Abortion vs immigration: can catholics disagree?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYb_FVBZeZc&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]It’s a very interesting conundrum for the hierarchy in America: Catholic candidates unabashedly saying the bishops are flat out wrong on policy statements, those same candidates getting endorsed by catholic organizations that use the name ‘catholic’, and catholic voters lining up behind those candidates and those organizations with their money and their votes.
~ Michael Voris decribing the conflict that ensues when Catholic candidates, such as Rick Santorum, openly disagree with policy statements made by the Catholic bishops over matters that are not intrinsically evil, Real Catholic TV, January 12
Jan.16, 2012 6:00 am |
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
It’s weird. I’m a protestant because I disagree with the Catholic Church on theological issues, even though I support most of its social teachings. And yet, there are so many people who persist in calling themselves “Catholic” despite disagreeing with BOTH the theology and social teaching of the church. Hard to believe that some can protest so much against the church and still deny with a straight face that they’re a protest-ant.
Yes Catholics can disagree with Bishops on issues that are not intrinsic evils. Mr. Voris is on point when he makes the distinction between the issues of immigration and abortion. There are fewer core issues that are moral intrinisic evils according to the Church. Other social issues are left for each Catholics to use their conscience, with the guidance and formation of the Bishops.
I would disagree with Mr. Voris that Bishops stance on immigration is diametrically opposed to Mr. Santorum’s. The Bishops would not support immigrants efforts to break the law in every scenario. The Bishops would require immigrants who break the law to have profound reasons of justice in order to break the law. The Church is pro-private property but in extreme circumstances the Church recognizes that “private” goods should be considered common if the situation warrants it. We should not be so attached to material things as to refrain from acting virtuously.
With the above said, Mr. Voris, himself, does not represent the views of all Catholics. Does Mr. Voris have any ties to Mr. Santorum?
Yesterday I got a chane to watch the Mike Huckabee candidate forum. Wow…. Mike Huckabee is certainly a gentleman.
After listening to all of the candidates present I was quite impresssed with the economic plans of Santorum, Perry, and Gingrich.
I have to say Mr. Romney’s comments on revitalizing the economy were not as impressive or as detailed as the other candidates. I am now seriously wondering where all this pro-Romeny rhetoric is coming from. Aside from scrapping a few of the programs begun by Obama there doesn’t seem to be a clear plan of attack or growth. For being a business leader, I was not impressed. Perhaps it is in his campaign literature, but he needs to articulate it.
Mr. Santorum’s plan seems to be well thought out plan. His idea to revitalize the manufacturing sector in the US seems to me what is exactly needed. It cuts across many issues desire by many Americans and conservatives in particular. It brings a vast number of jobs, back to American shores, creating both blue and WHITE collar work. In focuses on manufacturing, it will help build communities and families again – those communities that once thrived around the local manufacturing plant. It also help in differentiating him from Obama and his big business and regulatory economic plan. It will help the conservatives attract all Americans who are concerned for work. Obama will be offering many Americans who are currently unemployed welfare while Mr. Santorum’s plan will offer many Americans a chance to work again. Furthermore, by focusing on the manufacturing sector almost guarantees that Mr. Santorum will be for deregulation across the board.
Mr. Perry’s plan, while I like it, I don’t think it is feasible to implement in a struggling economy. Mr. Perry wants to slash the current tax code and implement a more simplified system. This will help businesses eventually, but it will take a much longer time to have the desired effect than a targeted focus on one particular industry, such as Manufacturing, that Mr. Santorum’s plan is doing. I think Governor Perry must have been at his best in this forum, he came across well spoken.
And Mr. Santorum did a good job of explaining why Manufacturing should be focused on in preference to other industries. Manufacturing, more than other industires, is involved in the global marketplace. Retail businesses want to be everywhere the products can be bought, while Manufacturing businesses want to build their plants where it costs the least amount while being able to manufacture the best product. As his example stated, to paraphrace: “Hotels generally don’t move to other countries.”
Family, Freedom and a Functioning Economy. After seeing this Huckabee forum Mr. Santorum should be the GOP candidate and is a candidate who can beat Obama. Overall, the ideas of the conservative GOP party seem to be more in alignment with Catholic teaching than do the ideas of the democratic party!
The manufacturing situation is slightly complex. If you buy a car which is made overseas you are not supporting US manufacturing. Yet some of those non-US carmakers have set up plants in the US.
Where are most of the goods sold in Walmart manufactured? If wages are slashed to the required competitive levels for an international labor marketplace, Walmart will be the best many folks will be able to afford. And let’s not forget that wages in China are now facing quite strong upward pressure.
But I’m in full agreement with you on at least one aspect Tyler. I hope santorum becomes the GOP nominee. I really do.
@Tyler, it sounds as if you are not very familiar w/ Michael Voris. He has repeatedly informed Catholics about the various Church teachings and been very vocal about reprimanding many of our American Bishops for not adequately doing their jobs in the office of Bishop. This is why there is so much confusion among so many Catholics. And yes, Voris does not represent the views of all Cathlics because most Cathlics are either a)uninformed or b) obstinate to Church Teaching and want to cherry pick what they want to believe.
oops, sorry for the typos. Can’t get the edit function to work.
Reality, thanks I hope Senator Santorum gets elected as well.
By the way have you noticed that it is the foreign auto manufacturers based in the US that are selling the most cars?! Manufacturing is a robust industry that creates many types of jobs/careers. Moreover, there are also many ancillary benefits to bringing manufacturing home. In fact, this economic idea crosses party lines for the unemployed workers. Unemployed democrats should appreciate this idea as much as Republican unemployed workers.
Do you see any other flaws with bolstering the manufacturing industry in America?
And what is your issue with people shopping at Walmart?
At tonight’s debate Senator Santorum made an excellent point as to how help minority communities to escape poverty.
Doe, I agree with you. I think my comments about Mr. Voris were unclear.
I was trying to answer the question posed in the title of the blog page.
My comment that Mr. Voris doesn’t represent the views of all Catholics was tongue in cheek – I should’ve used an exclamation point at the end of that sentence.
“thanks I hope Senator Santorum gets elected as well.” – no no, thats not what I said. I just hope he wins the GOP nomination.
Some of the concepts he associates with ‘Family’ wouldn’t sit well with many the concepts that many people associate with ‘Freedom’.
I don’t have an issue with people shopping at Walmart. I was pointing out that most of the goods they sell are comparatively ‘cheap’ beacuse they are manufactured in low wage countries. And while there has been downward pressure on wages in the US there have been upward pressures on wages in those other countries. Yet the rich get richer everywhere.
It was good to see that Romney knew the name of the companies that Bain helped! The more specifics he gave the more competent he appeared. He also showed some compassion for the people who lost their jobs, which I thought was a smart thing to do.
Romney’s comment to Sean Hannity after the debate was probably better than the one he gave in the debate. It was shorter and he actually explained how and where he created jobs in the private industry. Furthermore, “doing” the math with Hannity also served him well. Romney should alwasy ”do’ the math in the debate instead of always asking us to do the math without giving us the numbers to do so. In the debate he told us to go get the numbers, he should’ve just said them.
Romney’s response to releasing his tax returns was indecipherable!!
Santorum did well, and was on fire, in showing the differences between Romney and himself tonight. He always showed how his values inform his policy decisions. He also did a good job in showing his economic plan stakes well, if not better, than the policies proposed by the other candidates.
I like Ron Paul’s heart, and his compassion for the vets and their families. His anti-war message has many benefits for the economy and in increasing the good name of America around the world, but on occassion tonight I think he just mailed in his performance and was on auto pilot. In fact, at one point I thought he might have lost his train of thought. I hope he is ok.
Newt was good at getting his points out and is obviously a smart man and is definitely needed by the GOP; but he shouldn’t have gotten so bothered by Romeny’s Super Pac ads.
It is beginning to look like Romney is preparing Santorum! Is it possible that Romney is prepping Santorum for the general election?!
“He always showed how his values inform his policy decisions.” – I think its closer to ‘drive’ than ‘inform’.
“Is it possible that Romney is prepping Santorum for the general election?!” – it could be, maybe Romney will pick santorum as his running mate? Romney for the economic conservatives and santorum for the fundagelicals?
I guess I don’t see the conundrum that Voris sees. I’m glad that the USCCB gets involved in issues like immigration. There are a lot of Catholics that need to be reminded of the values of family and human dignity. I don’t think the problem is the USCCB taking educated and well-explained positions on legislation. The problem is that most people want to get their information from sound bites instead of finding out the details themselves and arriving at their own educated opinion. A Catholic can legitimately disagree with the USCCB regarding the best way to handle a legislative issue, but they shouldn’t disagree with the values at the core of the issue, in this case: respect for family and human dignity.
“Position of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops
To address legitimate concerns surrounding immigration law enforcement in the United States, the USCCB believes that our country must pass comprehensive immigration reform laws to ensure the rule of law, while simultaneously ensuring that the law is rooted in the reunification of family and respectful of the human dignity of the immigrants in our midst.”
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/immigration/stateandlocalimmigrationenforcement.cfm
“Some of the concepts he associates with ‘Family’ wouldn’t sit well with many the concepts that many people associate with ‘Freedom’.”
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Reality which freedoms are you talking about? Perhaps the freedoms you are thinking about would be better classified as crimes! Lets go through your concerns point by point.
@Tyler: sorry, Tyler. I went back and re-read what you wrote and realized you must have been writing tongue in cheek. :)
No, not crimes Tyler. Freedoms which have been widespread and accepted as not being illegal, immoral or wrong. Just a few would include non-marital sex, the use of contraceptives and homosexuality.
Reality let us both be specific (really I am asking you to do so because you are the “person” making the allegations), which GOP candidate wants to make non-marital sex a crime? Which GOP candidate wants to make contraceptives a crime? And for the previous question please define what you mean be contraceptives or provide an exhaustive list of the contraceptives that the GOP candidate is trying to criminalize. Finally, which GOP candidate wants who to make homosexuality a crime?
In the interest of honesty please provide as much support as you can for any of your answers.
No problem Doe…my fault for not specifying. I ran into this problem once before, when I misunderstood one of Jack’s satirical comments.
Mr. Voris always provides an unique perspective on the issues.