Stanek weekend question: Is it helpful for a pro-choice mom to tell kids about her abortion?
Sometimes pro-life post-abortive mothers or fathers decide they can help stop abortion by sharing their testimony, in which case their children usually have to find out. But it is presented as a tragedy.
Sometimes pro-life post-abortive mothers or fathers sit their children down and tell them. But it is presented as a loss to the family.
There is a new thought among post-abortive abortion proponents that they should tell their children about their abortions - in order to promote abortion. Quoting Cosmopolitan, March 21:
The women in these groups are concerned about the future of reproductive rights, for their daughters and sons. What choices will they have? They said, “Maybe we should be telling our kids about our abortions. We need to share this with the next generation.”
I can’t imagine, generally speaking, that this is a helpful way to send positive pro-abortion messaging to one’s own children.
Your thoughts?
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
How creepy is that, to tell your kids about their siblings that you killed, utterly regret-free?
It worked in this case: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/08/opinion/my-mothers-abortion.html?_r=0
But there, the kids were subject to pro-choice indoctrination from a very early age, and were already pro-choice before they were told about their parents’ previous abortion.
I know an older women who told her 2 daughters about her regret free abortion. 2 Of the 3 have aborted and the other is pro life.
Heather, the math doesn’t add up in your post…did you mean to type “3 daughters”? Or are you insinuating the 2 who learned about the abortions aborted their children and one who was aborted is ProLife because she was aborted?
Let kids enjoy childhood. Giving them visions of what abortion is will give them nightmares. Something like in one of the SAW movies or Nightmare on Elm St. Childhood goes by too fast in this day in age. Too much gore today as it is.
I can’t even count how many people I’ve spoken to are pro-choice because someone they know – “a great person!!” – has had an abortion.
It’s as if they can’t quite deal with the fact that their loved one would do anything so wrong, and so they resort to adopting the position that abortion, therefore, must be right. I don’t know if there’s a psychological term for that, but a lot of people think that way.
I can imagine that a child would especially feel conflicted about a parent killing a sibling. (Do most of them turn into Mark Ruffalo’s? We know one, at least, turned into a sociopath who threatened the lives of pro-lifers.) Telling children about their abortions might bring people to their side, but it only adds to the idea that their argument isn’t based on any kind of rational thought about the preborn child or the act of abortion itself.
Sorry Ann Marie..yes her 3 daughters..gotta have my coffee before typing
Another way to add fears to a child.
What a sad, tragic thing. The abortion marketers love the old bloodlust of ancient child sacrifice. And so they will do anything to promote…more abortions!
Ad they market their foolish destructive ideas to incredibly gullible women/men who simply accept and believe the latest “fashionable” ideas….!
Of course she waited until the girls were older and sexually active.
I was 8 when I first saw a photo of an aborted baby. I didn’t know what abortion was until then. It really horrified me. I remember about a year or so later asking my mom if she had ever had an abortion and secretly being afraid she would say yes. My mom told me no, she had never had an abortion and never would. She had been pregnant 4 times and praise God, all 4 of her children were alive.
I think if I had found out that my mom had aborted, even if she was pro-life, it would have made me afraid and hurt. I would have thought “That could have been ME! Why am I alive and my sister/brother is dead?”
I think each pro-life post-abortive mom knows what her children can handle. At least when the mom is pro-life there is regret and an acknowledgement that that sibling was important. With a pro-abortion mom though there is a shrugging of the shoulders and the attitude “Meh. Could’ve been you. You wouldn’t have known and we wouldn’t have missed you. You’re here now so who cares?”
2 of my friends who had abortions and are still kinda pro-choice “I’ll never have another abortion but I don’t want to take away that choice for other women. Still, I hate abortion!” say they will never tell their kids about their abortions. They are horrified thinking their children might one day find out. They instinctively know their children will take it personally knowing they too could have been aborted. The one daughter actually WAS scheduled to be aborted before I talked her mom out of it. My friend told me she’ll never tell her daughter about that either.
Really going to depend on the individuals involved. I will say this though. If they are young enough that they don’t know what abortion is before hand, they’ll probably just assume that mommy knows best and be okay with it. However, if they already know what abortion is, they will view the news in the light of their preexisting views.
This seems ludicrous – trying to explain abortion to a tyke. Then it started to make more sense if it was hidden as part of the general sex-education-talk-about-birds-and-bees to young teens, who are learning new things.
Perhaps, rather than frowning on the practice, PL should talk specifically about RESPONSIBILITY in sex (and especially how UN-macho it is to force girls into extremely difficult places) AND HOW UN-MACHO IT IS TO KILL YOUR BABY, just because you want to score with a girl.
This is one of the dumber ideas I’ve heard.
A girl id met in SNM indeed told her kids about her abortion and we all went to protest together. She has repennted and she wants her graphic images. She wants them to know about what a horrible sin divorce is.
Should have said in above post she wants her kids to see graphic abortion signs. She is teaching them to wait on sex for marriage.
presented as a positive? I would call that child abuse. Presented as a family tragedy, at a proper maturity when a child can receive the information and feel safe, I can see ways it could be helpful. I don’t think any woman should feel it is “necessary,” ever.
It’s as if they can’t quite deal with the fact that their loved one would do anything so wrong, and so they resort to adopting the position that abortion, therefore, must be right. I don’t know if there’s a psychological term for that, but a lot of people think that way.
I think this is similar to abuse, too. Stockholm syndrome is a name for a pattern of coping with a traumatic situation .
The child loves the parent so much that they think what s/he does and says is for their own good. Like when a parent tells a child after a slap across the face, “My dad did it to me, and I turned out just fine.”
Heather: Of course she waited until the girls were older and sexually active.
John McDonell: This seems ludicrous – trying to explain abortion to a tyke. Then it started to make more sense if it was hidden as part of the general sex-education-talk-about-birds-and-bees to young teens, who are learning new things.
I agree – while some women indeed “are concerned about the future of reproductive rights,” what good would it do to talk to kids who are too young to understand?
If you read the Cosmopolitan article, you’ll see that “talking to kids” is not at all the main thrust of the women being interviewed.
We also found that women’s attitudes toward abortion became more accepting after the book-club discussion. The change was even more profound among the women who were initially the most judgmental. Talking about it emphasizes the complexity of our reproductive lives.
“Sharing their stories with the next generation” need not mean talking to little kids. Finding out that your mom or another woman had an abortion can make a difference to “the next generation,” at age 15 or 20, or 50, for that matter….
I have trouble believing that such parents are actually telling their children about “abortion” – more likely they are telling their children about “women’s rights” and all the adult fears and concerns that compel people to think that we have to pit mothers against children in a survival of the fittest. I’m guessing that most of these parents aren’t having a bird’n’bees talk that includes a description of an abortion procedure.
Is it “helpful?”
Define helpful.
“I’m guessing that most of these parents aren’t having a bird’n’bees talk that includes a description of an abortion procedure.”
From what I can tell from friends who were raised similarly it ends up being some euphemism-laden conversation about how mom wasn’t ready for a baby and so she had this magical procedure full of sunshine and fairy dust and all her worries went away and then she was able to have the kids she has now!!!
I honestly think if they actually graphically described abortion to a young kid they’d end up having the opposite effect of what they intended. Abortion was described extremely graphically (including wonderful pictures!) to me when I was four or five or maybe younger and all it did was make me think abortion is awful (of course, my mother didn’t claim to be pro-choice but hypocritically talked about how she wished she had one, she was more “pro-life until it affects me”, lol). I don’t think a small child could not be horrified pretty viscerally by an abortion procedure, kids see fetuses as babies, they aren’t going to be too impressed with “for the greater good” arguments and body autonomy.
If you read the Cosmopolitan article, you’ll see that “talking to kids” is not at all the main thrust of the women being interviewed.
The main thrust of the Cosmopolitan article is to desperately try to get everyone, including children, to see abortion as something other than what it really is — that being the killing of innocent humans by not so innocent humans.
My older sister had an abortion. She has three adult children and I don’t think she has told them. They lost their father awhile ago so I don’t know what good it would do to tell them.
I told the story about my mother’s horrific saline abortion. My younger sister rationalizes it by saying we were going through a hard time which was true but that doesn’t justify scalding a developing human being to death. My brother is okay with it too. He used to be a volunteer for Planned Parenthood. I suspect he was a deathscort but he is certainly is not going to tell me that. As for me, well I think you can guess how I feel
We keep on hearing rhst only religious fanatics and fringe types oppose abortion. If this is so why is it that after all these years our opposition is still trying to legitimize it,?Yes I am sure there are nice people that have had abortions but that still doesn’t make it right.
I stopped reading Cosmo years ago. Too many articles treating women like sex crazed consumers and no substance to the rest..
Wow Phillymiss, I must have missed those stories. I’m sorry so many members of your family are missing due to abortion. That is so very sad!! I’m glad you at least are standing for life!
One of the ladies in SNM is African American. Same thing in her family. I believe her 2 sister had abortions. She had 2. One illegal and one legal. She told me her family wont even speak to her because she wouldnt vote for Obama.
I can’t imagine there is a positive way to present abortion to one’s own children. “You should be lucky we (I) didn’t abort you, then where would you be?” “Ok, okay, you’re right- We SHOULD’VE aborted your older brother!” I don’t think so….
heather says:
March 22, 2014 at 8:39 am
I know an older women who told her 2 daughters about her regret free abortion. 2 Of the 3 have aborted and the other is pro life.
I thought this meant: she had three children and one was aborted and that was the one that was now pro-life, while the other two committed abortions.
ie: all babies sentenced to being aborted are of course anti-abortion pro-life. Non-aborted still want the “Choice”.
CoA…no the mom aborted and told her 3 grown daughters about it. 2 of the 3 have had abortions while the other one is against it.
Theyve since all had their tubes tied.
I read this whole comment thread…. for the very first time, I actually wanted to hear what Reality and Merit and Blue Velvet and the rest of the pro-aborts have to say about this.
<crickets chirp, chirp>
I hear you, Del. I figured Christine would comment on this post for sure, since she said she’s fighting to keep abortion legal for her daughter’s sake.
You want a comment Del? OK, I’ll give you a comment.
I don’t think ‘either side’ really need to discuss abortion with young kiddies. It’s only those who have a propensity for indoctrinating their young children in case they might make a choice of their own which is contrary who start talking about and trying to embed certain things.
Why should the ‘I had an abortion’ talk be any different to ‘I gave a baby up for adoption’ or ‘Why I left your father’ talks.
Some of you seem to have the attitude that discussing abortion with ones offspring is trying to sell a negative. It isn’t. It’s part of the entire womens rights and freedoms concept.
“I don’t think ‘either side’ really need to discuss abortion with young kiddies. ”
Which is something I agree with, my kids certainly know nothing about the subject and I’m keeping it that way as long as I can. But a lot of people have different ages they think is appropriate for these subjects, and I think it’s interesting that it’s “indoctrinating” if you don’t agree with the side that the parent is presenting.
I think it’s interesting that it’s “indoctrinating” if you don’t agree with the side that the parent is presenting. – indeed LDPL, which is why I said what I did.
Doug says: March 22, 2014 at 1:46 pm
If you read the Cosmopolitan article, you’ll see that “talking to kids” is not at all the main thrust of the women being interviewed.
We also found that women’s attitudes toward abortion became more accepting after the book-club discussion. The change was even more profound among the women who were initially the most judgmental. Talking about it emphasizes the complexity of our reproductive lives.
“Sharing their stories with the next generation” need not mean talking to little kids. Finding out that your mom or another woman had an abortion can make a difference to “the next generation,” at age 15 or 20, or 50, for that matter….
******
Well this is it. Why are people talking about “tykes” and “young kiddies”?
Older kids can understand their mothers’ stories and situations, just as the mothers’ peers can.
Well what age do you think it is appropriate?
It won’t happen if you keep waiting for “just the right time.”
As I became more active in the prolife movement I shared my story with my two eldest children. They already knew they had siblings in heaven. They knew fetal development. They had seen ultrasounds and heard the heartbeats of their siblings. And they heard and understand that now I fight AGAINST the evil that is the abortion. Because I explained the devastation. I explained how it affected my life. And they stand with me.
I am waiting for some post abortive mothers who don’t regret it. They need to comment here and tell us whether they told their children about their abortions. or not.
What did they say?
Otherwise we are just guessing here.
How scary would it be to have your mom tell you that she killed your baby sister or brother if she didn’t regret it? How gross would it be to hear her blame it on you……. claiming she did it to give you a better life?
There’s no end to the sickness of abortion supporters: NHS trusts in the UK have been found to be heating hospitals by incinerating aborted and miscarried babies.
Thank you, Reality. You have induced me to a couple of thoughts:
1) Parents have a desire and a duty to teach their children all of the very best things, to prepare them for a happy life to come. Much of this has to do with faith and morals and social integrity with our acquaintances, neighbors, and loved ones. It is called “education,” or “handing down our culture,” and public schools are prohibited from doing education in this way. (This is why I urge for the revolution of Separation of Education and State.)
This sort of “indoctrination” is one of most loving thing things parents can give to her child. And when half the culture vehemently disagrees on whether children should live, or Negros should be slaves, or gays should be married…. then it is important to teach your children these difficult lessons when they are young. Otherwise, someone else will teach your children something that will make them less whole than you hope for them.
2) Reality wrote: “Some of you seem to have the attitude that discussing abortion with ones offspring is trying to sell a negative. It isn’t. It’s part of the entire womens rights and freedoms concept.”
That is the subtext of this whole question. We know that abortion is wrong. We know that any person who stops to reflect a moment on the dignity of life and the value of one’s own life would realize that all life is valuable and all death is tragic. And children are very capable of this sort of honest reflection.
Most women are silent about their abortions because she knows it was wrong. Even if she does not care about herself, she knows that the rest of reality does care. Most pro-aborts believe that this reality can be changed, and should be changed. (Pro-lifers know that abortion will always be wrong, the way that cheating on one’s spouse will always be wrong.)
So here are some of the questions this thread hopes to open:
– What is the real-world experience of post-abortive pro-aborts who tell their children about the siblings they never knew?
– Do the pro-aborts hide their shame, and validate what the pro-lifers have said all along?
– Do the pro-aborts live their faith, and tell their children about the glorious goodness of abortion?
– How do the children respond? Are they repelled by the news, and separate somewhat from mother? Do they rush to have abortions themselves at the first difficulty? Perhaps even both, as good and evil writhe in their psyches?
My guess is that the most common story is the one in which a mother never reveals her own abortion history. But she’s the one who drives her teenager to the clinic to kill her grandchild, and they never talk about that also. And so the cycle of abuse persists as it always does — in silence.
@Sydney – My mother had a saline abortion when I was about 11. I remember her coming home from the hospital crying. She really did not want to do it but my father convinced her — we were going through a very hard time financially and my parents eventually lost our home. Anyway, I remember her coming home lying on the bed crying. Her stomach was horribly red and swollen. She said she saw the baby (a little boy) in a bucket with his skin burned off. I remember this affected me deeply, so I thought of a name of him — Simon. Later my Dad said that they should have had that baby, but it’s too late now.
I stopped reading Cosmo years ago. Too many articles treating women like sex crazed consumers and no substance to the rest..
It’s gibberish, like most women’s magazines. I never read them.
And when half the culture vehemently disagrees on whether children should live, or Negros should be slaves, or gays should be married….
“Negros” That word is now considered derogatory, if you didn’t know.
She told me her family wont even speak to her because she wouldnt vote for Obama.
I don’t even say anything about it. Why open yourself to ridicule and scorn? I told my daughter how I feel about Barky (she is somewhat sympathetic) and I have one good friend, a black woman at work, who knows I don’t like him. As for my other family members, they are hard-core Obama supporters. I mentioned that I didn’t hate Sarah Palin and my father told me I was “fat.”
phillymiss says:
And when half the culture vehemently disagrees on whether children should live, or Negros should be slaves, or gays should be married…. “Negros” That word is now considered derogatory, if you didn’t know.
I can’t keep up with the fads. But when the folks who supported slavery were trying to be respectful, they said “Negros.” Just as the folks who support abortion insist on saying “choice.” These seem like the proper words for the context, and also why the victims of slavery and abortion are right to be offended by these words.
I am so sorry about your brother. Did your parents’ marriage survive the abortion, phillymiss?
Yep, they are still married, Del, they have been for fifty years. But they never talk about the AB.
It is called “education,” or “handing down our culture,” and public schools are prohibited from doing education in this way. – well no, they teach facts and reality, not some anachronistic fabled ‘culture’. Can you even elucidate which culture you speak of?
And when half the culture vehemently disagrees on whether children should live, or blacks should be slaves, or gays should be married….- that’s not the case.
then it is important to teach your children these difficult lessons when they are young. – before they can think for themselves and make up their own minds do you mean?
Otherwise, someone else will teach your children something that will make them less whole than you hope for them. – what, like facts and truth?
We know that abortion is wrong. – that is not correct. You think it is wrong.
Most women are silent about their abortions because she knows it was wrong. – that is not correct either. For most women it simply isn’t anything significant enough to make anything of. They had an abortion because it was the best choice for them at that time and they would do so again if necessary.
Even if she does not care about herself – she does care about herself. That’s part of the reasons why she had an abortion.
Pro-lifers know that abortion will always be wrong, the way that cheating on one’s spouse will always be wrong. – what brings you to come out with this stuff? Wishful thinking?
– What is the real-world experience of post-abortive pro-aborts who tell their children about the siblings they never knew? – for most this is an exaggerated concept. It doesn’t manifest as ‘siblings they never knew’.
– Do the pro-aborts hide their shame, and validate what the pro-lifers have said all along? – shame? What shame? The shame that you want them to feel?
– Do the pro-aborts live their faith, and tell their children about the glorious goodness of abortion? – no, they tell their children the facts and of the glorious goodness of women not being subjugated.
– How do the children respond? Are they repelled by the news, and separate somewhat from mother? – a few may, most would love their mothers more than that and understand the circumstances. Do they rush to have abortions themselves at the first difficulty? – who knows. Perhaps even both, as good and evil writhe in their psyches? – this whole casting of your thinking onto others isn’t a viable concept.
My guess is that the most common story is the one in which a mother never reveals her own abortion history. But she’s the one who drives her teenager to the clinic to kill her grandchild, and they never talk about that also. And so the cycle of abuse persists as it always does — in silence. – abuse? What abuse? I think your guess is wrong. I think it would more likely be a case of ‘it’s ok, I had one too. It’s nothing to be ashamed.’
Reality says:
We know that abortion is wrong. – that is not correct. You think it is wrong. -
====================
No…. We know abortion is wrong. We know why it is wrong. And we know why people like you are so grossly mistaken about reality.
Killing innocent human life belongs to a category of acts that we can be certain about in our moral knowledge. There are no “opinions” here. Only certainly right and mistakenly wrong.
We know abortion is wrong. – no, you think it’s wrong.
We know why it is wrong. – no, you have your own reasons/beliefs/opinions for why you think it is wrong.
And we know why people like you are so grossly mistaken about reality. – my not aligning with your beliefs and opinions is a very long way from being grossly mistaken about reality. I operate from a factual position.
Killing innocent human life belongs to a category of acts that we can be certain about in our moral knowledge. There are no “opinions” here. Only certainly right and mistakenly wrong. – whose moral knowledge? Again, nothing more than your beliefs and opinions.
Reality says:
March 24, 2014 at 9:15 pm
And we know why people like you are so grossly mistaken about reality. – my not aligning with your beliefs and opinions is a very long way from being grossly mistaken about reality. I operate from a factual position.
=========================
Fact: Human children in the womb are human beings.
Fact: As human beings, they deserve protection of their human rights — most specifically, the right to life.
Fact: You do not respect the human rights of human children in the womb.
The only “fact” on which you base your moral position is the fact that mothers find pregnancy to be inconvenient. You ignore the fact that children are even more inconvenient after they are born, and that some people find you to be inconvenient even in your maturity. Yet you insist that those who are born must have their human rights protected, no matter how inconvenient they are.
You have “facts,” but you do not have a rational basis for denying human rights to human children in the womb. We can see this.
Fact: women are existent persons.
Fact: as existent persons they should not be diminished compared to a potential person.
Fact: You do not respect the human rights of women.
The only “fact” on which you base your moral position is the fact that mothers find pregnancy to be inconvenient. – this is not a factual statement.
You ignore the fact that children are even more inconvenient after they are born, – are they? Why do you claim such?
and that some people find you to be inconvenient even in your maturity. – you and me both probably Del :-)
Yet you insist that those who are born must have their human rights protected, no matter how inconvenient they are. – and you insist that a fetus has rights above everyone else.
If women were truly comfortable with the “OK-ness” of abortion, I (and other 40 Days for Life campaign leaders) would not get those carefully written tomes from them explaining why we should not be praying outside of abortion centers. We would be ignored.
I told my young adult children about my abortion of their half-sibling (after telling my husband before we married). I did not tell my parents and my siblings only found out after both parents had died. Abortion is an act of unspeakable violence, compounded by the fact that the victim is one’s own child. Abortion would not be condoned or even tolerated by a civilized people – which doesn’t say much for people nowadays. :-(
Barb says:
March 25, 2014 at 8:57 pm
“If women were truly comfortable with the “OK-ness” of abortion, I (and other 40 Days for Life campaign leaders) would not get those carefully written tomes from them explaining why we should not be praying outside of abortion centers. We would be ignored.”
Heh – yeah, right. Like if people were “comfortable with the ‘OK-ness’ of not killing all the Jews,” there wouldn’t be the current neo-Nazi writings and sympathizers. Oh Please…..
With a pro-abortion mom though there is a shrugging of the shoulders and the attitude “Meh. Could’ve been you. You wouldn’t have known and we wouldn’t have missed you. You’re here now so who cares?”
That, in not so many words, is the message I got from my father when I told him I am pro-life because so many other embryos were aborted (in general) and I just don’t understand why I live and they didn’t, we were the same, why was it legal to kill them. It was all very abstract, something more personal would have been even more painful. Even so he was annoyed. It seems to me pro-choice parents think their children should not have opinions in the matter, because it’s none of our business and parents know best anyway. What we actually think and feel simply isn’t important to them. It never was. If it had, they wouldn’t be pro-choice.
So it would be good if pro-choice parents told their children what they did instead of sweeping everything under the rug. Yes, maybe their living offspring will grow up believing it was ok for parents to have a right of life and death over them, but that will probably happen anyway. It is better to hear the truth than just speeches about the hypothetical rights of anonymous women. At least everyone will know where they stand.
Phillymiss: As for my other family members, they are hard-core Obama supporters. I mentioned that I didn’t hate Sarah Palin and my father told me I was “fat.”
Phillymiss, at that, did you just have to shake your head or something? ; )
Crazy stuff happens in all families, and that one reminds me of an “Archie Bunker” type remark. Just have to laugh…. (hopefully).
Reality says:
March 25, 2014 at 7:45 pm
Yet you insist that those who are born must have their human rights protected, no matter how inconvenient they are. – and you insist that a fetus has rights above everyone else.
=========================
The same rights as everyone else.
It is natural for a human person to be a fetus, an infant, and adolescent, and adult, a parent, a grandparent, an elderly senior…. Every person, including you, deserves to be protected from anyone who would harm you at any stage of your natural human development. And most especially, we should protect you during those times when you cannot defend yourself — such as when you are very young, or very old, or asleep at night.
You seek to deny the human rights of an existing person in deference to a gestating fetus.
When a woman becomes pregnant you demand that she sacrifice anything and everything in deference to the fetus.
Maybe you should delve a little deeper into the whole biological species concept.
You are a person. You were a human person when you were a fetus, and that is why you are a human person now.
The natural relationship between a mother and her unborn child is not one of ”host and parasite.” It is “mother and child.” A mother has a natural duty to care for her child, just as her mother had the natural duty to care for her when she was a child, and so on goes the human race.
Murder, on the other hand, is not natural. You do not advocate for natural human behavior, reality. Your ethic is inhuman. Urging a mother to murder her child is the most inhuman of all.
You are a person. – thank you, so are you. As are women.
You were a human person when you were a fetus – no, I may have been human but I was not a person.
and that is why you are a human person now. – being a human fetus led to me becoming a human person yes.
The natural relationship between a mother and her unborn child is not one of ”host and parasite.” – I don’t like that terminology very much either but a technical argument could be made…
It is “mother and child.” – after birth, yes.
A mother has a natural duty to care for her child – duty or instinct?
just as her mother had the natural duty to care for her when she was a child, and so on goes the human race. – ditto.
Murder, on the other hand, is not natural. – now there’s a philosophical debate to be had.
You do not advocate for natural human behavior, reality. – I do actually, more than you do I feel.
Your ethic is inhuman. – quite the opposite.
Urging a mother to murder her child is the most inhuman of all. – I don’t do that.
I finally see the mental gymnastics you use to strip some people of their personhood.
Your strategy against children in the womb is essentially the same as the Europeans used to enslave Africans, the Nazis used to exterminate Jews, and Americans used to wipe out the Native Americans, and the Moslems are using to sterilize their lands of Christians. It is the rationale of every genocide:
“You are different from me in some way, and weaker. I may kill you, if I like.”
That insanity reaches its apex in a mother who wants to kill her own child, and a society that permits it.
No Del, I use facts’n’science.
I don’t have a ‘strategy against children in the womb’, neither does ayone else. There is no valid comparison between abortion and the horrors you cite.
Triple pike with a twist from you there ;-)