Palin vs. Obama – raising vs. killing
Posted at Free Republic (click to enlarge):
[HT: friend Leslie]
Sep.01, 2008 9:35 am |
Obama, Political anti-life bias |
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Obama is power hungry. If a Democrat aspires to hold national office, being pro-choice is not an option, it is a requirement. That is why he was willing to allow extreme left wing pro-aborts to influence his position on the Born Alive Act. But this poor judgment on his part is only one of many. His relationships with the bombers William Ayers and wife, his cozy real estate deal with convicted felon Rezko, his two decades long relationship with his spiritual mentor, the racist and bombastic Jeremiah Wright, and lastly his choice of political gadfly Joe Biden as his running mate all show he his uniquely unqualified to hold the office of the presidency.
By the way: Happy Labor Day!
Congratulations Jerry, you have spouted 10 of the 12 Sean Hannity/Karl Rove talking points in 20 seconds and a Faux News tee shirt is in the mail. You also get your brain reprogrammed with a new set of cliches. Just tune in to Faux.
Wow, that is such a clever banner! Terrible but true.
Jerry,
You may owe the ‘extreme left wing pro-aborts’ a limited apology. Seems like it was o’bama who influenced them.
I believe he is exploiting them and the democrat party and their followers to achieve his goals.
I was driving when bo addressed the d&c convention the other evening. I changed the station as soon as I heard his voice.
bo is a deceiver and a narcecist. He is unreliable and unpredictable. He deceives even himself.
Give little value to what he says, but pay carefull attention to what he does or has done.
Jesus said it is the sick who need the Physician. Pray for bo’s deliverance.
LTL,
Hah…coming from you. Over half of your posts lack reason and when you ever get called on even on aspect of your reasoning, you just disappear. Wait a minute…are you one of Obama’s paid bloggers?!?!
Hey LTL,
When your mom was pregnant with you what kind of embryo/fetus was in her uterus?
Hey LTL,
Not a trick question. What species of embryo/fetus was in your mother’s uterus?
Was it bovine? Was it feline? Was it canine?
LTL
You can use one of your lifelines if you wish?
Want to call a friend, go for 50/50, or the poll the audience?
LTL,
We will bend the rules for you. You can ask your mom or you can ask a 3rd grader.
That’s alright LTL. We will make this an open book test. Take your time. Don’t want to make a mistake. Seems like your mom got it right.
There is more at stake here than your free set of star trek steak knives.
Sarah Palin is splendid contrast to Barack Obama.
When BHO answers tough questions with a lot of rambling ummm’s and uhh’s and buts it is like having to listen to him debate it in his head.
With Sarah she just states her answer.
BHO believes women are the authors of their childrens lives. Sarah is a real Christian who believes God is the author life.
BHO has a concept of making us energy indendent in ten years. Sarah has a real plan we can implement that will not only lead us towards energy independence, but also help our economy.
Go Sarah Go!
kbhvac,
That was soooo good! Makes my day! Thanks!
Secular humanists say that life on Earth began as one cell, though they don’t say where they cell came from, nor do they say how a living cell came from non-living matter.
And, yet, they deny that life in the womb begins with one cell.
You can always get’em on inconsistency.
LTL
Do not waste your time asking bo. The answer to that question is above his pay grade.
Ask a 3rd grader.
Those who say that they are homosexual say that they were created homosexual.
Soooo, when was THAT? WHEN were they created homosexual? Conception?
Jefferson said that the Right to life begins when we are created. Read: conception; upon pregnancy of the mother. He said that this is a self-evident truth.
It’s not as self-evident to anti-life extremists who say that the Right to life begins at birth.
So, which is it?
Hey LTL,
When your mom was pregnant with you…
Posted by: kbhvac at September 1, 2008 10:54 AM
—————————————–
She needs to tell us at what point her mother became pregnant. At conception, or at birth?
Mr. Incredible
Thanks for the encouragement.
I want to challenge people to think without being too unkind.
I read a book entitled ‘While Six Million Died’.
It was about the holocaust. One line I will never forget. A foreign journalist was writing about German society while Hitler and the Nazi’s were still consolidating their power. “Even the casual observer will have admit that reason is absent from the land.”
You cannot have a meaningful dialog with some one who is irrational.
LTL,
I am just a mechanic. I barely graduated from high school. I have never earned more that 50k a year. I am not a rocket scientist. You can hang with me intellectually.
==Mr. Incredible
Thanks for the encouragement.==
I like your spunk. I like those who get right out there in their faces with the relevant questions and points.
They never answer me either, and that’s cuz they can’t answer us.
==I want to challenge people to think without being too unkind.==
Written communication is even more cold than telephone. It’s difficult, if you wanna be brief and compressed about your thoughts, not to be taken as cold and unkind.
==You cannot have a meaningful dialog with some one who is irrational.==
This is why they are called, by Dr. Limbaugh, “Drive-by’s,” and why I call them, “Hit’n’run” posters. They shoot and go hide. They won’t answer insightful, developing qauestions people like you and me raise. I get this everywhere I go. There’s only one reason: They didn’t expect the questions and, so, their handlers didn’t prepared them for them.
LTL,
Please aks yo’ mama WHEN she became pregnant wit’ you. At conception? At birth? When the doctor told her? What?
LTL,
If I stick the unborn child with a pin, does the woman flinch, or the child?
LTL,
Do you think bo knows what the definiton of the word ‘is’ …..is? Or is that question above his pay grade as well?
LTL,
Whose blood is programmed in chromosomes of the unborn child to form WWWAAAYYY early stages of pregnancy, the baby’s, or the mother’s?
Is it a member of the pregnant woman that grows inside her, or another individual? Is there one person, or two?
We need to know these things, if we are to apply the Right to life to everybody who deserves to be protected.
I just heard on the news that Sarah Palin’s 17 year old daughter is five months pregnant. Barack and Michelle would see this child as a “burden” on their daughter. Contrast that with Sarah and Alaska’s First Dude who will help and support her daughter through the pregnancy. Let’s say a prayer for the health and welfare of Sarah’s daughter and her first grandchild.
Our Father who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.
God bless this child and and give strength to this childs father. St. Joseph, through your prayers assist this young father and guide him that he may watch over this gift from you with steadfast spirit. This we ask through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Amen.
LTL,
Do you think bo knows what the definiton of the word ‘is’ …..is? Or is that question above his pay grade as well?
Posted by: kbhvac at September 1, 2008 11:49 AM
————————————-
“Is it, or ain’t it?” THAT is the question.
These questions and issues oughta be easy for those, like LTL, who think that they are sooooo intelligent and empirical and logical and scientific. I wonder why their intelligence and empiricism and logic and Science have shut down all of a sudden.
Gosh, I sure brought out the inbred knuckle-draggers on Labor Day. Thanks for the insight into your intellect.
Truthseeker 11:12, have you seen the photo of Sarah Palin in a patriotic bikini holding a gun?
Have you heard Palin’s 17 year old daughter is pregnant out of wedlock? This could be the biggest day of your life! Go Sarah go!
I’m just crushed — CRUSHED, I tell you! — that LTL is holding back.
LTL, you can do better than that, no? You can answer out questions, no?
When was you mother pregnant with you? At conception? At birth? When the doctor told her?
==Have you heard Palin’s 17 year old daughter is pregnant out of wedlock?==
Libs are spreading a lotta rumors cuz they are scared. All of a sudden, “The One” ain’t a shoe in any more.
LTL: “Have you heard Palin’s 17 year old daughter is pregnant out of wedlock? This could be the biggest day of your life! Go Sarah go!”
Anyone else find this totally not important?
Actually I take it back…is she having an abortion? Shes getting married right? Its nice to see that when someone makes a mistake that they are strong enough to not resort to the “easy way out.”
I wonder how many abortions Mrs Obama has had.
==Have you heard Palin’s 17 year old daughter is pregnant out of wedlock?==
Are you reporting a news fact, or reporting what a Lib blog says?
Mr. Incredible, take a look at the MSM. The McCain camp has confirmed the pregnancy “rumor”.
Well, then, you can provide us a link. Be my guest. Should be easy.
So, LTL, when was your mother pregnant with you? Conception? Birth? Doctor’s diagnosis?
You should be eager to post a link, LTL. And, yet, you don’t. You make only accusations and, then, run and hide.
Aks yo’ mama how to post a link to the “story” you say is there, LTL.
LTL
Do you know how to tongue tie a politician?
Ask her/him to define ‘rich’ and ‘fair share’.
How do you think they pracice all that hemmim and hawwin.
Come on LTL you can think and read and write.
Have you heard Palin’s 17 year old daughter is pregnant out of wedlock?
The campaign announced it…it’s for real. Another fine result of abstinence-only sex education!
I wonder how many abortions Mrs Obama has had.
Posted by: Oliver at September 1, 2008 12:05 PM
——————————————–
Hmmmmm, yes, I wonder.
Mr incredible,
It is confirmed. Check out FoxNews/Cnn. However, Palin’s statement about the situation makes me even more pro-Palin. Its worth a read!
Obama is power hungry.
And McCain, who has campaigned for the presidency every four years for as long as I can remember, growing more and more desperate, and shifting his positions on issues further and further to the right each time, is not?
Mr incredible,
It is confirmed. Check out FoxNews/Cnn. However, Palin’s statement about the situation makes me even more pro-Palin. Its worth a read!
Posted by: Oliver at September 1, 2008 12:15 PM
—————————————–
Will do. But how ’bout a link.
The campaign announced it…it’s for real. Another fine result of abstinence-only sex education!
Palin is pro-BC Ray. Besides how many unwanted pregnancies result from BC every day? I am one of them actually.
Posted by: LTL at September 1, 2008 11:57 AM
LTL, you are sounding faceitious. People of your character can’t see beyond the liberal self-serving tear-my-baby–from-my-womb-for-me liberally biased easy way out. Unlike you, people of character take responsibility and commit to raising their children, even the ones that are not planned for. That is why you feel no genuine love and care for this young girl and her baby, that is why it does not trouble you to speak facetiously about the situation because you don’t understand the character of people like this who commit to raising an unplanned child together. What did you expect them to do? Probably something really warped like abort the baby and get married first. BTW – btw – I also heard they are planning on getting married.
May God bless their union in His Holy name.
LTL
If am the inbred knuckle-dragger that you say I am you ought to be able to mop up the floor with me.
I really flunked high school. They just gave me a sort of mercy pass so they would not feel so guilty for my failure.
Can’t we employ a little if a=b and b=c, then a=c logic here.
Ok, no prob. She made a mistake, and she won’t make another by aborting the pregnancy; she’;; do the right and correct thing by marrying the father.
We surpised, though, that LTL wasn’t that eager to post a link to the story. You’d think that she would be all over this place allup in here with links and criticisms and rants and raves. But no.
Are you ready, though, for the anti-life extremists to try to make this into a shotgun wedding and that the Palins are imposing their Will on their daughter?
Alleged “POWER HUNGRY” vs JUDGMENT
Just yesterday, Monegan gave an interview to the Washington Post in which he said that not only Palin’s aides, but Palin’s husband and Palin herself had repeatedly raised the Wooten issue with him and pressured him to fire him. And now he says he has emails that Palin sent him about the matter.
SG: Prepare of the qualifie(R)z folks … Now back to Mc’Cane’ JUDGMENT …
In an interesting sidelight, that may end up telling us a lot, Monegan says no one from the McCain campaign ever contacted him in the vetting process.
SG … O-U-C-H!
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/211769.php
Snerd
LTL
If am the inbred knuckle-dragger that you say I am you ought to be able to mop up the floor with me.
I really flunked high school. They just gave me a sort of mercy pass so they would not feel so guilty for my failure.
Can’t we employ a little if a=b and b=c, then a=c logic here.
—————————————-
You’re aksing somebody whose mind cannot make a straight line from a to b.
Posted by: kbhvac at September 1, 2008 12:23 PM
CORREX
LTL
If am the inbred knuckle-dragger that you say I am you ought to be able to mop up the floor with me.
I really flunked high school. They just gave me a sort of mercy pass so they would not feel so guilty for my failure.
Can’t we employ a little if a=b and b=c, then a=c logic here.
Posted by: kbhvac at September 1, 2008 12:23 PM
—————————————-
You’re aksing somebody whose mind cannot make a straight line from a to b.
Once again Snerd…Wooten tasered his 10 year old stepson…among other things. He deserved to be fired. Maybe Palin just happened to know the he in particular was corrupt. Or maybe this guy is lieing.
t(R)oof: “LTL, you are sounding faceitious. “
SG: Indeed … Is life really that simplistic and “homo-genius” for you there t(R)oof …?
Snerd
All this opportuity and LTL ignores the questions that she could use to mop the floor with kbhvac and me. Tsk, tsk.
C’mon, LTL, when was yo’ mama pregnant with you? Conception? Birth? Doctor’s say-so? Give us some wisdom.
LTL, where’s all this intelligence and empiricism and logic and tghe scientific you people claim to put into motion?
Those who claim to be homosexual say that they are created homosexual — that is, at conception. That’s what they say, anywaysl but, at least, that coincides with the idea that pregnancy happens at conception, not at birth and not at the time the doctor waves the flag.
Then, you got peole like you who say that the Right to life begins at birth, thereby disagreeing with Jefferson.
Which is it?
Once again Snerd…Wooten tasered his 10 year old stepson…among other things. He deserved to be fired. Maybe Palin just happened to know the he in particular was corrupt. Or maybe this guy is lieing.
Posted by: Oliver at September 1, 2008 12:27 PM
Firing this gy was a good first step. I also hope they take away his right to own Taser and/or any other type of firearm. The guy tasered his 10 year old stepson. He should not be allowed to have possion of weapons of any kind. He already had training on the use of tasers and firearms caus ehe was a cop. He certainly does not show the reasonable judgement required of state troopers who are placed in a position where they make decisions about the appropriate use of weapons on the public.
Back to the JUDGMENT ‘a f(R)ont’
“… On Saturday, a Democrat tasked with opposition research contacted the Huffington Post with this piece of information: as of this weekend, the McCain campaign had not gone through old newspaper articles from the Valley Frontiersman, Palin’s hometown newspaper.
How does he know? The paper’s (massive) archives are not online. And when he went to research past content, he was told he was the first to inquire.
“No one else had requested access before,” said the source. “It’s unbelievable. We were the only people to do that, which means the McCain camp didn’t” …”
SG: UNVETTED!!!
Now, That’s not JUDGMENT you can believe in …. heh heh heh heh …
Snerd
However, truthseeker, today is a day when ALL decisions are questioned, just like any NBA game involving San Antonio which questions every whistle. The whistle is a signal to complain, to start an argument.
Everything takes a second+ guess.
Of course, the purpose of Libs is to bog the system down in endless debate. This is what they do here.
Her courage, her character, her reason, her common-sense, her beauty and her honesty are sending tremors through status quo business as usual politics in Washington. Talk about change! I have never seen the liberals so worried about a politician as they are of what Sarah will bring to Washington. Go Sarah Go!
Oliver’s Twist: “Once again Snerd…Wooten tasered his 10 year old stepson…among other things. He deserved to be fired. Maybe Palin just happened to know the he in particular was corrupt. Or maybe this guy is lieing.”
SG: Maybe Wooten deserved it maybe he didn’t …
Sheesh Oliver! You (R) off into the (R)eductive hypothetical pretty damn quick …. i.e. If bad was done by a (R), maybe it was for a good reason, maybe … and maybe that makes it good, maybe …
However, when hypothesizing about the implicit possibilities in the empirical … “Maybe” it helps if you (R) not hypothesizing about the non-existent … or “Maybe” not …
BUT …. Wooten wasn’t fired!
Snerd
(S) (N) (E) (R) (D) heh..heh..heh..hehhehhehhehe
Snork, you should give up on your childish parentheses, your thoughs alone are hard enough to decipher without your hidden meanings. lol
The Palin family had a feud with Wooten prior to her becoming governor. They put together a list of 14 accusations which they took to the state police to investigate — a list that ranged from the quite serious to the truly absurd. The state police did an investigation, decided that 5 of the charges had some merit and suspended Wooten for ten days — a suspension later reduced to five days. The Palin’s weren’t satisfied but there wasn’t much they could do.
When Palin became governor they went for another bite at the apple. Palin, her husband and several members of her staff began pressuring Public Safety Commissioner, Walt Monegam — a respected former Chief of the Anchorage police department — to can Wooten. Monegam resisted, arguing that the official process regarding Wooten was closed. And there was nothing more that could be done. In fact, during one of the conversations in which Palin’s husband Todd was putting on the squeeze, Monegam told Todd Palin, “You can’t head hunt like this. What you need to do is back off, because if the trooper does make a mistake, and it is a terminable offense, it can look like political interference.”
Eventually, Palin got fed up and fired Monegam from his job. (Palin claims, not credibly, that she fired Monegam over general differences in law enforcement priorities.) This is an important point. Wooten never got fired
It is interesting watching the left snipe at Gov. Palin. She is more like the average woman than anyone else I’ve seen in politics. If they are bent on torpedoing her, they will definitely alienate many women voters. Just think, how many more women become involved in politics via local politics than Yale Law School and also how many more women love motherhood than think it is a burden.
Go ahead left, keep on sniping — you will get exactly the results you don’t want.
==She [Palin] is more like the average woman than anyone else I’ve seen in politics.==
And, after all, doesn’t everybody want a non-politician in Washington? Don’t we need people more like the average Joe?
== If they are bent on torpedoing her, they will definitely alienate many women voters. Just think, how many more women become involved in politics via local politics than Yale Law School and also how many more women love motherhood than think it is a burden.==
I say that they should keep it up and shoot themselves in the foot.
Quick correction … that’s Monegan, not Monegam
We regret any inconvenience this error may have caused
Snerd
Renegade cop with no common sense taser’s a 10 year old for fun and he still has a badge. What is wrong with that picture?
I say that they should keep it up and shoot themselves in the foot.
Posted by: Mr. Incredible at September 1, 2008 1:11 PM
That, Mr. Incredible, is why this is so much fun.
How many times will the liberal slime machine have to say Ooops and open wide to swallow their own crap?
And, by da way, Obamarama tells people like LTL to back off:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-to-media.html
And, by da way, Obamarama tells people like LTL to back off:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-to-media.html
I say that they should keep it up and shoot themselves in the foot.
Posted by: Mr. Incredible at September 1, 2008 1:11 PM
—————————————
That, Mr. Incredible, is why this is so much fun.
How many times will the liberal slime machine have to say Ooops and open wide to swallow their own crap?
Posted by: truthseeker at September 1, 2008 1:59 PM
—————————————-
You can always get’em with their own inconsistencies.
It’s just that people like LTL are so dishonest.
Mr. Incredible at 2:11,
I know what you mean. Yesterday LTL was saying that all pro-life people hate gays and pointing to Sarah as an example. At that point I asked LTL if her moniker stands for “Lives to Lie” and blasted LTL with the following response:
“The fact that you try to equate pro-life with hate is absurd. Your bigotry and prejudice show in your attempt to insinuate that pro-life = gay hate. You can try and twist things with your mind but the buck stopped at Sarah’s desk as governor and chose compassion with a stroke of her pen, even though she has idealogical differences. If she had the hate that you supppose she did then why did she veto the bill? Sarah is that exceptional politician that rises above political agenda. Why? Because she believes in compassion for all, including children in the womb.”
Needless to say it did not even phase LTL and I understand how it grows tiring fighting absurdities and smears from cyber trash.
Truthdude,
They are just hit’n’run. They want us to answer their questions, address their issues, but they run and hide when we paint them into a corner. Then, minutes, hours, or days later, they pick up where they left off, as though we posted nothing at all. Is THAT the intelligence and logic and empiricism and the scientific we’ve been hearin’ so much about from them?
Mr Inc,
There is obviously no logic or empiricism necessary unless it suits their agenda. Sometimes, when they lose all credibility they come back under a different moniker and start again. What’s a blogger to do? That’s why it has been so much fun lately watching them try their usual attacks on Sarah and they end up eating their own crap. lol
Even there smears and slander are bouncing right back upon them and what they stand for.
Mr Inc.,
You must have been right about Snerd being a paid Obama blogger. When you showed him that press release from the boss that bthreatened to fire any paid by his campaign who attacked Sarah on that issue all the sudden Snerk disappeared.
That wasn’t me, truthdude.
Sure it was Mr. Inc.
In fact it was a double-post at 2:01 and then again at 2:02. Or was somebody else posting under your name? I know some wierd stufff happened with the site between 2 and 3 this afternoon.
t(R)oof: “Renegade cop with no common sense taser’s a 10 year old for fun and he still has a badge. What is wrong with that picture?”
SG: Welll …
1. We don’t know if your picture is accurate, so at this point it is just a ca(R)toon
2. Whatever the trooper did, there are legal ways to handle it. Acting illegally in response still is illegal.
3. It appears that PTA Sarah did not follow the Law, but broke it (Monegan claims to have emails and PTA Sarah’s story has already had to shift based on evidence coming forward.
4. Being unable to draw the line between personal and professional, typically is evidence of poor JUDGMENT … Oooops, there’s that problem again
5. Could you explain to me how firing Wooten would protect the 10 yr old boy from further alleged victimization? Or (R) we just talkin’ vendetta here?
6. Monegan, who evidence now shows was pressured by PTA Sally’s office, was the guy fired for not firing Wooten himself … This would be an example of Abuse of Power. It furthers questions PTA Sally’s JUDGMENT and fitness for higher office.
Snerd
Oh, I think I get you now Mr.Inc.,
It must have been somebody else that called Snork out as a paid Obama blogger, then when you showed him his “orders” he had no choice but to scram or lose his job… this is too much fun.
Snerd,
What is your take on Sarah Palin’s daughter being pregnant?
Great banner!!
Snerk at 3:35,
1)What the hell is inaccurate about the picture of a state-trooper, while off duty, intentionally using his taser on a ten year old boy?
2) Trooper must lose badge cause of said tasing, and yes, legally would be best, but if that doesn’t work this cop is gonna hurt some people or some people are gonna hurt him. Socieity has a special interest in protice citizens from renegade cops.
3) shift?
4) When you are involved in public service, especially law enforcement, aberrant personal actions at home can and should be able to disqualify a person from positions of power of other citizens.
5) Firing Wooten, and revoking his permit to hold weapons, would protect all the citizens of Alaska from an idiot.
6) Sounds like Monegan had the responsibility of reigning this idiot trooper in and he couldn’t.
Snerd,
Are you a paid Obama blogger? Prove that you aren’t. What is your take on Sarah Palin’s daughter being pregnant? Or is that topic banninated by your new marching orders?
I’d like LTL to tell us WHEN Bristol became pregnant, at conception, or at birth, or when the doctor flagged her down.
Again you got me wonderin’ …. How many ‘watt’ did your (R)eply take?
Ahhh … You (R) the Law and Order folks, (R)ight t(r)oof …!?
Like you (R) opposed to the Abuse of Power ‘volks’ … You know Democracy and all that ‘stuff’
Snerd
Somebody check Snerd’s place for pods.
Snerd,
I was wrong…I could have sworn that Wooten was fired for those reasons. It turns out that he was only suspended. Palin claimed from the beginning that she had no involvement with the pressure, and that is still consistent with her claim. You complain that I say “maybe,” when you make up accusations that have no basis. Sure what you say “could” be the case, but the alternative is just as likely. Neither have any direct evidence so far.
When you read information in order to draw an inference, like you did with McCain’s stance on the war in Iraq, you have to be very careful not to infer a purpose. Let me give you an example.
If you tell me you are interested in buying a new pet and you ask me what the best pet in the whole world is and I respond by saying “frogs are the best pet in the whole world and they are so awesome because they are really nice and cuddly” etc, you may take my words to mean “You should buy a frog.” I may in fact think that you would be a horrible match for a frog. I just think they are awesome pets.
Heres another real world example. When someone says “Im thirsty,” it often is interpreted as “Lets get a drink” or “could you give me a drink.” The truth is, you can only infer without a doubt that the person is thirsty.
Your problem is that you see a scenario, and see a likely explanation that does sync up well with the facts, and you then infer that it must be the case. It could be the case, but it could also be any number of things.
Here is an example.
“A study was done on 1000 people hanging out at a local lake. The study asked the swimmers if they currently thought that they had “swimmer’s ear,” a common ailment aquired during swimming. 85% of the lake goers correctly identified whether or not they had the problem. This high level of accuracy is even more interesting when considering the success rate of doctors when diagnosing “swimmer’s ear.” Doctors have only be accurate 75% of the time.”
Now you may conclude that the above information is leading you to think that patients know better in regard to “swimmer’s ear,” and therefore need not even go to a doctor to have it diagnosed. This is a reasonable conclusion. There is an alternative conclusion however. It is also possible that the people sampled had in their life already had “swimmer’s ear” diagnosed by a doctor, so that they were unfairly biased in their self detection. In other words, if they swim more than the normal person, they might have had a doctor tell them what swimmer’s ear feels like at one point.
This brings me to the ultimate point Snerd…what can you properly infer then? All you can infer accurately is what is actually stated. Even then you are making the assumption, albeit a just one in most cases, that the information you are reading is not “made up.”
Good thing her daughter is pregnant..good family values + more kids…we need more kids! Way to go 17 year old!
Snerdly Gork,
What did you think of my responses to your six questions? Did you find them helpful. And why didn’t you respond with an insult instead of answering me about being banninated by your boss?
“Somebody check Snerd’s place for pods.”
Po(D)s, you mean.
I thought PeachPit was pro-choice, or was that supposed to be sarcasm?
Good thing her daughter is pregnant..good family values + more kids…we need more kids! Way to go 17 year old!
Posted by: PeachPit at September 1, 2008 4:36 PM
Spewed with the deadly venom of a radical pro-abort PP. Guess you lost one more unneeded baby to irresponsible parents huh? Does that make you sad? Maybe you could channel that saddness into motivation and open a local Planned Parenthood where these kids couls get some counseling and talk some sense into these seventeen year olds. Hey, why don’t you move to Alaska and open a Planned Parenthood abortuary. You can use an alias like “Peaches Mushing Services” so nobody knows Planned Parenthood is moving into town. Just think of what a wonderful world YOU could create by killing all these “unneedded” babies.
Oliver …. I am typing on cell phone k/board …. frustrating
Appreciate your response (something for you to consider t(R)oof … content ‘wise’ I mean). In theory I am aware of two major concepts in your posts.
Everything is open to interpretation. Agreed. I am particularly interested in the question of ‘what’ any interpretation is based upon. 4 me it goes beyond the idea of axioms and to the structure of thought and cognition itself.
You second main point seems to be the distinction between inference and deduction. Though not philosophically trained, RE: my McCane war-4-oil statement analysis, I thought I stayed within the deductive framing of the statement … No?
If not, please identify where not.
Snerd
Snerdly,
Next time try this as a test to see if your statement goes beyond deduction and into inference.
If you take the statement and stand it by itself would the person reading the statement get the intent of the person who spoke it. If yes, then you are likely closer to deduction; if no, then you are likely closer to inference. In the interview Sarah was talking in much broader terms then Iraq, for starters, the word Iraq was never even mentioned, so it would be wrong to represent her statements as being specifically about Iraq. Read her words again and try to understand what she was trying to say and then report that honestly. Don’t try and bend and twist it to fit your own political agenda. Then you’ll be doing a lot more deductive reporting and a lot less inferring.
Break it down, What do you think Sarah meant when she used the words “in some sense”? Was she referring to war in Iraq for oil or broader US policy?
RE: Troopergate and shifting story from Palin.
Initially she denied anything to Monegan’s charges of pressure from her, her staff, or her husband. When Monegan provided audio evidence of staff pressure which implicated her as source thereof, she changed her story to acknowledge the undeniale but claimed to be unaware of staff’s activity. Not proof of complicity in abuse of power, but a shift from nothing to Monegan’s story to, it has some merit.
Monegan claims to have emails from Sarah. Two investigations under way, so maybe we’ll see..
Snerd
Snerd,
(This is my post in response to question over what an inference is. I also went ahead and dug into deductions as well actually…so I think it is a proper response)
Its hard to demonstrate what an inference is without going to several examples. Essentially it all boils down to what we perceive to be the case. Remember that when you infer something you are essentially saying “this must be true.” The other explanations may seem to you unlikely, but you do not have all the knowledge necessary to make that decision.
If I say “Off shore drilling will destroy America” I am not necessarily saying that I dont support it. Maybe I support the destruction of America? So when McCain says that he wants to eliminate our dependency on oil to prevent a second war in the ME, we can only directly infer that he is concerned that there may be a second war in the ME, if we are dependent on oil.
You can also think of it as conditional statement.
McCain is trying to assert that oil dependency is a sufficient condition of another war in the ME. That would read like so…
If oil dependency, then ME war. or
OD -> ME war
We can also take the contrapositive of this statement to get…
If no ME war, then no oil dependency. or
~(ME war) -> ~(OD)
However, you are trying to infer that McCain is asserting the oil dependency as a NECESSARY condition. In other words…that if there is a war, it is because of oil dependency, which would read something like this…
Me War -> OD
with the contrapositive of
~(OD) -> ~(ME War)
It is a common misconception that the word “prevent” means to stop completely when it comes to a logic interpretation of an argument. It really means, in better terms, to help make not happen. In other words, I eat healthy to prevent being unhealthy. However, I could become unhealthy from something unrelated to my eating habits…such as contracting a cold or something.
In other words, he is not saying that stoping OD will STOP a war, he is saying that stoping OD will HELP MAKE a war NOT HAPPEN, which of course opens the possibility up that there are other sufficient factors that could lead to a war in the ME.
All this of course is also dependent on the acceptance that “another war” is the same as “the current war.” There could be factors entirely different which makes them unrelated. Think WWI versus WWII. They both happened on the same “stage” so to speak, and they both had very similar characteristics, but you will however see that the US involvement in those wars was markedly different.
t(R)oof … a most cogent response. Thanx
I must disagree with your deductive ‘assessment tool’, proximity to the speaker’s intent, on 2 fronts.
People sometimes let unintended things slip out, and may or may not be aware of it. They might say one thing and mean another. They might have intended what their words say at one time but regret it later and deny the original intent. Etc. Therefore, while a factor, a speakerss professed intent, provides little certainty.
Secondly, deductive logic has rules about the way words and therefore meaning go together …. rules of the road as it were, independent of who is driving
…. and this mini k/board is drivind me nuts …..
In any case, McCane’s words on their own, clearly link US troops in the M.E. to oil. To date the way it’s presented above, in it’s deductive meaning, remains unchallenged as a deductive case, I feel.
Snerd
Snorkly Gourd,
Speaking of changing the subject…… You come and ask questions and then go without even responding to the questions asked of you. I don’t want to infer assumptions and you pick and choose the questions you answer so I will let time bring clarification to deducing the perceptions of both past and future conversations with a Snordly Gerk.
changing the subject…. what is a Snerd Gronk?
I’m not sure which mcCain speech you are talking with Oliver about Snerd, but I was talking with you about the Sarah Palin interview.
Snerd,
Snerd: “In any case, McCane’s words on their own, clearly link US troops in the M.E. to oil. To date the way it’s presented above, in it’s deductive meaning, remains unchallenged as a deductive case, I feel. ”
I just explained exactly why it was flawed deductive reasoning Snerd!
You confused a sufficient condition, for a necessary condition.
You also are making a language shift between “the current war” and “the future war.” The concern over “the future” war could be unrelated to “the current war” much in the way that WW1 and WW2 were unrelated to each other as far as the US involvement goes.
Olie … your Sufficiency and Necessity is well argued, I think. I am interested in its application to McCains actual statements, but this device is too klugie to so now.
In it’s common use ‘infer’ is an interesting term because it can mean to ‘bring in’ or go beyond, as well as, ‘follows from’
Good discussion. I to want to hone up on the diff between Inferential and Deductive.
Snerd
How ‘ bout these tidbits from http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=3282 :
1. Barack Obama, Sr., was married at the time to Kezia Obama, who was three months pregnant when her husband moved to Hawaii on a government scholarship to attend the University of Hawaii. Obama never formally divorced Kezia, yet married Stanley Ann while living in Hawaii.
2. Six months after Barack and Stanley Ann wed, they announced the birth of Barack Obama, Jr. on August 4, 1961.
SIX MONTHS!!!??? What’s wrong with the picshur???
3. Barack Obama, Sr., soon left his wife and newborn son, Barack, Jr., to continue his studies at Harvard University.
You mean to say that Harvard was more important than his family!!???
4. At some point in the 1970s when Barack was attending school in Hawaii, he became acquainted with Frank Marshall Davis, a member of the Communist Party, USA. Davis had moved to Hawaii in 1948 from Chicago where he had been involved in Marxist-related activities.
No kiddin’. Gee, say it isn’t so.
Mr. Inc.
At least Barack’s mom did the right thing and didn’t abort even though she was only eighteen and abandoned by the child’s father. Mr. Barack Obama should keep that in mind and shed his close realtionship with the abortion industry….
Now that will take an epiphany.
Mr. Inc.
At least Barack’s mom did the right thing and didn’t abort even though she was only eighteen and abandoned by the child’s father. Mr. Barack Obama should keep that in mind and shed his close realtionship with the abortion industry….
Now that will take an epiphany.
Posted by: truthseeker at September 2, 2008 1:42 PM
……………………………………………………………
Obviously he understood his mother’s choices or lack there of, a whole lot better and a great deal more deeply than you are capable of.
Obviously he understood his mother’s choices or lack there of, a whole lot better and a great deal more deeply than you are capable of.
Posted by: Sally at September 2, 2008 8:56 PM
But has he had an epiphany yet Sally? That moment when his heart stirs and he realizes that all abortion must be stopped or the next messiah Obama may be destroyed in some “lost” mother’s moment of weakness.
Obviously he understood his mother’s choices or lack there of, a whole lot better and a great deal more deeply than you are capable of.
Posted by: Sally at September 2, 2008 8:56 PM
But has he had an epiphany yet Sally? That moment when his heart stirs and he realizes that all abortion must be stopped or the next messiah Obama may be destroyed in some “lost” mother’s moment of weakness.
Posted by: truthseeker at September 2, 2008 10:43 PM
……………………………………………..
You are a sociopath.
You are a sociopath.
Posted by: Sally at September 2, 2008 11:13 PM
You are a tyro.
Obviously he understood his mother’s choices or lack there of, a whole lot better and a great deal more deeply than you are capable of.
Posted by: Sally at September 2, 2008 8:56 PM
What?! You mean he is sorry that his mother didn’t have the choice to abort him so he is now determined to keep it legal for other women?
Raising Contrasts
At Jill Stanek, on a tip from TCHOTP (more here) Interesting that the election is now about Obama vs Palin, rather than Obama vs McCain – I guess he…