Jivin J’s Life Links 8-22-11
by JivinJ, host of the blog, JivinJehoshaphat
- Margaret Somerville comments on “deselecting our children”:
Here’s a recent Danish headline:
“Plans to make Denmark a Down syndrome-free perfect society.” The Danes want to promote aborting fetuses with Down syndrome, so their society will be free of such people around 2030. One bioethicist describes it as a “fantastic achievement.”
At least the Danes are raising this issue. In North America, it’s estimated that more than 90% of unborn babies with Down syndrome are aborted.
- Thomas Stevens is hoping the Kentucky Supreme Court will hear his case and award damages for the death of his unborn grandson:
14 weeks pregnant, Desiree Amber Stevens was heading east on Ky. 52 in Estill County on Aug. 16, 2008, when another driver tried to cross the highway in front of her, causing a horrific crash that killed Stevens and her unborn child.
The other driver, Gina Flynn, and Stevens’ insurance carrier, Progressive Direct, settled a wrongful death suit for an undisclosed amount that was filed by Thomas A. Stevens on his 24-year-old daughter’s behalf.
But Flynn and Progressive refused to pay a penny for the wrongful death of Stevens’ unborn grandson — and Circuit Judge Thomas Jones said they didn’t have to.
- The Joplin Globe has the story of a pregnant mother who, along with her unborn child, survived the tornado that hit Joplin:
As daylight peeked through the twisted remains of the store, [Matthew] Morris could see that [Desiree] Rodgers [both pictured left] was bearing the brunt of the pressure.
She had learned about 6 weeks earlier that she was pregnant.
When he saw her awkward position under the weight of the collapsed store walls, “I was thinking about the baby but I wasn’t going to say that to her,” [her fiance] Morris said. “I wanted her thinking of her life.” …
[Carthage Fire Dept. Captain Jason] Martin said it was a difficult rescue because the jack used to lift the rubble, called a portable ram, was nearly overburdened. Every step the firefighters took in the debris pushed harder on Rodgers.
“I would say she had well over a ton on her back,” Martin said. “Our machines almost wouldn’t lift it.” The jack stalled once, straining against the weight, and then moved again….
During her tests, an ultrasound was done and the technologist asked her father, “How would you like to be a Granddad?”
The baby was alive.
- The New York Times covers the early testing to determine a fetus’s sex:
“I think over the long run this has the potential of changing attitudes toward pregnancy and to family,” said Audrey R. Chapman, a bioethicist at the University of Connecticut Health Center. “Women may be less invested in their pregnancies earlier than they are later, and the question has been raised whether women will look at their pregnancies increasingly as being conditional: ‘I will keep this pregnancy only if.’ “
Fetal sex tests have a few medical applications, allowing couples with histories of rare sex-linked disorders to avoid costly and invasive genetic testing if they learn they are expecting the other sex. But for most couples, the tests, which are unregulated, simply answer the boy-or-girl question weeks earlier than ultrasound, and in a less invasive and safer way than amniocentesis.
[Photo by T. Rob Brown via The Joplin Globe]
The story about the young mom and 3 month old boy killed by a driver shows why we need to protect human life across the board. “Viability” is arbitrary. We have courts saying a 24 week fetus that lived for 12 days outside the womb was not viable? Since when does viability = worth? Viability is an ever moving marker. There was a time viability was 30 weeks, then 28 now 25 and even increasingly younger babies are surviving. They have nothing in common except that they are ALL HUMAN BEINGS and thus should have worth based on that alone. We are moving towards the day when you will be able to kill disabled people and there will be no consequence because you must be viable AND have a certain mental function in order to be protected. More and more hoops to jump through just to have your life deemed worthy.
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When Iwas growing up, I saw a fair amount of Down Syndrome children out and about, now I hardly see any. I wondered what was going on until I read that most of them are aborted. As a person with a psychiatric disorder, this sort of thing makes me very, very nervous. Bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc., definitely have a genetic component. Why not eliminate people like me — after all, who wants a bunch of “nutty” people running around?
Read the comments about the article, some of them are very chilling.
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omg it’s just like a knife in my heart today. i just can’t even bear to think about another baby being ripped to sheds because of DS. has anyone seen the girl with DS on Glee asking that we banner the word retard just like people want others to refrain from gay and racial slurrs?
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should. say ban. why are we so fixated on a perfection that doesn’t exist? so 5 foot 11 and 100 pounds looks perfect? who says so? Tyrant. Banks and @company? Janice Dickenson bragged that the egg of a supermodel goes for 2 million bucks! lol. so i guess that’s next. if you don’t look like a supermodel you aren’t worth much!
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Which is pretty funny H, since I think Janice Dickenson (long legged or not) is hideously ugly. My husband and I both normal looking people… not ugly but not beautiful and I have to say we produced one good looking boy!!! I may be biased in my opinion just a little. :-)
My friends first son has Downs and this little boy’s grandma told me personally that he is her FAVORITE grandchild because he LOVES to cuddle with her for hours. You cannot look at that family and not see that if that child were not with them there would be a HUGE hole in their hearts.
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@Sydney — Janice Dickinson’s better days are behind her. She looks like a hag. I usually don’t like to make fun of people’s looks, but she is always talking about someone else, so there (meow)!!
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Anyone who thinks aborting DS children is ok needs to volunteer with Special Olympics. A more loving, appreciative group of athletes you will never find.
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Hi phillymiss,
Janice Dickinson is one mass of cosmetic surgery, and its definitely been overdone.
Janice, live with it, we all pass our prime. Artifically preserving ourselves looks just like, well, we’re artificially preserving ourselves.
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Hi Eric,
The real irony of DS is that it can be treated and the symptoms minimized. Much like PKU, it is a deficiency problem. Nutrivene nutritional supplements and therapy are available, but I have yet to encounter a DS parent that is even aware of it. I have even encountered resistance from parents when I inform them. Why, we know all there is to know about DS, our doctors tell us Nutrivene is a waste of time. Uh, no we don’t know everything about much of anything. Also, if there’s a possible treatment why not try it? What can it hurt? Its so discouraging the people who will deny a DS child a potentially effective therapy because some doctor told them to.
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Sometimes, becaues I want to understand them better, I read the babycenter group for women who have aborted due to “medical reasons.” I’d say about 60% of those “medical reasons” are Down Syndrome.
The thing that is so shocking to me is that there is no happiness in that group. They are all bitter and in mourning.
It is really a stark contrast between the abortion group and the group for women who have a child with DS. The mothers with living children are all joyful and happy. They are realistic with the diagnosis, but they are constantly talking about how excited they are for their little ones to be standing or walking or whatever.
One group is suffering, and it’s not the ones who carried to term.
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Mary: Janice Dickinson is one mass of cosmetic surgery, and its definitely been overdone.
Had not heard of her, but wow – yeah – she’s getting that “cat-woman” look.
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hi Mary it’s nice to see you. yes good old Janice had to have all the attention on Celebrity Rehab with Dr Drew. she befriended her roommate by sharing clothes and secrets and then accused thepoor girl from stealing from her
the girl left and the “stolen” merchandise was found. all the guys in rehab. begged Rachel Uchatel to come back and she did
Janice was furious when she returned
she had an out and out temper tantrum!
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i imagine that group of kids with DS would be awfully cuddly. i love to cuddle with my 13 month old but he eventually breaks camp to go explore!
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Hi Mary, I have worked with the DS community a little bit through Special Olympics, but I had not heard of Nutrivene, but it sounds very encouraging. Glad you mentioned it here.
“We don’t know everything about much of anything” — I couldn’t agree more, especially when it comes to life. A supposed expert doctor told my mother when she was expecting me that I would likely die before birth or at best end up mentally and physically disabled due to hemolytic anemia (Rh factor) in utero. He recommended abortion. Fortunately my mother found another doctor who arranged for my early birth via C-section – seven weeks early in 1966. I weighed 4 lbs 2 oz and have lived a very non-disabled life thanks to my mother and no thanks to her original “expert” doctor.
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also Janice aborted 3 times. i don’t want to make this post about her but Christy Brinkley’s daughter tried to kill herself over stupid comments like Janices
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Yay for your mother, Eric! :D
Funny thing, Eric, my daughter was born seven weeks early, and weighed 4lbs 2 oz ;)
BTW…my daughter is perfectly healthy, too.
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God bless you, Pamela, for being a good mom since it probably was a bit stressful with a daughter so small.
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Hi Doug,
Good to see you. Speaking of looking like catwoman have you seen the gal that looks like a lion? I’d be embarassed to admit I was her plastic surgeon. Not exactly what a plastic surgeon would want as a walking advertisement.
Apparently her husband left her for another woman and that’s when it started. Looks like he got the last laugh.
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It’s not possible to abort Down’s Syndrome out of existence.
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Hi heather,
Good to see you back.
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Hi Eric,
So glad to see your life has turned out so well. Keep in mind there were no NICUs then so preemies survived on their own with whatever care they were given. I remember caring for preemies in the hospital nursery, with only the critically ill newborns and preemies with any chance of survival being sent to the children’s hospital.
You can google more information on Nutrivene. Actually a treatment for DS was discovered decades ago by a Dr.Turkel I believe, though never treated seriously or given any consideration by the all knowing medical establishment. If I recall correctly, Dr.Turkel was ridiculed for his findings. It was “rediscovered” when the devoted mother of an adopted DS baby did her research.
The resistance I have encountered Eric just boggles my mind. If I were such a parent, hey, give me the literature and the website. I will try ANYTHING!
One couple I sent the info wouldn’t even consider trying it because their doctor told them not to bother. That absolutely enraged me. First and most important being that their child will endure preventable symptoms and mental deficiency, and second that parents were so blindly submissive.
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hi Mary! i swear o was watching a show about botched plastic surgery yesterday and lion woman was indeed number one! i don’t have any problems with a lit nip tuck
i had breast augmentation back in 98 but one would think that a Beverly hills surgeon would be the. best. i had better. work done in Ohio! i had it done because my breasts were asymmetric
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Hi heather,
Speaking of Janice. Years ago Sylvester Stallone walked out on his fiance of several years to marry Janice who was supposedly pregnant with his daughter. The galoot didn’t even have the decency to speak to her, he broke up with her by sending her a fax.
After the baby was born Old Sylvester found out it wasn’t his but some other man Janice was sleeping with as well as Sylvester, who I assume Sylvester knew nothing about! The satisfaction it must have given the rejected fiancee. Well, it would have me anyway! I mean, I was overjoyed when my ex boyfriend was dumped by the woman he dumped me for! Throw a little public humiliation in there as well. Couldn’t keep your woman satisfied Sly? Talk about poetic justice. It couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy. He did marry the rejected fiancee but I hope she made him crawl on his hands and knees across the country first.
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Sydney i wish you a safe and happy pregnancy! i was sorry to hear you were sick. i was quite ill with my last 2. i blamed my age. i was so nauseous and dehydrated with both pregnancies. hang on and it will get better!
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oh Mary. i remember that story well. the other model was Jennifer Flavin. they are indeed still married with kids of their own. btw lion woman loves her look. no accountability for taste i guess
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also one more point about Janice. 3 abortions and substance abuse
Heidi Fleiss had the same problem
remember when she said. “thank God for abortion “
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and they say post abortion syndrome doesn’t. exist phooey! i went to another site the other day where all women had aborted. out of about 25 posts i read all but 2 said that their abortions left them lonely empty wanting to be pregnant again self loathing loss of intimacy especially if the abortions were coerced. these women were a wreck and i was sad for them.
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Dear Danish People: HITLER would BE PROUD, Go ahead and continue the ‘work’ HE STARTED. You will not learn from the mistakes of the past.
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Liz you always make such a great point!
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Hi Liz,
Another point. Denmark was occupied by the Nazis during WW2. Apparently they learned a thing or two.
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Hey, Eric, I had pretty much exactly the same situation in my family. A doctor insisted my mom abort her last (tenth) pregnancy because of the risk of the baby having hemolytic anemia. (Only the last child had an RH factor different from hers and had sensitized her).
My mom simply said, “I could never do that; I’m Catholic, you know.” My beautiful youngest sister was born perfectly healthy, and now has two children of her own.
I know I’ve told this story here before, but I’ve never added a point that shows how important it is to trust God. Many years after my sister’s birth, one of my brothers, who back then had been a troubled teen, confessed to Mom that he had seriously been considering suicide when she got pregnant. Only curiosity about seeing what the baby would be like kept him from it. When she was born, the two bonded immediately, and he no longer thought of suicide from that moment on. They have been close ever since.
Everything truly happens for a purpose. My mother’s decision actually saved two lives!
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Thanks for the information Mary. It is troubling that some parents are apparently too afraid to challenge their “expert” doctor if the doc says, “Don’t bother,” even when given hope for their DS child.
Amazing story Lori. So glad to hear of your mom’s faithfulness to life and how that made a difference to your brother as well as your sister. I assume she was a preemie?
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Lori, what a beautiful story about your brother and sister! God is great indeed!
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Eric, she wasn’t premature that I recall, or if she was, not very much. Nor did my Mom have a C-section. My sister did have a bit of jaundice when she was born due to the RH problem. More I don’t remember. (This took place over 30 years ago).
I think the situation just turned out not to be as serious as that doctor thought. Also, he was not my mother’s ob-gyn. What happened was that my father had been hospitalized with some very alarming symptoms, and my mom confided in his doctor that she suspected she was pregnant and didn’t know whether to tell him right then or not because of his illness. I think he was the one who gave her the pregnancy test, and discussed her medical history with her.
He immediately gave her all sorts of dire warnings abased on the RH factor, and the fact that she was past 40,which meant that she was at greater risk of having a Down Syndrome baby. None of that happened, of course. But some doctors certainly like to play God. Thank God she didn’t listen to him!
My sister was quite a surprise baby for my parents; I was 20 when she was born. Having her in our lives has been an enormous joy to us.
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Hey guys, I’m starting out with a new doctor’s office (ob/gyn) here soon & I was wondering if there’s a way I could find out if they provide abortions without straight out asking them (which I wouldn’t be comfortable doing)? The reason being, due to my personal convictions, I wouldn’t be comfortable having a doctor who also provides abortions.
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I think DS children are special. That extra chromosome seems to enable unconditional love. And it amplifies love and humility in the family.
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“As a person with a psychiatric disorder, this sort of thing makes me very, very nervous. Bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc., definitely have a genetic component. Why not eliminate people like me — after all, who wants a bunch of “nutty” people running around?”
by phillymiss on Aug 22, 2011 at 1:53 pm
Having witnessed nasty comments and the stigma surrounding developmental disabilities & mental illness, I often wonder the same & worry…
A few years back, when my husband and I were looking for a house to rent, we ran into a landlord who made comments which were quite prejudiced & ignorant towards those with developmental disabilities. Needless to say I brought out my claws, but in a calm and terse voice set him straight. The whole story can be found here.
Also, I’ve observed plenty of ignorance & stigma in the media & also have personally experienced stigma at a former workplace..
*Shakes head* We need to continue to fight stigma and ignorance with public awareness and education, as well as policy changes which continue to protect the rights of those with disabilities and mental illness.
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So the Danes won’t have anyone attending the Special Olympics…looks like they and the “bioethicist” have a terminal condition that deteriorates rapidly – insanity.
Reminds me of another group from Europe bent on having a perfect society.
The problem is – people are being way too tolerant of such blatant discrimination. It’s like saying “Please don’t remove the cancer – those malignant cells deserve to live too!”.
Wonder what’s next on their list of social scrubbing?
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Down’s Syndrome is a tough issue…
Mary: Speaking of looking like catwoman have you seen the gal that looks like a lion?
Yes, Mary, and that is indeed a sad story – Jocelyn Wildenstein. Her ex-husband likes big cats, I guess the thinking was that looking like one would make him return to her.
Hmm…. “Wildenstein” = “Wild nature” + “Frankenstein”?
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The Danes, according to surveys, are the happiest people in the world. They are also the least religious. They are well educated and have a strong social safety net. Interesting….
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And this makes blantent eugenics and discrimination ok how, CC?
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“The Danes, according to surveys, are the happiest people in the world.”
Aborted Danes with Down Syndrome, however, were not available for the survey.
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Rachael you raised a good point that came to my mind while i was pregnant with my last 2 kids. i know the hospital that delivered my children also commits abortions. one side delivers and the other side kills. i did not want an abortionist touching me! i really didn’t know how to go about asking either but i do know that there are pro life obgyns out there. my exes brother has 9 and she would just look on line or ask. she succeeded in finding one
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CC, can you post a link? The only measures of a country’s happiness that I can find are really about prosperity. A country like Haiti has no chance to make it on a list like that given how “happiness” is defined, and yet the joy the Haitian people exhibit even amid devastation such as the earthquake is amazing.
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aaagh let me correct my last post. it should say that my exes brother has 9 kids and his wife only wanted a pl doctor. she found a few on line
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it should be my right to choose a pro life doctor. I’ve told this story here before. i go to a teaching hospital so there are times that you may see a doctor that you don’t click with. well i got a young lady who really thought she was a big shot. i think she was trying to show off in front of her student. we were discussing an IUD and i told her that i didn’t want one because i had heard they cause abortion. with that she announced to me that she performed abortions and informed me that i was feeding into too much right. wing propaganda! then she said that if a man had to push a baby out of his penis there wouldn’t be any children!
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Heather, you crack me up sometimes. :)
But you know, that thing about a man pushing a baby…. I think she had a point.
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so with that she trotted off and returned with a bunch of left wing propaganda
she sat there with her lab coat that boasted Dr Colleen Krajewski. I used to feel like a big shot nurse back in the 80s when i went to nursing school. now i put on my scrubs and it’s no biggie. I think Colleen was. trying to dumb me down that day. don’t be intimidated by the white lab coat. doctors are just human beings but Colleen is a murderer. i. was told of some of the docs who would be on rotation for my due date and the nurse told me Colleen was an option. my response? “absolutely not”!!!
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good Doug I’m glad you were humored. from your last post i take it you left Ohio?
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i delivered Jacob Isaac Gabriel on 4-20-10 and not by Colleen she wasn’t invited. to the birthday party :)
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Hey, cc, how ’bout that defunding going on in your enlightened pro-abortion state? Hmm? You promised that you and your neighbors were much too educated to ever defund Abortions R Us. What gives??
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Oh, and I’ll be increasing my donation to Special Olympics this year.
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Hey, cc, how ’bout that defunding going on in your enlightened pro-abortion state?
No defunding going on here. Planned Parenthood going strong. Lil Rhody has a pro-choice legislature and pro-choice governor. Doesn’t get any better than that. So you can stop your hyperventilating.
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I wasn’t able to find any pro-life doctors in my area at the AAPLO wesbite so, I decided to call my new ob/gyn back and asked if they provide abortions or provide referrals. The receptionist said they no to both :D Ok, so then I called the find a doctor number for the health system/hospital the practice is affiliated with, posing as a woman with an unplanned pregnancy & wanting an abortion, and neither the hospital or ob/gyn practices affiliated with the hospital provide or refers for elective abortions. There ya go! :D
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CC, can you post a link? The only measures of a country’s happiness that I can find are really about prosperity.
From Forbes. The happiest countries seem to be the wealthiest and the least religious – with the exception of Costa Rica which, I assume, has a strong Catholic presence. And BTW, the Danes are not mandating the abortion of Down’s kids. However, if the anti-choice movement gets its way, all American women, who can’t get to Canada or obtain a “D&C”, will be forced to give birth to Down’s children (and any and all children they conceive). Mandatory childbirth is just as bad as the mandatory abortion policy in China. But love the Danes. Do you folks know about the heroism of King Christian during WWII vis-a-vis the Jews?
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Rachael. are you pregnant? if so how far along?
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Re Down’s syndrome. While these kids are so much easier to deal with than – say – Autistic kids, there are behavior issues, especially as the children pass puberty. There can be anger and other behavioral problems which need to be handled with sensitivity given the levels of cognition of the child. Parents and caretakers must be vigilant as these kids don’t understand the ramifications of sex which makes them vulnerable to sexual abuse. And because these kids are very sensory, they can, after puberty, be very sexual. A friend of mine worked at a group home where she spent much of her time monitoring what the adult Down’s residents were doing because they loved sex. (Nothing wrong with that but if a Down’s girl conceives a child, there are a host of issues which ensue.)
My step sister in law gave birth to a Down’s child. She loves the child dearly and because she is a professional, of some means, she was able to secure a wonderful support system for her. (Even with the support, raising the child wasn’t easy) Down’s kids who aren’t so lucky have fewer and fewer state resources available as a result of budget cuts. When my step sister in law was pregnant with her second child, she had the test done for Down’s syndrome. She said that if it had come back positive, she would have aborted. The child, however, was “normal” and soon became very protective of her Down’s sibling. The parents were concerned, from day 1, about what would happen to the Down’s child if they both died at the same time. Thus, they set up a trust fund and appointed a legal guardian via their will.
Down’s kids are great but there are so many considerations to be aware of when one gives birth to these kids. The important thing is that women now have the ability to make a choice regarding these pregnancies.
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I imagine CC will just keep cutting states out of enlightened New England as they cease to satisfy her talking points. New Hampshire – out.
I’d rather be a miserable, poor slob surrounded by imperfect people who have a legally protected right to live than someone who secures my happiness and prosperity through the murder of innocents. The Danes who think this way are poor in every way that matters.
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CC says:
August 23, 2011 at 7:24 am
The Danes, according to surveys, are the happiest people in the world. They are also the least religious. They are well educated and have a strong social safety net. Interesting….
I wouldn’t expect any less from die Herrenrasse. Seig heil, herr CC!
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poverty is a state of mind
we don’t even have the poor kid with DS born yet and CC is already concerned with them having sex and reproducing. CC don’t worry. if you and all the other rabid pro aborts get your way they won’t even make it out of the womb
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Heather,
No I’m not. I said I was “posing” as a woman with an unplanned pregnancy so I’d be more likely to get a straight answer, politics aside on whether my doctor’s office or the hospital they’re affiliated with provides/refers for abortions. Point being, I wouldn’t be comfortable having a doctor or being in an office which also provides abortions. And now I don’t have to worry about it because the phone calls confirmed they don’t :)
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dont get me wrong. for the most part i respect doctors but doctors don’t kill and if they do they aren’t worthy of that title anymore. what if your parent was in a nursing home and a doctor suffocated them with a pillow because of a poor prognosis? same thing! you can put a monkey. in a lab coat give it a degree but at the end of the day it’s still a monkey
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The Holy Father said it beautifully: “A society unable to accept its suffering members and incapable of helping to share their suffering and to bear it inwardly through compassion is a cruel and inhuman society”
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Rachael. I’ve done that too. i was often asked by my pro life group to pretend i was the abortion patient. I’d get their hours and prices etc. did you know that an abortion can cost well over 1000 bucks? it depends on how. far along you are and choice of sedation. i think the cheapest was 475$ oh how sick i felt even pretending:(
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“Mandatory childbirth is just as bad as the mandatory abortion policy in China.”
Right out of the Old Rhetoric Play Book! Everytime we mention forced abortions, a plucky abortion fan pipes in with ‘forced pregnancy’ or ‘forced childbirth.’ I could set my watch by you! Deflect! Maybe you should invent a superhero named Captain Deflecto!
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CT: The Holy Father said it beautifully: “A society unable to accept its suffering members and incapable of helping to share their suffering and to bear it inwardly through compassion is a cruel and inhuman society”
Very well said indeed.
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CC does it bother you at all that abortionists will slash a baby’s throat to make sure it’s dead? it made me super sick to type that!
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Watch the birdie! No one is working to defund Abortions R Us in the northeastern states, nope, no way.. Hit the snooze alarm, abortion fans, nothing to see here…
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ninek lol:)_
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no surprise she had ample time to answer but didn’t. getting a little warm in here? can you imagine the God awful pain of having your throat cut and the only reason was that someone thought you were better off dead!
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“CC does it bother you at all that abortionists will slash a baby’s throat to make sure it’s dead? it made me super sick to type that!”
Where do you come up with these pseudo medical histrionics regarding removal of fetuses? And Ninek, you asked, specifically, about my state. I gave you the answer. Yes, New Hampshire will not be funding Planned Parenthood because of three anti-choice men, one of whom said this:
“I am opposed to providing condoms to someone. If you want to have a party, have a party, but don’t ask me to pay for it.”
Once again, the misogyism of the anti-choice movement rears its ugly head. Many women who use Planned Parenthood for contraception and abortion are lower income women who are married and not pregnant because of “partying.” The fact that Planned Parenthood does more than provide the above mentioned services is lost on this joker. And thanks to him and his cronies, low income women will probably experience even more unwanted pregnancies. but right, women who want birth control are sluts and women who have abortions are beyond sluts. But of course if they get pregnant and have the baby, they are revered as saints.
But back to NH. While the state won’t contract with Planned Parenthood, steps are being taken so that federal monies can go directly to the organization.
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Yes, New Hampshire will not be funding Planned Parenthood because of three anti-choice men, one of whom said this:
“I am opposed to providing condoms to someone. If you want to have a party, have a party, but don’t ask me to pay for it.”
Once again, the misogyism of the anti-choice movement rears its ugly head.
But…but…I thought MEN wear condoms, CC? XD
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Good grief why does anyone have to “provide” condoms? Any high school kid knows you can buy them at the drug store.
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Misogyny. Yep. Nothing says ‘I love women’ like sucking them out of their mother’s wombs before they’re born. Oh yea.
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“CC says:
August 23, 2011 at 11:14 am
CC, can you post a link? The only measures of a country’s happiness that I can find are really about prosperity.
From Forbes. The happiest countries seem to be the wealthiest and the least religious. ”
That’s what Forbes did: a bunch of their staff members sat down and graded the countries depending on their level of wealth, natural beauty, quality of education and health care. And called it “happiness”… They didn’t even ask people living there if they are/feel happy. It’s all bout perspective – Forbes might THINK that beautiful nature or wealth must mean people are happy, but in fact – it is not so. Here’s a survey done by New Scientist that lists as the happiest countries: Nigeria, Mexico, Venesuela, El Salvador and Puerto Rico. NOT the wealthiest and not the least religious, yet people consider themselves very happy. If I had to choose I’d believe the survey that asked people if they’re happy instead o the one that made conclusions from a piece of paper by the subjective criteria that they have chosen themselves.
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Happiness survey:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3157570.stm
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Nice analysis Vita. Big like.
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Vita, here’s a different study where Denmark came out on top: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/60minutes/main3833797.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody
A different one, though Denmark was still on top:
http://www.financialjesus.com/how-to-get-rich/top-10-happiest-countries/ This, by far, makes the most sense to me:
1. Denmark
2. Switzerland
3. Austria
4. Iceland
5. Finland
6. Australia
7. Sweden
8. Canada
9. Guatemala
10. Luxembourg
Okay, the top five in the study you mentioned:
Nigeria
Mexico
Venezuela
El Salvador
Puerto Rico
I’m thinking there must be something genetic or cultural at work, because of the similarities in the last 4. This is also based on just asking the people how happy they are. There is a second methodology used, as well, and it is “subjective well being,” which includes not only happiness but how satisfied people are. That way, Nigeria went all the way down to #19.
http://thehappinessshow.com/HappiestCountries.htm
Still, I’m very surprised that the scandinavian countries, did not do better. I would have never said that the average Mexican was happier than the average Swede, Finn, or Norwegian. Or is it that the unhappy Mexicans all went north?
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HELP, Moderators – just got a notice that a post of mine here was marked as spam. It truly was not…
Gracias,
Doug
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1. Denmark
2. Switzerland
3. Austria
4. Iceland
5.Finland
6. Australia
7. Sweden
8. Canada
9. Guatemala
10. Luxembourg
This makes more sense to me. http://www.financialjesus.com/how-to-get-rich/top-10-happiest-countries/
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All set, Mr Doug-man!
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Thank you, Bobby. I do recall that having more than one link in a post “trips the system,” and I’ll try and remember that.
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“I’m thinking there must be something … cultural at work. I would have never said that the average Mexican was happier than the average Swede, Finn, or Norwegian.”
Doug, one cultural difference between Mexico and Scandinavia is the value placed on marriage and family size.
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heather (h) wrote: CC does it bother you at all that abortionists will slash a baby’s throat to make sure it’s dead? it made me super sick to type that!”
CC replied: Where do you come up with these pseudo medical histrionics regarding removal of fetuses?
Correct me if I’m wrong, Heather, but I believe she was referring to Gosnell and it was their spinal cords that were “snipped” at the neck. The “pseudo medical histrionics”(?) photographic evidence on page 118 of the Grand Jury report. Be sure to read the testimony of what Gosnell’s people called “normal”, common practice. And the rest of the report, CC, is the very definition of misogyny.
I found the text of Appendix B especially noteworthy, considering forced abortion is illegal: it says (page 269):
You have already decided that a procedure is best for you. Now you need to choose the type of pain relief. It will probably be best to pay the extra money and be more comfortable if some of the following conditions are true for you.
1. The decision to have the procedure is a difficult decision.
2. Medication is usually necessary for your menstrual cramps.
3. Your decision has been forced by your parents or partner.
4. Your family members or friends “don’t like pain.”
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Vita, excellent clarification on “happiness”. One could take a look at those who frequent Jill’s blog and see evidence of what the happiness survey shows. The most joyful (a term superior to happiness, as it does not depend on what “happens” to or around you) posters seem to be those who are most involved in helping others, whether that’s their little ones or other folks in need.
Doug, it’s interesting that you point out the results regarding the “how satisfied are you” question. Perhaps a certain amount of dissatisfaction serves as a necessary impetus to improving one’s circumstances? [FWIW I don’t translate “improve” as more $$, a flexible schedule which allows more time with the family is an improvement.] How many have gone back to school or launched out in another profession due to dissatisfaction with some aspect of their lives? As the saying goes, “If you don’t stir yourself up, you’ll settle to the bottom.”
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CC i have news for you. alot of people don’t want to pay for your fun. i don’t. my brother doesn’t. and neither does my 81 year old mom. my dad was anti abortion and worked from sun up to sun down
he died in 96 but he detested abortion so get off the backs of the tax payers and go buy your. own condoms plan B or pay for your own abortion!
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yep next time i have a party. I’d. like someone else to pay for my chips and dip beer and steaks. pop and cake
it’s. only right!
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klynn73 yes you’re right. whatever that monster cuts. pure. evolutionary
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meant evil
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yep next time i have a party. I’d. like someone else to pay for my chips and dip beer and steaks. pop and cake
You go Heather — nicely said.
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The happiness discussion reminds me of an article by Laura Schlessinger several years ago entitled “Happiness is NOT the highest virtue”. Police officers confront criminals, fire-fighters rush into burning buildings to save people, nurses and doctors spend much of their time with people suffering from sickness, soldiers sleep in dusty cots away from family… none of them do this to be happy. Rather, they do what they do out of a sense of obligation, leading to fulfillment and satisfaction in making life better for others, as opposed to so many people who hold on to a sense of entitlement to make them happy.
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thanks. Eric *bow*
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from your last post i take it you left Ohio?
Heather, sort of – still have a place there, but my wife teaches High School in Georgia and I still go around the 48 states in my work…
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Doug, it’s interesting that you point out the results regarding the “how satisfied are you” question. Perhaps a certain amount of dissatisfaction serves as a necessary impetus to improving one’s circumstances? [FWIW I don’t translate “improve” as more $$, a flexible schedule which allows more time with the family is an improvement.] How many have gone back to school or launched out in another profession due to dissatisfaction with some aspect of their lives? As the saying goes, “If you don’t stir yourself up, you’ll settle to the bottom.”
Klynn73, definitely agree that “not being satisfied” is often a real motivator. As to what satisfies us and makes us happy – there are all sorts of different things. Don’t even know how I would define “happiness” other than to be pretty complex about it. There is the emotional state, but I’d also give points for not having “low lows” in addition to the “average” emotional feeling.
Personally, I feel we do better with some elements of “struggle” in our lives, but at the same time think that if we are truly worried or fearful about the future then that goes toward unhappiness.
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“I’m thinking there must be something … cultural at work. I would have never said that the average Mexican was happier than the average Swede, Finn, or Norwegian.”
Eric: Doug, one cultural difference between Mexico and Scandinavia is the value placed on marriage and family size.
Eric, that may well factor into it. It would fit with Puerto Rico and the other Central/Latin American countries being ranked high, too. Are we “hard-wired” to want families, a spouse, the feeling of “community,” etc.? I think so, certainly, although it varies among us.
20 years ago, I had a Swiss girlfriend. Talked with her via e-mail this year, told her that I’d been married for 11 years now blah blah blah. She wrote back, saying congratulations – and that “it’s unusual now,” as if the marriage rate in Switzerland has really declined, and that the expectation, if anything, is to *not* get married. Haven’t checked the statistics, but was surprised.
However – it still strikes me that you don’t see many people wanting to get out of Scandinavia, not like you do with Mexico….
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Eric. you’re right. I’ve devoted 20+ years of my life in the nursing field. I’ve done geriatric hospice oncology and home care. i did not enter the profession for the money but i know many who did
they should not be there. i wanted people to feel better and that’s what gave me gratification. there are some nurses who have no business being there and i. wish they would get out of Dodge!!
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hey Doug i don’t. want to derail the thread but you were wrong about. cat woman or lion woman-take your pick.she thinks she looks gorgeous! that’s the look she wanted! I’m dead serious!
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Doug i think it’s. sad that we think she thinks she looks good but she’s. as happy as a clam;/ …strange indeed
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and i promise this is the last time but for Joan Rivers Janice Dickenson Heidi Floras and Jacqueline Weinstein – what were you ladies thinking? yikes!
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meant Heidi. fleiss
.if it ain’t broke don’t fix it
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On happiness: Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
Basically, the fallen world is a mournful place — and so is ones own soul. You can’t be comforted until you acknowledge there’s much to be mournful of. It’s not blessed to delusionally imagine that happiness is a sustainable demeanor. Consider its etymology and cognates: perhaps, happenstance, mayhap (even mishap!), etc. It suggests a passive role for the happy person; happiness happens. It’s not an achievement (however much a delusional person imagines the contrary.
But blessedness is consistent even with genuine mourning (as contrasted with happiness). Interesting. Those firemen are, in this sense, mournful — their demeanor embraces tragic reality and they can be blessed even if they’re not necessarily happy.
The world is also a place of joy. It defies simple characterization. The truth isn’t some median — it’s polar opposites held in one hand.
At any rate, curse our founders for changing it from “pursuit of property” to “pursuit of happiness.” What a lame populist concession. ;-)
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Rasqual, quite the lyrical post there. :)
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