Pro-choicer needs advice on how to handle family abortion confrontations
… [F]or those of us with anti-choice family members, how do you handle family gatherings?
I have typically tried to avoid discussing health care or politics. But that strategy crapped out on me over the holidays when my mom started asking me why I don’t support adoption over abortion. I walked away from a fight and took a shower to calm down.
However, I can’t do that with every confrontation. I’d love to find a few strategies for dealing with anti-choice family confrontations.
~ Serena, Abortion Gang, January 26
Jan.27, 2012 6:00 am |
Adoption |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
So Serena’s mother presented her with an idea that clearly is a choice – adoption over abortion, yet Serena couldn’t take that.
Their movement really needs to stop calling themselves pro-choice, because they make it crystal clear the only correct “choice” is abortion.
Stop killing babies! That’ll solve the problem.
Dear Serena,
Your narcissism and hedonism are mental disorders which by nature are not open to reason, or even good coping strategies. They have at their root aggressive assertion of the will above all else. Examples of things eclipsed by narcissism and hedonism are:
Charity
Kindness
Decency
Patience
Forbearance
Logic
Facts
These are optional and tolerated only subject to the whim of the narcissist and hedonist, the same as unborn babies.
Coping strategies will always break down in the face of your mental illness, as narcissism sees opposition as an egodystonic threat. If it’s any consolation, apart from soothing showers, you have my prayerful best wishes for the healing of whatever wounds that have led to your murderous heart.
So Serena, why don’t you? Couldn’t answer a simple question so she got huffy and stormed off. Typical of pro-aborts.
Boy…..if she can’t even answer a simple question like ”why I don’t support adoption over abortion “….then there really is no defensible “common ground” is there?
Either you choose death or you choose life for the baby…there is no middle ground…unless you count zombies… *LOL*
Serena, just be prepared to spend holidays alone for the sake of “choice”…
What kind of person would randomly pick a fight over a contentious political issue during the holidays? Whatever happened to etiquette? It’s implicitly understood within my family that when socializing, politics and religion are not to be discussed.
Joan,
You ask a really good question, and I support your answer, in part. A holiday meal ought to be safe ground for all concerned. It is a vehicle and device for uniting and strengthening the bonds of love and intimacy. It is a time to rejoice in our love and affection, and a unique opportunity to do so. Dinner should be consumed with our affection for one another.
However, Serena simply refers to an encounter over the holidays, and does not specifically reference a meal. Was she visiting from out of town?
Parents don’t cease being parents when the children are grown. Good parents realize that their role shifts from being directive to being that of an adult mentor. Serena’s mother was trying to get her daughter to soften her heart, to see possibilities for life, to instill in her a sense of hope.
A good parent never gives up on their child, ever. I’ll always love my children, but that love does not mean blind and uncritical acceptance of their potential future flawed beliefs or moral failings. True love means embracing one’s child while challenging them to grow.
The encounter described is a poignant one. A mother is trying to communicate to her daughter, the daughter she bore, the beauty of life and the beauty of motherhood-even adopted motherhood. Poor Serena can’t receive such a message from the woman who gave her life.
That’s a mighty big wound, and no amount of hot showers will undo that cramp.
Doncha just LOVE it when we’re referred to as “anti-choice”? Get this straight, PRO-ABORTS:
We believe in CHOICE, too:
You have the CHOICE whether or not to have sex.
You have the CHOICE whom to have sex with.
You have the CHOICE whether or not to use birth control.
You have the CHOICE what method of birth control you use.
BUT:
If you CHOOSE to have sex, and CHOOSE not to use birth control then, guess what…
YOU “MAY” BECOME PREGNANT.
When you’ve made a HUMAN LIFE, it’s your “choice” whether to be the parent of a DEAD baby (by abortion), or a LIVE one, and your choice whether to parent that baby, or give it to someone else who wants to.
If your first few choices were taken away- by rape or incest, you STILL have the choice to keep the baby, or give him/her to someone who wants a child.
Having an abortion is not a “cure” for rape/incest. It does NOT “un-rape” you.
As for being “forced” to carry a rapist’s child..He/she is YOUR child, too, not just the rapist’s.
yes – and having met people conceived by rape – they deserve to be born and live outside the womb. We had Rebecca Kiessling here to our community a few years ago, and she reminded people that the rape exception hurts humans too – it kills the innocent child for the crimes of the father.
In both of the women I know, both were adopted into other families, and they are living good lives because they were allowed to live.
Welcome to the family – if you are human, we should all stand to protect you and allow you to have life. And if a woman can not or does not want to have the responsibility to parent that child after birth, the loving and living choice it to have that child placed in a family where that child is loved and cherished.
Save all the baby humans! The choice is for life! ;)
If someone asked me why I didn’t support adoption OVER abortion I may react the same way. Pro-choice is about making all choices equal because it’s not my place to judge. I don’t support ANY option over another – I support all women having every choice. If a woman wants to choose adoption over abortion, however, I would support her and think she was making a very strong and valuable decision.
All choices are not equal. Abortion always ends in death.
In your opinion all choices are not equal. In the pro-choice mindset they all are – INCLUDING adoption and keeping the child.
(3….2….1…. until someone points out I used the word “child”. I’m doing that on purpose, folks. No need.)
Yes, Rebecca is my “friend” on Facebook. She has “liked” several of my comments to her on FB ;)
Elizabeth, I could respect that (that in the pro-“choice” mindset all choices are equal) except that then we have pro-“choice” people fighting CPC’s that offer help to women who WANT to keep their babies or fighting any mention of adoption or fighting to force women to abort (I think of teens who have to get lawyers to be able to keep their babies or that judge who is trying to FORCE a mentally ill woman to abort when she has stated over and over she wants the baby). It seems like many in the pro-“choice” camp are really pro-abortion, not pro-choice. I realize this might not be you or that this doesn’t apply to ALL but many many people I’ve met that say they are pro-choice really just turn out to be pro-abortion.
the irony that pro-“choice” people call us pro-lifers “anti-choice” when they try to limit women from all their choices by closing down CPC’s etc!!!
Sydney, you make excellent points. I had already been pro-life for years, but if I had still been pro-choice in the present, the attacks on CPC’s would have driven me away! I used to be one of those people who’d say that we should offer pregnant women help. But if we attack those very sources of help, we are not treating all choices as equal. It’s the same with abstinence: it is a valid behavior choice and one that prevents STD’s for free, but pro-choicers constantly rail against abstinence education. Constantly. They constantly erect their “you all hate sex and want only to control women” straw man, with his little straw sidekick named “you all hate social programs and don’t care about babies after they are born.”
I know that some pro-choicers do think they mean well, but I wish they’d open their eyes to what their fellow abortion advocates are all about. If pro-choicers were really pro-CHOICE, we wouldn’t be reading today’s quote and we wouldn’t be commenting here about this.
Couldn’t she use some of her pro choice science facts like how the fetus doesn’t have a heart until the 24 weeks? or does that just sound too stupid in person?
Do pro-choicers really believe that the “choice” to give birth to a child and either raise that child or let that child be adopted is equal to the “choice” to kill that same child by abortion?
Obviously not from the child’s perspective.
I think it’s sad that, as a supposedly civilized society, certain segments can espouse the notion that mother vs. child is ok, and that in the end, mother should win out at the cost of her baby’s life.
Elizabeth:
Please explain how it is that as a thinking, breathing, woman, you do not have the right to look at a situation (whether is is happening to you or you friend) and not make a value judgment?
In an abortion, someone always dies. What freaky parallel universe do you come from where that is morally equivalent to allowinf that baby to live????
COME ON!!
Sydney, I really appreciate you understanding that there are many different kinds of pro-choice people – just as there are many different kinds of pro-life people. Anyone that would force a woman (or girl) into an abortion should not carry the pro-choice label, imo, in the same way that anyone that would murder an abortionist should not carry the pro-life label.
I have absolutely no problem with CPCs as long as they present only accurate information and do not trick women into an appointment by advertising “abortion services” or anything along that vein. I think options and organizations that help women should always be supported as long as they are TRULY helping women instead of just providing a particular slant.
Slant? You mean the slant towards life instead of dismemberment? Elizabeth, your language is keeping you away from horror that abortion is.
Another “gotcha” question from Courtnay.
I am a person, Courtnay. I believe in God, I love my family, I try to do the best for every person I come into contact with. You and I disagree COMPLETELY on the ideology and the right and wrong-ness of abortion but I still try to see things from your viewpoint and believe that you have the best of intentions. Why can you guys do the same for the pro-choice side? Maybe we’re just two different groups that believe strongly in our causes but not because we’re better than each other or one side is evil – just because we have different viewpoints and ideas on what is best.
Killing a baby is never “best”, Elizabeth. It’s more than just “different viewpoints”. It’s a matter of life and death.
Why can you guys do the same for the pro-choice side?
Because there is a real cost in actual human lives of just letting the pro-legal-abortion side continue on their path without opposition. I can’t just “live and let live”, and “see things from their side” when children are being killed as a consequence. I can’t just let it slide just as I would do my best to intervene if I caught a father beating his toddler to death in an alley as I happened to be walking. That’s the idea…one side IS evil, because it IS evil to kill or support those who kill their children, and especially those who have created an industry off of that killing. That’s the heart of being Pro-Life, and you will never change it.
Elizabeth, please don’t mistake my cordiality for acceptance or even understanding. I don’t understand you at all, and if you believe that killing a child is an acceptable or equal choice, then your view is absolutely evil. I will call you out in a heartbeat….and in your case, a living heart beat.
Elizabeth – all choices are not equal. As Pamela, Xalisae and others have mentioned – when one of the choices ends in death or harm to another – that is not ok when it’s done on purpose!
So I have potatoes as a side dish or pasta – no moral difficulty there – but in choosing or not choosing abortion always ends in death for someone when abortion is chosen … voila – an unequal choice where one has the right and duty to help out and save the one who will be harmed!
If you do not believe in slavery, in harming another, in human usury, or death to innocents, then I invite you to look at abortion – not as another choice, but as the human rights’ violation it is. … Now does every woman really understand this when she has an abortion? No. Should we condemn a woman who has had past abortions? No. We should extend the kindness and healing that is needed in these circumstances.
But condone, and be silent when an atrocity is being committed? Nope. Not for a second.
So things are not all equal. Grave injustice demands action and heart – to heal and save.
Elizabeth, I agree with you that someone who pushes only abortion should not say they are “pro-choice and I also agree that someone who kills or advocates killing abortionists should not say they are “pro-life”.
I have worked at a CPC and in fact, in my current pregnancy, went to another one for help. They provide whatever the woman needs to have her baby. They do not sell abortion. they give free ultrasounds and provide whatever social services the woman needs. Free of charge. They are absolutely wonderful. They give women the other side of “choice”. A live baby.
Oh Courtnay, I never said you were cordial at all. That’s what I was trying to say.
I am intolerant of murder and those who see it as a solution. How would I be anything less, or other?
And I am being cordial–you caught me on a good day.
Particular slant..ideology.. yep, words and words. But really, is the jar at the clinic filling up with idealogy? Nope. It looks like blood to me. The living, gestating human being doesn’t just painlessly slip into another dimension or alternate universe. Abortion is brutal murder.
I am pro-life because of who died during the abortion. WHO died. My ideology didn’t die. My child died. No amount of rationalization will change the facts.
LOLing @ “why can’t you do the same for the prochoice side”. What do you think we’ve been doing for the last 40 years? The time for talking is long since over-it’s time to ACT. 40 years of “come let us reason together” has gotten us no closer to recriminalizing abortion. There is no common ground on murder. We just passed the 55 million mark for abortions in this country. This nation used to be a shining beacon of liberty and haven for the vulnerable and oppressed of the world-is it any wonder that the blessings we used to enjoy are being withdrawn, when we won’t even stand up to protect the weakest among us? All of us bear the bloodguilt as a nation for the crime of abortion-a choice that is made for us whether we agreed to it or not. It’s time to stop talking and listening to all the feminist excuses-if 55 million dead aren’t enough to empower them, 55 billion won’t be either. The debate is over. It’s time to overturn Roe, and we should accept nothing less.
I’ve got a solution: Stop infantacide.
The Abortion Gang site should come with a warning-I lose precious brain cells and IQ points every time I hit it. Same with RHUnreality and Jezebel. I feel stupider just typing those names. Think I’ll go play in traffic now.
Jill,
Why was my post deleted? I thought the Infant Risk center was very relevant to the post to offer help?
The ONLY thing pro-aborts can do is avoid these conversations and try to make it a taboo subject. Now that technology has proven the absurdity of their claims that unborn babies are just clumps of cells and not real children. They look so uneducated and foolish now when they use the ’clumps of cells’argument…..so what if the clumps of cells are shaped a lot like a human beings with fingers and toes and arms and legs and a nose; with a heart and nervous system and a head and eyes just like their parent’s eyes; right Elizabeth?
Truthseeker-that’s why they now cling to their feminist construct of bodily autonomy-because their 40 year old junk science has been disproved, but its harder to disprove an opinion.
The problem with the pro-“choice” theory is that the very one that “choice” affects gets NO “choice” in the matter. Also I agree that every pro-“choicer” I have dealt with seems to feel that the only right “choice” is abortion. Mention carrying the baby to term and they say that’s oppressing the woman. Well mankind is going to come to an end if women stop
getting “oppressed” like that.
I tried commenting on her article. Why is it that on all the pro-abortion pages comments have to be approved? My answer didn’t agree with pro-choice so it will probably not be accepted. If they are so strong in their convictions I wonder why they feel such a need to censor what people say. I have not been on one pro-life site yet (and I’ve been on many) that requires comment approval. When you have nothing to hide there is no need for censorship. I have not seen one pro-choice site yet that doesn’t require comment approval. I have only tried to comment on several occasions. I have always been polite I just offered a different view than pro-choice. I have yet to have a comment ever be approved.
You won’t get a commen through on abortion gang. Thet censor all prolife comments while billing their site as being about open dialogue. Laughable.