Stay away from sexual sins.
Other sins that people commit don’t affect their bodies the same way sexual sins do.
People who sin sexually sin against their own bodies.
~ I Corinthians 6:18, God’s Word translation
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Unfortunately too many people view getting someone in bed with you as a fulfillment of a conquest. Furthermore, they are spurred on in this sexual mentality by popular novels, movies, and television. They do not see the pitfalls in the so called sexual revolution. Being a porn star becomes a career ambition.
The message that sex is for two people who have pledged their lives within marriage for its pro-creative and unitive nature cannot be conveyed too strongly. What seems limiting is actually liberating.
Part of the message from Our Lady of Fatima:
“More souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason.”
“Certain fashions will be introduced that will offend Our Lord very much.”
“Woe to women lacking in modesty.”
I’m guessing many of the commercials along with the half-time show will have to be turned off in my home during the Super Bowl today.
So drugs, alcohol, gross over-eating and adventure sports are ok?
I’m wondering how stuff like shooting heroin and such falls into this. I do agree that sexual sins have some major consequence that other sins don’t tend to have (STDs, babies getting abandoned/aborted/born into bad homes/etc, heartbreak) but I think that drug abuse can cause just as much damage. The only Bible verse I know that mentions substance abuse is the “don’t get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery” thing, but I might be missing some.
Reality I think that the reason sexual sins are seen as so much worse is because they can involve creating new life as well as the family unit being seen as kind of a reflection of God’s love for humans on earth, so messing around with that is a big deal. I can see that as an argument that makes sense. I still think that substance abuse within families can cause the same issues though.
I pretty much agree with you LDPL.
I think it’s always been the case that some people simply can’t cope with even thinking that someone may be having more pleasure than them.
Well sure there are some busy-bodies that are like that, but most people who get worried about promiscuity are genuinely concerned. Like, if my son or daughter decided to be promiscuous when they are older, I would be concerned not because I’m a mean old dad and don’t want them to be fun, I would worry about them causing themselves emotional and physical issues. I feel the same way about drugs and alcohol.
You’re close, Jack. The thing is fidelity and infidelity in marriage is depicted in the Bible as a direct parallel to fidelity and infidelity to God.
Lol well I was close! Give me a break I’m new at this whole Christian thing.
I think what confuses me about this verse Hans is because it’s about how sexual sins are against your body. It seems to me that there are many things that damage your body just as much as sexual sins. If it were about your spirituality or emotional well-being I could see the point better, but it seems to be drug abuse in particular, and maybe some other body-damaging things would be just as bad as sexual sins. But I might be misunderstanding something here.
That’s okay. At least you didn’t hike the ball over the head of your quarterback in the first play of the Super Bowl.
I have no television. No Super Bowl for me this year. :( Go Seahawks!
Yeah, I hadn’t realized you relocated from Miami. Actually, I like the rain.
I do believe sexual sins are more harmful for what they do to the mind than the body. Drugs are close because they make you stupid.
I don’t mind rain. Florida has tons of rain. I’m not liking the cold though. And Oregon isn’t even that cold, lol. It’s like 40 usually during the winter. I’m freezing to death.
Well, sexual sins sure do damage the mind. But drugs do too, particularly opiates. Opiates literally rewire your brain to stop producing neurotransmitters, so you literally have no pain tolerance (emotional or physical) right when you get off of them. A lot of heroin users relapse once they get off maintenance methadone or suboxone, or end up committing suicide. And some never get off the maintenance opioids. I think the reason my depression is as bad as it is today is partially due to how much I messed up my brain chemistry as a teenager. I think that the mental damage of drugs can be as bad as the mental damage of promiscuity.
I missed your earlier comment. We agree about the emotional and mental effects of drugs. But messing with our relationship with God, or a sense of right and wrong, if you will, is like weakening the foundation of your life. Everything else can go to pot (unintended pun) afterward.
You know, I think most people don’t realize why the pro-life movement is so naturally fueled by Christian belief. The whole process of being and becoming a better Christian is tied to and/or represented by human reproduction.
From being begotten as a child of God, to growing as a Christian (like an embryo), to being “born from the dead” at the Resurrection.
Pondering all this makes me doubly enthusiastic about being both pro-life and pro-seeking God’s Will.
“You know, I think most people don’t realize why the pro-life movement is so naturally fueled by Christian belief. The whole process of being and becoming a better Christian is tied to and/or represented by human reproduction. From being begotten as a child of God, to growing as a Christian (like an embryo), to being “born from the dead” at the Resurection.”
I guess this makes sense. I do think it’s 100% possible to be a secular pro-lifer though, and I probably won’t argue from a religious perspective. But I think I was having a lot of trouble over the last year finding a reason for why life was valuable. Pro-choicers would say “why does it matter if a fetus ever gets to see the light of day or not?” and I couldn’t answer them, mostly because I am waking up every morning and wanting to swallow a bullet because I can’t see much reason to live anymore. The last year has been ridiculously bad, I don’t think anyone will ever understand how unhappy I am. So I’ll give the Christian thing a shot, if I can convince myself that my life isn’t mine to take maybe I’ll be able to see some meaning in life.
I don’t know how to translate that into pro-life viewpoints that would mean anything to pro-choicers though, it’s more of a personal and selfish thing. I wish I could translate that into a secular argument for them to ponder over. I’ve always argued that people need a chance to choose their own lives paths, that the unborn babies don’t get that, so I think that argument still works. If and adult commits suicide it’s horrible, but it’s their choice, but a baby never gets the option to make a choice for themselves.
That’s why many of us, though we’re pleased to have secular pro-lifers on board, find it hard to understand their viewpoint. If we’re not really worth more than a bug except in how interestingly we’re constructed, how can you match the enthusiasm of someone who believes we were made to be something like God Himself, and have the potential to put Superman to shame in whatever the Next Life will be.?
It generally has to do with rational self-interest and self-determination. Rational self-interest, because we were all fetuses and we are all human, so we should want all fetuses and humans protected for the good of our species. Self-determination is because we all choose how to live, and taking that away from someone else before they are even born is horrendous. And many secularists see humans as better than animals, because they see the human species as more developed and all. I get secular viewpoints very well, it’s a rational argument. I just couldn’t seem to find meaning for life with them anymore. I still can’t, but I’m gonna give Christianity a shot before I pack it in lol.
You’ll find believers aren’t such a bad lot. Like with everyone, it’s just a matter of what you believe. Believing that life is worth it is the best start. Don’t lose that belief, Jack.
I never thought believers were a bad lot, I just can’t seem to convince myself to believe. I guess I’ll try though. Gotta do something.
40 degrees?! You’ll find me and my family having lemonade on our porch when it hits 40 here! =)
If you find the object (of your current disbelief?) worthy of belief, you may be closer than you think.
I feel sad when I see people misuse the God given gift of their body, health, and sexuality and wish I could put John Paul II’s Theology of the Body in their hands.
“You know, I think most people don’t realize why the pro-life movement is so naturally fueled by Christian belief. The whole process of being and becoming a better Christian is tied to and/or represented by human reproduction. From being begotten as a child of God, to growing as a Christian (like an embryo), to being “born from the dead” at the Resurrection.”
What a profound thought Hans!
Jack: What a struggle is going on for your soul between good and evil … that is God and the devil. You do see where those words come from. =)
Knowing 3 people who committed suicide I can tell you that it affected their families quite badly. Please keep your children in mind esp. as you now live in a pro-euthanasia area. A slip of the lip could sink your ship of life. Praying for you!
See the Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel and also Rev 12: 7-9. That will stop evil thoughts and give you a moment to collect yourself.
“Saint Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, thrust into Hell, Satan and all the other evil spirits, who prowl throughout the world, seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.”
Oh, Jack. I’m so sorry to hear you’ve had such a rough year. I wish you could feel how much God loves you. But even if you never have the consolation of feeling that love emotionally, please gaze upon a crucifix and know in your head, if not your heart, how much love it would take to go through what Jesus went through for you.
Jack, you are a unique, one-of-a-kind, never to be repeated human being. Just like all the unborn. Your life is infinitely precious. Most people naturally value something that is rare more than something that is common. And each individual human being is the most rare thing of all. There is now and only shall ever be one Jack. Please take care and know that I am praying for you.
Lol Lifejoy people up here have teased me because I wear a winter jacket and gloves and hat when it’s like fifty. I can’t help that I grew up and lived my entire life somewhere that it rarely got below sixty five!
Thanks Patty and Lrning. I’ll be fine I am just struggling with my stupid brain that won’t work like brains are supposed to work. At church on Sunday they were discussin how the pastor personally believes, based on scripture, that God considers honest searching more legitimate than parroting belief, and he thinks some agnostics are more “Christian” than people born and raised in Christianity who never thought about it and just go with it because that was how they were raised. The casual Christian mindset he called it, and their actions don’t follow what true believers should. Hollow belief verses honest doubt. That made me feel better. I just wish I didn’t feel so terrible all the time.
Don’t feel so bad, Jack. You could be a Broncos fan. Or you could be someone like me whose favorite teams lost six times without a win over the last four decades.
Hi Jack. I am so glad you are going to church. The pastor’s message sounds like a good one to me. Jesus talked about how the Pharisee were like “whitened grave sites” who didn’t truly believe God but just followed traditional religious rituals and did not truly know or love God. I have been praying for you. I have especially been praying like Lrning for you to know how much God loves you, how valuable and precious you are to Him. We will keep praying for you Jack for God to heal your hurting heart and soul. That you will know your life is definitely worth living, that you matter and are making a positive difference in this world. God’s best to you and to your precious children.
“Knowing 3 people who committed suicide I can tell you that it affected their families quite badly. Please keep your children in mind esp. as you now live in a pro-euthanasia area. A slip of the lip could sink your ship of life. Praying for you!”
Lol well we aren’t Belgium, even the Pacific Northwest hasn’t started euthanizing physically healthy 25-year-olds. That’s one weird thing about this state though, is all in all mental healthcare seems to be taken a lot more seriously up here than in Florida, but most people seem pretty pro-assisted suicide and there are very few abortion restrictions (I think NARAL rated Oregon and Washington “A”s :( ). I do think I seem to fit in better in some ways up here (the small towns seem to be pretty conservative but not where km at) but I don’t like that mindset at all. I think assisted suicide is a fairly complicated issue but abortion isn’t complicated at all.
Yeah he did mention Pharisees Prolifer L, and he seems to think that God judges people harsher for knowing better (as in having a good grasp if Christian belief) but acting in an unloving or uncharitable manner, than people who genuinely try but mess up a lot from lack of knowledge or other issues (maybe mental illness would fit here). I don’t know, I much prefer his message and it seems to reflect Jesus a lot more than the sermons I’ve heard previously in other churches.
I do want to thank everyone for not judging me harshly for having suicidal ideation. I’ve had issues with this my entire life. I remember thinking about killing myself when I was even as young as seven or eight. I remember very vividly, I remember thinking that God made a mistake in letting me be born, that I ruined my mother’s life and I caused my father to be a sinner, and it would be better if I were dead. These thoughts have always been really overwhelming and intrusive even as a little kid. I had self-harm issues when I was a little kid, and I half-heartedly attempted to OD when I was like fifteen I think, and I tried to hang myself when I was nineteen. I just have always been a deeply unhappy person and struggle to see any worth in myself or reason to be alive, but I really am trying to do better for my kids. So I really appreciate the support and prayers and sorry I’ve been commenting here for years and this is still going on. I hope everyone doesn’t get too sick of me. I really do appreciate everyone’s patience and support and care. It still surprises me, I always expect people to write me off quickly. I don’t think any of you will ever understand what it means to me to have people who care and bother to write a nice comment or say something encouraging and supportive, even if it’s “just the internet”.
I know this is “just the internet” Jack but I want you to know in spite of our butting heads here occasionally at Jill’s that I really do love you like a brother or a son (agape). There has never been intent on my part to judge you too harshly and I apologize for any times you may have felt that I have been harsh. We’ve had quite the conversations on here!
Thanks for being so open in your posts. Your last one is especially heart-wrenching and I want you to be reassured that you have had and will continue to have my support and prayers. If you would, could you remember me and my family in your prayers?
You are such a Beloved Child of God.
Thank you Prax. I love you too as a mom or sister. I hope you know even when we argue I rarely get genuinely upset with you. Sometimes rather confused because I don’t know what I said wrong lol. I also think I take things harsher then they are meant as well, I like debating but I’m really a bit too sensitive for actual arguments lol. No worries all is always forgiven the next day. :)
I actually do pray for people here, I find it easier to pray for other people and good things for them than I do for myself. I do remember you and the family in my prayers. And thank you for yours. I’m glad I have people pulling for me, I am a pretty isolated person and I don’t get close to people, I probably talk to you all more than any other humans. :)
I also think I take things harsher then they are
And I think I sometimes say things harsher than I should
No worries all is always forgiven the next day
Thank you! My day has been a little rough around the edges and you have no idea how much I needed to hear this!
Off to bed. Sweet dreams.
I’m sorry you had a hard day, I’m glad I could lift your spirits at least a little! Sleep well!
Jack: You might find this and other posts on this blog of interest. Different ways of looking at life. God loves us all!
http://reflectionsofaparalytic.com/?p=10613
I’ve Had a Difficult Life — And That’s Okay
Deluded Lib Pro-Lifer: I so appreciate your honesty. And whatever love and acceptance – warts and all – you may sense here stems from the grace, peace, and love we all have received from the same Source you’re tapping into. So you’re definitely on the right track. :)
Re: the meaning of 1 Cor 6:18, it may help to put it in context with the entire passage 6:12-20 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/1-corinthians/passage.aspx?q=1-corinthians+6:12-20).
Paul is responding to the rationalization some Corinthians have made to create standards of their own: “Everything is permissible to me” (vs 12). Paul doesn’t disagree in principle but warns that not everything is beneficial, and that some may become enslaved again to certain appetites.
Picking up from here in my commentary:
“For some of the Corinthians, it followed from their freedom to eat that they were also free to indulge their sexual appetites in prostitution*. For Paul, however, this action and the logical analogy that lies behind it are fundamentally wrong, because they involve the believer’s body as a physical psychological, and spiritual whole in an action that unites the Christian with the active presence and enslaving power of immorality.
“All other sins are outside of the body in that they do not involve the entire personality (vs 18). Our bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit who dwells within each of us, and we are, as a result, no longer free to use our bodies apart from a recognition of the presence of the Spirit within us.”
*Making matters worse, some Corinthians believers thought it was ok to engage in sex with cultic temple prostitutes.
Hope this helps. :)
“reality” – “I think it’s always been the case that some people simply can’t cope with even thinking that someone may be having more pleasure than them.”
This is not about pleasure Einstein. Its about being responsible to oneself and the other person. Porn is destructive to relationships because it makes some dudes force their partners do unimaginable things. So would this be how you define pleasure and for whom? Somehow I though you possessed a more encompassing mind :)
Thanks Patty and Jill. Jill I appreciate the explanation. I do have trouble understanding the context of verses so that is really helpful.
“Porn is destructive to relationships because it makes some dudes force their partners do unimaginable things.”
No that’s not why porn is damaging to most men IMO. The vast majority of men are not rapists, and about 95% of western males have viewed porn and about a third to a half view it regularly. Coercion and rape Is certainly an issue and I do believe porn contributes, but for the average guy porn is damaging in other ways. Mainly setting unrealistic expectations for the physical looks and sexual appetites of their female partners, training the guy’s sexual responses to be less responsive to a female partner’s needs, assisting in sexual dysfunction (particularly erectile dysfunction and the inability to connect emotionally to a female partner) and things like that. Most men have looked at porn and most men don’t force people to perform sexual acts, so I think the damage from porn is a lot more widespread and subtle than what you’re talking about.
Butting in here way too late…
But Jack! Yay! I hope you allow yourself to be “hidden beneath the shadow of the Almighty’s wings” (I’ve always loved the image). :)
I think I’ve said this before, but you’re not alone in your struggles. I’ve had a horrendous year as well, actually (even despite having a kid) and I’ve definitely had suicidal ideation. So you’re not alone. But thankfully, I have been connected to an awesome church community and the Lord is always patient and gracious to his ever doubting child (me). And I screw up all the time. I’m a huge, giant, tangled mess inside but the beauty of grace is that He can redeem anything and also that once we’re redeemed, we are redeemed forever. And from there, it’s a series of falls and trips as He works in us to be more like Him and renews our minds and souls and hearts. I can say boldly that my savior has saved me and yes even changed me and freed me from so many things – even as I cry and work through some dark soul stuff. So you’re not alone, brother! There are many on this journey who are also scarred and broken. But the glory is in the fact that we know where we will go and that we have the God who died for us. I was reading Romans last night and it hits me every time in Chapter 8 where he talks about how NOTHING can separate us from the love of Christ. That blows my little mind every single time!!
But um as to the original post….
Good point, jill! We’ve been discussing this in our small group at church actually. I think Paul says this because sexual sin is emotional and spiritual as well as physical. Sex is unique in that, unlike the sins of gluttony or lying, it affects your heart and soul and mind. That’s just my two cents.
However. I do think that sexual sins are a tad overblown in the church. Not saying they are not unique, they are not harmful, etc. But it’s almost like sexual sin is held up as a cardinal sin and as Jill pointed out in the context, it’s actually listed among other sins. And we as a church culture have almost begun to idolize ‘purity’ and ‘virginity’ of the body, forgetting that what matters is the heart and that God can redeem any and every sin we commit. And that if we mess up sexually, it’s okay. That’s forgiven too.
This mindset has been a hard one for me to let go, honestly.
I wanted to keep it simple for “reality” Jack, thus the reason I did not mention all the other stuff. “reality” needs to process one thing at a time :)
Thanks LibertyBelle, when I was younger I thought “real” Christians never struggled with anything, especially the “worst” sins like homo/bisexuality or suicidal ideation or mental illness and everything. So I figured I was just kind of a naturally evil human and had no chance. That doesn’t seem to be reflected in the Bible, but I did get the impression from Christians that I talked to that they didn’t struggle with anything and I don’t think that’s a good impression to give to non-believers. If you want to cause hopelessness that’s a good way to do it.
Yes Thomas, but I am pretty sure Reality would just come back with “most men don’t force people into sex acts, and most men have watched/do watch porn”, so I thought it was good to add in the things that are more likely to affect the average man negatively if he chooses to regularly view porn.
Wow, you must have legs like superman “thomas R.”, with your ability to make such astounding leaps to extraordinaryconclusions. You think pleasure = porn? How limiting for you.
Don’t you find sex pleasurable? What’s wrong? Or do you find you lose all sense of responsibility if pleasure is involved? Sounds like it might not be nice to be exposed to you eating your favorite foods! Gorging?
Porn can be damaging. Especially for younger folk who lack real life sexual experience. From what I’ve read and heard, I think porn detracts from peoples ability to experience pleasure during the real thing.
How on earth did you come to the thought that my idea of sexual pleasure is making someone do something they don’t want? That fits more with the so-called ‘traditional’ mindset. ‘Lie back and think of England’.
My level of sexual pleasure directly equates to the pleasure the person I am with is experiencing.
What is wrong with you man? What is encompassing your mind?
I wanted to keep it simple for “reality” Jack, thus the reason I did not mention all the other stuff. “reality” needs to process one thing at a time – you haven’t really got legs like superman’s so be careful you don’t trip.
“Porn can be damaging. Especially for younger folk who lack real life sexual experience. From what I’ve read and heard, I think porn detracts from peoples ability to experience pleasure during the real thing.”
I think when talking about porn nowadays people seem to forget how easy it is for very young boys to get hold of massive amounts of porn of all the unhealthiest kinks imaginable, completely free of charge. I notice a lot of parents who didn’t grow up in the internet age seem to underestimate this. Everyone has an internet connection and a lot of kids are more technologically adept than their parents, block and filters are fairly easy to get around if you know even the basics about computers, and everyone knows how to wipe their internet history browser. There’s also the problem that older brothers and dads seem to be fine with this or even encourage it, or at the very least they might have porn lying around for the kid to get into. I got into my older brother’s porn when I was like seven or so, it wasn’t healthy at all for me to see that stuff even though I wasn’t really the sweet innocent kid, I still shouldn’t have been able to get hold of it. And I’ve had male friends who told me that their dads or older brothers even gave them porn videos or showed them free websites when they were as young as eleven or twelve. It’s a serious issue, it’s not healthy for boys to get hold of that stuff so young (or really at all, adult men shouldn’t, it’s not really a good habit to get into to). They are too young to have any sexual experience and then they see a lot of messed up stuff at a very young age, I think it messes up their view of sex before they ever even have sex, and causes a lot of issues in their relationships when they get older.
I don’t think I’ll let my kids have a computer in their room, to be honest. Just doesn’t seem like the best idea, at least until they are fifteen or sixteen and I can trust them to have a little better self-control.
“And we as a church culture have almost begun to idolize ‘purity’ and ‘virginity’ of the body, forgetting that what matters is the heart and that God can redeem any and every sin we commit. ”
The extreme focus on purity and virginity as always upset me a lot. I think people need to be careful about how they talk about these things. Yes, chastity is really important and indiscriminate sexual activity is harmful and it needs to be emphasized, especially to young people who are just hitting puberty, that these mistakes can have a lot of permanent consequences and sex isn’t just the fun thing it’s painted as in media, it’s actually a serious thing that can cause you a lot of harm if it’s used improperly. But I swear sometimes people act like you might as well go lock yourself in a convent or something if you make a mistake once or God forbid get an STD or something like that. I saw someone on another thread talking about how people with permanent STDs should possibly remain celibate for life. I think treating people like damaged goods is not loving or charitable, it comes across as people who made sexual mistakes are “dirty” or something like that. Not cool. And it’s really rough on people who were sexually abused as a child how important purity and virginity is, when you had that stolen from you when you were just a kid and never got to be “pure” or innocent. And if you got a permanent STD or pregnant from sexual abuse, that compounds the damage a million times when people focus so much on the purity aspect imo from what I’ve seen and experienced. Just my opinion on that, I think people are really too rough on those who commit sexual sins, especially ones that involve the same gender as you. Doesn’t seem that productive sometimes.
I don’t know if this thread is still going or not. . . but I just wanted to say, Jack, how distressed I was to hear about the dark days you have been going through, and that I’m very happy to hear you want to “give Christianity a try.”
I know something about that feeling – nothing to get out of bed for, wondering if there is any meaning to life, and if it’s worth it to continue to live. I’ve suffered a couple of times in my life – my teens and early twenties — from depression. I never really thought seriously about taking my life during those times, and because I was already a Christian, I doubt I would have done it in any case. But I do know I saw no future for me. But God did heal me, and put a plan for my life in my hands – no mistaking it. I want you to know that you can get through it, and that God is always there in the darkest days.
I’ve never said so here, but I’ve always thought you were a smart, interesting person, even-tempered and dedicated to being a good father. I hope your kids appreciate you!
Thanks Lori. I’m glad you found a reason to live. I think you are overestimating my good qualities. I do try with my kids though. Except today I am a bad Daddy because someone decided pushing her brother was a good idea so she had to go into time out, haha. She was not pleased with me but we worked through it and she apologized to her brother! :)
Jack! YES! That is exactly what I’m saying about sexual sin. It’s not that it doesn’t have serious repercussions – it does. But the way it’s talked about in Christian circles is so degrading. “Can you believe they did that?!”
And I always want to throw back, “And yet you’re gossiping about it? Is not the tongue the most damaging organ of the body?”
Because it is. Boom.
Yeah it’s not pleasant. I don’t think shame is a good teaching tool, really. And I don’t think anyone is “damaged goods” which seems to be the implication with some of this stuff. Most Christians are very kind and forgiving but sometimes people are just too rough on certain sins.
The tongue can be the most damaging organ. But it can also be the most pleasurable. It’s all a matter of what you choose to do with it. (and I’m not just talking about sex)
Oh Jack, they may not appreciate you now, but they will someday!
“reality:” “Wow, you must have legs like superman “thomas R.”, with your ability to make such astounding leaps to extraordinaryconclusions. You think pleasure = porn? How limiting for you.”
This thread is about sexual sin Einstein thus I referenced porn and the topic took off. Your reasoning ability is truly slippin’ thus may I suggest ginkgo biloba :)
Reality, I stand corrected! That’s so true the tongue is powerful for good or evil. I just was referring to the fact that it seems many christians think reproductive organs can do the most harm. :(
You, “thomas r.” said Porn is destructive to relationships because it makes some dudes force their partners do unimaginable things. So would this be how you define pleasure and for whom? How you got there is something only you can explain because it certainly bears no relation to what I was saying.
May I suggest a long, soothing bath. Maybe with some aloe vera.
Too true LibertyBelle.
“Oh Jack, they may not appreciate you now, but they will someday!”
Lol they do in their little kid ways. They’re actually the sweetest, most well behaved children ever (I’m not even biased! Strangers and people at my son’s school remark on how polite and kind they are all the time!). Last night after she got in trouble for pushing my son, my daughter very seriously told me she was sorry for calling me a bad Daddy because I’m not bad, I’m a good Daddy. :D I don’t know where she picked up calling people “bad” anyway, maybe from her mother, I don’t call people bad especially in front of the kids. I say things are “inappropriate” or “hurtful” and that sometimes people do hurtful things but that doesn’t make the people bad themselves, it just means that they are behaving badly. The kids usually understand the distinction too, I don’t know if I mentioned it but they are both basically geniuses. :)
“That’s so true the tongue is powerful for good or evil. I just was referring to the fact that it seems many christians think reproductive organs can do the most harm. ”
Yeah.. that old “words can never hurt me” line is completely false. That why I think emotional abuse especially towards kids can be much more harmful than a lot of physical abuse (except sexual abuse, because there’s an emotional component to that too). You can forget and forgive getting slapped around, even beaten, but you remember cruel things said to and about you for years. The tongue is definitely the most dangerous part of the body imo.
Sins of the body drive the Holy Spirit away instead of making your body a temple for and of the Lord.
Hi Jack your children sound wonderful. You are doing a good job parenting them even with your struggles. That is what true love is “self-sacrificing”. Keep up the good work.
IMO this scripture about the results and consequences of sexual sin is a lot deeper than it appears on the surface because sex involves every part of the inner being of a man or a woman. When we do not understand the design, meaning, purpose and the value of sex, we degrade and abuse the gift of sexuality. Sex was created by God to engage every part of a man or woman where we were meant to “become one”, ‘to marry” and “to know” our spouse.God created intimacy to actually mean “into me you see” where you get “to know” every part of your husband or wife as you become united not just physically, anatomically and physiologically but also emotionally, mentally, hormonally, but most importantly spiritually to fully surrender to each other, wanting to please and to”prefer the other person over yourself”.
It was designed to be an act of joining in a covenant representing the covenant of Jesus Christ the bridegroom, joining in covenant to his bride, the church, at the end of time. It is a great mystery which was not really meant to be discerned with the natural mind but with the spirit. It was meant to be transformative to both the husband and wife as they unite “becoming one” in mind, body and spirit and meant to be procreative possibly bringing forth a new life, the most beautiful, unique creation ever, a precious newborn baby. Every baby is a miracle created by God where a man and a woman get to be participate with God in creating a new LIFE, a new mind, a new eternal soul, a new body and a new spirit. God please help us to understand why sexual sin is a sin against our own body and why destroying our unborn babies is an act of blasphemy, rebellion and defiance against God the creator of LIFE. God help us to turn around our nation and our world.
“Sex was created by God to engage every part of a man or woman where we were meant to “become one”, ‘to marry” and “to know” our spouse.God created intimacy to actually mean “into me you see” where you get “to know” every part of your husband or wife as you become united not just physically, anatomically and physiologically but also emotionally, mentally, hormonally, but most importantly spiritually to fully surrender to each other, wanting to “prefer the other person over yourself”.”
and
“It was designed to be an act of joining in a covenant representing the covenant of Jesus Christ the bridegroom, joining in covenant to his bride, the church, at the end of time. It is a great mystery which was not really meant to be discerned with the natural mind but with the spirit. It was meant to be transformative to both the husband and wife as they unite “becoming one” in mind, body and spirit”
So if you lost this, either because someone took it from you when you were too young or you didn’t understand this and made mistakes and were promiscuous, is it even possible to get it back? Can you even ever have something like this with someone if they aren’t your first or if your first experiences were non-consensual or one night stands or something else messed up? Because it always seems to me like people are saying you can’t ever have this, it’s not something you can experience or “get back” if it was taken or you messed up.
Jack, Jesus can redeem any thing. Any sin. Anything that was done to you. Any hurt. Any heartache. Any horrible sin that you have ever intentionally committed. He can redeem it all. And *that* is the beauty of the gospel.
Have you ever read Hosea? Because you absolutely, 100% should. That is one of my favorite books of the Bible. God tells Hosea to marry a prostitute to symbolize how much God loves His people and washes them clean. Over the course of the book, after Hosea marries and saves the prostitute, she goes right back and sells herself and cheats on him again and again and again.
And do you know what God tells Hosea to do?
He tells him to keep going back, even after she willfully cheats on him and prostitutes herself over and over and over again. And God did that to show Israel (and now Christians) that no matter what our sin, His love and forgiveness and mercy is greater. That He wants us to come back, that He loves us even when we knowingly choose to do wrong. That He has redeemed us and won’t give up until the very end.
So I hope that helps. If even God had one of his prophets marry a prostitute that kept cheating on him, I’m sure that God can forgive the repentant heart. Oh! And the woman that Jesus defended when she was caught in the very act of adultery? He asked her who condemned her. She said no one. And then Jesus, God, said Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more. He only asks that once we come to Him that we abandon our old ways and do our best to follow his law and love him with all of our hearts, minds, and souls.
Thank you Libertybelle beautifully and graciously stated. Jack I was not indicting or condemning you or anyone else at all. I was addressing the beautiful ideal of God’s design for sex related in this scripture. Please know God has an amazing plan for your life to reconcile you to himself, to heal you from the abuse you suffered, he knows you were a victim of terrible abuse, he knows it was not your fault, and he does not condemn you for what was done to you but he loves you with an “everlasting love”. It is called Amazing Grace it is a divine mystery and a gift. Please know I pray for your healing.
And I’ll also throw in there that those of us who have suffered abuse often struggle with *accepting* such grace because we feel that, well, we don’t deserve it and it’s almost impossible for us to accept good things.
And I’m still working through that part. But maybe that’s where the whole faith thing comes in?
“May I suggest a long, soothing bath. Maybe with some aloe vera.”
You must have lots of time on your hands “reality.” Do you sing while bathing too (?) :)
Men like me don’t take baths. We take showers so that we can take care of business and attend to family matters…
And yes I believe God wants to restore to you everything the evil one has ever stolen from you. I don’t know exactly of course what Jesus has in store for your future life but I truly believe if you put you trust in Him He will give you “more than you could ask or even think” to “give you a future and a hope”. Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you says the Lord plans to prosper you not for your harm or destruction but to give you a future and a hope” my favorite scripture. Take care Jack.
Prolifer L no problem! I knew what you were trying to say. ;)
Oh Thomas!! If you don’t take baths you are missing out, good sir.
My husband loves baths (he has back pain and it helps his muscles). A nice salt bath can truly restore the body, mind, and soul. I am an enormous fan of them (when I can find the time). I’ve found when I take a bit of time to restore myself and get peaceful (I like this time to ruminate and pray and let my mind wander) I’m a more pleasant person to those around me.
Especially now that I’m a mom, nothing washes away the day like a good bath or long, hot shower. ;)
Thanks Libertybelle. God bless you.
Thanks LibertyBelle and Prolifer L. I get the forgiveness thing. I was just wondering if you can ever have that intimacy that you describe as how sex is designed. It was obviously meant to be with one person and if you mess that up it’s not like you can be like “do-over!” and make the prior partners or abuse or whatever go away. So I think you’ll always be missing something or can’t get it back. I don’t think I’m explaining what I mean correctly.
My wife takes baths too and so do our children LibertyBelle. I have places to go, people to see, things to do. A little longer shower keeps me clean too but about those hot ones – for me they have to be somewhere beyond warm but definitely not hot ;)
Yeah I get what you’re trying to say, J. But I don’t know how to answer it. Honestly. I wish I did. I want to say that even then, it can be redeemed. But that is not a road I’ve walked down so I’m not sure. God does say that widows can remarry and doesn’t seem to indicate that that sexual union would be any less holy than those who had never had sex before so I think you can indeed be redeemed – even the heart and even that “it” factor. I don’t know.
Not such a vast leap to a false conclusion by you this time “thomas r.”
At no stage did I mention my own bathing habits.
I merely made a suggestion to you.
I don’t know LibertyBelle but thanks. I find the subject upsetting to be honest.
I just want to say I don’t know how you northerners do it. We have like eight inches of snow today (the locals assure me this rarely happens in this part of Oregon) and it’s like 20 degrees and is supposed to be like 15 tonight. :( My kids are ecstatic and I don’t like this whole “snow” business. It’s very cold lol.
Nobody need pay attention to such things, if they do not want to. It is founded upon myth, fantasy, and unfounded superstition.
Oh honey. There are so many subjects that are upsetting to me. :( I know how ya feel. It’s upsetting to me too.
And the snow. Yeah I like snow. In doses. :)