Deceptions in Obama’s attack ad against Gianna ad
Here they are again, first the ad BornAliveTruth.org began airing on September 16 in NM and OH, and then Barack Obama’s response attack ad that began airing September 18 in NM and OH…
Obama’s ad was deceptive in at least 4 ways…
Obama ad Deception #1: Insinuating the BornAliveTruth.org Gianna ad was issued by the John McCain campaign, which it clearly was not. BornAliveTruth.org’s web address was displayed at the top right of its ad throughout and included a disclaimer at the end in writing and audio stating, “BornAliveTruth.org is responsible for the content of this advertisement.”
Obama ad Deception #2: Insinuating journalists were calling BornAliveTruth.org’s Gianna ad “one of the sleaziest ads… ever seen” and “truly vile” when close scrutiny of the dates in the Obama ad showed they were written September 10, 2008, 6 days before the Gianna ad began airing:
Those complaints were actually leveled against McCain’s ad about Obama’s support of comprehensive sex ed for Kindergartners:
Obama ad Deception #3: Obama does not deny he voted 4x against the IL Born Alive Infants Protection Act, just that his votes were “taken out of context.” Obama commonly uses this excuse.
The problem is Obama was the sole senator to speak on the senate floor against Born Alive in both 2001 and 2002, so he provided plenty of fodder to understand the context of his votes. Links to all are here. Obama could not have been more clear, as he stated on the senate floor March 31, 2001:
… I just want to suggest… that this is probably not going to survive constitutional scrutiny.
Number one, whenever we define a previable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we’re really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a – child, a nine-month-old – child that was delivered to term. That determination then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place.
I mean, it – it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an antiabortion statute. For that purpose, I think it would probably be found unconstitutional.
And how does Obama explain this statement from an October 2004 debate against U.S. Senate opponent Alan Keyes:
At the federal level, there was a similar bill that passed because it had an amendment saying this does not encroach on Roe vs. Wade. I would have voted for that bill.
We now know this was a lie. In fact, Obama voted against the identical version of Born Alive in IL on March 13, 2003, that passed overwhelmingly on the federal level. But the point is, how can Obama state BornAliveTruth.org is taking his vote out of context when he later said he would have voted for the very bill he voted against?
Obama ad Deception #4: The Obama ad pulled a quote (“None of those who voted against SB-1082 favored infanticide.”) from a September 5, 2008, Chicago Tribune letter to the editor by former state Sen. Rick Winkel, who sponsored IL’s Born Alive in 2003.
The Obama ad stated, “… accusing Obama of letting infants die? It’s a despicable lie. Even the bill’s Republican sponsor said it’s untrue.”
Since Obama relishes context, here is Winkel’s statement, in context:
On March 12, 2003, I presented the neutrality amendment before the state Health and Human Services Committee chaired by then state Sen. Obama. All 10 committee members voted to add the amendment. Nevertheless, during the same hearing, the committee rejected the bill as amended on a vote of 4-6-0. Obama voted no.
I was stunned because the neutrality amendment addressed the concerns of opponents. It was the same neutrality language approved by U.S. Sens. Barbara Boxer, Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton and John Kerry in the federal bill.
None of those who voted against SB-1082 favored infanticide. Rather their zeal for pro-choice dogma was clearly the overriding force behind their negative votes rather than concern that my bill would protect babies who are born alive.
Winkel was being a gentleman. But he confirmed in his next statement that Obama’s pro-abortion zeal caused him to oppose a bill protecting abortion survivors, which is to say the unthinkable but true: During his tenure in the IL Senate Barack Obama successfully fought giving legal protection to abortion survivors, signing some of their death warrants.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
The Democrats are softening up a little about protecting the weak: Charlie Rangel just said “you got to be kind to the disabled.”
He was referring to Sarah Palin.
I didn’t even notice that before. To “prove” that McCain’s ads are “vile”, Obama quotes LIBERAL COLUMNISTS. That would be like McCain quoting Michelle Malkin or Michael Savage to “prove” that Obama is evil.
Of course, it’s not particularly hard to prove that Obama is evil. All you have to do is look at this latest ad.
Nevermind that McCain’s Sex Ed ad was completely, totally, 100% TRUE.
PUMAs Arm in Arm with you Jill and All.
Obama’s Tricks To Get Former Hillary Supporters to Vote for Barack Obama: Here’s what you can do:
Eat crow. To get started, memorize this phrase, take a deep breath and say: “Now that I see how unqualified Sarah Palin is, I realize how I misjudged Hillary Clinton. Even Biden said she would have made a great vice president.” Saying you wish she were the presidential nominee may go too far, and you may not be able to get it out. But if the Hillaryite brings it up, don’t argue, and see below.
To read more: http://www.CountUsOut.WordPress.Com
“whenever we define a previable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we’re really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a – child, a nine-month-old – child that was delivered to term.”
There was a time when slaves/blacks were not seen as people/human beings. Many also debated about whether or not they deserved any rights. Thank God we came to our senses! Unfortunately there are many who still can’t figure if and when a baby is a “person”. Mr. Obama speaks of compassion but where is the compassion for these “persons” who are helpless, weak, innocent, and can’t vote?
All I can say is “God have mercy on us”.
Sarah Palin is supposed to be a pit bull with lipstick, but the McCain campaign has her muzzled and on a short leash.
Her interview with Sean Hannity sounded like a beauty contestant answering inane questions with a pull string Barbie Doll quality.
There is nothing new it what she says. Palin sounds just like any other politician. Stick to talking points. Do not risk offending anyone.
FreeSarahPalin! FreeSarahPalin! Free Sarah Palin!
everyone who defend mccain will get this
nursegotrocks (12 minutes ago)everyone certainly seems to agree with me about you being retarded. you have no idea what i do for animals. you cannot glean that from a quick look at my youtube page. yet you think that you know. you attack those that will not support that animal killing whore. this makes you a complete hypocrite. the animals rights people on youtube are coming out hard against palin. i was for mccain until he picked her. how you can say you love animals and support her is beyond me.
You know, Jamie, the ability to spew profanity laced venom does not make your post any more convincing.
DaniellaCountUsOut, 5:14p: I love the PUMAs!
Reporter (Obama supporter) calls Sarah Palin ‘white trash’ and has look of a porn actress:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2008/09/19/cbc-s-mallick-white-trash-palin-has-porn-actress-look-smart-people-fl
Good Grief! Obama’s ad is just kinda frightening! I’m in Illinois, so presidential ads son’t exactly get shown here.
Keep up the work Jill.
Doyle, just to make things clear, I made a video saying I’m for mccain and people are calling me retarded. I quoted one of those comments. Either way, I will go and remove this from my homepage. Jill, I hope everything goes well.
Doyle,
I think Jamie was quoting us something that someone left for her on her youtube profile.
And I thought the Spanish Limbaugh ad was the worst distortion put out by the Obama campaign. This one, though, takes the cake. No wonder Biden thinks Hillary should take his place.
During his tenure in the IL Senate Barack Obama successfully fought giving legal protection to abortion survivors, signing some of their death warrants.
This is a lie and you know it. Infanticide was already illegal in Illinois.
If you’re going to make ads based around sleazy, despicable lies, you shouldn’t be surprised when your target calls you on it. And since McCain is already running the most dishonest campaign in the history of this nation, you should have known that adding more disgusting lies to the mix would only wind up backfiring on him.
So, keep it up, Jill! Keep on making John McCain look bad! He totally deserves it.
Hey reality, typing in all bold doesn’t make your lies true. Neither does using italics make your lies true. Not even if you underline your lies do they become true.
The fact is, and you know this since you’ve been here so long, that Obama opposed a law which would have REQUIRED doctors to treat ALL survivors of abortion, regardless of whether or not the doctor subjectively viewed them to be viable or not. The current law had a loophole in it, through which a doctor could REFUSE TREATMENT TO A SURVIVOR OF ABORTION if HE PERSONALLY THOUGHT that the baby might not be able to survive.
Barack Obama supports that loophole. Why? Because he thinks that closing it, eventhough it could save the lives of babies, might AFFECT “CHOICE”, ie, abortion.
That’s what your candidate wants. That’s what your vile little cockroach Obama thinks is good law. If he’s elected, I think I’ll call him President Cockroach.
Rep. Rangel(Democrat and Obama supporter) calls Palin ‘Disabled’
http://wcbstv.com/campaign08/congressman.charles.rangel.2.821541.html
Celebrity, Democrat and Obama supporter says Sarah Palin would be gang raped by blacks in Manhatten:
http://media.newsbusters.org/stories/sandra-bernhard-palin-would-be-gang-raped-blacks-manhattan.html
If there was already an Illinois law in place protecting abortion survivors, what was the harm in voting in favor of the new one?
What is truly vile is this segment of the campaign. The candidates (note: both) have ceased to care about how they plan to fix America or improve our situation or promote a positive image of us (this all needs doing, let us admit) or better education or healthcare or whatever. It’s purely mudslinging and trying to undermine the opposition as much as humanly possible. They need to cut it out (as do those who perpetuate it). It is truly pathetic and completely undermines our democracy. Aren’t we supposed to decide upon who to vote for based on who will do the best job? Who is the best qualified? Whose ideology we support? Or in the time since I’ve moved to Canada has it changed so that we vote for whoever can hurl the last insult?
As we say in French: j’en ai marre. I’m fed up.
Elephants indeed. They’re both being a$$es.
Jamie and Bobby, I would just as soon not know what some potty mouth said about Sarah Palin, thanks all the same.
Leah,
do you jnow that a reporter from Canada called Palin ‘white trash’?
Reality:
Actions have consequences.
When you sow to the wind you reap the whirlwind.
Obama’s vote against the BAIPA was despicable no matter how you and all the ohter Libs twist and spin it.
As the Dems are targeting Sara Palin for standing up to her abusive brother-in-law and all the AK hacks that support Barack Obama, your BO should be investigated by Congress and then we’ll see who’s lying..
i’m so frustrated at all these celebrities that won’t shut their yaps about sarah palin…i wanted to take my kids (still sounds weird using the plural XD ) to go see Igor, but now it’ll be a cold day in hades before i spend a dime on those airheads. i’m thinking about cancelling my subscription to noggin with an angry letter because of the sandra bernhard thing.
I should really stop reading so much garbage about Palin. I can hardly believe how low people will go to bash her. The worst I have heard so far? That Sarah should have aborted Trig!! Awful.
Jasper: you’re obviously missing the point. I don’t care. Quit perpetuating this nonsense, for heaven’s sake! You’re as bad as any of them when you join in. Yes. Including Obama.
Jasper 6:39PM
Eh, Sandra Bernhard, enlightened and tolerant liberal Democrat that you are notwithstanding, let me give you some advise and a little history lesson.
The stereotype of the black man as the drooling sexual predator ready to pounce on the first white woman he sees was used to “justify” the terror of the KKK, the humiliation of Jim Crow, and the horror and brutality of lynchings.
Carla 9:14PM
The Palin bashers would have loved nothing more than for her to have aborted Trig. Then they could pound their chests in self righteous, and totally phony “indignation” about her hypocrisy in living up to her PL beliefs only when its easy for her to do so.
What would Jesus do, y’all? You people need to look upon the face of Jesus in my laughing Jesus picture. Warms your heart right up.
The only way it could get better would be if Jesus were riding an elephant. Alas…
Carla, I’ve heard the argument made that since Sarah Palin did NOT abort Trig, that proves that she is not fit to hold national office. “Pro-choice”, indeed.
Those complaints were actually leveled against McCain’s ad about Obama’s support of comprehensive sex ed for Kindergartners:
Is there a problem with the formatting to see these complaints, or is it my computer? I’m not seeing any content related to this, just JPEGs underneath and unrelated content above.
Uh yeah… that’s pretty ridiculous, John. Yikes. Talk about hypocrisy, eh?
Mary,
I agree totally…the Democrat party and their supporters have changed so much in the last 35 years. Especially since 2000, I think some of them have gone mad.
JFK had his problems, but he wasn’t nutty like these people.
Jasper, you’re right about the last 35 years. Take a look at this quote from 37 years ago:
“While the deep concern of a woman bearing an unwanted child merits consideration and sympathy, it is my personal feeling that the legalization of abortion on demand is not in accordance with the value which our civilization places on human life. Wanted or unwanted, I believe that human life, even at its earliest stages, has certain rights which must be recognized – the right to be born, the right to love, the right to grow old.”
-Ted Kennedy, 1971. YES, TED KENNEDY. My GOD, what happened to this man?
So are you all totally against abortion when a young girl is raped or incest is involved… How about when a mother’s life is in danger?
I work with high risk maternity patients and even though I am pro-life… I simply cannot ethically feel that I can make the call if a mother’s life is in danger..And to be honest, it has happened… we all know it.
So what are your feelings?
Also– don’t you think that the ultimate party would be a pro-life Democrat? Seriously, I am so overwhelmed and sickened by the Republicans perspective on health care-insurance companies… big company buissness.. Isn’t the Jesus that I knew more concerned about helping folks.
Right now I hear more conflict with poverty, single mother’s who cannot retrieve benefits to help them survive with their children than woman saying..”Gosh I wish I could have an abortion”…
Answers?
Galena,
It is safe to say that nearly every pro-lifer supports abortion to save the mother’s life. That is definitely not an issue for either side of the debate.
“Also– don’t you think that the ultimate party would be a pro-life Democrat?”
YES
Galena:
I know of no one that has ever wanted to ban abortions to protect the life of the mother. If you have any evidence to the contrary please let me know.
As for rape and incest, the point of view is what is the difference in how the life is created? Is the fetus less of a human because it wasn’t formed by a married couple?
If only abortion were about pregnancies caused by rape and incest. The percentage of the 40 million abortions caused by rape and incest would make the story unimportant to any politician.
Galena, every single anti-abortion law which ever existed in the history of the United States of America has had a “life” exception in it.
Even the staunchly pro-life Catholic Church allows for medical treatments which may put the unborn child at risk, IF the mother’s life is also at risk. So essentially, your argument is an old pro-abortion canard which unfortunately has been repeated endless times.
Your other argument about Republicans is also an old canard. Just because Republicans support economic freedom doesn’t mean that they hate the poor. Republicans tend to put their money where their mouth is by donating more money to charity – to the poor – than Democrats do. Conservative Republicans believe that we should be, as St. Paul wrote, cheerful givers.
At the same time, the modern Republican party absolutely supports Welfare for the poor. We do indeed support that government “safety net”, but at the same time, we opppose those liberal Democrat politicians who seem to think that people and families should stay in that safety net for their entire lives. Republicans believe that if a person falls into the safety net, it’s our job to give them a hand up out of the net until they are once again able to stand on their own.
What we Republicans do not support, however, is “Welfare” for the middle class. That is Socialism. The middle class doesn’t need and shouldn’t want Welfare. The middle class needs economic freedom.
John L, 7:19am
You are so right. This “life of the mother” is an emotional ploy. The exception for the mother’s life, sometimes even for rape, incest, and fetal anomolies, have always existed. I have worked in both non religious and religious hospitals, including Catholic, prior to and after R v W. NEVER have I seen a situation where everything necessary, including abortion, wasn’t done to save a mother’s life. There was NEVER any expectation or law that a pregnant woman would be allowed to die when an abortion or other treatment would save her life.
Thankfully in this day and age, with technology what it is and advanced diagnostic and medical care, as well as high risk maternal care units, it rarely comes down to the question of the life of the mother versus that of the child.
This is why the argument that Tiller is needed to save women’s “health” and “lives” is so absurd and a total fallacy. Any woman at risk, either her health or life, need only go to the nearest facility equipped to handle her needs.
That is intersting.. For one… I was just asking questions and you are acting like I was being upset with something..Isn’t a blog for questions?
Secondly.. educate me.. is abortion for a woman who has a life threatening danger OK for you all?
Third.. Obviously the Republican Party hasn’t helped the poor.. If our country was the size of Rhode Island..maybe it would work.. IF you walk into most cities.. well.. the amount of charity can only help..well..maybe a sliver of the needs.
When I say charity.. I suppose you aren’t really understanding. Obviously you need to get your feet wet in this big world called America. I honestly think that you so called Conservatives have your priorities wrong… You are so easily against abortion..but play the same card everytime we bring up the poor.. My husband and I..Who are people that once supported George W..and are first to say and support anti-abortion laws.. Will tell you, if you go and work in the “Real World”– the people that are hurting.. YOur methods.. are actually false. We need all the charities.. but we also need a government that values the poor– helps in ways that will rise above.. Maybe socialism isn’t so bad if it means actually caring for people that are hurting.. You are a naive, and perosnally shame on you to feel Christ Like or in his image if you think that economic freedom comes before caring for the sick, poor and needs…
and a side note… when I say poor— I don’t mean the stereo type you may have in your head.. I mean… so much of America, white, black, hispanic, young, old… disabled.
Wow.. our country needs help if this is the side that thinks they are so Holy.
Galena,
Please give me some examples of what the Democrats have done to vastly improve the life of the poor?
BTW, its the Democrats, beholden to the teachers’ unions, who oppose school vouchers. This would enable poor parents to send their children to better schools and truly improve their children’s chances for a better future.
Also, conservative black scholars such as Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams have said the policies of liberal Democrats are what caused the breakdown of the black family and community, and the resulting ongoing poverty.
Galena,
I wholeheartedly support charities. We have several in our community, run by local people and organizations, not some faceless gov’t bureaucrat. They didn’t wait for the gov’t to set up a program.
Charities must produce results and account to you the donor for what becomes of your donations.
If they fail to meet your expectations, you send your donation elsewhere to another charity that does indeed produce results.
The gov’t takes your money, squanders it, and produces no results, except more poverty and dependency. I see no compassion in faceless bureaucracies, only the processing of people like cattle.
Also keep in mind the only time the gov’t “cares” about any of us is on April 15th.
You’ll see how much they really care when you fail to cough up the money they say you owe them.
Galena,
I appreciate your questions. Please do not make the mistake of hearing one or two people here and assuming they speak for the number of people who consistently post here or are just passing through.
I support MANY charities and am often struck by just how many churches are going above and beyond the call to help people. All kinds of people. Without the government.
I had a friend who contracted an infection while 20 weeks pregnant. It was killing her. She did not want an abortion but thankfully for her, her water broke and her baby was delivered naturally and lived a short time. Everything was tried to save both mother and baby.
“Secondly.. educate me.. is abortion for a woman who has a life threatening danger OK for you all?”
Asked and answered. We’ve all explained our position on this issue. If the mother’s life is threatened, doing everything to save her, including abortion, is fine. We want to perserve the most life, and unfortunately this sometimes means the baby must die.
Here’s the thing about socialized medicine. It is a cesspool of incompetancy. I used medicaid to suppliment my private insurance during my first pregnancy because I was constantly hospitalized and my private insurance was only paying like 1/3 of my total bill. I can not even begin to explain the ridiculousness of government run insurance. To begin with, you are treated with less dignanty than a prisoner. The social workers are downright rude, and there are so many barriars put up, I believe, to simply discourage people from applying. The levels of incompetency go all the way to the top. I put in a change of address 5 months before it actually went through. In fact, it didn’t go through before my baby was born and I had to deal with being out of network. Ultimately, I had bills that went unpaid by medicaid because of the multiple layers of beuracratic crap.It was a nightmare. I was thankful that there was someone to help with the medical bills, but in all honesty the experience has only made me certain that universal healthcare run by the government is NOT the way to go. 3 years later I’m STILL getting bills that were supposed to be covered. Government run healthcare is a quagmire.
What we need in this country is to overturn the regulations that prevent pregnant women from getting traditional health insurance. This law forces women into government run programs that are subpar and humiliating at best.
John Lewandowski 10:59 PM, Sept 19:
Sounds like Ted Kennedy was still a CATHOLIC (as opposed to his status as CINO right now) at that point, and then something happened that made him support abortion on demand.
Al Gore was supposedly once Pro Life.
I think I remember reading that Jesse Jackson was once pro life.
There is no need to apologize to Gelena for fighting for the best foundations for life in this country. If she would climb down from her own self righteous position of lecturing others she might see that she herself is apparently without the knowledge of that “real world” she accuses others of not seeing.
Gelena, try being a social worker today with any fight in you for MORAL welfare of others. Take some time and see what actually is the home life that warrants placement in foster care. Get those kids finally emotionally settled with caring people only to be demanded by law to have visits with natural parents for just a weekend and witness teenage boys forced to pimp for their “mothers” or girls being abused by those “mothers'” boyfriends. Your kind of bleeding heart of “compassion” is what permits the “boyfriends” to then force these underage teens to Planned Parenthood for abortion with PP’s coverup re: their age, failing to report the situation to the law, sending them back into the same abusive setting to be raped again and again with more returns for more abortions. Rather, it’s the ones writing the so-called laws of this country for “choice” who are the abusers and who haven’t a clue what vile protection they are offering to abusers. And to send such a monster into your White House to not only perpetuate the current horror but to enhance it so that America becomes the most pro abortion country in the world is pure cooperation with diabolical evil!
When you have witnessed so-called compassionate “social workers” so naive that even before Roe was legal to pay themselves through a collection for an underage, innocent kid to fly to NY alone for an abortion; only to have her naturally panic and call a brother who actually did have the legal rights over her; followed by the brother so angered he wanted to shoot the workers, then you might understand how this now legal 50,000,000 slaughter has so much backing by the lemmings who have their need for expediency mixed up with compassion.
If you have so many questions to ask of others here who attempt to do the right thing for others, then please admit that you must be the one still a bit naive of just how the “real world” and human nature always works down in those sewers of reality and sin.
Lauren 8:47am
ANYTHING the gov’t runs is a cesspool of incompetency.
KC,
All too often when I point out that people make messes of their own lives, are responsible for their own poverty, and that one cannot force people to change bad lifestyle and health habits or take any responsiblity for their lives, I’m attacked as uncompassionate and not caring about the poor.
There are people like this in the world. I know people for who buying big dogs, cigarettes, drugs, and alcohol takes precedence over paying their utility bill. These people are also destroying their health.
Sorry, but no government program rewires people’s brains. I believe those with the best chances are private and local charities, but I have seen those fail.
Sorry, but you can’t help people who will take no responsibility to better their lives and some people simply won’t.
Mary, here’s a real conversation I had with one of the social workers(?) on the phone.
Me:Hi, I put in a change of address about 5 months ago and it’s yet to go through.
Her: Yeah, that sounds about right.
Me: Are you kidding me?
Her: No, it takes several months for a change of address.
Me:Well I’m out of network now and I’m having trouble finding a doctor. I have a highrisk pregnancy and this situation is causing me to not have medical care.
Her:…
Me: What am I supposed to do?
Her:…
Me: Ok, look here’s the thing I need to have my address changed so I can use the right provider. Isn’t there someone I can call who can just enter in my information into a computer?
Her: No, that’s all done in Lubock.
Me: Well can’t I call Lubock?
Her: No.
Me: LJLFDJLJEDSFDSLJSDLAJDSLJSDLJDSLJJSLD!!! Deep breath…Is there no one in the state of Texas who I can call to get my insurance changed?
Her: No.
Me: Alright. Bye.
Fast forward 2 months Me Vs. Another Phone SW
Me: Hi, I’ve called about 300 times trying to get my insurance changed. Well, turns out my kid’s already been born, but they’re still having issues with my insurance.
Her:There’s nothing I can do. Just go to the doctor and insist that they take your insurance.
Me: Ok…so should I just expect to get billed?
Her: Yes
WOOHOO GO SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!!
Lauren, that’s nasty – good grief, can the gov’t not do any better than that?
Is there any avenue for you to talk to a supervisor, etc. – somebody who could get something done to help you?
Doug, 9:37am
This is the gov’t at its most efficient! The supervisor was probably busy trying to straighten up some other mess(es).
Haha, no that was the supervisor. There was literally no one who could help me.
They just said to get billed and then send them the bills.
Of course, I did that and then they said that they weren’t liable for the bills…
It was horrible. I mean, I am thankful that they were there because my private insurance was definitely lacking (even though it was super expensive!) but there needs to be a better way.
I understand that insurance companies have to assess their risks, but my goodness, there should be an option for people to get better private insurance rather than falling into horrible government run insurance.
So, we’re looking to get my husband a new insurance policy because his company just dropped their insurance plan.
Here’s a direct quote I just got from a broker:
Broker: Well, our company deals mostly with highrisk individuals, so your husband is probably better served elsewhere.
Me:Ok, thank you for being upfront about that. Actually, can I enquire about what your rates are for insurance w/ maternity coverage? I pay out the nose right now and the riders basically exclude me from getting real coverage.
Broker:Er, we don’t offer maternity coverage. We view it as something that you do to yourself.
Me:K, thanks.
See, in order to support pregnant women we really need to revise these types of policies!
While I was pregnant with my 4th child(he is 2 now)we were uninsured and had no idea what to do. We were referred to Catholic Charities who charged me $40 for ALL prenatal care including ultrasound. I was charged $500 for a waterbirth which we paid $60 a month for until baby was born. I thank God for them! They are there for those facing hard times. Some may abuse the system of course but I found it an incredible load off this Mommy’s mind.
Lauren,
UGH!!!!!
I’ll pipe in with my own gov’t-run nightmare story:
Was on Medicaid for my second child’s birth. the benefits were due to expire at the end of Oct. Due to their oversight, the benefits were not officially cancelled until 2 months later.
For those 2 extra months, I did not know that they hadn’t done their job. Out of the blue I get a letter stating that I owed the State of Florida $400:
Me: What on earth for?
Them: I don’t know, but if it says you owe $400, then you owe $400!
Me: But I NEVER got a check for $400. How can I be expected to pay for something that I never received?
Them: We’ll look into it, ma’am.
Later…
Them: Turns out, your benefits were not cancelled in October, the state continued paying for your benefits, so now you owe what the state paid out for those benefits.
Me: Who received that money?
Them:The insurance company who provided coverage.
Me: Then the state needs to pursue them for the money. I never got it. You were the ones that screwed up.
Them: Yes, but you received the benefits.
Me: I wan’t pregnant anymore! What benefits would I have recieved???
Them: You still owe us the money.
To make a very long story short, after getting Legal Aid involved, even traveling to the headquarters of the Insurance company in question, there was a way that Medicaid could have received their money from the Company, but they refused to do so because of an appeal expiration.
It took over a year and a half to get to the bottom of this, and to this day, I’m still paying back the money on a monthly basis, money that never once touched my fingers.
Granted, miscommunication cuts across all sectors of business, but to expect the gov’t to handle the burden when at present they are incompetent with the load they have now, it’s just asking for more headaches.
Carder. Ugh! That’s terrible.
I just don’t understand why the state run mediciad can’t just handle itself like any other insurance company. I mean, if I have a problem with Aetna…I call Aetna. They have magical computers that are magically linked to other computers and they can magically enter in the informaion into the system.
Not so with medicaid. They have to send the information to 23 different people and institutions and then stomp 3 times and cross their fingers.
It’s just absurd.
The state of our healthcare in this country is broken, but I shudder to think that government run universal health care is the answer. *shudder*
lauren- honestly, I don’t think that’s all the government. I think a lot of it is just insurance in general. It’s insanity. I’m fully covered with private insurance and it’s taken me more than 8 months to get them to accept bills from one of my new doctors.
Erin, I’ve had issues with my private insurance, but never anything like the issues I’ve had with medicaid. I’ve had everything from superawesome insurance (via UPS…seriously guys, if you want some great insurance UPS is the place to go!) to meh, insurance to ridiculously expensive insurance that didn’t really cover anything, and yes, medicaid.
Medicaid gave me the most problems without question. In fact, even more irritatingly, the fact that I had private insurance caused medicaid to freak out and deny coverage.
Wow, I’m just learning all sorts of things today.
My husband’s superawesome insurance broker who found us an awesomely cheap plan for him (50/month…35 dollar copays, 20% coinsurance 2500 deductable, 5000 total yearly out of pocket limit) just told me that in Texas she does not have a single individual carrier for insurance w/ maternity coverage. I know they exist (I had one that was 300/month, did not cover c-sections or preterm labor and had a 40 copay) but apparantly they are super hard to find.
Is anyone else greatly disturbed by this? I mean, insurance companies basically make it impossible for someone to get maternity coverage unless their employeer happens to offer it. This is just…wrong.
I’m puzzled. If there is or was a law in Illinois protecting born alive infants, then why were these babies being routinely left to die as Jill Stanek states? Obviously whatever law, if any, existed was a dead letter. In such circumstances it strikes me as very smug and callous of Mr. Obama to dismiss the controversy by saying there was already a law protecting those infants.
lauren,
I had no idea it was so hard to get your own maternity coverage. That is outrageous!
Carla,
I agree, Catholic Charities is an outstanding organization which truly cares about the people they help. It’s a very worthy recipient of donations too. Thanks for your story.
It is amazing, but not surprising, to see how dishonest and deceptive Obama’s camp has become. Every day they sink to new lows. They are truly desperate. This fellow who promised a new era of sunshine in politics has become exactly what he says he is against. So much for “out with the old and in with the new.”
It is also amazing that he is not at least 20 points down in the polls. That an inexperienced and very dishonest Saul Alinsky socialist who pals around with slumlords, unrepentant bombers, and hate-filled preachers could have gotten this far speaks volumes about how powerful and leftist (and sometimes just poorly informed) the MSM is.
It took over a year and a half to get to the bottom of this, and to this day, I’m still paying back the money on a monthly basis, money that never once touched my fingers.
Carder, that’s crazy, and Lauren beat me to it with the “Ugh!”
….
Granted, miscommunication cuts across all sectors of business, but to expect the gov’t to handle the burden when at present they are incompetent with the load they have now, it’s just asking for more headaches.
As far as national health care, I’d be willing to give it a try. It works pretty well in countries like Canada, and everybody’s covered.
Doug,
A wealthy Canadian friend of Hillary’s came to the US for treatment for her late stage breast cancer. Why would she do that if care in Canada is so wonderful? Do low income and middle income Canadian women have this option?
So John Lewandowski tells us that Republicans absolutely do not want welfare for middle class citizens, and that middle class citizens should not want welfare, yet several posters here have used welfare and charity services in the past. I do not believe those of you who have used medicaid and other charities were in deep poverty, either.
I have used Medicaid in hard times, when my husband lost his job. My sister in law was an unwed single mother and was on welfare. She is now a nurse and off of welfare. Use it and move on. Welfare is used as a lifestyle choice for many.
Alnie, we were above the poverty line, but obviously within the medicaid limits.
However, we’ve also had times when we have made less money than we did when I was on medicaid and had better insurance coverage. I was hesitent to post about our past use of medicaid because I was fairly certain someone like you would come along and lambast me for using it. I’ve heard it before. Until insurance companies begin offering true maternity coverage, women will be left with holes in benefits. Goverment insurance is not the answer to this problem. If we want government involved, we should improve HIPPA laws so that women are not left with holes in coverage. We should not allow insurance companies to be preditors. Of course, as we all saw with AIG, this is much easier said than done.
Basically, health care in this country is broken by corporate greed, but not by its underlying philosophy. We should improve how insurance companies run, not abandon ship.
If 4,000 babies are aborted every day…
And we make abortion illegal…
We could theoretically have 4,000 more babies born every day..
And many of those would be of lower-income families..
I highly doubt that every charity could cover for them..
Especially if government programs are getting cut and efficiency reform halted!
A wealthy Canadian friend of Hillary’s came to the US for treatment for her late stage breast cancer. Why would she do that if care in Canada is so wonderful? Do low income and middle income Canadian women have this option?
Mary, didn’t say “perfect,” didn’t say “so wonderful.” But you better believe it’s a lot better than not having any health insurance.
I don’t know the circumstances of Hillary’s friend, and people from the US go to Canada sometimes too.
Testing… testing…
Since this addresses Dionne’s criticism of McCain asserting (accurately) that Obama wanted sex ed. taught to Kindergartners, I thought I’d to link to articles that corroborate.
I’ve tried twice before. Does this system not allow links?
Doug,
The Canadian health care system is known for having serious wait time issues. I read an article a few years ago explaining that the wait times were function of the density of the population…which of course makes sense. However, because Canada specifically bans private clinics, if you do have the money, they will still not allow you to pay for better care. This is why many Canadians come to the US for care.
I read another article that the average wait time to see a specialist is 4 weeks, and the average wait time in an ER is 4 hours.
Certainly the poor have health care, but at the expense of everybody else. You dont have to be a millionaire to have general insurance. The vast majority of people in the US can afford some insurance, even if it sucks…and that is assuming that they dont have insurance provided by their jobs already. If we switched to a system like Canada, the minority would benefit but the majority would suffer.
Certainly we have a problem, but what should be addressed are the “hard to insure.” My personal policy costs me 40+ bucks a month. I dont need, nor do I deserve, government assistance, even if I were to only make 1500 a month. At the same time, someone making 5000 a month may have so many troubles getting insurance (pregnancy for one) that the government should step in. It is a complicated issue of course, and I wouldnt begin to assume that I have a “better” solution necessarily, but I do know that even as little money as I make, I would much rather pay for my insurance than live off a government program.
By the way, I just pulled up the Canadian wikipedia to confirm some of the things I had read a while ago, and I also found another problem with the Canadian system. 1 in 12 Canadian born, Canadian trained doctors leaves to practice in the US due to competition.
At the same time, someone making 5000 a month may have so many troubles getting insurance (pregnancy for one) that the government should step in.
I agree with this — I’m no economist so I stay out of particulars on the issue but I really strongly believe that we need some kind of massive reform to the health insurance system in this country. My boyfriend is uninsurable because he had the audacity to survive a benign but dangerously-located tumor; the expensive insurance he had paid for privately for about 8 years dropped him as soon as the doctors declared him ‘healthy’ again. Fortunately he was immediately offered a job that gives him insurance, but I do kind of view tying a person’s physical wellbeing to their job to be anti-free market. He is not free to leave his job for a better-paying one, or for one that is better suited to his abilities. He is not free to start his own business. I mean he is free to do so but it would be stupid, and reckless. It’s not about desire of a hand-out or lack of willingness to pay. He’d gladly go back to paying the $500/month and making more money, having free time (put more money back into the economy, produce more, volunteer again).
I’m not saying we’re all owed our dream job, but if a guy can’t leave a low-paying job that treats him like crap for a high-paying job that he loves and is more than qualified for, simply because he might get sick — is there not something off about that? It seems almost like feudalism or something — you stay not because you can’t leave but because there’s nowhere else to go. It seems to me that something like that kind of dampens entrepreneurial spirit and market competition.
Arlen,
Copy and paste the complete http: address (including http) and the link should post. I hope that works for you.
Pip,
So abortion is good for the economy?
As MK would say
What did we do before 1973??
Where is MK?? :)
Carla,
no i’m saying it is necessary to have these programs especially if we want abortion to be illegal. Studies show that the more programs like welfare are available to mothers the more likely they will be to choose to have the child. And that is while abortion is legal!
Carla,
I have read that in the past they sent girls to homes or hastily rushed them into a marriage that may have well been against the woman’s real desires.
Its amazing how the different discussions here have a central theme of ‘the right thing v. what appears to be right.’
Abortion used for last resort birth control is never okay. People who support it for lower-income families as to relieve the economy are just the modern day eugenics movement. As for abortions due to the mother’s life at risk, I personally don’t think I could go through with it but I wouldn’t want the gov’t making that decision for every other woman.
It’s no question we have a problem with health care coverage in this country! What I don’t get is the way people are so narrow minded in looking for a solution. People always seem to think its a this or that matter, and its far from that! I don’t believe Canada’s system is for us (majority suffers for sake of minority) nor should we stay the same. Why doesn’t someone use traditional American ingenuity to find a solution that keeps health care (and insurance) primarily private but solves the issues we are currently facing?!
As for which party cares about the poor, NEITHER! Don’t fool yourself, the Dems don’t care about the “least of us” any more then the Reps. Their so-called help has only helped increase their power. If you look at the history of society’s morals in relation to increased gov’t involvement you’ll see a trend where personal responsibility declined among lower-income families (note: did not disappear). Before advocating for those kinds of programs see if they actually worked long-term on a big scale!
As for Jesus, he commanded US to be there for one another, NOT leave it up to the gov’t b/c you pay taxes! If that were the case He could have said so! (people paid taxes after all!) I’m not so naive as to think that we can exist (at least for now) w/o gov’t involvement (i.e. welfare). What I do know is that any politician saying He/She is the answer and will solve all our problems through the gov’t (and only needs me to be a cash cow) is not only a liar but a deceiver as well!
It’s time for our nation to realize we the people are the solution and till we get our acts together our gov’t can’t be expected to behave any better then it does!
Pip,
I had another dream once where every city and town in every state in this country had a place where women could live that were facing unplanned pregnancies. They were cared for,loved and supported and given what they needed. What if that were an extension of the kind of help already offered by Pregnancy Care Centers?
Absolutely need to get to work so they are ready when Roe v Wade and Doe v Bolton are overturned!!
PS
My husband was born in a maternity home when his mommy got pregnant out of wedlock. Her family sent her away. He was left with foster parents who took his very first baby pictures before he was to be put up for adoption. Before that happened his mommy drove right back for her boy. :) I am so glad she did.
By the way, I just pulled up the Canadian wikipedia to confirm some of the things I had read a while ago, and I also found another problem with the Canadian system. 1 in 12 Canadian born, Canadian trained doctors leaves to practice in the US due to competition.
Oliver, good comments.
When I lived in Canada I read of doctors leaving ‘cuz they’d make a whole crapload more money in the US.
Neither system is perfect, certainly.
Carla,
Yeah that is a good idea as long as it is not something girls are ‘sent’ to. If living communities are offered for women voluntarily seeking a supportive community and living situation that would be awesome.
Pip,
I’m sure there are parents who would force their teenage daughters to go live in one of those homes. Not that I condone it, just saying that it does/could happen. Just like there are parents who force their teenage daughters to get abortions.
Carla,
There’s a home for unwed mothers around this area. I think it’s called Mercy House or something like that. The women go there voluntarily obviously and they stay there through their pregnancy and for 2-3 years after their baby is born, and the house helps them find employment,schooling, etc. so they can get on their feet. They also have to do their own housework there and when the mothers have to go to work or school, the other mothers watch each other’s children. It’s a really great place and I wish more of them existed! It’s the productive way to help unwed mothers, as opposed to just handing them a check and some food stamps and wishing them Good Luck.
“Mercy House”
OMG in Saved they almost sent her to a place called “Mercy House”– wonder if it’s based on the same place!
Elizabeth,
What a wonderful place! I do believe that is the answer for women facing unplanned pregnancies! That is the most compassionate thing we can do…offer help and support.
My mother-in-law was “sent” as in her family didn’t know what else to do with her. Shame and all. They thought she would get the help she needed. We have had awesome talks about it. It was 1969 and abortion never even crossed her mind. She did feel afraid and all alone, just as I did. She told me that she was the oldest one there at 24 and it was run by nuns. I was 24 too!! Similar circumstances and extremely different results. I love my MIL! :)
I don’t think it’s based off ot that pip..it’s been around way longer than the movie I think.
A beautiful ad from Catholic Vote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61wj4tJICcc
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=153007-1&showVid=true&clipStart=12251.50&clipStop=15518.50