When I asked her personal view on the sonogram law, she said: “It’s kind of invasive. It’s belittling to sit in a doctor’s office” waiting to hear “what’s going on in my body.”
~ Lori Stahl and Mary C. Curtis, noting the remarks of mother, college student, and Ron Paul supporter Kayla Crisp regarding Texas’ informed consent law, The Washington Post, January 11
[Photo via thedoctorstv.com]
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
That’s just dumb. Why else would you go to a doctor’s office, except to find out/manage what’s going on with your body? That’s the whole purpose of doctors in the first place. If you don’t want to know, perhaps you shouldn’t be there in the first place.
oh for petes sake. can anyone win anymore? what if i thought i had a broken wrist and i said the x ray was too invasive? complain complain complain. some people would complain if their icecream was cold. agreeing with you alice!
Abortion is by its very nature, invasive!!
So it is NOT belittling to be kept in the dark about your baby? To be lied to by omission at the mill and told it “is just a bunch of cells?” To be treated as though you don’t have a brain in your head and sold an abortion(Will that be Visa or Mastercard today?)because you TRUSTED them to tell you the truth?? You trusted them when they said it was NO BIG DEAL and you could GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE??? When you were asked “What kind of mother would you be??”
I didn’t know then what I know now and until my last breath I will fight the evil that is abortion and channel my righteous anger into telling women THE TRUTH. The truth that I was never given!!!
Preach it, Carla! We love you!
yes carla thank you for speaking out on behalf of all the women who were lied to by the abortion industry. we need to turn the dumbing down of women by the radical baby killing feminists and male ( the majority) abortionists. btw the ultimate misogyny. also i am set free after having a 14 year relationship with planned parentless and 14 years of depo provera! oops should say the ultimate mysogyny is allowing a male abortionist kill your baby after an irresponsible male leaves you hi dry and pregnant. “just go have an abortion.”
we should hold signs that read ” dumbed down no more ” how about ” my body my choice not to have an abortion” or “why do i have to put dangerous hormones into my body to please pro abortion men”???? oh the list could go on.
Not sure why it’s added in that she’s a Ron Paul supporter – I’m pretty sure that, as a doctor who has delievered babies, he wouldn’t find a sonogram “invasive” – just because that is her view, doesn’t mean it is his.
She clearly just has issues with going to a doctor in general, as the first few comments said.
why would you not want to know whats going on inside your body? thats why we do mri’s and cat scans and blood work. duh!
I’m a Ron Paul supporter but I didn’t say all of us were bright. I guess she also believes in drilling all teeth instead of taking x-rays to see if there is a cavity first.
Sydney, I am also a Ron Paul supporter – this woman does not speak for us OR him.
i also like ron paul so she doesnt speak for me either.
The reason why it’s listed that she is a Ron Paul supporter is because the entire article’s theme is about how Ron Paul agrees with the sonogram law but not all of his supporters agree that this is a libertarian stance.
Also pointed out in the article is the fact that most first trimester ultrasounds are done via vaginal probe. So yeah, I guess the procedure is a bit invasive. Far less invasive than an abortion however.
Most? I had my first U/S with my daughter at 7 weeks. It was a “regular” sonogram. The gel, the “wand” (or whatever they call it) over the OUTSIDE of my belly.
Have things changed THAT much in five years?
Kel – those supports should prob. do a little reading and figure out what a real libertarian is.
Besides – they don’t HAVE to have this sonogram – only if they are trying to get an abortion. If they don’t want one - don’t try to get an abortion. Easy as that.
Pamela – Agreed. I’ve never been pregnant, but from all my family, friends, etc. I have never heard of a vaginal sonogram.
I had a transvag ultrasound with my first pregnancy to determine a due date. I was about 5 weeks pregnant at the time.
But at 11 weeks when I was having some unexplained bleeding, they did a regular ultrasound on me.
My first pregnancy in 2006 I had a vaginal ultrasound. My husband was seated in a chair facing the bed I was lying on and couldn’t stop laughing. I was like “Shut up!” but I was laughing too. I was 5 weeks pregnant.
The second pregnancy I had an ultrasound in August. I was 8 weeks. That was a “regular” ultrasound on my belly.
A vaginal ultrasound isn’t any more intrusive than an abortion. And don’t they normally have to determine fetal size before the abortion anyhow? So whats the problem? Show the patient her baby!!
It’s been a while since I’ve had a prenatal ultrasound (over 12 years) but all my 1st trimester ultrasounds were done vaginally.
There’s a clear difference between:
a) Performing a routine ultrasound and asking a patient if she wants to see the screen (standard procedure in most abortion clinics these days)
vs.
b) Forcing her to listen to a prepared script about fetal development–crafted by people determined to dissuade her from making the abortion decision–while there’s a probe inside her vagina.
The latter situation would be similar to mandating that all cancer patients get a lesson on Christian Science before they undergo chemo. Not the time and place. It’s both invasive and insulting.
No Megan, its not like that at all. Christian Science isn’t about real science. It would be akin to informing a cancer patient how chemo works and the pros and cons of using chemo to combat cancer.
Fetal development is scientific fact. Its not a fairy tale concocted by conservatives. Why shouldn’t women be informed of facts before submitting to an abortion? Why shouldn’t they see exactly WHAT they’re having suctioned from their womb? Oh I know. Because actually seeing that heartbeat and little arms and legs waving will make it that much harder to pretend that abortion isn’t killing her child. Got it.
And none of my friends who aborted were asked if they wanted to see the ultrasound when at the clinic Megan. So “standard procedure” is debatable.
Years later when they got pregnant with “wanted” children they were highly distressed to see their first trimester babies fully formed and moving. They were amazed yet at the same time the reality of what had been killed in their abortions hit them in their hearts. How much better it would have been if they had been fully informed of such facts BEFORE they had the abortions.
Megan, it’s not going to be a prepared script if they’re in an abortion clinic! Duh! The clinic WANTS them to have an abortion! They are BY NO MEANS looking to dissuade. And how is it intrusive??? The woman has had a sexual partner in her vagina, and if she has an abortion, she’s going to have a lot more than a probe inside her. I don’t think the clinic worker needs to tell the woman anything, just let her see the ultrasound and ask questions.
More information is more power. Or do you disagree, Megan? I guess you do.
a vaginal probe? id take that any day over all the sharp brutal objects they insert to perform an abortion.
I don’t think the clinic worker needs to tell the woman anything, just let her see the ultrasound and ask questions.
The law would require that the person performing the ultrasound show and describe the stage of fetal development for the patient (i.e. arms and legs have formed, etc.).
The reason why they fight so hard against this is NOT because it “belittles” women but because by informing women of what the abortion procedure will actually remove, it reduces the likelihood that they will go through with their abortions. That’s not empowerment. It’s belittling to refuse to fully inform women.
You guys are so awesome!!! Whoop whoop!!
What’s PP so freaking afraid of?? That a woman make an informed decision after seeing her fully formed innocent human baby on ultrasound?
THE DECISION JUST MIGHT BE TO HOP OFF THE TABLE AND TELL THOSE “CARING PROFESSIONALS” TO SHOVE IT!!!
Profit walking out the door.
I am sorry Megs that you are insulted by knowledge. Insulted by learning. Insulted by the truth. Insulted that women DESERVE to have informed consent about their child BEFORE they kill her.
There is a difference between an ultrasound to say “you are x weeks along” and an ultrasound to say “I am required by law to tell you that you already have a very special relationship with this fetus.” A relationship with a fetus is not science, friends.
right a relationship with a fetus is a mother baby relationship.
Elizabeth,
Is telling me the biological facts telling me to have a relationship? I think not. My dental hygenist tells me facts but she doesn’t tell me to feel warm and fuzzy about anything. If you wanted abortion to be treated like any other procedure, we wouldn’t be having this comment thread. But you don’t, and we all know it. You want abortion to be special: paid for by the taxpayer, on demand, without rationale. Pro-choicers say, if we don’t like abortion don’t have one. Well, don’t use my money either.
Pro-choicers say, keep your rosaries off my ovaries. Well, keep your uterus out of my wallet!!!
Elizabeth, they wouldn’t need to use the term “special relationship.” What I saw with mine was a head, a spine, arms and legs, all moving around.
Having said that, a mother does have a special relationship with her unborn baby, no matter how small. Bucket of Duh!! Both our babies–Mine AND Megan’s were relying upon us to to the right thing by her. She wanted to live, having had no part in actually bringing herself into existence. Both hearts were beating, both bodies were growing, bith sets of DNA were scrambling themselves into wonderful combinations of human-ness.
Except Megan killed hers. And mine is a 13 year old girl named Emmy.
It’s belittling to sit in a doctor’s office” waiting to hear “what’s going on in my body.”
No..it’s a little “uncomfortable”, sometimes “annoying” if you have a long wait in a doctor’s office..especially if you’re sitting there already undressed…
But “belittling”? Hardly. Get over yourself and stop being such a drama queen!
If you’re pregnant, “what’s going on” in your body is LIFE.
“I am sorry Megs that you are insulted by knowledge. Insulted by learning. Insulted by the truth.”
And since “knowledge” and “learning”, even unsolicited, are always, without qualification, good and welcome things, Carla invites every Jehovah’s Witness that knocks on her door into her house for a two-hour learning session so that she may benefit from their wisdom. If she doesn’t, there should be a law that she must.
“And how is it intrusive??? The woman has had a sexual partner in her vagina, and if she has an abortion, she’s going to have a lot more than a probe inside her.”
See? A law such as described above, would not, in fact, be intrusive, because people will sometimes welcome other people into their homes, so what’s the difference between a voluntary intrusion like that and the state mandating that people allow other people into their homes, as long as it’s for knowledge and learning and the truth?
“Except Megan killed hers. And mine is a 13 year old girl named Emmy.”
And you’re here every day, constantly invoking the fact that you didn’t have an abortion, apparently as some sort of rhetorical cudgel against Megan and other women who did and who have stood by their decisions. Trying to reassure yourself that you made the right choice?
Joan, gosh, you are evil. There I said it. You are downright evil! Right, I am sure that Courtnay wishes her daughter were DEAD. no, YOU would wish that Joan. I saw how giddy you got over that 2 year old girl who was run over by a truck in China. Gosh, what is WRONG with you??????
Megan, Reality, CC might be bitter pro-choice folks but I don’t think they have utter cold, evil hearts. But YOU. My gosh. The things that come out of your typing fingers is chilling. Do you see how awful you sound?
If abortion is like any other medical procedure Joan then why shouldn’t the woman be shown and EXPLAINED the ultrasound? I had an ultrasound of my breast when I was 15 because I found a lump and I have a lot of breast cancer in my family. They showed me the ultrasound and explained the ultrasound to me. Yawn. It was boring.
When I was a week pregnant with my son I had intense pain on my left ovary. They thought I had cysts so they did an ultrasound. They didn’t realize the pain was implantation pain and the corpus luteum.
Anyhow, they looked at both ovaries and showed them to me. They explained what they were looking for. They told me my ovaries were ‘beautiful”. Ha. Again, yawn. Boring!
A month later I was having my first ultrasound with my oldest son. A vaginal one. They showed me this little nugget of a person in my womb. I could make out orbits of the eyes, a face, arms and legs jutting out….that galloping beating heart. I cried. It was emotional. It was VERY interesting! I couldn’t believe this little life was nestled in MY womb. WOW.
You pro-aborts know the difference between ultrasounds of breasts, ovaries and babies in the womb. You know that women will react with strong emotion. You know that any woman who isn’t completely cold-hearted (Joan, you prove they do exist) will feel a surge in her maternal urges. You know most women will choose to walk out of that clinic and birth their baby. Alive.
And you can’t stand that. You can’t stand the thought that women will choose life and there will be more children on this planet. Admit it.
There is a difference between an ultrasound to say “you are x weeks along” and an ultrasound to say “I am required by law to tell you that you already have a very special relationship with this fetus.” A relationship with a fetus is not science, friends.
Even saying “you are x weeks along” is a kind of euphemism, really. What this law does is remove euphemisms and fully inform the patient not only about how long the patient has been pregnant, but also about the level of development her child currently has, which is relevant information (the type of abortion procedure used changes based on level of development of the gestating child). A relationship with a fetus IS science. Genetically, biologically, a pregnant woman shares a parent/child relationship with her embryo/fetus. That embryo/fetus is her offspring, which is a synonym for “child”. That is scientific, and can be proven through genetic testing.
“Joan, gosh, you are evil. There I said it. You are downright evil! Right, I am sure that Courtnay wishes her daughter were DEAD. no, YOU would wish that Joan.”
Oh, pardon me. I thought armchair psychoanalysis was in vogue around these parts. I guess it’s a one-way street.
“If abortion is like any other medical procedure Joan then why shouldn’t the woman be shown and EXPLAINED the ultrasound?”
she should–if she wants to. But you and others here are making the argument that every woman should be forced to have an intrusive, unsolicited surgical procedure performed on them, based on the flimsiest, most laughable of premises, i.e. “she’s already had something in her vagina before! What’s the big deal?!” (would this reasoning also double as a defense of rape? Why not?), or my favorite, “It’s just truth and knowledge!”
Joan,
It was 45 minutes. Not 2 hours.
Megs,
I deleted your comment as you were spiraling once again into blasphemy. Apparently when you have spoken with a medical professional and he/she has explained everything that is going to happen…you were COERCED!! Only in your world could facts and truth be coercion.
Come on, Megan. Your child died in your abortion. The same as mine. It might be time for you to reach out for help.
Trying to reassure yourself that you made the right choice?
No. Looking at our children loving life every day shows us for a fact that we made the right choice, no reassurance involved. However, seeing our kids alive every day, watching their lives unfold, not only gives us all the “reassurance” we’ll ever need, but also shows us that Megan’s decision was the wrong one, and her child died for it. Instead of facing every day with the joy of discovery, and hardships with determination and ingenuity, they get the dumpster. They got the incinerator. They got the biohazard container. And, just like our kids, they deserved so much better than that. They still do, but all they can have now is respect and mourning. And that’s better than the cold indifference or hollow excuses (sometimes even outright animosity) they get now. We’re not doing this for our benefit. We do it for theirs.
yeah, Megan. The fact you had your child killed before they could take their first breath makes you so much better than us crazy moms who actually had the heart and compassion to do our best for our children rather than kill them.
You don’t sound as though you feel guilty at all, talking about how your baby had fingers and toes and calling it a litany. Not one bit.
Joan, doctors have a DUTY to explain the procedure. If a patient will not listen to the risks of the surgery or the facts pertaining to the surgery no surgeon in his or her right mind would go ahead and perform the surgery. Only abortionists are different because we know they aren’t of the same caliber as other physicians.
I had foot surgery as a 19 year old for a bone growth. I had the surgeon explain the facts about what he was going to do to my foot and the risks of the surgery which included LOSING MY FOOT due to loss of circulation. Scary stuff. If I had refused to listen to him and had said “Don’t explain any risks to me. I don’t want to hear it. I’ve made up my mind already.” He would have said “You are not making a good decision because you don’t know all the facts. You have to be informed before you can give consent.” If I had refused he would have told me no go on the surgery.
Why is abortion different? You pro-aborts scream all the time that abortion is JUST LIKE ANY OTHER SURGERY but then you keep trying to treat it as something special where the patient doesn’t have to be informed before giving consent the surgeon should just perform the surgery anyhow even if the patient demonstrates an immaturity and lack of understanding of what she is consenting to.
no the pro aborts are the very people who sit around and wonder if they did the right thing. im telling you now…..you didnt.
mysogyny means a hate or mistrust of women. pro aborts like megan and joan fit this bill. they loathe women who regret their abortions and they dont seem to be happy with we women who birthed our kids either. total mysogyny
“Only in your world could facts and truth be coercion.”
The factuality of something doesn’t mean it’s relevant to a particular medical procedure. A doctor could read the entirety of Gray’s Anatomy to a cancer patient–all facts–but at some point the information would just be superfluous. An abortion patient deserves to be treated just like every other patient: told what to expect during and after the procedure, and given the opportunity to ask questions.
But since you seem to think all facts have equal weight, should OG/GYNs force their patients to listen to testimonies from women suffering from post-partum depression?
i dont know how megan and joan were brought up and they dont owe me an answer. i have indeed called them both either cold or evil. tell me though ladies did you feel unloved as children? do you love yourselves? why did both of you abort to begin with? im trying to switch gears here. most women who abort have just allowed men to use them for sex. allowing a man to use you usually stems from low self esteem or no self worth. do either of you agree with me? im being very genuine.
maybe we can get somewhere if i try a little compassion? you guys are on a pro life blog. are you looking for healing? answers? carla has extended her hand many times. come on and open up a little.
joan says:
But you and others here are making the argument that every woman should be forced to have an intrusive, unsolicited surgical procedure performed on them,
********************************************************************
An ultrasound is not a surgical procedure.
Megan, facts about fetal development are not superfluous. We aren’t asking abortionists to read about how the sperm travel for 6 hours to the egg or how the trophoblast implants and divides into two parts that become placenta and baby’s body. We aren’t asking them to read about how cell division takes place and how sex organs develop around the 12th week and how the baby forms 2 extra sets of kidneys before finally growing the third and final pair nor how the intestines develop outside the body before migrating into the body.
I am talking about MAJOR developmental milestones which are pertinent to the nature of the creature which is about to be sucked out of the woman’s body during the abortion. Things like how the heart starts beating as a one chambered vesicle around 21 days and grows and matures until it is a 4 chambered organ like what adults have. I am talking about sharing facts, not opinions, like how the brain starts emitting detectable brain waves at around 40 days. I am talking about facts like how the baby starts moving around 6-8 weeks after conception and how 6 weeks after conception the baby has a face, arms, legs, fingers and toes. Ya know, facts like that. Facts that women will discover later in life and will fill them with pain and regret that they didn’t know and weren’t told such things before their abortions.
But since you seem to think all facts have equal weight, should OG/GYNs force their patients to listen to testimonies from women suffering from post-partum depression?
ABSOLUTELY pregnant women should be informed about post partum depression!! For too long post-partum depression wasn’t even acknowledged. It would HELP a woman to know that she’s not going crazy, that her hormones are fluctuating, and that other women have been through the same thing. Many women have suffered alone. Now, forcing them to listen to a lot of testimony is probably too time consuming, BUT a doctor can easily outline the recognizable symptoms and advise them to seek out more information, that might even include testimonies.
Why, why do you abortion advocates insist on treating abortion as a sacred cow, and then hypocritically cry about it not being treated like other medical procedures?? You can’t have it both ways. Either it’s an unregulated free for all, or it’s not. Better yet, let’s abolish it altogether.
You tell em, Carla! Do I hear an Amen?
It’s absolutely nothing; it’s no big deal; it’s just a clump of tissue…yep, they used that same old line(s) (excuse me… old “lie”) on me 40 years ago. Don’t tell me….I saw my baby!
Keep speaking out, Carla. Thank you so much. Come on, Megan & others…just talk to Carla. Reach out; she’ll be there. I know it’s hard; I’ve been there, too. You have nothing to lose – everything to gain.
doctors address post partum depression. sometimes they even medicate the women for it.
and there is some good news. our yellow pages lists only 2 abortion clinics BUT now there are tons of adoption agencies. also NOW they are addressing post abortion syndrome! these adds are sprouting up left and right. the tide is turning. PAS is as real as PPD. the adds say ” need abortion healing “???? call this number.
I GOT MEDICATED FOR POST PARTUM!!! It was the best decision I ever made, and my ob/gyn let me know about it before my baby was born.
And Joan, my decision to have Emmy wasn’t a cudgel. It was evidence of my humanity. No one needs to beat up Megan here–she comes here for a reason.I wish her healing.
Oh, and Joan??? No regrets about Emmy. She is the brightest light in my heart.
Ninek, thank you.
Megan, actually I was warned about post partum depression during my first pregnancy. I am sure I will be told the warning signs again as I near birth. And I appreciate the information. Why do you seek to deny women having abortions valid information? Well we know why. They won’t make the same choice you did.
“Trying to reassure yourself that you made the right choice?”
You’re projecting again, joan. Find me the women that will publicly wear Tshirts or sport bumper stickers that says they wish they had aborted their child. We all know some feminazis who wear shirts that say, “I had an abortion” but show me the gals who say they wish they had aborted their child.
C’mon, joan. Call out those abusive cowards who will only say this to little kids. Encourage them to tell the world that beautiful children should be regretted so that we who are sane and stable can start the process of removing these children from these homes.
We all know that women (and men) who say to their children that they wish they would have killed them are abusive losers but we then legalize abortion. Logic fail. To copy another prolifer, Big Bucket of Duh! (love this saying btw).
The worst days with my children are better than my greatest days without them.
“An abortion patient deserves to be treated just like every other patient: told what to expect during and after the procedure”
Yeah, so good luck getting the abortionists to say, “Your unborn child is a unique individual human. There has never, ever been a human like this child before in history and there will never be another one like him again in history. Now, understand that this procedure will rip your child into pieces and cause his premature death with no way of turning back and saving him. You may likely spend many depressive years regretting your choice to pay me to kill your child. Or then again, you may never claim to regret your choice but instead spend year after lonely year acting ecstatic about your choice to pay me to kill your child. Sometimes these years are spent obsessively arguing about and defending your choice to those who see the humanity in all humans and find it appalling that a mother would choose and in many cases be coerced to legally kill her child.”
I am also a huge fan of “big bucket of DUH.” That was hippie. She rocks.
“Forcing her to listen to a prepared script about fetal development–crafted by people determined to dissuade her from making the abortion decision–while there’s a probe inside her vagina.”
Conspiracy theorist much? Geez, now genuine medical information that any sane person would heed to make their own medical decision is “crafted”.
*insert mad scientist laugh*
http://www.layoutsparks.com/1/208732/dr-evil-guy-pose-31000.html
“The latter situation would be similar to mandating that all cancer patients get a lesson on Christian Science before they undergo chemo. Not the time and place. It’s both invasive and insulting.”
Leave it to a pro-choicer to redefine the terms so as to cloud the intellect, as evidenced by this nonsensical analogy. >.< Talk about “crafted.”
It’s belittling to sit in a doctor’s office” waiting to hear “what’s going on in my body.” I want to laugh and cry at the same time. Biting my lip will have to suffice.
Informed consent: get you some.
I don’t know why Joan is making such a big deal about ultrasounds to begin with. Abortionists use ultrasound as standard operating procedure to find the baby before they kill it. Instead of forcing a girl down onto the table and slapping her when she cries about her abortion, the informed consent laws make sure the abortion provider (I won’t say doctor, they don’t rate the distinction) give the girl an opportunity for understanding the TRUE MEDICAL FACTS. The protected relationship the girl has with the baby is a biological one, hence it is scientific. Fetal development information can dissuade a girl from aborting, but it dissuades her because she is making an INFORMED decision.
Bucket of duh, indeed Joan.
Geez.
Whether these women are blissfully ignorant or miserably ignorant, one day they will come across an image of a baby the same age or even younger as theirs. They will be bouncing around, full of life, and they will realize what they have done.
And that Hans is the devastating moment that so many post abortive women have had.
Seeing a subsequent child on ultrasound and being horrified that what they were seeing was not “a bunch of cells” or a “blob of tissue.”
God help us.
Dear Megan,
I am here for you. I will always be here for you. You can email me.
carla@jillstanek.com
Just to ensure we are talking in the context of the facts, here is the actual text of the law where it says exactly what is required.
(1)perform an obstetric ultrasound on the pregnant woman on whom the abortion is to be provided; (2)display the live, real-time obstetric ultrasound images in a quality consistent with current medical practice in a manner so that the pregnant woman may view them; (3)provide, in a manner understandable to a layperson, a simultaneous verbal explanation of the results of the live ultrasound images, including a medical description of the dimensions of the embryo or fetus, the presence of cardiac activity, and the presence of arms, legs, external members and internal organs; and (4)make audible the live, real-time heart auscultation, when present, for the pregnant woman to hear, in a quality consistent with current medical practice and simultaneously provide, in a manner understandable to a layperson, a verbal explanation of the live heart auscultation; There is no “text” or “script” prepared by zealots. There is no requirement to tell the woman that she has a “relationship” with her baby. The only things they have to be told are understandable information regarding the development of the fetus and the heartbeat. And has already been pointed out, they have to get an ultrasound anyway to determine the age of the baby. The law just ensures that the woman see it if she wishes and get an honest bit of information about the baby. And before anyone yell that she does not have the option to avoid the ultrasound, the following is also part of the law.
(a)The pregnant woman may choose to look away from the ultrasound images required to be provided for, displayed to, and reviewed with the pregnant woman under Section 171.021(b). (b)The physician and the pregnant woman are not subject to a penalty under this chapter if the pregnant woman chooses to look away from the ultrasound images
If anyone else cares to see the law, it can be read in its entirety at the following. http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/82R/billtext/pdf/HB00325I.pdf#navpanes=0
Carla: run this by Jill. I think she should have a weekly BIG BUCKET OF DUH feature that highlights the silly things that aborts say, do, or protest.
Bwah, dyah, fwah, pfft, you mean….pro-legal-abortionists have just been MAKING STUFF UP and are HYSTERICAL FOR NO REASON about this law?! OMIGOSH, I can’t believe it! I’m dumbfounded, Bryan. DUMBFOUNDED I SAY!
*snicker*
We are Pro-Life.
We are Pro-Information.
x – it is almost beyond belief, isn’t it! funny how those pesky FACTS get in the way of their outrage
Don’t you silly women understand? you’re not smart enough to know how all this fancy medical stuff works, you need to just leave it to the menHAHAHAHAHAH i’m sorry i just couldn’t keep a straight face! :)
“The pregnant woman may choose to look away from the ultrasound images required to be provided for, displayed to, and reviewed with the pregnant woman under Section 171.021″
Oh, so her head can’t be placed in a vice and her eyelids pried open. Now we’re talking about progress!
“make audible the live, real-time heart auscultation, when present, for the pregnant woman to hear, in a quality consistent with current medical practice and simultaneously provide, in a manner understandable to a layperson, a verbal explanation of the live heart auscultation”
Which is fine, if she WANTS to see the visual and hear the explanation. Otherwise, a description of “real-time heart auscultation,” although “scientific,” is entirely superfluous to the procedure at hand. Unless the woman has miscarried, it has no bearing on what will happen during the abortion. Details about the procedure itself–this is useful information, not attempts at emotional browbeating.
By the way, this issue isn’t just about abortion, but how much of a presence external, special interest groups should have in the doctor’s office. Any bit of propaganda dressed up as science could find a home in the medical establishment. But I can’t think of anything worse than trying to emotionally manipulate a woman when she’s got a probe inside her vagina. Looks like the dead baby parts street theater isn’t doing the trick, eh guys?
“entirely superfluous to the procedure at hand”
Nope. There are two bodies involved in an abortion. Two patients. And one will (most likely) end up dead after the procedure Knowing information about that other body that is involved is not superfluous. If this information causes women to change their mind, certainly a pro-CHOICE person would have no problem with that. If you think abortion-bound women don’t deserve to know anything about that second body involved in the medical procedure, you are pro-ABORTION, not pro-choice.
Good morning, Megan!!
So you don’t want any “emotional browbeating” like what could possibly be living and moving and growing under that transducer?? No “special interests groups” allowed!! But we are expected to PAY FOR IT??!!
Those women just might NOT abort and CHOOSE life after seeing that life. Which is something to be avoided for the proaborts. Only one choice allowed.
btw
“the dead baby parts street theater” is a quote of Joan’s I believe. One must give credit where credit is due.
Megan says:
Looks like the dead baby parts street theater isn’t doing the trick, eh guys?
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Now there’s an admission for you. Dead baby parts, not dead fetus parts. Refreshing.
“Oh, so her head can’t be placed in a vice and her eyelids pried open. Now we’re talking about progress!”
“But I can’t think of anything worse than trying to emotionally manipulate a woman when she’s got a probe inside her vagina.”
More conspiracy theories. Meanwhile, you have no issue with all the girls and women who have been and continue to be deceived and forcibly held down in abortion mills by the abortionists, the assistants, the boyfriends, the husbands, the parents….. puh-leeeeze. Show us you really care by protecting THOSE women. Progress indeed!
“Any bit of propaganda dressed up as science could find a home in the medical establishment.”
Precisely! Which is what we are fighting against, PRO-CHOICE/ABORTION propaganda that is being used TODAY to manipulate girls and women: they’re too young, too poor, too incompetent to be a “good” mother…. and the LIES they have forced down women’s throats! “Clump of tissue” “blob of cells” “it’s not a baby” “it’s not alive” “there is no heartbeat, no legs, no arms, no head” You can ask any grieving post-abortive woman out there, and they will tell you the same thing: They were LIED to. They were DUPED by the very people they thought they could trust. Want medical accountability and safe health care for women? Stop trying to HIDE life-altering medical information from them!
Amen Cheri!!!
What is that popular pro-choice slogan we hear so often? Oh yeah, “TRUST WOMEN”. Unless it involves a sonogram!
“Meanwhile, you have no issue with all the girls and women who have been and continue to be deceived and forcibly held down in abortion mills by the abortionists, the assistants, the boyfriends, the husbands, the parents…”
Sorry to disabuse you of your strawman, but typically only providers and nurses are allowed in the operating room. And if you’re so worried about abuse, have you considered advocating for better clinic intake screening? You know–an intervention that happens BEFORE a woman has a probe inside her vagina?
These sonogram laws are just another attempt to shame women, an observation supported by the statements in this forum implying that if a woman has sex, then she’s consented to all manner of penetration.
“typically only providers and nurses are allowed in the operating room.”
So you are okay with abortionists and nurses holding down unwilling girls onto cold tables and jamming vacuums and sharp metal instruments into their vaginas, but NOT okay with letting these same girls see their own ultrasounds. Too “invasive.” Got it.
“These sonogram laws are just another attempt to shame women, an observation supported by the statements in this forum implying that if a woman has sex, then she’s consented to all manner of penetration.”
You may as well be protesting OB-Gyns, that they are attempting to “shame” women by giving them pap smears before giving them a diagnosis.
How weird that someone would consider it shameful to allow a woman to learn and be informed, ESPECIALLY when it involves her own body. What’s truly shameful is withholding information from women. It reeks of misogyny. Knowledge is power, knowledge empowers women! It’s not shame you’re afraid of, but letting women know the truth about the power of their own bodies: the power to conceive, nurture, and birth another human being! Anyone can kill. It takes true power to NOT KILL.
…and since we’re talking about “shaming women”, i may as well rant some more. I am so sick of pro-choicers vilifying pregnant ladies as broodmares, incubators, breeding machines, slaves, second class citizens… this is hate speech! Stop trashing pregnant ladies to push your diabolical “abortion rights” agenda!
“So you are okay with abortionists and nurses holding down unwilling girls onto cold tables and jamming vacuums and sharp metal instruments into their vaginas.”
Not if the patient is “unwilling,” no. And by the way, what kind of “instruments” do you think surgeons use, anyway? What besides a “sharp metal instrument” is necessary for performing a C-section?
“What’s truly shameful is withholding information from women.”
Which is why the nurse should say, “Hello Ms/ma’am, would you like to see the ultrasound screen? Yes? Okay, here it is. No? Alright, that’s fine.” Pretty simple. Empowerment=voluntary.
“I am so sick of pro-choicers vilifying pregnant ladies as broodmares, incubators, breeding machines, slaves, second class citizens”
Pro-choicers actually recognize childbearing as one of the most significant things a woman can do with her body, which is why we think it should be completely, 100% voluntary.
Amen to this Cheri!! I am one.
You can ask any grieving post-abortive woman out there, and they will tell you the same thing: They were LIED to. They were DUPED by the very people they thought they could trust.
Proaborts actually recognize childbearing as one of the most significant things a woman can do with her body……unless she wants to kill her own child then we applaud her and yell, “WELCOME TO THE EMPOWERED WOMEN’S CLUB!!”
The “voluntary” part comes before the abortion, Megs.
You can not be made to feel shame about something that is not shameful, like having your tonsils or wisdom teeth removed.
If a woman feels shame while seeing an ultrasound of her child before she pays to have him killed, it’s because there is shame in killing one’s child.
Find me one person that feels shame for having a wart, cyst or polyp removed, Megan.
Shame, shame, shame on you Megan for being unrepentant about what you did to your child and for trying to coerce other women to kill their unborn children by advocating they remain uneducated. People here try to help you over and over but you choose to live in your shame.
Abortionists know EXACTLY what they are doing. They know they are brutally ending the life of an innocent human being. They know the truth.
?”You are doing a destructive process. Arms, legs, and chests come out in the forceps. It’s not a sight for everybody” – Abortionist William Benbow Thompson, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of California at Irvine, 1923–2003
I said “attempt to shame,” Praxedes. The only shame I feel is when I have to explain to people I meet from other western, democratic countries that people in the US have an unhealthy fixation on its female citizens’ wombs. It’s embarrassing to live in a society that fetishizes six-week-old embryos when death and misery are just part of the fabric of daily life in the US. The thing about a pro-life stance is that, theoretically, it should demand that ALL lives be equally valued. Curiously, there’s hardly ever a peep in this forum about the value of life when it isn’t the size of a chickpea and lodged inside somebody else’s body. There will be 132 homicides this year in Oakland, CA. 132 lives lost, at least 2,000 life-years more than an embryo or fetus. Are those men and women not “innocent” enough for your outrage?
No Praxedes, I’m only ashamed of my government kowtowing to pro-life thugs who brandish their bloody fetus signs like weapons and pretend it’s compassion.
Shame on you.
Megan,
Prolifers cherish the sanctity of ALL life from conception to natural death. It goes without saying and makes precious little difference to you, Megs. It wouldn’t matter to you in the least if we typed in all caps our feelings about daily homicides across the world!
3500+ babies will be legally murdered today. Do your homework.
And by all means keep moving the goal posts wherever you would like as you try to keep the focus off of your own abortion. Your own child wasn’t innocent enough??
Funny how proaborts never whine when abortionists use ultrasound as a tool to facilitate easier killing, to locate fetal parts so they can be torn off/crushed. I also had a vaginal ultrasound when I was pregnant with my now three year old, the resolution is remarkable-I could see every bone in his spine, every change of expression on his face, even the chambers of his heart. That is why prochoice hates all the new ultrasound technology, because of its amazing accuracy. It’s a nuclear warhead aimed straight at the heart of their lies, a warhead they can’t afford.
”Not if the patient is “unwilling,” no. And by the way, what kind of “instruments” do you think surgeons use, anyway? What besides a “sharp metal instrument” is necessary for performing a C-section?”
You are the one who keeps throwing hissy fits about vaginal probes, m’dear. I don’t see what you’re trying to prove by bringing C-sections into this. You are outraged at vaginal ultrasounds, your only reason being that it might “shame” women, but super-duper supportive of all these nasties:
http://abortioninstruments.com/new_index.html#instruments
So, what ARE you doing to spare all those “unwilling” girls and women from being coerced and abused into getting abortions? You can’t stand us pro-lifers trying to reach out and help them, by virtue of your assumption that we have “unhealthy fixations on female citizens’ wombs”, so the responsibility is on PRO-CHOICERS to save them! I mean, we’re very eager to help, but your movement has done a such a successful job of isolating women that their choices are getting pretty limited….
“Which is why the nurse should say, “Hello Ms/ma’am, would you like to see the ultrasound screen? Yes? Okay, here it is. No? Alright, that’s fine.” Pretty simple. Empowerment=voluntary.”
Which is precisely what is laid out in the sonogram law. By George, she’s got it!
My rant:
“I am so sick of pro-choicers vilifying pregnant ladies as broodmares, incubators, breeding machines, slaves, second class citizens”
Megan’s response:
“Pro-choicers actually recognize childbearing as one of the most significant things a woman can do with her body, which is why we think it should be completely, 100% voluntary.”
Yet you do not condemn those who degrade pregnant women. Instead, you attempt to distract us with another little speech about “choice”. Who are you trying to fool?
Voluntary or not, objectifying pregnant women is inexcusable. Pregnant women are human beings regardless of the “wantedness” of their pregnancies, just as their prenatal children are human beings regardless of their “wantedness”.
“And by all means keep moving the goal posts wherever you would like as you try to keep the focus off of your own abortion.”
There’s no reason to “keep the focus” off my abortion. There isn’t much else to talk about. Questions? Ask away. I still think it’s curious that the *only* lives people shed tears over in this forum are those that still exist in somebody else’s body. Curious, indeed. Since I’ve been psychoanalyzed to a t, it’s fair to wonder whether your desire to push motherhood on unwilling women is some sort of attempt to punish your own mother for her shortcomings.
Cheri,
You’ve just built, erected, and disassembled down your own strawman, If you’re done playing with your toys, feel free to contribute something that makes sense.
Megan, I think it’s fair to say that we have also shed tears over you. We do mourn your dead baby. But we also mourn your hard heart, and your dead spirit, as you come back here day after day after day to defend your decision to kill.
Do you ever wonder what she might have looked like?
Megan says:
“I still think it’s curious that the *only* lives people shed tears over in this forum are those that still exist in somebody else’s body. Curious, indeed.”
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Megan, I think it’s “curious, indeed” that you feel confident enough to make generalizations about what we shed tears over based only on what you see posted on this narrowly focused blog.
I guess you missed the tears we shed over the toddler that was run over in China. Oh wait, you posted there, you just ignored the toddler altogether. So much for your interest in the lives of those that don’t “still exist in somebody else’s body”.
https://www.jillstanek.com/2011/10/life-links-10-17-11/
That “she” could just has been a he, or an in-between, or a miscarriage, by the way. Why are you fantasizing about something that lived inside of me–a total stranger on the Internet–for less than six weeks? Kind of creepy, no? I probably think about “what could have been” as much as you think about what you would have done with a Phd (that is, unless you’re having pangs of buyer’s remorse).
I am not fantasizing, only mourning, and if you can’t figure out why moms who kill their babies and then proudly preach the fact would elicit a response from me, a mom who miscarried one and birthed three, then I don’t know if your heart is anything but stone.
Megan, I wish you could see my three. LOL! Blaise scored the winning free throw the other night! Emmy has to bend down to hug me, and she’s only 13! When I scold Payton, he rolls his eyes at me and says, “mom! That’s how I rroll!” (as only an 8 year old can). All of these children were gifts, and they would be no matter how they were conceived.
I got to be at home 10 years full time with them. Another gift. Buyer’s remorse? Megan, they taught me how to love.
Please get in touch with Carla. I think of you often.
PS–I work very closely with lots of PhDs….I’m not missing much! LOL!
Megan, you have stated that you are against forcing women to undergo invasive procedures. What are you doing to protect women who are being forced to undergo invasive abortions? And why won’t you condemn the degradation of pregnant women?