To listen to my interview on Bill Bennett’s radio show this morning discussing Barack Obama’s opposition to IL’s Born Alive Infants Protection Act click here.
Bill has also posted a link to the audio on his site.
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
EXCELLENT job on your interview, Jill! I think this answers all of the questions recent commenters have had regarding Obama and the BAIPA. Thank you so much for your continuing effort for the born and the unborn!
http://mediamatters.org/items/200509280006
“Addressing a caller’s suggestion that the “lost revenue from the people who have been aborted in the last 30 years” would be enough to preserve Social Security’s solvency, radio host and former Reagan administration Secretary of Education Bill Bennett dismissed such “far-reaching, extensive extrapolations” by declaring that if “you wanted to reduce crime … if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down.” Bennett conceded that aborting all African-American babies “would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do,” then added again, “but the crime rate would go down.””
1. If you aborted everyone there would be no crime. There would also be nothing else.
2. We might be losing productive workers through abortion, but I’d like to think people have children to love them, not to make work for them in their old age. Also, if you want to go down that road, we could say abortion is helping social security by getting rid of people who could grow up and go on welfare or be burdens on society. But again, that isn’t the point of abortion and we can’t predict a persons future. So that argument is null and void.
Weren’t there more comments on this thread?
Jill, Excellent interview.
As a faithful reader, I was able to finally able to comprehend, for the first time in this interview, the back and forth voting by Obama and his hand in this mess. It all makes so much sense now.
I suspect that this will be getting more and more attention in the coming months.
As a suggestion, you might want to create a banner on the home page with a link to another page detailing the simplistic nature of Obama
Bethany and Charles, thanks very much.
Americans are happy with the Obama/McCain position on abortion. (i.e., do nothing)
Hal,
You speak for all Americans?? :)
This non-issue will have as much traction with mainstream voters as the non-existent “I hate Whitey” tape Jill was promoting two weeks ago and her more recent postings about Obama’s non-existent “relationship” with Scarlett Johansson.
Supporting babies being born alive and left on shelves to die is a “non issue”, Bystander?
Not bad. Not bad at all. Be a bit me clear with your words next time, and try to speak more clearly, but other than that, good.
[Sorry, communications major here. Talking is my thing.]
Carla, I don’t speak for all Americans, but I can comment on how most Americans behave. They behave like they don’t really mind the status quo. Some complain about abortion, others support abortion rights, but not to many are doing anything about it.
It looks to me like abortion is a settled issue.
Hal, or maybe many Americans are ignorant about many aspects of abortion.
Dan, I didn’t really see where she was unclear. How are you, by the way?
Bethany 12:38 It a non-issue because it cannot occur under current law, passed 6 years ago.
Jill, Very nice job! Good explanation of BAIPA, how it differs from abortion rights protected by Roe V. Wade, and how Obama has the two confused.
2. We might be losing productive workers through abortion, but I’d like to think people have children to love them, not to make work for them in their old age. Also, if you want to go down that road, we could say abortion is helping social security by getting rid of people who could grow up and go on welfare or be burdens on society. But again, that isn’t the point of abortion and we can’t predict a persons future. So that argument is null and void.
Posted by: Jess at June 30, 2008 12:00 PM
You are right. I believe Bennett’s opinion mirrors yours. He was saying it is ridiculous to look at abortion as a way of making social policy.
I absolutely LOVE it when people who visit/read and frequently comment here write that all this stuff is SO not important and claim “no one really cares about it.”
The irony is enough to make me LOL.
Elizabeth, they don’t mean literally no one cares. Obviously the people on this site care. Some others care as well. But, overall, it’s not a hot issue for Americans. And Bethany, I don’t think you can dismiss this attitude as being simply because some are “ignorant about many aspects of abortion.” It’s not that complicated. People know.
Is Bill Bennett the William Bennett who wrote the Moral Compass?
Hal, I meet people frequently, who have are ignorant about the abortion issue….not to mention the people I have come across who are completely uninformed about fetal development.
Sure, we on this site are well informed about these issues, but people who don’t get involved in conversations about abortion on a daily basis aren’t to the same extent, and much of the time are very ignorant on the issue.
Also, those who do but are not politically active sometimes just dont know HOW to help solve the problem. They don’t know what types of things they can do personally to help.
You’re right that there are probably some people don’t care, but to claim that it is a majority who do not care is dishonest.
BTW, I believe a recent gallup poll showed that the majority of americans think abortion is morally unacceptable.
Bystander, it can and does still happen under current law.
“BTW, I believe a recent gallup poll showed that the majority of americans think abortion is morally unacceptable.”
It’s easy to say during a poll that something is “morally unacceptable.” It’s different when you’re faced with real life issues.
And, I’m sure you didn’t mean to say I was “dishonest.” I might very well be wrong, but I try to be honest.
Hal, I didn’t mean to imply you were trying to be intentionally dishonest. I’m sorry it sounded like that. :)
Bethany, no offense. I know how sweet you are.
Jess, click on this:
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/16490d6b61.jpg
Elizabeth,
I was going to say the same thing. :)
Is Bill Bennett the William Bennett who wrote the Moral Compass?
Patricia, yeah, rather a companion to ‘The Book of Virtues.’
I’ve never heard much about it. On ‘The Book of Virtues,’ he advocates “self-control.” The he went out and gambled away millions of Dollars. Oh well, I guess you’re gonna have that once in a while.
On that radio show call-in conversation that Jess posted some of, I do think he comes out with a sensible analyis:
CALLER: I noticed the national media… talk[s] a lot about the loss of revenue… to fund Social Security, and I was curious, … [whether] the abortions that have happened since Roe v. Wade [and] the lost revenue from the people who have been aborted in the last 30-something years could fund Social Security as we know it today…
BENNETT: Assuming they’re all productive citizens?
CALLER: …Even if only a portion of them were, it would be an enormous amount of revenue.
BENNETT: Maybe,…but we don’t know what the costs would be, too. I think []abortion disproportionately occur[s] among single women? No?
CALLER: I don’t know the exact statistics, but quite a bit are, yeah.
BENNETT: …I would not argue for the pro-life position based on this… [I]t cuts both [ways]
Bethany: I think polls demonstrate that a majority of American’s believe their should be more restrictions on abortion.
Bethany,
I’ve been up, I’ve been down. I’ve smiled and I’ve frowned. I’ve made every gesture that a young man could steal.
I’m doing fine. Work and school make up my life, and my free time is spent doing what I do best. How’re you?
Hal @ 1:48 PM said But, overall, it’s not a hot issue for Americans.
I’ve run into many Obama supporters who, when they heard about this, wanted a lot more information. Their inquiries were genuine and serious.
Our nation is electing a president, and while Obama may have been somewhat naive, his legislative record speaks of his character and what he truly believes.
Genuine examination of this issue will continue to become a hot-issue, because as President, he’s required to defend and protect all Americans.
“It’s easy to say during a poll that something is “morally unacceptable.” It’s different when you’re faced with real life issues.”
———————————————
A ‘morally unacceptable’ issue does NOT become acceptable because you encounter difficulties with it…BUT for somebody who has wishy-washy morals, I guess, the original statement would make sense.
Ok, Chris, let’s try this.
Think ahead four years. McCain is president. Is abortion legal or illegal?
Obama is president. Is abortion legal or illegal?
Now, I’ll grant you, Roe v. Wade might be overturned (although I doubt it), but abortion remains legal don’t you think?
By the by, Bethany, I didn’t mean that what Jill was trying to get across was unclear. I mean that her voice wasn’t clear. She sounded like she was mumbling on a few parts. Like I said, I do a lot of speaking and listen to a lot of podcasts and radio, so I pick people apart when they don’t speak clearly.
How far will our nation will sink into the amoral abyss?
Anyone who votes for Obama, knowing where he stands on this issue, will be guilty of shedding innocent blood.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3722098690652929884
HisMan, lay down your sword of self-righteousness for a second and grab yourself a beer. Obama isn’t going to sink our country into an abyss. If anything, it’s your generation that has screwed America for my generation.
Think about it. All the social security that gets taken out of my paycheck is being given to you, my parents, grandparents, etc, and by the time that I’m old enough to collect, there’ll be nothing left for our generation to collect on. Now, I’m not being a jerk, or trying to rip on your generation. I’m just being fairly honest. If Obama gets into office [which he most likely will because, face it, McCain has already screwed the pooch on this one], our economy will actually start booming instead of crawling around like a dog that was hit by a tractor. We need change, and another fat, wrinkled, old white man in office is not going to be the one to bring that change about.
Just think about it, ok? I’m not here to start a fight. I’m just saying that you should think heavily before getting all heroic on us.
Hal,
If McCain becomes President:
Constructionist Judges will be appointed
PP will be defunded
The Freedom of Choice Act will not be signed
If Obama is elected, the converse is true.
Given these differences, I would rather have McCain in office.
Skinhead, a little light on facts in your tyraid there wouldn’t you say?
Answer me this: Would a Fortune 500 company ever elect a CEO who has less than 1 year of experience in the company or on the Job?
The President is, in economic terms, the CEO of America. Given this, what experience does he have to guide him through these tough times?
Obama has plenty of experience and a lot of judgment. He has what it takes to lead. He’ll do a fine job.
Don’t worry about it.
Charles,
Berate me when you learn to use spell check.
Tirade. T-I-R-A-D-E.
Someone cheating on their spelling tests, didn’t they?
Someone cheated on their spelling tests, didn’t they?
Apologies for my grammatical errors.
The President is, in economic terms, the CEO of America. Given this, what experience does he have to guide him through these tough times?
Charles, there have been plenty of not-so-hot Presidents with comparitively great experience, and plenty of better-than-averge ones that had little experience.
Dan, beware the wrath of the triads.
As far as the President being the CEO and financial stuff:
http://www.lafn.org/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html
Ain’t been no Conservatives in the White House for a long time.
I just watched the CNN piece. I thought it was disapointing, they didn’t give Jill enough time. Only one or two sentences and that was it. Then they bring on Clinton thug James Carville who doesn’t know the heck he’s talking about. They clouded the facts with Obama lies about BAIPA. The average viewer would’ve come away confused.
Can’t trust the Drive by media, there in the tank for Obama.
Jill,
Your interview with Bill Bennett on the radio was very good.
Hal @ 3:28 PM
Whatever the case may be Hal – inducing labor prior to natural term and then letting that infant die is still murder – infanticide in fact. Most people understand the horror of that, and even NARAL understood that such actions are a pollution of the natural birth process.
There’s only one question in this whole debate – “What are the pre-born?”
Induced infanticide in the name of abortion rights is horrific. I’d say witnessing that personally as Jill did would be a life-changing experience.
If this can be used to educate America, please, by all means defend the radical position Obama took. It helps reveal his moral sellout.
SkD: If Obama gets into office [which he most likely will because, face it, McCain has already screwed the pooch on this one], our economy will actually start booming instead of crawling around like a dog that was hit by a tractor. We need change, and another fat, wrinkled, old white man in office is not going to be the one to bring that change about.
And we know this how? Change for the sake of change can be dangerous.
Charles 3:57: Answer me this: Would a Fortune 500 company ever elect a CEO who has less than 1 year of experience in the company or on the Job?
Not in a million years.
The President is, in economic terms, the CEO of America. Given this, what experience does he (Obama) have to guide him through these tough times?
Just a wing and a …… not much!
@ S. Dan
I like your style (3:49 p.m. post)
And @ Jasper 4:41 p.m. post (who’s just one example of this erroneous usage), we all make typos, but please learn the difference between there, they’re and their.
I know Phylosopher, I just got lazy. I meant “they’re”.
Phylosopher,
Glad to hear I don’t stand completely alone.
Janet,
If it weren’t for the fact that you’re helping keep these fat white men in office to completely screw over the new generation so that you and your lazy baby-boomer brethren can collect off of my blood, sweat, and tears, your arguments might be valid. However, for as long as you keep milking us, the more ——- the planet will become and the harder it will be for us to fix your mistakes.
So, my parting words before I head to my lower class job at Fed-Ex to support the economy and by proxy support all you fat cats is this: …*edited by moderator*
Peace
Love
Unity
Skinhead Dan
Hey Dan,
It’s nice to hear from you again, hope everything is well….
Peace
Love
Unity
A bit of sarcasm? Your style is a bit immature, IMHO.
Hi Skinhead,
We want your opinion, just keep it non-inflammatory.
Thanks.
Hey, Dan, how old are you? Because, I’m 27, and if I had a choice between Ronald McDonald and Obama, I’m afraid I’d have to develop a love of clowns pretty quickly. Some (but not many, I find) young people actually live in the real world and have some sense.
X, 8:09 p.m.
Hehe you crack me up!
HisMan,
I’m not trying to be mean here, but I started to watch that video you posted and had to stop because all of those people rocking back and forth made me feel like I was going to hurl. Literally. I was getting motion sickness I think. Why were they all rocking back and forth like that? It was kind of wigging me out.
Jill,
Great Interview! I forwarded it to everyone I know.
“Politicians are supposed to protect the public, not KILL the public”
–Father Frank Pavone (Priests For Life)
Mike
Thanks, MommaLiz. I try. Although after attending a family gathering the other day for one of my uncles who just turned 60, I find I come from a long line of stand-up comedians who all just missed their callings. ;P As time passes, I see that Obama offers “nothing but sweet. sweet words that turn into bitter yellow wax in my ears”, to quote Philip J. Fry.
carder: 7:27: We want your opinion, just keep it non-inflammatory.Thanks.
Thank you carder.
Doug,
Just wanted to clarify something — Bill Bennett has stated that the reports about his gambling exaggerated the numbers and that when he won, he gave to charity. Unfortunately whenever I have observed Democrats or liberals losing their arguments with him, more often than not they resort to a cheap shot that involves a reference to his gambling.
Jill, that was a great interview. Thank you for your work. God bless!
Eileen
Jill,
I just listened to the interview and am so glad that you are standing up for life and being used in this way! I read your story when it first came on Lifenews and have followed it since then. Keep fighting the good fight!! There are so many praying for you.
Hi Eileen!!
xalisae asked me to re-post this comment here from the previous Stanek on Bennett thread:
“Oh, and something I just heard that I find rather amusing: Obama just made a beautiful speech about the difference in pay between males and females in our country. In true politician fashion, though, it was nothing more than pandering when one looks at the facts-Obama’s female staffers are paid on average $6,000 less than the men, and on average McCain staff females make about $2,500 more than men. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again (and I’ll say it proudly as a female minority!) DEMOCRATS ARE JUST USING YOU, WOMEN AND MINORITY GROUPS! Republicans don’t care who you are, as long as what you are saying is good.”
Posted by: xalisae at June 30, 2008 6:00 PM
~
Skinhead Dan, you said:
Doug, you said:
Thanks, Janet. I can’t copypasta, and I didn’t want to mess it up. :)
x Thanks, Janet. I can’t copypasta
That’s ok, I can’t either. Sounds yummy though! Lol!
Great job on the interview Jill. Nobody in their right mind could vote for Obama knowing what you said. Except maybe Hal, Doug, or a Skinhead.
TS, LOL!
Charles, did you vote for GW Bush in 2000? Barack Obama has more experience in government than Bush had then.
I voted for Nader in 2000. It was my very first vote. Oh, how young and naive I was.
Hal: “But, overall, it’s not a hot issue for Americans.”
Then why are you here, exactly, to state over and over again that something isn’t a hot issue? If I found a website with segregationists, for example, and concluded that so few Americans agree with them, would I bother to post there every day to disagree with them? Probably not. Your own actions are betraying your statements, Hal.
Doug: “I’ve never heard much about it. On ‘The Book of Virtues,’ he advocates ‘self-control.’ The he went out and gambled away millions of Dollars.”
Yup, because you can advocate for virtue and still not be a perfect person. We all have our faults, but that doesn’t preclude trying to be the best people we can be and encouraging others to do the same.
Skinhead Dan: “We need change, and another fat, wrinkled, old white man in office is not going to be the one to bring that change about.”
^ racist ^
“Someone cheated on their spelling tests, didn’t they?”
“Someone” is a singular pronoun and therefore cannot be represented later by “they.”
Now deal with THAT.
that…was…AWESOME.
*applauds, then stands, continuing clapping*
X – I’m 21, and no offense, but just because I’m young doesn’t mean I don’t live in the real world. I had my eyes opened to some very harsh realities when I was 10, and I fight for what I know is right. However, screw putting that pedophile clown in office. I’d rather put John Wayne Velocigacy or Charlie Hanson in before him.
Janet – No sarcasm here. Peace, love, and unity is what I want for this world. My words and actions somewhat contradict it at times, but war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength, apparently. Call me immature; no one is a bad @$$ behind a keyboard. Just relax and try to really hear what I’m trying to say.
BMMG – Right, because I’m so racist that I’m a white man who fights for racial unity? I have more respect for the black community than I ever will for Whitey, who has screwed up much worse in the past? Ha! Your ignorance makes me laugh, but it’s ok. We all have to open our eyes sometime, and I’ll rejoice when you finally open yours. God bless, my friend.
Jasper – It’s good to be back. I’m not back for long, but I’ll try to drop in whenever I can.
Peace
Love
Unity
Skinhead Dan
PS This is a message for MK…
We are so not best friends anymore because I haven’t gotten an email from you since forever ago. Therefore, I must decree that you are no longer an American, but instead, you are now Canadian.
Hehehehe, how you doin’, internet mama?
God bless, my friend.
Posted by: Skinhead Dan at July 1, 2008 12:50 AM
Dan, War is NOT peace, at least not for the victims; freedom is only slavery when you are a servant of the Lord; and I can’t even think of an instance when ignorance is strength. Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God?
I believe in the one thing that is constant in my life, and that is myself. Other than that, I refuse to discuss religion on this board. Sorry, friend, but you’d have to catch me outside of this site to discuss religion with me. However, be forewarned that you will not convert me into blindly following an organized religion that I don’t like. MK tried and didn’t really succeed. However, this is neither here nor there when it comes to what you’re discussing.
Freedom is slavery, my friend. Our country is so free that we’re slaves to a capitalist economy of our own design. Our ignorance to our own stupidity is our strength, and while war may not be peace for the victims, war is a necessary evil if peace is ever to be had.
Oh, and enslaving myself to a being that may not even exist? No thanks. I’ll be a prisoner inside my own head rather than a prisoner of the church.
Oh, and enslaving myself to a being that may not even exist? No thanks. I’ll be a prisoner inside my own head rather than a prisoner of the church.
Posted by: Skinhead Dan at July 1, 2008 1:45 AM
You got that wrong Dan. God is alive and well here and now. Have you ever even tried giving 30 minutes of your day to God alone (does not need to be at a church). No T.V or answering the phone, just you and God. Unfortunately it is kind of a catch 22 for many because they don’t currently believe, so they think it would be a waste of time and don’t bother. That my friend is slavery. Slavery to the capitalist economy and called being caught up in the rat race that you call freedom.
Our ignorance to our own stupidity is our strength.
That’s just wrong Dan. You are not stronger cause you don’t know your failings. It is just the opposite. Seek out your failings and work to correct them, that makes one stronger. Just like finding a lump in your throat one day and ignoring it. It may not go away and you may find out later that it was cancerous and by then it may be a lot harder to “fix”. Whoever said ignorance is bliss may have been right, but no way ignorance is strength.
and while war may not be peace for the victims, war is a necessary evil if peace is ever to be had.
By definition there can never be peace during war. Your attitude about war making peace makes me think of my wife. She used to like to get all angry at me just cause she enjoyed making up so much. Can you tell me why you think war is a necessary evil? I would agree war might be necessary sometimes but I do not agree that war is a necessary evil. When war is necessary it should not involve the killing of innocents, then it would not be evil. I have zero tolerance for the killing of innocents.
I believe in the one thing that is constant in my life, and that is myself.
News flash Dan, you are not constant. The only constant is God and you refuse to allow yourself to even search for God.
Skinhead:
As usual, you’re the self-rigtheous one making all kinds of incorrect assumptions:
1. I don’t drink.
2. I have never collected social security, or welfare, or even an unemployment check, ever and don’t plan on doing so.
3. And it was Lyndon B. Johnson and all the other Democrat slobs who screwed you by instituting the “free lunch” fallacy.
4. By the way, it was also these same Democratic slobs who muzzled the church via 501c3 legislation which resulted in taking God and prayer out of schools and making Roe v. Wade law.
5. If you think morality and prosperity are not linked well you need to go take some history classes.
6. If Obama is elected he will take us down a socialistic path that we will not recover from.
7. The economic downturn we’re currently in is a result of the normal pendulistic swing that occurs every 7 to 10 years. The more government interferes, the worse it will be.
8. I suggest you go get some real life experience, pay some bills, raise some kids, start and run a few businesses, etc., etc. before you start lecturing me on what I should do. I’ve been there and done that.
Liz:
The words are more imporatnat than the video. I know that your generation is a visual generation, however, I suggest that you just listen to the words. They are poingnant and explain why abortion is the most crucial issue facing this country today. All I can say about the rocking is that the listeners probably had worship prior to this sermon and were feeling God’s presence and the urgency and importance of the message. They were passionately into God.
Here’s the link again in case someone missed it about the doctrine of the shedding of innocent blood.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3722098690652929884
“Righteousness exalts a nation but sin is a reproach to any people.”
SoMG, Are you serious with your comment: “George W didn’t have experience.” I suspect that you missed the five years when George W was the Governor of Texas.
Awesome job Jill. Very proud!
Just wanted to clarify something — Bill Bennett has stated that the reports about his gambling exaggerated the numbers and that when he won, he gave to charity. Unfortunately whenever I have observed Democrats or liberals losing their arguments with him, more often than not they resort to a cheap shot that involves a reference to his gambling.
Eileen, that may be. I thought that Bennett himself had said it was $8 million. If that’s not the case, then I stand corrected.
That said, it seems rather pompous for this guy to be expounding on “The Book of Virtues.” Nobody is saying he has to be perfect, but come on….
In like manner, many people point to Newt Gingrich as hypocritical. Newt gets on Bill Clinton’s case, but Newt dumped his first wife when she was in the hospital getting treated for cancer, and carried on a longterm affair with a congressional aide which led to his divorce from wife #2.
And of course plenty of Democrats are hypocritical too. I’m not saying that “Conservatives are bad” alone, on that score. There’s plenty of “do as I say, not as I do” on both sides.
Skinhead Dan,
MK is on vacation. Please don’t write her off just yet. :)
SoMG, Are you serious with your comment: “George W didn’t have experience.” I suspect that you missed the five years when George W was the Governor of Texas.
Posted by: Charles at July 1, 2008 9:01 AM
Oh my, some more defense of the worst president ever.
See below:
A reporter recently used Texas public information laws to obtain 900 pages of George W. Bush’s governor’s schedules and correspondence and discovered “a governor who works short hours and spends little time studying specific issues or working on executive matters. The schedules show that Mr. Bush typically had his first office meeting about 9 a.m., took two hours of “private time” at lunch for a run, and then wrapped up his last meeting by about 5 p.m. A large portion of the officially scheduled meetings were “photo opportunities,” interviews with reporters, or meetings with school groups or other ceremonial occasions. Relatively little of the day was devoted to hard-core examination of the issues.” NYT reporter Nicholas D. Kristof goes on to note that the schedules were taken from one of Bush’s busiest periods as governor, 1997, a year in which the Texas Legislature met.
Since Bush has often told the nation to look at his Texas record to determine what kind of president he would be, one wonders how he would function under the extreme pressures and very long days common to the presidency. Bush is unwilling to put a label on his language and attention problems, which appear to be the reason for his short days in the governor’s office. However, his friends and business acquaintances have commented on these problems.
Doug Hannah, a friend since childhood, has found that the attention problem runs in the family: “They have an attention span of about an hour.” When he and George were boys, he remembers, “Mr. Bush would pick us up to take us to the movies and leave after an hour and 20 minutes…. At ball games George would sometimes want to leave in the fifth inning.” “Even today,” writes Gail Sheehy in the October Vanity Fair, “nothing engages Bush’s attention for more than an hour, an hour max
Oh, I thought that was going to be about Clinton.
Sorry, couldn’t resist. :)
Carla, he was largely responsible for the construction of the Erie Canal.
Charles, the governorship of Texas is mostly a symbolic office, with less real power and responsibility than any other state governorship. You’d learn more about how the Federal Government works from one year in the Senate than from ten years as Governor of Texas.
GWB’s management experience before becoming President followed the following pattern. Step one: get a high-ranking position by using the name of Bush. Step two: transfer the employer’s assets to cronies. Step three: declare bankruptcy and move on. This is what he did as an oil executive, it’s what he did with his ball team, and it’s pretty much what he has done as President.
Yes Doug, he was responsible for many, many things.
SoMG, are you kidding me, “governorship of Texas is mostly a symbolic office, with less real power and responsibility than any other state governorship” Where is the proof of this? Come
Carla, yeah:
http://tinyurl.com/49mn62
Who else would have come up with an album title such as Funkentelechy Vs. the Placebo Syndrome?
Hal, Bush was such a terrible Govenor that when he ran for re-election he won with 69% of the vote. So, he much have done a pretty poor job in office the first few years huh!?
I belive that Bush beat the pro-abort, Ann Richards, in the first election by 5 points.
Haha, don’t worry, I’m not writing MK off. She knows I love her, and that I’m not going to just reject her like that.
Charles, you wrote: “SoMG, are you kidding me, “governorship of Texas is mostly a symbolic office, with less real power and responsibility than any other state governorship” Where is the proof of this? Come
Nice spin, SoMG. So you’re going to say that W’s rise from 53% to 69%, between the two elections for state office, we solely due to Karl Rove et. al.? If that’s the case, the McCain should win handily in Nov.
And I would hardly refer to the memories of 911 as a hangover. This is a defining point in American history and one which should never, ever, be forgotten.
SoMG, Here’s some Bush facts for you:
Richards vetoed a bill allowing Texans to obtain permits to carry concealed weapons. Bush pledged to sign it (after he won the election, did so.)Following his debates with Richards, his popularity grew; he won the general election with 52 percent against Richards’ 47 percent.
Bush used a budget surplus to push through Texas’s largest ever tax-cut of two billion dollars.
Bush extended government funding for organizations providing education, alcohol and drug use and abuse prevention, and reduction of domestic violence, so long as those organizations are religious.
In 1998, Bush won re-election with nearly 69 percent of the vote.
Perhaps he won the elections because he gave the people what they wanted. Imagine that.
How about them, we’ll pull the troops out and defund the war immediately. Where are they now? I believe the congressional approval rating is far worse today the Bush’s — but I digress.
Charles, you wrote: “So you’re going to say that W’s rise from 53% to 69%, between the two elections for state office, we solely due to Karl Rove et. al.? If that’s the case, the McCain should win handily in Nov.”
Is McCain hiring Karl Rove? I had not heard that. I thought Rove was working for Fox News now.
In any case, no, I think the time when Rove’s tactics could win a national election is over. The public seems to understand that this election is serious and that we could get into some very serious trouble (devaluation of our currency) if we go on the way we have been going.
SoMG: we could get into some very serious trouble (devaluation of our currency) if we go on the way we have been going.
“Could get into…”? Holy Moly, we are there.
Oil is priced in Dollars throughout most of the world, and one of the biggest factors in the oil price rise is the declining value of the Dollar.
During Bush Jr’s terms the US Dollar has lost 47% of its value versus the Euro (the european currency).
Using the Consumer Price Index, which tends to understate price increases and the loss in Dollar purchasing power, our currency has lost 95% if its value under the Federal Reserve Board, created in 1913, and originally charged with “defending the value of the US Dollar.” How’s that going? : (
Wow, I can
Charles, the truth of the US’s economic situation is massive and undeniable.
I hear you on the “taking our lumps now” principle (and maintaining the stability of the system). IMO way too late for that, however. Debts the size of the US’s are never repaid, they are defaulted upon, or else the currency is debased enough to make the debt meaningless, i.e. they are hyper-inflated out of existence.
The Fed may raise rates, but it won’t do it enough to maintain the value of the currency. The Fed isn’t totally isolated from the gov’t and the Administration, despite the theory behind it, and it bows to political pressure to some extent. Our federal gov’t won’t suffer a depression, willingly – it’ll do anything but, and hence it will allow the currency to continue to decline versus raising interest rates “enough.” IMO there never should have been a Fed anyway.
But you know what? Rates are going to rise anyhow. Any time you have commodity price pressure like we’ve had and are having, market forces drive rates up, regardless of gov’t intentions and desire. The gov’t has to sell debt instruments – bonds, bills, notes, etc., (and in ever-increasing quantities) and the interest rate is determined by what buyers are willing to pay.
For the whole US, the debt to foreigners is roughly $13 trillion. That’s about $43,000 per American – how is such a thing ever repaid? Our trade deficit is some $60-70 billion every month. Would you lend us money? It’s been in the interest of some foreign nations to keep us going, i.e. Japan and China, for example, since we’re their best customers. Japan’s central bank has sold Yen and bought Dollars, attempting to prop up the Dollar’s value. They’d lost over $20 billion on the trade so far, last I saw. If they ever decide it’s not worth it, things will get really bad for us, really fast.
Not saying The End is Near, and there may yet be more cycles of credit contraction and expansion before any “collapse of the US” comes. Things are rarely really as bad or as good as they look, yet we really are hurting.
Doug, I think there is a way to kill the debt problem and emerge from this. I think you might want to take a look at the National Debt as % of GDP. That will paint a more realistic picture.
It
Skinhead: “BMMG – Right, because I’m so racist that I’m a white man who fights for racial unity?”
You’re not “fighting for racial unity,” Holmes; you’re engaging in racial divisiveness. You’re basing your vote on skin color. Go look up “racist” and come back in a half hour and let us know what you find.
And I never assumed you were anything but white. Plenty of white people have been led to engage in self-loathing. There’s a vast difference between supporting Sen. Obama because you agree with him on issues and supporting Sen. Obama because “he’s not a white guy.”
“I have more respect for the black community than I ever will for Whitey, who has screwed up much worse in the past?”
I can simultaneously hold respect for the black community and respect for Caucasians (note: not “Whiteys,” which is a slur). You’re probably one of those guys who thinks we can’t empower women without destroying men in the process, or elevate African-Americans without tearing down Caucasians. That’s really kind of sad…and a bit stereotypical.
“I am hopeful that McCain will continue making the same mistake Kerry made–endlessly harping on his military service several decades ago.”
The two would be comparable if McCain were concurrently using his military service to gain votes AND trying to cripple the current military.
“Politicians are supposed to protect the public, not KILL the public”
–Father Frank Pavone (Priests For Life)
Posted by: Mike at June 30, 2008 8:39 PM
Like priests are supposed to protect children, not ABUSE them?
The good news is, even if McCain becomes President, the Bush tax cuts are programmed to expire in 2010 all by themselves without any legislative action. McCain would try to make them permanent but the Dem-controlled Congress wouldn’t pass it.
The bad news is, McCain would continue the Bush policy of shovelling money into the military rat hole, where it eventually ends up in the swiss bank accounts of corrupt military contractors like Erik Prince, Blackwater, and these guys:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/06/update-feds-cha.html
I know McCain SAYS he wants to cut defense but the fact is he sold out to the military industry very early in his career and has remained their loyal servant ever since. I cannot recall him ever casting a vote against them.
The REALLY bad news is, the entitlement laws are debt-bombs about to explode. Unless they are changed they will force the government to shell out huge amounts of money to retirees. The Dem-controlled Congress may or may not cooperate with Obama on this, but they certainly will not cooperate with McCain. McCain will propose popular but unrealistic ideas like cutting taxes further, in order to make Congress more unpopular when they vote them down, and we’ll be back to the gridlock pattern of the 1980s which eventually gave rise to Ross Perot.
Oh, and enslaving myself to a being that may not even exist? No thanks. I’ll be a prisoner inside my own head rather than a prisoner of the church.
I’m pretty sure we have the freedom to choose what religion we want to be, nobody ENSLAVES themselves to any religious belief.
Hi Elizabeth: How’s it goin’? I missed Eduardo last week, pulled something in my back. Bummer! :o(
Charles, good comments on the Euro. You may be right – if anything at least the rate of gain for the Euro versus the $US is slowing, though that’s from a fast pace the last 2-3 years.
I think there is a way to kill the debt problem and emerge from this. I think you might want to take a look at the National Debt as % of GDP. That will paint a more realistic picture.
Well, it was around 33% when Reagan took office, and now it’s about twice that. This is not that bad a thing?
And how (in the heck) to “kill the debt problem”?
“Nobody in their right mind could vote for Obama knowing what you said. Except maybe Hal, Doug, or a Skinhead.”
Ha! So you admit Hal, Doug and Skinhead are in their right mind!
Nobody in their right mind could vote for Obama knowing what you said. Except maybe Hal, Doug, or a Skinhead.
Jess: Ha! So you admit Hal, Doug and Skinhead are in their right mind!
:: chuckling :: Jess, don’t think you’ll get that admission from Truthseeker, but when one looks at the facts one sees that there is much being said about Obama that is not true.
I think that Hal is right – comparitively few Americans are going to accept the often-false statements designed to demonize Obama.
It’s been going on hot and heavy for months, and the overall picture is that it was fairly even between McCain and Obama during this January through April. During the last couple months Obama is really starting to pull away, now averaging +6% in the polls.
I realize that people on both sides try to mess with the other candidate, and that things can change a LOT between now and the election, but thus far none of this stuff is really hurting Obama.
“I think that Hal is right – comparitively few Americans are going to accept the often-false statements designed to demonize Obama.”
I don’t think any candidate should be maligned with false charges. And I don’t care if Sen. Obama doesn’t wear a flag pin, or if he DID wear Middle Eastern garb when visiting overseas. But this one is rather solidified, don’t you think? Just check his actual voting record.
“During the last couple months Obama is really starting to pull away, now averaging +6% in the polls.”
Do you want to see Kerry’s lead this time four years ago?
Yeah, at this time in 1987 Mike Dukakis was way ahead and everyone was sure he was gonna win. Of course, GHWBush had Reagan behind him and he wasn’t a batty old goat like McCain. All we can do is wait and see.
// testing – force a republish of page!
Hey Chris, are pictures not allowed to be posted anymore? I’ve noticed that nobody’s is showing up.
bmmg: But this one is rather solidified, don’t you think? Just check his actual voting record.
It’s not his voting record that is at issue, it’s whether or not he’s really against caring for born infants. He’s not against it – he objected to the Illinois bills on other grounds.
….
Do you want to see Kerry’s lead this time four years ago?
As I said, things can change a LOT…. McCain, for example, appeared to be dead meat a few months ago in the Republican race.
Thus far, though, it’s a continuum of less and less support for McCain and more and more for Obama.
Does anyone know what radio channel William Bennett is on in Chicago?? Thanks.
Chris, were those supposed to refresh the page?
Like priests are supposed to protect children, not ABUSE them? –phylosopher
So the 94% who have never abused children aren’t allowed to speak out against a heinous act? Teachers shouldn’t be allowed to voice opinions on topics of morality either since there is an even higher incidence of abuse among them.
Eileen
JohnS,
It’s not so moot cause the guy who was Chairman of the Illinois Health and Human Services Committe in 2003 is the guy who did his best to keep Born Alive Protection from becoming law and he is trying to become our president. Not so moot. How can you not see the relevance in that.
You strike me as being high on BHO Koll-aid.
I’m incredulous at how many Black people who support Obama have NO CLUE as to his position on the unborn…it’s staggering.
Young, middle-aged and older, the ones I’ve encountered on an almost daily basis where I live know NOTHING about his twisted views on life issues, but are voting for him solely because he’s black and figure he is somehow going to magically advance blacks to some new socio-economic level the minute he gets elected.
WHERE are these people getting this from ?????
Mike:12:47: I’m incredulous at how many Black people who support Obama have NO CLUE as to his position on the unborn…it’s staggering.
Young, middle-aged and older, the ones I’ve encountered on an almost daily basis where I live know NOTHING about his twisted views on life issues, but are voting for him solely because he’s black and figure he is somehow going to magically advance blacks to some new socio-economic level the minute he gets elected.
WHERE are these people getting this from ?????
People of all races, and creeds are oblivious to the horror of abortion, not just blacks. Are there any black leaders who are supporting McCain? That may be your answer. Do you know what the polls are saying – how many blacks are supporting Obama?
Of course there are black leaders who are supporting Obama. Obama is for letting the pregnant woman decide. Neither the others nor Obama have a compelling reason for denying the choice, either way, to black women or any women, for that matter.
Why isn’t this link working any more?