China’s house of cards: High rate of female suicide linked to one-child policy?
Chinese women did not used to commit suicide at five times the world average, and it’s not normal that suicide is the number-one cause of death for young women in China….
But when asked, nobody knew the root causes. We as an organization felt strongly that it is related to the one-child policy, because we looked at the rate increasing after the policy was established.
~ Tessa Dale of All Girls Allowed, as quoted by One News Now, May 2
[Image via thinkquest.org]
May.03, 2012 12:20 am |
Population, Post-abortion |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
The Chinese government probably doesn’t see this as a problem. After all, suicide is also a method of population control.
The high female suicide rate is often in the rural areas. It is very difficult for women there as it is acceptable in certain parts of the country for husbands to beat their wives. I believe these conditions combined with their lack of a way out (little education, money, etc) is the prime driver.
When a society devalues one kind of human life, all human life in that society is devalued.
Well, this is only to be expected when women’s bodies are considered state property. Shall we compare suicide rates in China to those of states beneath equally repressive, pro-natalist regimes?
OOH, HUSH, Y’ALL!!
Megan’s gonna bust on Mississippi some more!! This ought to be GOOD!!
No, I wasn’t but I’d be delighted for you to refute what you thought I was going to say by touting Mississippi as the pro-life success it is. High rates of poverty, high rates of HIV, low high school graduation rates, but like, LESS THAN ONE ABORTION CLINIC!!!!111eleventy! You must be so_proud.
Canada has endorsed through silence and inaction sex selective abortions.
Does anyone know which country kills the most preborn on a per capita basis?
So what you’re saying is if there were more abortion clinics in MS, the rates of poverty, HIV, and education would be lower? Really? So our legal right to kill our children before they’re born directly correlates to a person(s)’ personal success? Really?
Wait a minute, Megan, that sounds a lot like the argument you make for your own abortion. Huh.
Chinese American women have a high suicide rate too, I wonder why?
Yes, let’s open an abortion clinic on every corner in Mississippi, and watch those yucky poor people and their nasty problems disappear!
Pronatalist? I learn something new every day here!
“Yes, let’s open an abortion clinic [crisis pregnancy center] on every corner in Mississippi, and watch those yucky poor people and their nasty problems disappear!”
There, I fixed that statement to reflect the current strategy in place.
I don’t know what effect more widely-accessible abortion would have on poverty levels and educational attainment in MS. But I do know that for a state with such heavy pro-life activity, MS isn’t exactly delivering the expected goods. There’s probably a 1:1 crisis pregnancy center to embryo ratio in Jackson, but yet maternal and infant mortality rates are staggeringly high, and pregnant adolescents can pretty much kiss further education goodbye.
FYI, I didn’t bring up MS, you did.
I have actually lived in MS, and know it to be a sweet place to live, but no matter. The same human beings live in Vermont and California as they do in Mississippi. The problems there are gravely entrenched, as I’ve witnessed, but the idea that (1) women are not being helped by crisis pregnancy centers is patently false and (2) the collective You can abort (Read KILL) their way to a better life is ludicrous, even as you grasp away, Megan.
FYI, lynching didn’t do anything for racism either.
I’ve come to the conclusion that abortion access is not actually an important determinant in maternal mortality and the like. After all the best countries in the world in those respects are basically Ireland, where abortion is illegal and a bunch of northern European countries where abortion is legal. I could be mistaken, I probably should look up the statistics.
JDC, it’s one of those many peices make a pie things. Those countries you mentioned do have the best maternal/neonate mortality rates in the world. The fact that Ireland leads is proof positive that abortion *doesn’t help* maternal mortality. But a lot of those other countries that are ahead of the U.S., while they allow abortion have much lower rates of abortion or much stricter restrictions (like limiting it to 1st trimester). Another huge point for maternal mortality/morbidity is these countries tend to have much higher rates of midwife attended births, which statistically leads to better outcomes in low to mid risk pregnancies than OB attended births. Most also have lower c-section rates. The U.S. is (as of 2011 anywhere) 51st for maternal mortality. Realistically, aside from denying access to standard sanitation and basic medicine, the U.S. could hardly do worse in our treatment of pregnancies/pregnant women. And it all factors into it: horrendously high abortion on demand throughout pregnancy, unnecessary interventions, OB standardized care, poor diet, and even things like, yes, rampant contraceptive use which tends to delay pregnancies to a later maternal age.
Thanks, Jespren. Yes, realistically the matter is too complicated to simply look rates and say you have the answers.
and pregnant adolescents can pretty much kiss further education goodbye.
And we all know that a woman with a further education is a better human and better for society than a less-educated loving mother.
“So what you’re saying is if there were more abortion clinics in MS, the rates of poverty, HIV, and education would be lower?”
Not at all. I’m guessing that she’s just wondering why Mississippi’s vibrant “culture of life” hasn’t translated into living standards that would place it somewhere above dead last when measured against other states. Doesn’t that seem conspicuous to you? That a state that can do so much to impede the ability to have an abortion within its borders can’t or won’t do anything to increase its miserable standing in various quality-of-life indices?
“And we all know that a woman with a further education is a better human and better for society than a less-educated loving mother.”
It’s a matter of opportunity. Education is the key to upward mobility. Poor teen mothers are just going to perpetuate the cycle of poverty for themselves and their offspring.
and pregnant adolescents can pretty much kiss further education goodbye.
Not always. There are quite a few who go on to higher education, but it certainly isn’t easy.
You always have the opportunity not to get pregnant.
Getting your education at the expense of your child makes you dumber than any teenage mom.
I don’t buy the ides that rural women have a higher suicide rate because their country husbands beat them. If that were the main factor, we would have seen higher numbers before the one-child policy.
More likely reasons would be unchecked thugs in the country enforcing a policy that is counter-cultural to rural Chinese people as a whole. A large number of children means status and help on the farm for women. Siblings are eachothers friends and a comfort to their parents in a healthy rural family. The state’s policy and it’s often brutal enforcement stripped rural Chinese of their way of life, making rural living more difficult and less rewarding.
Hey, Megan! Mothers Day is coming soon. While you may not be able to hear a thank you from your own child, I sincerely hope you get a chance to thank your pro-natalist mom! :). Without he pro-natalist views, you wouldn’t be alive.
Megan is probably planning on sending her a card thanking her for allowing her to use her body for 9 months. After all, that was really nice and not just what should have been expected in the situation. :)
I wonder how many of the women who committed suicide were the subjects of One Child Policy enforcement? That would be a revealing detail. But of course, in a dictatorship they’d never tip their hand so freely. According to Project Rachel, post-abortive women are 155% more likely to have suicidal behaviors. So, it’s not exactly a wild assumption they’re making.
“I’m guessing that she’s just wondering why Mississippi’s vibrant “culture of life” hasn’t translated into living standards that would place it somewhere above dead last when measured against other states.”
Depending on how you define “living standards”, dead last in the US is still well above the majority of people around the world, including cultures where abortion is legal or even mandatory. The average standard of living for a Mississippian is higher than the average standard of living for someone from China.
GDP per capita in 2010 —
Mississippi: $32,967 per person
China: $ 7,600 per person
Those poor abortion apologists. Some of them whine that Margaret Sanger’s views were outdated and these are different times and we pro-lifers are so mean to throw 1930’s rhetoric back in their wee little faces. All the while, the most rabid abortionistas uphold and defend every negative eugenic thought that flitted through Maggie’s granite head (it matches her stony heart).
Pssst, abortion apologists: Joan, cc, Megan, and Ruth Bader Ginsberg are all proving you wrong. These aren’t different times. Planned Parenthood’s mission is still negative racist eugenics. Their kill-the-poor-for-their-own-good rhetoric reminds me of a Bond villain: “I don’t except you to talk, I expect you to die!”
Well, this is only to be expected when women’s bodies are considered state property. Shall we compare suicide rates in China to those of states beneath equally repressive, pro-natalist regimes?
I don’t know of any pro-natalist regimes with policies comparable to Communist China. In the real world, the closest you can probably get is Communist Romania. But even there, they didn’t set quotas on minimum family size or have family planning officials forcibly inseminate women. As far as I know, women with too few children were not thrown in prison or fined into bankruptcy. You’ll probably have to crack open a Margaret Atwood book to learn about such a regime, though I doubt it or any other work of fiction would have the data you’re looking for.
Pro-lifers aren’t out to force anyone to have children. I would be equally fine with someone choosing to have no children or 20 children. What I’m opposed to is someone choosing to kill their children before or after birth, as well as laws that allow this. And there is indeed data suggesting that implementing policies favoured by pro-life advocates do not necessarily jeopardize women’s health:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/288089/new-research-public-health-benefits-pro-life-laws-michael-j-new
Doh, I spelled “expect” wrong!
But isn’t if funny how abortionistas throw out the word “regime” whenever they don’t like anything? W. Bush’s presidency was constantly referred to by them as a regime, but never, ever would they dare call Barry “I live to do Cecile’s bidding” Obama’s administration a “regime.”
You could call Vatican city a pro-life “regime,” except I don’t notice a lot of forcibly pregnant women trudging around St. Peter’s square. I guess Benny keeps them all in the basement, ;>)!
“I don’t know what effect more widely-accessible abortion would have on poverty levels and educational attainment in MS. But I do know that for a state with such heavy pro-life activity, MS isn’t exactly delivering the expected goods.”
The expected goods? Pro-lifers have never made the argument that having kids will eliminate entrenched poverty and education gaps! We’re just saying that you don’t get to kill your kids to solve your problems. A radical idea, I know. Especially given that there’s no evidence that the ability to kill your kids actually solves those problems either.
“Pro-lifers have never made the argument that having kids will eliminate entrenched poverty and education gaps!”
Yes, you guys do. All the time. You can’t scroll through one thread without coming across some Chicken Soup for the Soul-worthy fairytale about shiny new babies turning even the most hopeless, slatternly girl into a happy little mommy. Case in point: Praxedes’ comment above. Oh, the quaint image of the uneducated mother. Oh, bless her soul. Really, I hope you all remember to take off the fetus-blinders when you hit the sack tonight.
You can’t scroll through one thread without coming across some Chicken Soup for the Soul-worthy fairytale about shiny new babies turning even the most hopeless, slatternly girl into a happy little mommy.
LOL. I know more than my share of pretty hopeless, slatternly girls who turned into happy little mommies, myself included.
Do you think someone who defends aborting their child year after year in the name of education/degree/money is a happy little mommy of a dead baby?
Stop hating on me because I choose to look for and find the good. It would do you good to read a little Chicken Soup for the Soul yourself but I’m guessing these books are waaaaay below your reading level.
Oh, and my oldest fetus stopped to visit me last night — you know the unplanned pregnancy that you would have advised me to abort because according to your elite book I wasn’t educated enough to raise?
Maybe your child visited you in your dreams.
Megs—
((((hugs))))).
Megan,
You are breaking my heart girl. I am sorry that you are hurting and do not yet see that.
I should have taken that shiny new baby 21 years ago rather than live with the lifelong regret of paying for her death!!
Please consider emailing me.
carla@jillstanek.com
As long as I am here I will reach out my hand to you.
Fetus-blinders? I don’t think I’ve read a stranger line on this blog. That’s saying something.
“ yet maternal and infant mortality rates are staggeringly high,”
LOL
What a bunch of BS.
The infant mortality rate in Mississippi is 1%. Now if those people would just get with the program and abort seriously ill kids, they could get it down to 0.8% by aborting 2 more kids per thousand and then their numbers would be “better” by Megan’s standards. If you abort a seriously ill kid, well then he isn’t an infant by definition, he is an aborted fetus. This is just a game.
Exactly how low do we think we can get the infant mortality rate, given the fact that random mutations are just part of nature?
It is not like healthy newborns are dying like flies in Mississippi. It is a tiny fraction and they are kids with serious problems. Duh.
”pregnant adolescents can pretty much kiss further education goodbye.”
This is so incredibly sexist. Women are not stupid or ineducable due to pregnancy or having children. I personally know women who got advanced degrees after having children. What universe is this commenter living in?
Oh, and Megan why are your types (you and CC in particular) obsessed with the belief that refering to a person by the scientific term for them at a given stage of development degrades their moral worth? Imagine if anyone referred to toddlers, teenagers, adults etc. as dismissively as your types refer to fetuses.
My wife and I did not kill our children when they were toddlers. We must have worn “toddler blinders” and engaged in a cult of “toddler worship.”
“This is so incredibly sexist.”
No lady, it’s reality for countless young teen moms in poor states. It doesn’t make them stupid, just unfortunate. What does make people seem incredibly naive, however, is the way they cling persistently to horatio alger myths.
Hippie,
I’m one of those women who got an advanced degree after having two children. What kind of sexist society says you can only have children or have an education? Since when did men have to decide that? Personally, I wonder if some educated post-abortive women choose to further that myth so they can feel better about their abortions. After all, they ‘had’ to sacrifice their child for an education, right?
What does make abortion defenders seem incredibly naive, however, is the way they cling persistently to killing-babies-empowers-women myths.
My ovaries do not make me unequal to a man and I resent the abortionistas’ constant harping on women that parenting children makes you less equal to a man or less equal to a post-abortive woman. No wonder you are losing ground. No wonder you are losing popular support. Go Team Life!!
Notice how Megan came back to trade barbs on this thread, but left the necrophilia thread after one comment? Is it because that thread lead to actual arguments on the abortion issue and she couldn’t defend her view any further? Or did she just agree entirely with joan’s handling of the fight? All interesting questions to ponder.
I think an important point to bring up in all this talk about teen pregnancy and education is the basic lie that (most) people need higher education to be fullfilled. This notion that you are less if you don’t complete high school and/or college is very new, and not at all a realistic view of people’s abilities or wants. Yes, statistically a higher education relates to a higher lifetime earning potential, but to make that the basis of gaining higher education assumes that gaining in wealth and position is the goal in life or will bring more happiness in life.
If a pregnant teen *chooses* not to continue her education that is neither a black mark against her nor against her society. It is purely that woman’s choice to follow a different path. Someone with a 11th grade education (or a 7th grade education for that matter) can be just as fullfilled and happy and accomplished as someone with a doctorate. And someone making $30,000 a year with 3 kids can be just as happy, loving, and fullfilled as someone making $300,000 a year. Whay would we even consider whether a woman chooses to continue education after a pregnancy a positive or negative statistic? Clearly, since any number of people have accomplished it, it’s perfectly feasible to continue education during/after pregnancy. And this has been a capability for many years. For most of history only a tiny percentage of the overall population had what we would consider ‘higher education’, but that never stopped abyone from being happy and fullfilled (in and of itself), and it doesn’t stop anyone from being so today.
Feminists make this big expectation that if you *don’t* go to college and complete a degree you are giving up something, but that’s simply not the case. You are trading one path for another, and neither path is inherently better than the other.
I was a straight A student, I’m highly intelligent, received a full ride accademic scholarship to the school of my choice after being actively recruited by several. But I only did two years of college. I went to college for the experience and in hopes of finding a husband, just like many women before me. I don’t want a career. I ‘dropped out’ of college to pursue married life, I’m a stay at home mom with 2 kids and one on the way. My intelligence isn’t being ‘wasted’ by this path, my life isn’t ‘stunted’ because I didn’t complete higher education, and I don’t belong in some negative statistic arguing how ‘impossible’ it is for a married/mothered woman to finish a degree. I, like any number of other women (including many I know), belong in the positive group feminists want to ignore altogether, those women who choose motherhood over a degree or career.
Pro-abortionists, feminists, and liberals in general want us to believe that educational careers halted by pregnany, birth, or marriage are some sort of horror story that must be stopped, and they toss around how few teen mothers finish high school or college like it was some game winning chip to rally behind. But a huge amount of women actually in that position are *glad* of where we are, content, fullfilled, and relish the life of mother over any mere career or academic acheivement. Don’t let them get away with it. When some pro-abort throws out how few teen moms ‘get’ to finish schooling, smile, and hit them back with ‘isn’t it great how we live in a society where a young women can choose to enter adulthood and settle into her choosen path without wasting 4-8 years racking up debt and mucking around with existential thoughts of ‘who do I want to be?”
Meh, my father didn’t attend college and he’s probably the smartest person I know. Besides, we’re not talking about college here, but high school. Every child in this country is entitled to a public education. Unless she’s got the greatest, most supportive family in the world, having a baby in high school will make it very, very difficult for an adolescent to complete her education. The high teen pregnancy rates and high school dropout rates in poor southern states are an indictment of the area’s pro-life policies. The rags-to-riches fairytale dissolves against a backdrop of extreme poverty and lack of social mobility.
Having an abortion itself inherently empowering, just as attending college isn’t inherently empowering (and really, having a baby isn’t inherently empowering, especially if the child is unwanted). But each woman having the freedom to choose the best option for her life–that’s what’s matters.
Megan,
What are you doing to help young pregnant girls? Better yet, what are you doing to help young girls BEFORE they get pregnant?
Aaaaaaaaaaand……how did your abortion empower you?
Having my four children? Totally empowering. Killing my first child via abortion? Not so much.
1. I work at a community center/health clinic, and we serve a lot of teen girls. I would hope that we’re “helping” them in some regard, especially with our support groups and visiting nurse’s program for new mothers.
2. To illustrate: I love my boss’ children. I’ve babysat a few times for her this year. But every time I come home to a clean house without diapers, or screaming, or whining, I breathe a deep, deep sigh of relief.
But each woman having the freedom to choose the best option for her life–that’s what’s matters.
I thought we were talking about high school girls, not women.
Planned Parenthood came to my kids’ high school health class recently and I found it ironic I had to sign a slip stating whether or not my child could stay in class.
Oh, that’s right, pregnant girls shouldn’t have the right to decide what they think is best for the futures–unless, of course, they decide to have the baby.
“But each woman having the freedom to choose the best option for her life–that’s what’s matters.”
Uh, no, that’s not what matters at all. Every unborn child getting the right to live is more important than the woman choosing whats best for her. I know we live in a very selfish society and all but their are things more important than then doing whats best for you regardless of the consequences to anyone else.
Megan, really. You breathe a sigh of relief?? Who is there to hear you? That has to be one of the saddest comments I have EVER read on this site, which is saying a lot.
Young girls do have a right to a basic education. They also have the responsibility to (a) not get pregnant, and (b) if they do, not to sacrifice their child to get it. Again, when you particiate in a baby-creating act, and it actually created that baby, WHY should that baby die?
Except yours did, Megan, and for the life of me and my own kids, I can’t for a second recognize anything you say as remotely human.
Oh, that’s right, pregnant girls shouldn’t have the right to decide what they think is best for the futures–unless, of course, they decide to have the baby.
Oh, and you continue to forget about the child they chose to create and the future of the male who has zero say in whether his child lives or dies. What about what is best for their futures?
PS. It’s nice to hear you come home to a nice, clean house. Your child would be out of stinky diapers by now though and probably wouldn’t have been much of a whiner. It would have been hard to get a whine in edgewise at your home (:
On a side note, wasn’t this thread originally about China? :)
Really, Megan. Your child would be roughly the same age as my son. He’s been out of diapers for awhile. He can talk to me now, too. He’s sweet, smart (his preschool teacher was having a problem with the computer she uses for the “magic screen” in his class. She didn’t know how to fix it, but he did!), clean (he sorts and puts away his toys all by himself!) and so happy and full of love. Your child would’ve been as well. Don’t try to console yourself by thinking that you giving your child life would’ve meant stinky diapers and a messy house FOREVER. I won’t let you get away with it, because I know the truth.
It’s so sad that you love your boss’s children, but couldn’t be bothered to love your own.