Hindu group cites funeral practices as leading driver of female feticide
A press release yesterday from the Indian Hindu reform group Navya Shastra called on Hindus to “allow daughters to impart final rites at the funerals of their parents.”
A NS rep explained, “One religious reason why boys are favored among Hindus is because of the anachronistic belief that only a son can formally conduct this ceremony, so a girl is totally worthless in this regard.”
I found this information fascinating. According to Webhealing.com…
Hindus… believe in the hastened departure of soul. They believe that once it sheds the body, the soul prepares to depart immediately on its karmic journey, and as such, it’s very important to cremate the body as soon as practicable so as not to provide any allurement for the soul to linger on to this side of the world. Therefore, Hindu customs require the body to be taken to the holy grounds and cremated as soon as all the family members have had a chance to view it.
The New York Times added:
[T]he son of the deceased should perform the ceremony, If he [is not able] at the time of the death, the father or brother of the deceased or some other male member of the family [must] his place. When there is no son in the family, one Is adopted for the purpose…. The body is placed upon the [funeral] pile…. Then the chief mourner walks around the pile three times and fires it….
So according to Hindus, one’s post-death future is dependent on a hasty cremation, and only family males can see to that. Thus, preborn girls are killed so her parents can live after dying.
NS called on “Indian feminist leaders” to address the growing female-to-male gender imbalance.
Apparently it is not only American feminists but feminists worldwide who are silent on this most extreme demonstration of sexism – killing.
Two reasons why. First, to speak up would be to admit preborns are human. Can’t do that.
The NYT reported April 28 the Indian gender imbalance is only worsening:
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh highlighted an “alarming” decline in the number of girls for every 1,000 boys in India, slipping to 927 in 2001 from 962 in 1981, according to the latest census figures….
The Lancet, the British medical journal, estimated in 2006 that as many as 10 million female fetuses had been aborted in India over the previous 20 years by families trying to secure male heirs. Unicef… noted that the imbalance in the sex ratio had become particularly acute in India’s wealthier regions, where couples were easily able to afford ultrasound tests.
Well, that’s interesting. So are Planned Parenthood et al trying to stop female feticide, or are they focused on getting more money from abortion by forcing UN and government programs to more widely avail abortion to poor women?
If you picked B, you’re right. See here and here. The abortion industry is aiding in worsening sex-selection abortions in India because it wants to make more money.
And that is the primary reason feminists and the abortion industry are silent.
An NS rep I spoke with told me the group has only taken a position against female abortion, which is also interesting.
[Funeral photo courtesy of Encyclopedia Britannica; Indian family photo courtesy of the Boston Globe]

Don’t these guys know that fewer women mean less wives/mommies which means lowering their chances of obtaining the coveted male progeny?
And how, exactly, is PP responsible for this centuries-old cultural bias?
And is there any evidence of PP “forcing” someone to have an abortion in India or elsewhere?
And what is the evidence PP is favoring or forcing the abortion of female fetuses?
Any facts to support the assertions in this post?
Anon, read my post and links from my post. By not condemning female feticide and by promoting more abortions in India while the female feticide problem is clearly not getting better, only, worse, PP aids in female feticide and makes money off it to boot.
Jill you know why I love your posts?
Because they give me an oppotunity to proclaim God’s Word which answers every question of life.
Galatians 3: 26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Amen, HisMan… Galatians 3:28, one of my favorites.
Jill 11:04 You apparently have no evidence to support your claim of PP complicity in sex-selective abortions.
You are an extremist, adamantly opposed to any form of contraception, any form of family planning and, of course, abortion.
India, with its horrendous over-population, lack of sanitation, lack of economic opportunity, disease and starvation is your ideal world.
You hate PP because they promote family planning, and the concept that you should not have children you cannot support or keep alive.
The vast majority of educated people are on the PP side in this debate and reject your extremist position.
India and China both have this sex selection abortion problem where boys are favored over girls. Its disgusting.
And Planned Parenthood just keeps promoting abortion as the solution. Abortion is used as birth control in many countries.
Mother Teresa said:
“I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child, a direct killing of the innocent child, murder by the mother herself.”
It makes sense to me. Where abortion is in demand Planned Parenthood is quick to set up the supply. Simple economics.
What does everyone think the mother in the photo is thinking?… “I sure miss my daughters.”
You hit the nail on the head here Jill. Sex-selection is the product of all the pro-aborts who deny the personhood of the victims of this feminicide.
The vast majority of educated people are on the PP side in this debate and reject your extremist position.
Posted by: anonymous at May 9, 2008 11:57 AM
Many people are educated beyond the level of their intelligence, and don’t have a clue about reality.
Hey Janet:
I didn’t know you were an undeducated Neandertahl simply because you believed that the vicious, inhuman, violent, intolerant, insensitive, indiscriminate, vile, nausea-inducing, murderous, selfish, narciccistic, banal, blasphemous practice of dismembering, suctioning, poisoning, emaciating, and mutilating our future was wrong and resulted in the ongoing emotional and mental distress of the carrier.
I guess that makes two of us.
I disagree just slightly this statement of yours, “Many people are educated beyond the level of their intelligence, and don’t have a clue about reality.” (Not really but it did give me an in).
I would say it more like this: “These are a people to be most pitied for without vision, the people perish”.
Hey girls,
Has any one heard from JLM lately? I miss her support.
HisMan,
A part of believing in God is that we are forced to look at our own inadequacies and be humbled by them. I am thankful for that.
Anon 11:57
“India, with its horrendous over-population, lack of sanitation, lack of economic opportunity, disease and starvation is your ideal world.”
Mother Theresa, who had first-hand experience with the above scenario, should have been the first one to say: “I’m tired of helping these outcasts. Abort!”
What did her actions speak?
HisMan,
Me too. She was here earlier in the week, maybe Monday? I offered to take her to lunch sometime; I’m afraid I scared her away (Just kidding, JLM!).
Anon, there’s danger involved when the ratio of boys to girls are deliberatley skewed. Jill has poted in the past about that, although I hope the mods could provide the links to that.
I think it’s also that abortion is the linch-pin of the entire women’s movement.
Abortion is suppose to mean that women no longer HAVE to bear a child, or child after child. Women no longer HAVE to bear a child from rape.
Women who are stay-at-home mothers no longer HAVE to stay at home saddled with children. Women no longer have to worry about pregnancy from sex.
Instead of DEMANDING that men change THEIR behaviours, women have sacrificed themselves and their bodies and their children for what is suppose to be freedom.
Except it’s not freedom, it is death.
And who is paying the price women who die from botched abortions, women who get STD’s and are infertile because their open reproductive system is more vulnerable, women who can’t find a man to commit to marriage because, why would he, when he has friends with benefits. And of course, unborn females who are being slaughtered by the millions.
So how is it that we are demanding that these Indian women change their men, when our women took the easy road and didn’t demand our men change their behaviours?
Wow. Very insightful Patricia.
Janet:
I don’t eat lunch with knuckle draggers either, except myself of course.
Tell JLM I said hi.
Patricia:
Umm… we do. And every time we do, some anti-feminist comes out of the woodwork and says we’re emasculating men by not allowing them to be the primary breadwinners and not granting them sex every time they want it and not allowing them to beat their wives and ignore child care responsibilities.
We’re “emasculating” men by getting mad when they holler at us on the street. We’re emasculating men by wanting women in commercials to be shown with less sex appeal. We’re emasculating men by expecting equal pay and the right to vote, because everyone knows women aren’t as smart as men!
We’re emasculating men by not approving of boys clubs and by wanting to control our fertility. We’re emasculating men by expecting them to not rape us. We’re emasculating men by expecting them to treat women like people and not reproductive bodies.
Plenty of us feminists DO want men to change their behavior. But as long as women keep coming out and saying that “men will be men!” women will always have to take the hard road and over-work themselves just to establish the illusion of equality.
Oh Patty:
You are so 100% right on, on target, hit a home run, touch down, slam dunk, hole in one, correct that I am jumping out of my chair.
Here’s an excerpt from my post of April 17, 2007 that explains exactly what you are asserting. Abortion is about power, that’s it, period.
“Since abortion makes no sense to any rationally thinking person, there has to be other reasons for pro-aborts’ “death grip” on this so-called “death right” .
It is no secret to me what abortion truly is and why I think it is used as a means to hold political power. I state it again as posted on previous threads as follows:
“You have to realize that pro-deathers are not driven by logic. They are driven by the lust for power, perhaps abortion followers without realizing it, but its leaders and initiators, guilty as hell.
They are no different than the poor man who fantasizes about taking the rich man’s watch without regard to how or why the rich man acquired the watch; while poor materially, they lack no prejudice. They feel totally justified in their position, not because of logic but in some sinister form of perverted self-righteousness not thoroughly arrived at, at having simply arrived. Perhaps this itself feeds the power demon inside them, at just being able to arrive, at joining up: “I’m in the club now and no one will every kick me out, not even me”.
They reject anyone or anything in authority that would tell them how to live including God Himself and it’s generally masked in the facade of women’s rights. Which when you analyze it, is a very parasitical way of thinking. I mean, they kill unborn baby woman too don’t they? How dare they use the issue of abortion to bolster their sense of self-hood. Again, the perverted, twisted and demented logic shows its ugly head from every angle of the looking glass. Ah, but they see in a mirror darkly? No, the light’s off.
So, when they acknowledge the horror of a baby cooking video, or talk about how bad kicking a dead baby in a bag is, or allowing a baby to die in a toilet in an abortion deathatorium despite the pleas of the mother for the baby’s life, they really are acknowledging the horror of abortion since to not do so would be illogical. What they fail to realize is that in doing so, they for a moment remove their masks, and their K-9 fangs show through the sheepskin, scaring even themselves. Does a werewolf know who he is?”
Edyt,
Sarcasm makes people sound insincere. NOT being sarcastic is a better way.
I wasn’t being sarcastic.
Then tell me how it emasculates a man by NOT letting them holler at you or rape you on the street or not giving them “skin” in commercials?
Do you really believe it weakens a man when you don’t allow him to rape you?
Of course I don’t. I’ve heard anti-feminists argue otherwise.
The anti-feminist argument is that men have natural urges they cannot control and as women are the submissive sex, they should obey men’s wishes.
Rape is a particularly big issue in the case of marriage. Anti-feminists believe when a woman consents to marriage, she consents to sex whenever her husband wishes, even if she doesn’t want to have sex, or if it’s painful, or whatever.
Were you serious when you said “everyone knows women aren’t as smart as men?
Of course I don’t. I’ve heard anti-feminists argue otherwise. posted by Edyt.
Then you were being sarcastic. Get it
That’s an anti-feminist argument I’ve heard numerous times. I wasn’t being sarcastic, I was posting anti-feminist ideas. Does that make more sense to you now?
Yea, now I think I se that you were just trying to point out anti-feminist things, but really you are stretching it to the point of sarcasm.
You would be hard-pressed to find any woman who seriously believes they owe it to their husband to let him beat and rape her etc.. etc…
And certainly Patricia does not believe that. So what was your point?
Patricia said feminists weren’t focused on changing men’s behavior.
I said they were.
Anti-feminists are those who aren’t focused on changing behavior.
Edyt 2:21: Plenty of us feminists DO want men to change their behavior. But as long as women keep coming out and saying that “men will be men!” women will always have to take the hard road and over-work themselves just to establish the illusion of equality.
It is incorrect to say most women just say “men will be men”. What women want is for men to be “gentlemen”. Typical feminists such as yourself take offense to the idea because they believe it devalues them. In fact, a gentleman treating a woman like a lady is the biggest compliment he can give her. Maybe feminists don’t understand because they’ve never allowed themselves to be treated like a lady. Try it, you might like it.
Is part of the feminist platform to change men’s behaviour by controlling their right to abortion?
The New Feminism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_feminism
Edyt,
What exactly are the changes to men’s behaviour that you believe your right to abortion will make in men?
So how is it that we are demanding that these Indian women change their men, when our women took the easy road and didn’t demand our men change their behaviours?
Posted by: Patricia at May 9, 2008 1:53 PM
********
One more idiots argument. Women in India are aborting a female fetus because they dont want to have daughters. They continue the pregnancy if the fetus is male. Women arent valued in India any more than YOU value women. Youre the one insisting that a 12 year old victim of rape has an obligation to continue her pregnancy regardless of what it does to her. Women in the US have abortions simply because they dont want to continue their pregnancies. Why does ‘does not want to be pregnant’ confuse and confound you so totally? Not all women see themselves the way you do, as a life support system for a uterus.
Of course I don’t. I’ve heard anti-feminists argue otherwise.
The anti-feminist argument is that men have natural urges they cannot control and as women are the submissive sex, they should obey men’s wishes.
Rape is a particularly big issue in the case of marriage. Anti-feminists believe when a woman consents to marriage, she consents to sex whenever her husband wishes, even if she doesn’t want to have sex, or if it’s painful, or whatever.
Posted by: Edyt at May 9, 2008 2:47 PM
*********************
Case in point, the attitudes towards women in the FLDS commune thats so much in the news right now. When a 14 year old girl said she didnt want to have sex with the man she had been forced to marry she was basically told she didnt have the right to say ‘no’ to her husband. The Southern Baptists publically announced that women were expected to be ‘subservient’ to their husbands and ‘obedient’. This attitude condones and excuses and even encourages rape. Women dont have any RIGHT to say no to sex with their husbands. Men have a RIGHT to sex with their wives and if the woman says no then she is being ‘disobedient’.
Patricia are you going to have a hissie fit over Janet using Wiki, like you did when I quoted Wiki yesterday?
“India, with its horrendous over-population, lack of sanitation, lack of economic opportunity, disease and starvation is your ideal world..”
@ Anon: You know, India actually is rapidly improving economically and they are combating their disease and starvation problems. India is one of the most rapidly growing economies besides China.
Hello Red, no surprise you used the word idiot in your first post of day.
Red, maybe you could answer the question Edyt ducked. What exactly are the changes to men’s behaviour that you believe your right to abortion will make in men?
anon,
Jill 11:04 You apparently have no evidence to support your claim of PP complicity in sex-selective abortions.
You are an extremist, adamantly opposed to any form of contraception, any form of family planning and, of course, abortion.
India, with its horrendous over-population, lack of sanitation, lack of economic opportunity, disease and starvation is your ideal world.
You hate PP because they promote family planning, and the concept that you should not have children
The vast majority of educated people are on the PP side in this debate and reject your extremist position.
No Kidding! lol…DUH
But at least she uses her own name to spout her views and doesn’t hide behind the name anonymous…
Hello Red, no surprise you used the word idiot in your first post of day.
And it will be the last…
TR, one warning.
I see the word Liar, idiot, stupid, or anything else I find offensive and you can kiss you comment goodbye.
If this so called “women’s movement” craziness ever leads to women getting drafted for war like men, and one of my daughters gets drafted, then the war will start right here in the US at my front door.
Red, maybe you could answer the question Edyt ducked. What exactly are the changes to men’s behaviour that you believe your right to abortion will make in men?
Posted by: truthseeker at May 9, 2008 6:33 PM
*************
And just where did I say it would?
If this so called “women’s movement” craziness ever leads to women getting drafted for war like men, and one of my daughters gets drafted, then the war will start right here in the US at my front door.
Posted by: truthseeker at May 9, 2008 8:40 PM
******************
By any chance has it escaped your notice that MEN arent being drafted now and WOMEN are joining all branches of the armed forces, and are even graduating from the military academies?
Hello Red, no surprise you used the word idiot in your first post of day.
Posted by: truthseeker at May 9, 2008 6:30 PM
***********************
No surprise at all, given the post to which I answered.
By any chance has it escaped your notice that MEN arent being drafted now and WOMEN are joining all branches of the armed forces, and are even graduating from the military academies?
Posted by: TexasRed at May 9, 2008 11:39 PM
Has it escaped your notice that boys currently have to register for the draft and girls don’t?
And just where did I say it would?
Posted by: TexasRed at May 9, 2008 11:34 PM
You didn’t. But since you and Edyt seem to be in agreement on your views about feminism I thought you could give it a shot. Don’t try if your not comfortable answering it though.
TR:
I am not a Baptist, but I have thousands of Baptist friends.
I don’t know any of them that think that their wives should be subservient and I don’t think any of them would espouse your version of the teaching you expressed.
Now there is a Biblical passage that says that wives should submit to their husbands, but, if you go on reading it says husbands, give yourselves up for your wives as Christ gave himself up for the church and died for her. God only requires submission from a wife to a loving husband. God requires a husband to give up his life for his wife. Now, should we men be whining to God about that huge inequality? I have given up my life for my wife and family and that is what I will continue to do (although imperfectly) until I die, in obedience to my Savior whom I love.
And the Greek word for submit is not a word implying blind obedience or compulsion, it is associated with submitting by choice.
God does not require a woman to submit to an abusive husband or jerk. Rather she is urged to submit to a husband who is totally surrendered to Christ, a man willing to give his very life for his wife. In fact, I view an abusive husband as an adulterous husband.
TR, you call yourself a counselor however, this has got to be a lie. No one who knows anything about couseling would have such screwed up thinking as you do nor be allowed by any responsible person in charge as to allow somebody like you to counsel anyone.
In fact, when you finally decide to get honest about how faulty your thinking is and begin to understand that the pro-lifers on this site really do love you and want to see you healed, will you perhaps begin to open your heart. This love preocess does not involve feeding your extremely faulty thinking about life, about God, about men and the world in general. We oppose anything that asserts itself above the knowledge of God.
You have obvioulsy been terribly treated by someone or some group in the past, perhaps those that “called” themselves Christian or Catholic. I must tell you, that God is not an abuser, so, they were not representing Him. Forgiveness is the key. Holding onto resnetment is a prison of your own making and God’s love and sacrifice gives you a way out. Who in the world are you hurting but yourself by holding onto this hatred?
There is only one being in the universe and his followers that wants to see you continue in this path of self destrcution. It is satan himself.
Would you just sit back for a moment and really think about what you believe and realize how destructive it is? Do yo want your children to be like you?
Hey, are there any other women out there, that perhaps can encourage TR. I’m a man and perhaps cannot readily identify with her pain and feelings of despair, hopelesnsess and powerlessness that occur as the result of abuse. I really believe she’s in a great deal of pain and has been so angry for so long that she is not even aware of it. Anyone out there who has been able to overcome this? Give her a lift would you?
Good grief, I sincerely hope that TR is NOT a counselor. The damage she would do…I can’t even imagine…
In my original comment what I have meant is that the feminists have taken some of the most natural attributes of womanhood and femininity and distorted them. They have deliberately work to divest women of these attributes and the result has been terrible.
For example, women who wish to stay home and raise their families are very much denigrated for this “choice”. To aspire to be “just” a mother is seen as being stupid and unmotivated. By changing society so drastically and pushing the ideal that all women MUST have a career, it is now almost impossible for many women who wish to stay home and be a full time homemaker and wife to do so. So in fact, this “choice” has been lost to women. The sad thing is that for most women this is THE most fulfilling part of their adult lives. Women are hard wired to be givers.
Another is the view of pregnancy. Pregnancy is viewed as a disease and the enslavement of women. Yet we all know many women who have enjoyed their pregnancies immensely and felt it was a very special time where they actually felt very feminine and sexy! Personally I loved each time I was pregnant even though I had months of morning sickness. I got to put on weight and be curvy – it was wonderful.
Divorce is another thing. Feminists fought for divorce rights but who gets hurt; the women who are abandoned and the children who lose both parents to some degree. Instead of seeking solutions to make marriages stronger and help those with problem marriages the answer is always the what appears to be the easy one – no fault divorce.
People want abortion as a solution for rape and incest. But abortion is not the solution PP would let us believe. The solution is to catch these creeps so they can’t commit the crime again. What does PP do, it hides the perpetrators of these terrible crimes.
It’s not surprising that the Western feminists aren’t yelling and screaming for changes in India’s sex selection culture. Because this would mean infringing on the liberal left’s sacrament of abortion. They really don’t care how many females are aborted as long as Indian women have the RIGHT to abortion. But who loses, the unborn Indian girl, who never has the chance to make her “choices”.
HisMan, you might want to read the Bible a little better to really understand the subservience of women.
“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” (I Corinthians 11:3)
“For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.” (I Corinthians 11:8-9)
“Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.” (Judges 19:24-25)
“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I Timothy 2:11-14)
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” (Genesis 3:16)
“Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman.” (Eccles. 25:13)
“Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die.” (Eccles. 25:22)
“If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go.” (Eccles. 25: 26)
“The whoredom of a woman may be known in her haughty looks and eyelids. If thy daughter be shameless, keep her in straitly, lest she abuse herself through overmuch liberty.” (Eccles. 26:9-10)
“A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued.” (Eccles. 26:14-15)
“A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord.” (Eccles.26:25)
“For from garments cometh a moth, and from women wickedness. Better is the churlishness of a man than a courteous woman, a woman, I say, which bringeth shame and reproach.” (Eccles. 42:13-14)
Oh and here’s some infanticide and matricide, commanded by God himself.
“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.” (Hosea 13:16)
Oh and here’s some infanticide and matricide, commanded by God himself.
“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.” (Hosea 13:16)
Posted by: Edyt at May 11, 2008 12:42 AM
Edyt, you are mistaken. These abominations are brought upon man by his own sin and the prophet Hosea is merely forewarning of the wrath that we bring upon ourselves by disobedience to God. God is a merciful and loving God. He wishes us all to live with the Holy Spirit as our guide. So much so that he sent his only son to die for us and save us from our sin, without which this grace we would all be destined to be dashed in oieces and tore up. Thank you for posting this scriptire though. In the past people have always told me that abortion is not addressed in the Bible but you have shown me a clear example of where the Bible forewarns us of the massacre taking place today. May God bless you abundantly for your reading and sharing of the scripture.
“If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go.” (Eccles. 25: 26)
Posted by: Edyt at May 11, 2008 12:42 AM
Edyt, do not be misled by misinterpretation of these passages. Look to Jesus’ teachings for the proper interpretation:
The Pharisees approached and asked, “Is it lawful for a husband to divorce his wife?” They were testing him. He said to them in reply
“What did Moses command you?” They replied,
“Moses permitted him to write a bill of divorce and dismiss her.” But Jesus told them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts he wrote you this commandment. But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother (and be joined to his wife), and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, no human being must separate.” In the house the disciples again questioned him about this. He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”
Mark 10: 2-12
Also Edyt, regarding all those other passages you posted, Also Edyt, I would point you to the Vatican II document ‘Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation’, that “in the Bible the truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, and other forms of discourse. The reader needs to appreciate those differences in style, as well as the author’s own time and culture, to best understand what the words mean.” I hope you helps you to see the true meaning of these passages, and if all else fails the look to Jesus’ teachings for help with interpretation. But by all means continue reading and posting scripture because as the prophet Isaiah stated in Chapter 55 verse 11:
“So shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; It shall not return to me void, but shall do my will, achieving the end for which I sent it.” Isaiah 55:11
In other words Edyt, not every passage in the Bible should be taken literally, but any attempt at reading and understanding it will be rewarded so keep studying it and never be shy about speaking it, spreading it, sharing it or posting it cause it can only help us find our way to the loving and merciful God. And may God bless you for beginning my Sunday with scripture.
As HisMan stated in his previous post here on May 9th at 2:27
“They reject anyone or anything in authority that would tell them how to live including God Himself and it’s generally masked in the facade of women’s rights.”
You need to be careful that in your search to be free and not subserviant to man, that you stretch this all the way into a refusal to be subserviant to God.
Edyt, you are mistaken. These abominations are brought upon man by his own sin and the prophet Hosea is merely forewarning of the wrath that we bring upon ourselves by disobedience to God.
But that directly contradicts what HisMan said in the other thread — that liberals and homosexuals should not be killed. The Bible does not guarantee a right to life … for anyone! Not even the innocent.
God is a merciful and loving God. He wishes us all to live with the Holy Spirit as our guide. So much so that he sent his only son to die for us and save us from our sin, without which this grace we would all be destined to be dashed in oieces and tore up.
You mean this God?
“And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.” (Joshua 10:11)
“And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.” (Deuteronomy 28:63)
“And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.” (Numbers 21:5-6)
“The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.” (Exodus 15:3)
And Jesus? Is he merciful and loving?
“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.” (Matthew 10:34-37)
“I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?” (Luke 12:49)
“Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.” (Luke 12:51-53)
I have more, if you are curious about the mercy and love of the Lord. ;)
In the past people have always told me that abortion is not addressed in the Bible but you have shown me a clear example of where the Bible forewarns us of the massacre taking place today.
Well, that’s an interesting interpretation.
Edyt, do not be misled by misinterpretation of these passages. Look to Jesus’ teachings for the proper interpretation:
The Pharisees approached and asked, “Is it lawful for a husband to divorce his wife?” They were testing him. He said to them in reply
“What did Moses command you?” They replied,
“Moses permitted him to write a bill of divorce and dismiss her.” But Jesus told them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts he wrote you this commandment. But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother (and be joined to his wife), and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, no human being must separate.” In the house the disciples again questioned him about this. He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.” Mark 10: 2-12
And the punishment for adultery is…. DEATH!
Deuteronomy 22:22 “If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.”
Leviticus 20:10 “If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife–with the wife of his neighbor–both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.”
Leviticus 21:9 “And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.”
And Jesus condones these laws:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17-18)
“Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: ‘The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.'” (Matthew 23:1-3)
(So you see, it’s your duty to kill twice married couples for committing adultery)
Also Edyt, regarding all those other passages you posted, Also Edyt, I would point you to the Vatican II document ‘Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation’, that “in the Bible the truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, and other forms of discourse. The reader needs to appreciate those differences in style, as well as the author’s own time and culture, to best understand what the words mean.” I hope you helps you to see the true meaning of these passages, and if all else fails the look to Jesus’ teachings for help with interpretation. But by all means continue reading and posting scripture because as the prophet Isaiah stated in Chapter 55 verse 11: “So shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; It shall not return to me void, but shall do my will, achieving the end for which I sent it.” Isaiah 55:11″
But if the Bible was written (or at least inspired by) God, shouldn’t it have more consistency… perhaps less controversy over the laws, so that everyone could read and understand the word of God? Tell me, why would God complicate his own holy book when there are sinners who need his word? Is it that perhaps, he does not want all of his creation to know him?
If the Bible is not to be taken literally, how are we to take it? And if not literal, then perhaps the creation story is not literal either; perhaps Jesus is not literal; perhaps the Great Flood is not literal.
Again, I’ll ask: Who knows what is to be taken literally or figuratively? Who has been given that authority? And if no one, then who is to say that one might not read the Bible and understand God as a hateful being and seek to do his bidding (which is to destroy those who disobey him)?
You need to be careful that in your search to be free and not subserviant to man, that you stretch this all the way into a refusal to be subserviant to God.
I’m an atheist. :) But thanks for the concern.
But if the Bible was written (or at least inspired by) God, shouldn’t it have more consistency… perhaps less controversy over the laws, so that everyone could read and understand the word of God? Tell me, why would God complicate his own holy book when there are sinners who need his word? Is it that perhaps, he does not want all of his creation to know him?
If the Bible is not to be taken literally, how are we to take it? And if not literal, then perhaps the creation story is not literal either; perhaps Jesus is not literal; perhaps the Great Flood is not literal.
Again, I’ll ask: Who knows what is to be taken literally or figuratively? Who has been given that authority? And if no one, then who is to say that one might not read the Bible and understand God as a hateful being and seek to do his bidding (which is to destroy those who disobey him)?
Posted by: Edyt at May 11, 2008 11:48 AM
Edyt, That is a good point. Each person has a personal relationship with God. Obviously Paul Hill thought just that, he was supposed destroy those who would disobey God’s law and stop abortionists from take the life of innocent children.
Jesus is a historical person who appears in the ancient texts of many peoples and nations.
The Bible uses the many literary forms to teach us. Unfortunately do not have the intelligence or capacity to understand God completely. There will alway be mystery because we are NOT God.
“My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,’ says the Lord.
‘For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.”
Isaiah 55:8-9
But perhaps the biggest reason you see God’s word and fail in your interpretation is becase you do not even acknowledge God. Those who seek God through Jesus Christ are give the tools necessary to see God more clearly. The greatest of these tools is the Holy Spirit. By denying God and saying God commits murder etc. you are driving the Holy Spirit from your being and it is the Holy Spirit. I believe that is the answer to your question about why not everybody can understand the true meaning of scripture. Does that make any sense to you?
Above should have read
By denying God and saying God commits murder etc. you are driving the Holy Spirit from your being and it is the Holy Spirit who helps us get closer to understanding God’s Word.
Edyt, you need to understand that all your scripture postings about God bringing destruction, you need to understand that the destruction is being brought because of our transgressions. You need to understand the concept that these scripture passages are teaching. Can you get the concept that the wages of sin is death. And God will not allow people into heaven who grieve the Holy Spirit. I for one am very glad that he will NOT allow sinners those who grieve the Holy Spirit into heaven and I would happily give my life to God if it be for his greater glory and for my salvation because without God there is no life period.
But perhaps the biggest reason you see God’s word and fail in your interpretation is becase you do not even acknowledge God. Those who seek God through Jesus Christ are give the tools necessary to see God more clearly. The greatest of these tools is the Holy Spirit. By denying God and saying God commits murder etc. you are driving the Holy Spirit from your being and it is the Holy Spirit. I believe that is the answer to your question about why not everybody can understand the true meaning of scripture. Does that make any sense to you?
That’s what we atheists would call a cop out.
I get the whole “you have to have the Holy Spirit to understand” thing; I’ve heard it before.
But if the Bible can only be read through the eyes of the Holy Spirit, would you really trust THIS book in the hands of the masses?
I mean, I’m not about to take this book literally, nor would most Christians I know. However, those that do are capable of destruction beyond rational thought. Many people have killed in the name of God and will continue to do so as long as the messages in the Bible can be interpreted as destructive.
At some point, Christians (and those of other faiths too; the Quran has quite a few hate messages) need to take responsibility for the messages in the Bible and denounce those messages. If the Bible is to be taken literally, as those like HisMan profess, your duty as a Christian would be to seek me out and kill me.
At some point, Christians (and those of other faiths too; the Quran has quite a few hate messages) need to take responsibility for the messages in the Bible and denounce those messages. If the Bible is to be taken literally, as those like HisMan profess, your duty as a Christian would be to seek me out and kill me.
Posted by: Edyt at May 11, 2008 9:51 PM
Edyt, I do take responsibility. That is why I am out here posting to you and anybody else that
the message of God is not a message of hate. Please point out to me where specificly in the post of HisMan does he say Christians should seek out and kill anybody?
“One religious reason why boys are favored among Hindus is because of the anachronistic belief that only a son can formally conduct this ceremony, so a girl is totally worthless in this regard.”
I don’t know if that is true at all, but in any case that is so far from the whole story that it’s small potatoes compared to the cultural prejudices against women that are in place in many countries.
HisMan believes the Bible is the literal word of God. Within the Bible are numerous messages of hate and instructions to kill those who either simply oppose Christianity or commit sins (as deemed by the Bible).
Take note that I started posting scripture in response to HisMan’s assertion that “God does not require a woman to submit to an abusive husband or jerk” when scripture advises the opposite. In fact, a woman who is raped is to be MARRIED to her rapist.
There are many passages in the Bible that are quite hateful (I posted a few) and to those who do not understand scripture or may wish to use it for ill gain, it proves to be quite deadly.
Is this the kind of book you want someone who may not have your particular “vision” to read? Perhaps someone who could be influenced by it to rape, or commit acts of murder, as directed by God?
Is this the kind of book you want someone who may not have your particular “vision” to read? Perhaps someone who could be influenced by it to rape, or commit acts of murder, as directed by God?
God is not the bad guy here. Crazy people do crazy things. I pray some day you will see the light and stop trying to blame God.
It doesn’t work that way. You just have to believe!!!!!
There are many passages in the Bible that are quite hateful (I posted a few) and to those who do not understand scripture or may wish to use it for ill gain, it proves to be quite deadly.
Posted by: Edyt at May 12, 2008 12:02 AM
Edyt, it is really quite simple and not to put words in HisMan’s mouth but I think he would agree. If you are interpretting hatefulness in any scripture passage then you are interpretting it wrong. Jesus is the revelation og all scripture, the Word made Flesh. And Jesus preached a message of love. I know you can keep firing those passages out and saying they are hateful but you or anybody else who calls themselves a Christian who sees them as hateful can be assured you are interpretting them wrong if they go against Jesus’ teaching. Quit saying God is ahteful when those passages you keep referring are there to teach you that the wages of sin and disobedience to God is death. Those passages are not hateful, but to the contrary they are a geace and a blessing by teaching about the wrath we bring upon ourselves if we are disobedient to God.
My typing skills are fading, should have read:
Quit saying God is hateful when those passages you keep referring are there to teach you that the wages of sin and disobedience to God is death. Those passages are not hateful, but to the contrary they are a grace and a blessing by teaching about the wrath we bring upon ourselves if we are disobedient to God.
Janet
God is not the bad guy here. Crazy people do crazy things. I pray some day you will see the light and stop trying to blame God.
It doesn’t work that way. You just have to believe!!!!!
I’m not blaming your imaginary friend, I’m blaming your myth book with its instructions to kill. Why are you denying that the book says these things? Anyone can open it and read the things I quoted. And if I’m taking it out of context (being a rather educated person who has actually read the whole Bible and probably has a better understanding of context) then why would you want others to read it who may take those same passages out of context?
It’s a simple question.
And God himself is quoted as being a jealous and angry God, so I don’t see why it’s so far a stretch to say he’s hateful, particularly when he orders fathers to kill their own children for not believing and making a bear kill 42 kids and commanding people to destroy entire cities, including pregnant mothers and children.
If destruction is your idea of grace and mercy then why should I trust you around the people I love, or in society? You should be locked away in an asylum with those views.
And God himself is quoted as being a jealous and angry God, so I don’t see why it’s so far a stretch to say he’s hateful, particularly when he orders fathers to kill their own children for not believing and making a bear kill 42 kids and commanding people to destroy entire cities, including pregnant mothers and children.
Posted by: Edyt at May 12, 2008 2:35 PM
Edyt, I am going to try and explain the stories in the Bible for you one more time in really, realy simple terms. In the olden days people had no salvation through Jesus so they were “doomed” because all they had was God’s law and they were unable to follow it. Now we have Jesus and life is good. If you can understand that really simple explanation then you could not think God wants people to hate and kill.
Edyt:
You need to clear the New Age cobwebs from your brain. Calling religion “mythology” and God “my imaginary friend” makes you sound a bit loco and really ignorant among anyone not in your little group. Obviously the religious studies of your youth taught by your parents were extremely limited, with no moral lessons, and then you even missed the all the important parts as you raced to read the WHOLE bible – nothing to be proud of. Try some college level courses, start with Christianity 101, and then when you are done, replace your arrogance with a bit of humility, I might entertain a real response to you. You’d be a perfect candidate for the religion of Oprah because she doesn’t make you believe in anything but yourself. Right up your ally, Edyt.
The teachings of Oprah:
http://celebrityreligion.typepad.com/celebrity_religion/
Why are you denying that the book says these things? Anyone can open it and read the things I quoted. And if I’m taking it out of context (being a rather educated person who has actually read the whole Bible and probably has a better understanding of context) then why would you want others to read it who may take those same passages out of context?
It’s a simple question.
Well, look who’s twisting words. Lol. I don’t believe I denied what the bible says literally.
Taking things out of context can happen to you or anyone else. It’s natural. What are you implying? You wouldn’t be saying that you are in favor of book banning are you? That would be contrary to popular liberal thinking, no?
What do you think about Edith Hamilton’s “Mythology”? I read that in high school. Isn’t it unfair that her book is not banned from schools, but the Christian bible (mythology in your opinion) is not accepted. Seems pretty discriminatory if you ask me.
Edyt: 12:02: There are many passages in the Bible that are quite hateful (I posted a few) and to those who do not understand scripture or may wish to use it for ill gain, it proves to be quite deadly.
We’re being a bit melodramatic here don’t you think? Let’s look at the positive aspects of the bible that the majority of people benefit from before talking about a small minority of crazy people.
Learn about Hinduism at The Hindu Encyclopedia
Funny, your views are so baseless and presented with misquotes from celebrated sources of news that it looks authentic. The family shown in the picture appears muslims, not Hindus.
Most of what is ever said or written, with “Hindus beileve” in the begining is usually farcical. There is no truth in the rumours you are spreading here. Yes, people have been misguided to believe a son is better than a girl. The facts is that it is against every belief of Hinduism. The only reason is lack of knowledge or awareness of the religion.
Another funny thing I just noticed.
The funeral shown on the top is the last ceremony of the wife of some Mr. Feroz, a muslim. Yes, she happens to be Mrs. Gandhi. It was fun enough to watch a muslim family following a Hindu traditional ceremony for burning their dead.
So your posting is littered with bad examples, I guess. Get your facts right, please.