Unwritten rule about unplanned pregnancy in the military: “A good soldier will have an abortion.”
No one ever said to my face that they were disappointed in me, but I could see it in the eyes of my commander, my first sergeant and my boss. They all congratulated me but I sensed I had let them down in some way….
The unspoken code is that a good soldier will have an abortion, continue the mission, and get some sympathy because she chose duty over motherhood. But for the woman who chooses motherhood over duty, well, she must have been trying to get out of deployment….
Instead of being seen as making a responsible parenting decision, you are seen as a faker, a soldier who couldn’t take the pressure and went to extreme lengths to get out. I’m sure there are some women who have….
I had let everyone around me down…. But I wasn’t going to let the little person snuggled up in my belly down.
One day, my son would be old enough to ask me questions, and I wanted to be able to tell him that I gave him the best life I possibly could. At the end of the day, my son was the only person I would have to explain myself to.
~ Writer and former soldier Bethany Saros, who became pregnant while on active military duty despite using contraception, Salon, November 13
[HT: Carol of Parenting Freedom]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
It is unfortunate that she’s endured this but for the guys, this gal has to realize how many other female soldiers HAVE bailed on them by choosing deliberately to get pregnant to avoid duty. I’ve been in the military and there are SO MANY women that leave the Chain of Command hopping like rabbits on hot coals trying to constantly fill the ranks because someone came up pregnant right before a deployment or something equally as important deliberately! Many of the male soldiers I’ve known aren’t disappointed that the woman is choosing life for her child. Most of those soldiers are fathers themselves, so don’t peg the men to be so shallow and uncaring. What they’re “looking upset” about is the fact that they now have to figure out how to replace her so they can carry on their mission. This is one very good example of why women should NOT be in combat units and on the front lines.
I walked into my second unit pregnant. I was the only female officer and the officer I was replacing had JUST come off maternity leave herself. I was 8 weeks pregnant. Yes, my Commander looked upset that I was pregnant but it was because he knew he’d lose an essential officer on his staff when it came to field missions and such because I couldn’t go on them. He had just dealt with the last female being pregnant for 9 months then doing her 135 days of post partum non-availability (for deployments and field exercises) and now he just got a new officer in and she’s 8 weeks pregnant, so to him he was right back at square one. I didn’t let that bother me and I carried on to the best of my ability with my job. I made sure my NCO could do my job in my absence without worry and that’s how we rolled.
Life happens and most men understand that. But this female soldier has to realize that there are women out there that use pregnancy as an excuse to get out of actually pulling their weight and make life much more miserable for the male soldiers because now they have to pick up her slack. I’m so very happy she chose life for her child and she should feel honor and pride for her service to our country. But don’t bash the men in uniform either. They do more than most women give them credit for.
I’m so very happy she chose life for her child and she should feel honor and pride for her service to our country. But don’t bash the men in uniform either. They do more than most women give them credit for.
I for one appreciate the sacrifice the men and women in the military make to serve our country. Thank you!
If you actually read her entire article, she talks about how her commanding officer was the one who was most compassionate when she least expected it.
So, I don’t think the article was a bashfest on military men whatsoever.
Kel, I read the article. The implied message is that abortion is expected for a woman in uniform. I wrote my comment to refute that assumption and it’s a bashfest on men by her projection of their supposed disappointment. Maybe SHE was disappointed that she got herself pregnant, but to project that disappointment onto the men that didn’t verbally admit it, is wrong. If SHE felt like she let them down, that’s HER feelings, not theirs. However, and I state this again, I’m glad she chose life for her son.
True, it’s possible she projected her own disappointment on to them.
I would beg to differ that she “got herself pregnant.” She claims to have been using contraception, and also claims she did not seek out pregnancy.
By bashing this woman and making these assumptions, perhaps you’re doing exactly what you’ve accused her of doing.
Dirtdartwife,
Thanks for your service.
I agree with your original comment. There are many things that cause people to do purposely to leave service when they realize they’re getting deployed. For my generation of HS grads pre 9-11, this wasn’t helped by the fact that many recruiters would say such bs as we’re not in war, and you’re joining the reserves so don’t worry about it. Then 9-11 happened, and the reserves have been constantly going since. Some people join the military thinking they’ll never see combat. That’s ridiculous.
But I agree with your original comment, except for the no women in combat part. I think they should be allowed there fully as men.
I’m so grateful to all of our soldiers defending our freedom, but this is one of the reasons why I don’t think women should be in combat. Sorry, Dirtdartwife. There is always that chance of a woman getting pregnant. I think having women in the military changes the whole dynamic. Not only the possibility of conceiving, but what about putting men and/or women in the position of temptation, especially in such weakened emotional and physical states that can war-time can bring? I wonder how many infidelities have taken place due to women now serving in our military? I would really like to know if there is a statistic. I’d imagine that infidelities have increased enormously since women have even joined the work-force in general. Maybe I’m wrong?
Doe, there’s a facebook page you can search for, called End the Ban on Women In Combat Arms. That page owner works dilligently for all kinds of stats related to women in the uniform. I’d suggest asking her if she has a stat to answer your question. :)
Keeping the baby is a given for me. However, there is a larger issue here regarding the numbers of women who have gotten pregnant (intentionally or not) and left their active-duty units for motherhood. These departures from highly trained, highly skilled, tightly knit teams do compromise the safety of the men and women left behind at a time when comparable replacements are hard to come by. I’ve heard this now from a number of returning vets.
When safety and morale are compromised enough, then I suppose the military will reevaluate the role of women in front line units. Until then, such departures may well contribute to an antipathy towards the babies and pregnancy.
I know this may sound dumb, but what will women in combat do when they have their periods? You can’t run to the bathroom to check for “leaks” while on the front line.
I also wonder what women astronauts do at “that time of the month.” Most of them are of child-bearing age.
This thread to me seems to illustrate why feminism and pro-life can’t seem to go together. I am happy this woman chose to keep her baby but why do we all have to reduce it to “women aren’t capable of being in combat” “what about when they get their period?” and “oh, the poor men that will be tempted to cheat because a woman is serving beside them”? I say we honor and respect the men AND women that choose to lay their lives on the line for our freedom – having a period isn’t debilitating (especially to a TRAINED SOLIDER, right?) and any man that would cheat because a woman is in his unit would probably cheat with a local when he was on deployment anyway.
I feel like I’ve asked this in multiple threads but have never gotten an answer… why does the pro-life crowd only seem to be pro-family when it comes to their narrow description of what is acceptable? If someone has an unplanned pregnancy or baby our of wedlock then I am going to choose to celebrate the new life – not judge them for having sex before marriage or not marrying the babydaddy. If a woman wants to have a baby and work or, God forbid, stay enlisted – why are we criticizing and making thinly veiled remarks about their worthiness as a parent, worker, or soldier? I understand you’re going to all say “well, she chose life so that’s great but this still isn’t the PREFERRED situation for a child” but I think even these sly judgements are what makes it harder for women to carry a pregnancy to term unless it’s under the “desired circumstances”.
also, Doe, I have to say your argument was pretty infuriating to me. Good men won’t cheat no matter who they’re working with and if your man can’t work alongside a woman without wanting to stick it in then it’s HIS problem, not hers.
why does the pro-life crowd only seem to be pro-family when it comes to their narrow description of what is acceptable? If someone has an unplanned pregnancy or baby our of wedlock then I am going to choose to celebrate the new life – not judge them for having sex before marriage or not marrying the babydaddy. If a woman wants to have a baby and work or, God forbid, stay enlisted – why are we criticizing and making thinly veiled remarks about their worthiness as a parent, worker, or soldier?
It’s not what’s “acceptable” it’s what is considered healthiest for the child. I was raised by a divorced mom. Was it the ideal situation? No. Would she have chosen it on her own for herself and me? No. I don’t care if a woman wants to work or stay home or what have you. That’s her choice, and working can be a necessity, especially if you’re a single parent. But a woman who chooses to continue to bring children into the world with multiple “babydaddies” or the same “babydaddy” who comes and goes as he pleases… honestly, is this what you believe is best for that child or for the stability of that household? Only if the situation is abusive would I say it’s best there not be a man in the house. Marriage is the most stable unit, both psychologically and financially. Don’t just take it from me – I have friends who teach in the public schools. And especially among minority population, broken homes are the norm, and it ends up hurting the children more than anyone else.
I understand you’re going to all say “well, she chose life so that’s great but this still isn’t the PREFERRED situation for a child” but I think even these sly judgements are what makes it harder for women to carry a pregnancy to term unless it’s under the “desired circumstances”.
Of course it’s not the “preferred situation” for a child. That’s not a judgment. Marriage is, as I said, the most stable environment all around (provided there are no extenuating circumstances such as abuse). If people choose not to marry, that’s their prerogative, but repeating destructive patterns doesn’t help anyone. I’ve worked with women experiencing unplanned pregnancies. A lot of them. We’ve given baby showers to these women and rejoiced with them over their beautiful children. I’ve also had friends whom I have supported throughout their unplanned pregnancies.
Perhaps you need to rethink what you believe the pro-life crowd to be.
But to me it just feels so snarky and judgmental. The reason a lot of women probably have abortions is so that they don’t need to face the stigma of an unplanned pregnancy. I know that to their face you are saying “congratulations!” but believe me, they hear the remarks about it not being the “preferred situation” for a child under your breath. If you celebrate life and pregnancy then let’s celebrate it in all it’s forms – not all pregnancies are planned and even the unplanned ones can bring joy to a couple or a mother, right? The attitude seems to go against my idea of pro-life, I guess.
Elizabeth,
Calm down. You should be infuriated at the men or women cheating on their spouses, not at me personally, or at least that’s how your post appears. Be angry at evil and not what I raise to be a valid point. Why is my question about the dynamic of men and women in uniform working closely together make you infuriated? Yes, good men and good women with good moral values will hopefully not put themselves in an occasion to sin, whether in the military or in a civilian position. But, let’s be realistic. We live in world full of sinners, myself, of course, included. I am not saying women cannot do what men can. I just do not believe a woman, by her nature, is designed to be a warrior. Yes, I know all about Joan of Arc and the other great saints in history. There are exceptions, of course. And I’m glad this woman chose motherhood over her career in this instance.
Oh, and Duck, thank you for the website recommendation. I will check it out.
Women should not be soldiers – that should be obvious.
Also, in response to Elizabeth, I’m happy for any baby that is born rather than aborted, but that doesn’t mean we should never discuss the proper moral conditions which best suit procreation and upbringing of children - namely marriage.
Doe, Your welcome. I’m always willing to point out useful information.
Well this thread just proves it to me then. You can’t be feminist and pro-life at the same time.
Doe, my problem is with you insinuating that “good men and women” wouldn’t cheat if women weren’t allowed into combat. Good men and women won’t cheat regardless of the circumstances, especially if the relationship is solid. You are placing the blame on the women who entered into the military TO PROTECT OUR RIGHTS for why men cheat instead of the actual MAN that did the cheating. If a woman wants to lay down her life to protect my country then I think she deserves respect, honor, and gratitude – not any of the questions in this thread.
Elizabeth, I really don’t think there is anyone here saying that women should be stuck in the kitchen. But, like it or not, there are physical differences between men and women, and those physical differences could prove to be a problem in a combat setting. I know plenty of people, pro-life and pro-choice, male and female, who agree on this point.
As far as the issue of infidelity is concerned: cheating is EVERYWHERE in the military. It’s a huge problem for military marriages. The article below explains why. “Good” men and women will do a lot of things when the temptation is there, or they are stressed, or they think no one will know. That only adds to the problems someone in a war zone is already facing.
http://www.examiner.com/infidelity-in-portland/memorial-day-special-report-military-marriages-and-infidelity
Finally, feminism means different things to different people, and the idea that you must hate women if you don’t support the “right” to kill their children in utero is false, and frankly, ridiculous.
No, Elizabeth. It is possible to be a feminist and be pro-life. Just not the kind of feminism that is most commonly thought of.
I consider myself to be a feminist and I’m outraged at what modern “feminism” has done to women.
Modern “feminists” saw that women and their traditional roles were disrespected and belittled and that men and their traditional roles were honored. So, the way they went about solving this issue is by buying in to this idea that the traditional male roles actually were better and that the only way to raise the status of women was to have them take on those roles. The problem is, traditionally female roles are still disrespected. That’s why it admirable for a woman to be a doctor but funny for a man to be a nurse, a sign of the empowerment of women for them to be CEOs but a source of teasing if the man stays home with the kids. Modern feminists will say that they’re trying to fix the problem so that any gender can do any job without criticism, but they’ve already failed. They failed when they bought the lie that women’s work is less than man’s work. They failed when they attempted to fix the fact that women were disrespected by making them what men traditionally were.
What should have happened is feminists should have focused on raising the status of the work women traditionally do. Housework and child rearing is still considered less important. I know many feminists who criticize women who choose to stay at home. They’re still buying into the lie that housework is demeaning to women.
I’m all for equality. I just don’t think equality means sameness. I’m for equal respect for the different roles women and men were wired to fill. Like someone before me said, there are exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, men and women are wired differently. It’s time we celebrate those differences and stop trying to make us all the same.
No, Elizabeth, you are assuming I am placing the blame on women. My stance is simple, I believe that women should not be in combat and I have given you a couple reason why. That does not mean I do not respect them for their service. You think that if you feel women should not serve in combat that automatically means you don’t respect those that do. Far from it. I respect them immensely. I feel you have read into much of my comments and have some misplaced anger on the issue. That being said, God Bless you and our men and women in the armed forces.
I know this may sound dumb, but what will women in combat do when they have their periods? You can’t run to the bathroom to check for “leaks” while on the front line.
Hey phillymiss – I imagine they manage just fine. I know of a few women in time-consuming fields (ie journalists, women in the military) as well as other women in “normal” jobs who use menstrual cups, which can go longer than disposable products without needing to be ‘changed,’ and which can also safely be put in before you actually have your period – so you can prepare, and not be taken by surprise. Really, all you need is twice-daily access to clean water (and not even the water, if you are really in inconvenient circumstances, just twice-daily access to…taking your pants down. My cup has revolutionized camping alone). At the risk of oversharing, I have to say it is a godsend even in my non-life-threatening job. Before I switched, I got caught by surprise once just as I entered a 90-minute first act of a show I was mixing live sound for – couldn’t leave, had to just stand there – never again. I was thanking my lucky stars that stagehands wear black, that’s for sure. Now it’s all very…civilized, is all I can think. There is nothing that leaks, nothing to throw away, nothing to discreetly carry to the bathroom. On the rare occasion when I find myself unprepared and have to borrow disposable supplies from a co-worker, it all feels vaguely antiquated and archaic. You might as well ask me to wear a corset, or go lay on the fainting couch after I spend too long reading! ;)
As for the cheating discussion, I know lots of people who end up cheating when they go on tour for a year, which is fairly common in my industry. Yeah, maybe if no female carpenters, electricians, sound operators, dressers, or cast members were allowed in shows, people wouldn’t cheat. Maybe if no men were allowed to work in or on shows, no one would cheat. But either way, that’s an awfully big sacrifice to make just to cater to the weaknesses of some people.
Sarah, I love your 11:51 post. :)
Elizabeth – most people I know (though certainly not ALL) who have been “snarky and judgmental” to women experiencing unplanned pregnancies are their boyfriends and family members who are pro-choice.
I know that to their face you are saying “congratulations!” but believe me, they hear the remarks about it not being the “preferred situation” for a child under your breath.
Oh, you “know” this, do you? You don’t “know” ANY of us, Elizabeth. You might want to ask around here, on these pro-life boards, how many pro-lifers have themselves experienced unplanned pregnancies. Go ahead.
I begged – BEGGED – one of my closest friends NOT to marry her controlling boyfriend who got her pregnant. My friends and I told her there were other ways and that she could and should raise the baby herself and that we would help her.
She married him anyway, and her life isn’t anywhere close to the life she should be enjoying. The man she married has sucked every ounce of joy from her life. So believe what you want about pro-lifers. It won’t change the fact that we are pro-women and pro-life.
Alexandra,
I also wondered if any enlisted women take the shots that stop their cycle? I dunno.
Sarah,
I loved your post too!!
Lest we forget modern feminists are also all about abortion and getting ahead in this life by killing our own. And if you do not agree…well…GASP..you are not a feminist!! You are not one of us!! Even though the early feminists were prolife. Modern feminists do not speak for me.
Kel, I wasn’t bashing this woman. How about the simple fact that I call BS on her assumptions of what she projected onto her chain of command and fellow soldiers? What the heck are women supposed to think when they get pregnant (yep, she got herself pregnant even though she contracepted… sex is funny like that, eh?) and they throw an entire unit into a tizzy because they’re expecting her to do her job and now she can’t? Women want to be treated equally to men but then suddenly cry foul when *gasp* they want to be a woman instead and they wonder why the men are kind of pissed? Wow… how shallow. She needs to make up her mind… be a woman and accept what your body will do naturally or be a man. You can’t be both.
Guess what Kel… guys get similar looks of disgust when they get hurt right before a major exercise or deployment too. And I’m betting she’s tossed a few “malingerer” comments towards a couple soldiers when she felt they got hurt to get out of something.
And yes Carla, MANY women will purposely contracept (at very unhealthy high levels- think depo shot AND BC pills) in order to try to control their monthly cycle or stop it all together. I’ve known many of them personally that did this only to find out three years later that they can no longer get pregnant. When I was in the military and on deployments or long field exercises, I would just deal with my cycle. The stress of the event would slow my cycle down considerably anyway, so I was lucky. But others would use the Diva Cup too (like another poster mentioned). Women figure it out and deal with it- in healthy ways or not.
How about the simple fact that I call BS on her assumptions of what she projected onto her chain of command and fellow soldiers?
You can call BS on it, but that doesn’t necessarily make it true. This woman did mention those whom she felt were supportive of her as well.
What the heck are women supposed to think when they get pregnant (yep, she got herself pregnant even though she contracepted… sex is funny like that, eh?) and they throw an entire unit into a tizzy because they’re expecting her to do her job and now she can’t?
Don’t you think there’s a bit of a double standard here? She didn’t get pregnant all by herself. A fellow soldier had sex with her and they are both responsible, but she is the one who carries the child by virtue of being female. I really resent this phrase “she got herself pregnant.” It’s really demeaning and derogatory and doesn’t sound the slightest bit pro-life. It also places all the blame on the woman, which, I think, is exactly the kind of attitude this soldier claims she encountered in the military.
Frankly, I don’t personally believe women should ever be on the front lines. Doing other military jobs, yes, but not on the front lines. Women ARE equal to men, but different, as was stated by Sarah earlier. We should serve different roles that should be equally valued. I really don’t think I could say it any better than Sarah did.
Alexandra, thank you for saying what I was trying to say about cheating. It is not fair to keep women out of service because someone is afraid their man will cheat – are we supposed to segregate all women and men from working together because of the temptation?
As for everything else, I completely agree with you, Sarah, that being a mom or a homemaker is not valued enough by many people – and yes, that’s because it is a historically feminine job. Raising a family is an extremely important job and there should be workplace and government policies in effect to facilitate that, as well as more respect given to stay at home parents of both genders. I would like to be a stay at home mom myself, to be honest. I will just NEVER agree that men and women shouldn’t be encouraged or have the right to do the same jobs. If a dad wants to stay home and raise the children instead of the mother then high five to him. If a woman wants to go to work, enlist to protect our country, or do whatever else she wants then good for her. To me that’s what feminism means.
There is just such an air of underlying misogyny is so many of these comments and I know you’re all going to deny deny deny but I wish you’d do some research and really think about what you’re saying. I’m not trying to shame any of you guys, I’m just trying to bring a different perspective.
I bet lots of women in the military do that, Carla – I know lots of women NOT in the military who do that! Seems a bit strange to me, personally…I guess I just don’t see what is so bad about getting your period, or at least what is worse than dealing with some freaky side effects from years of hormone injections. Oh well.
I agree with that, Alexandra. There are women that loathe their cycle and would do anything to never have it again.
Always nice to talk to you, btw. :)
I always love talking to you, Carla!
My older sister was in the Navy as an officer, became involved with a non-officer, conceived, and was forced to resign her commission. The explanation: “We don’t f%$k the help.
Her daughter is an amazing 24 year old woman.
Disputation: Whether feminism is compatible with a pro-life belief.
Before anyone can discuss this, you will have to define your terms, both “feminism” and “pro-life.” If you cannot do this such that all debaters agree on the definitions, you cannot even discuss thie question.
Disputation: Whether feminism is compatible with a pro-life belief.
Elizabeth seems to think it is not possible to be both feminist and pro-life. I assume she is not pro-life herself, otherwise her own beliefs would contradict her position.
If 99% of commenters here are anti-feminist or simply not feminist, would that necessarily mean feminism and pro-life positions are therefore not compatible? It might strongly suggest the possibility, but would not prove it.
Fortunately for me, however, I detest feminism and all its pomps and works. I especially detest how (many) feminists impose their disgusting world view all oer the place. Thus, if I say that babies are normally better off being born into a family based on life-long marriage, or that women ought not be soldiers, I am therefore labelled a misogynist. I “hate” women. This is not true, however, and shows just how disgusting the feminist world view is.
In a minute, someone will ask the question “do you believe that men and women are equal?” to which I will certainly reply “yes” since they are equal in dignity and have equal basic rights. Then one feminist will say “well, you’re a feminist then.” Another feminist will disagree, saying that I must also believe X and Y and Z before I can be considered a feminist. This shows that the word “feminist” needs a formal definition which the commenters here can agree on.
Personally, I believe in the equality of men and women regarding their basic human dignity, but I do not believe in feminism and think it’s a revolting world view, in the main. I would suggest that feminism itself is largely responsible for the current abortion rate.
Thank you Kate & Louise for stating so eloquently what my thoughts are. I never meant to make this a heated debate- was just expressing an opinion.
Men and women – equal in dignity and value, but very different.
Louise: Personally, I believe in the equality of men and women regarding their basic human dignity, but I do not believe in feminism and think it’s a revolting world view, in the main.
In the main, I think that to be a feminist one must feel that things really are not as equal as they should be between men and women. Given the “paternalistic” influence in many countries and cultures, that many people feel that way should be no surprise.
To Dirtdartwife: First of all how are you going to say not all men think like that(upset because a women is pregnant) and we shouldn’t group them all together but it’s okay for you to group ALL women who are pregnant with the ones who purposely got pregnant to get out….hmmmm..doesn’t make sense. So it’s okay to group all women together and look upon us instead of saying wow…these women can be pregnant (get fat, sick, grumpy, wants to cry at everything) and still get up every morning and work and preform the mission but guys who just have to get up and maybe not even take care of their children as well as women complain because they have to take on a little extra work… I have been in the military and I can watch lame men jump ranks and not take on the responsibility, or men who want to get out so they complain about every ache and pain. There are those kind of people either man or woman. Women should and will always be involved in the military and just because they get pregnant doesn’t mean they have failed, it’s no different then when someone is on a profile and can’t perform or when someone has surgery to repair and they on doctors orders to be bedrest…I can’t believe you as a female who was pregnant think like a man who is ignorant. But then again there are those people who over time for some reason has not grown into a better person and have to think like everyone else.
Pro-life is assuming that because you believe a cluster of cells is life means that everyone should be forced to live by your rules. If half the nation becomes pro tree life or vegan because of that fact alone? No. You don’t like abortion? Don’t get one. No one is forcing you to. It’s an option for women who want to prevent a one night mistake from ruining their lives.
Ah, that stupid argument never gets old. Some fun variations:
* Don’t like rape? Don’t rape anyone.
* Don’t like theft? Don’t steal.
* Don’t like murder? Don’t kill anyone.
* Don’t like drunk drivers? Don’t drive drunk.
We don’t just “believe” a “cluster of cells” is human “life”. It’s scientific fact. And abortion is the greatest human rights violation of our time.