Stanek Sunday funnies 5-3-15
Good morning, and Happy Sunday! Here were my top five favorite political cartoons this week. Be sure to vote for your fav in the poll at the bottom of this post!
beginning with a twofer by Chip Bok at Townhall.com…
… the latter in reference to this video of my kind of mom catching her son participating in the rioting in Baltimore…
[youtube]https://youtu.be/VRlmCf1Kj2o[/youtube]
by Lisa Benson at Townhall.com…
by Gary McCoy at Townhall.com…
by Michael Ramirez at Townhall.com…
[polldaddy poll=8841761]
May.03, 2015 10:52 am |
Cartoons |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
#1 this week.
Ah, the continued angst of modern day conservatives.
Modern day conservative governing is a failed experiment. Look at Kansas, look at Wisconsin. Look at the actual numbers – job growth, budget, school spending – the governors and legislators there are digging a hole that will take years to climb out of.
Political gerrymandering has made it all but a certainty the House will remain with the GOP for a while – but hopefully when a Dem wins again in the white house, the GOP will abandon this race to the crazy, look to guys like Kasich and other moderates (guys like Reagan), and the GOP can start anew.
“Modern day conservative governing is a failed experiment. Look at Kansas, look at Wisconsin. Look at the actual numbers – job growth, budget, school spending – the governors and legislators there are digging a hole that will take years to climb out of.”
Ex-RINO, you really do have the Progressive attack strategy down to a ‘T’. The actual numbers for job growth, budget, school spending etc. are so obviously worse in the ‘big cities’ that have been under Democratic/progressive control it is alsmost insane that you bring it up in defense of your ideology.
Ex-GOP: Modern day conservative governing is a failed experiment.
Often, yes, Ex-GOP, but – as Truthseeker brought up – there are plenty of examples of failed Democratic governing too, Baltimore being a perfect example.
Doug
You seem like a guy who moves beyond bumper sticker arguments – so you might enjoy this:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121685/liberal-policies-arent-whats-wrong-baltimore
Doug,
And don’t forget Detroit. Another shining beacon of progressivism. 50+ years of Democrat control.
But EGV, 1:27PM
How can that be?? Baltimore has been run by Democrats since 1967. Liberal black Democrat Elijah Cummings has represented Baltimore in congress for 30 years. Shouldn’t Baltimore be a bastion of economic and social equality, tolerance, and brotherly love?
Mary
As you know, local politicians don’t set the course for all policy – we have both federal and state level governments as well.
Funny how the ex GOPer’s and truthseekers are looking to the Demontcrats to help them out? Bahahaha! I’m from Illinois the dumbest state in the Union. All run by shitheads from theDemocrat party. Good luck with your new found liberalism you fools!!! Bahahahahahha!
ED –
truthseeker is a conservative – so thanks for proving the ‘dumbest state in the Union comment’.
EGV,
You fail to address my question.
Should I put it in all bold Mary?
Or should I just paste in the text of the article I posted?
Or maybe some youtube videos regarding Fed, State, and Local governments?
The problem is, the facts could jump up and bite you in the kneecap and you still wouldn’t acknowledge them.
EGV,
LOL. Temper, temper.
Here’s another perspective.
http://allenbwest.com/2015/04/the-dirty-little-secret-no-one-wants-to-admit-about-baltimore/
Ex Democrap: Good luck with your new found liberalism you fools!!!
Our problem is that Republicans have not been, and are not “conservative” in the way we need politicians to be, the same as for Democrats.
I heard the dumbest person in Illinois went to Iowa, and the IQs of both states went up.
????????
“I’m from Illinois the dumbest state in the Union.”
Yes it is the dumbest state. Unless and until they grant DC statehood, that is.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121685/liberal-policies-arent-whats-wrong-baltimore
Ex-GOP, I do agree there are usually at least two sides to a story, and that some of that is operative here.
I am not saying that “liberal policies” are 100% what is wrong with Baltimore, nor that had Republicans been in power, that it would be any better, necessarily. But I think that it’s obvious that the Democrats who have been in power have not done well, at all, and that their basic liberal tenets just ain’t working, there.
I think most of the article is speculation, and the opinion of the author, and then stuff which is really illogical. Some things:
Only a decade ago, banks marketed subprime mortgages to poor black homebuyers, leading to a wave of foreclosures.
Yes, no doubt. But this was not a thing “done to blacks,” per se, nor anything limited to Baltimore. This was all over the country, to all people. It is a two-way street between lending banks and the people who take out loans. If there is outright fraud on the part of the banks, that is one thing. But most of the problems with the “sub-prime mortgage crisis,” on the level of the individual borrower, came from them just seeing big Dollar signs, without giving due consideration to the fact that they would have to pay the money back.
Not everybody is going to get “prime rate” loans nor anything even close – that is just reality. The article bemoans the fact that easy-lending practices led to many foreclosures. Well, imagine that…
Okay, so banks made loans they really should not have, looking at it that way. Yet earlier in the article, we see:
Federal and local policymakers of the time redlined areas with “undesirable racial concentrations” to omit them from mortgage insurance programs.
So now the complaint is that the banks were not doing what they did do, above. Mortgage insurance is generally for loans where there is less than 20% put down as collateral. By definition, these will be riskier loans, to start with. Then, the borrower has to pay for the mortgage insurance, on top of making the loan payments. It is often a recipe that leads to default and foreclosure. First, the author complains that banks did not do it, then later complains that they did.
The Wall Street Journal said: “The men and women in charge have been Democrats, and their governing ideas are ‘progressive.’ This model, with its reliance on government and public unions, has dominated urban America as once-vibrant cities such as Baltimore became shells of their former selves.
I think the author has a point about that not being the end-all of the situation, that prior policies, even “conservative” ones, set the course to some extent. However, for many decades now, Democrats and “liberal” polices have been in effect, and if they don’t deserve 100% of the blame, they obviously have done little or nothing to really change things for the better, to say nothing of making things much worse. The WSJ, in any event, is correct that basically, “These guys have been in charge, for a long time.”
Democrats exacerbated these problems not by embracing the policies of the left. Rather, they dug the hole deeper by yawing to the right. Aggressive policing, tougher drug sentencing, slashing the budgets of school and public housing and parks—throughout Baltimore’s history, lawmakers at the local, state, and federal level adopted policies that entrenched poverty and segregation in the city.
So now the author points the finger at more “conservative policies,” even if on the part of Democrats. Well good grief – it was still the people in charge who did it. And, this “yawing to the right” was actually quite minimal, compared to the prevalence and scope of what are rightly called “liberal” policies.
Aggressive policing, wow, how horrible. I’d say that there is no shortage of residents who wished for more aggressive policing than what was the case, all along.
Tougher drug-sentencing, okay, maybe pretty much a waste, there. My opinion.
“Slashing the budgets”… as if this is a “bad thing”? It’s not, it’s what *has* to be done sometimes. There is no getting around this, regardless of what the author might imply. There is no such thing as a free lunch. More about that in a minute.
President Barack Obama hinted at the need for assistance in off-the-cuff remarks this week, though it’s unlikely to come from federal politicians. “If we really want to solve the problem, if our society really wanted to solve the problem, we could,” he said, adding, “I think we all understand that the politics of that are tough because it’s easy to ignore those problems or to treat them just as a law-and-order issue, as opposed to a broader social issue.” Conservatives keep trying to change the conversation.
“Trying to change the conversation”? Obama hints at the need for assistance, but it’s probably not going to come from the federal gov’t. Then from who? The federal gov’t is the one that can engage in deficit spending – state and local gov’ts can’t get away with it for long.
Much of the author’s argument seems to be that “more money is needed.” I say no, that often just does not work. Obama says that if we want to solve the problems, then we can. Nope – again I disagree – it never works like that. It is impossible to have everyone “have enough.” We’ve thrown money at poverty like crazy for the last 50 years, and what has it got us? Not that much good has not been done, yet still – we have bought into poverty on a massive scale, and massive poverty is what we have.
“More money”… well, we have gotten to the point where the federal gov’t’s debt is over $150,000 per taxpayer. Where when you add in unfunded liabilities, it’s over $800,000 per taxpayer.
We can’t solve everything for everybody. The poor will always be with us – no way around it. Some people will starve, and some will die. That’s just the way it is, like it or not. Trying to go against that has got us to the point where the lives of almost all Americans will be severely impacted by the resolution of the past 50 to 80 years.
JDC: Yes it is the dumbest state. Unless and until they grant DC statehood, that is.
True. Crackhead Marion Barry, after being released from prison, is re-elected as mayor. Heh.
All good!
From a CBS interview:
“Graham told CBS News she thinks the situation wouldn’t have been as bad if there were more mothers out there monitoring their sons. But she acknowledged there are some circumstances that can prevent moms from from doing that.
“We don’t know where those mothers are at, a lot of mothers have to provide for their children,” said Graham.”
Graham is a single mother of six, although I would argue she didn’t conceive any of her six children herself.
Exactly Prax, the fathers of these angry young men (and they have a reason to be angry, it’s not like they were rioting for no reason) should have been out there showing these boys how to peacefully do civil disobedience, not riot. It could have made all the difference in the way things went down. It’s a tragedy that the black community has been so decimated by institutional racism that they don’t have this.
But anyway. Celebrating violence as a response to violence isn’t the way to go. I have great sympathy for this mother, she must have been terrified of losing her child, but we shouldn’t be in the position as a society that this is seen as wonderful and necessary. Child abuse tends to create violent children, not functional members of society.
And I have several friends in Baltimore and surrounding areas that said the majority of protesters were peaceful, don’t believe everything you see on the sensationalist media.
DLPL,
So people riot for a good reason? Tell me, would you have these sentiments if someone felt they had “good reason” to loot your home, walk off with everything you worked for, and then burn it down?
Yes people get angry about a lot of things, but it does not justify massive destruction and lawlessness.
I think the black family has been decimated more by gov’t “anti-poverty” programs and “good intentions” more than it has anything else. This article points out that black Americans, while enduring the injustice of racism, nonetheless kept their families intact. As late as 1950 only 9% of black children lived in single parent homes, and we’re talking the days of Jim Crow and pre Civil Rights.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1261
Where did I say “people riot for a good reason”? Copy and paste this please. What I actually wrote, if you were interested in arguing my actual point, was that they have a reason to be angry. They do. I stand by that, even if some of the people in Maryland expressed their justified anger in non-justifiable ways.
And anyway, I bet you ANYTHING, all my paychecks for the rest of my life, that the same people decrying the black community for railing against injustices in Baltimore would applaud the exact same actions if done by an oppressed group in an Islamic state. Bet you anything.
Black families have been utterly screwed over by redlining, huge disparities in the criminal justice system, gentrification, discrimination in hiring practices, etc. Trying to boil it down to Democratic policies you dislike is just silly and myopic. Fatherless in particular, besides being a problem that plagues some areas and classes of people in our country regardless of race, is heavily contributed to by far more than some “good intentions” and anti-poverty programs.
DLPL,
“Its not like they were rioting for no reason”. I saw that as a justification. My apologies if I was wrong.
Please answer my question concerning your home and everything you have worked for. Or if you were this completely innocent bystander.
http://www.tpnn.com/2015/05/01/video-rioters-try-to-set-pizza-shop-owner-on-fire-says-he-will-now-arm-himself/
Please explain then why up until 1950 black families were mostly intact. Keep in mind that in this era, Jim Crow and the KKK, both creations of the Democrat Party, ruled supreme. It doesn’t get much more racist than this.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1672
Seriously Mary, I literally said that the fathers should be out there teaching the young ones to use civil disobedience instead of rioting. I don’t even know how you managed to cherry pick my comment to that extent. You must have seen “they have a reason to be angry” and just started typing a a response without reading the rest of the paragraph.
There are multiple reasons for the lack of marriage and single parenthood in the black community. I don’t feel like linking studies you’ll ignore that were done on the increased imprisonment due to the “War on Drugs” that has been incredibly proficient at singling out black young males, putting them in prison and leaving children to their mothers. Gang culture, heavily contributed to by racism, plays a role as well. There are a million contributing factors here and your pet complaints may very well play a role, but like I said, it’s incredibly myopic to focus solely on them. We’ve had this argument multiple times and you just repeat the same thing and it’s exhausting.
And I’m not going to answer ridiculous questions about what I think about the violence, you know what I think about violence because I’ve talked to you for years.
No DLPL,
I refer to your quote “its not like they were rioting for no reason”. Should this be interpreted that they had a “reason”?
No, fathers should be taking responsibility for the children they help produce, from infancy on. They shouldn’t be irresponsibly producing children, then abandoning these children to lives of poverty and welfare dependency.
DLPL,
So there are multiple reasons? Why didn’t these “reasons” rear their heads prior to the mid 1960’s? There wasn’t injustice, drugs, racism?
If anything, black poverty was in decline and families were intact.
Check out how many of those gang members come from two parent homes.
Yeah…. there are always reasons behind riots. Whether it be sports teams losing, pumpkins, or years of institutional racism and police brutality resulting in a powder keg that’s lit by a young man getting his spinal cord severed and not receiving medical attention. It’s all well and good to say “don’t riot”. If you don’t examine the reasons for these conditions and try to solve them, it’s just gonna keep happening over and over.
And OBVIOUSLY I think fathers should raise their kids. It’s implied in the fact I think they should be teaching their kids how to properly channel their justified anger into proper civil disobedience instead of violence. Mothers should be too. Smacking around kids on camera instead of teaching them this is not really gonna work. Violence begets violence, and I’ve never seen a parent hit a kid like that unless there has been a history of familial violence, which contributes to criminality, so there’s that aspect that people are going to ignore too, I’m sure. The fact remains that the problem of poverty and welfare-dependence isn’t going to be solved by saying “don’t have kids if you’re not in a place to take care of them”. There’s a culture of poverty and other issues that creates these symptoms in the first place, just saying “buck up and be a man” doesn’t fix it. Fatherless boys tend to abandon their own children (lack of being taught otherwise among other things), girls who have no male father figure tend to choose irresponsible or bad men (inadvertently, it gets ingrained by their childhood lack of role models), all kids who grow up without being taught better tend to gravitate towards bad situations. We can’t improve this stuff by sticking up our nose and posting statistics from a bygone era that had different issues going on.
And I’d love to hear you explain how you can raise healthy and functioning children from prison or when you’re in and out of jail (due to some personal choices, along with a heavy dollop of disproportionate law enforcement and selective policing), if you can’t get a job or a home in a safe neighborhood, or if you’re dead.
You can’t compare eras with completely different norms and values, and completely different types of societal ills effectively, Mary. It doesn’t follow and it’s not. The issue facing the black community today are much different. And the same issues faced other minority and immigrant groups, and the same anti-poverty programs were in place, and those groups now have completely different issues going on now, for the most part, than the black community. So how you can think these issues are solely due to anti-poverty programs is beyond me. We can look to the past to see if some things worked better than things we’re doing today, but comparing them as if society for EVERYONE hasn’t changed (the acceptance of premarital sex all over is a big one, just off the top of my head), is just ridiculous and unproductive.
But anyway, I’m not going to say “this is why, and this is the fix” because I don’t know. No one really does, though everyone including me has a theory or a few. The fact remains there are multiple factors, and we’re talking about some issues that have persisted for generations and some that are fairly new. They all need to be looked at and improved, blaming your pet policies that you blame almost everything on, lol, isn’t gonna cut it.
DLPL,
These officers have been charged, they are innocent until proven guilty. Interesting that 3 of them are black. I would hope we learned from Ferguson…not to jump to any conclusions until the facts are in.
No, those are excuses to riot, not reasons. As I have pointed out its easy to be sympathetic, unless of course its my property and livelihood being destroyed, or my life being threatened. I applaud that woman. Better the kid get a little smack than a bullet in the head or a police record. The woman was enraged..and scared.
I understand what you are saying about fatherlessness,and I am arguing that it is contributing to the destruction of the black community.
Also, are these men in prison the result of family breakdown? A cycle that perpetuates itself. Who makes the neighborhoods unsafe?
Why are black students who want to achieve reviled as “acting white” by other black students? As far as I’m concerned the suggestion that education and success are “white” is something I would expect to hear at a KKK rally, not coming from the mouths of black people.
The problem is, the facts could jump up and bite you in the kneecap and you still wouldn’t acknowledge them. – ain’t that the truth!
Mary, they are literally reasons. They just aren’t justified reasons. The guilt of the officers isn’t relevant, imo, to the reason the riot happened.
I’m so sick of people not wanting to fix anything and just wanna talk. You aren’t fixing anything by refusing to look at contributing factors. The riots happened, there are reasons, ignoring them is foolhardy and what we’ve been doing for years.
Of course imprisoned parents is self-perpetuating. Most of these issues are. You simple refuse to look at the underlying causes and want to look at symptoms. Guess what, we’ve focused on the symptoms like violence for decades and it hasn’t gotten better.
Are you referring to me, Reality?
DLPL,
Yes you can compare eras. Black Americans have a long history or strong family ties, valuing education,(denied access to white schools black Americans established their own, producing students that were second to none) contributions to science, medicine, entertainment, establishing businesses and churches, and building thriving communities.
A very great and accomplished history despite every obstacle thrown in their way.
http://www.aawc.com/zpaa.html
No LDPL, I’m not.
DLPL,
Well the assumed guilt of the officers seems important to the rioters.
I agree, not looking at contributing factors only perpetuates the problem. I think I am looking at the underlying causes.
Doug –
I think we’re unwrapping two issues here:
1) My initial post was in reaction to the fact that there’s two GOP parties right now – and the hard right is on display in a couple of states – two worth looking at are Kansas and Wisconsin. I live in Wisconsin, so it is easier for me to talk to (though reading on Kansas and their failures is interesting) – and with a hard right GOP everything in Wisconsin, we’ve been failing while the states around us are moving forward. While others have surpluses, we have deficits. While others are growing, we’re struggling. And the response isn’t adjustment, like Reagan would have done, but a double down on failed policies. I think the GOP used to be a solid party that could move the country forward. Now they are a party of fear, governed by emotion and not intelligence, and they seem to attack through policy those that are threats.
2) I think there is PLENTY of blame on the Democratic party regarding the downfall of inner cities and the problems cities like Baltimore faces. I do think the main fault is jumping on the ‘tough on crime’ bandwagon in hopes of appeasing voters – and we’ve seen the end results. We’ve essentially created a culture where crime will thrive – incentivize those managing that crime – have turned incarceration into big business – and now we wonder where the fathers are? Obama has blame on his hands – under his administration, police departments continued to get military gear and become more about warring against citizens than policing.
What’s sad to me though is in any of these situations – Baltimore and Ferguson are the two latest examples – the right wing looks for a quick scape goat to ignore the uncomfortable questions of how we got here. To Mary’s credit, she asks good questions and seems to see multiple sides of the coin (most of the time) – but it pains me to see exhaustive reports come out regarding systematic racism within Ferguson for years, and the only take away the right wing got was that the hands-up don’t shoot probably didn’t happen. But they ignore everything else.
“but we shouldn’t be in the position as a society that this is seen as wonderful and necessary.”
Agree. In my opinion, it is sickening that this video is being cheered on as good mothering. I agree that this is probably not the first time she has slapped her son around. There is a difference between fearing someone and respecting them. Now this young man will probably have to deal with the taunts from “friends” of being beat on by his mom on camera. When he has a wife and children, I hope he won’t take out his anger towards women on them. If he sticks around long enough to help raise his children that is.
My children’s ex-step-mom went to jail after she slapped my oldest son in the face after he called her a b*tch. This was also right after his father punched a hole in the drywall while fighting with her. The wife was court-ordered to have “No contact with [husband’s name] or [step-son’s name] or their residence.” She was also ordered to not drink alcohol even though I had complained for years about my ex’s drinking around the children and he was drinking that day as well. It was her property when they met but became his and his male teenage child’s after a family fight? Enabling abusive males imo.
When I remarried, my husband took both of our sons to the ground — one time each — when they got out of hand with me. He didn’t hit, punch or smack them. Just tackled them and held them down and made it very clear that that disrespect/violence garbage they saw from their dad was not going to happen in our home.
One man and one woman. For good reasons.
Hi Prax,
IMO, this woman was angry and frightened. She was desperately trying to get her son off the street before he wound up with a bullet in his head or in prison. I think the thing hurt most was his pride. He’ll probably never live down the embarassment of his mother hauling him off the street.
We have no idea what relationship this woman has with her son. I’ve grabbed my child out of danger and in my anger and fear, a slap on the butt resulted. One woman told me how her child went missing at the mall, and when she saw her, both hugged and shook and yelled at her in relief and anger.
http://abc7.com/news/baltimore-moms-son-im-gonna-do-better/688586/
So when I’m angry and frightened, it’s okay to do this to someone? Or just to my children? Could I do it to a boss? How about a neighbor’s child?
Why did my son’s step-mom go to jail when she slapped him? I’m sure she was angry and frightened too.
I knew someday that my boys would be stronger than me, and kept that in mind as I raised them. Eventually, most boys do get stronger than their moms. Boys, especially, need that positive “male back-up” before they become stronger than their moms and others weaker than themselves. They need to be taught to respect those not as strong as themselves.
How come not one of the men in the background of the video lifted a finger to help this woman discipline this young man? Not one of them went up to him and said on the order of “Listen hear you little whippersnapper! You need to listen to your mother and look at her when she’s talking to you! Get that mask off and get your butt home!” And if whippersnapper argued, swore and fought, he should have been tackled. Not hit, punched, choked or beat up. Just held down long enough to get the point.
The men just stood by watching like a bunch of zombies. Just the way “the man” wants them to behave.
From your article, Mary:
“As for Graham, she said she hopes she’s instilled in her son that violence is never the answer.”
Unless she’s the one dishing it out it seems.
In her defense, it appears she has been doing a job that was meant to be done by two.
Prax,
I’m not saying its all right. I’m saying it may just be the reaction to anger and fear. Can I understand it? Yes. I’ve experienced it and reacted in a way I probably shouldn’t have.
Exactly. What kind of example are the men setting? Where is this boy’s father?
Oh please Prax. The way “the man” wants them to behave. Give me a break.
Well her son got the message. Yes its a job meant to be done by two. That’s the problem.
“While others have surpluses, we have deficits”
Ex-RINO,
You consistently post flat out lies.
Referring to Ex-GOP’s original post:
The citizens of Wisconsin and Kansas seem to be pretty happy with their choices, and keep electing more and re-electing their conservatives.
And yes, this has caused reductions in key liberal metrics, like “budget growth” and “school spending.”
I suggest that the liberals need some new metrics. “Voter satisfaction” would be a useful one for them to monitor.
““As for Graham, she said she hopes she’s instilled in her son that violence is never the answer.”
Unless she’s the one dishing it out it seems.”
Yes, exactly. The short-sightedness of those who support this kind of violence astounds me. It’s been supported, over and over again, that violence begets violence (especially when you abuse a child). Kids who witness or are victims of violence are more likely to use violence themselves. It’s not that complicated, you can’t show that violence is wrong by being violent!
About the men standing by, I agree that someone should have stepped in and helped calm the situation, get the mom and the son under control. You shouldn’t stand by and let parents hit their kids any more than you should refuse to help a parent with an out of control teenager. The situation could have been resolved in a much better manner than it was.
“I’m not saying its all right. I’m saying it may just be the reaction to anger and fear.”
Oh, so you DO understand that sometimes people react to scary and terrible situations inappropriately, sometimes even with violence? Who’da thunk it.
“Well the assumed guilt of the officers seems important to the rioters.”
Not so much, pretty much any incident similar to the one videotaped would have set it off imo, regardless of the guilt or innocence of those involved. There are places seething with anger and despair over years of brutality and oppression, all over the country, and it was going to come to a head eventually. Hopefully, we’ll start working on the issues before something like the riots and Gray’s death doesn’t happen again.
“Yes you can compare eras. Black Americans have a long history or strong family ties, valuing education,(denied access to white schools black Americans established their own, producing students that were second to none) contributions to science, medicine, entertainment, establishing businesses and churches, and building thriving communities.”
Um, you think they aren’t now? Historically black universities still exist, and are still mostly catering to black students. African-Americans are making more inroads into science, politics, etc than ever before.
I think you’re idealizing a former era while simultaneously stereotyping black Americans as belonging to a specific subculture that’s mostly prevalent in inner cities.
“I agree, not looking at contributing factors only perpetuates the problem. I think I am looking at the underlying causes.”
I think you’re still looking at symptoms. Fatherlessness and crime are symptoms of the underlying causes, imo. I mentioned several things I think contribute to these symptoms.
“You shouldn’t stand by and let parents hit their kids any more than you should refuse to help a parent with an out of control teenager.”
I agree. This mom should not be held up as a heroine in our country. Could you imagine the outrage if she whooped up on a dog that didn’t listen to her? She has five other children and she should at least be made to take parenting and/or counseling classes.
I am proud of her. A teenager kid, caught in the act of doing some violence and mayhem. She had clearly taught him to behave better.
Her reaction was not overly violent or out-of-control. She took control and got him out of the situation… before riot police laid some real harm on her boy.
“before riot police laid some real harm on her boy.”
Trust me, there’s no chance the riot police were ever going to do any harm to him. The mayor had granted “space to destroy” and all that.
“Her reaction was not overly violent or out-of-control.”
Do the same thing to your dog or cat in a public venue and see if you are held up as a hero by our media.
“I am proud of her. A teenager kid, caught in the act of doing some violence and mayhem. She had clearly taught him to behave better.”
How do you figure she taught him to behave better? Seems to me it may be that she was quick to use her fists instead of real discipline while raising him and that’s not how you teach children to not be violent. I was a delinquent teen, you’d probably be proud of the beatings I got for it too, but that delinquency was a result of a long history of abuse. I’m not saying that this mom is generally abusive, but you’re making a lot of assumptions.
Regardless of whether or not she generally hits her kids when they are misbehaving, it’s still wrong to beat on your kid. Full stop. There were multiple ways to handle the situation that didn’t get the message out that it’s okay to hurt people as long as you have good intentions.
please pray a nine day novena for the Supreme Court case currently underway. It will determine the fate of this country. If they find discriminating against homosexual marriage a crime, the states will no longer have their rights to protect those who refuse to participate in homosexual marriages, and those persons will be criminals.
In common wealth states like Virginia, a citizen can press charges against another citizen by going to the magistrate and stating their case. If the magistrate is convinced, an arrest warrant is issued for the person charged. That person is taken to the court house by the police in handcuffs, and charged. Bail is posted and they cannot leave the state until the preliminary trial. The charges are pressed against that person in the name of the entire Commonwealth.
The Supreme Court ruling will validate any claims of discrimination against a homosexual marriage as a violation of the US constitution. Just as the Supreme Court protected feticide at the expense of families, they are now going to decide of homosexuality should be protected from any form of dissent. This will impose arrests upon our religious. This will take away the non-profit status of our churches. This will put the moral nexus of the nation on those willing to go to jail for their faith, and it will silence religion on moral matters. Please see holylove.org, pray a nine day novena to convict the conciounces of the Supreme Court or please pray to God in your own way that this nation will be spared a final death blow in these next three months. Please Pray and GodBless. -Bobbi
DLPL: Yeah…. there are always reasons behind riots. Whether it be sports teams losing, pumpkins, or years of institutional racism and police brutality
Jack, pumpkins?
Riot at a pumpkin festival in New Hampshire, Doug: http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-new-hampshire-pumpkin-riots-20141019-story.html
What I find interesting is that everyone focuses on the Baltimore and Ferguson riots and how wrong they are, when there are legitimate grievances that the people have there. It’s not a football team loss, it’s not a pumpkin festival that drunk college students freaked out over, it’s decades of degradation and violence they are reacting to. It doesn’t make rioting okay, but it certainly shows that there are some serious problems.
CityOfAngels: If they find discriminating against homosexual marriage a crime, the states will no longer have their rights to protect those who refuse to participate in homosexual marriages, and those persons will be criminals.
You might as well get used to it – that discrimination is going away, sooner or later. Two gay people get married, and want to rent an apartment; you are going to tell them “no”?
Riot at a pumpkin festival in New Hampshire, Doug
Jack, thanks. I thought you had just picked a word to show that anything could be the basis for a riot.
I pictured 4 guys in a car in September or October, driving along a road, and they pass a field of pumpkins.
One guy says, “Whoa, look at that – ******* pumpkins….”
There is a pause, then all the guys nod their heads up and down, and say in unison, “We’re havin’ a riot tonight!”
Doug, you are not allowed to make me laugh that hard on a serious thread such as this, lol.
Ha – Jack, I was laughing too, just thinking of it.
To be serious, I’m fairly cynical and gloomy about resolving or fixing things like the Baltimore situation. A lot of things have been tried, and a huge amount of money spent, and it’s always filtered through politicians who seem to be incapable of doing anything except messing things up.
I think many people see Ferguson and Baltimore as isolated incidents, and to some extent they are. They appear in the news and then go away after a while. So it’s a “steady state” for the rest of us.
My opinion is that the country as a whole is in for a darkening of the social-cultural mood, with more conflict overall.
DLPL, 11:59PM
I was pointing out the remarkable history of black Americans, not suggesting anything. If you recall, I said black American accomplished much despite the KKK, Jim Crow, and every obstacle thrown in their way. Hardly idealizing. None of this succeeded in destroying the black family.
Maybe you’re the one ignoring the cause, while focusing on the symptoms.
truth –
Wisconsin has a structural deficit. Call it LeRoy for all I care – Wisconsin has to make cuts to adhere to the requirement of having a balanced budget.
If you claim Wisconsin doesn’t have a deficit, you’d have to do the same thing for Doyle back in the day.
So don’t call me a liar – google “wisconsin deficit” and you’ll see countless articles that refer to what we have as a deficit.
My goodness…
Del –
I’ll remember that voter satisfaction line next time I see you whining about Obama (who has a higher approval rating than Walker).
Look – people can spin this all they want – the fact is, we’re a similar state to Minnesota, and they are kicking our tails on almost every measurable financial statistic. It is okay to like Walker’s policies – just don’t try to pretend they are working for the majority of people in the state.
“You might as well get used to it – that discrimination is going away, sooner or later. Two gay people get married, and want to rent an apartment; you are going to tell them “no”?”
CT and I were arguing once, and we made a distinction between events and people. Like, you can’t discriminate against someone for being gay, but you can refuse to do things like bake a cake for a wedding. As of now you don’t have to be involved in events you disagree with. Like, I’d be pretty ticked off if I owned a restaurant and was forced to cater to an idk slaughterhouse company event, haha, since I am opposed to slaughtering animals. But I shouldn’t be able to discriminate against someone for what they are, like, refusing to rent to the slaughterhouse employee, and such. I think it’s a fine line and needs a conversation.
I do think that the nature of the “religious freedom” bills are a lot more insidious than just protecting bakers from making a cake for a wedding though. Sexual orientation isn’t a protected class in most states, it’s perfectly legal in most states to fire or refuse to rent to someone for being gay. I can see that getting worse with these type of laws. And no one should be unable to find essentials like employment and a place to live because of something like being gay.
“I’m fairly cynical and gloomy about resolving or fixing things like the Baltimore situation. A lot of things have been tried, and a huge amount of money spent, and it’s always filtered through politicians who seem to be incapable of doing anything except messing things up.”
I’m really, really trying to be optimistic and not see it like that. But you’re right, it really doesn’t seem like it’s gonna get better. Endemic issues like this are extremely difficult to fix, and with how split the political parties are, and how both sides try to undercut literally everything the others do, I don’t see much hope of a true bipartisan push to really work on this stuff.
Will there be any riots or protests?
http://news.yahoo.com/york-police-officer-shot-head-dies-injuries-newspaper-170006328.html
Mary – if they chose to not even try the guy who shot him, probably.
Ex-RINO,
Wisconsin had a structual deficit last biennial budget in 2013 too but after Walkers passed his budget Wisconsin ended up with a surplus that was refunded to the people as a property tax refund. What is your point?
In Minnesota, Pawlenty left with a $6.2 billion structural deficit. Now, under Dayton, they have an over $1 billion surplus.
In Wisconsin, Walker came in with about a $3.5 billion structural deficit. We got it to a surplus, and then he cut taxes for the wealthy, creating an over $2 billion structural deficit.
In that time, Wisconsin has had some of the worst job growth in the country – so while Minnesota is choosing what to do with a surplus, Wisconsin is borrowing money to fix our roads.
In conclusion, modern day conservative governing is a failed experiment. You can’t have the answer to everything be “we’ll cut taxes” and end up with a comparatively good economy. We’re seeing it before our eyes.
EGV,
Don’t hold your breath. I doubt most people have even heard of this officer, and even fewer care. Don’t expect any guest appearance by the “Rev.” Al Charletan on behalf of this officer and his family.
I’m not – when cops are killed, justice is usually served pretty quickly.
Mary, no, because police officers always get justice when they are tragically killed (unless they can’t find the killer or another cop shot them). There also hasn’t been decades of oppression against police officers, where they are disproportionately in poverty and profiled and overrepresented in the criminal justice system, etc. It’s rather ridiculous to pretend that police officer deaths are comparable in the way they are treated as compared to people killed by cops.
Good point DLPL,
As a restaurant owner, I would agree you have the right to refuse to cater a slaughterhouse event if this is in violation of your ethics and personal convictions. Of course you couldn’t refuse to serve the slaughterhouse employee who comes in for a meal or to buy what food you have on display.
“We got it to a surplus”
So Walker came in five years ago with a structural deficit of $3.5 billion and got it to a surplus. Now your worried cause of a supposed structural deficit of $2 billion (about half of what the deficit there was Walker came into office five years ago) and that is your failed experiment?
You seriously have to know the pile of manure you are shoveling. If there is one thing Walker has proven throughout his entire career in political office it is fiscal responsibility and an ability to balance budgets. Even when he was County Executive of a liberal bastion like Milwaukee.
DLPL,
http://conservative-headlines.com/2015/04/3rd-grade-nj-teacher-forces-students-to-write-get-well-cards-for-cop-killer/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57eBJ_zhD3c
Can’t imagine a slaughterhouse seeking catering from a vegan restaurant.
It won’t be long before any business operating in the public domain will find that discriminating on the basis of sexuality will prove about as popular and successful as discriminating on the basis of color or gender. People have been given a nudge in the right direction, they’ll work the rest out for themselves.
For goodness sakes Mary. You’re not even comparing like with like.
When has a cop been shot on video and the killer not even charged? Heck, show me where a cop was killed without a video and the killer not charged?
truth –
It would be REALLY fun talking with you if you:
1) Were a nice guy
2) Researched once in a while
3) Understood half of what you were talking about
4) Weren’t a jerk
Seriously – read a little on state budgets and then come back to me. I’m not in favor of a test before voting, but this is ridiculous…
You are full of yourself
I’d love to see people required to undergo an IQ test prior to voting. Once you exceed a reasonable minimum you’d be allowed to vote and it’d be wall to wall democrats in office.
I’m still deciding what you’re full of truthseeker. Others may well have already decided.
I’m just confident that I know what I’m talking about. You obviously don’t – which I don’t mind – but I teach you something – I help you with information, and then you just get mean.
I mean, take this conversation. You obviously have no idea concerning the past or present budget scenario. You’ve called me a liar and said “You seriously have to know the pile of manure you are shoveling” – all while I correct and teach you because you don’t understand!
You’re somewhere between a bully and a jerk – plain and simple. Done with this convo.
“Don’t hold your breath. I doubt most people have even heard of this officer, and even fewer care. ”
I’m in NY, and just about everyone has heard of this officer. I have not heard anyone express anything other than extreme sadness about his death, and rage bordering on hatred for the man who killed him.
No riots tend to happen when police officers are killed because their deaths are immediately recognized as tragedies, and their killers are almost always immediately and fiercely punished, as they should be. When killers face judgment and consequences, anger turns to grief and eventually to healing. When they don’t, anger turns to rage and eventually violence. People are able to “move past” the tragic deaths of police officers because our system of dealing with these deaths is just and fair and respectful of the loss that the families and the community have been forced to deal with. This is not so with a rash of deaths of civilians at the hands of police officers.
Reality, 8:45PM
Maybe they didn’t know it was a vegan restaurant.
DLPL,
You say there is justice for the slain officers? Not always. I don’t consider it justice when cop killers are turned into heroes. Or asked to speak at commencement exercises, or turned loose.
http://nypost.com/2014/10/18/nj-cop-killer-goes-free/
Ex-RINO,
When Scott Walker wins the 2016 presidential election you should run for governor of Wisconsin. Your party needs you.
“I’m not in favor of a test before voting, but this is ridiculous…”
Ex-RINO,
I have a test question for you….and I’ll give you the correct answer but you will still not be able to give the correct answer….
Prior to you posting on this thread did I know that Wisconsin has a 3.5 billion dollar structural budget deficit, or did you just “teach” me about that? The answer is that I already knew.
Question number two…
Did I know that Walker brought the state out of a structural deficit and into a surplus? Yes
So they have a $3.5 billion structural deficit right now?
Question number three….
Am I glad that Scott Walker returned the surplus to Wisconsin residents in the form of property tax refunds? Yes
Question 2 –
You are wrong
Question 3
You are wrong
Do some research and come back
With Scott Walker at the helm am I confident that any structural deficits to the state budget will be resolved and turned into a surplus again? Yes
Hi Alexandra,
I have lived longer than you and seen more. If you think an officer’s death has always been punished you are sadly mistaken.
In the city I was raised two officers came upon a couple of thugs in a breaking and entering. They pumped the officers full of lead as they begged for their lives, killing one and paralyzing and blinding the other. They got the dirtbags, who were immediately turned into heroes. They were the saviors of the black community. My brother, a police officer, told me they had rap sheets as long as your arm and ripped off drug dens and sold the heroin at a higher price. So much for being “saviors”. Yet you should have seen the letters to the editor praising these thugs. Snot nosed brats from their luxurious homes in suburbia protested the “fascism” of these pukes being tried. You guessed it, they were freed, amid much fanfare and adulation. Of course they continued to commit crimes but that was beside the point. Hopefully someone did the human race a service and offed them.
I’ve also given examples of how the killers of officers have become objects of adulation and even turned loose. If you google you will find more. I don’t consider this justice.
Ex-RINO,
You have a case of Walker Derangement Syndrome..You can’t even agree with what you yourself posted about him…
Ex-RINO,
You should consider moving to Minnesota. I think it would be a win- win.
The Wisconsin budget period is 2015 to 2017. For the last couple of years, there have been projections regarding the structural deficit or surplus that the state would have. For a while, it was seen that the state would have a surplus in the 2015 to 2017 period. This was a PROJECTION – it was not a reality. Walker thought that he could give a lot of money to the rich, it would create jobs, and we’d be good – so he put through a crappy tax cut (most people saved a very small amount) – and low and behold, jobs didn’t create as he expected. So now we have a large structural deficit (you said we have a $3.5 billion deficit – that is an incorrect number – that was from years ago), and the budget period is coming due.
By law, the state has to have a balanced budget. In the past, you have credited Walker with balancing the budget – which was a massively odd thing to credit a governor with because by law, they have to do it. So as that period comes up, the state will have to balance the books by increasing revenue or cutting spending.
So Minnesota had a deficit – raised taxes on the rich, and has seen their economy grow at a faster pace than Wisconsin, which is proposing to cut services to the poor and old so that we can keep the failed tax cuts for the rich.
Glad that once again, I can teach you how this all works. I’d like for you to just say ‘thank you’ and go on your way, but I’m guessing you are going to pretend you knew some of that, and that make a bunch of ignorant statements that simply aren’t true.
When Scott Walker wins the 2016 presidential election – I nominate this for joke of the day.
“Walker thought that he could give a lot of money to the rich, it would create jobs, and we’d be good”
That is like the third time you said he gave money to the rich t. That is a typical progressive talking point. You parrot them very well. Tell us, who are the rich people who got all that money?
” So now we have a large structural deficit (you said we have a $3.5 billion deficit – that is an incorrect number – that was from years ago)”
Oh, you got me there teacher…with a grammatical error… If you had read my previous posts you would know that I meant to say we “had” a 3.5 billion dollar deficit, not “has”. But I understand that progressive bloggers have gotta take your wins where you can find them, even if they are just grammatical. Now try and work on your comprehension skills.
“In the past, you have credited Walker with balancing the budget – which was a massively odd thing to credit a governor with because by law, they have to do it”
How massively odd is it then that by law congress is supposed to pass a federal budget every year but the first budget they passed since Obama became president is this year. That makes six straight years of our government breaking the law….but now this year because the GOP had control of both houses of congress we have elected officials who feel obliged to follow the law….hmmmm
Debating a progressive about budgets is like poking fun at a severely handicapped child. I am sorry.
Debating a progressive about budgets is like poking fun at a severely handicapped child – for you it might be. You can’t come up with anything intelligent, meaningful, accurate or of any merit whatsoever. So you just poke your tongue out and say nasty words. Because that’s all you’ve got.
Come on Reality…he brought up about how it was ‘massively odd” to credit governor Walker with putting forth a balanced budget because it is the law. I just pointed out that ‘progressive’ politicians don’t seem to feel (have a track record) obliged to follow law.
and you were wrong, again
truth – you had three questions/statements – I’ll take them in order.
First, you asked who got the cut. I’m glad I can educate you on some of how your idol Walker works.
So the states projections were looking good – so he passed a large cut – of that, 44% went to the top 20% of earners in the state. For a family making $50K a year, the cut was about $10 a month. Now, Walker believes in ‘trickle down economics’ – so his feeling was that the cuts would result in even more revenue.
That didn’t happen – instead, the state went from a projected surplus to the current large deficit. Instead of just undoing the failed tax cuts, he’s going to make cuts that results in a lot of middle class earners losing their jobs – which certainly isn’t going to help the already lagging economy in this state.
You’re welcome.
truth
I don’t think it was a grammatical error – I think you didn’t know. You clearly didn’t understand how the budget worked in general, so I can’t give you the benefit of the doubt.
On the budget statement…wrong…wrong again.
At the federal level, there’s no obligation for a passed budget.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_budget_process
Seriously…no clue
DLPL: I’m really, really trying to be optimistic and not see it like that. But you’re right, it really doesn’t seem like it’s gonna get better. Endemic issues like this are extremely difficult to fix, and with how split the political parties are, and how both sides try to undercut literally everything the others do, I don’t see much hope of a true bipartisan push to really work on this stuff.
Jack, there are always things cycling up and down, larger-degree and smaller-degree things at work; the fractal nature of change. In fairly large degree, I see a “down” cycle or “bad times” from the Depression of the 30s through WW II, then “good times” into the late 60s, “bad’ until the early 80s, and up again into 2000. From then, it’s been rather sideways, with smaller ups and downs inscribed in that time.
I see all of the above occurring against a backdrop of rising debt, debt the likes of such the world has never seen. When this tide reverses in earnest, it should be something to see, to put it mildly.
For what it’s worth, I’ve been concerned about this for decades, and of course I don’t have a crystal ball. We may go on, with relative stability, for years yet, even decades. Nobody knows when the big crunch will come. We are in uncharted territory, with the now interconnected world financial system, where events happen in real time, instantly. Nobody knows what’s going to happen, exactly.
To this point, there either has been separation, i.e. one country failing may not mean much to others, or as one fails, there are others to step in and support it, prevent the worst from happening.
There’s nobody big enough to catch the U.S., if it falls. There is also the old saying, “When the US economy gets a cold, the world gets pneumonia.”
So, we wait and see, and the old thing about “interesting times” applies.
Ex-GOP: May 3, 2015 at 7:39 pm
I owe you a good reply; next couple days hopefully. Bad case of carpal-tunnel here, worst of my life.
Doug
“so he passed a large cut – of that, 44% went to the top 20% of earners in the state.”
Proportionally that seems like the lower income got got a much larger share of the tax break since 97% of all individual income taxes are paid by the top 50% of earners. Glad I could educate you.
“At the federal level, there’s no obligation for a passed budget.”
You are correct on that one point. Even a squirrel funds a nut sometimes. But the Democrat controlled houses of congress under Obama didn’t even bother to propose budgets.
Gruberisms and Obama and Hillary come from the same vein. Hillary openly destroys evidence off the server she kept her government emails on rather than let them be made public. Lois Lerner pleads the fifth and refuses to testify about what she did as an IRS employee and she is protected by Eric Holder and the DOJ.
It goes beyond the pale of partisan politics to being terrible human beings.
There is no denying that the Democrat leaders lie without scruples or conscience just to get their end result. It’s all about winning to them. I know you don’t like to let proof or facts get in your way but here is proof
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPYdNxYgxEA
truth
Your ignorance continues to amaze me, even as you try to slam me with your education comment.
The 97% number is a FEDERAL level.
We are talking about the STATE of Wisconsin.
The STATE has different revenue streams – federal revenue, state tax revenue (we have something called a SALES tax along with our STATE income taxes).
So what Walker did was essentially a big money shift – if you think of it in the opposite order, he will cut a bunch of middle class jobs to pay for a tax break that helped middle class families to a tune of about $10 a month.
Again though, my point is maintained and not challenged that his way of doing things is not working – we lag our neighbors in all key economic indicators. Not working.
You can simply admit you like rhetoric over results and we’re good. Just say “I don’t care if it works or not, if I like how they do it, that’s more important than what they accomplish”.
One last time though – we are in the STATE of Wisconsin. You are pulling numbers and arguments from the FEDERAL level, for the UNITED STATES – the whole country.
I can’t even read your last comments…I’m just floored at how much I continually have to drag you along…
“The 97% number is a FEDERAL level.”
I am aware of that. Since you are the one who referenced it originally then you should tell us, what is the Wisconsin state level for the top 20% of taxpayers that received? Is it proportionally higher than the 40% of tax refund they received? I doubt you even know.
“I can’t even read your last comments…”
lol let me post it again for you so you can practice your dodging…
Gruberisms and Obama and Hillary come from the same vein. Hillary openly destroys evidence off the server she kept her government emails on rather than let them be made public. Lois Lerner pleads the fifth and refuses to testify about what she did as an IRS employee and she is protected by Eric Holder and the DOJ.
It goes beyond the pale of partisan politics to being terrible human beings.
There is no denying that the Democrat leaders lie without scruples or conscience just to get their end result. It’s all about winning to them. I know you don’t like to let proof or facts get in your way but here is proof
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPYdNxYgxEA
Oh, of course you knew! Of course, when talking about STATE taxes, you would respond with FEDERAL statistics, and not post anything like “I know these are federal stats, but I’m guessing they are applicable…”
Of course, because truth is NEVER wrong.
I hope somebody else helps your kids with homework.
Nice dodge. Lets try again..
Since you are the one who referenced it originally then you should tell us, what is the Wisconsin state level for the top 20% of taxpayers that received? Is it proportionally higher than the 40% of tax refund they received? I doubt you even know.
Ex-RINO,
What is the percentage of total individual taxes paid by the citizens on top 20% income bracket? Is it proportionally higher than the 40% of tax refund they received? You really should try and educate yourself about the things you say.
50,000%
So you’re getting off topic. Research and figure it out yourself. It doesn’t matter if it’s 99% or 1%.
The point is, and back to my original statements – Walker put in place a failed policy, and now to make up for it, instead of just undoing the foolish cut, he’s axing a bunch of other spending that will result in other job cuts.
And for a Governor that already has a bad record, that isn’t going to help him.
Again, if you care more about the rhetoric than results, continue to love the guy.
“So you’re getting off topic. Research and figure it out yourself. It doesn’t matter if it’s 99% or 1%.”
lol… classic
Right up there with Hillary’s Ben Ghazi dodge/testimony when she said “what difference at this point does it make.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka0_nz53CcM
Of course, Ex-RINO, Hillary, Harry Reid, Obama and the rest of the progressive statists are NEVER wrong because when they are wrong they just lie or dodge questions and say he facts/truth doesn’t matter…the only thing that matters to them is winning elections. And they never found a tax cut that they liked.
OMG,
This guys a professor and he thinks we can solve the social injustice problem by eliminating the family and making it a more even playing field for everybody.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417997/professor-if-you-read-your-kids-youre-unfairly-disadvantaging-others-katherine-timpf
Ex-GOP: 1) My initial post was in reaction to the fact that there’s two GOP parties right now – and the hard right is on display in a couple of states – two worth looking at are Kansas and Wisconsin. I live in Wisconsin, so it is easier for me to talk to (though reading on Kansas and their failures is interesting) – and with a hard right GOP everything in Wisconsin, we’ve been failing while the states around us are moving forward. While others have surpluses, we have deficits. While others are growing, we’re struggling. And the response isn’t adjustment, like Reagan would have done, but a double down on failed policies. I think the GOP used to be a solid party that could move the country forward. Now they are a party of fear, governed by emotion and not intelligence, and they seem to attack through policy those that are threats.
I don’t really know much about individual states right now (and by chance I’m in Kansas). If it is the case that Republican governors are under substantial control by certain people or factions, then for them to cut taxes for the wealthy would be no surprise. I don’t know what the perfect point is for progressive taxes, but past a point it (cutting taxes) indeed makes for a state having a harder time, economically, without enough offsetting benefit.
Reagan had the “trickle down” economic theory, and now some of his major advisors have said that it did not work. In the end, the very wealthy benefitted a lot, while the rest barely gained at all, or stayed the same. It would not matter much to me, except that we’ve been running huge federal gov’t deficits all along. I think we want too much out of gov’t, for what we are willing to put into it.
2) I think there is PLENTY of blame on the Democratic party regarding the downfall of inner cities and the problems cities like Baltimore faces. I do think the main fault is jumping on the ‘tough on crime’ bandwagon in hopes of appeasing voters – and we’ve seen the end results. We’ve essentially created a culture where crime will thrive – incentivize those managing that crime – have turned incarceration into big business – and now we wonder where the fathers are? Obama has blame on his hands – under his administration, police departments continued to get military gear and become more about warring against citizens than policing.
I do think the drug laws need revamping, and that we are getting to a time when there will be enough support for it. Probably will be too little too late, in several respects. I doubt there is any real “cure” for inner cities, though, from any political party. Not that they are simply doomed, forever – obviously some are doing all right, and there is the possibility of favorable change.
I don’t think it comes from political parties, though – it comes from time and money. No way to “save them all,” have to let nature take its course. People move away, parts of cities die. Maybe later on enough people, being able to start fresh, come in and revitalize it. St. Louis is a good example, and it’s the “Millenials” that are responsible.
That 20 to 29 year old age group is more mobile than the others – it’s there that the ebb and flow is really pronounced, while other age groups track much more closely together, in both rising and falling cities. Big net in-migration of that age is what you want, for a successful city.
There are some efforts in Detroit, for example, but I still wonder – why in the heck would anybody want to move to Detroit or Baltimore? Decline begets decline, and political posturing is a waste, and I think it’s a waste of money to try and turn back the clock or pretend that we can fight established trends.
What’s sad to me though is in any of these situations – Baltimore and Ferguson are the two latest examples – the right wing looks for a quick scapegoat to ignore the uncomfortable questions of how we got here. To Mary’s credit, she asks good questions and seems to see multiple sides of the coin (most of the time) – but it pains me to see exhaustive reports come out regarding systematic racism within Ferguson for years, and the only take away the right wing got was that the hands-up don’t shoot probably didn’t happen. But they ignore everything else.
I agree that Mary often has a sensible viewpoint. I don’t think she is invested too heavily as an idealogue, whereas obviously many people are. We don’t get many maxxed-out, coo-coo for cocoa puffs liberals here, but they are definitely out there, sometimes boiled down to “tax the rich more, so we can set everybody else to rights.” That’s just not going to work.
I had not read up on Ferguson until today, and it’s surprising how extreme and pervasive the racism has been. Agreed that the Michael Brown case is not representative of it – really probably has nothing to do with it. I think he was an idiotic thug, and if he’d been shot by the shopkeeper who he’d just robbed and assaulted, I’d be fine with that. Good riddance.
I am not at all giving Democrats a pass, but per what you said about the GOP or the “right wing,” for them to keep their heads in the sand and proceed as if “our way is the *right way*, necessarily,” is nonsensical.
One specific example is the gov’t of Ferguson, which truly did not reflect the constituency. There was a very “unusual” election calendar, where one finds it hard not to believe that it was intended to help keep whites in charge. After Ferguson blew up, some people in Ferguson began voter registration drives. In a Democracy, how best to peacefully change things than by voting?
So then here comes Missouri Republican Party executive director Matt Wills, saying, ““I think it’s not only disgusting but completely inappropriate.” He further said it was “injecting race” into what was going on. Well, that is just insanity. Race was most certainly already a big factor in the unrest in Ferguson. I would also say that were voter registration drives underway in communities that had majority white populations, then ol’ Matt Wills would probably have been tickled pink.
If the GOP acts “wacky,” I think some of it comes from fear – fear of the future and of the undeniable demographic shifts that are hurting their popularity. Decades hence, it’s going to be a different playing field for politicians, and no wishing for a “steady state” can change that.
Well, thank you for the kind words gentlemen.
Overall Mary seems level-headed but sometimes she can’t help herself and falls back on racism while making her points. One time Ex-GOP actually caught her referring to black people as thugs.
Ex-RINO, do you deny that Harry Reid lies without scruples or conscience just to help Democrats win elections?
Tough news in the Wisconsin budget today – no revenue increase – the tax cuts continue to not put forth any economic growth.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/no-hike-in-revenue-estimates-forces-tough-budget-decisions-b99495357z1-302763911.html
Hi ts,
Hey, no one is perfect. I have always judged one to be a thug by their actions, not their skin color. I am grateful to our more enlightened posters who point out that it is in fact skin color, and not actions, that determine if one is a thug.
Doug – it will take a couple reads to digest your post – in the meantime, a good article on your home state.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121068/kansas-tax-cuts-deplete-budget-brownback-proposes-more-cuts
“the tax cuts continue to not put forth any economic growth”
Ex-RINO, you are a prototype statist progressive….to you, taking peoples money and giving it to the government is the way to economic growth.
Ex-RINO, is Hillary Clinton as cut-throat and dishonest as Harry Reid?
Doug – it will take a couple reads to digest your post – in the meantime, a good article on your home state.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121068/kansas-tax-cuts-deplete-budget-brownback-proposes-more-cuts
Ex-GOP, good read there on Kansas (and I think Brownback is a total goof), but am only working in Kansas for a few days. My residence of record is Atlanta, GA, after it being Ohio for most of my life, with 4 years in Canada (Nova Scotia).
Over 30 years now on this job, “on the road.”
Frankly, Kansas is mighty boring.
Overall Mary seems level-headed but sometimes she can’t help herself and falls back on racism while making her points. One time Ex-GOP actually caught her referring to black people as thugs.
Truthseeker, you are such a grouch. : P
Doug –
Agree on Kansas.
Good thoughts on the two parties. I suppose I’ll sum up my thoughts as this. I like politicians of either party that put who they are serving above their party and other interests.
I liked McCain when he was in the primary against Bush. I like what I know about Kasich. I liked Paul Wellstone. I like Russ Feingold. In all those cases, you have politicians that serve the people first, and their party second.
That’s my issue with Kansas and Wisconsin right now – you have two governors who care more about adhering to some sort of political value rather than doing what is right for their state. I wish there was a law that said if you were running for a different job, you couldn’t hold the one you’re in. Walker is running for President while trying to be a governor, and he’s doing a miserable job at his actual job (for people who value results over rhetoric).
What I like about Walker is that he stands his ground and doesn’t cave to political pressures.
Yep, he makes a good pressure vessel. All pumped up and full of air.
Agreed – he’s like General Pickett – he doesn’t care how badly it is going – he’s going to keep doing what he’s doing!
Walker stands his ground:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/walker-should-stick-to-his-decision-on-kenosha-casino-b99442511z1-291428811.html
Truthseeker, one casino or not is a fairly isolated thing. Personally, I’d be for the new casino, but they would have to have a good buffet.
truth
I’m not sure why you posted that article – trying to prove he cares more about WI than his conservative values? Trying to prove he cares about the economy of the state?
All I get from the article is that when faced with the possibility of finding a way for the public to not have to finance a billionaire’s basketball stadium, Walker wants to ensure that the public pays for it. No?
Ex-GOP: I liked McCain when he was in the primary against Bush. I like what I know about Kasich. I liked Paul Wellstone. I like Russ Feingold. In all those cases, you have politicians that serve the people first, and their party second.
That’s my issue with Kansas and Wisconsin right now – you have two governors who care more about adhering to some sort of political value rather than doing what is right for their state. I wish there was a law that said if you were running for a different job, you couldn’t hold the one you’re in. Walker is running for President while trying to be a governor, and he’s doing a miserable job at his actual job (for people who value results over rhetoric).
I don’t know about Kansas City as a whole, but small-town Kansas has a ton of shuttered businesses. Brownback’s tax cuts featured small-business being made exempt from state income tax, presumably to lure in new businesses. The result, however, is mainly that people with already-existing operations, dentists, auto repairers, painters, etc., are incorporating in droves, just to escape paying the tax. Part of the huge deficit.
Brownback is indeed “doubling down” on what now are clearly revealed as dumb policies. I think of him as an old, ossified, just about half-a-lunatic, but he’s only 2.5 years older than me.
I think the time is ripe for a better type of conservative, one that would have a lot of appeal to moderates and many within the Democratic party.
Barry Goldwater used to be the “arch conservative.” The hijacking of the GOP by the religious Right is a fairly recent thing. Goldwater, for example, initially was for a school prayer amendment and tax breaks, but when the intolerant religious Right came in, he had second thoughts.
Some goldwater quotes:
“The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others.”
“Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell’s a$$.”
“I’m not sure why you posted that article”
I posted it to show you that Walker is not your typical politician who will take kick-backs in order to put through deals that are not in the peoples best interest. The way he operates as governor and his decisions as governor are based on will not be based on cronyism and payola. I know how difficult it will be for him to win a presidential election without playing dirty politics but it would be a refreshing change to have somebody like Scott Walker in the White House.
Stand with Walker
“I think the time is ripe for a better type of conservative, one that would have a lot of appeal to moderates and many within the Democratic party.”
I agree Doug. Scott Walker has shown he has appeal from the moderates and some in the Democratic party by winning Wisconsin’s governor election three times in the past six years. Wisconsin voted overwhelmingly for Barack Obama over that same period. Scott Walker is able to maintain the support of moderates but the left-wing fringe hates him with a passion cause he took away their payola when he stripped away mandatory union dues in Wisconsin.
The way he operates as governor and his decisions as governor are based on will not be based on cronyism and payola.
Truthseeker, you are incorrect about Walker, there. He is cronyism, embodied.
He’s done it all along – when he was Milwaukee County Executive, he improperly used resources for political purposes and had all sorts of “wrong” stuff going on. He was exceedingly lucky not to be prosecuted in the FBI investigation into those goings-on, but 6 people – one of his appointees, a campaign donor, and four of Walker’s aides were convicted. Walker’s messages to those people clearly show that he was desperate to try and keep things hidden.
As Governor, he gave a job to Cindy Archer, one of his former aides – one where Walker is very lucky (and obviously thankful) that she didn’t spill the beans about the Milwaukee County crimes.
Other people had applied for the job, including more qualified people, yet Archer gets the job, despite not applying for it. Walker pays her 31% more than what the previous person got, and it’s even more than the top pay for the position posted in the recruiting notice for the job that had been sent out.
This is all while Walker says, “We’re broke” when he proposes budgets.
C’mon, man – don’t even talk about Walker like cronyism isn’t massively present.
truth
Was the tribe offering a kickback to Walker? I see the tribe offering a deal with the state to cover tax revenues – but ‘kickback’ typically refers to a political contribution.
If you are claiming Walker doesn’t fold to that – than I’m assuming that specific tribe gave a lot of money to him, but he’s not doing what they want?
Scott Walker has shown he has appeal from the moderates and some in the Democratic party by winning Wisconsin’s governor election three times in the past six years.
Truthseeker, do you really see Walker as anything but a puppet for the Koch brothers?
His popularity in Wisconsin is back down to where it was during the 2011 protests – his lowest ratings ever.
If Walker was a Democrat or a “liberal,” you and others would be screaming for his head. ; )
“He’s done it all along – when he was Milwaukee County Executive, he improperly used resources for political purposes and had all sorts of “wrong” stuff going on.”
Doug,
You seem to be a fair-minded person and I challenge you to find examples of Walker actually taking payola.
I have been around long enough to know that people can be prosecuted for anything and the prosecution and charges does not mean there was any wrong stuff going on. I know the left went after Walker as governor and especially during the recall election and tried everything they could to attack not only Walker but also any conservative groups that supported him. Milwaukee DA John Chilsolm used Wisconsin’s John Doe laws which grant extraordinary powers to investigators to compel testimony. All evidence and testimony are presented to a judge and can be kept secret. He issued subpoenas, search warrants and pre-dawn raids break into the homes and offices of conservative organizations (including pro-life organizations) and confiscated their computers etc. This was all part of the broader current Democrat party’s tactic to use their current government powers to do all they can to go after political opponents. There was never any evidence of any wrong-doing found and the feral judge went so far as to force the Wisconsin Government Accountability Board (GAB) to post his ruling on their web-site. Here is part of an article describing the federal judge’s ruling on this. Once again it really shows how the Democrats have no scruples and once in office they are willing to use the full powers of their government positions to attack political opponents.
Wisconsin Right to Life noted that the order from Clevert, a Clinton appointee to the bench, permanently enjoins Government Accountability Board (“GAB”) members and Milwaukee County district attorney John Chisholm from:
? Administering or civilly enforcing unconstitutional Wisconsin law against any person or combination of two or more persons, or
? Criminally investigating or prosecuting (or referring for investigation or prosecution) any such person or persons under unconstitutional Wisconsin law.
“Consistent with the Seventh Circuit’s 2014 opinion in Wisconsin Right to Life, Inc. v. Barland (“Barland-II”), the district court strikes down Wisconsin law triggering political-committee and political-committee-like burdens: The critical parts of Wisconsin’s statutory committee-or-political-committee definition, GAB 1.28, and GAB 1.91,” continued Weininger….
The district court also limits related, vague Wisconsin law regarding what has the “purpose of influencing” elections to Buckley express advocacy or to appeal-to-vote speech (f/k/a the “functional equivalent of express advocacy”), yet appeal-to-vote speech is not a form of express advocacy. So this holding does not affect the principle that “Wisconsin may trigger political-committee or political-committee-like burdens only for organizations that have the ‘major purpose’ of ‘express advocacy.’”
The district court’s order also enjoins:
? Wisconsin’s ban on corporate disbursements, because it violates the First Amendment.
? Wisconsin law regulating speech based on whether it “supports or condemns” candidates’ positions on issues, stances on issues, and public records, because “supports or condemns” is unconstitutionally vague.
? Wisconsin’s regulatory attribution and disclaimer requirements as applied to radio ads of 30 seconds or fewer, because they take up most of the 30 seconds.
? Wisconsin’s limit on what organizations such as WRTL spend to solicit contributions to their own political committees.
The district court orders GAB to make the Seventh Circuit opinions and the district-court order available to the public free of charge on the homepage of GAB’s website.
If you are interested, one of the organizations unfairly attacked for supporting governor Walker was the Wisconsin Club for Growth and they are looking to sue the Milwaukee DA John Chisolm for redress but even more importantly to keep these elected Democrats from using the power of their elected office to silence political opponents.
http://www.campaignfreedom.org/2015/02/20/okeefe-v-chisholm-amicus-brief-on-petition-for-a-writ-of-certiorari/
“Truthseeker, do you really see Walker as anything but a puppet for the Koch brothers?”
omg…you sound like Harry Reid on the floor of the senate. Next you will probably claim Walker hasn’t paid any taxes in the last six years : <)
If somebody spent millions to fund something I did, I’m sure I wouldn’t feel any obligation to them at all! (sarcasm…)
Every single politician at anything other than the local level are a slave to the donations they’ve received – they just are – and for somebody to claim that one party is dirty and indebted, and the other party isn’t – that’s just ignorant.
omg…you sound like Harry Reid on the floor of the senate. Next you will probably claim Walker hasn’t paid any taxes in the last six years : <)
No idea on those taxes. But after seeing the transcript of the conversation between Walker and a journalist who Walker thought was one of the Koch brothers, it’s obvious what is going on. Heck, it was obvious anyway.
You seem to be a fair-minded person and I challenge you to find examples of Walker actually taking payola.
I think it’s much more the case that Walker employs unfair, even illegal cronyism for those who support him. I mentioned the Cindy Archer deal. There is also the case of Dave Irwin and Dan Blackdeer – at first Walker maintained that state rules had been followed as far as giving retroactive raises to Irwin and a then-current raise to Blackdeer by transferring them to fake jobs for a week.
When the news of this got out, Walker then admitted that it was “improper,” and took back the retroactive raise.
This is yet another clear example of Walker cronyism – had nobody found out about it, the pay of those two guys would have gotten a large boost by creating imaginary positions for them – the thinking being that after a week or so, they’d “go back” to their real jobs while retaining the big pay boost. This is while Walker gave state workers a whole 1% in pay increase, the first increase in four years, and even then intending to take back most of that 1% via higher employee contributions for pension and insurance.
This is blatant and obvious cronyism.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/dnr-ousts-longtime-operator-of-environmental-center-b9991886z1-222615021.html
Here is another clear case of cronyism. The deal was that the state was to give a $500,000 dollar contract for outdoor training, pursuant to encouraging more people to hunt and fish in Wisconsin.
Rather than submit it for open bidding, Republican Assembly Majority Leader Scott Suder hid it in the state budget, and worded it to exclude many qualifying organizations.
Without notice being given, there was only one bidder – United Sportsmen of Wisconsin – a group with zero history of outdoor education, rather – only lobbying for Koch Brothers priorities, and which would use the money to pay salaries to John Meegan, head of the Sauk County Tea Party, Annette Olson, another Tea Party leader, and Luke Hilgemann – Suder’s former Chief of Staff and who has led the Tea Party group of one of the Koch brothers, that Koch brother starting it and providing funding.
Had it remained hidden,nobody else would have known, but once Walker thought the word was getting out, he canceled the grant.
If one wants to see “payola,” then the contributions from the Koch Brothers – which clearly come with many quid-pro-quos – would be a good example for Scott Walker.
It definitely works the other way, at the same time – Walker’s payments to Koch Brothers functionaries and to those who the Kochs want money to flow to, being in evidence.
Amazing that all you could find was three individuals who got raises.
And two of those raises were returned when brought to light. That borders on incredibly squeaky clean for a governor. And with the evidence I showed you of how the Milwaukee DA and the Democrats (including Obama and the unions) went after Walker as aggressively as possible and that is all anybody could find. To me that proves how clean and impartial he really is. He has been vettted completely already. There is nothing bad there or they would have found it.
Doug,
What do you think of the John Doe investigations against Walker and his supporters? Do you agree with the federal judge (a Democratically appointed judge from the Chicago district no less) who deemed it to be a politically motivated witch hunt?
“Had it remained hidden,nobody else would have known, but once Walker thought the word was getting out, he canceled the grant.”
Seriously, Scott Walker used his line item veto to strike a supporters grant OUT of the Wisconsin budget and this is the only/best example of his cronyism that you could find?
TS: Amazing that all you could find was three individuals who got raises.
How many clear examples of cronyism do you need? There are likely more out there, plain to see. There are likely more out there that remain hidden, as well. The point is that Walker is more a poster-child for engaging in it, versus what you maintained – that his decisions as governor will not be based on cronyism.
What do you think of the John Doe investigations against Walker and his supporters? Do you agree with the federal judge (a Democratically appointed judge from the Chicago district no less) who deemed it to be a politically motivated witch hunt?
Hard for me to see it as a “witch hunt,” when there were at least six convictions. It is in the public record – there was wrongdoing and some people got caught. While Walker was not convicted of anything, as far as I know, it is beyond the bounds of reasonable belief that he knew nothing of what was going on.
– – – – –
“Had it remained hidden,nobody else would have known, but once Walker thought the word was getting out, he canceled the grant.”
Seriously, Scott Walker used his line item veto to strike a supporters grant OUT of the Wisconsin budget and this is the only/best example of his cronyism that you could find?
Good grief, Truthseeker, it’s not the only example – you know that yourself – but it’s a very good one. The timing of things shows that he only canceled it after he saw that people were discovering what was going on.
Walker is clearly beholden to the Koch Brothers. There are quid-pro-quos at work. For $500,000 of Wisconsin state money to be given to the Tea Party – you see nothing wrong with this?
“For $500,000 of Wisconsin state money to be given to the Tea Party – you see nothing wrong with this?”
No, that would not be right. I thought you were talking about the Wisconsin Sportsman’s Association and they are more about hunting and trap shooting and archery. When was $500,000 was given to the Tea Party?
“How many clear examples of cronyism do you need”
A lot more than three individuals to claim cronyism. And he retracted the raises for two of them. Compare that to the cronyism on steroids that exists in the Democrat party where thousands of teachers do that same type of ‘job shuffling’ to get raises? They retire after 20 years and then go back to work and continue to collect both their pensions and their salaries. The Democrats shamelessly do it out in the open and wouldn’t think of returning any raise when they get ‘caught’. Seriously, you are getting on Walker for three people when for decades the Democrats have been doing that same thing for thousands of cronies.
“Hard for me to see it as a “witch hunt,”
All six of those convictions were from one investigation. The ‘witch hunt’ had no convictions. Did you not read the links I posted or did you just choose not to address it?
“How many clear examples of cronyism do you need”
Truthseeker: A lot more than three individuals to claim cronyism.
No, dude – he does it and he’s got a pattern of such activites. He does not have to be a serial killer, he just has to confirm that what you said about him is false, and he’s done that.
And he retracted the raises for two of them.
Heh – yeah, because he got caught. Duh.
Compare that to the cronyism on steroids that exists in the Democrat party where thousands of teachers do that same type of ‘job shuffling’ to get raises? They retire after 20 years and then go back to work and continue to collect both their pensions and their salaries.
TS, you are being ridiculous. Comparing Walker with a political party is senseless. The point is that what you said about him is dead wrong. Nobody claimed that similar things don’t go on elsewhere.
What do you mean, exactly, by thousands of teachers do that same type of ‘job shuffling’ to get raises?
All six of those convictions were from one investigation. The ‘witch hunt’ had no convictions.
:: laughing :: Okay, so six people get convicted, due to one investigation. Meanwhile, a different investigation was conducted improperly (not even bothering to argue whether it was actually improper or not here) and you maintain that it somehow alters the guilt of the convicted?
– – – – –
Did you not read the links I posted or did you just choose not to address it?
TS, you mean this, eh? —>
If you are interested, one of the organizations unfairly attacked for supporting governor Walker was the Wisconsin Club for Growth and they are looking to sue the Milwaukee DA John Chisolm for redress but even more importantly to keep these elected Democrats from using the power of their elected office to silence political opponents.
http://www.campaignfreedom.org/2015/02/20/okeefe-v-chisholm-amicus-brief-on-petition-for-a-writ-of-certiorari/
That petition/brief/motion may mean nothing at all. It depends on what later happened. What’s gone on in the last three months?
How can you possibly mean that the Wisconsin Club for Growth was “unfairly attacked”?
Wisconsin law makes it illegal for public officials to coordinate activities with outside political groups, with respect to campaigns. Walker personally requested contributions that were to be made to the Wisconsin Club for Growth, millions of Dollars worth. This is a matter of public record. Why in the world would you think there should not be an investigation?
There is further damning evidence against Walker in this matter. During that time, Gogebic Taconite gave $700,000 – again, it’s public record. Later, Walker approved a change in regulations that the company requested for its iron mine.
As Walker was coordinating things at the time of Gogebic’s donation, how in the heck would anybody be blind enough not to see at least the possibility of corruption that should be investigated, there?
I don’t know why you two care so much about Scott Walker and if he’s super dirty, or just a little dirty. News flash – all politicians are dirty – every single one of them.
Walker is simply a bad governor. He is a career politician who has risen beyond his competence. By any objective fiscal measure, he’s been a failure for Wisconsin, and governor of Wisconsin is the highest office he’ll ever win.
Because he is the god of cronyism. : P