, I should know.
I’m sure my relatives that died in the Holocaust would really enjoy their wrongful deaths being compared to abortion. The Genocide Awareness Project’s displays were the most offensive advertisements I have ever seen in my life. Why not focus on real genocides such as the one in Darfur, where press coverage of the whole war was lacking and refugees still are displaced and need aid? It was extremely ironic that the GAP promoted free speech on their free speech board where as one can make the argument that pro-choice and free speech are one in the same. This was the absolutely most distasteful production I have seen at FSU’s campus thus far and am adamantly hoping a similar display of atrocities does not happen again.
ejappe said, “An abortion takes place before the baby has thoughts and feelings; it dies painlessly.”
So many people are blindly believing what they are told about abortion and fetal developement. It is time for each person to research and find out the truth instead of the lies. Many advancements have been made in technology and studies of babies in the womb since Roe v Wade came into effect. So much is now seen and known about the babies than what was only “thought” in previous years. Even Norma McCorvey (Roe) has changed her postition on this travesty.
I recently witnessed my grandson’s 4D ultrasound. He was grabbing his foot and playing with his umbilical cord. Throughout the pregnancy we have followed his development…how many of you know that at week 5 just when a woman realizes she might be pregnant, the major organs and nervous, circulatory, digestive are forming? At week 6, the heart is beating and blood is circulating; eyes, ears, nose, cheeks and chin form; hands and feet begin to wiggle. During an abortion, the heart stops beating, the blood stops flowing, and that sweet little face, hands and feet are either burned chemically or torn apart. The abortionist must count the little arms and legs to make sure none are left inside the mother. Please take some time to carefully research and consider the updated information available. Don’t keep your head buried in the sand.
“…displays were the most offensive advertisements I have ever seen in my life.”
“This was the absolutely most distasteful production I have seen…”
Melissa, sometimes the truth hurts. Once you see for yourself what abortion is and does, it certainly is most offensive and distasteful. It is gut-wrenching to see the little arms and legs torn away, crushed skulls, or burned bodies. This is the side of “choice” not seen. Even those having an abortion are screened from the view of what is acutally taking place.
Yes, the reality digusts us and some people want to push the images aside…out of sight out of mind…and reject the truth of what is seen. That old saying, a picture is worth a thousand words…yes, the truth indeed hurts.
I’m sorry, I meant to put a link to my comments about the development of the baby in the womb. This is just one of the sites I use. There are many more if you do the research.
http://community.thebump.com/cs/ks/blogs/nb_checklists/pages/how-big-is-baby.aspx?r=0
“I’m sure my relatives who died in the Holocaust…”, maybe your relatives would scream out to you to stop another holocaust. …”the most offensive advertisements I’ve ever seen…”, sometimes the truth is offensive.Pictures from other tragedies are also graphic….”hoping a similar display of atrocities does not happen again.” Melissa, you, yourself, just called them atrocities.
It used to be that College students were known for, and encouraged, to think independently. Now it seems that conformity of thought is the encouraged norm. I implore all you young people, to question the popular views, to dig deeper than following slogans and catch phrases. Always question. Who, really, is behind the movement to kill children? Why are the unborn considered worthless? What are the consequences of encouraging people to be totally self centered and irresponsible? If your parents chose abortion when you were in the womb, who, by name wouldn’t be reading this right now? Think!
Regi,
A child that comes into the world through a terrible act is still an innocent child. Why do you assume that a child being dead would be the better choice? There are plenty of children who were conceived from rape who would rather be alive. I understand it is a difficult circumstance but there are plenty of children who are born in difficult circumstances, that learn to appreciate their lives. Would you advocate for the killing of a newborn conceived by rape?
Oh and to those saying the pictures and photos are offensive, I have to ask what exactly is offensive about these photos. I mean whatever you find gruesome about these photos, is something you are advocating for. The pro-life group is just SHOWING what is happening, the pro-choice groups are the ones causing it to happen. How can you get mad at them for showing pictures of something that you support happening?
Dear Ms. Stanek,
Precisely how many pro-choice girls have you nailed? You sound like you know from experience. I find it highly discouraging that you began this entry with a statement that violates the rules of conduct that you have outlined for those commenting. To assume that women who are not presumptuous enough to think that they know what is best for another women are all easy is shameful.
If you throw your credibility away in the first paragraph, then why write the rest of the article. You had a chance to defend you point well, and you blew it. How about a little WWJD?
I’m sorry that you feel the need to fight for something you believe in with a lack of tact and eloquence. Maybe with time God will grant you the grace that you need to be effective.
@Lori Pieper,
Fertilized eggs can be naturally aborted. Since you think she needs to take another biology class, let me tell you: from MY biology classes, we learned it was between 20 and 50% of fertilized eggs are aborted before the mother is even aware she is pregnant, not 80%, but point being it is not impossible.
The main problem in the article and many comments is the rhetoric. Whether it is a “fertilized egg” or a “zygote”, whether it is “naturally aborted” or “miscarried”, whether the protesting students are “pro-abort” or “pro-choice”, it is the same thing. Everything about this article is written in a very biased way… it’s not very good journalism.
When I walked through the demonstrations, there was no yelling. All was calm, and I was not offended by either side. I have no problem with a debate on campus, what was annoying to me was that these people were not even students or faculty at Florida State.
Just because someone finds comparisons of abortion to the Holocaust distasteful does not mean that they are unaware of the fact that abortion is a loss of life. I’m fairly certain that everyone who knows what abortion is knows that a life is lost. On the other hand, using a comparison of abortion to genocide can only be justified using the “we think abortion is bad, and we think genocide is bad too” rationale. Even then, it can be considered a metaphor at best. I would hardly consider an abortion which takes seconds, maybe minutes, to complete to be comparable to starving someone for weeks and weeks and forcing them to work themselves to death. Nor would I compare the careful, weighed decision of a mother with the sociopathic tendencies of a dictator with a god complex. Whether you feel it’s justifiable or not, there’s no arguing that said comparisons are disrespectful.
It does, however, feed into a main complaint that many people whose views lie at the center of this issue have with those who vocally advocate the “pro life” side. That is, when many people speak up for the argument that abortion should be illegal, they use appeals to pathos. They try to use graphic imagery when describing the abortion process. They try to illustrate vivid pictures of a fetus’ development. They use the “how would you feel if your parents aborted you?” argument. There’s a lot of heated and emotional language, which is the stuff of great storytelling and compelling art. It is also the kryptonite of logical, rational discussion and debate. Attempting to elicit profound emotion does absolutely nothing to progress a debate. If anything, it simply infringes upon a person’s ability to think and argue intelligently, and makes your message much less palatable for anyone who isn’t on your side. Even if you yourself feel strongly about this issue, how is enflamed rhetoric going to get someone on the other side to take you seriously?
Do you know who would often make appeals to people’s emotions? Hitler. But notice how I’m not calling anyone at GAP or here a Nazi. I’m simply drawing a parallel. Still, Hitler was spreading messages of hate an intolerance while people here believe they are arguing for individuals who have no voice. But, hey, I can still use that metaphor.
Fertilized eggs can be naturally aborted. Since you think she needs to take another biology class, let me tell you: from MY biology classes, we learned it was between 20 and 50% of fertilized eggs are aborted before the mother is even aware she is pregnant, not 80%, but point being it is not impossible.
Yes, I’m well aware that “fertilized eggs” i.e. zygotes before implantation, can be naturally aborted, and said so. Go read my comment again.
What ejappe said was that a “fertilized egg” was lost with each menstrual cycle, which is totally false. What is also false is that losing a newly conceived child this way, without the mother knowing it, is murder. The number of newly-conceived individuals lost accidentally is completely irrelevant to the question of whether a deliberate abortion is wrong. Why do people keep bringing this up?
I got to see all this as I walked to my education class. It was disgusting, and honestly inappropriate.
I think that our freedom of speech is important, however, this display, if one can call it that, was tasteless. What if the opposing side had huge pictures up of doctors aborting babies, with huge surgical tools and the woman, smiling, and sending up a thumbs up? Or huge posters saying “Let’s work together to get the little sucker out of there! Go genocide!” Oh… that would then be wrong and offensive, let alone a protest and some hand-made signs, right?
I loved watching a group of highschool JROTC students walking towards the union, ready to see what awaited them. I’m sure all their parents expected THIS to be a part of their field trip. And what better than the tour groups got to go through the union as well to show all the parents and what would have been future students the classless things they apparently allow on campus.
If you are against abortion, that is great, talk about it, pass out flyers, but don’t post up these tasteless pictures thinking it is going to make everyone flinch in terror and never turn to abortion. I’m glad to see that women on our campus are accused of a “genocide” even though they were raped or having medical problems. I don’t think many people go to get abortions while eating lollipops and looking like they walked into Disney World, so I don’t even find this respectful to those women who have had the procedure done because sometimes things do happen. What about educating people about the pill and condoms or even just staying abstinant? This could have been done so differently, and then maybe there would have less tension and frustration, and more educating. I mean, you are trying to educate people, not just gross them out and upset them, right?
And as far as the cute comment, “The “F-word”. Classy name for a feminist group. (I suppose that’s typical behavior for 20-year olds.)”, are you kidding me? I mean, if you can show pictures of what you claim should be terrorizing to the point I won’t want control of my own body anymore, than shit, this name really MUST be classless! Oh, my bad… I said shit… but I guess it is okay. Apparently all college students now curse on account of MY usage of this word. And apparently college students are not allowed to use a clever play on words which those older proffesionals such as journalists and news anchors, sales and distributors, script writes and actors, pastors and priests, teachers and administration, literary authors and yes, even doctors and lawyers are allowed to make. Oh golly gee, those classless feminists!
Aside from the issue on what the pro-lifers were displaying and saying, here’s my opinion on abortion.
Stay off my body.
No one has a right to my body, but me. Same for anyone. How is it that I can be sexually abused against my will, but I am not supposed to be allowed to make personal choices about my own body. People have free will, and I think that I should be able to use my free will on my body when I want as long as I am not hurting another person’s right to their free will. Which I am sorry, but unless you spend every second crying and in grief because a baby is being aborted, then it obviously isn’t hurting you that badly.
If I don’t want my ears pierced, then I won’t get them pierced. I am not going to stop you though from getting your ears pierced. It is your ears! Same thing with my uterus. You can choose to have as many babies as you like, but stay out of mine. And if you want abortion to be illegal, people aren’t just going to want their kids and adoptions aren’t just going to happen and situations won’t just get better. You want to illegalize abortion, then please, adopt every child who is going to be given up, abused, starved, raped, and demeaned.
And for the record, for those who are all about God and his doing or whatever higher power and what not, wouldn’t miscarriages be the same as abortion? Is [God] then a serial killer? Is [God] then in on this genocide or mass murder. I mean, it is His will, right? Or did he give us, humanity, the ability to think and grow and become what we are today? Or even if you don’t believe in a higher power, did someone make you wake up this morning and go to class? What about eat breakfast? Or go on a date? Or tie your shoes? Or go to work? Or did you have the choice to do that? How about I illegalize your power to work because I don’t work and therefore you shouldn’t do it either, regardless of your reasoning to need to work. Wow, that makes total sense.
But I mean, hey, let’s make abortion illegal. Sounds great to have millions of children being born into the best situtions: low incomed families, young unprepared mothers, mothers who don’t even want the child, unhealthy relationships, etc. Perfect idea. And while we are at it, let’s not even teach the Holocaust because apparently those that died, that suffered and struggled and literally had no choice, no thoughts or feelings, had breathed air, lived, were alive, had families, and FELT THE PAIN, yea, they are right there with all these aborted babies. It is all just the same thing, isn’t it?
Hi there R.J.
I want to focus in on one thing you said, which is where I think the debate hinges.
” Notice how the women there were shouting “my body, my choice.” We believe that it is no one person’s job to decide who should do what with which pregnancy, and that it is every woman’s right to choose for herself. ”
Is the idea that a woman has absolute and total sovereignty over her body? That is what it seems like you are saying, which I point out right now because this is the weaker version of bodily autonomy argument, and I do not wish to be accused of building a straw man.
Let us consider the following thought experiment. In some parts of Africa, the practice of female genital mutilation (FGM) is quite rampant. Sometimes those parents who practice it on their children come over to the US and would like to have it done on their newborn daughters. Of course, this is a horrific and brutal act of mutilation, as I am sure many pro-choice feminists would agree. There should be no tolerance for FGM in our civilized society.
However, there is a compromise. Since the fate of the unborn in the womb is subject to teh woman’s wishes, as long as the mother wished, she could (hypothetically) have her unborn daughter’s genitals mutilated while teh daughter was still INSIDE her mother. Though we probably don’t have the science behind doing this down yet, I’m sure we could figure it out. It would probably be easiest to do right before birth, the time at which the fetus gains rights. Thus, since the fetus has no rights, there should be no moral qualms about mutilating a female fetus’s genital while it is still in teh womb.
Does that make sense? Do you support in utero FGM, R.J.?
Aly: Abortion is not about the woman’s body. It is about a little body that has his or her own bodily autonomy but has no choice in the matter.
As a non-religious pro-life rape survivor (and the survivor of a crisis pregnancy and is pro-gay marriage and pro-birth control), I suggest you quit with the soundbytes and slogans and the attitude…..Abortion is unnecessary. 99% of the time, it IS used as birth control. I’m as feminist as you can get. In all my years of research, and all my years of living, I concluded that my pro-“choice” beliefs were false, they were based on lies and obfuscation. I became pro-life because that is the only choice which is good, and true, and just. Killing your baby is not liberation; it is not about your body. We have a right to control our bodies, yes, but only up to the point where it does not infringe on the life of another person. Our rights are not diametrically opposed to the unborn’s right to life–they are instrinsically linked.
Nobody has the “right” to kill anyone, especially their own child.
This IS a holocaust……And yes, I am part Jewish, and I have no problem saying that. It is the dehumanization of an entire class of people, the methodic extermination of babies for the sake of “choice”…..and it is frightening that anyone would ever, ever support it without looking at it.
Yes, the pictures are ugly. Because the truth about abortion IS UGLY.
Hi there Aly.
You’re really all over the place with all the sarcasm and rhetorical questions, but I would really like to try and discuss any issues you have in support of abortion calmly and one at a time. Now, what is a point in your above post that you would like addressed? What do you see as being your main thesis? I certainly don’t disagree with everything you said, so depending on what your answer is, I may or may not disagree.
Aly said:
“Stay off my body.”
Glad you could make it concise. Even though I’m male I have something to say as well.
Stay off my body and those of the unborn.
I was unplanned. It was my body that would’ve been aborted. My life. My choices. My everything.
Please don’t reply that I wouldn’t have known about it, so that would’ve made it OK. If that rationale was valid (and as Lori has pointed out, it really isn’t), then killing people while they sleep would also be fine. What you believe justifies the strong dehumanizing the weak on the way to eliminating them and assuaging the guilt of murder.
Do you not realize that when you say the pictures were “tasteless” that it is what you support that is “tasteless”?
I’m sorry that you have some personal experience with abortion (either you or a friend) that compels you to overlook the obvious biological reality of the beginning of each human life, but abortion kills a unique human being every single time.
btw, (and this is also to some other posters here) bringing up the Holocaust as comparable to abortion is perfectly legitimate – both my parents grew up in Nazi Germany and would’ve concurred. I’m the last of mum’s 7 children (2 deceased). And I’m 43 and abstinent. And one of my 11 nieces and nephews is Down’s syndrome. Her dad (my brother-in-law) was adopted. All the women in my family are quite assertive about abortion – and are pro-life. I think I tick most of the ‘right-to-speak’ boxes in my family, don’t I?
Abortion is evil – but a civilized society protects the lives of the unborn and weak. It certainly doesn’t use their vulnerability as a criteria against them. Life is a gift, and you treat it like a commodity to be bought and sold. Abortion should be relegated to history the same as slavery. If it takes GAP to raise people’s awareness and achieve that result, then so be it.
R. J. Aguiar. Unbelievable. You state everyone knows a life is lost in an abortion. Then you go on to state that even though a “life is lost”, (a polite way of stating murder?), it’s not as “bad” as starving people etc.. You are now taking the stand that some killings are worse than others, as in even if abortion is “undesirable” it isn’t as undesirable as what Hitler did. You are on the road to a rating system of desirable and undesirable killings. Then you go on to state that abortions are somewhat less heinous because of who decides to do the killing, the mother as opposed to Stalin. Now we have a belief system that justifies murder by comparing the relative worth of the killer and the victim. You make these idiotic and evil arguments while attempting to hide the poison of them with long self righteous sentences.
You have truly become the monster Orwell and others warned about. And no, I am not making an ad hominem attack. I am referring to you quite literally. You have become someone who justifies murder for convenience and because of the weakness of the victim. You would have fit in well with Hitler and Stalin, your arguments are their arguments. “everyone knows abortion is a loss of life, but on the other hand..” INDEED. SHAME ON YOU.
The F-Word is not a pro-abortion group, they are actually a Feminist group on campus. Indeed, NO ONE is a ‘pro-abortion’ group. ‘Pro-choice’ is simply that: believing that a woman should be able to decide what to do with her body and not allow someone else to decide that for her. I am pro-choice, but not pro-abortion, meaning I support a woman’s right to choose, but it doesn’t necessarily mean I personally agree with abortion, or would go through with one if I became pregnant. But who am I to tell someone what to do with their body? I can’t and you should’t be either. In addition, many pro-life believers recommend preganant women to simply put the child up for adoption once it is born. I don’t think they realize just how many children are in the ‘system’. There are not enough ‘loving families’ to go around. It’s the unfortunate truth. Too many children are passed from foster home to foster home and its a truly horrible life to live. From those who have shared their experiences with me, it is torture. My family is pro-choice, yet both of my brothers are adopted. They are the lucky ones.
In addtion, if you are pro-life, would you personally want some of your taxes to go towards funding pre-natal care for women who could not afford it (for doctor’s visits, testing, exams)? Most pro-life people I’ve talked to don’t want to pay for this…so it’s kind of hypocritical. They don’t want to ‘harm’ something that’s ‘alive’ but by not providing financial assistance for pre-natal care, they are doing exactly that.
Just a friendly reminder.
If you are coming here to have a shout out and then leave you still need to abide by the rules of commenting or your comments will be deleted.
Pay particular attention No Slandering. Which includes, but shall not be limited to name calling.
Let’s talk like big boys and girls.
If I walked into PP but didn’t want an abortion how would they help me?
Do they offer prenatal care, free ultrasound, parenting classes, prenatal vitamins, or any sort of maternity wear, baby accessories? Can I deliver my baby there and also have post birth care?
prochoice! I think if it was just “your body” there would be no debate. The point is that their is a second person’s body that is being cut up and put in the trash. Also if you go with the your body argument you will be for the legalization of all drugs. Are you? What if you saw someone on the street corner cutting off their fingers? Would you say “it’s their body?” No, the my body argument is a political slogan, not a real argument. There really is only one true argument for abortion. That is, “they,(the babies), have no money, no vote, no voice, no power, so we’ll kill them if they get in our way.” That’s the only real argument for abortion.
You go on to rationalizing abortion by pointing out a lack of “loving homes”. This is not only true of the unborn but also the handicapped, the elderly, and others. Do we kill them also? No, this is a political slogan, not a real argument.
You go on to state that if a person is not willing to foot the bill for others, they are “somewhat hypocritical”. This is foolishness. I’m against killing the elderly. do I have to quit my job and sleep at the retirement home? No, this is a political slogan, not a real argument.
In your next post you state, “how dare someone insinuate…”. Righteous indignation is fun at parties, it is not a real argument.
prochoice, you say there are too many children in foster homes and it is a horrible life to live. This would be a good reason to abstain from getting pregnant if you aren’t ready for a child. It’s not a reason to kill children that are already alive. I mean would you suggest orphans should be killed so they won’t have such terrible lives, without their consent? I mean who says those children would rather be dead than live in an orphanage? If someone is unhappy with their lives then we as a society try to make things better for those people or try to make them look at life in a positive way no one ever says they should not have been born. That is not the right attitude, that’s why we have suicide prevention clinics because we don’t encourage people to die.
What about parents who choose to give up their kids and put them in an orphanage, are they wrong? I mean if that’s a worst fate then dying shouldn’t you advocate for every parent who wants their kid adopted to abort instead? The adoption process in this country is broken and we need to work on fixing it. There are roughly 2 mil. parents willing to adopt a child each year, the problem isn’t that there aren’t enough families to go around so much as there isn’t easy access for those families to get to the children.
you say most pro-life people you talked to don’t want to pay for pre-natal care. It seems like what they really don’t want is to pay for an org. that funds abortion even if said org. does help women a lot. Even if the money isn’t directly going to abortion it is all in the same company. More money for pre-natal care from taxpayers means more money saved to spend for abortions.
Very well said, Kendall!
Pro “choice” IS pro-abortion. We are all in favor of the act of choosing, but something must be chosen. If you support the choice to abort, you are pro-abortion. And why do pro-aborts try to distance themselves from the word “abortion”….what is that?
Jordan, that approach has been the favored one of the pro-choice side for almost 40 years; it has singularly failed.
Abortion, teen pregnancy, child abuse are all still significantly higher than a generation ago.
Religious conservatives are against extra-marital sex because we consider sex as a major component of a healthy relationship, not some simple game that adults play. The “unwanted” children that result are the innocent bystanders, and this goes for those conceived in rapes or incest (The number of both of those are low enough that they do not truly affect any of the arguments).
Many of the pro-choice comments here are full of anger and bitterness and immature selfishness. Yours is not. Thank you.
Mine, Mine, Mine!!!
All societies place limits on what any of us may do with our own bodies; drinking ages, murder, theft, public nudity or sex, smoking, driving. Somehow the killing of one’s own child is the single action that divides people the most. It is tragic. But our passions ought not blind us to what does indeed happen when a doctor aborts a pregnancy, yes?
Aly,
I do not know why you are so angry, the vitriol leaps off the screen. But your arguments are sadly empty, and your recourse to them suggests strongly that you have simply accepted them, rather than sitting down and searching out why you do.
The GAP displays are meant to be tasteless, because the “medical procedure” they depict is itself tasteless. And you are right, your idea for a counter-display would likewise be disgusting, but for a very important distinction, the one is what truly happens and the other would be a cruel and callous mockery of a procedure that the pro-choice side claims it wishes to be “rare, safe, and legal”.
Your desire that things might be done differently is not, honestly, an insight on your part, it is the history of the pro-life movement since 1973. Sadly it is the pro-choice side that is, as you may have noticed since you were there, belligerent, divisive, and verbally abusive.
It does truly trouble me that you will soon be shepherding children through a part of their education. I do not intend to sound insulting, but there is no other way to say that I do not think you are up to it. They will bring all this anger and bitterness and hatred out of you, and they will see it for what it is. Some of them will like you, some will not. But right now, you are not presenting any solid grasp of history or morals or religion. And as a teacher, that is inexcusable.
I would love to conduct a civil debate on this board without having people put words in my mouth. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of people who need to follow guideline number one of this forum: “Criticize ideas, not people.” Although I disagree with several of the things that “Carla” says, I do agree that some individuals here need to learn to “talk like big boys and girls”. While I’m on the subject of Carla’s arguments, though, let me say that Planned Parenthood does offer many more sources other that abortion: including any and all other contraceptive methods; general health screenings for diseases such as diabetes, anemia, and high cholesterol; testing and treatment for many sexually transmitted infections (for males and females); and counseling for a variety of issues including body image, sexuality, gender identity, and sexual assault… just to name a few. Oh, and they do offer assistance with prenatal care.
Now, on to other arguments:
Hi there, Bobby. Let’s get one thing straight: if I were arguing to support in-utero FGM, then I would have said something along the lines of “I support the right for women to mutilate the genitals of their unborn daughters.” I didn’t. You’re making another faulty association. In-utero FGM is different than abortion for a few reasons, the first being that it would require the child to live the rest of their lives with parts of their body damaged. You’re also operating under the false assumption that all pro-choice individuals only consider a fetus a human being after it is born. Not so. Most states that allow abortion say that if the baby is developed enough where you can determine what gender it is, then it’s too late to have an abortion (unless, of course, the fetus threatens the mother’s life). I’d also like to point out that so much of the rhetoric used to describe abortion is unnecessarily violent and describes a procedure that is far from common. The most common abortions that are performed involve simply inducing a miscarriage in the mother’s body. Is it still killing? Yes, but there’s no ripping, no tearing, no cutting, or anything of the sort.
Kendallpeak… I don’t even know where to begin. Perhaps I’ll start by saying that referring to me personally IS an ad hominem attack, which is a fallacious argument. It would be on the same level as me calling you Hitler just because you’re creating a false other in order to incite fear and irrationality. It would also be similar to me simply calling you an idiot. But doing that would, again, accomplish nothing in terms of moving the debate forward. It just makes people take what you have to say less seriously. And to those who are maintaining this discussion board, I ask you not to delete her post, since I want everyone here to see what a fallacious argument looks like.
Now, if you want me to elaborate on my argument, I’d be happy to. First off, “loss of life” might be considered a polite way of saying “killing,” but not “murder”. To use the word murder would imply that there is some sort of malicious intent at play. That’s not a rhetorical argument, either, it’s a legal one. As far as death is concerned, you’re right. I do not consider all deaths equal. If you disagree, then I ask you this: would you rather die painlessly in your sleep or be tortured for days and days while being worked to death? Notice how I’m not saying that fetuses die peacefully in their sleep (so don’t try to say that I did). I’m simply saying that not all death is created equal.
That said, I’m hearing so many arguments to ban abortion based on the sole premise that a zygote or a fetus is a living thing. While this is a true statement, it seems that these arguments value certain forms of life over others. After all, a sperm is technically a living thing, as is an egg, or any other cell in your body for that matter. However these cells die all of the time. Now, we don’t consider these cells organisms, mostly because they cannot survive on their own outside of the body. Then again, a fetus cannot survive outside of the mother’s body on its own, but this association alone does not a solid argument make. Further arguments state that a fetus has its own unique set of genes, thus differentiating it from the mother. Then again, every plant has its own set of genes, and yet every person who picks a flower is not looked down upon for killing a living thing. The GAP is not faulted for the millions of blades of grass they killed. But then advocates go on to say that a fetus possesses certain anatomy. It has its own set of arms, legs, and so on. It has a heart and the beginnings of a central nervous system. It has the potential to respond to stimuli. Yet many of the same individuals who argue this point would not look down on the slaughter of livestock or poultry for purposes of consumption, and those organisms possess the same characteristics and then some. If killing a fetus is wrong based on the argument that a fetus is a living thing, then why is all life not created equal?
I’m not saying this to somehow equate a fetus with a blade of grass or a chicken. I am instead pointing out how so many pro-life activists have drawn this line in the sand: life begins at conception and everyone who believes otherwise is wrong. There’s nothing wrong with drawing the line, we all have to draw it somewhere. But doing so is based solely on our own beliefs and opinions, and every possibility has its own set of arguments and counter arguments. Whose to say that the line should be drawn at conception when it could just as easily be said that a fetus becomes a human being once it has a heartbeat, or once it has a complete central nervous system, or once it becomes possible to determine the fetus’ gender? I’m not arguing that conception is an incorrect place to draw the line, there are reasons for doing so. But there are justifications for drawing the line elsewhere. When each of us chooses to draw the line, that is our own personal opinion, and no person’s opinion is more valid than another’s. However so many individuals here maintain that their personal opinions are “truth”. I say to them that your opinion is no more valid than mine.
As the famous “horny young college dude” wearing the shirt proclaiming “I love pro-choice girls”, I think it’s interesting that some of you anti-choicers’ cast so much judgment upon a male claiming to support a women’s right to choose… especially when a male makes these judgments. Even more interesting, aren’t most of you claiming to be followers of Christ?
If you’d like to know who I am, I’m a senior Women’s Studies Major at FSU and the director of an organization Men Advocating Responsible Conduct (MARC), which provides programing and trainings to men around gender discrimination and sexual violence. I’m also in control of my “horny young” sex drive and treat both men and women with respect… that’s right, men too ;)
Very best,
-“horny young college dude”
Hey R.J. Thank you for the reply.
“Let’s get one thing straight: if I were arguing to support in-utero FGM, then I would have said something along the lines of “I support the right for women to mutilate the genitals of their unborn daughters.” I didn’t. You’re making another faulty association.”
I think you might be missing what I am trying to do here. My argument is that the principle you seem to base your support of abortion on also leads logically to things like allowing FGM in utero to be morally permissible. In other words, though of course you did not make the argument that FGM in utero is morally permissible, I claim that the same logic (if I understood your argument in favor of abortion correctly) that you use to justify abortion also justifies FGM in utero. But I think your next few points hash out your position more clearly.
“In-utero FGM is different than abortion for a few reasons, the first being that it would require the child to live the rest of their lives with parts of their body damaged.”
I’m not sure why this would be a problem. You in your earlier post said “We believe that it is no one person’s job to decide who should do what with which pregnancy.” If you tell a woman that she can’t perform FGM to her unborn, then you are telling her what she can do with her pregnancy. If she has total and absolute right over what happens inside her body, she has the right to perform FGM, regardless of the fact that it will affect the child later in life. Of course, I would argue that abortion affects the unborn later in teh life in the sense that it deprives the unborn of life. At least the child who suffered in utero FGM is alive.
“You’re also operating under the false assumption that all pro-choice individuals only consider a fetus a human being after it is born.”
I actually don’t see how I assumed this. In fact, I assume the opposite is true. That is, for teh sake of argument, the pro-choicer who appeals to bodily autonomy CONCEDES (again, for the sake of argument) that even if the unborn is a full human person with moral rights just like you or me from the moment of conception, it is still morally permissible to have an abortion. So for the sake of your argument, I actually assumed that pro-choicers think a fetus IS a human person.
“Not so. Most states that allow abortion say that if the baby is developed enough where you can determine what gender it is, then it’s too late to have an abortion (unless, of course, the fetus threatens the mother’s life).”
But this directly contradicts the right to a woman to not be told what she can and can’t do with her body during pregnancy. As many pro-choicers realize, if the right to control one’s body is sovereign, then these states are absolutely wrong to put any restrictions on abortion. So I’m wondering on what basis we say that abortion is a morally permissible action. If it is because of bodily autonomy, then states are wrong to outlaw late term abortions or gender selective abortions.
if someone were standing on the corner cutting off their fingers, then no, i wouldn’t tell them to stop. You have the right to do whatever you like with your own body and I have no right to force stanger to stop injuring his body. Do I approve? Obviously not. Self-injury is never something I condone, but I don’t have the right to force someone to stop. As far as drug use, that is slightly trickier. Yes, I do believe drug use is okay, but only until it infringes upon my own rights (such as to be safe). If you’re smoking weed in your house, fine. But if you’re drunk/high or whatever and you’re driving on the roads, in that instance in would not be okay because it infringes upon my rights (to be safe, for example). Because drug use so frequently endangers the public realm, there are very few instances in which it would be okay to use them.
A woman’s right to choose what exactly, I?
Women do not get pregnant by themselves so what you are advocating is death for the child you helped conceive.
I support a woman’s right to choose to get a tattoo or her ears pierced. I am prochoice on that.
In fact I have the best tattoo. It is the name of my daughter who died in my abortion.
Everyone who is pro-life on here:
You suggest putting a child up for adoption, rather than abort. That’s a lot of kids. So are all of you planning on adopting a child rather that giving birth to one? I feel the saying “put your money what your mouth is” would be most fitting here. Otherwise, you would imply that all of those unaborted children should just live until they’re 18 in foster homes, because there simply aren’t enough adoptive parents.
JS-
I wasn’t even talking about Planned Parenthood (also, on a side note: Abortions done at Planned Parenthood Clinics are not publicly funded. That has been against the law since 1974. They currently receive funds for other health care services, like cancer screening and family planning. But abortion services are subsidized exclusively by private donors). Many right wing conservatives often do not approve of using tax money to help low income families receive health care, including pre-natal care, and going through a pregnancy without prenatal care is risky.
If I never adopt, how does it follow that abortion DOES NOT take the life of an innocent preborn human?
If I never lift another finger to help another human being ever again, how does a child NOT die in an abortion?
That was not my argument. I am simply saying that if you believe one should not have an abortion, and instead carry a pregnancy to term and give a child up for adoption (if she chooses to not keep it), then you should also be one of those people willing to adopt the child.
I don’t believe in wife beating either. Shall I move in with my neighbors?
I am more than willing to adopt a child. In fact I would love to adopt a little girl with Down Syndrome.
How does that change the fact that abortion kills an innocent preborn child?
Oh and to be prochoice about abortion means to be proabortion.
Carla-
I don’t understand what you’re implying by your first comment. However, you would then be one of the few pro-life individuals willing to back up your claim of “then put the child up for adoption”.
I don’t see abortion as killing a child because I don’t believe it is a child. I don’t agree that once an egg is conceived it is alive. It isn’t alive yet. It’s not anything. That’s why it is an ‘it’. However, once the fetus can survive outside the fetus (with the assitance of machines), then I do believe it would be wrong to abort the pregancy. At that point, the fetus would have developed all limbs, and have a heartbeat, etc.. To abort in those cases, though, it would be a late term abortion and those are highly regulated and very few doctors perform them. I believe late term abortions are only okay if the mother’s heath is in danger.
From one former zygote to another,
Almost every prolifer here would adopt a child to save him/her from being killed in an abortion!! But that is so beside the point!
What you believe or perceive on when life begins has no bearing.
Basic biology trumps any assertion you have that IT is in fact an IT.
Please google fetal development and see for yourself. Life begins at conception.
Do you believe that folks on life support are human???
PS
Limbs develop by 6 weeks!! I know. Be amazed!!
When the mother’s health is in danger we have something called a C-section. You might want to look that up too.
That is frequently not an option. Especially if the fetus has moved into an area it shouldn’t be in.
Where would a fetus move to where it can’t be delivered? Ohio?
I misspoke though.
When a mother wants her child to live and her health is in danger an emergency c-section is performed. Preemies have made it even being 24 weeks along!!
When a mother orders a dead child and it is late in pregnancy then the child is killed in several different ways. Chopped up inside and brought out piece by piece, delivered alive and left to die, shot through the heart and killed in utero and then delivered or partial birth abortion. Oh wait. Silly me. Those are illegal. But an abortionist would deliver the baby breech until the head was still in the birth canal, stab the baby in the back of the head and then suction out his brains.
Well, prochoice. This has been lovely, but I must go tend to the children I allowed to live.
I am simply saying that if you believe one should not have an abortion, and instead carry a pregnancy to term and give a child up for adoption (if she chooses to not keep it), then you should also be one of those people willing to adopt the child.
Ah, ok, so… I’m not allowed to believe that sex trafficking is wrong, unless I’m willing to go out and personally rescue a woman from sex traffickers. I can’t be against domestic abuse unless I’m willing to take a woman and her children into my home and personally support them. I’m not allowed to be against rape unless I am willing to personally deal with a woman who has been raped. Got it.
I’m more than willing to adopt a child. How many pro-lifers do you actually know? I know many, MANY families who have adopted children (one in particular ONLY adopts special needs children), and they are pro-life. I think maybe you need to get out more. P.S. – if the cost for the adoption process were anywhere near affordable for the average family, more people would adopt. Money is the chief obstacle.
R.J. I, too, don’t know where to begin. Your post is unbelievable. You say there is a difference between killing and murder because murder implies a malicious intent. There is no malicious intent in sucking the brains out of an unborn child? You seem to be so incredibly locked into the “baby is nothing mindset” you can’t even comprehend the opposite. If one person kills another, because that other is a nuisance, that is malicious intent. You then go on to compare methods of death. You ask me whether I would prefer to die in my sleep or by torture. The point is that I would prefer to not have someone kill me whether I’m sleeping or awake. My God man. Hitler argued that killing Jews was desirable to the German Race, you argue that killing babies is desirable since it is done cleanly.You now start the silliness about an unborn baby being life, but what kind of life. The unborn baby is not sperm or egg or hair follicle, it has it’s own unique DNA, making it it’s own person. The baby doesn’t have puppy DNA or kitty kat DNA, it has human DNA.
Sir, you now go on to compare the babies life to blades of grass or chickens. Guess what? When I butcher a cow to eat it, I have killed a cow. I admit it. Cows are not people. If you are one of these folks who equate the life of a cow to a person, well have a nice day.
You now go on to say we all have the right to our opinion of when life begins. Show your true colors sir. I have a friend who says life begins when a child is six months old. Should he be allowed to kill a 5 month old. He also says children who have mental or physical ailments, since they cannot take care of themselves, are not really alive. Should we kill them?
You conclude by saying that no one person’s opinion is any more valid than any others. This would be called anarchy. Using this criteria, why stop at abortion, lets argue simply that the strong should kill the weak.
So Carla has had an abortion, or was she just saying that to prove a point? Because if so, what makes you think that you are so special that YOU deserve to get an abortion while all other women with unwanted pregnancies don’t deserve one? Your sense of entitlement is shocking.
My abortion was the most horrifying experience of my life. We are not talking about a trip to Disney World for goodness sakes!
Shocking? LOL
Oh and my daughter who died in my abortion? She deserved to live.
So Carla has had an abortion, or was she just saying that to prove a point? Because if so, what makes you think that you are so special that YOU deserve to get an abortion while all other women with unwanted pregnancies don’t deserve one? Your sense of entitlement is shocking.
“Deserved?” What kind of twisted logic is this?
Waaah, she got ice cream and I DIDN’T! I don’t think so.
Let’s rephrase and see if this makes any sense at all: What makes you think you are so special that you deserve to [kill your own child] while all other women with unwanted [unborn children] don’t deserve [to kill theirs like you did]?
WHAT?!? *headdesk*
Carla, if you thought your abortion was the most horrifying experience of your life, then why did you get one?
And yes Kel, that is exactly what I am saying. Carla made a choice and other people can make the same choice or a different one. No one should try to make that choice for them.
V Maybe Carla got an abortion because she believed the lie that an abortion was no big deal. Maybe now that she has realized that the abortion industry’s product is a horrific assault upon human dignity, she is trying to save others from this tragic nightmare. Maybe the abortion industry is an evil industry that has killed more people than big tobacco.
V,
If you had a horrible experience in your life, wouldn’t you want to protect your loved ones from having to endure the same? That’s why Carla’s here. Please give her the respect she deserves.
Okay, nobody could be THAT obtuse.
V, imagine someone who was a heroin addict. Then they got clean…..then they try to help others not become heroin addicts, or to help addicts come clean. Post-abortive women like Carla are trying to help women see that abortion is horrific, tragic, destructive. It is not a medical procedure. It is killing. No other “medical procedure” ends the life of another human being against his or her will. Medicine should heal, not kill. There is absolutely nothing redeeming or liberating about abortion. NOTHING.
goodness V – ever make a mistake, and then told someone else not to do the same to protect them? Help them? save them?
While we do not know your experience (maybe you want to share what your background is), Carla and other very brave, beautiful women are telling their stories so that women and children do not have to go through what she went through.
remember – these are not hypothetical things we are talking about here – this is whether a human gets to live or not. That is a very grave choice and the moral one is to let the child live. Women live with regret for the rest of their lives – and this is something one can not take back. This is not ‘I wish I had vanilla instead of chocolate.’ This is not, what shall we do this weekend? This is not what school do I attend – this is: am I going to do something that will result in the death of a human?
And no one should be making that decision.
Oh – and to the person who really doesn’t think the unborn is a child or is human, and therefore they can kill it. Asking in a phrase that others do: “What species were you a part of when your mother was pregnant with you?”
If the answer is ‘human’ then we may not kill it.
Oh – and for the person who called the unborn an ‘it’ – while we can SEE the sex of the baby until later in gestation, the determination of that child’s sex is INSTANTANEOUSLY determined at conception. And so was the skin color, eye color, hair color, DNA makeup, etc. etc.
Ain’t biology wonderful? ;)
To Kevin W Boyd,
Thank you for replying to my comment. I can absolutely see where you are coming from. I do have a question about it.
You say that religious groups do not advocate the use of condoms because they believe sex is not “some simple game that adults play.” However, you also note that “Abortion, teen pregnancy, [and] child abuse are all still significantly higher than a generation ago.” Based on that last observation, do you think it might be to the benefit of religious organizations to start advocating safe sex if teenagers are just going to keep doing it anyways?
I believe that, in general, many teenagers are going to keep having pre-marital sex regardless of what the religious or conservative groups say. That is why I believe that in might be in the best interest of the church to try adopting a new policy so as to help solve the bigger problem, which is the abortion of children.
I understand that it might be difficult to imagine the church changing their stance on pre-marital sex, but in my mind if they could somehow combine with pro-choice groups in the advocating of safe sex, we may just be able to see a decrease in the number of unwanted pregnancies.
I also want to address something else you said. I am neither Pro-Life or Pro-Choice because I have never known someone personally who has been in a situation like that and therefore do not feel it is my place to take a stand one way or the other. So I just want you to know that you are not addressing a person on either side of this topic (although I suppose I would be classified by others as more pro-life because I love babies. They have such chubby cheeks!)
To Jordan, regarding your last post. There is a key difference that must be realized when relating any topic to the position of the Church. The Church begins the approach to any topic with their interpretation of their sacred teachings. This is true not only of the Catholic Church, but I would imagine for any religion. In other words, the Church looks at any topic with the the mind set of what is the truth?, what is right?, what is God’s teachings?, what is God’s will? They do not look at situations with the mind set of what do we think will yield the best results? In all fairness to the Church, they are an institution that looks at forming doctrine based on thousands of years, not on coming up with quick fixes to local and time limited social issues centered in the West.Even if one disagrees with the Church on any topic, one must realize that it is any religions job to try to stand firm in the dogma of their faith and not to blow along with the current social and political winds.
I know I’m getting far afield, but our American politicians are more known for basing their decisions on perceived outcome rather than matters of principle, perhaps our nation would be doing better right now if we had politicians who were more based on principles than perceived outcomes.
V,
Um. Are you serious?
How would I KNOW that abortion would be the most horrifying experience until I went through it?? That ol crystal ball would have come in quite handy.
OR are you sincerely asking WHY I had an abortion?
If you click on my name it takes you to one of my blogs. On the right hand side you will see a video of me telling my abortion story.
Go for it. I double dog dare ya.
I believe that, in general, many teenagers are going to keep having pre-marital sex regardless of what the religious or conservative groups say. That is why I believe that in might be in the best interest of the church to try adopting a new policy so as to help solve the bigger problem, which is the abortion of children.
I believe that, in general, many teenagers are going to keep drinking beer regardless of what their schools say. That is why I believe that it might be in the best interest of the schools to try adopting a new policy so as to help solve the bigger problem, which is alcoholism.
Hand out beer at school.
Carla, thank you for sharing your story. I watched the video of you at Faith Community Church on your blog. I think it is very sad that you got an abortion when that wasn’t the right choice for you. That being said, what is right for you is not right for everyone. And you know yourself better than you know anyone else, so if you made the wrong choice for yourself, how can you expect that you would make the right choice for other people? No one forced you to choose abortion, and I am sorry if you regret it, but you chose it and other women have that same right of choice. Just because abortion was the wrong choice for you, doesn’t mean it is the wrong choice for everyone.
Just because abortion was the wrong choice for you, doesn’t mean it is the wrong choice for everyone.
How many women (or men for that matter) made the wrong choice by choosing to have their child, V. How many of my children were the wrong choice?
If abortion is sometimes the right choice, giving birth must be the wrong choice just as often, not?
There is no “whatever works for you” with abortion. It’s not rhinoplasty…..it is the deliberate dismemberment and incineration of your own child. No child is a CHOICE. All of them are people, who do not deserve to die. If we were not talking about human beings, then none of us would care. I don’t care if someone gets breast augmentation (though I think it’s ridiculous)….I DO care when a woman chooses to kill her own baby so that she can live the way she feels she’s entitled to. We are not entitled to have babies when we want; they are a PRIVILEGE, not a right. They deserve our love and protection and respect. They are their own person, they are not someone’s property, not even their mothers’.
V,
Thank you for watching my story. It means a lot to me that you did!!
And I have to ask you again how in the world I would know that abortion was WRONG for me(in addition to how wrong it was for my baby girl)until I went through with it? There was no one in my life telling me anything different. The mill certainly wasn’t interested in showing me the truth and I was in crisis. If I had known then(20 years ago)what I know now…………..
Do you always know how things will turn out before you do them?
In my case you must not have been paying very close attention. I never had a pregnancy test or an ultrasound. I was lied to by omission when told IT was just a bunch of cells. I was 10 weeks along!!! Later on I miscarried my 2nd child into my hand and saw a tiny fully formed human baby! Not a bunch of red circles.
Google fetal development at 10 weeks. Go on. I know you want to.
Stare at that image awhile. Feast your eyes.
Here I’ll help. http://www.baby2see.com/development/week10.html
How is it choice when women aren’t given informed consent, are pressured by those around them to abort, coerced by lies, forced by boyfriends or abandoned to “do whatever you think is right for you?”
It’s not. It is not choice when one is left with no choice.
Abortion was more than “the wrong choice” for me.(I made a wrong choice today to leave my mittens at home.) One more time. I was pregnant when I walked into that mill. My daughter’s tiny body was suctioned through a vacuum tube and put in a bottle to be pieced back together. She died that day. I left her there. I walked out a very wounded woman and still a mother.
Why in the world would I NOT tell others that abortion hurts women? Abortion kills children. Abortion will never solve, help, heal or empower.
Oh and just food for thought here when speaking or writing and you say I’m sorry BUT….it cancels out the I’m sorry.
Sweet dreams, V.
If you have had an abortion and are struggling or know of someone who is please get in touch with me. My deepest pain has become my greatest passion.
carla@jillstanek.com
Speaking as someone who is against abortion here is what I have an issue with:
Wheres the consideration for the students who are against abortion but perhaps have just miscarried or lost an infant/newborn to sids? It took my husband and I 3 years to conceive successfully. But after just experiencing my fourth miscarriage the weekend prior let me tell you how insulting and upsetting it is to walk on campus and have this pushed in my face. and then to have some 16 year female who has never been pregnant let alone lost a child (not by her own choice) try to explain and defend her groups actions… appalling. I don’t condone what your group is doing at all. This is not the way Christians/Catholics should behave you should be ashamed.
Secondly, I didn’t see any of these activists handing out pamphlets on adoptions or other options aside from a post abortion counseling hotline. The point of the demonstration was just to get in your face with obscene images. This right wing extremity does nothing for the cause but make you all look like nutt jobs. Especially when your screaming one point of view (valid as it may be) but offering NO OTHER information on how to possibly help women who are pregnant and contemplating that choice. Stupidity. If they were smart they would be handing out pamphlets about adoption, or even medical assistance for the pregnancy,even women’s shelters or have a network of some kind to assist someone facing an issue concerning pregnancy/abortion. again, disgraceful.
Another idea, have the images turned inward facing the stage you had set up with a warning … you want to exercise your free speech I want to exercise my right to not be reminded of 4 miscarriages the day of my midterm exam.
ps whats next I guess were going to let westboro baptist church in now too.. where do we draw the line
Hi Jordan.
I want to address one thing in particular that you said, somewhat in passing, but that I think is mistaken and unfortunately a common view among many people. You said:
“I am neither Pro-Life or Pro-Choice because I have never known someone personally who has been in a situation like that and therefore do not feel it is my place to take a stand one way or the other.”
Now it is fine to not be pro-life or pro-choice in the sense that you are still weighing the arguments or don’t feel you’ve learned enough to make an informed decision yet. That isn’t what I’m critiquing. What I would like to critique is the idea that one must know someone personally in a certain kind of situation in order to make an informed decision on the matter. That a priori treats abortion as not a moral issue, but as some kind of preference. I don’t need to have known anyone who underwent or was involved in female genital mutilation to know that it is wrong and have a very strong opinion against it. I don’t need to know anyone who has been raped or involved in such a situation in order to make up my mind one way or another about teh moral permissibility of rape. Thus by claiming that you need to know someone in a situation like that in order to make a decision as to teh morality of abortion, you are either implicitly claiming that the morality of certain actions are determined by situations or that abortion is not a moral issue, but merely a matter of preference.
So I might be careful to make sure that this is really the position you would take when it comes to other possible moral issues.
Dear Nicole,
I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your four precious babies. There are several of us here that have lost babies to miscarriage. I have had two.
The purpose of this display is to educate those that have never seen what an abortion actually does to an innocent preborn human child. The intent is not to hurt mothers that have lost children to abortion or miscarriage.(I have had an abortion as well)
Miscarriages and abortions are two different things.
The photos are disturbing because abortion is disturbing.
The photos are obscene because abortion is obscene.
The photos are vile because abortion is vile.
The photos are horrific because abortion is horrific.
The photos are disgusting because abortion is disgusting.
I do not know whether or not they hand out helpful pamphlets. If they don’t, I agree. They should.
I am praying that you find peace and comfort in your grief.
Miscarriages and abortions are indeed two different things however when your sitting in an emergency room and get taken to their ultrasound lab so they can give you the awful news that you are currently/ have miscarried and you get up to compose yourself and keel over in excruciating pain while silvery and purple fetal parts pour out your extremities… I’m sure its an image you would never want too see again, and for this particular group to use those images, again offering no other pertinent information our assistance is laughable and disgusting. Its not just the images that are obscene, disgusting and disgraceful as well as in bad taste its also in the way this group tried to exploit those images and yet again… without anything other than those images to support their cause. again you want to use those images, there should be nothing wrong with turning them inward, you still have your free speech and we still have our freedom not too be exposed to things we don’t want to be exposed to.
Nicole,
I am sorry for what you have been through.
I have been through miscarriage twice. I delivered my second child into my hand at 10 weeks. I know exactly what you are saying.
The parts of your baby that you saw are not the parts of a baby that is being shown in the display.
I also understand the grieving process after miscarriage. The anger stage of blaming everyone and everything for the baby that was not born and lost all too soon.
The photos of torn babies that were killed during abortion have nothing to do with miscarriage. They remind us again and again and again that abortion is a horrifying act as it takes the life of a human child. These children did not die in vain however. Their short lives and brutal deaths are now being shown to the world and SHAME ON US!!!
If you recall there was a young man who spoke about the abortion he and his girlfriend had. He stated if he had only known they wouldn’t have had that abortion.
That is the only confirmation I need to know that this works. It touches hearts and changes minds and the brutal truth of abortion is out there for the world to see.
We are all exposed to things we may or may not agree with. It is our reaction to it that shines a light on our need to grow and learn.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Again. My heart aches for ANYONE that has lost a child. Have you ever read the book I’ll Hold You in Heaven by Jack Hayford? It is one of the most precious books I have ever read. I will send you a free copy if you would like. You can email me your address here.
carla@jillstanek.com
Just wanted to say kudos to the pro-lifers on this site who’ve made comments and to Jill for posting this story. For those who say that this display fails to reopen the abortion debate and fails to get people talking about the issue, just look at the comments on the blog.
Sure this might not change the minds of those so open-minded they would wear “I love pro-choice girls” t-shirts, but for the many people we talked to who are in the middle of the issue or at least those who are intellectually honest, we know that minds were changed.
I’m sorry that some pro-lifers still feel the need to criticize the display because it might cause them pain. It is not our intent. But please ask yourself this question: if we were able to save lives when we did GAP at the school, is that worth the pain you endure? Regardless of how pained you are, isn’t it worth knowing that a baby’s life was saved because women and men saw the images and decided not to abort?
That happened at least twice on our Florida tour this year – that we know of. Two babies will be born because brave students helped put up this display. When was the last time your pro-life events did that?