“Abort Obama not the unborn” sign invokes Secret Service call
UPDATE, 2/20, 9:20a: Here’s video of the disputed sign as well as an interview with sign owner Chip Harrison…
[HT: Fran at Illinois Review]
_______________
2/19, 5p: This is rich. Aborting preborn babies is not killing. It is a sacred right. But mention you’d like to abort Obama, and law enforcement considers it a threat to his life. Reported NewsOK today:
The police officers who stopped Oklahoma City motorist Chip Harrison and confiscated a sign from his car told him he has a right to his beliefs, but the U.S. Secret Service “could construe this as a threat against President Obama,” according to the incident report released this morning.
The sign, which read “Abort Obama Not the Unborn,” was returned to Harrison later that day….
Police spokesman Steve McCool said this morning that the sign was taken in error, and Oklahoma City residents should not be worried that their First Amendment rights will be violated. He said a supervisor “intervened and quickly returned the sign” after Harrison called the police department….
Harrison, who could not be reached for comment this morning, told the officers that in his opinion the words “Abort Obama” meant to impeach him. He told the officers he does not believe in abortion because he is a Christian….
But his run-in with the law wasn’t over yet….
”When I was on my way there, the Secret Service called me and said they weren’t going to ransack my house or anything … they just wanted to (walk through the house) and make sure I wasn’t a part of any hate groups.”…
He said they interviewed him for about 30 minutes and then left, not finding any evidence Harrison was a threat to the president.
”I’m still in contact with a lawyer right now,” Harrison said. “I don’t know what I’m going to do.”
Harrison said he feels his First Amendment rights were violated.
McCool said the officer who pulled over Harrison misinterpreted the sign.
”We had an officer that his interpretation of the sign was different than what was meant,” McCool said. “You’ve got an officer who had a different thought on what the word ‘abort’ meant.”…
This just goes to show everyone innately knows what the word “abortion” really means.
[HT: MichelleMalkin.com via moderator Carder]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
This is very interesting! Police links posted the story too: http://www.policelink.com/news/articles/96617-okc-officer-stops-driver-seizes-anti-obama-sign
It’s really scary that they went through his home just because of a bumper sticker!
Of course, it’s a bit odd that we don’t have a “right to privacy” when we make a political statement, but we do when we are killing our children.
Good to know.
Yes, your right Lauren, we can certinly kill a fetus before it is born but once its born you cannot kill it (if your not an abortionist that is). Women get charged for murder when they commit their own infanticide or abortions but it is okay for a licenced, “safe” abortionist to do that………..
Wait……..that sounds a little messed up!
To mutilate a preborn baby is legal but it’s illegal to desecrate a corpse or a grave. :(
There was some lady in East Texas who was phoned by an campaign worker seeking support for the Obama campaign. The lady told the campaign worker there was no way she would vote for Obama because of his positions on the critical issues of the day, abortion being one of the most important to her.
Next thing she knows the Secret Sevice showed up at her house.
It seems the lady displeased the campaign worker and the next thing you know, she is being accused of threatening the life of then candidate Obama.
Line from ‘Men In Black’. “The FBI does not have a sense of humor that we are aware of mam.”
Some people are more equal than others.
yor bro ken
“This just goes to show everyone innately knows what the word “abortion” really means.”
Very powerful conclusion, Jill.
“Of course, it’s a bit odd that we don’t have a “right to privacy” when we make a political statement, but we do when we are killing our children.”
great point Lauren.
“This just goes to show everyone innately knows what the word “abortion” really means.”
oh, of course they do Jill.
they want their cake and eat it too.
Looks like the Secret Service understands all too well what “abort” means and took that to mean that the President’s life was in danger. Any threat to the president is taken seriously. What did you expect?
Mary 7:38PM
This is a different Mary.
I thought abortion was about choosing, not killing. Maybe someone was just indicating that Obama was their “choice”.
I’ve always believed abortion is wrong, and especially late term abortions. As medical care improves babies are being saved that not so long ago would not have survived.
I’ve been following the blog about Kayleigh Freeman who weighed just one pound one oz at birth. Her parents are devout Christians and their story is so inspiring.
I thought others here would be touched by her story.
http://kayleighannefreeman.blogspot.com/
Can there be any doubt that abortion is murder, but especially from six months pregnancy and beyond?
Here’s another miraculous story:
http://journalstar.com/articles/2009/02/18/news/nebraska/doc499c0df4216b7064849607.txt
Quadruplets that were born almost 4 months early celebrate their 1st birthday.
I will try to be serious for a change.
I have african-american friends who did not vote for Obama.
(I am being serious. I am not makign a funny.)
They cautioned me to be careful what I say about the President around ‘black’ people I do not know. They were concerned for my physical well being.
I know what the sign meant. It was a political statement. I agree with the message. Bring the Obama administration to an end prematurely. Nixon’s administration ended prematurely.
I would not have put that sign on my car, because I do not want to have repair my car or purchase a new one.
Even with health insurance I still do not want to have to be treated in the emergency room for injuries I might sustain from people with short fuses.
I have better things to spend my money on than attorneys fees.
yor bro ken
Great bumper sticker! Where do I get one (or 100) ??
It’s amazing that free speech really means free ticket to harrassment.
Chip, great bumper sticker.
Holy smokes.
And I posted Nobama could be the anti-christ because he calls himself a man of Christian faith and boldly declares that the unborn have no inherent life deserving of rights. This is completely against the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus himself was conveived by the power of the Holy Spirit and thus the inherent value of his life was with him from conception.
“The angel proclaimed God’s message to Mary. And she conveived by the power of the Holy Spirit.”
Wow. For someone who is pro-life and who thinks abortion is the taking of human-life, to suggest that by name someone who is actually alive (not theoretically, as in the case of a fetus)….thats just immensly stupid. Go secret service!!!
YLT: The unborn child IS ALIVE. I felt my oldest niece hiccup in the womb before she was born. A baby moves around in the womb (kicking for instance) before birth.
The bumper sticker should have been written a little differently, though.
Ummm…. Liz you can belive what you want for your own reproductive system. Next thing you know people will make going to the doctor at all a crime…faith-healing for everyone!
Oh and who is paying for the under two pound kid? prob. the government. i’m fine and good with that, but I don’t know how a conservative who doesn’t like government healthcare can stomach government footing the bills for what is going to be a long hard slog of a life.
@ Posted by: kbhvac at February 19, 2009 7:04 PM
Can you prove that? I ask because I once heard the same story (ish) only it was about McCain. It sounds just like a rumor.
Rick, our free speech has restrictions. It would still if Bush were in office. (And maybe, if you want to get into free speech, we should talk about Bush okay-ing telepohne eavesdropping???)
Josephine, here’s a link.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6043299.html
No one can “prove” what happened because the conversation was apparently not taped. I heard the woman who got the unexpected SS visit speaking about it either on the radio or TV. If my memory is correct, she said she was fortunate that she had witnesses who overheard her side of the conversation, otherwise she may have found herself in serious trouble.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at Feb 19, 2009 11:11 PM
Tengo, it is not abortion but personal responsibility that is needed here. Women should learn to keep their legs closed more often and men who get women pregnant need to be held responsible. Government’s role is supposed to be caring for orphans and not to care for the children of neglectful parents. We need to live in a society where people are held responsible for their actions. Planned Parenthood should be teaching parents that sacrificing the lives of their offspring is not a good choice. Nobody has the roght to judge another human life as dispensable. And they should be given literature that contains photos of a baby at the same gestational age as the one they are aborting. That would do more to stop abortion then birth control.
Ummm Truthie….I think manners, common-sense and not-theatening public officials with (what the sign-maker believes) is death, He’s the one who said that the president should be aborted. Not a fetus, an actual living human being – the freaking president!
You know what would stop abortions..more contraception.
Why haven’t you posted a blog with any information on the NORTH DAKOTA House of Representatives passing a personhood bill?
This is a pretty big deal!
Are you so opposed to personhood Jill that you refuse to acknowledge any personhood victory in the US government anywhere?
http://www.personhoodnorthdakota.com
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/feb/09021901.html
Ezek – not enough time yesterday. Trying to get to it.
As Yo La Tengo pointed out, the sign was made by someone who DOES equate abortion with murder and then suggests that Obama should be aborted. Another factor to consider is the history of violence by anti-choice terrorists.
Truthseeker says:
Women should learn to keep their legs closed more often and men who get women pregnant need to be held responsible . . .
Real classy Truthseeker! Great example of slut-shaming! I especially love the fact that you omitted any similarly degrading language about the men, such as that they should learn to keep their johnsons in their pants.
Of course, this means that no one should ever get married or, if they do, they should insist on a celibate partnership except for those occasions when they are prepared to procreate. In other words, women should all be nuns or saints, or else resign themselves to constant pregnancy.
“The lady told the campaign worker there was no way she would vote for Obama because of his positions on the critical issues of the day, abortion being one of the most important to her.
Next thing she knows the Secret Sevice showed up at her house.”
Jasper you convientently left off the part about how the “lady” allegedly issued what could be taken as a death threat.
They cautioned me to be careful what I say about the President around ‘black’ people I do not know. They were concerned for my physical well being.
I know what the sign meant. It was a political statement. I would not have put that sign on my car, because I do not want to have repair my car or purchase a new one.
Posted by: kbhvac at February 19, 2009 9:27 PM
Hey Ken too bad no one warned me about Republicans. The day after I put a “Hockey Moms for Obama” sticker on my vehicle, a tire was slashed.
(I don’t know if they were black Republicans though)
Sorry, both those comments should have been for Ken.
(sorry Jasper)
YLT 10:52PM
Aren’t we told time and again that abortion is a “choice”, its got nothing to do with killing?
Josephine 11:59PM
I’m all for selective eavesdropping where it prevents acts of terror. It might be your life Josie that ends up being saved. Do you really think the gov’t has the means and desire to listen in on every one of our conversation?
PC,
Abort Obama can also mean end his presidency and get him out of office.
Also, who are the antichoice terrorists and exactly what is their history?
Asitis 7:10am
How do you know for certain is was Republicans who slashed your tire?
Aren’t we told time and again that abortion is a “choice”, its got nothing to do with killing?
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 7:27 AM
Mary, I think the point is that the person who put the bumper stcket on their car is pro-life. To them abortion is the same as killing a born person. For THEM to say abort Obama means kill Obama. (For anyone else to say it makes no sense because obabma is obviously already born)
Some definitions of abort:
To develop incompletely, to remain in rudimentary state
To fail, cease, or stop at an early or premature stage
To terminate before completion
So…its entirely possible that “Abort Obama” had nothing to do with actually killing Obama, but rather getting him out of office.
PC,
Abort Obama can also mean end his presidency and get him out of office.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 7:33 AM
Well, in that case the sticker should have read “Abort the Obama Presidency Not the Unborn”
Asitis 7:37am
The driver stated his bumper sticker was meant to call for the impeachment or Obama. This would fit in one of the above defintions of “abort”.
Asitis 7:10am
How do you know for certain is was Republicans who slashed your tire?
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 7:36 AM
I don’t know for certain, but it’s a bit of a coincidence…. given that I had JUST put the sticker on my car. Afterward friends told me that you are risking something like that happening. Never occurred to me coming from Canada. Lesson learned. Funny thing is one of my friends said, given the vehicle I drive, I’m a target for sure because they’d be thinking hey wait, she should be one of us! I guesss I should be driving a Smart Car or a VW van!
Asitis 7:37am
The driver stated his bumper sticker was meant to call for the impeachment or Obama. This would fit in one of the above defintions of “abort”.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 7:46 AM
If that’s what he REALLY meant then it should have been written as “Abort the Obama Presidency Not the Unborn”.
But maybe he wanted to keep it vague and have an out if challenged…………
Oh, for crying out loud
Asitis, 7:41am
Obama is the Obama Presidency.
He’s also Obama the man.
That’s funny… Obama’s the man!
C’mon Mary…. Are you really trying to argue that the bumper sticker guy wasn’t INTENTIONALLY leaving it open for interpretation??????
Asitis 7:47am
I’m very sorry something like this happened but let’s face it, this is something anyone with a switchblade could do for whatever perverse “reason” they see fit.
Asitis 7:47am
I’m very sorry something like this happened but let’s face it, this is something anyone with a switchblade could do for whatever perverse “reason” they see fit.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 7:54 AM
Sure Mary. But it’s funny it happened once I put the sticker on (in the thick of the election) and never before to me.
Asitis 7:53am
Where did I argue that?
I’m saying “Abort Obama” need not have anything to do with killing Obama since the word abort need not have anything to do with killing. After all its your side that argues this is a “choice” and is not about killing.
Hey Ken,
It is not quite so cut and dry in the incident with the secret service in East Texas.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/secretservice.asp
We may never know exactly what she said, as all we have to go on is her word and that of the campaign worker, but the incident is apparently under investigation.
And Jill, must you always be so melodramatic, using a photo of LA SWAT team members in full tactical gear to illustrate this story about sign confiscated by an ordinary Oklahoma City police officer and returned shortly afterward, and a few followup questions by secret service members, whom he invited into his house? It’s not like anyone was ramming down doors or shooting tear gas or pointing guns at suspects’ faces.
It is the job of the secret service to follow up on possible threats to the president’s life. Given the circumstances, I don’t believe they acted unreasonably in either of these cases, in which, again, nobody was ever arrested.
Asitis 7:56am
The point is you have no idea who did this so you can’t say for sure they were Republicans.
Whoever they were they were nothing more than thugs.
I’ve had a tire slashed and I didn’t even have a bumper sticker.
Ray,
What was the threat to the president? Abortion is about choosing, not killing, remember?
Asitis 7:53am
Where did I argue that?
I’m saying “Abort Obama” need not have anything to do with killing Obama since the word abort need not have anything to do with killing. After all its your side that argues this is a “choice” and is not about killing.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 7:59 AM
Mary, it seems to me that everyone is interpreting this as to mean that he wants to kill Obama (or have him killed). So he left it open for interpretation…. Surely you can see this. You’re smart.
And as for abort meaning kill, that’s what it means to prolifers. I have already expplained this though I think it’s pretty obvious! Here it is again:
Aren’t we told time and again that abortion is a “choice”, its got nothing to do with killing?
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 7:27 AM
Mary, I think the point is that the person who put the bumper stcket on their car is pro-life. To them abortion is the same as killing a born person. For THEM to say abort Obama means kill Obama. (For anyone else to say it makes no sense because obabma is obviously already born)
Posted by: asitis at February 20, 2009 7:37 AM
Ray,
What was the threat to the president? Abortion is about choosing, not killing, remember?
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 8:03 AM
Not to prolifers Mary. And isn’t bumper sticker guy a prolifer?
Kristen 8:02am
Several years ago someone put a plastic grenade outside the local abortion mill. Our local paper howled it had to be PL people and how we should conduct ourselves more responsibly.
I pointed out that this was a stunt any junior high school student could pull and if the paper knew for certain it was PL people who did this then they must know who the people are that pulled this stunt.
I said I hope you folks at the paper have done your civic duty and reported these people to the police.
Never did hear.
I’ve had a tire slashed and I didn’t even have a bumper sticker.
Posted by: Kristen at February 20, 2009 8:02 AM
Maybe you just live in a bad neighbourhood…. or are a bad driver Kristen. ;)
Asitis 8:08am
To pro-lifers abortion or aborting can mean ending an unborn life. It also means terminating prematurely, such as someone’s term in office. I have used the word “abort” to mean terminate something other than a life.
I use the term “incomplete abortion” all the time to designate a miscarriage.
Asitis 8:08am
To pro-lifers abortion or aborting can mean ending an unborn life. It also means terminating prematurely, such as someone’s term in office. I have used the word “abort” to mean terminate something other than a life.
I use the term “incomplete abortion” all the time to designate a miscarriage.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 8:13 AM
Mary! You’re talking out the side of your mouth. Prolifers say abortion is killing. They say it is murder. That is what this guy left open for interpretation.
YLT says “Not a fetus, an actual living human being”
Ok, seriously this ignorance has got to stop. A fetus is an actual,living human being. It’s not a “potential” human or a “theoretical” human, it’s a human being at an early stage of development.
Lauren,
I’ve called YLT out and this before and unlike Josephine, he/she was not willing to offer any sort of evidence or any reason to back his/her claim. Just more dogmatic pro-choice anti-science rhetoric opposed to logic and reason.
I just don’t get it. Is there a human fairy who comes down and flips a switch and then BAM we’re human some time well after conception?
Is our humanity based on our development. Can we lose our humanity if we fall below a certian mark? Can animals gain humanity if they are superior to us at certain times during our lifespan? Is YLT on crack?
Such questions that will never be answered…
I’m all for selective eavesdropping where it prevents acts of terror. It might be your life Josie that ends up being saved. Do you really think the gov’t has the means and desire to listen in on every one of our conversation?
YOu really can’t be for AND against privacy. We can’t go around claiming they’re violating HER privacy, but listening on the phone: that’s okay. By the way, what selective acts of terrorism has phone eavesdropping prevented?
I’m saying “Abort Obama” need not have anything to do with killing Obama since the word abort need not have anything to do with killing. After all its your side that argues this is a “choice” and is not about killing.
Ah, see, we should have the choice to kill the President. Good idea…. that makes total sense.
I just don’t get it. Is there a human fairy who comes down and flips a switch and then BAM we’re human some time well after conception?
Posted by: Lauren at February 20, 2009 8:46 AM
Maybe that’s what YLT’s religion believes. Makes about as much sense as a guy loading two of every kind of animal into a big boat. c):)
Prochoicer, men should learn to keep their johnsons in their pants more often and women who get pregnant through consensual sex should be held responsible for their actions.
TS, what about women that get pregnant through rape? When it’s totally not their fault?
Josephine,
In my eyes their is not the same responsibility factor without consent.
Prochoicer, where do you stand on the issue of informed choice? Do you think women should be shown a picture a baby at the gestational stage of her baby as part of her abortion decision-making process? Maybe included as part of the literature that is handed out to her.
So is abortion okay in the case of rape to you, TS? Since it’s not the same responsibility.
Hi Asitis,
While I have you here, I think I solved this tax argument, turns out we were both right.
My accountant said I would have to work 113 days to cover all of state and fed, and local.
That comes to about 3 and half to 4 FULL months, working every day straight without a break. I think you were figuring in those terms.
A working month for me, comes out to around 20 days a month, give or take, so this would stretch out to about 6 working months for me. I was thinking my actual working months, which believe me is not going to be 113 straight days(!), and I think your were figuing the full month.
You were correct about the full months and I was correct about my actual working months.
Asitis, 8:23am
Hardly. Abort can also mean “terminate” to a PL person as well as to anyone else. When I used the term missed abortion I’m not talking of the deliberate effort to end a pregnancy, though a non-medical person may interpret it as such and I’m very careful about using that term around a patient. I can say something is aborted, again having nothing to do with ending life.
Maybe what you need to do Asitis is stop assuming PL people only use the word “abort” to denote killing. It does mean to terminate prematurely, which is very well what this man could have meant with his bumper sticker.
When you use the term “race” are you always referring to the horses or to someone’s skin color?
Couldn’t “to terminate Obama prematurely” also mean to kill him, since he is only in his 40’s?
Josephine 9:20am
I understand eavesdropping prevented those British terrorists from blowing up American bound airliners over the ocean.
How many acts of terror have occured in this country since 9/11? Do you think maybe a few have likely been prevented because of eavesdropping?
The gov’t isn’t likely to waste time and resources listening to me talk to my mother. If you have anything to worry about Josie its more likely private investigators who will listen in on your conversations, not to mention miniature cameras.
Josephine, how many times must I say that the term “abort” can mean simply to end something prematurely. It does not have to refer to loss of life. I would love to see Obama’s term, i.e. him, aborted, the sooner the better. I in NO advocate killing Obama.
Josephine 9:39am
It can mean whatever you want to see Josie. I would only see this as ending his term prematurely, NOT his life.
I would be the first to condemn anyone arguing his life should be ended. If I heard what I thought to be serious threats to the president’s life, I would report them.
But Mary, it doesn’t say, “Abort Obama’s presidency” …it says, “Abort Obama”. Again, it it means to “end prematurely”… well, to “end Obama prematurely” sure still sounds like “kill” to me.
Has Biden’s boss the glob, hunk of tissue that plays basketball decided if he is living?
Josephine,
Again its how you want to look at it. I just see end Obama, which could just as easily mean end his presidency, his rule.
So is abortion okay in the case of rape to you, TS? Since it’s not the same responsibility.
Posted by: Josephine at February 20, 2009 9:27 AM
I would not call a women who aborted because of rape “irresponsible”. Responsibility isn’t the only issue involved but consent carries responsibility.
Truthseeker,
I responded to your question as follows at the end of another thread and will reproduce that answer here:
Truthseeker,
You asked whether women seeking abortion should be shown pictures of the gestational age of the embryo or fetus.
It really depends on the individualized needs of the woman. If this information is important to the woman, of course she should have a chance to learn about embryonic and fetal development. If she is expressing doubt about whether to have an abortion, it would be appropriate to inquire whehter fetal development is an issue for her. If not, presumably she has already thought about the fact that she is preventing the existence of a baby from coming to term.
I question why prolifers are so eager to have women look at these pictures? Is there any evidence that such pictures would change women’s minds, rather than make them feel comfortable with the decision to abort? Most ultrasounds and pictures of early term embryos or fetuses don’t look like much.
Mary asked: Also, who are the antichoice terrorists and exactly what is their history?
The first example that came to my mind was the Olympic Park Bomber, Eric Rudolph, who cited his opposition to abortion and homosexuality as the motivation for his attack. I also recall when I lived in Boston in the late 80s and early 90s an incident in which a man walked into an abortion clinic and shot the receptionist (and perhaps also a couple more employees). The following article lists other violence and threats against abortion clinics and their workers:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm
The point isn’t that this guy was necessarily violent. But it would be reasonable for the Secret Service to consider the fact that opposition to abortion has motivated many people to commit violent or threatening acts. That combined with the wording of the sign (which implied the death of Obama) would raise a red flag in the mind of a reasonable person.
Re:Mary at February 20, 2009 9:27 AM
Mary, I was never talking about number of days. I was talking about what percentage of your gross income went to taxes and then multiplied 12 months by that perecentage.
You are claiming that your overall tax rate (fed, state and local taxes) is 50%. You need a new accountant.
Maybe what you need to do Asitis is stop assuming PL people only use the word “abort” to denote killing. It does mean to terminate prematurely, which is very well what this man could have meant with his bumper sticker.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 9:37 AM
Sure… that’s what he meant Mary. That’s why he used it, in the way he did with “unborn”. You and I know exactly why he wrote it the way he did. Pro lifers equate abort with kill and he is a prolifer. He could have been saying “kill Obama” or he could have been saying “terminate the Obama Presidency”. He left in open for interpretation. And I supect he did this intentionally. He got called on it and now he’s say “What???????”
End of story.
Asitis,
No, he said 28% of the year pays taxes and that includes state, fed, SS, FICA, etc. and that did not include local. By the way that was a typo. It was 109 with local, 102 without. I know you didn’t say days, we did talk though in number of months. You thought it would come to under four, and you were correct, I figured it would take up to six months to pay given the number of days I work per month and that’s fairly close, give or take.
No way will I get a new acct. This is the first refund I’ve gotten in years! However, the state is holding out its mitt!:P
So if it’s 28%, how do you figure you are working half the year to pay your taxes?
PC
Eric Rudolph was a lunatic who seemed to oppose a lot, abortion only being one such thing. If he was PL he wouldn’t be setting nail bombs with the intention of killing people for whatever warped reason he saw fit. I felt he deserved the chair and am sorry he didn’t get it.
The article points out some violence and death, but not all are acts of violence or one where people are actually harmed. There’s certainly nothing like Columbine. I would think high school students in this country are at greater risk, certainly more have been gunned down. Our local HS has had bomb threats. Any lunatic can call in threats and harassment.
Again, the man has said that to him “Abort Obama” meant to impeach him. The police admit they were mistaken in taking the bumper sticker.
The point is he said nothing about “killing” anyone. He used the term “abort” and one can interpret that anyway they want. The word has various meanings.
As I mentioned I have had to be careful at work how I use the term “missed abortion” since again, it can be easily misconstrued.
You know what was funny about the video clip? The the police officer (who I’m assuming is “pro-choice” or he probably wouldn’t have had a problem with the sign) is the one who said abortion means to kill and the pro-life person is saying “No, it means to terminate or remove.”
I just thought that was ironic considering many abortion proponents say it’s not murder.
Asitis,
The man has said he meant it as “impeach Obama”, end his presidency. The police admitted they made a mistake in even making an issue of this and assured the community there is no threat to First Amendment rights.
The word “abort” has various meanings and one can interpret it any way they want, that’s one of the reasons I am very careful as to how I use the term missed abortion at work, especially around a woman who is having a miscarriage.
End of story.
oh, I know what he “said” the sign meant Mary!
Asitis 1:35PM
My acct. said 102 days for fed and state. I tacked on another 7 days to pay local. That’s 109 days of taxes total. In a six month period, at 20 days/month(give or take) I will work 120 days, so at 109 days I will be 11 days short of six months.
Going by the days he gave me, if I want to work non stop for a little over three months I could pay off that way too. NO thanks.
Again, this is taxable income, after pre-tax deductions are removed.
Kristen 2:04PM
Great point. The driver could well have been a PC person who doesn’t like Obama and thinks “abort” has nothing to do with killing, but rather to remove what is unwanted.
LOL this argument is totally retarded. The OKC police likely took the sign way too heavily, but the most that happened to the guy was it was taken away for a while and he was asked a few questions. Like that stuff never happened under the Bush presidency!
Something I must say about the thread following ts’s comments. I think that the reason there is such a standstill is because our political climate has polarized the sides too much. The radical pro-choice says abortion is practically nothing, and I think that leaves a mentality (like JM has said) that leads to irresponsibility regarding sexual practices (“oh well I can always get an abortion”) or a glibness about its gravity. Even if you are “pro-choice” you don’t have to embrace the idea that the baby was never ‘alive’ or ‘human’ and instead contribute to a culture in which abortion is something to be avoided and birth control is something to take seriously.
PIP,
I agree, only I would add the whole situation was asinine. I’ve seen some pretty raunchy and even violence promoting bumper stickers in my day and this is the first I’ve heard of police pulling anyone over for one!
I can only say it must be nice to live in such a crime free environment that police officers need only concern themselves with bumper stickers.
My acct. said 102 days for fed and state.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 2:27 PM
Mary, you just said he told you your overall tax rate for state and fed taxes was 28%. How does that come to 102 WORKING days if you work 240 days per year (20/month)??????????
Mary, welcome to Oklahoma! :)
Asitis,
His exact words:
28% of the year to cover s/s medicare, federal and state or 102 days.
Asitis,
His exact words:
28% of the year to cover s/s medicare, federal and state or 102 days.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 4:42 PM
Well, Mary he must be referring to calendar days then, not your working days. 28% of 365 days is 102 days. That’s 102 days of the year. (Not 102 days of work). That’s about 3 and a half months which as happens to be what I had estimated would be your case.
If you want to calculate the days of work, it would be 28% of 240 working days/year. That’s 67 working days. At 20 working days/month that’s.. again…. 3 and a half months. Hey, funny how that works out.
So you will be working for roughly 3 and a half calendar months (at 20 day/month or whatever you work)to pay you taxes. Not 7 months as you originally claimed. Not 6 months as you are claiming now.
Do you get this?
Posted by: asitis at February 20, 2009 7:10 AM
They cautioned me to be careful what I say about the President around ‘black’ people I do not know. They were concerned for my physical well being.
I know what the sign meant. It was a political statement. I would not have put that sign on my car, because I do not want to have repair my car or purchase a new one.
Posted by: kbhvac at February 19, 2009 9:27 PM
Hey Ken too bad no one warned me about Republicans. The day after I put a “Hockey Moms for Obama” sticker on my vehicle, a tire was slashed.
(I don’t know if they were black Republicans though)
————————————————————
My bad, sort of.
I only repeated to you what my friend (who is not a republican or a democrat, but who did NOT vote for Obama) cautioned me about.
He is not just brown, he is dark brown, almost black. He could pass for african. I love him like a son. He spends almost as much time at my house as he does at home. He is my son’s best friend.
You know how unihibitedly I write. I speak with the same freedom. My friend is in college with african americans who are very protective of the first black president.
He was offerring me sound advise based on information I had no access to.
My friend is not a racist and neither am I.
Don’t you remember the recent press conference where the lady had the temerity to ask President Obama a hard question. The crowd booed her just for asking a legitimate question.
As for your sign and your slashed tire. I thought your lived in Canada.
Maybe the vandals just didn’t like hockey or they had unresolved issues with their own hockey mom or maybe they didn’t like hockey moms for Obama comin to the states and meddlin in our politics or maybe they were upset because your kids team whupped theirs.
But here is a challenege. Next time you are out and about down in the states wade in amongst some people of color and make some disparaging remarks about President Obama’s policies and see what kind of response you get. Get some body to videotape the event surreptitiously. I want to see the outcome.
But you cannot say you were not forewarned.
yor bro ken
Posted by: Fed Up at February 20, 2009 1:34 AM
Fed up,
Thanks for covering for me. I heard several interviews with the lady.
“he said/she said”
There is more to the story. When the lady made an effort to identify from the local campaign office had called her no luck and the person in charge had been tranferred that very day.
Filing a false police report, especially to the feds is a major no-no. Might even be a felony.
This is the ‘chicago machine’ style of politics.
Just go to to the Silent No More web site or Youtube and hear some of the testimony of Texas Democrats who where Hilary supporters. These are democrats complaining about democrats.
yor bro ken
ken, I live in the states …. I moved here from canada 4.5 years ago though so maybe that’s the confusion…. Plus the fact that I am more of a hockey mom than palin ever was! I liked your hockey comments!
I actually voted in November for the first time EVER! (I am American by birth)
I can only say it must be nice to live in such a crime free environment that police officers need only concern themselves with bumper stickers.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 3:46 PM
————————————————————
Mary,
Oklahoma City is where the Murrah Federal Building was located. The on that Tim McVeigh destroyed with a truck bomb.
It has been a while but that is something the local police will not quickly or easily forget.
My take is Harrison should have exercised more wisdom, and the police officer should have exercised more restraint. The SS was just practicing due diligence.
Speech is free but you are responsible for how and what you say.
Harrison got a lot more exposure than he ever imagined from a crudely made handwritten placard in his rear window. The other thing he has now is a permanent record with the Secret Service. In the days of heightene securtiy it may cause him some difficulty if he has to pass a background check.
yor bro ken
Ken, I always knew I liked you!
PCer @ 12:50 PM:
I’ve read that many abortion vulnerable women actually chose AGAINST abortion when they get to see their child on screen, especially when they are able to view the child via a 3D or 4D ultrasound. They realize how developed their child is (I guess many don’t know that a baby has arms and legs and a heart beat that early).
I’d say if I had to estimate, that at least 70% probably change their mind.
That’s why PP doesn’t ALWAYS let a woman see the screen; they’re afraid to lose the business (blood money).
Like the quote of the day either yesterday or Wednesday — a woman in Canada whose ‘doctor’ put a dot on a piece of paper in answer to her question about the baby’s development: saying that’s what the baby was like. It wasn’t until she had a later pregnancy that she realized her child had been well developed and wasn’t a “dot”.
Asitis,
Maybe it had ALSO had something to do with the way you drive.
You’re not one of those people who believe that they can talk on the cell phone and drive with absolutely no impairment,….are you?
You know, the one who’s always the lead car in what looks like a funeral procession going down the freeway, usually in the far left lane, blissfully unaware of the convoy amassed behind you.
There is no gender bias in this question. Both women and men are equally afflicted.
I’m in the bubbamobile, a safe and repsponsible five full SUV lengths behind, flashing my lights, honking my horm and yes, shaking my tightly clenched fist (absolutety no stray finger protruding), and speaking pleasant thoughts over you and your car and even your designer communicator. It’s not just a cell phone. It is a ‘fashion accessory.
But I don’t want to slash your tires…..
I want to push the button on my double ought spy phone jammer and turn your fashion accessory into a moltem glob of plastic permanently attached to your ear like some sort of new wave handsfree device.
And I don’t care if you still have the ‘Ronald Reagan for President’ or ‘Jesus is my co-pilot’, or ‘Poodle on Board, bumber sticker on your car.
The only saving grace in this scenario is that though I am forced to watch your conversation, I don’t have to actually ‘hear’ your conversation.
‘Don’t Mess With Texas’ ‘Drive Friendly”
yor bro ken
ps: all of the preceeding was purely hypothetical. These things never really happen.
Ever. As far as the east is from the west.
I’d say if I had to estimate, that at least 70% probably change their mind.
Posted by: LizFromNebraska at February 20, 2009 8:13 PM
What’s this estimate based on Liz? At is that an average over all stages?
No Ken, it’s not my driving.
And I don’t talk on the phone while driving. I text instead. Kidding. ;)
Liz — I thought that I had heard that it was about 90%! And you are correct about the fact that PP keeps the screen turned away from the client. Dr. Bernard Nathanson, the former abortionist, said that it was the ultrasound technology that changed his mind.
Eileen#2: I wasn’t sure of the exact %, that’s why I was estimating. You’re right, it is closer to 90%.
When a woman is given factual information on a baby’s development (heart beat, brain waves, etc) including being allowed to see the ultrasound, the women who are abortion vulnerable are more likely to change their minds. Some are amazed about the development since they are lied to and told “its just a blood clot, its just a piece of tissue”.
The women who are more likely to change their minds are the ones that probably see the Ultrasound at a CPC, since the screen is never turned away from them there.
But here is a challenege. Next time you are out and about down in the states wade in amongst some people of color and make some disparaging remarks about President Obama’s policies and see what kind of response you get. Get some body to videotape the event surreptitiously. I want to see the outcome.
But you cannot say you were not forewarned.
Posted by: kbhvac at February 20, 2009 7:07 PM
Ken, maybe I should also wade into a poor rural area where they “cling to their guns and religion” and start talking about how great Obama and his policies are. Do you think the video tapes will be much different Ken? If so why?
PC,
Type Blessing into Search. Click on Blessing’s Photo Adopted post. Blessing is Bethany’s baby that she miscarried at 6 weeks.
THAT is what a baby looks like just after a woman finds out she is pregnant!!
Oaky Liz and Eileen, where does this figure of 90% come from?
Rick, our free speech has restrictions. It would still if Bush were in office. (And maybe, if you want to get into free speech, we should talk about Bush okay-ing telepohne eavesdropping???)
Posted by: Josephine at February 19, 2009 11:59 PM
————————————————–
Josie,
You are correct there were/are laws in this country controlling domestice surveilence, wiretapping eavesdropping, etc.
One way our federal intelligence agencies circumvented those laws was to enter into reciprocal agreements with our ‘cold war’ allies. They ‘monitored’ our citzens phone and electronic conversations and we ‘monitored’ their citizens conversations, then the different parties share the information. The program was called ‘Eschalon’. (There is facility up near Blaine, Washington in close proximity to the Canadian Border that is a listening post.)
Eschalon predated both the Clinton Administrations and continued after he left office. So the nefariousu activity you attributed to Bush was not his alone.
You should assume and keep in the back of your mind that all of your phone conversations are subject to monitoring.
It is all very sophisticated now. They have software that listenes for certain words or phrases and gives some sort of escalating alert and when it reaches a predetermined level a living breathing human being analyzes the communication and makes a determanation whether or not to move it on up the food chain.
We do have an expectation of privacy, but we should NOT assume that it is always honored.
Uncle Sam has been a peeping tom for quite a while.
The real danger in all this is when, not if, power hunger people start abusing these systems for their own political and financial gain.
If it helps you to sleep, believing that only ‘republicans and conservatives’ are threats, then sweet dreams baby.
yor bro ken
Ken 7:34PM
The OC police are nervous? Ken, my brother was a police officer in the murder capital of the country. Drive by shootings were the norm. He didn’t waste his time pulling citizens over because of their bumper stickers.
The police acknowledged they were wrong, fine. They were.
It’s great to see a thread full of pro-aborts admitting that abortion = killing. Perhaps that is the true genius of the bumper sticker.
Posted by: asitis at February 20, 2009 9:04 PM
Ken, maybe I should also wade into a poor rural area where they “cling to their guns and religion” and start talking about how great Obama and his policies are. Do you think the video tapes will be much different Ken? If so why?
—————————————————-
Yes, Asitis,
You should do both. But do not target poor rural areas. Go to the prosperous successful people of both communities.
My friend was not warning me to stay away from crackhead alley. He was warning me about the average black man or woman. His fellow college students. He was not referring to dysfunctional people.
Approach the problem with your scientific mind, not your social political mind.
yor bro ken
ps: but I am sure just the ancedotal encounters would be enlightening and amuseing.
Asitis 5:16PM
A slight snafu. This past year I did not work those straight days(240) but overtime and freelance. The hours I worked varied each month. Some months more than others. This also put me in a higher tax bracket. It comes out to about 4.5 working, not full, months not including local taxes, which are about another 7 days pay.
Definitely a far cry from 7 months however.
Ken 9:16PM
I have no doubt the gov’t will find out whatever it darned well wants, though I find private investigators a lot more scary! Not to mention that poor woman who’s neighbor set up surveillence in her home!
Its interesting about the software detecting certain words, etc. You have to wonder how many terrorist attacks have been prevented by this.
It’s great to see a thread full of pro-aborts admitting that abortion = killing. Perhaps that is the true genius of the bumper sticker.
Posted by: John Lewandowski at February 20, 2009 10:18 PM
Not exactly John. They are just recognizing that prolifers think abortion-killing. Doesn’t mean prochoicers do.
Asitis 5:16PM
A slight snafu. This past year I did not work those straight days(240) but overtime and freelance. The hours I worked varied each month. Some months more than others. This also put me in a higher tax bracket. It comes out to about 4.5 working, not full, months not including local taxes, which are about another 7 days pay.
Definitely a far cry from 7 months however.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 10:35 PM
Mary, it doesn’t matter. 28% of the year is just over three months. Not 4.5 months. Not six months.
Ken 7:34PM
The OC police are nervous? Ken, my brother was a police officer in the murder capital of the country. Drive by shootings were the norm. He didn’t waste his time pulling citizens over because of their bumper stickers.
The police acknowledged they were wrong, fine. They were.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 9:50 PM
————————————————–
Mary,
You are probably right, but I want to believe, even contrary to my personal experiences as a prolife activist, that these officers just overreacted.
The alternative is to arrive at a unpleasant season (brown shirts and krystal nacht)a lot sooner than I would have thought.
My impression of the Police is that they tend to be a little more conservative than the population as a whole. You would not think they would have been in the Obama camp politically or socially.
I will try and call Chip Harrison tomorrow. I can probably get his phone number from directory assistance. He may be able to answer some questions that were not asked in the video clip.
yor bro ken
Ken,
I’m convinced they overreacted. They admitted as much.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 10:42 PM
I have no doubt the gov’t will find out whatever it darned well wants, though I find private investigators a lot more scary! Not to mention that poor woman who’s neighbor set up surveillence in her home!
Its interesting about the software detecting certain words, etc. You have to wonder how many terrorist attacks have been prevented by this.
——————————————————-
Mary,
This technology is like any other. It can be used for good and at the same time it can be used for bad.
It is the present reality. I have no control over it. I am not paranoid. I sleep just fine.
I am just aware. I know a retired Deputy U. S. Marshall. I think I know something ‘new’, but when I tell him, he tells me the rest of the story or at least the part he knows.
Ken,
I bet he is one interesting guy. I remember my brother’s stories. Unreal what human beings do to each other.
Speaking of strange. What about that woman and her chimp. Talk about disgusting.
I hope that poor woman wasn’t blinded.
Ken,
I’m convinced they overreacted. They admitted as much.
Posted by: Mary at February 20, 2009 10:59 PM
—————————————————–
Agreed. The motivation is the question.
I have been rousted by policemen just for carrying a sign with the photo of an intact human embryo and no text.
They say they have had a complaint and they want to see your identification and they want to tell where you can and cannot stand on the public sidewalk. They provoke or try to. They try to determine your mental state. It is a good idea for them to keep a close eye on the ones who maybe crazy. They have a difficult job.
It is just part of the process. They have a job to do, I have a job to do. If you show up on a regular basis then they get to know you and it gets better. It’s always wise to have some one with a video camera when you are onsite.
Most police officers are proffesionals.
yor bro ken
Monkey business.
I saw the headlines but it did not interest me.
Drugs and chimps. I don’t even want to go there.
Humans are stupid.
yor bro ken
Ken,
True about the police. I believe most are professional. It embittered my brother a lot though. When you see the worst the human race has to offer on a daily basis, it must get to you.
About the chimp. Yes human beings are very stupid. Animals are animals. Humans don’t respect that.
got to go.
big day tomorrow.
adios mis muchahos.
yor bro ken
Regarding the chimp incident, chimps are NOT by nature gentle creatures. The chimps we know to be chimps (bonobos are more sweetly natured) will fight quite easily if threatened for territory, food, etc. It’s irresponsible to drag an animal like that around untrained people.
Truthseeker,
I responded to your question as follows at the end of another thread and will reproduce that answer here:
Truthseeker,
You asked whether women seeking abortion should be shown pictures of the gestational age of the embryo or fetus.
It really depends on the individualized needs of the woman. If this information is important to the woman, of course she should have a chance to learn about embryonic and fetal development. If she is expressing doubt about whether to have an abortion, it would be appropriate to inquire whehter fetal development is an issue for her. If not, presumably she has already thought about the fact that she is preventing the existence of a baby from coming to term.
I question why prolifers are so eager to have women look at these pictures? Is there any evidence that such pictures would change women’s minds, rather than make them feel comfortable with the decision to abort? Most ultrasounds and pictures of early term embryos or fetuses don’t look like much.
Posted by: Prochoicer at Feb 20, 2009 12:50 PM
Prochoicer,
You said “presumably she has already thought about the fact that she is preventing the existence of a baby from coming to term”
That statement shows a lack of understanding and sensitivity to the testimonies of regretful post abortive mothers tell? The mothers who really didn’t understand the developmental stage of their babies and went to abortion centers that offered very little, or even worse sometimes flat out lies like “don’t worry, it’s just a bunch of cells”. Knowing this goes on, then why would you allow women to get exposed to abortion centers that take advantage of them by offering them less them complete information?
Does prochoice include a right-to-ignorance and denial of the truth about what you are doing when you commit abortion?
Your “presumption” that it is not needed is poven wrong by the countless women who had abortions without an informed understanding of the developemental stage of their babies. Are their any other reasons you can think of why pictures of the gestational stages of human developement should not be included as a part of the pamphlets handed out at every abortion center?
PIP 12:28am
Exactly.
PIP,
I caught a quick glimpse of an article about a matter you may be concerned with or already know about.
Apparently Amnesty Int’l is not too happy with Hillary’s cozying up to the Chinese. When I saw AI I thought of you and that this might be of interest to you.
Ken,
“If it helps you to sleep, believing that only ‘republicans and conservatives’ are threats, then sweet dreams baby.”
I have absolutely NO idea what you’re talking about. Seriously. In fact, I have no idea why that was addressed to me.
This isolated incident of police overreacting and doing something stupid , which is hardly an uncommon thing among cops, is being used disingenuously as an excuse to scare gullible conservatives into thinking that the Obama administration is out to curtail or destroy our free speech. How typical of conservatives !
You make it sound as Obama himself were responible for this ridiculous incident. I don’t agree with the sentiments expressed on the sign, but this individual and others have the right to express their opinions.
But conservatives routinely do things thAt are jusrt as bad or far worse. Recently, a science teacher at a school in Texas was removed from his job because parents were angry at his teaching evolution. There were false reports of him being an”atheist” and too”liberal” and supposedly trying to corrupt youth with his views, despite the fact that this is a repsected teacher with a spotless record. His career is at risk, and yet he done absolutely nothing wrong. He denies being an atheist, and has never tried to impose his beliefs on students.
This is just narrow-mindedness, intolerance, ignorance and hysteria on the part of some parents of students at this Texas school.
This is infinitely worse that what the police did with the driver.
Teaching evolution is not a risk to students in school. To think that this will corrupt them and turn them into godless, immoral hedonists is absolutely idiotic.
There is absolutely NO conflict between evolution an belief in god. Conservatives can be a threat to free speech too.
RB,
I agree the police overreacted and they admitted it. Leave it at that. I certainly don’t see any gov’t plot here. Maybe it was just an overzealous rookie.
Shouldn’t you be saying that to Jill, Mary?
Ken,
I have absolutely NO idea what you’re talking about. Seriously. In fact, I have no idea why that was addressed to me.
Posted by: Josephine at February 21, 2009 7:38 AM
————————————————–
1. In a earlier post you questioned the validity (said it sounded ‘rumorish’) of an incident I referred to in a news report about a Texas woman who was visited by the Secret Service after she told an Obama campaign worker why she would never voter for Obama. The campaign worker had called Texas ladies cell phone. Abortion was the first and foremost reason the Texas lady would NOT support Obama. The lady had witnesses to her side of the conversation. She claims she in no way threatened then Candidate Obama. When the Texas lady made an effor to identify who called her and then filed a false police report with the Secret Service, (‘Elvis had just left the building. Suddenly remembered his annual memorial service was that afternoon.’) the person who made the call and/or knew who made the call was not available.
It is called ‘intimidation’.
Remember Joe the Plumber. Chip Harrison is just another bit of ancedotal evidence. Did the police just notice Harrison driving down the road or did some conscientious citizen report him to the police?
2. You made a comment in the same post about wiretapping authorized by the Bush administration but you seem unaware of the fact that the federal government has been monitoring electronic communications for quite a while. The practice probably predates the Nixon administration. The Clinton administration certainly continued the practice. I am sure the Bush administration expanded the program after 911.
The fact that this monitoring occurs is troubling. But the real measure is what is done with information. Is it used for ‘political advantage’? It does not appear the Bush administration used it that way. If they did they were certainly not successful.
Will the Obama administration use it politically?
Time will tell.
Thus:
“If it helps you to sleep, believing that only ‘republicans and conservatives’ are threats, then sweet dreams baby.”
yor bro ken
Asitis 9:46am
I’m saying it for anyone who wants to read it. :)
“The fact that this monitoring occurs is troubling. But the real measure is what is done with information. Is it used for ‘political advantage’? It does not appear the Bush administration used it that way. If they did they were certainly not successful.”
Ken wasn’t it revealed recently that the Bush administration was targeting those in the media?
Ken,
Didn’t Robert Kennedy wiretap Martin Luther King?
Nothing new about gov’t spying.
Ken, 9:54am
Unfortunately, anyone can make false accusations for reasons only they see fit, especially when its just your word against theirs. Perhaps this caller was just being spiteful or had some mental issues.
IMO, Joe the Plumber did get an anal exam.
I agree the police overreacted and they admitted it. Leave it at that. I certainly don’t see any gov’t plot here. Maybe it was just an overzealous rookie.
Posted by: Mary at February 21, 2009 9:21 AM
I hear ya Mary! It’s kind of like Ray said yesterday morning:
“And Jill, must you always be so melodramatic, using a photo of LA SWAT team members in full tactical gear to illustrate this story about sign confiscated by an ordinary Oklahoma City police officer and returned shortly afterward, and a few followup questions by secret service members, whom he invited into his house? It’s not like anyone was ramming down doors or shooting tear gas or pointing guns at suspects’ faces”.
Posted by: Robert Berger at February 21, 2009 9:02 AM
‘This isolated incident of police overreacting and doing something stupid , which is hardly an uncommon thing among cops, is being used disingenuously as an excuse to scare gullible conservatives into thinking that the Obama administration is out to curtail or destroy our free speech. How typical of conservatives !’
——————————————————-
All you conservatives out there hunkered down in your bunkers, quiverin in your boots and clinging desperately to your guns and your god, flush your toilets (if you have indoor plumbin)and/or fire off a shot at exactly 10:15 so we can measure your numbers and determine just who and where you are.
yor bro ken
Oh no Ken, you’re too late to get all the ones in the “Alabama” region of PA!
Mary, speaking of falsehoods, we’ve got to stop calling Joe “the plumber”! :)
Ken wasn’t it revealed recently that the Bush administration was targeting those in the media?
Posted by: asitis at February 21, 2009 10:00 AM
—————————————————
Asitis,
I have no idea. Give us some facts. You brung it, you dance with it.
Here are suggestions for signs to test the reactions of conservative/liberal voters.
1). Impeach Governor Palin
2). Impeach President Obama
Don’t say anything, just carry the Impeach Govenor Palin sign and walk out side Governor Palins church building on Sunday Morning in Wasila Alaska and video tape the reactions.
Don’t say anything, just carry the Impeach President Obama sign and walk outside the church in chicago where Obama was a member for 20 years and video tape the reactions.
yor bro ken
Asitis,
I understand he was an apprentice plumber, not yet licensed, training under a licensed plumber. As an apprentice carpenter, my husband was not required to be licensed either but had to be once he went out on his own as a contractor.
That’s my understanding of Joe’s situation anyway.
Asitis,
You worry yourself with slappin the fleas in your tent and overlook the camel who is in the tent with you and the very source of all the fleas.
yor bro ken
Ken @10:25
Rather than make the long trip to Alaska and its cold, I’ll make a guess that I’d hear more objections to the Impeach Obama sign in Chicago than I would to an Impeach Palin sign in Wasilla. It sounds like Alaskans are less enthralled by Palin than they were.
Asitis,
You worry yourself with slappin the fleas in your tent and overlook the camel who is in the tent with you and the very source of all the fleas.
yor bro ken
Posted by: kbhvac at February 21, 2009 10:28
No, Ken I already told you… I live in the US. I have a tent, but no camel.
Asitis and Ken,
Speaking of police incidents. Around 1970 two college friends of mine were driving around our hometown, minding their own business when suddenly they were surrounded by police and forced off the road. The police had guns drawn and ordered them out of the car with their hands on the roof. My friends were totally dumbfounded, and not thinking, one of them reached to push his wallet back in his pocket. He was ordered to freeze by the police or get his head blown off. Needless to say he froze.
Anyway, turned out to be a case of mistaken identity! Two young men had just arm robbed the local theater and were escaping in a car exacty like my friends’!
Badly shaken up my friends accepted the explanation by the police, who were after all only doing their job, and left.
Now for the rest of the story…. turns out the real robbers were our senior class president and the school’s star athlete. Thankfully they hadn’t killed anyone or been killed themselves.
I think the dumb schmucks got probation or a suspended sentence, being they were otherwise such model citizens.
About 30 years later I saw Butch and Sundance at a class reunion, still hanging out together.
Oh, and one of my friends is now chief of police.
Mary, here is something about Joe’s status as a
plumber (It’s from Wikipedia, but it summarizes various findings):
“As part of the background on McCain’s use of “Joe the Plumber”, several media outlets researched his professional plumbing credentials. One Toledo Blade article stated, “Mr. Wurzelbacher said he works under Al Newell’s license, but according to Ohio building regulations, he must maintain his own license to do plumbing work. He is also not registered to operate as a plumber in Ohio, which means he’s not a plumber.” “Mr. Joseph (business manager of the local union) said Mr. Wurzelbacher could only legally work in the townships, but not in any municipality in Lucas County or elsewhere in the country.” [70]
A detailed article in Newsweek pointed out that, “Reporters working on profiles soon discovered that Wurzelbacher didn’t actually have a state or local license to work as a plumber in the Toledo area, and despite Wurzelbacher’s insistence that he didn’t need one, local officials and building inspectors in Toledo insisted he did. On Friday, those officials said a letter was being mailed to Wurzelbacher’s employer warning him to get into compliance with city codes or face the loss of the company’s license.”[71] Wurzelbacher’s former employer, A. W. Newell, is licensed by the State of Ohio and the City of Toledo.[11][18]
An MSNBC article further elaborated on the requirement for Joe to legally work, “…anyone working under Newell should have a journeyman’s plumbing license or an apprenticeship license, officials said.”[72] Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics, whose national membership endorsed Obama, stated that Wurzelbacher has not yet completed the apprentice program he began in 2003.[73]
Wurzelbacher has since stated that he is no longer employed.”
”
Asitis,
Interesting. I knew he didn’t have a license but knew he was in some kind of apprentice program, at least intially.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6043299.html
By JESSICA SAVAGE
Cox News Service
Oct. 6, 2008, 6:13PM
LUFKIN — A Lufkin woman received a surprise visit from the Secret Service last week because of a “death threat” comment she reportedly made about Sen. Barack Obama to a campaign volunteer asking for her support of the presidential candidate.
Two federal agents arrived at Jessica Hughes’ home Thursday to ask her if she said, “I will never support Obama and he will wind up dead on a hospital floor.”
Hughes said her words were deliberately twisted by a volunteer who was apparently unhappy Hughes was rude during a phone conversation. The Lufkin mother, a Republican, said she received a call on her cellphone Wednesday from a woman with the Obama Volunteers of Texarkana.
“She asked if I was an Obama supporter, to which I replied, ‘No, I don’t support him. Your guy is a socialist who voted four times in the state Senate to let little babies die in hospital closets; I think you should find something better to do with your time.’ (And then) I hung up.”
Hughes is referring to a “born alive” Illinois bill that did not pass in the Illinois state Senate in 2005 and had previously been opposed by Obama because he said it undermined Roe v. Wade, according to FactCheck.org, a non-partisan organization. A federal version of the bill, which Obama said he would have supported, passed by unanimous consent and was signed into law by President Bush in 2002.
Obama Campaign Communications for Texas director Josh Taylor declined to comment Monday, referring the matter to the Secret Service, which he said is conducting an investigation. A message left with a Secret Service agent in Houston was not immediately returned.
Hughes said she was surprised to see two Secret Service agents at her door, and upset to learn that the conversation she had with the volunteer apparently had not been recorded.
“I find it hard to believe that (campaign volunteers) don’t tape these calls. They call people unsolicited and they aren’t monitoring the calls or recording them? I think that is absolutely ridiculous,” she said. “I mean, how often must this happen – that someone is rude to a volunteer that they don’t want to talk to?”
Hughes said she wants to file a countercomplaint against the volunteer.
“She has made a charge that will follow me the rest of my life,” she said. “I find that repugnant and violating – that some person who got her undies in a bundle because she didn’t like what I had to say.”
ps: Jessica says she has witnesses to her side of the conversation.
The SS has to follow up, but the way the ‘alleged threat’ was worded is curious.
Maybe Emily Latella or Rosanna Rosanna Rosannadonna was womaning the phone bank that day.
Another example of swatting at gnats.
Do you have to have a license to ask a presidential nominee a question, even when the nominee initiates the conversation.
And even if you are a registered sex offender, should your question be disallowed and you subject to an colonoscopy, not just by the media, but by hostile members of the state beuracracy?
Joe the man, doing plumbing work, is the flea.
The agressively hostile response by government employees, aided and abetted by a hostile and aggressive news media is the flea infested camel. My apologies to Joe. My analogy is not fair to him.
yor bro ken
excellent, ken!
Do you have to have a license to ask a presidential nominee a question, even when the nominee initiates the conversation.
Posted by: kbhvac at February 21, 2009 11:58 AM
No, of course not Ken. But that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be pointed out that pretty much everything about “Joe the Plumber” was a fallacy. He’s not a licensed plumber. He doesn’t even have an apprenticeship license. In fact he wasn’t eligible to work as a plumber. And apparently he’s known as Sam.
Also, his taxes would not go up under Obama proposed tax plan. They would go down. “Joe” himself acknowledged this in the end.
Joe the man, doing plumbing work, is the flea.
The agressively hostile response by government employees, aided and abetted by a hostile and aggressive news media is the flea infested camel. My apologies to Joe. My analogy is not fair to him.
Posted by: kbhvac at February 21, 2009 11:58 AM
If Joe is the flea, I would say the camel is the ticket (McCain/Palin) that misrepresented his reality and dragged him into the spotlight, thereby exposing him to scrutiny.
Now as for Joe, he willingly took his 15 minutes of fame and tried to use it to his advantage.
Asitis,
There alot of contractors that have assitants working with them that are not licensed.
Now, the mistake he made was to ask a challenging question to the commuinity agitator. This spawned the brownshirts blogs into action…
Nice try Jasper, but it was hardly a challenging question he posed to Obama.
The mistake Joe made was his misconception that under Obama’s plan income tax would increase for the owner of a small business that grossed $250,000. That and announcing he was a plumber when he was actually working without the necessary license, apprentice or full-fledged.
Truthseeker,
I was out all day yesterday, so I may be responding to your point to late for you to see my response. I said that presumably most women are aware when they seek an abortion that they are preventing the life of a baby from developing and coming to term. You then said that I must be ignoring the testimonies of the many women who say otherwise.
I have not seen a single testimony by a woman who claims she had no idea she was preventing the continued development and ultimate birth of a baby. That would be crazy. These women all sought abortions because they did not want to give birth to a baby! That’s the whole point of getting an abortion.
Prochoicer,
Have you seen/heard the testiminy of the post-abortive mother’s who say they were misled by abortuary practitioners who told them that their baby was just a “blob of cells”? At the time they commited abortion these women did not realize their 8 week old baby actually had a beating heart, eyes, mouth, nose and toes etc.
So far the only reason you gave me for not showing mother’s pictures of their babies is cause they already know that they are terminating the developement of a baby. How does that address the “blob of cells” issue.
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