Personhood: Do abortion proponents only have themselves to blame?
… [T]he campaign to define personhood is a strategy of desperation. America’s cultural and political elite has spent years promoting abortion by means foul and fair.
Abortion advocates value sexual freedom more than the life which may result from sexual freedom. For many of them, life is cheap and disposable, with an “unwanted” baby but an inconvenience to be swept away. There is no other “person” or interest to acknowledge, let alone respect….
Still, whether a baby is a separate “person” or not, abortion advocates maintain that women have the right to eliminate it at will. That would be the case if the fetus was simply a growth. That also would be the case if the baby showed up uninvited. However, except in the case of rape, pregnancy is preceded by an important voluntary act: sex.
Such [personhood] measures are imperfect. However, the judicial takeover of the issue has left pro-life advocates with no choice.
~ Doug Bandow, Forbes, October 31
[Photo via Secular ProLife]
yep. people with abortion fetishes will just keep doing what they have done all along. dehumanize the unborn baby. it makes them easier to kill. hitler to the jews…”they are useless parasites” gloria steinem on abortion “a woman has a right to have a parasite removed from her body.”
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does anyone know how long after an abortion breast cancer can rear its ugly head? my girlfriend melissa had an abortion like 3 and a half years ago and just found a lump in her breast. it hasnt been confirmed to be cancer. she says its rather large and down by the nipple.
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No one seems to address the question I’ve repeatedly brought up. Aside from lecturing, what can we do on a practical level to encourage abstinence from partnered sex?
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Doug makes some good points, but I’m not sure Personhood is a strategy of desperation, but simply trying to make reality the law once again. As he said, the fetus is not a “growth” but an individual; a person. Same for the embryo. Same for the zygote. Just different size people.
It seems like desperation to some because we’ve had decades of denying the truth and ignoring reality, so now to assert reality again seems crazy to those who are used to lies and delusion.
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“Abortion is not a choice to be made. Rather, it is flight from responsibility for a choice previously made.”
Well said.
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“However, while a woman should control her own body, a baby is far more than just “a woman’s body.” Birth marks the moment of physical separation, but the baby’s individual identity and unique moral worth are established long before. Nor does “viability” have much significance in principle. The baby’s life is distinct when gestating within the womb.”
Love it.
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Wow. I had a couple issues with his wording at times, but overall a great article. I am surprised a mainstream publication like Forbes published this on the website.
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Adair, I believe Steve Forbes, one of Malcolm Forbes’ sons, is prolife. He is a Princeton alum and he protested when Peter Singer was given a professorship there.
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Ahh, thanks for the info Phillymiss. Good for Steve Forbes! I am glad the pro-life message is able to get to a wider audience.
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As someone who doesn’t support a personhood focus who knows a lot of people pushing personhood, I never get the sense of desperation. If it was anything, it’s frustration (in my mind misplaced) that abortion hasn’t been gotten rid of faster. Abortion isn’t a sporting event where the clock runs out, it’s a perpetual trench warfare battle, and I don’t think any pro-lifer is desperate, rather focused and cognizant of how many lives are lost every day. Desperation is the last trick of the almost defeated hoping for luck.
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heather says:
November 1, 2011 at 8:08 am
does anyone know how long after an abortion breast cancer can rear its ugly head? my girlfriend melissa had an abortion like 3 and a half years ago and just found a lump in her breast. it hasnt been confirmed to be cancer. she says its rather large and down by the nipple.
heather, from what information I can find, it seems breast cancer shows up “later in life” in women who have had an abortion/abortions. Even if a woman has an abortion in her 20’s, the cancer would not necessarily show up until she is in her late forties/early fifties.
That’s all I could find about the “timeline”. Hope that helps.
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“Personhood initiatives” are probably the least viable of all the current threats to abortion rights. They’re facially silly, even to most people who would otherwise be sympathetic to the cause out of some limited sense of empathy for the “unborn” (akin to the same limited sense of empathy that would lead most people to support certain laws forbidding animal cruelty but few to support state recognition of animal “rights”), they’re legally stillborn because their obvious purpose is to legislatively supplant proper judicial authority and courts, regardless of the political dispositions of the individual judges, do not like to have that authority challenged, and they’re historically unprecedented, so they don’t culturally or socially resonate with anyone who does not already stridently oppose all forms of abortion.
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This was essentially my point to my (pro-choice) co-host on The Pro-Talk Podcast. The pro-choice movement has not been very collaborative in general, but especially regarding legislation. People won’t give up–they’ll try new things, including Personhood measures!
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joan,
Keep watching.
This is only the beginning.
We win.
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26 will incite thousands of rapes in mississippi. knowing that the women they rape will be forced to carry their satan seed, rapist will have a feild day knowing the results of their crime will be fed and clothed by medicaid, ebt and welfare. one day these rapist children will holler” where is my daddy”. the answer PARCHMAN. SHOULD YOUR DAUGHTER, WIFE OR GRANDAUGHTER OR NEICE BE FORCED TO CARRY HER RAPIST BABY. I SAY NO.
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Again, is there any realistic and reasonable way to encourage females to reject heterosexual relationships?
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26 will incite thousands of rapes in mississippi. knowing that the women they rape will be forced to carry their satan seed, rapist will have a feild day knowing the results of their crime will be fed and clothed by medicaid, ebt and welfare. one day these rapist children will holler” where is my daddy”. the answer PARCHMAN. SHOULD YOUR DAUGHTER, WIFE OR GRANDAUGHTER OR NEICE BE FORCED TO CARRY HER RAPIST BABY. I SAY NO.
LOL. Right. I’ve been raped. A child was definitely NOT what his ultimate goal was.
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“joan,
Keep watching. This is only the beginning.We win”
LOL. Is that why there are numerous court injunctions on anti-choice legislation. You might be “winning” in the poor, uneducated, and Christian (funny how these go together) states but you certainly aren’t winning in other areas such as my lovely pro-choice state founded on freedom from the priests and ministers.
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ya no xalisae, Those rapists were reelly tryyng to start families with us but we whove ben raped not educamated enuff to no that. so glad we no what is gonna happen now in missippee. now I not stoopid no more. i no understand y they don’t just lok up the rapists but Anita no better then me.
I think Anita nother drink if I’m going to keep reading here tonight. LOL
Denise, if you don’t mind sharing, what mental illness have your doctors diagnosed you with?
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CC,
You and Joan keep watching. I’ll pop the popcorn.
It is called the domino effect. More and more states will be defunding PP, more and more states will embrace the truth that life begins at conception and will continue to do whatever it takes to fight for their lives. Including fighting “numerous court injunctions.” OF COURSE the proaborts will fight us every inch of the way to protect their precious cash cow called ABORTION!! We expect that for goodness sakes. They fight 24 hour waiting, ultrasound legislation, women’s right to know……..they fight and lose. Keep it up!!!
I have no doubt your state may remain a bastion of liberals such as yourself promoting one choice. Child killing. You will be so proud I’m sure. Abortion will be illegal and the fear mongering and wringing of hands will continue by the proaborts!
But…but…but…women will die in the streets. But…wire hangers. But…back alley abortionists. But…women’s reproductive health.
You will be just a tad out of the mainstream when the nation grants rights to preborn living human beings.(and rightfully so)
And I will still be here for you.
Offering my condolences. I know Joan. I know CC. I know. It’s hard to comprehend that babies have a right to live and we have no right to kill them at any time after conception. I know.
I will walk you through the grieving process and one day you will come to find acceptance. Really. You will.
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Denise, “train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart”. Getting the ‘everything but abstinence’ sex-education out of school and the public at large and replacing it with responsible fertility and risk education such as the ABC approach, proven to lower not only AIDs and STDs but out of wedlock births, unwanted pregnancies, and divorces, into the hands of your youngsters in the best public way to reduce irresponsible sexual behavior. Parents teaching their children good morals, respectability of the family/elders (as opposed to peers), and keeping them away from ‘education’ that harms them is, ultimately, the greatest good. Following those two approaches up with early marriages, social stigma against divorce and extra-marrital sex, and social acceptance of children rounds out a wonderful picture.
You said to me in a previous thread that you like looking at what works. Well, for hundred of years, that worked. Simply expecting kids (and unmarried adults) not to have sex, and informing them of that expectation, backed by societal stigma of those who dismissed societies morals, seeing young adults ready for marriage properly married, and accepting children as gifts and the life-blood of society resulted/results in low numbers of out of wedlock births, low numbers of single mothers, low numbers of abortion, and low numbers of STDs and the mental ills that go along with casual sex. There is nothing new under the sun, look at what worked, (or what is working today in other areas) and mimic it if you want its outcomes.
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thanks pamela. yes it helps. i ran a few things through my search engine and couldnt find much. i am indeed hoping it isnt cancer. i will keep you posted:) i know many woman who had their abortions 13 14 15 years ago and none have breast cancer.
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For Praxedes: “Schizotypal personality disorder with obsessive and compulsive features” was one diagnosis and “Schizotypal personality disorder with impulse control disorder” was another diagnosis.
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Again, I need to add that, although I am handicapped, I have never had an abortion. When people asked during my teen years, “Is she all right?” and pointed to their heads, my mother would tell, “Of course, if she were more like other girls, she might get a boyfriend and get pregnant.” All that time alone in my room insulated me from pregnancy.
In the classic “Splendor in the Grass,” the bad girl has “one of those awful operations” and the good girl spends a couple of years in a mental hospital. Life is full of trade-offs. Ideally, one might want a girl to negotiate the change from childhood to adulthood with neither a disastrous pregnancy nor a mental illness but in the real world it may not be reasonable to expect.
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Jespren says:
November 1, 2011 at 8:40 pm
Denise, “train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart”. Getting the ‘everything but abstinence’ sex-education out of school and the public at large and replacing it with responsible fertility and risk education such as the ABC approach, proven to lower not only AIDs and STDs but out of wedlock births, unwanted pregnancies, and divorces, into the hands of your youngsters in the best public way to reduce irresponsible sexual behavior. Parents teaching their children good morals, respectability of the family/elders (as opposed to peers), and keeping them away from ‘education’ that harms them is, ultimately, the greatest good. Following those two approaches up with early marriages, social stigma against divorce and extra-marrital sex, and social acceptance of children rounds out a wonderful picture.You said to me in a previous thread that you like looking at what works. Well, for hundred of years, that worked. Simply expecting kids (and unmarried adults) not to have sex, and informing them of that expectation, backed by societal stigma of those who dismissed societies morals, seeing young adults ready for marriage properly married, and accepting children as gifts and the life-blood of society resulted/results in low numbers of out of wedlock births, low numbers of single mothers, low numbers of abortion, and low numbers of STDs and the mental ills that go along with casual sex. There is nothing new under the sun, look at what worked, (or what is working today in other areas) and mimic it if you want its outcomes.
(Denise) I’ve written in favor of encouraging young marriages. It is possible that by making college so economically necessary, we have inadvertently produced a society in which young marriage is uncommon, leading to rampant pregnancies outside marriage. Past eras also had things like chaperoned dating so that young people were less likely to find themselves alone together. A teen or young adult male and female together with no one else around are likely to lead to the female becoming pregnant. Thus, this is something we must work to make less common.
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You know, the last time I heard the term “domino theory,” it was in a history class where we were learning about the Cold War. Back then, according to the domino theory, if one state in a region fell to Communism, they all would. Funny thing, though, they didn’t.
Domino theories are used to inspire either fear or hope, and neither basis makes them any more likely to come to fruition.
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Hi Enigma,
How’s this?
PP is going down like dominoes.
There is no hope in abortion.
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In our life time, Carla.
Going down. Falling down.
Ashes. Ashes. PP falls down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrsT0IxFkwU
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True that.
AND THEY ALL FALL DOWN!!!
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I just received the 40 Days for Life update
It seems the PP in Syracuse, NY will not even do a PREGNANCY TEST unless the woman is seeking an abortion!!!
All about “choice” eh??
CHOICE=ABORTION
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Hey Carla,
They might still even do an abortion if it shows up negative, too, eh? *snicker*
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enigma…do you know what sort of clandestine measures have been taken consistently throughout this nation’s history (and other nations) in order to prevent such a domino theory from being realized? It’s not as if we just sat upon our hands and this just happens to be how it all worked out…
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I urge you guys to call the Syracuse Planned Parenthood at 1-866-600-6886 to confirm that for yourselves. They told me much differently.
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xalisae,
Absolutely!!!
Hi Elisabeth,
I don’t trust PP. They lie. I trust those that pray against the killing and those that went to PP thinking they would get “help.” PP only offers help to abort.
SYRACUSE, NEW YORK
——————————————————-
The young woman walked out of Planned Parenthood in
tears. She just wanted to know if she was pregnant —
but Planned Parenthood wanted to steer her towards
abortion. “We offered her support and assisted her
to the pregnancy care center next door,” said Jeanie,
a 40 Days for Life leader in Syracuse.
It was not an isolated situation.
“One couple we offered assistance to told us as they
were leaving that Planned Parenthood would not even
give them a pregnancy test if they were not planning
to have an abortion,” she said, “and the couple said
they had insurance.”
Volunteers also spoke to a mother and daughter on the
sidewalk outside. “The daughter was pregnant and angry
at Planned Parenthood for not being willing to provide
any pregnancy care whatsoever if she didn’t plan on
aborting the baby,” Jeanie said.
She simply needed help filling out insurance forms.
They were directed instead to the pro-life pregnancy
care center to get the assistance they needed.
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Sorry, but I try to get all my news from unbiased sources. You don’t trust PP – I don’t trust 40 Days for Life. When I have a question about something I go straight to the source myself so I called that Planned Parenthood and asked and they do pregnancy testing despite what the woman decides to do about her pregnancy.
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Hey me too!!
Which is why I don’t call PP and expect honesty. Since they are in the business of killing babies and harming women I hardly consider them “unbiased.” Hilarious that you tell me you want an unbiased source and then you call Planned Parenthood. LOL
It might make more sense to pretend you are pregnant, go in and ask for a pregnancy test. See what they say.
You can hardly compare the nation’s largest abortion business to individuals quietly praying outside of abortions mills.
Yeah. 40 Days for Life. Praying for the end of abortion. Steer clear of them, Elizabeth.
PS I once called the mill where I had my abortion.(They told me it was “just a bunch of cells” at 10 weeks along.) I told them I was 12 weeks along and asked if it was a baby yet. She told me to google it. I told her I didn’t have a computer. She told me to go to the library and then she hung up.
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Yes and our own PP here tried to get an underage girl in for an abortion – even though the girl and her mother wanted to have an ultrasound to see how far the pregnancy was along. The mother called to make the appointment, and explained what she wanted, AND told them the same when they went in for the appointment too.
while there, PP tried to trick the women into allowing the girl to have an abortion, and gave her papers to sign which were permission to have the abortion. Needless to say, they both left as the mom of the grandchild said ‘not to my grand baby!’ and they came right over to us. They were upset, for sure.
I never put anything past PP anymore. I’ve seen too much with my own eyes – they even denied a homeless person a band-aid and something to clean an old cut (not currently bleeding). All while stating they were a health center.
Professional and unbiased? not. Not by a long-shot.
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