“Recovering Evangelical”: Life is about more than abortion
Chris La Tondresse, founder of RecoveringEvangelical.com, appeared on Fox News December 29 to promote talking points initiated during the Obama campaign that Evangelical concerns should reach beyond abortion and gay marriage.
La Tondresse’s rationale…
There’s over 2,000 verses in the Bible that deal with God’s care and concern for the poor. There are less than 2 dozen on homosexuality and even fewer that address abortion. Now you certainly wouldn’t get that impression from looking at the political agenda of the far right. Now for my generation, if we have to choose between those 2,000 verses that deal with poverty or those 2 dozen, it’s a no brainer.
La Tondresse states on his website he is “Special Assistant to Jim Wallis,” an Evangelical Obama supporter.
On Fox, La Tondresse stated he is part of a “whole generation of evangelicals… applying their faith… to a broader and deeper agenda than ever before. It includes things like poverty, HIV/AIDs, genocide, human trafficking, the war in Iraq, global climate change….”
La Tondresse further stated the Republican Party will continue to lose young Evangelical voters by focusing on abortion and gay marriage:
La Tondresse: There are 3,000 abortions in America every single day, and that is a number that’s unfit for any caring society. But there are 30,000 kids that died yesterday, will die today, and will die tomorrow from hunger, lack of clean drinking water, and preventable diseases. And my generation continues to be pro-life, but for us that definition has to be broader than ever before. It has to include those 30,000 kids in order to be taken seriously.
Interviewer: When you say 30,000 kids, you mean around the world, not just this country.
La Tondresse: Absolutely. It’s global and it’s proportional.
I find three false premises with La Tondresse’s logic:
1. … that “political Evangelicals on the far right,” as La Tondresse calls us, are not concerned with issues aside from abortion and gay marriage. We are both personally (missions) and politically involved in those human life struggles. It is the older generation of Evangelicals who give the bulk of the money in church/taxes to fight these evils.
2. … that La Tondresse’s generation has to choose between caring about abortion vs. the others.
3. … that if numbers constitute proportional need, La Tondresse compared the wrong statistics. La Tondresse compared U.S. abortion stats against worldwide death-by-poverty stats. In fact, there are 115,000 abortions daily worldwide, according to Guttmacher (42 million divided by 365), so almost 4x as many children die from abortion worldwide daily than all other poverty-related reasons combined.
[HT: moderator Carder]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Perhaps Chris thinks that somehow, someway, Obama really will lower the ocean levels.
This is why I am pro-life……
From an audiotape of Dr. Martin Haskell giving a presentation at the 16th Annual Meeting of the National Abortion Federation Conference in 1992 in San Diego. It was a gathering of abortionists — men and women who make their living by killing babies. Haskell was describing to his audience how to do a partial-birth abortion. Listen to his words about how this procedure takes place:
“The surgeon then introduces large grasping forceps … through the vaginal and cervical canal … He moves the tip of the instrument carefully towards the fetal lower extremities — and pulls the extremity into the vagina … The surgeon then uses his fingers to deliver the opposite lower extremity, then the torso, the shoulders, and the upper extremities. The skull lodges in the internal os. The fetus is oriented … spine up … The surgeon then takes a pair of blunt curved Metzenbaum scissors in the right hand. … the surgeon then forces the scissors into the base of the skull — spreads the scissors to enlarge the opening. The surgeon then introduces a suction catheter into this hole and evacuates the skull contents.”
This all done is the name of CHOICE!! This is brutal, pre-meditated murder!!! Done here in our backyards and we are to sit back and do nothing. I won’t! And now if the baby is born and the mother and abortionist don’t want him/her, then OK, just let the baby lay in the dirty storage and die, gasping for breath, shivering on the cold counter.
And I will turn it around, should we spend our efforts over seas when this is happening in our own country?
Carder 12:21am
Have you forgotten? Obama lowered the ocean levels the day he accepted his nomination. He proclaimed that the day of his nomination would be remembered for this momentous event. Oh, and the earth also began healing that day as well.
Funny you mention Jim Wallace, just got/started one of his books for Xmas. It’s been a fascinating read thus far, definitely worth picking up.
On the road toward immorality and self justification.
The writer seems to think it is one or the other. Then she can’t support why one is a higher calling than the other.
I wonder how many die of AIDS?
What about obesity and it’s related illnesses? smoking?
The first two premises missrepresent his actual arguments. He’s making a proportionality/broader focus are argument, and you dishonestly change that to mutually exclusive binary sets.
Not surprising though considering you have no sense of reason or morality.
The third premise, I’d agree with you, and my eyebrow went up too when he invoked the numbers.
Alas… he’s an evangelical… reality’s always been challenge for you all. At least he’s making an effort. He’s still right though. If you’re really prolife, you should be anti-poverty (GOP is anti-welfare), you should be anti war (GOP is pro-war), you should be pro-babies (GOP is anti-child… see conservative infant death syndrome), you should be pro-environment (GOP is anti-environment).
Has GOP ended abortion or homosexuality? No. It’s a wedge issue, which helps them get votes.
It is still a no brainer.
carder: Perhaps Chris thinks that somehow, someway, Obama really will lower the ocean levels.
Yes, indeed. I have it on good authority that his handlers plan to seat him on the beach at low tide, and ask him to hold out his hand and command the waters to recede. No word yet on what the plan is when he gets his feet wet.
Oh, and btw Jill, why do you still put up with cameron? Quite honestly, his nasty personal attacks against you make me physically ill.
Cameron doesn’t know that welfare does not cure poverty. It feeds it. It reinforces non productive behaviors like watching Oprah re runs and waiting for “the check”.
Cameron,
Welfare does nothing to eliminate poverty, it all too often traps people into lives of poverty and dependence.
The Democrats are anti-war? Ever hear of World War 1? (Woodrow Wilson(D)) WW 2 (Franklin Roosevelt(D)) The Vietnam War? (Eisenhower(R), Kennedy(D), Johnson(D), Nixon(R)), you’ll recall the Democrats only entrenched us more deeply in Vietnam. The recent presidency of Bill Clinton(D) who bombed the Serbs.
Exactly what is conservative infant death syndrome?
Doyle,
Cameron’s actually toned it down slightly. You should have seen him about a year and a half ago. He made SoMG look like a kindergartener.
He left voluntarily but has since resurfaced.
Actually, Doyle, before Jill hit Major Media status, she had more time back then to converese with posters. She and MK had field days with Camchilla.
Doyle
Please refer to my 12:36PM post. The One already proclaimed the ocean levels are receding.
I don’t know if this proclamation was made before or after his daily stroll on the Potomac.
Okay, what I have to say is that for the past 11 years I have supported two orphans and a widow from Obama’s Luo tribe in Kenya…which is much more than BHO has done. I go to Africa every year on a mission trip and have also been to Jamaica and Mexico on mission trips. So to say I am only interested in stopping abortion is just plain wrong. Also,when I saw how little BHO gave to charity..it made me sick.
Chris is a puppet. Nothing more, nothing less.
So why is Obama fat catting it in Hawaaii? He seems to have big bucks for himself. the liberal that voted for Obama hasn’t seen Obama give his own money. Just promise to give the money of ohers.
BURN THE WITCH.
Mary: Please refer to my 12:36PM post. The One already proclaimed the ocean levels are receding.
Yeah, just since he won the election, right?
Jill, right on!
There are children dying in the world, not because there are too many children, but because the wealth and resources are being used primarily by the west. There is also a great deal of corruption within many third world countries.
However, it might be an idea to pull the plank out of our eye before we go after the speck in theirs. After all, many African nations do not respect us because of our willingness to kill our babies and our eagerness to redefine “family”.
So lets stop the killing in the western countries first and let’s stop importing our birth control and other killing knowledge to these countries. They don’t want it. Let’s stop linking birth control to food and birth control to aid. Let’s repect their culture, even if we don’t respect our own culture.
I wonder what Mr. La Tondresse would say if there were 3000 criminals put to death every day in the U.S. Obviously, he would find that appalling and would work unceasingly to bring that to an end. It would demand the greatest part of his energies and would be his principal focus. Why not the same effort to bring an end to the feticide that claims 3000 innocent babies every day?
@ anon: I think if there were 3000 crows or salamanders dying everyday in the US, the mainstream media would have a complete fit. It would be front-page news. CNN would have minute-by-minute coverage.
fter all, many African nations do not respect us because of our willingness to kill our babies and our eagerness to redefine “family”.
What, exactly, are you referring to here? Do you have some links where I could learn more about this African attitude??
Common Hmmm.. get with it.
“Let my people go, Aids profiteers.”
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jul/08072101.html
and this:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov/08111003.html
This first story relates to an original piece in the Washington Post (lest Jill’s liberal friends scream bias) and the second is about a Kenyan doctor and what the election of Obama might mean to his country.
“We in Kenya know him (Obama) as a person who is anti-family,” Dr. Karanja said. “A person who would support abortion. In America they can do all right killing their babies. But they must not associate us with the people who would want our babies to be killed.”
Africa, he said, has been “saturated” with contraceptives by US-based international aid organisations, pushing an anti-child, anti-family ideology. The anti-family efforts of many international aid organizations, however, were frustrated by the Bush administration, which severely restricted overseas funding for contraceptives and abortion. The election of Obama, on the other hand, has been hailed as a victory for many such organizations, such as International Planned Parenthood, which expect a massive influx of funding and support from an Obama administration.
90 per cent of those in Kenya polled over the last twenty years, said Dr. Karanja, hold abortion to be an “abomination.” “And therefore the people who want abortion in our country, 90 per cent of them would consider them an abomination.
“There is something in Africa we have that they should come and learn,” he continued. “Something called ‘respecting the family’ respecting the elders, respecting the children, hoping for the best, and not being ruled. And people from the west have a problem with this.”
BTW, how many children does Obama have? Oh that’s right, just two.
Hi, everyone, I trust you all had a Merry Christmas.
Here’s my problem w/ this article:
If human life is not sacred then there is no basis for any other humanitarian work. If, for example, 3000 toddlers were being killed every day in America, would we still be running around and pointing accusatory fingers at those trying to stop the killing of not doing enough to help others? Of course not.
Of course, it’s a moot point anyways since I don’t know a single pro-lifer who isn’t involved in other humanitarian efforts.
PRESIDENT BUSH GAVE MORE MONEY TO FIGHT POVERTY AND DISEASE IN AFRICA THEN ANY OTHER PRESIDENT. AND HE IS PRO-LIFE. IT DOESN’T MATTER TO LIBERALS THOUGH, LIKE THE HYPOCRITE CAMERON WHO SAID HIS PRESIDENCY WAS A DISASTER. THEY WANT US TO GIVE IN AND ACCEPT ABORTION. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS LIE.
Jasper is 100% CORRECT. George W. Bush did more to help poor people in Africa than any president, heck, any PERSON in HISTORY. The insane argument that Bush has done nothing for the poor is made only by Hell-bound liars.
The blood of the innocent victim pollutes the land and no there is no cap and trade, no offset, no credit that may be applied that will ameliorate the corruption. There are only two remedies. One is required by the ‘law’, the other is offered freely by grace and received by faith.
Mr. LaTondresse and his band of merry men can tilt at the windmill of ‘global warming’, but they have an impending crisis of biblical proportions building all around them that is about to overwhelm them, ‘just as it was in the days of Noah’….
yor bro ken
Too stunned to laugh…you are correct about what they think of abortion in Africa but they do not know that about BHO because the media will not portray that side to them. When they hear that, they are horrified.
I come here everyday and read this blog because 1) it’s my job to keep up with what the micro issue right wing is doing and there’s no anti-abortion rights stalwart greater in America than Jill Stanek and 2) It’s always good to get my heart rate up beyond 100.
I don’t have the US franchise but I do still care what happens to the American people. What you advocate, taking the right of a woman to choose to terminate a preganacy would a step backwards for civil liberties that could not be gotten back in one hundred years. I advocate allowing for the states to make their own call but that wouldn’t be enough for your kind. You want abortion illegal and gay marriage to never exist.
Well I’ve got a little info for you. Roe v. Wade won’t be overturned in 50 years now. In 50 years all fifty states will allow gay marriage. The kids that take over for the Boomers are less churchy, more reasoning and less likely to devolve into becoming “pro-life” or a Crazy Christian after they realize that life is actually almost over at 40. They will have Faith and have the common sense to worship in church and be rational in the city council meetings. And isn’t this what you are really fighting? This is the fin de siecle blanc when it comes to the dominance of white Christian culture in America. Soon the culture will be secular and multicultural forcing the Jill Staneks of America to become more radical to get their voice heard.
The terrorist of the 21st Century might be stereotypically Arab and Muslim but the terrorist of the 22nd Century will be white, female and Southern Baptist and just as willing to blow herself up in an abortion clinic for her cause as a member of Lashkar-e-Taiba is to storm a hotel in Mumbai for his. Fundamentalism, even when the goal is unachievable, is a disease that can only be cured by natural selection. But oh, that’s right you probably have a problem with that too.
You know if I read this on my mobile on the treadmill I might be able to get up to 130!
Oh, Fredrick, aren’t you original.
I actually agree with you that our society is nearly so demented that we have reached the point of no return. However, you are mistaken about the youth of our nation.
Today’s youth are more pro-life than ever. They have rationally looked at abortion and found it to be morally lacking regardless of their religious affiliation. They might simultaneously support gay marriage, evolution, and the pro-life movement. In fact, we have several such posters on this site. Abortion is not a matter that only religious extremists oppose. The deliberate killing of a human being is something that rational people oppose. Painting us all with the brush of extremism doesn’t change that fact.
Wow, Frederick, dude, how about using logic in making your arguments. You make no sense..
Lauren @ 9:08 PM — excellent post — thank you!
Maria: but they DO know as evidenced by the good doctor’s quotes in my post.
And they don’t want any part of Obama.
@Fred: you only hope this is what prolifers will become. However, liberals have been claiming this for years and have even been actively working towards promoting this view of prolife people as hard-ass, vigilant types who spew violence.
*Funny thing, it was the young praying Christians who needed to be protected from those “tolerant” gay types in California at the beginning of the month.
*Funny thing, but it was the “tolerant” Student Senator Roderick King who went about ripping up and destroying the prolife Cemetary of the Crosses display on the Wisconsin U campus earlier this year and who was arrested. He tolerantly stated “The freedom of speech does not cover these signs and symbols!”
*Funny thing, but it was the “tolerant” atheist, Professor Paul Z Myers of the University of Minnesota Morris who posted videos on YouTube of himself desecrating a Host, sacred and revered by Catholics, thereby offending millions.
*Funny thing, it was the “tolerant” principal and teachers of Hutchinson Middle School who wouldn’t let KB wear a prolife t shirt to school.
*Funny thing, but it was a “tolerant” proabort supportor who ripped up and singlehandedly destroyed a prolife display at Western Washington University.
If you ask me, the people who are doing all the terrorizing these days are the gay, proabort, atheistic liberals.
Maybe you should run faster and this time try something other than a treadmill. You usually don’t get anywhere on those things…
I saw two crazy bumper stickers last week. One said, “Impeach 0’bama” [(pbuh). The other said, “A Conservative for 0’bama’ [(pbuh)
A good friend said he heard and saw the 0’bama’s (pbuh) job approval rating for December on CNN last week. The ‘presumptive president elect’ has not yet been inaugurated/coronated and he already has a job approval rating.
I understand there is a great business opportunity in Washington D. C. selling palm branches and adult size depends emblazoned with the presidential seal.
The DNC is searching diligently for a donkey colt that has never been ridden.
The 0’bama (pbuh) has need of it!
And the 0’bama (pbuh) was flown by the spirit of this age into the paradise of Hawaii where he feasted for 11 days and nights on some one else’e tab.
Then the devil said to him ‘Turn these stoners into feds.’ And the 0’bama (pbuh) said, “Man does not live by the feds alone, but by every word that proceeds from my mouth.”
And satan took the 0’bama (pbuh)to the top of the Washington monument and said, “If you are GOD throw yourself off.
And the 0’bama (pbuh) replied, “aaaaaaah, uuuuuuuh, djo, the answer to that is above my pay grade.”
Then satan showed the 0’bama (pbuh) all the republican senate seats in America and he said, “All these I will give to you if you but kneel and kiss my ring.”
And the 0’bama (pbuh) said, “Be gone son of a blagojevich. It is written on the teleprompter that you should worship the 0’bama alone.”
And the governor left him and 70 virgins came and ministered to him.
Now when the 0’bama (pbuh) heard that the son of a blagojevich had been taken into custody, he crossed the potomoc and settled in the blair house in washington dc and those people who had been living in darkness saw a great knight seated on a white donkey colt and they bowed low and worshipped the 0’bama (pbuh) in loud song and dance and with singing and shouting joyfull jubilation. The glory of the 0’bama (pbuh) filled the Lincoln memorial and a great cloud grand jury witnesses and unindicted co-conspirators led them by day and a pillar of envrironmentally friendly LED’s by night. And the heavens were opened and the spirit of this age descended and settled and landed on him like a ‘chicken comin home……..to roost. And the ever rantin Jeremiah Wright said, “Behold my palm has been well greased.”
Hail, hail the gangs all here!
yor bro ken
Okay Andrew, let’s play a little game. Ready? Go get your bible and open it to page Oh I dunno just pick one and read the third verse down from the side and tell me where it is so I can read it. I have a KJV right here and a Qu’ran but I know you wouldn’t have a Qu’ran handy and you sound like a practitioner of Christianity to me. I’m making coffee be right back.
Good evening Lauren!
These would be the same youth I take that take abstinence oath and do the Silkver ring thing or are willing to meet at the pole. I never really got that last one. Anyway that abstinence thing isn’t working and the feds spent 170+MM USD on it. Wouldn’t that have fed a lot of kids? What’s so harmful about giving kids the truth about sex. Oh, that’s right sex is dirty outside marriage isn’t it?
Please forgive me. Frederick’s post got me goin and I just could not help myself. Somethin gotta hold a me!
yor bro ken
ken, that was really quite good!
I hope you got a laugh or two out of that. I know I did.
But wait. I believe Frederick is going to launch into an exegesis or exorcsism of his own.
yor bro ken
Ken that was awesome!
Just tell me you laughed at least once.
yor bro ken
toostunnedtolaugh,
A federal judge responded that little KB’s 1st amendment right to free speech were violated and despite the nature of the shirt they were right. Now when a kid shows up with a picture of the Virgin Mary with a skull on it and you scream foul because you don’t like it and the principal singles that kid out . . .
Dr Slepian is still dead pal. I don’t yet recall any gays or abortion doctors murdering priests or preachers. Eric Rudolph ring a bell?
The Host thing well for it to be a Host you have to be a Catholic, for me a Jew its a wafer with no flavor. Next?
Funny thin is that the law dealt with all those matters and you don’t seem to complain. Why not let the Lord do the work? When you need the law and it is on your side that’s fine but when it is against you all means necessary to overturn Man’s Law should be employed. A funny thing happened on the way to democracy pal it’s called the separation of church and state.
Some Brittish journalist did a similar piece when the 0’bama (pbuh) held forthe mightily in Berlin. I borrowed his concept, but I do not believe I stole his words.
yor bro ken
Anyway that abstinence thing isn’t working…
oh, yes the myth of “abstinence isn’t working”. Of course, the “copulate like rabbits” option is working really well too!
Get off that tread mill Fred, I’m tellin ya!
May the Schwartz be with you too!
Live long and prosper.
yor bro ken
Very well done Ken. You are one funny guy. How’s that economy treating you in the US these days. Oh right you are one of those well to do pro life right wing GOP stalwarts. You have a recession proof job, no one you know was killed or maimed in Iraq and your retirement fund was untouched by the economic collapse. And if any of those things were true or your cat died it would be the fault of some heathen liberal.
Am I close?
Still laughing, Ken. :)
too stunned,
I can only repeat what the boys at Johns Hopkins that were commissioned by the government reported today.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/28/AR2008122801588.html?hpid=topnews
Your first shot at the prophetic was a lot closer Fred.
The baptist church lady with the bomb strapped to her chest was apocalyptic.
You are funny guy too.
yor bro ken
I hope you are drinking decafeinated coffee.
yor bro ken
This early I need the full rich flavor of Java with the jolt.
It’s been fun kids really. Keep up the good fight. It really is all worth it. Remember, keep reachin for the stars!
Dr Slepian is still dead pal. I don’t yet recall any gays or abortion doctors murdering priests or preachers.
Dr Slepian was killed by a very misguided man. To paint an entire movement on this person is dishonest and you know it. There have been very few true acts of violence and most of these are by fringe members who have NEVER been endorsed by prolifers.
The fact is that there is far more violence done to Christians and prolifers by atheists, liberals and proaborts. The examples I cited were but a few that came to mind off the top of my head from this year alone!
Never mind the campus prolife groups that were not allowed to operate on university property, the displays that have been destroyed, the students who have been threatened with expulsion for their Christian or prolife views, the people who have been fired, demoted or ostracized because they cannot follow their conscience in a particular profession or job. The bottom line is that there is only one choice -secular atheistic humanism.
But, take a simple referendum as in California that the proaborts/gay’s lose and now they are not about the allowing man’s law to operate – no they are all about tearing it down. Anything to get their agenda made the law of the land. Even democracy will be sacrificed.
What you state is the terrorist of the future already exists in America – and those terrorists are the gays, the proaborts and the rabid, Christian hating liberals.
What you should know, if you took the time to become informed and were intellectually honest, is that the majority of prolifers are peaceful good people who believe that an entire part of the population is being systematically murdered on the altar of materialism and personal convenience under the guise of “choice”. My guess is that this “choice” has been a part of your life too, Fred.
Fred,
I only just graduated from high school. My job is not recession proof. I am an employee at a commercial air conditioning contractor.
I have never made more than 50k$ a year. I have no retirement. No healthcare for my family. The tax man is wanting to do a colonoscopy on me. I am not a republican. I am independent.
Choices have consequences. Not singing the blues.
yor bro ken
if you are not American, what country are you living in Fred?
I don’t hate anyone toostunned, I just think the secular US society has passed you by. Now there are likely 30 million people who are just as rabid about prolife as you are but 30 million in a sea of 305 million ain’t enough.
When it looks like all is lost and the door is about to shut you future selves will take up arms because in the end you are no different from Hamas or Hezbollah, a once large and powerful force for change that is dwindling under the march of time.
Ken you are an honest dude.
For the where let’s just say I am as about as ex pat from the US as one can get.
Fred I read your blog and truly, I’m sorry I wasted my time. I was expecting something, you know, like maybe quasi-intellectual. Instead I found myself wondering seriously if ANYONE reads the trash you write, so give it up buddy.
Fredrick says “Good evening Lauren!
These would be the same youth I take that take abstinence oath and do the Silkver ring thing or are willing to meet at the pole. I never really got that last one. Anyway that abstinence thing isn’t working and the feds spent 170+MM USD on it. Wouldn’t that have fed a lot of kids? What’s so harmful about giving kids the truth about sex. Oh, that’s right sex is dirty outside marriage isn’t it?”
Perhaps you missed the part explaining that many pro-life youths are secular and support various liberal agendas. Yes, there are religious youths involved in the pro-life movement, but it is hardly confined to them.
Fred, Did I get just a little chuckle out of you too?
yor bro ken
Now there are likely 30 million people who are just as rabid about prolife as you are but 30 million in a sea of 305 million ain’t enough.
so what? numbers are not important. The truth is what is important. If you were a student of the Bible, you’d understand. I believe it was Stalin who asked how many armies the Pope had.
Hey There
I wrote a similar piece in the middle of the night with a bit more detail and critique.
Here’s the post: http://kburchard.wordpress.com
Posted by: Kenny Burchard at December 29, 2008 1:57 PM
———————————————————
I found this on one of the other posts. Seemed like it fit better here.
yor bro ken
@ Posted by: kbhvac at December 29, 2008 9:48 PM
I think that was the most incoherent thing I’ve read in a long time… but, you said something again about his “approval ratings” and again, I searched and didn’t find a darn thing about what you’re talking about.
I’m so glad Obama won just so…well, no amount of anything you can say against him will matter for the next, oh, three and a half years. He’s our President and it’s just something you’re going to have to deal with. That’s just awesome!
Josephine,
the best you can say is that Obomba will be our president and were going to have to deal with it???? What if your Obamanation lads us into a war in Afghanistan and the tribal areas of the Pakistani border region in his first year in office, will you still stand be chanting about change you can believe in? You are realy naive… you would still think Obomba smells like roses.
OOOh Truthseeker, I have friends deployed in Afghanistan RIGHT NOW. Infantrymen getting hurt everyday. In Afghanistan. So, please, explain to me what I think Obama is going to do to bring us to Afghanistan!???? Please?!?
And, please, give more WHAT IF situations that Obama could do. You’re right, he could do those things (even though it wouldn’t be him, he’d need approval..) he could also walk around punch babies, he could juggle fire, he could become a drag racer… he could do lots of things. Doesn’t mean they’re probable. ;)
Hahah… I’m naive and you apparently didn’t realize how many troops are fighting in Afghanistan right now because of your precious W. Wow, that’s a good’un.
“I come here everyday and read this blog because 1) it’s my job to keep up with what the micro issue right wing is doing”
That’s your job, huh Fredrick? You know, after looking at your blog, it doesn’t surprize me that you work for the Democrat party or the Obama administration…
ken,
As always, funny and right on target!
“I come here everyday and read this blog because 1) it’s my job to keep up with what the micro issue right wing is doing”
The extreme leftists here abort their offspring. The Muslims let them get a little larger and strap suicide bombs on their backs. What is the difference? All is done in hope of pleasure.
The thing I find so fascinating is how we use these hot buttons words like evangelical and they get all this attention.
I saw a bit of this guy on TV and he also reminds me of some of the same things I’ve read from Tony Campolo.
They are of course mostly correct but it is hard for anyone to admit it because you think it begins to erode your position.
The debate about welfare as the solution to poverty is worthless. We all know those programs don’t work but the truth is we don’t talk enough about poverty and justice….things that Jesus talked and cared a lot about. If that is his basic message we shouldn’t mock it. I’m not advocating more government programs I’ve advocating more individuals choosing to go out and make a personal difference in other people’s lives.
Institutions can’t provide compassion. Its antithetical. People must provide love and compassion.
BTW….I AM an evangelical and I refuse to be defined and boxed into just the abortion and gay marriage issue.
@xppc
You must be joking.
If America is a 79% Christian nation then it would stand to reason that if 3000 abortions a day are being performed then close to 2400 of those are Chrsitian girls aborting their “offspring.” I would go so far to be realistic enough to posit that half are the same types of Christians that many of you are here, but when faced with the situation the default of lifestyle over religion wins out.
Human nature folks, a powerful force.
Joe, of course we should care about issues other than abortion. However, advocating supporting a candidate or party who supports abortion because they pretend to support the poor isn’t really compassion.
Conservatives give a higher percentage of their income to charity than liberals. We aren’t the mean, stingy grinches that the MSM makes us out to be.
Interestingly enuf – Dr. James Dobson said that the Republican Party’s Platform was the MOST pro-life it’d been in YEARS.
That my children who are in their late 20’s are INTERESTED in pro-life issues and do not VOTE for Democrats who are TYPICALLY pro-abort.
That some people JUST b’c they CALL themselves Evangelical are NOT … and just muddy up the waters and confuse those with weak minds on the subject of the IMPORTANCE of pro-life voting.
That I’m SURE he didn’t include the MANY stories of pro-life issues that are spoken of in the Word of God – such as the baby who Solomon wanted to chop in half or the non-death of Isaac.
Just a couple more.
Fred makes an excellent point about how many abortions are committed by women who align themselves with Christian beliefs. It actually helps us understand what is happening to our culture while we rapidly descend the slippery slope towards ever increasing disrespect of the sacredness of human life.
The pernicious culture of death pulls people into it in many and subtle ways, and along with it those who in another day in time might have otherwise resisted what is presented by the abortion industry as the easy way out of tough situations.
History is littered with examples of great societies who have imploded due to the immorality of the masses. It doesn’t happen overnight but if left unchecked we will certainly be numbered among those fallen empires who enjoy that dubious distinction.
A recent newswire article from a respected Russian writer has the U.S. crumbling by the year 2010. While I do not believe that will happen, it does serve to point out that many in the world believe we are in a state of decline, and they could not be happier about it.
That is why those who understand what is happening to us continue to work and pray for the conversions of all who are are calling “good” the very things that are destroying us.
Fred,
You are about to stumble into the ugly part of the ‘truth’ of abortion.
In the United States of America:
‘Christian’ kids are aborting at about the same rate as ‘non-christian’ kids. But that is a predictable outcome. They are under more pressure to keep up the facade of ‘holiness’.
‘Christian’ adults are divorcing at about the same rate as ‘non-christians’.
This is troubling to me on many levels. My concern is not limited to the non-christians. Divorce sucks even when it seems to make sense.
Abortion always injures at least two victims.
I am just glad that God causes HIS rain and HIS blood to fall on the unjust.
yor bro ken
@ Posted by: kbhvac at December 29, 2008 9:48 PM
I think that was the most incoherent thing I’ve read in a long time… but, you said something again about his “approval ratings” and again, I searched and didn’t find a darn thing about what you’re talking about.
Posted by: Josephine at December 30, 2008 12:20 AM
—————————————————————-
Josephine, I never intended ‘coherency’, I was hoping to provoke some laughter. But you would have to be a little bit familiar with the ‘book’ for some of it to be coherent. Even if you had never read the ‘book’ just some familiarity with the 0’bama (pbuh) and current events would tickle your funny bone somewhere. Didn’t a smile creep across your face at least once?
If I told some Bush jokes for parity sake would that allow you the liberty to laugh at the 0’bama (pbuh)?
I suggest you do a personal inventory and see if you might have misplaced your ‘sense of humor’. I enjoy humor even when it is my sacred cow that is being gored.
One of the key ingredients to humor is a little truth. There was a little truth in what I wrote.
Do you know what Bill Clinton and the 0’bama (pbuh) have in common?
Neither one is African-American!
Send an email to CNN and inquire about the 0’bama (pbuh) job approval rating.
I asked my friend again today and he says (and I believe him.) that he both heard and saw it on CNN.
I would not knowingly mislead you on something as consequential as that.
yor bro ken
I read the ABC article that spotlighted this douchebag and I saw the video of him on FoxNEWS the other day and just wanted to puke my guts out.
I hate this idiot with all of my guts. With all of my guts!
If you try to register as a member to post a comment responding to any of the blogs on his recoveringevangelical site it goes into “pending” status and then this douche decides based on your ID and e-mail address apparently whether he will let you become a member so you can post responses to any of the incredibly lame blog posts on the site.
Ezek1319: you WERE forewarned. His blog is trash.
I was expecting something, you know, like maybe quasi-intellectual. Instead I found myself wondering seriously if ANYONE reads the trash you write, so give it up buddy.
Posted by: toostunnedtolaugh at December 29, 2008 10:31 PM
I also can see he has about as much respect for women as Hugh Hefner. You know what they say, garbage in, garbage out.
@ Posted by: kbhvac at December 30, 2008 6:41 PM
I looked it up on CNN’s website. I’m not even trying to be rude. I’m really just trying to figure out what exactly it is. The only thing close is a poll where 79% of people polled think Obama is doing a good job of handling his transition?
Given all the failing preachers crapping on the cross its no wonder that there is a group of recovering evangelicals. Someones gotta call BS on TBN televangelist snake-charmers,watergate cronies and money-grubbing name it and claim it faith-healers.
Posted by: Jasper at December 29, 2008 7:52 PM
Spending billions on AIDS is no good if you limit funding to only abstinence program. “Don’t Screw or You’re Screwed” screws everybody in the end.
Posted by: Josephine at December 30, 2008 8:02 PM
‘I looked it up on CNN’s website. I’m not even trying to be rude. I’m really just trying to figure out what exactly it is. The only thing close is a poll where 79% of people polled think Obama is doing a good job of handling his transition?’
——————————————————-
Well, Josephine, even if that is all you find, it is close enough for horseshoes and handgrenades. What other ‘job’ does he have right now?
Remember I qualified the statement with the disclaimer that it was second hand/hearsay.
Can you give me an example of another ‘president elect’ whose ‘transition’ warranted an opinion poll?
Does the 0’bama (pbuh) wear boxers or briefs, or does he go commando?
Is the first dog elect housebroken yet?
Are the president elects children allowed to eat sweets at bedtime?
Does the first lady prefer paper or plastic?
(I almost qualify to be a White House co-respondent. Who said journalism in America is dead?)
yor bro ken
Josephine,
When the supposed journalists and news organizations stop acting like a bunch of enfatuated teenagers (I almost typed teenage girls. Boy was that close.), then I will take on a more serious attitude. Until they do I will illustrate their absurd adolecent like behavior with more absurdity.
If I make an error in fact when I am making serious attempt at objective truth then I will admit I made an error and I will correct it publicly for all to see.
I can admit when I am wrong, unlike the 0’bama (pbuh). The pretender has an image to uphold.
I am in no wise encumbered.
(When I see the presumptive president in waiting with Bush I am reminded of Barney Fife (Bush resembles Andy Griffith and the 0’bama (pbuh) resembles Don Knotts) begging the Sherrif, “Give me the bullet Andy, give me the bullet!”
Barney confuses the gun with the badge as the symbol of authority.
But as all good Marxists know, ‘Power comes from the barrel of a gun’, so the mistake is understandable.)
yor bro ken
OOOh Truthseeker, I have friends deployed in Afghanistan RIGHT NOW. Infantrymen getting hurt everyday. In Afghanistan. So, please, explain to me what I think Obama is going to do to bring us to Afghanistan!???? Please?!?
And, please, give more WHAT IF situations that Obama could do. You’re right, he could do those things (even though it wouldn’t be him, he’d need approval..) he could also walk around punch babies, he could juggle fire, he could become a drag racer… he could do lots of things. Doesn’t mean they’re probable. ;)
Hahah… I’m naive and you apparently didn’t realize how many troops are fighting in Afghanistan right now because of your precious W. Wow, that’s a good’un.
Posted by: Josephine at December 30, 2008 12:57 AM
Jose,
Your Obamanation himself said he intends to move troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. Maybe you have selective perception. And he said he intends to strike AlQueda in Pakistan…1+1=2.
above post was me
….you said he planned on starting a war there. I pointed out that we’re already there fighting. Obviously he’s not starting anything new. YOU’RE the one that said he was going to “go to war” with Afghanistan. :) He also wants to slowly bring troops home and not send anymore over. You did know that, correct? Maybe YOU have selective perception?
I stand corrected about leading us to war in Afghanistan, we are already there and the Obamanation has been promoting increased presence and escalation of the fighting there. That will mean more US troops dead and wounded. The Obamanation has talked about bringing troops home from from Iraq cause it was politically expedient. But he has NEVER talked anything but an escalation of the war in Afghanistan and the tribal areas of the Pakistani border, so it will likely mean more of your friends coming home in a box in the years of your savior. But I guess you’ll just have to deal it. Isn’t that awesome?
He has never talked about deploying troops from the US right now to Afghanistan. If he had, we’d have gone over it in drill. That’s pretty much all I do at drill. Talk about what the future plans are for the US military.
By the way, did you seriously just talk about my friends dying like it’s a joke? Seriously? Wow. I wonder what YOUR savior thinks about that. You’re right. Young troops dying is hilarious and awesome. It’s definitely something to joke about.
One, two, three; what are we fightin four?
Don’t ask me I don’t give a damn,
next stop is Afghanistan.
And it’s five,six,seven; open up the pearly gates
Ain’t no time to wonder why,
whoopie, were all gonna die.
Come on all you big strong men,
pack your boys off to Afghanistan.
Come on mom’s don’t hesitate,
send you sons off before it’s too late
Be the first one on your block,
to have your boy come home in a box.
One, two, three; what are we fightin four?
Don’t ask me I don’t give a damn,
next stop is Afghanistan.
And it’s five,six,seven; open up the pearly gates
Ain’t no time to wonder why,
whoopie, were all gonna die.
And I take YOUR friends dying more seriously than you do cause I got a couple teen-age boys and I am afraid your Obamanator may end up screwing things up so bad that they will get drafted into WW3.
Why would anybody trust the lifes of service men and woman to a person who votes 100% against laws to protect the lives of babies in the womb?
FOCA him!
Really? You’re making jokes about my friends dying, and you’re taking it seriously? Are you that dense? Are you really so pompous that you posted a cadence? Are you kidding?
And, well, if your kids get drafted.. I don’t care. I signed up for this knowing that things will get better. I guess I have more faith than you. You’re complaining about someone who isn’t even in office.
Hm. Who would have thought I have more faith than you. Interesting. :)
TS, why would YOU entrust the lives to someone who disregards the millions living in poverty? :) It’s okay to let millions die as long as the unborn are saved?
The cadence was actually written by Country Joe and the Fish and performed as a war protest song during the VietNam era, I just replaced VietNam with Afghanistan.
And I guess ignorance is bliss. Cause only an ignoramous would put their faith about a brighter future in the hands of a person who stands against protecting the sanctity of life.
Jack Kevorkian for white house physician!!
It is the pro-life people who DO care about the poor and poverty stricken. How many liberal-minded pro-aborts do you know who work in charitable missions helping the impoverished in third world countries? Hmmmmm
My future is in the hands of God, sweetie. Not Obama. I’m very confident He’ll watch over it for me and use me as He sees fit. Even if that does mean I get deployed. It seems the conservatives are the ones who consider Obama the messiah, if you really think HE is who decides who lives and dies.. :)
Oh, and I never said you wrote the cadence. I just called you pompous for posting a cadence. I mean, are you even in the military or have you ever been?
LOL. It’s the conservatives that care about the poor? You’re just delusional, I guess. I’m a liberal, and I went on a mission trip to South America. It’s not the conservatives, sweetie. It seems you think “conservative” is equivalent to “good person” when it’s not. :)
By the way, the people who are stricken with poverty aren’t just in third world countries. They’re HERE in America. All around us. That’s why we need programs that will help them. You don’t have to fly around the world to help those who need it.
Yeah there are poor all over the world, including America, but I was thinking about the really desperate and desolate places like Africa where it is really a lot closer to hell on earth. Why do you suppose it is primary the “religious” missionaries who are sacrificing their lives helping these neediest of all when they are getting hacked and clubbed to death daily and their children are captired and used as slaves? How many charities without religious affiliations can you name that are doing that kind of work? The typical plight of the needy in Africa makes America’s poor look like a bunch of pompous spoiled indigents.
Then you’ve never seen America’s poor, if you think the poor in Africa make our poor look pompous or spoiled.
Like I said, *I* went to South America on a mission trip. I’m very, very liberal. I went with several kids I went to school with… also, very liberal. We were on the same mission trip as conservatives.
….So, I guess that argument doesn’t work. :)
Oh, and I never said you wrote the cadence. I just called you pompous for posting a cadence. I mean, are you even in the military or have you ever been?
Posted by: Josephine at December 31, 2008 1:37 AM
No, I registered for the draft but I was never called up. Good thing too, cause I couldn’t kill on the word of a commanding officer.
“I’m very, very liberal.”
what did you do Jo? hand out condoms to the kids?
“Then you’ve never seen America’s poor, if you think the poor in Africa make our poor look pompous or spoiled.”
Josephine, there is no comparison. You obviously don’t know the horrors of the poor in Africa. The poor children in America aren’t forced to work the field or as sex slaves to the ones who ransacked their homes and beheaded their parents. This is happens by the hundreds on a daily basis in Africa.
Jasper, I did a lot of things ranging from reading to children to teaching classes (similar to Sunday school.. which I do at my church back home) to “habitat for humanity” type things. Our church spent a long time collecting donations, then didn’t use ANY of the money on the volunteers. Every cent of donation went to the people. We all paid for our own travel arrangements and whatnot.
But, way to try to undermine a good deed, Jasper…
And, sorry TS, but unless you’ve ever been there you don’t know what it’s like. So please stop talking about my friends and I. Kthanks.
TS, I live right outside Chicago. Have you ever been to the city? Did you know there are poor here that die frozen to the street?
Your right though. You tell those people about the poor in Africa. I’m sure that will help their suffering. It will save their lives, feed them, and keep them warm at night..
So tell me, TS, if your child’s dog died, would you tell them it didn’t matter, because someone else’s mom died?
“But, way to try to undermine a good deed, Jasper…”
Sorry, I was only kidding. It was a good deed you did. Good for you :)
I wish I knew if you were being sarcastic or not.
Josephine,
Your inability to see the difference between the poor in the US and the desperation of the poor in Africa who have NO basic human rights is astounding. And my kids know the death of a dog pales in comparison to the death of a mother.
No biggie Jo..I like to joke around sometimes.
SO!?? Someone else’s mother dying doesn’t make the death of a dog any less sad! That was my point, TS. Just because someone else has it worse, doesn’t mean what you have isn’t bad. The fact that you think the poor in America doesn’t matter because they “have it worse” in Africa makes me sick to my stomach.. seriously. I wish you could meet the poor in your own backyard and you’d see how very wrong you have it.
If anything happened to my dog and someone tried to tell me someone else has it worse because a person died, I’d probably kick that person in the face.
Jasper, I’m sorry I was rude. I didn’t know you were kidding. Completely my bad.
Josephine,
When was the last time you got a homeless person out of the cold for a night? I did it last year. When was the last time you saw a homeless person and stopped to buy them a new pair of shoes? I did last year. How about seeking out a homeless person and buying them a coat? I did last year. But that doesn’t mean that it isn;t obvious to me how well of these people were compared to the hell on earth that Afica’s poor and orphans live through.
And if your dog and a person you didn’t know got hit by a car would you disregard your dog and give your full attention to the person if they needed your help?
TS, I give money to the homeless every single day. EVERY single day. :) So, please, don’t try this “when was the last time I” stuff. I donate winter clothes every year when it’s about to get chilly, and I donate money YEAR round.
And TS, it depends on the severity of the injuries. I’m a medic. I am bound to help a person that needs help. I could get in trouble if I didn’t, technically. If it looked like the person just got banged up but my dog was going to die… you can bet your butt my dog would be my first priority. Not just my dog, any dog.. If it looked like the person was actually hurt, my hands would be tied.
I don’t see what that has to do with ANYTHING though. Will you explain the relevance? Because I’m not seeing it.
Josephine, do you ever go out and give of yourself to these homeless by seeking them out and helping them personally? Giving money is not the same thing.
Josephine, do you ever go out and give of yourself to these homeless by seeking them out and helping them personally? Giving money to others so they can seek them out and help them is not the same thing.
Posted by: Josephine at December 31, 2008 2:39 AM
Sounds like if you weren’t worried about getting in trouble as a medic, you’d rather help the dog. Are you a vegetarian?
TS, I live right by Chicago. I don’t have to seek them out, they’re EVERYWHERE. So no, I give money directly, not just through organizations.
I’d rather help the dog if it was in a worse condition, like I said. If the person is conscious and knows they’re hurt.. they can help themselves. A dog can’t. It’s helpless… it can’t call a vet.
??
Fredrick mumblin’ ’bout the white man?
Africans are more pro-life and anti-gay than multiculturalist white western liberal guilt sufferers, by far.
Go figure. ;-)
TS, I live right by Chicago. I don’t have to seek them out, they’re EVERYWHERE. So no, I give money directly, not just through organizations.
Posted by: Josephine at Dec 31, 2008 10:22 AM
Josephine, you still don’t get what I am asking. When I say do you give of yourself I am not referring to giving money, I am referring to giving your time and efforts directly to the poor. For example, these cold homeless people you see everywhere, have you ever taken them off the street and given them shelter?
TS, I’m a girl. A ridiculously tiny girl, to be exact. Do you think it would be a safe decision to, let’s say, drive anyone somewhere? Seriously? I give money. You can get cabs and food with money. There’s really no greater help.
Ah Josephine, but that is where you may want to rethink your direction in life. Money is NOT the “greatest” help. Giving of yourself and your time directly to caring for the poor is the “greatest” help. Money cannot replace personal compassion and tender care, which is the “greatest” help by far. An ill person would rather have a friend than a million dollars. How can I help you see this?