Jivin J’s Life Links 12-1-08
by JivinJ
The university would never order an activist animal rights group that might display pictures of animals bleeding, suffering or dead to turn its pictures inward. Nor would the university censor or threaten antiwar activists for posting pictures of those burnt alive in Hiroshima or Dresden by Allied bombs….
The more likely response would be that such images show the end results of past personal and political decisions. The university would likely argue such depictions might make some uncomfortable, but that’s the point of a university: to question, analyze and debate about one’s own assumptions and morality, as well as that of others.
After adjustment for confounding, abortion was associated with a small increase in the risk of mental disorders; women who had had abortions had rates of mental disorder that were about 30% higher. There were no consistent associations between other pregnancy outcomes and mental health. Estimates of attributable risk indicated that exposure to abortion accounted for 1.5% to 5.5% of the overall rate of mental disorders.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Jill:
You are right on about Janet Napolitano. She is just as liveral as Obama if not more, if there wer posible, i.e.., she is for gay marriage.
I actively campaigned with and traveled with Len Munsil who ran against her in 2006. Everything he said about her came true. She basnkrupted the state and is now leaving for greener pastures.
Check out Len Munsil’s blog for more detailed info on Janet.
http://www.LenMunsil.com
It’s very eye opening. The Libs here in AZ are going bonkers at her departure since she is being replaced by an Evangelical Republican in Jan Brewer.
Hopefully, Len will run for Guv in 2010.
“Estimates of attributable risk indicated that exposure to abortion accounted for 1.5% to 5.5% of the overall rate of mental disorders”
They blame this on Christians for us teaching folks about guilt. This is from Hitchins and dawkins,
Richard dawkins is the biggest noise these days on atheism. By far. He wrote “A god delusion” a wavering christian teen read it, lost faith and committed suicide recentlyy Of course dawkins is to blame. Will he take blame? no way. He is an evilutionist and everything is random any how.
The Lisa Miller piece on pro-life atheists is as ignorant and poorly-researched as they come. She finds it a “surprising point of view” that anyone would object “to the relentless framing of the pro-life arguments in religious terms.” In fact, this relentless framing comes from the secular pro-abortion lobby, who, in league with the liberal media, wants to discuss abortion in anything but scientific terms. NARAL founder Bernard Nathanson outlined how the key tactic of the pro-choice movement was to play “the Catholic card” and that strategy hasn’t changed, in substance, in 40 years.
Miller obviously wants to perpetuate the status quo. To her, “one of the most sympathetic and intriguing aspects of the Hitchens plank, as he outlines it, is how little the atheist talks about fetal science.” Why of course. No true secularist could pretend there was an embryological basis for stopping the killing. It’s all just “squeamishness,” having nothing to do with what is seen through a microscope or on a sonogram.
Why didn’t Miller interview any religious people regarding their opposition to abortion? I think she would have been surprised at how much more science than theology they would have discussed.
The funniest thing about the piece is its subtitle: “Pro-life atheists insist that a human life has intrinsic value, even though they don’t believe in God.” I rather doubt she would have used it if the topic were something other than abortion, for example, opposition to murder or to capital punishment.
For every person’s right to freedom of expression there is the right for counter-expression. If you have the right to protest by putting up crosses, I have the right to take them down. If you have the right to display placards with grotesque photo-shopped versions of fake fetuses then I have the right to play music so loud that you can’t be heard.
If you bring kids to the protest to use as human shields I have the right to call you on your crappy parenting. Rights do not exist in a vacuum. And universities are private spaces, they are not public land. No one not affiliated with the university has the right to protest on that land. Furthermore students have the right to study without the interruption of fringe figures from outside the campus impeding their learning.
“Lisa Miller has an article in Newsweek on pro-life atheists, though I strongly disagree with Christopher Hitchens saying that he’s “pro-life.” It also seems that Hitchens thinks RU-486 is the same thing as emergency contraception.”
Jill, he’s not confused. He said “more like” not the “same thing.”
Here’s what the article said:
What he wants is for both moral callousness and religion to be excised from the abortion debate and for science to come up with solutions to unwanted pregnancies, like the abortifacient mifepristone (RU-486), “that will make abortion more like a contraceptive procedure than a surgical one.
I understand that’s not a “solution” to the abortion problem in your view. I do think that’s where we’re heading, however.
the good thing about the University of Calgary standoff is that these young adults didn’t back down despite being threatened with the loss of their school year and expelled from the university. The are a brave bunch!
The other good news is that a bunch of professors from U of C have written a piece outlining why the university was way off base on this one.
Yo Lo you’re a trip. A sad, lonesome, on the way to nowhere trip, but a trip none the less.
For every person’s right to freedom of expression there is the right for counter-expression. If you have the right to protest by putting up crosses, I have the right to take them down. If you have the right to display placards with grotesque photo-shopped versions of fake fetuses then I have the right to play music so loud that you can’t be heard.
If you bring kids to the protest to use as human shields I have the right to call you on your crappy parenting. Rights do not exist in a vacuum. And universities are private spaces, they are not public land. No one not affiliated with the university has the right to protest on that land. Furthermore students have the right to study without the interruption of fringe figures from outside the campus impeding their learning.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at December 1, 2008 5:48 PM
First of all,
Universities exist with tax money, they are not private.
You want to freely express yourself by having an abortion, people want to freely “counter express” their opinions by staging a true display of what abortion is.
How are these university students not affiliated with the university? Are they not tuition paying students?
“Furthermore students have the right to study without the interruption of fringe figures from outside the campus impeding their learning.”
So let them learn about abortion.
Sheeeeezzzz Yo. Your whole post makes more of an argument for the pro-life students.
Thanks!
For every person’s right to freedom of expression there is the right for counter-expression. If you have the right to protest by putting up crosses, I have the right to take them down. If you have the right to display placards with grotesque photo-shopped versions of fake fetuses then I have the right to play music so loud that you can’t be heard.
This is NOT freedom of expression. This is removing the other’s right to freedom of expression. An appropriate counter protest would be some sort of display that would not damage the other’s expression but be the opposite sentiment. How is removing the crosses protecting the freedom of expression of that group? It is not. It is removing their venue which expresses their opinion – namely that each cross represents an unborn baby. An appropriate response would be another display perhaps demonstrating women who die from so-called illegal abortions. (mind you it would be a small display)
of course your reasoning Mr. Tengo is in line with most liberal proabort elites who seek not to counter express but to eliminate the right of prolifers to express at all.
And Sandy is quite right – universities are public institutions paid for by students and taxpayers and they have supposedly always prided themselves as places where opinions of all kinds can be expressed and explored.
You have made the case for the U of C students all the stronger by your post.
Albeit I haven’t heard the whole story about what went down last week in calgary, but I’d have to say that I agree with the students’ right to protest.
I remember similar protests at the Canadian University I went to in the 80’s. It was no big deal. Nobody really paid them any attention.
For every person’s right to freedom of expression there is the right for counter-expression. If you have the right to protest by putting up crosses, I have the right to take them down. If you have the right to display placards with grotesque photo-shopped versions of fake fetuses then I have the right to play music so loud that you can’t be heard.
If you bring kids to the protest to use as human shields I have the right to call you on your crappy parenting. Rights do not exist in a vacuum. And universities are private spaces, they are not public land. No one not affiliated with the university has the right to protest on that land. Furthermore students have the right to study without the interruption of fringe figures from outside the campus impeding their learning.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at December 1, 2008 5:48 PM
You sure can’t be accused of crappy parenting. you kill ’em.
Yep it is public land if it is public school. You must have had crappy education. I take it you don’t know what free speech is?
and what university was that asitis? Guelph or Uof T perhaps
funny I had the opposite experience.
I can remember a prof who was invited to speak about abortion in one of my moral ethics classes – he had a complete fit when the students in the class, who were predominantly prolife questioned him about his abortion views. It was actually rather comical. He stormed out because he had no answers to some of the questions….
Hey, good guess Patricia! How’d you do that? Couldn’t have been my specialty because you could have guessed UWO, Waterloo, Queens…..
And liberalism runs rampant on campuses pretty much everywhere, so not that. Hmmmmm
I don’t know your specialty asitis. Nor do I know your university.
By far. He wrote “A god delusion” a wavering christian teen read it, lost faith and committed suicide recentlyy Of course dawkins is to blame.
Posted by: xppc at December 1, 2008 5:18 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yeah! …And Taco Bell is to blame for my “Nacho Bell Grande” thighs!
in fact if anything I’d take you for a queens grad – they produce rabid feminists (even of the men grads!)
Ah, then you weren’t paying attention! In a dicussion about evolution, Bobby Bambino asked me what kind of scientist I am and I told him.
So what made you guess U of T or U of G?
What a “rabid feminist” in your mind Patricia? A women who uses birth control? Horrors, they are everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!
asitis: I don’t follow the boards too closely so it’s easy to miss posts.
sometimes I have a block of time but mostly not too much time.
what is your major in and your degree exactly?
Jill,
CHECK THIS OUT!!!!
AND JOIN THE FIGHT!!!
PROTECT OUR CONSTITUTION!!!!
http://f2a.org/coast2coast/ObamaCitizenship.htm
I Strongly Urge all others on this board to join the fight as well.
Protect Our Constitution!!!!
Bachelor and Master degrees in Earth Science.
so you did your degrees at UoT and Guelph?
which was the masters?
Why does it matter to you where I did them? I don’t know if I really want you tracking me down Patricia.
do you work as an geologist nowadays?
actually I don’t want to track you down but you realize that I know more about these fields than I let on….
geology is/was a pretty male-dominated field in the 1970’s and 80’s…..
Exactly! I’m not your typical girl! Somebody here (it may have even been you) assumed I was a man.
After a 15 year career I am happily retired… for now anyway. Life is good……..
asitis, when did you get your first degree?
Okay I’ll save you the trouble of having to ask all the questions. Bachelors 83-88(started right out of high school after Grade 13 at age 19). Masters 88-90. Fulltime career 90-2004. Retired 4 year ago at age 40. Anything else?
A MUST LISTEN!!!!!
http://www.lanlamphere.com/audio/livejava.php
“the good thing about the University of Calgary standoff is that these young adults didn’t back down despite being threatened with the loss of their school year and expelled from the university. The are a brave bunch!”
Yeah! Why should young kids care about their future! They’ll be able to help A LOT MORE with the pro-life movement if they get expelled from school.
Just kidding. That’s ridiculous, Patrica.
Leo is On!
http://www.plainsradio.com/chat.html
A Brilliant Man!
I said this in a former post, and I’ll say it here. Gore-filled images of any kind are extremely disturbing to me. Blood, death, and suffering are not something I’d like to see. Images of stick-thin holocaust survivors, horrifying faces of the dead from car crashes, and aborted babies are too much for me, and a lot of others I suspect. I KNOW right and wrong, I know the general facts about abortion procedures and that babies look so human at such a young age. I know people suffered like you wouldn’t believe in the Holocaust. I also know and understand the idea that a lot of people DON’T know these things, and ought to be made aware of what barbaric people have done in our history. But on the other hand, there are a lot of people that have nothing to gain from barbaric photos, and in fact, are deeply disturbed by them, to the point that it gives them nightmares. There has to be a better way to get the message across than to throw these photos everywhere. People put these pictures on posters and shove them in your face, so that you can’t avoid it! There was one such poster taped on the outside of my high school, at the door I normally entered right by the parking lot. People wave these signs at rallies while children pass by. There HAS to be a better way than to continually bombard those who love the unborn with images of their tragic deaths.
Retired at 40, lol!
Laura,
I hear what you are saying. I think those pictures reach some people. There are those that support abortion but don’t know exactly what an abortion does to a growing baby inside its mother. They hide behind the word “choice” and get all bent and change the subject to photo shopped pictures and fake babies. If you support it, own it. Deal with what you support.
I have a very hard time with them as well. They rip my heart out every.time. I know that is what my daughter went through during my abortion.
Yes! lol = lots of luck!
Yeah! Why should young kids care about their future! They’ll be able to help A LOT MORE with the pro-life movement if they get expelled from school.
Just kidding. That’s ridiculous, Patrica.
Posted by: Josephine at December 1, 2008 10:10 PM
would you put your life on the line for anything Josephine? I wonder?
I have 3 very close family friends that are stuck in Bangkok, Thailand right now. Please join me in praying for their safe return home. Thank you. :)
Carla: I heard about that. I was listening to the son of one of the people trapped saying they are over 70 and the health insurance runs out soon and they are very very anxious. It could be months before they are allowed out.
wiki:
Hitchens has a daughter, Antonia, with his wife Carol Blue, whom he married in 1991. Hitchens has two children, Alexander and Sophia, by a previous marriage in 1981 to Eleni Meleagrou, a Greek Cypriot, whom Hitchens divorced in 1989 whilst she was pregnant with his second child.[110]
Hitchins is a massive consumer of alcohol.
He has a brother that is a Christian.
so what you are saying xppc, is that Hitchen lives what he believes: pagan is pagan does
Yo la tango’s post reminds me of the tactics used by the brown shirts of Germany in the 1930’s. They picked fights with anyone who disagreed with them, as if using physical violence against peaceful opponents was their “divine right”. How typical of those who support using the ultimate physical violence against the innocent unborn.