My goodness, the news cycle runs fast. I heard just a couple hours ago that Drudge had posted about BornAliveTruth.org, and by the time I got to it, it was already moved to page 2. But, hey, I’ll take it. Click to enlarge:
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Excellent. Every single mention of the word abortion in the MSM works in our favor.
this is beginning to get exciting! i am so thankful for you jill and gianna! you are really getting the word out!
Excellent. Every single mention of the word abortion in the MSM works in our favor.
Posted by: Doyle at September 16, 2008 3:45 PM
And ours.
The ad is intentionally deceptive, since it suggests Obama should support “born alive bills”, without indicating the federal act was passed in 2002 and the IL act in 2005, so the issue is moot.
Perhaps it should be re-direced to Saint Sarah, who derailed the Alaska “born alive” bill because the pipeline bill was too important.
Lost the Link,
Sources please?
Goodness, if it weren’t for the proabort sour grapes posters, this wouldn’t be nearly as exciting! :D
Hal and LTL:
You’re losing on the issue. Admitting this is the only honorable thing left to do.
The more the general public learns about abortion, the more they are reviled by it.
The truth is starting to come out and people are paying attention. The worm turns and the pendulum swings.
It’s hard to ignore the truth of abortion in a living, walking, talking, breathing Gianna Jessen and I can see the MSM just chomping at the bit waiting to destroy her as they tried to do with Sarah Palin. We are not surprised since it is people like you who are willing to even destroy innocent and defenseless children in the womb by suction, dismemberment, poisoning and any other murderous process you can conjure up in order to preserve your power over the powerless.
The media can no longer avoid the truth about abortion and as usual are forced to talk about it when they feel they may be left out of the frenzy, of course, they don’t want to miss the opportunity to make a buck.
All I can say is, thanks and please, please keep posting. The fuel you spread on the abortion funeral pyre is quite helpful.
Janet, I earlier sourced it as “Family matters: On Gov. Sarah Palin’s Watch Alaska Liberalized its Abortion Laws” Newsweek web exclusive by Katie Paul, September 6, 2008 11:36 am ET.
I think I will be debating in my dreams and knowing my dreams, I won’t be successful. I am turning this computer off (probably only to turn it right back on) but today was spent here. lol Animal lover and republican. NO I CHANGE MY MIND. I am going to go take a video of a recent rescue that I’m naming after Gianna. Off to do that now. brb. I’ll sleep better knowing that. lol
Well LTL,
Have you figured out a way to break the bond between human and fetus. Every fetus belongs to some species. Which species were you when you were in utero?
sincerly,
your lame brained knuckle dragging neanderthal
I can’t help but note the irony of Jill’s OBSESSION with Obama’s votes on IL born alive bills six or seven years ago. Those votes are moot due to subsequent legislation.
At the same time Jill wants to ignore Palin’s actions against born alive bills in Alaska five to six months ago. I guess sainthood makes you immune from any investigation or criticism.
KB please save your brilliant jury voir dire for your next criminal trial and conviction.
kbhvac, that’s a ban-worthy personal attack there. See you in two weeks.
“that’s a ban-worthy personal attack there”
For a personal attack against himself?
Jill, maybe the domain names “BornAliveUntruth.org” or “BornAliveHidetheTruth.org” are still available.
They would be more descriptive of your efforts to demonize Obamaa for his votes while ignoring Palin’s record on born alive bills in Alaska.
LTL,
What is your source for born alive bills in Alaska?
Obama could be caught on video raping and murdering a baby girl and his “fans” would still vote for him.
Bobby, I read it wrong. I thought he was trying to say “you’re a….”
my apologies to all
LTL @ 4:18,
“Perhaps it should be re-direced to Saint Sarah, who derailed the Alaska “born alive” bill because the pipeline bill was too important.”
LTL @ 5:08,
“Janet, I earlier sourced it as “Family matters: On Gov. Sarah Palin’s Watch Alaska Liberalized its Abortion Laws” Newsweek web exclusive by Katie Paul, September 6, 2008 11:36 am ET.”
This is your source? It’s an opinion piece. Definitely not “Newsweek”.
rockthetruth.blogspot.com/2008/09/sarah-palin-was-final-straw.html – 114k –
Ezek, as an Obama fan, I can say I would NOT vote for him if he was caught on video raping and murdering a baby girl.
Please donate to BornAliveTruth.org so the ad can be aired in more markets.
Hehe, no problem Hal. That’s what I figured :)
in honor of gianna I named our newest rescue gianna. I will also add a link on the video itself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebG1Am_twiU
Anyone see Colbert last night?
http://www.colbertnation.com/home
Check out the word..
Hi PIP:
Remember a while back I was telling you my thoughts of how the Grand Canyon was inded formed by the Flood?
Little ‘ol me, not an archaeologist, not a geologist, not a paleotologist, just a believer in the inerrant word of God.
Well, here’s an article you might find interesting:
http://deltackett.com/2008/09/08/the-%e2%80%9ccanyon%e2%80%9d-final-reflections/
Joe Biden says Repulicans are afraid of Obama’s intelect, and his introducer calls Palin a bucket of fluff.
here is the video:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/09/16/biden-versus-bucket-fluff
Meanwhile, Obama is out visiting Barbara Striesand and her $28,500 a plate campaign fundraiser.
Jasper:
Yep, what a depression, oh my goodness….$28,500.00 per plate and I get to hear BaBa and Obabble in the same night.
or…..
I send my kid to college for 2 years.
Now this is Change we can believe in.
Now don’t forget that the Dems pushed FreddieMac and FannieMae into giving loans to people who couldn’t afford to pay them back.
The real quesiton is can we afford two more years of a Democratically controlled Congress and Pelosi/Ried?
“Ezek, as an Obama fan, I can say I would NOT vote for him if he was caught on video raping and murdering a baby girl.”
If Obama was caught on tape raping and murdering a baby girl, you would declare the tape to be an evil plot from sinister McCain, the most wicked, dishonorable politician of all time.
There are two Americas – the America where decent, hard working people live, and the America where elitist nightmares pay $20K+ to go listen to a demented hasbeen sing about how awesome Barry is how much McCain sucks.
Well John, those elitists are gunna be paying higher taxes under Obama, so they obviously really like the guy enough to pay that price and then pay higher taxes on top of it.
Well Dan, I’m sure they’ll figure out loopholes to avoid paying the higher taxes, just like Ted Kennedy does.
Then they can keep on using their ill-gotten wealth to promote their socialistic system where everyone is equal, except for them.
“Now don’t forget that the Dems pushed FreddieMac and FannieMae into giving loans to people who couldn’t afford to pay them back.”
Yes, that’s correct. Under the affordable housing plan…which just made things even worse for poorer people, forcing lenders to give risky loans to people who couldn’t afford it. Now, they have the nerve to blame it on Rebuplicans. This was passed during the Clinton administration.
freddie mac and fanny mae were run by Clinton cronies. B. Obama recieved the 2nd most campaign contributions from them (with only 4 years in the Senate.)
Jasper, Democrat corruption and liberal stupidity is to blame for this economic disaster, and yet they have the gall to blame it on Republican corruption and conservatism? But it’s OK, because I’m sure their allies in the media will back them up on it. It’s sickening.
LTL,
If I remember correctly, Palin opposed the attachment of the pro-life legislation because it would jeopordize the passage of the alaskan pipeline bill over partisan politics. That is hardly opposing a bill over personal beliefs. Obama opposed the bill because it would supposedly threaten Roe, unlike the Federal Bill. The problem with that excuse is that it was identical to the Federal Bill in that it specifically protected “abortion rights.” Obama more than likely opposed the bill because it in some small way stepped on people’s feelings in regard to their abortion. It didnt threaten abortionist or the abortionee. It just protected the lives of the aborted. Apparently those lives are insulting to the mother, the life giver, and the doctor, the life saver. Obama doesnt want people to specifically kill infants through neglect, he is just okay with it when the alternative is to hurt the attempted killer’s sensibilities.
But, do carry on distorting information, afterall what does Obama pay you for!
I just say this bit of satire on Obama and the Born Alive issue.
http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=3110
Of course some here probably won’t get the satire….
Oops, I meant to say I just saw this…
Time of bed
Oops, I meant to say I just saw this…
Time for bed, I think.
That McCain cover of Streisand’s songs he did on SNL a few years back. ROTFL!
“Pretty annoying isn’t it?”
http://vodpod.com/watch/835874-mccain-sings-streisand
Gianna Lionheart!
Yes, Biden is correct that people are afraid of Obama’s intellect. They’re afraid because his “intellect” is that of a two year old. (At best)
The man has nothing intelligent to say, he can’t speak without stuutering and stammering, thinks there are 57 states and pretty much everything is “above his pay grade”.
I wouldn’t pay 28.5 CENTS to be in the presence of, much less dine with BaBa and Barry.
Thats hilarious Ezek 13:19
Test, test, test.
Just wanted to see if I was really banned for attmepted self deprecating humor.
Still won’t answer the question LTL?
Just pretend you’re under oath, and you are required to tell the truth, then you can avoid personal accountability. The law made you do it! It is not against the law to be honestly wrong. You do not have to get it right. You just have to be honest.
With any and all due respect
lame brained knuckle dragging neanderthal (LBKDN)
Knowledge puffs up = inflated ego = Obama = willing to do anything for power.
Loves build up = humility = a servant’s heart = Sarah Palin.
LTL
‘Brilliant’ is not a word I would choose. The prosecutor liked my technique. It identified the jurors who would be least sympathetic to the defendant. As it turned out it was all of them.
But I was not the one on trial. The jurors were. They convicted themselves. It is all on the record.
The abortionist’s name is Baird Bardarson. He advertised in the Yellow Pages in the several surrounging states, British Columbia, and Alaska that he killed prenatal children through the second trimester of pregnancy. He actually did not draw the line at the second trimester. He killed human fetuses in the third trimester as well.
Doc Baird looked like Marcus Welby, MD. Grey haired and distinguished. God still loves him, but HE is probably not too excited about the detour in the doctors career path. Baird swerved to run over the babies, not to miss them.
But hey, no ones perfect. Even highly educated people can mistake a baby for a sexually transmitted disease.
with any and all due respect
lbkdn
HisMan-
yeah, that’s exactly why she’s suddenly blocking an ethics investigation when she claimed a week or two she had nothing to hide and cooperate.
She stands only to gain if there is truly nothing to hide in the investigation, she’ll improve that reform image and make the Democrats look like fools.
Seems like she has something to hide after all.
YEAHHHH!!! i saw that ad twice now. once last night on fox news and one this morning on the same channel. i was so excited to see it! my husband must of thought i was nuts!
Dan:
This is a witch hunt being perpetrated by Democrats that support Barack Obama.
Even AK state employees are refusing to comply with subpoenas.
I’m telling you Dan, this does not bode well for the Democrats as they try to turn this mole hill into a mountain.
Sarah Palin is going to use this to her advantage and is playing the Democrats like a fiddle.
You should stop hoping so much that she fails. It just ain’t gonna happen cuz you’re lookin’ at the first woman VP of the US.
You Libs hate her because she’s a genuaine Christian and not just a Christian in name only like Barack Obama. You don’t really hate her, you hate the Christ that she believes in, lives in, and trusts in. The spiritual forces that rule the air see this and are terrified. So what do they do? They send their surrogates after her to attack her and to rational thinking people looking at this, Libs are exposed for who they are. The mask is taken off and the fangs are revealed. Go back and read my April 17, 2007 post.
Recongize this for what it is Dan. A spiritual battle being played out in the spiritual realm being manifested in the physical world. Really ask yourself. What makes Libs hate this woman so much and so irrationally? It makes no sense does it Dan? My goodness, who would ever think a married mother of 5, a reformer, a believer, a woman who chose to deliver her Down’s syndome baby, could evoke such vitriolic attacks?
Face this too. Barack Obama is already defeated and he knows it. Kepp posting Dan, along with LTL and Hal.
amen HisMan!
liberal women are just upset because they will never be the woman that sarah is! they like to believe that they are the one’s in control but it is the hardworking mom’s out there that run this world!
I for one do not hate Sarah Palin, but I hope I NEVER become the woman she is. Becky, what makes you think that liberal women are not hardworking mothers? I plan on being one, and I live in Bezzzerkley!
I do not agree with her politics, and from what I have read of her I am convinced that she would not be an asset in the White House. There are too many things about her that I do not agree with and believe would be a detriment to our country.
“yeah, that’s exactly why she’s suddenly blocking an ethics investigation when she claimed a week or two she had nothing to hide and cooperate.
She stands only to gain if there is truly nothing to hide in the investigation, she’ll improve that reform image and make the Democrats look like fools.
Seems like she has something to hide after all.”
Dan, you’re very neive if you believe that this investigation will not turn into a partisan ploy to drop and “October suprise” and be used to help get Obama elected. She has an obligation to make sure that the truth is reported, and this was definitely in danger of not happening.
Perhaps Jill is busy asking Sarah Palin why she dumped the Alaska born alive bill in April out of political expediency. I’m sure Jill wants to tell the truth about Palin’s record. After all, her new venture is “born alive truth” Right? LOL
I for one do not hate Sarah Palin, but I hope I NEVER become the woman she is.
I could only hope to have the kind of strength and courage that Sarah Palin has.
HisMan-
You are aware it was voted on by a REPUBLICAN DOMINATED state legislature right? And that the committee is BIPARTISAN?
So much for a Democrat “witch hunt”.
Stories out of Alaska seem to say state lawmakers on both sides aren’t too happy with her right now, not to mention citizens who have been hearing her spout accountability at every opportune moment. Suddenly when its her turn to possibly be held accountable, or deemed innocent of any chargers, she says “thanks but no thanks” like McCain has been misleadingly telling anyone who’ll listen about her stance on the Bridge to Nowhere.
Yes, that’s right HisMan, all Democrats hate Christ, that’s the simple solution. Get real, please. I’d argue that not only is that ridiculous, but in my opinion ought to be deleted. It is needlessly inflammatory, a horrible generalization, and just outright ridiculous.
Oliver-
Its a republican dominated bipartisan committee who ordered and oversees the investigation. The republicans have every opportunity to squelch anything minor that could come out of this!
Not to mention, it’s a sudden switch, like I said, from a week or two ago. Perhaps she gave McCain/campaign staff more info and he/they decided it was too damaging to risk. She had no problem with the investigation before and even shortly after being tapped for the VP spot, wasn’t until later that she suddenly said it was Obama’s campaigns fault she wouldn’t be cooperating. How is that possible? Yes there are democrats, but they are outnumbered by republicans, and like I said, if there truly is nothing to hide the Democrats will just look like idiots when they come up with nothing and boost Palin’s image and reputation a mere days before the election.
Stephanie @ 9:23,
Are there any McCain and /or Palin supporters in Berkley?
Ok. Since when do we judge who is Christian and who is not.. Fundamentally… who throws the stones here.. Come on.
Hisman.. You are getting a bit out of control and losing your ground with arguement with your complete and utter disrespect for humans. Please remember, that even though we feel one way or another, who are you to judge someones faith..
As for Palin, nobody really knows her, and personally, i jumped on the “GO PALIN” bandwagon also..However, the truths do need to be exposed, this is the United States.. running a country is a huge task.
As for Obama.. I hate the guys stance on abortion, but he is not an evil person.. His history with the community and specifically the black community is quite worthy…and we as Republicans that are pro-life should commend that part of him.
John Mcain still needs to convince me of his faith based decisions..he hasn’t in the past struck me as a man of Faith..but of a man of Politics. That being said.. proves, that politics is politics.. None of these people are perfect–none are have clean slates with God.. And those of you that think you are Holy enough to make those judgements come from a place that I don’t really get…
Hi Amy,
So you stand in judgment of those who you think stand in judgment?
It is the deeds I am most concerned with. I do not hate Obama. I wish him no harm. I disagree with him vehemently on MANY issues. He will not get my vote.
I am watching, reading and becoming an informed voter about McCain/Palin. They say they are Christians. I would like to believe that to be true. I look at their deeds as well. So far I like what I hear. I start with Prolife and go from there. :)
Perhaps Jill is busy asking Sarah Palin why she dumped the Alaska born alive bill in April out of political expediency. I’m sure Jill wants to tell the truth about Palin’s record. After all, her new venture is “born alive truth” Right? LOL
Posted by: LTL at September 17, 2008 9:48 AM
You are correct about Jill’s new site! It has Gianna Jessen’s own personal story of being born alive after a botched abortion. Please click on this link and donate to the cause if you can!
site:http://www.bornalivetruth.org/
Dan:
Don’t forget Dan that it only takes a few of the Republicans that Sarah went after to side with the puke Democrats. My, my, picking on girls is in vogue now as long as they are Christians.
If you’re pro-abortion and a Democrat or a Republican, you are NOT a follower of Christ. And this Dan, where did I say that Democrats hate Christ? This is what I said: “You Libs hate her because she’s a genuaine Christian and not just a Christian in name only like Barack Obama.” This means what it says Dan referring to the Libs that hate her not to the Libs that don’t hate her. Don’t twist my words.
It just so happens that the Democratic Party, as a whole, stands on the pro-death side. Of course there are pro-life Democrats that are Christians.
As Jesus says, “If you are not for me, you are against me”.
Pick your side Dan, no waffling, no lukewarmness, choose this day whom you will serve.
Carla,
Well said! God bless you!
. . . . . . . . . . . . .
Amy,
I have to agree with Hisman that there is a spiritual battle here that goes well beyond politics. I believe Obama wants power more than anything else. Anyone heartless enough to NOT be concerned about babies born alive is NOT the type of person I want as Commander in Chief of the United States of America.
Carla.
What?
No..not judging.. I just see alot of “you aren’t a Christian” talk… We aren’t to judge, I do not know everyones personal feelings and faith. Barack Obama has done some really great things–his history of service is good.. and we cannot deny that. Mcain has done good things, Biden has done good things, Palin has done good things..
We have to be honest with ourselves..and yes make the best judgements, I agree. I have also researched both..I have been working on my decisions…(not yet made).. But I am somewhat impressed with Obama’s stance on issues regarding the middle class and the poor– war–..
and I also hate abortion..
And if I vote to the left.. I can tell you this..I am a Christian, I serve the same God you serve..
Janet..
Yes.. agreed. I also think the last 8 yrs of the Bush/Cheney Lies, lies lies..and the Republican busts of horrible antics have been disheartening..
So yes..babies being aborted is sickening.. But sometimes I think that our current adminstration has done more harm than just this issue..
And as for power.. Goodness. They ALL WANT POWER…!!! CAN WE JUST SAY KARL ROVE… have mercy on his soul…
This is where we have to get smart.. weigh out what is important… I am still figuring it out and you are not convincing a somewhat poor single mother… (yes me..)
Amy,
“Barack Obama has done some really great things–his history of service is good.. and we cannot deny that. Mcain has done good things, Biden has done good things, Palin has done good things..”
“Great things”….”good..”…”good…”…”good”. It sounds like you have made up your mind. Please reconsider. Look at character, accomplishments, experience. Who talks the talk, and who walks the walk?
Amy:
Excuse me? You are very, very confused.
Have you ever heard the Bible verse, “by their fruits ye shall know them”?
Believers have every right to discern who are true followers of Christ and who are not. How then are we supposed to discrn who is telling us the truth and who is lying if we don’t compare what they say, teach and believe to Scripture?
Barack Obama claims tobe a Christian but he does not follow the teachings of Christianity. If he did he wold not be a pro-abort. Also, he would not attend Pastor Wright’s church. They teach a false gospel.
Those who support abortion, which is DEATH, do not follow Christ, who is the author of life. This is not judgement as you portray it, this is simply comparing what are scriptural qualifications for following Christ and what is not. Following your logic, how could Paul make some of the statements he made of those who had abandoned the faith? Read the epistles. He even condemned Peter for his error.
Does it every occur to you Janet that Mcain also has had an affair– left his first wife.. yes..It happens all the time.. My own mother, my sister.. But is that in Gods plan?
Has Obama’s family ever been an issue… I commend he and his wife.
So do you ignore Mcains history… you know the walk your walk..talk your talk bit?
so come on.. these people are perfect..
And has it ever been a worry to anyone that Palin may have some hard times ahead raising a Downs baby..and all the needs that her little boy has…along with helping her teen daughter raise her own baby.. I guess as a feminist..a working mother… I just wonder how in the world she is going to do that… For her own family… how is becoming VP going to be healthy… and as a mother who has dedication to my own job.. it is hard enough to attend to the needs of my children.. I don’t know..just wondering…and nobody wants to talk about it.
Our posts overlapped. I agree, weigh out what’s important.
But, remember McCain is not Bush. Don’t be fooled into thinking a vote for McCain is four more years of Bush. That is a tactic used in every election to garner votes! It works on people who don’t take time to really look at the issues. McCain will have a chance to change the Supreme Court into a PL court. Life has to be THE issue. Without life, nothing else matters.
http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf
Not sure bringing in Palin’s personal life and work life is appropriate…
Hi all. I know there has been discussion about denying communion in the Catholic Church to politicans who are pro-choice (even if they personally oppose abortion). Here’s a story about a priest denying communion to a person for supporting Obama. Apparently Cardinal Mahoney sent him a nice apology.
Thoughts?
http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/09/the-day-i-was-denied-communion.html
And has it ever been a worry to anyone that Palin may have some hard times ahead raising a Downs baby..and all the needs that her little boy has…along with helping her teen daughter raise her own baby.. I guess as a feminist..a working mother… I just wonder how in the world she is going to do that… For her own family… how is becoming VP going to be healthy… and as a mother who has dedication to my own job.. it is hard enough to attend to the needs of my children.. I don’t know..just wondering…and nobody wants to talk about it.
I’m confused – If you are a feminist, I’m not sure I understand the “women can’t do it” attitude?
If it was a man with a down’s syndrome child instead of a woman, would you make the same type arguments about him?
Sarah Palin’s husband is a stay at home dad. Isn’t that what feminists have been working so hard for all of these years – To make it acceptable for a woman to work while the husband stays at home? Why is it now the feminists who are condemning the Palin’s for their life choices? I’m not trying to be rude, but I think it’s kind of ironic.
Hi Amy,
I can hardly imagine being a poor single mother. My heart hurts after reading that. I am so glad that you are here.
You are extremely concerned with Palin and her little boy Trig. He has Down Syndrome. Aside from heart conditions and surgery and developmental delays…..aren’t they children FIRST and FOREMOST? Raising children is HARD!!(I have 4.)I am so, so thankful for her supportive husband Todd. He is the Daddy in the picture. She has been in politics for years. Her family obviously support her.
I have an overwhelming sense that SHE CAN HANDLE IT!
Nothing matters to me as much as prolife issues. Nothing.
I am glad that you are wrestling with things. It is very good indeed!! If you have a beef with someone here it is better to take them to task for what they write. Ask a question directly and seek the answers from them. Mos, if not all of us enjoy interacting respectfully and thoughtfully.
Hal,
Please read my link @ 11:23. It should be required reading for all Catholics before voting. It is available on the web in condensed form as well, and should be available from your parish.
The story you mentioned (concerning Kmiec) has come up before, but I don’t recall the details so can’t comment on it. Sorry.
Carla, I must have missed where she said she was a single mother. I was only responding to her last post.
I haven’t been able to catch up on all of the posts! :)
Obama supports infanticide — he is on record for it.
Christians and others who value human rights should not support anyone who supports infanticide.
’nuff said.
Hal,
Regarding my comment to you above. I had a brainfreeze – I know you aren’t Catholic so never mind on that part….
Have a good day!
Janet, thank you, that was interesting. I wonder if communion will be denied to those supporting the Bush/Cheney torture activities.
LB 11:59, exactly!
Hal @ 12:03,
You might find that answer in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Christians and others who value human rights should not support anyone who supports infanticide.
’nuff said.
Posted by: LB at September 17, 2008 11:59 AM
and torture, don’t forget torture….
“I know there has been discussion about denying communion in the Catholic Church to politicans who are pro-choice (even if they personally oppose abortion).”
Yet I haven’t heard of them denying communion to any Republican pro-choicers, or to those who support torture, the death penalty, or unjust wars..
Hal —
Interesting that you bring up torture as a man who paid to have your own children cut-up in their mother’s womb. You have been a cheerleader for in-womb torture for quite a while.
Are going on the record as both pro Infanticide and Torture?
I’ll be back to you later, my lunch hour is over and I’m not paid to comment, as you are.
HisMan-
My mistake, you said liberals hate Christ because they don’t like Sarah Plain and/or her stances
“You Libs hate her because she’s a genuaine Christian and not just a Christian in name only like Barack Obama. You don’t really hate her, you hate the Christ that she believes in, lives in, and trusts in.”
I changed libs to Democrats because those who hold liberal ideas side with the Democrats, when it is not necessarily true, that was my mistake. However, the premise still stands, and you cannot judge who stands with Christ, only He can do that, so unless God speaks to you and tell you whose what(NOT the Bible, as the Word has various translations that can be interpreted so many different ways, each claiming their own to be the only correct way, thus the various sects of Christianity), then I would advise you not to try and take on His job.
Hal-
I understand the sentiment behind the story, but I do think it’s inconsistent to say the least, and dumb at its worst.
PIP-
exactly.
So now this is about who’s a better Christian than the other? Who decides who’s better? And, who decided that Christians get to decide?
Let’s see, I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, so does that make me a Christian? Last night I bought some food out of the market and gave it to a begging man on the street…does that make me a Christian? Last weekend I physically assisted a young woman into a gurney as she waited for an abortion. Am I still a Christian if I was before you knew that?
Do you think you are a Christian, Danielle?
I would say that if you believe in Jesus Christ and have aligned your belief system to the teachings of the Bible, there would be fruit of that in your life. Does helping a woman kill her own child line up with that?
“Do you think you are a Christian, Danielle?”
Posted by: Carla at September 17, 2008 1:06 PM
That is the perfect question, Carla and makes my point: It matters if I believe I’m a Christian and if my own beliefs line up with my God.
This idea that ‘if you’re spiritual/religious view is ____, then you must vote for _____’ is what’s so distasteful.
Actually, Danielle, what matters is whether God thinks your beliefs line up with His. He’s the one with the final say about it all anyway.
“Barack Obama has done some really great things–his history of service is good … I also think the last 8 yrs of the Bush/Cheney Lies, lies lies..and the Republican busts of horrible antics have been disheartening..”
Amy, could you be more specific in regard to the great things that B. Obama has done? Besides his abortion stance, I am also uneasy about his record — there is not much of one and his ties to radical leftist “community organizers”,and Ayers and Rezko(sp?) are very disturbing.
Also, where is there evidence of lies by President Bush and V.P. Cheney? There is plenty of corruption amongst the Democrats — Charles Rangel is now in the news — I believe is has not paid taxes on some properties and isn’t he on a finance committee? — that is pretty disturbing.
…so unless God speaks to you and tell you whose what(NOT the Bible, as the Word has various translations that can be interpreted so many different ways, each claiming their own to be the only correct way, thus the various sects of Christianity), then I would advise you not to try and take on His job.
Posted by: Dan at September 17, 2008 12:38 PM
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The various reasons for differing Christian denominations often have little to do with Scriptural disagreements at all. Often people will separate over differing preferences in worship style, etc. The majority of beliefs which make Christianity what it is are AGREED UPON among denominations.
And by the way…what is it that happens when a Christian says, in public, that they “hear from God?” That’s right…they are ridiculed. If one of us ever came to you and said, “Hey, I think you are/are not a true Christian because God spoke to me audibly and told me so” you would question the sanity of that individual, no doubt.
An apple tree bears apples, or at least…that’s the generally accepted idea. If a tree is bearing rotten fruit, or none at all, then what can we assume about that tree?
I’m not speaking about anyone personally, here, I’m just pointing out that we CAN know, according to God’s Word, who is and who is not truly a Christian.
Kel-
yes, I would question sanity, try meds, adjust them, etc. If it doesnt go away, than maybe I’d be more accepting to the idea.
As for disagreements largely being over doctrine-
I’d have to agree. However, try to get one denomination to use another translation than the one they’ve historically used. More likely than not it isn’t happening.
And in reference to fruit-
I’d argue comments online alone, without any other information, is pretty poor basis on judinging an individual. You garner some knowledge yes, and in extreme cases it may be possible for some accurate guesses to be made, but all in all I don’t think its very accurate.
On top of that, I dont think you can wholly cast a group and say they’re going to hell. It isn’t the group that matters, it is each individual.
“Actually, Danielle, what matters is whether God thinks your beliefs line up with His. He’s the one with the final say about it all anyway.”
Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma) at September 17, 2008 1:50 PM
-I agree!
Janet @ 10:43 AM
Haha, I’m sure there are, as unbelievable as it sounds. They’re probably just not as vocal and few/far between. I know for sure there is a Cal Republicans Club on campus and they regularly are out there with the other clubs campaigning, debating, etc.
As for disagreements largely being over doctrine-
I’d have to agree. However, try to get one denomination to use another translation than the one they’ve historically used. More likely than not it isn’t happening.
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Dan, what you implied was not that the translations are the problem, but people’s interpretations of Scripture. Your comments indicated to me, at least, that you feel that the Bible is not a reliable source of information, and that only an audible voice would be sufficient for you.
I’d argue comments online alone, without any other information, is pretty poor basis on judinging an individual. You garner some knowledge yes, and in extreme cases it may be possible for some accurate guesses to be made, but all in all I don’t think its very accurate.
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Do you believe that if a person comes here and states a view, on a repeated basis, that the person holds that view to be true? The views/worldview of a person reveals much about that person. If the heart is not in line with God’s Word, then the mind certainly won’t be, either. I’m not suggesting that we can know ALL things about people from their posts, but you can get a lot of information about their views (and their level of respect for others), unless they’re repeatedly lying to obscure their own views.
On top of that, I dont think you can wholly cast a group and say they’re going to hell. It isn’t the group that matters, it is each individual.
Posted by: Dan at September 17, 2008 2:59 PM
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I agree with this. We are each responsible for our own beliefs and actions. And if we really believe God’s Word to be true, our actions should reinforce that.
Ugh, that post didn’t come out right at all–hoping you can decipher which comments are mine and which were Dan’s! :D
To judge someone means you take the place of God in determinig and procaliming person’s eternal future.
I can say that Barack Obama is not a Christian because God has defined what a Christian is not me and I know that what he says, does, and believes are not in line with God’s word. I simply read the book.
A Christian is not one who supports the murder of inncent life, just as one who supported and performed murder would not be a Christian. How do I know this because the Bible says that one who continues the practice of sin is not faces certain judgement. If you hold to a belief system that deviates from God’s word you are practicing sin.
Hebrews 10:26 “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.”
Now if I see someone committing a sin, i.e., the continued support of abortion and they keep on doing it deliberately this verse would apply directly to them. These are God’s word not mine. My simply stating what God’s word simply teaches is not judging people, it’s simply proclaiming God’s word to the lost in the hopes that they would wake up and be saved.
My hope is that Obama would wake up, forego his demonic view of abortion and repent. Of course God would forgive him. However, it seems he’s more interested in power than in his own soul and as such, dooms himself.
Danielle,
Heed Jesus’ words:
Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, you do unto me.
Pro Abortion Liberals would have **LOVED** to get a hold of young pregnant Mary and abort the unborn Christ child.
My friend recommended this site.. and wow.. Not sure I would ever recommend this blog to anyone.Not sure what church affiliation “Hisman” is..but kinda reminds me of the type that sits outside an abortion clinic with a rifle… So, cheers Hisman.. you are one of a kind… and a turn off to anyone who is even trying to see what this blog is about..
Obviously you have some type of warped perception of yourself.. Your views on abortion.. are one thing..but the judgement on others and interpretation of politics in general is totally ignorant.
I will be praying for you.
Have any of ya’ll wondered why the majority of minorities vote left? I will tell you this.. we don’t preach “Go have an abortion”…So maybe this blog should spend a day trying to reach within themselves to figure out the broad view of the world…
I so wish the only issue at large was abortion.. however, I could tell you this… I may write an academic paper on how the Republican world has encourged such acts…
Think.. people. think.
“Pro Abortion Liberals would have **LOVED** to get a hold of young pregnant Mary and abort the unborn Christ child.”
Posted by: LizFromNebraska at September 17, 2008 10:13 PM
Actually…no. The point of the pro-choice side is supporting the right to choose whether or not to be a mother. The likelihood (or assumption) is that a woman such as Mary would have chosen to have her baby and that choice would have the support of those who are ‘Pro abortion/liberal’ as you describe it. No one is forced into an abortion anymore than they are forced into giving birth. That goes against the whole philosophy of being pro-CHOICE.
Tinatia,
First of all, how many times have you seen pro-lifers stationed outside abortion clinics carrying rifles? My guess is: never.
Secondly, HisMan does not have a warped perception of himself, but does have the correct perception of warped politics and those who support it. (Liberals)(Democrats)(Obama)
Don’t waste your time and energy “praying” for HisMan…he’s doing just fine without your noble offer.
you answered my question correctly. You all don’t get it. There is alot of injustice to human kind that extends beyond abortion…And the Republican Party has used this one issue to sway folks like you to simply ignore the rest of the country.
Personally..I think Obama’s warped politics, besides abortion equal “What would Jesus Do”– hands down more than any of the Republicans.
So high fives to all ya’ll. I’m Praying for you ALL>
Danielle,
No one is forced into abortion anymore?? I you kidding me? I read about it all the time at Lifenews!
When you don’t know what to do or where to turn and you look into Planned Parenthood’s offer of “help” their ONLY CHOICE IS ABORTION!! They only offer one CHOICE! How is that choice??
Does Planned Parenthood help pay for baby clothes, rent, maternity wear, groceries, help you find a job when you decide to let your baby live?! No. But a Pregnancy Care Center DOES.
This is from the Catholic Church. It addresses this idea that you can vote a certain way and maintain that you are still a Christian.
1. Isn’t conscience the same as my own opinions and feelings? And doesn’t everyone have the right to his or her own conscience?
*
*
Conscience is NOT the same as your opinions or feelings. Conscience cannot be identical with your feelings because conscience is the activity of your intellect in judging the rightness or wrongness of your actions or omissions, past, present, or future, while your feelings come from another part of your soul and should be governed by your intellect and will. Conscience is not identical with your opinions because your intellect bases its judgment upon the natural moral law, which is inherent in your human nature and is identical with the Ten Commandments. Unlike the civil laws made by legislators, or the opinions that you hold, the natural moral law is not anything that you invent, but rather discover within yourself and is the governing norm of your conscience. In short, Conscience is the voice of truth within you, and your opinions need to be in harmony with that truth. As a Catholic, you have the benefit of the Church’s teaching authority or Magisterium endowed upon her by Christ. The Magisterium assists you and all people of good will in understanding the natural moral law as it relates to specific issues. As a Catholic, you have the obligation to be correctly informed and normed by the teaching of the Church’s Magisterium. As for your feelings, they need to be educated by virtue so as to be in harmony with conscience’s voice of truth. In this way, you will have a sound conscience, according to which we you will feel guilty when you are guilty, and feel morally upright when you are morally upright. We should strive to avoid the two opposite extremes of a lax conscience and a scrupulous conscience. Meeting the obligation of continually attending to this formation of conscience will increase the likelihood that, in the actual operation or activity of conscience, you will act with a certain conscience, which clearly perceives that a given concrete action is a good action that was rightly done or should be done. Being correctly informed and certain in the actual operation of conscience is the goal of the continuing formation of conscience. Otherwise put, you should strive to avoid being incorrectly informed and doubtful in the actual judgment of conscience about a particular action or omission. You should never act on a doubtful conscience.
For more:
http://tinyurl.com/3ksf3c
“No one is forced into abortion anymore?? I you kidding me? I read about it all the time at Lifenews! When you don’t know what to do or where to turn and you look into Planned Parenthood’s offer of “help” their ONLY CHOICE IS ABORTION!! They only offer one CHOICE! How is that choice?? Does Planned Parenthood help pay for baby clothes, rent, maternity wear, groceries, help you find a job when you decide to let your baby live?! No. But a Pregnancy Care Center DOES.”
Posted by: Carla at September 18, 2008 6:52 AM
Carla, don’t twist this around. Consider the source of your information, Lifenews – a pro-life site. Of course you’re going to get a negative portrayal of abortion, that’s the point! And yes, I agree that some pro-choice resources are equally as hysterical on the other side.
Look, I know PP and their ilk are the Big Bad Wolf here, so this defense likely falls on deaf ears, but I’m here to have a conversation that is as fair and objective as possible.
Of course there are women/girls who are coerced or guilted by the people in their lives into BOTH having and not having babies. I was (and I think you know this) referring to whether or not an organization, such as PP, forces women into having abortions. They don’t. Believe it or not, abortions are only one part of the services they provide.
The purpose of the agency is to provide medicine, counsel and treatment for STDs, pelvic exams, birth control, sex ed, and unwanted pregnancies. No, PP is not an adoption agency but those who decide to go thru with a pregnancy are given information on where to go for more assistance. Period.
There’s no moral agenda for those who counsel women at the PP that I have been to – if you want to have a baby, have a baby. If you don’t, don’t. That might seem cavalier to you, but the point is to offer care, not judgement or persuasion.
If there is even a suggestion of hesitation, that woman is asked to consider her decision again. And if you have someone who’s wavering, no one’s pushing her onto the table. The social workers/nurses on staff absolutely need to keep track of the path that brought the girl/woman there. Trust me, no one wants a hysterical patient in the recovery room.
Posted by: mk (aka mullet troll) at September 18, 2008 8:05 AM
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LOL-I saw that! :D
And tinatia, please DO pray for us, if you mean that sincerely and not just in a derogatory “OMG, I’m sooo better than all of you” way. ;)
If it is acceptable to climb over the backs of our dead children to get out of poverty…I think I’d rather stay in poverty.
Tinatia @ 10:51,
Have any of ya’ll wondered why the majority of minorities vote left? I will tell you this.. we don’t preach “Go have an abortion”…So maybe this blog should spend a day trying to reach within themselves to figure out the broad view of the world…
I so wish the only issue at large was abortion.. however, I could tell you this… I may write an academic paper on how the Republican world has encourged such acts…
Think.. people. think.
. . . . .
The majority of bloggers at Jill’s are very broad minded when it comes to social issues. If you stick around you’ll see.
PP doesn’t offer the alternatives – I believe they have referred less than a few thousand to adoption (annual report). They are all about “Getting rid of IT” and then putting the girl right back on the pill.
True CHOICES include REAL information on Fetal Development and not the lies that PP tells young women who have NO clue what their baby’s development really is like, unless they are lucky enough to get real information. And that information does NOT come from PP. It comes from pregnancy care centers, who don’t say “its just a blood clot” or “its just tissue” or “its not a baby yet”.
And the information pregnancy care centers give about a baby’s development is information we have learned from SCIENCE. Amazing isn’t it? 3D and 4D ultrasounds show the truth. And PP denies that truth.
We need to slowly eliminate abortion by eliminating the reaons women HAVE abortions — especially the college aged women who need help.
I wish they would pass the Elizabeth Cady Stanton Pregnancy Act, which would provide assistance to those college aged women so they can go to school and continue pregnancies.
Danielle,
We will have to agree to disagree. Abortion is big business. Those that work in the Biz are there to sell abortion. Google Carol Everett…watch her story on Faces of Abortion.
What kind of prenatal care does PP offer to a woman who chooses to keep her baby? They will holler, “NEXT” and the human cattle drive to the killing fields continues…..
Also, I have many friends who regret their abortions who WERE pushed down onto the table and HELD down by others. Crying, screaming and wailing for the abortionist to STOP. He did not. Any thoughts on that?? Oh, we can rationalize those away in the name of CHOICE I suppose.
Sorry. Can’t be fair and objective to the killing of the innocents. To the tune of 4,000 a day.
Just read on LifeNews, that the abortion rate has been falling across the nation except at Planned Parenthood….hhhmmmmmm….but I guess I should consider my source.
I am glad that PP dabbles in the selling of condoms and Prom Party packs and porn on the internet. It does make it Seem like they give a rip doesn’t it??
tinatia wrote:
Personally..I think Obama’s warped politics, besides abortion equal “What would Jesus Do”– hands down more than any of the Republicans.
Except for wanting to kill all of the Jews, Gyspies, homosexuals, and other “undesirable” people, the Nazis were really swell folks….
Look, my point is that some injustice is too big to be swallowed. Even if Obama’s social programs were as effective as he claimed, they still wouldn’t hold a candle to the deliberate slaughter of innocent children. One monstrous evil will outweigh a whole lot of (theoretical) good.
I echo Kel’s sentiment: If our only choices are between poverty and killing our children, I’ll pick poverty.
“Danielle, We will have to agree to disagree.”
Posted by: Carla at September 18, 2008 11:43 AM
Could’ve ended the whole post right there.
:)
Could’ve. Didn’t.
“PP doesn’t offer the alternatives – I believe they have referred less than a few thousand to adoption (annual report). They are all about “Getting rid of IT” and then putting the girl right back on the pill.”
-Someone is referred to adoption resources if they ask for it. If a few thousand referrals were given = a few thousand women asked for it. Makes sense, given that MOST of the people who are at PP aren’t there to talk about adoption.
“True CHOICES include REAL information on Fetal Development and not the lies that PP tells young women who have NO clue what their baby’s development really is like, unless they are lucky enough to get real information. And that information does NOT come from PP. It comes from pregnancy care centers, who don’t say “its just a blood clot” or “its just tissue” or “its not a baby yet”.”
-I’ve said this on another post but I’ll say it again: Women who choose an abortion KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. They are not all ignorant, disillusioned victims. You may or may not be aware that many of these women are already mothers of young children (which was the case the last time I volunteered at the clinic). You get a sonogram before the procedure, you know. She KNOWS what’s growing inside her. In fact, she may already consider it a baby already. BUT SHE DOES IT ANYWAY, for a myriad of social, personal, spiritual, practical and philosophical reasons none of us will ever truly understand because we are not her. It is possible to believe this is a life, a baby, a person…and still choose an abortion. A 3D picture may change minds, or may not. For some women, seeing a fetus doesn’t change the decision. The idea of trying to stop women by saying, ‘can’t you see this is a baby?’ isn’t necessarily persuasive. I also find it quite condescending, as if I’m too guilible to make my own choices.
“We need to slowly eliminate abortion by eliminating the reaons women HAVE abortions — especially the college aged women who need help.”
-I agree with a portion of your comment: It would be ideal to eliminate the NEED for abortion. Do I think this is possible? No. Not unless you eliminate every reason a woman decided to get one.
“I wish they would pass the Elizabeth Cady Stanton Pregnancy Act, which would provide assistance to those college aged women so they can go to school and continue pregnancies.”
-The bill as you described sounds great. If it’s as B/W as you wrote and is not attached to further anti-choice or moral regulation, I would support that as well. I think we agree that single mothers do NOT have enough economic and educational support.
Danielle, well said.
Danielle, many women who chose abortion are buying the lies that PP tells them. Some don’t realize that the baby’s heart beat starts beating at 21 days after conception. There are detectable brain waves at 40 days after conception. I’d say few women truly know what they are doing. They buy what PP tells them “its as easy as having your tonsils out”.
What about the fact that PP has failed to report, as they are required by LAW, sexual abuse? There have been a few cases where they did not report the abuse of a young girl to the police, and after the deed was done (the abortion), handed the girl back over to the stepfather or other abuser, and sometimes the abuse continued for a year or more.
PP is in the business of “getting rid of IT” they don’t care one bit about the women they claim to be helping. That’s why they don’t like “Women’s right to Know” laws and Parental Notification laws.
Liz,
What about the fact that PP has failed to report, as they are required by LAW, sexual abuse? There have been a few cases where they did not report the abuse of a young girl to the police, and after the deed was done (the abortion), handed the girl back over to the stepfather or other abuser, and sometimes the abuse continued for a year or more.
It’s silly to think a parent is going to have any influence over a minor’s decision to abort. And what about all those women who are abused by a parent? There must be thousands. You are so dense! (sarcasm alert)
Oops….
It should say: “what about all those girls who are abused by a parent?”
and then what about girls who are injured during abortions and can’t legally sign forms for emergency surgery because they are 13 years old?
And sometimes, its the parent forcing the young girl to abort because they don’t want the “mistake” to get out in public. :(
*sigh*
We’re just going to go round and round, aren’t we?
I predicted that any objective defense I provided for PP would go over like a lead balloon, and I was right.
Even if I mentioned the anon blog making press right now of a young lady ‘live blogging’ her very honest and fair abortion experience and admitting she knew this was life and she wanted to anyway…it wouldn’t make a bit of difference.
So, never mind.
Danielle,
It’s a prolife blog, babe. Did you think you would come here to change some prolifers minds?
I had an abortion 18 years ago. I will regret it until the day I die. I understand perfectly what PP is all about.
You seem to be happy that a girl is live blogging her abortion. Good times. Might I suggest you comment there to cheer her on?
“Danielle,
It’s a prolife blog, babe. Did you think you would come here to change some prolifers minds?”
Posted by: Carla at September 18, 2008 9:03 PM
-No, never. I just thought we could have a discussion and maybe MAYBE get some understanding on each other’s positions, without the agenda of converting someone. Without hysteria, name calling, bashing.
Sorry for your troubles, Carla.
I’m done.
I did not call you names, I did not bash you and I am not hysterical.
I love to discuss on this blog. You are correct though. Extolling the wonderment of Planned Parenthood and their child killing on this blog goes over like a lead balloon.
Danielle,
If I have been snarky with you in any way I do apologize. It is not my intent. I do come from an experience of abortion though and so I have a lot to say on that. Sorry if I overwhelmed you. A passion of mine is to speak the truth about my abortion experience. I owe at least that much to the daughter I killed.
Peace.
Danielle: “Even if I mentioned the anon blog making press right now of a young lady ‘live blogging’ her very honest and fair abortion experience and admitting she knew this was life and she wanted to anyway…it wouldn’t make a bit of difference.”
Well it would in fact enrage me. Whats her ultimate motivation for the abortion? That she doesnt want to transfer blood to the preborn? Its people like this that make me want to support punishing the mother as well as the doctor. People are sick.
” Whats her ultimate motivation for the abortion? That she doesnt want to transfer blood to the preborn? Its people like this that make me want to support punishing the mother as well as the doctor. People are sick.”
We are raising a generation of narcissicists.
Eileen, I hear how you feel, but what, really, does her motivation matter to you? I don’t think she’d have many reasons that you’d approve of, so again it comes down to what you want versus what she wants.
I don’t want people being able to tell you to end a pregnancy against your will, for example, nor do I want people being able to tell her to continue one against her will.