Confirmed: Barabara Ciccone has passed away
UPDATE, 2/9, 3:40p: I emailed the Diocese of Paterson to ask for confirmation one way or the other on Barbara Ciccone’s status. It sent me the following statement:
The patient died at 3:30 a.m. Friday morning, Feb. 6 ,while being fed, of her terminal illness at Hospice of N.J. in Wayne. There was no wake and burial took place on Saturday.
May Barbara rest in peace.
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UPDATE, 2/7, 6:45a: This story is getting stranger and stranger. Apparently although the St. Joseph’s Wayne Hospital in Wayne, NJ, informed the Diocese of Paterson that Barbara Ciccone had died, she has not. I have written a request to the Diocese for clarification and will keep you posted….
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UPDATE, 2/6, 11:35a: Just received this note, forwarded by Rich Collier…
I just called Bishop Serratelli’s office and was informed that Barbara Ciccone died this morning. The secretary said the Bishop was informed of the situation and was taking action.
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UPDATE, 2/6, 5:15a: I’ve read some comments skeptical that this was a crisis to begin with. Additional thoughts…
The Diocese did not respond “immediately.” On the contrary, officials told Terrie Davis on Tuesday they could do nothing. On Wednesday, their initial response to Richard Collier was the same: Based on their past experience, they assumed the hospital was following Catholic teaching, and therefore they were not going to interfere….
It was only after Rich’s repeated prodding that they agreed to investigate further, and even then they did not respond to him until he publicized the matter yesterday and started getting numerous calls and protests. (Thanks!)
Most importantly, since when is a patient placed in hospice for abdominal pain? And it is a fact Barbara was moved to the hospice floor. (And yes, the hospice contracts half a floor from the hospital, but that is no excuse for the hospital to allow it to kill people if it wishes. The hospital would not contract half a floor to Planned Parenthood.)
Re: “feedings… placed on hold,” Terrie began marking the can of Ensure in Barbara’s room Sunday. The can remained untouched the last time she was allowed to see Barbara on Tuesday. At the very least a constant IV slow drip of water and electrolytes should have been initiated. Terrie said Barbara’s IV was removed when she was moved to hospice.
I agree there is a lot we don’t know.
But the bottom line is Terrie’s “feedings have resumed due to a change in the patient’s condition.” Would they have been resumed had Terrie not been moved to seek help for her friend? We’ll never know.
But thank God for friends like Terrie, legal interveners like Rich Collier, and pro-lifers who light a PR fire like you.
And this entire matter spotlights the fear of the culture of death permeating our society not only at the beginning stages of life but now at the end.
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UPDATE, 2/5, 5:40p: I just received this statement from the Diocese of Paterson, N.J., with a request to post…
The Diocese of Paterson immediately responded to inquiries concerning the medical treatment of a patient at Hospice of New Jersey which leases space from St. Joseph’s Hospital in Wayne. The Diocese wanted to be certain that Catholic ethical principles were being followed. The Diocese was given information that the feeding tube was never removed and that the feedings had been placed on hold due to abdominal pain. At the present time, the Diocese has been informed that the feedings have resumed due to a change in the patient’s condition. The Diocese has been given permission by the family to release this information.
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I just received an email from Richard Collier, president of the Legal Center for the Defense of Life in NJ, that a mentally incapacitated 50-year-old woman named Barbara Ciccone is being starved and dehydrated to death in St. Joseph’s Wayne Hospital in Wayne, NJ.
I am posting Rich’s alert on page 2, which includes email exchanges he has had with Diocese of Paterson personnel. Wrote Rich, “Because the Diocese does not appear to be responding to me, our only recourse is to publicize this situation and bring pressure on the Diocese to do the right thing.”
I just spoke with the whistleblower, Barbara’s friend Terrie Davis. She told me:
Barbara was in a car accident 14 years ago. She suffered traumatic brain injury and has been on a stomach feeding tube ever since, unable to speak. People think she is not in there, but she is. She is very expressive with her eyes and understands conversation. She loves physical humor, such as in the movie Mrs. Doubtfire.
She was moved from her nursing home to the hospital last Thursday. She may have cancer, but the family has forbidden that I receive information. Nevertheless, Barbara is not dying. She is alert and aware.
When I became sure food and hydration had been stopped, I asked Barbara if she wanted to be fed. She told me by facial expression that she does.
Time is of the essence. Barbara has been without food 4-1/2 days. To help Barbara, please call:
St. Joseph’s Wayne Hospital Public Relations: 973-956-3738
Bishop Arthur Serratelli: 973-777-8818
Rich Collier’s email alert
A Catholic hospital in Wayne, NJ has withdrawn nutrition and hydration from a 50-year-old Catholic woman, and the woman has been starving to death since Sunday. It is absolutely clear under the teaching of the Church that patients should not be deprived of nutrition and hydration — the recent statement of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which was approved by Pope Benedict, appears here.
On Tuesday, the starving woman’s friend, Terrie Davis, contacted Priests for Life, the Alliance Defense Fund, and Life Legal Defense Foundation, and they contacted me because I am the President of the Legal Center for the Defense of Life, here in New Jersey. When I learned of the situation on Tuesday night, I immediately contacted the Diocese of Paterson (Bishop Arthur Serratelli is the bishop). Our e-mail exchanges appear below. Because the Diocese does not appear to be responding to me, our only recourse is to publicize this situation and bring pressure on the Diocese to do the right thing.
I can be reached at 609-924-2213. Thank you!
1. To Dr. Mary Mazzarella, director of the Respect Life Office of the Diocese of Paterson, and Kenneth J. Mullaney, Jr., General Counsel of the Diocese:
I understand that you advised Terrie Davis that nothing can be done about the patient at St. Joseph’s Wayne Hospital who has been deprived of nutrition and hydration since Sunday. The patient’s name is Barbara Ciccone, and she was in an accident 14 years ago. She has been conscious, but cannot speak. Until Sunday, she was on a feeding tube. She was at a nursing home until about 2 weeks ago, but was moved to the hospital with abdominal pain. Terrie reports that Barbara was breathing normally and that her pain had subsided, but all of a sudden her treatment was changed on Saturday night or Sunday morning.
Whatever her problem may be, there is no justification for removing nutrition and hydration, if that in fact has happened. The statement of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on this subject can be found here. As for whether the Diocese can do anything, the hospital is a Catholic institution within your Diocese and therefore is subject to the authority of the Bishop. As stated in section 116 of Veritatis Splendor:
A particular responsibility is incumbent upon Bishops with regard to Catholic institutions. Whether these are agencies for the pastoral care of the family or for social work, or institutions dedicated to teaching or health care, Bishops can canonically erect and recognize these structures and delegate certain responsibilities to them. Nevertheless, Bishops are never relieved of their own personal obligations. It falls to them, in communion with the Holy See, both to grant the title “Catholic” to Church-related schools, universities, health-care facilities and counselling services, and, in cases of a serious failure to live up to that title, to take it away.
If this patient has been deprived of nutrition and hydration, the hospital should be instructed to stand down until the Diocese has an opportunity to investigate what is going on and whether it is in conformity with the teaching of the Church.
2. To Patrick Brannigan, Executive Director, NJ Catholic Conference:
I don’t know how to reach any of these people at night, and this matter is urgent. Can you do something to get through to them? The teaching of the Church on nutrition and hydration could not be clearer — the Pope himself approved the strong statement mentioned below — but Catholic hospitals continue to defy it. I hope that is not the case here, but we won’t know unless someone from the Diocese demands to know what is going on at the hospital. I cannot believe that Bishop Serratelli himself would say “we can’t do anything” without checking out the situation first. I also cannot believe that, if he finds a situation contrary to the teaching of the Church, he would turn a blind eye to it. He has the authority, canonical and moral, to instruct a Catholic hospital on how to handle this type of situation, so it should be brought to his attention immediately.
3. To Mazzarella and Mullaney:
Additional information: the hospital is taking the position that Hospice is separate from the hospital, so the hospital is not responsible for starving Barbara to death. This is pure sophistry. The hospital is implementing an indisputably immoral “treatment” strategy, and thus is directly participating in it.
The patient cannot talk but is able to communicate. Her friend of 10 years, Terrie Davis, is certain that, if asked, Barbara will say that she does NOT want to be starved to death. As a matter of law, the patient’s desire overrides any direction the hospital has received from a health-care proxy. It is imperative that someone independent go to the hospital and ask Barbara what her wishes are. If she replies that she does not want to be starved, the hospital MUST honor her wishes. But even if she says that she does want to be starved to death, no Catholic institution can implement her wishes.
At a time when many bishops are fighting FOCA by focusing on the conscience rights of Catholic institutions, the last thing we need is the highly public scandal that will result when widespread publicity reveals that a Catholic hospital is starving a Catholic woman to death in direct violation of Catholic teaching on the removal of nutrition and hydration. Because this case involves a Catholic institution, it is worse than the Terrri Schiavo situation. The Diocese needs to intervene before the situation gets out of hand.
4. From Mullaney:
Mr. Collier, Thank you for your e mail. I am looking into the situation.
5. To Mullaney:
Thanks! Please let me know if you need any help.
6. From Mullaney [40 minutes after No. 4 above]:
Mr. Collier, Our Right to Life Coordinator, Dr. Mary Mazzarella, MD, has already spoken to Ms. Davis. I can tell you from past experience that St. Joseph’s Hospital has a very strong Committee on Ethics that adheres to Catholic teaching and doctrine. Until I know more, I’m not prepared to conclude that our teachings are not being followed in this case. Thanks, Ken
7. To Mullaney:
I agree that until you know more, you should not reach any conclusion. But you will not know more unless and until you ask the hospital. There is more than enough probable cause to require this. No one is asking for a conclusion about Catholic teaching until the investigation is completed. But it will be too late after Barbara is dead.
8. From Mullaney [12:46 PM yesterday]:
I am waiting for a number of call backs from the hospital.
9. To Mullaney [this morning]:
Are you still waiting? Barbara is waiting to be fed.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
So what are we waiting for? Feed the woman already!
I’m expecting at any moment Terri Schiavo’s brother holding a press conference in front of the hospital.
and there is another high profile case in Italy where a young woman, Eluana, is being starved to death.
Interesting how the culture of death is coming to bite back at women in a rather nasty way – females being aborted, females being starved to death….hmmmmm
These sickos who have the name “Catholic” attached to their hospitals are committing blasphemy in the highest sense; that is, using the name of our LORD to justify the slaughter of the innocent. JESUS have mercy on them on judgment day.
This is very frightening to read.
Sadly, what is termed “hospice care” is already becoming increasingly more often exactly this. The hospice care a co-worker’s sister-in-law (ill with advanced cancer) received was withdrawal of both nutrition and hydration–they were told they (family members) could moisten her lips only, but no water, broths or anything. My spunky co-worker kicked this woman out & cared for her sister-in-law over the next TWO MONTHS she lived. Without fluids she wouldn’t have lasted the week. The same type of “hospice care” was what her former husband (senile dementia) was offered. Killing them quickly (less expense, you see) is the norm. I will publicize this as much as possible & be in prayer for Barbara and those with her life in their hands.
Hmmmm… I wonder if her insurance benefits were up?
Sickening. Completely sickening.
I just called the hospital, and the woman I spoke to either had no idea what I was talking about or was lying to me. She took my number, said she would investigate and then call me back.
Then I called the bishops office. His representative said he “was aware” of a situation, but has been/will be in meetings all day.
This makes me so sad. I really thought a Catholic hospital would be the last place something like this would happen.
Sadly, what is termed “hospice care” is already becoming increasingly more often exactly this.
Sadly Klyn73 you are quite correct. I attended a series of bioethical lectures last year and this is how the right to die movement is implementing its agenda. It is becoming increasingly acceptable to kill patients via withholding nutrition and hydration within the palliative care and hospice movement.
Call wunder Barry. Unless she is not innocent, he said just today there is no reason to take an innocent life.
Disgusting.
the hospital is taking the position that Hospice is separate from the hospital
Even if they contract with an outside agency to provide inhouse hospice services, the hospital can stop it. That’s a complete and unacceptable cop out.
Unless the court has stripped this patient of her legal decision making rights, why isn’t someone assisting her to make a formal request for transfer to a different facility?
Even if she cannot sign a form, if she can communicate nonverbally to make her wishes known in the presence of witnesses she can still make a request to be sent elsewhere for care.
Hmmmm… I wonder if her insurance benefits were up?
Sickening. Completely sickening.
Of course, and the slick method of eliminating the patient is to allow a infection, to go “septic”.
Feeding tubes are a good source for infections.
No one to blame, since infections are quite common, and the patient is already in a weakened state.
Thanks for taking time to post the update, Jill. Nice to have some good news!
Glad for the update, still in prayer, though, as it seems strange to me that the woman’s friend could be mistaken about withholding hydration, too? I can’t imagine withholding hydration for abdominal pain, if anything, that would likely worsen it.
you all need to find something in your own lives to deal with instead of worry about people you don’t know. Back off….do you honestly believe a family who has cared for one of their own who is TOTALLY incapacitated for over 14 years would now consider to end her life???? Think people!
Just to comment on the other side of this discussion: First of all, it is my understanding that Hospice of New Jersey is a nondenominational agency, NOT part of a Catholic Hospital, therefore not under the jurisdiction of catholic rules. Second, I don’t believe that Terri Davis is a nurse, therefore cannot make the determination that the patient is no longer in pain nor is she a physician who has access to medical records to determine that the patient ‘might’ have cancer. It is the physician who determines that a patient has 6 months or less of life and then is appropriate for Hospice care. If she or any of the other commentors were educated in end of life care, they would know that the natural progression of life is for the body to become dehydrated and that the body does not need food for energy or fuel when it is in the dying process. A peson actually experiences less pain and discomfort if they are in this dehydrated stated. This is not ‘starving’ as has been accused because due to her disease of cancer, the feedings will only go to feed the cancer, not the patient. A patient that has a feeding tube, at some point in their illness, will not be able to tolerate the feedings because their organs are shutting down. To continue to feed a patient who cannot tolerate the feedings is creating a discomfort for the patient, possibly leading to vomiting, aspiration and increased pain. Hospice is a choice that a person has the right to make about how one wants to live, yes, I said live, the end of their life. It is not for a religion to decide nor is it for a visitor of a patient to make that decision. This patient has been in a vegetative state for many years and her family has the right to make the decisions about her end of life care. So before further accusations are made, it would be advised that those pointing their fingers have ALL of the information about this patient or any other patient in a similar situation. And remember, this is someone’s mother and sister and they have suffered enough.
..
Hi beenthere.
“you all need to find something in your own lives to deal with instead of worry about people you don’t know.”
In telling us to do this, didn’t you just worry about people you don’t know?
Hi Sally. You said
“Hospice … is not for a religion to decide nor is it for a visitor of a patient to make that decision.”
But then you added
“And remember, this is someone’s mother and sister and they have suffered enough.”
Wouldn’t that included the religion of hedonism as well which entails minimizing suffering?
I agree with Sally and Beenthere. It seems like there’s a lot of people here jumping on the emotional bandwagon without all the details or the knowledge to back up their opinions.
Does Terry Davis know more than the doctors? What gives her the right to intrude into someones personal affairs. How does she think the patient would feel about her blabbing her personal information over the internet. Ever hear of privacy laws??
It sounds like Jesus called this Lamb home many years ago. How can we argue with “The Man”
Bobby Bambino –
God forbid I (or any of you) ever end up like this, please don’t allow me to suffer so that YOU feel better!
“It sounds like Jesus called this Lamb home many years ago. How can we argue with “The Man””
Well this is an important point, Anon. I think there is certainly a time when “enough is enough” and indeed, we should let Jesus take someone home. But it should not be by starving or dehydrating someone to death. Food and water are basic human necessities, ones no one should ever be denied. Certainly artificial breathing mechanisms or other types of things are more complex, but if indeed we are talking about food and water, it is a horrible way to die to be starved to death. God love you.
It’s not about me feeling better Anon. It’s about right and wrong.
God Love you Too Bobby B. Stay Well!
That’s why there are doctors to help make those determinations. I don’t believe it’s the same as you would imagine yourself slowly starving to death. Let’s consider quality of life here also. I believe it is a tough emotional issue as I am sure it is for the family that has to make a tough decision. As Sally mentions above, based on myriad other medical conditions, the FORCED FEEDING itself may cause complications and suffering.
Any way you slice it, it’s tough. Our time would be better spent praying for this person’s soul.
The statement from the diocese that Jill posted confirms, assuming it is accurate (and I trust that it is, especially given the specifics it includes), that Jill’s title for this post, “Woman being starved/dehydrated to death at NJ Catholic hospital,” was premature and factually erroneous. Given the new information, Barbara was never being starved/dehydrated.
Jill, you certainly know that when someone comes in to the hospital with unspecified abdominal pain, the first set of doctor’s orders will include “NPO” (to not allow the patient anything by mouth until further notice). If that patient has a feeding tube, that would also mean stopping all delivery of food or water via the feeding tube as well. This is standard, competent medical care. The reason is that until the cause of the pain is determined, it could be risking the patient’s health to put any food or water into the digestive tract. [e.g. a cancerous tumor in the small intestine which at some point occludes the GI tract; in such a situation, it would be doing harm to put anything into an occluded GI tract]
The standard routine would be to insert an IV, provide IV hydration while not putting anything into the digestive tract. Then, depending on the history, the presenting symptoms, and a physical exam, various tests would be ordered to find out what the source of the problem is. With IV hydration in place, there would be no immediate danger to the patient’s health. After the problem is determined, food and water by mouth or feeding tube (in this situation very similar as they both result in food being placed into the GI tract) would be resumed if the situation permits. [in the example of an occluded intestine, food and water could not be resumed and complete nutrition by IV would have to be initiated to provide essential nutrients]
Something about the initial information did not add up. I suspect Barbara was not placed in hospice. If someone goes to the hospital with a new symptom (such as abdominal pain) they are going to be evaluated and treated–it would be unheard of to place someone into hospice care before having completed an assessment of the new situation and reaching some sort of a reasonably certain diagnosis. A patient being evaluated for abdominal pain is certainly not going to be placed under hospice care. That would make no sense. Hospice is for people whose situations are known. Hospice patients are dying (or supposed to be anyway) from a known cause that is beyond trying to cure. Without a stable diagnosis of something that is expected to be fatal, there is no cause for admission to hospice care.
Perhaps what happened here is a well-meaning, but hyper-reactive friend misunderstood standard competent medical care for someone with unspecified abdominal pain (no food or water until the cause is found) for, “They are starving my friend, Oh my God!”
Barbara’s friend Terri wrote, “When I became sure food and hydration had been stopped, I asked Barbara if she wanted to be fed. She told me by facial expression that she does.” Given the context of unspecified abdominal pain, there is nothing surprising here. There is far too little information in this little tidbit from someone unfamiliar with the full medical picture to jump to conclusions by this that some evil is being done here. Again, that food and hydration had been stopped is totally to be expected in this situation. I’ll bet Barbara had an IV and was in fact being hydrated by IV, but Terri did not notice. [also, IV’s can be inserted and then capped off for part of the day so that a visitor might look and think there is no IV fluid going when in fact the patient does have an IV but they don’t happen to be connected at that time because it was temporarily disconnected for a shower, etc.]
So, hold on folks. We shouldn’t be to eager to assume the worst, especially if the information is very spotty and the proper treatment could be easily mistaken by an excitable person as something horrible. Jill, at least from what you passed on here in your post, there was nothing solid to conclude that there was ever anything wrong taking place. It looks to me like a very unfair and hasty judgment to have essentially accused the hospital staff in the title of your post of starving and dehydrating someone.
Given the fact that any competent medical facility would not allow food or water by mouth (or feeding tube) in a situation of unspecified abdominal pain until diagnosing the problem, and if they never intended to starve or dehydrate the patient, and also given the fact that medical staff nowadays are required by law not to give any medical information about a patient to people who are not next-of-kin or otherwise responsible for making decisions on behalf of the patient, the situation as described by Terri was completely as to be expected. It was her overreaction of reading into it something that was not there that was the problem, not the actions of the medical staff.
Let’s be careful not to jump on a bandwagon of making very serious claims about what are probably good, dedicated medical personnel, based on very scant information from someone who is not in a position to understand what the proper care should look like.
It is not for a religion to decide
It is for the diocese or the administration of a Catholic hospital to decide if they should do business with an agency that goes against Church teaching, Sally. From the diocesan response, it sounds like it was appropriate to temporarily stop the feeding. But had this been a situation where it wasn’t, you’d probably have been among the first calling out Catholic hypocrisy for allowing it to happen.
Scott, what concerned me was that the patient was supposedly communicating nonverbally and feeding stopped AFTER the pain had resolved. Now admittedly the informant may not have been reliable. I made the error of assuming someone had verified that the patient wasn’t receiving hydration or nutrition. My bad there.
I am infuriated. The comment that people have less pain when in dehydrated starving state???? Well, I am here to tell you that being dehydrated and starving is very uncomfortable! I was. I have lived through it. All this hospice talk is just trying to calm down thre truth of it. The truth: hospice=euthanasia.
The facts I personally experienced:
1. It is very uncomfortable to be dehydrated.
2. It is very uncomfortable to be starving.
3. My Dad who has Alzheimers was bleeding to death and I am his POA. A nurse secretely informed me that the docs were letting him bleed to death. Literally. This was also a Catholic hospital. I demanded immediate care for him. He had sugery that night and we almost lost him. That was 4 years ago. Yes, he barely speaks but he KNOWS and perceives his grandchildren. He is happy.
4. My mother was diagnosed with cancer. She was alert and was able to speak. AND she wanted to eat. I am a nurse. They wanted to withhold her food and fluid only to have her die sooner. The Catholic hospital chaplian told me that it is Catholic teaching to withhold food and fluid for cancer patients. I told him he was wrong. I was charting as being the “difficult” family member. I would have rather seen my mother die from the cancer that die from starving and dehydration. I wrote my bishop who sent me to speak to the president of that hospital. That guy agreed with the Chaplian! We had hospice for a few days until I realized they lied to the doc–she was NOT vomiting or choking. My Mom fired them. She died in our home in my arms with her grandchildren around her praying AND with the tube feeding there.
5. Morphine is being missused. There are many other medications–even coming in patches, that deliver potent effective comfort measures without numbing the person mental status. Remember, the morphone may make the person “out of it” so they look comfortable, but they are not.
Bottom line: The mental status of the person MUST be overlooked in the issue of feeing and hydrating. And cancer does NOT mean automatically mean withhold.
Aside from what seems to be a very unfortunate misunderstanding and hasty jump to conclusions in this case, I suspect that the quiet and intentional starvation of many elderly Americans is taking place under our noses all over the country in so-called medical care facilities (especially hospices and nursing homes). And I’m afraid this takes place while those in a position to do something remain willfully ignorant.
Mary,
what a story…what the heck kind of Catholic hospital was that…..
Sorry about your Mom and Dad.
My mother in law is in late stage Alzheimers, she still likes to heat, so the hopice feeds her, we had pretty good luck with them…
My Mom fired them. She died in our home in my arms with her grandchildren around her praying AND with the tube feeding there.
Posted by Mary.
Welcome to the world of “hidden euthanasia”.
Tis a shame.
One of the tricks of the hospital staff is to “wear you down”, until you just don’t go to the hospital everyday.
As for dehydration.
Anyone who thinks that not having water given to them, for any reason, should simply take three days out of their life, and not have any liquids.
Enjoy the hallucinations. And the maddening sensation of thirst denyed.
A hint to anyone who has a loved one in a hospital is to pinch their skin and notice if the skin returns to normal.
If your loved one is old, and seems to be normal the last time you talked to them(one day), and the next day they seem to “out of it”, ask the staff nurse,etc, if they have checked for infections.
Scott, I agree. Well said.
Mary, when my time comes, I want someone just like you to be my POA! If only every dying patient were blessed with such an assertive advocate. I have seen patients who get very good hospice care and I wouldn’t consider it euthanasia at all. But I’ve also seen the other end of the spectrum too.
BTW, I am sorry for the loss of your mother. I pray at this very moment she is beholding the face of God with great joy.
You know.. speculation can run a muck and is a dangerous thing.
Elderly patients secretly being starved to death??? How realistic do you really think that ststement is?
Mary:
With all due respect, I know you are trying to do what you think is right.
When my time comes, and god forbid it’s by cancer, please make sure no one drags my life out unnecessarily and prolongs my suffering. When it is my time to meet God.. I don’t want to keep him waiting.
With that said, I hope we all live long and healthy lives.
God Bless!
No anonymous comments allowed, fyi. Thanks.
Too much writing about a situation you have no exact knowledge of. To answer Bobby’s remark…how do you know I don’t know the family or the situation????? As I said before YOU ALL NEED TO BACK OFF…….This family has and is going through hell and dealing with individuals such as this so called “friend” who is nothing but a lonely person with a need for the limelight is disgusting!!!!! This woman is a sister, mother, sister-in-law, aunt and ALL of her family members love her and care about her well-being. 14 years people….wake up and stop JUDGING A SITUTATION YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. YOUR SPECULATIONS, PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, AND BELIEFS HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING SHARED HERE.
“To answer Bobby’s remark…how do you know I don’t know the family or the situation?????”
No beenthere. You misunderstood me. I wrote
”
“you all need to find something in your own lives to deal with instead of worry about people you don’t know.”
In telling us to do this, didn’t you just worry about people you don’t know?
”
I meant you were worry about US (who you don’t know) worrying about someone else. The point is that your statement does not meet its own criteria and is self-refuting. It’s like saying “I can’t type a single word in English.”
There are some Hospices that are good, and that really take care of the dying the way that enhances their time. There are some Hospices that have bought into the Terminal Sedation mindset, a form of euthanasia. Having been a nurse for 37+ yrs, I remember when death with dignity meant something MUCH different that it means to many today, and ‘quality of life’ was NOT measuring disabled or dying by our so-called ‘normal’ lifestyle. Today, those two terms are much more closely related to that of T4 thinking. What some here have written is found in the type of Hospice that I do not ever want to be a part of.
We offered food and water by a syringe or a teaspoon when I began to work as a nursing assistant in 67, and even on a sponge if necessary. Those dying patients of mine over the years gratefully sucked on the wet swab. When the body begins to shut down, the person no longer responds when fluids are offered, and then we swabbed their mouth. There DOES come a point where the body can no longer assimilate food and water, but that also becomes obvious, as death approaches.
Food and fluids are not extraordinary means of life support, regardless of how it enters the body, orally or through a tube.
All you God loving people probably don’t know any thing about Barbara. 14 Years ago Barbara was in a terrible car accident the severed her nerves that connect her brain to the rest of her body.
For the last 14 years Barbara lived in a vegetated state, her family would often come and visit with Barbara, including sisters, mother, and daughter. Please keep in mind that Barbara’s daughter is now 24 years old and the accident occurred 14 years ago.
Barbara lived in this state a long time and recently contracted cancer and was made comfortable and surrounded by loved ones for her final days.
The person that started this blog is a fanatic, and the rest of you who followed suit need to get your facts straight before judging.
Barbara is finally at rest and united with her Mother and Father. Tonight before you go to bed, please get on your knees and say a pray and ask that Barbara rest in peace and her family find strength to carry on.
Please don’t judge what you really don’t know!
NO ONE BUT NO ONE–FRIENDS–OR RELATIVES OF BARBARA HAVE EVER HEARD OF OR SEEN OR KNOW THIS TERRIE DAVIS. HOW DARE THIS FANATIC POINT FINGERS!! WHO IS SHE?? WHAT DOES SHE KNOW OF BARBARA’S MEDICAL CONDITION–WHAT SHE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH IN THE END–OR WHAT HER CAUSE OF DEATH WAS? THIS IS INSANE–THIS FAMILY HAS BEEN THROUGH ENOUGH FOR 14 YEARS KEEPING BARBARA ALIVE AND CONFORTABLE AND WELL CARED FOR!
bobby b. Your interpretation of my remark is twisted to fit your needs. Trust me, I don’t worry about all of you ignorants who have nothing better to do than judge people and situations you don’t know. I acutally pity you. You and rest of the “jury” should be embarassed and ashamed of your remarks, accusations and judgements. Terri Davis violated the privacy of Barbara and her family. Not only do they now mourn her passing but they have to be stressed over this stupid blogging. I’m done….this should be stopped.
I don’t know or care to know Terrie Davis, but she has to be a very lonely soul. Who based on the actions she took by beginning this blog has strong beliefs / opinion that in her mind are without question correct.
Unfortunately, Terrie is unwilling and disrespectful to the beliefs / opinion of others. A woman was injured and kept alive by her family for 14 long years, without any hope for recovery.
Finally her condition turned from bad to worst, not only was she not going to recover but she also had cancer.
Based on doctor’s advice and spiritual guidance it was time for the family to let Barbara be at peace.
As we can all see from her blog Terrie doesn’t see it that way, frankly speaking she is entitled to her opinion. Unfortunately, having an opinion is one thing, declaring yourself judge, jury and executioner are not a Godly act. Terrie would have you believe see is caring out Gods will, but if Terrie took time to look in the mirror she would realize she is not God.
Terrie please allow Barbara to rest in peace.
Thank you
Finally her condition turned from bad to worst, not only was she not going to recover but she also had cancer.
Based on doctor’s advice and spiritual guidance it was time for the family to let Barbara be at peace.
posted by annonymous.
Since she was going to die, give her some water on the way out.
Next time your thirsty, say a prayer for Barbara.
Maybe Terrie Davis was a health professional who saw something going on that was not ethical?
Is the family claiming they do not know who Terrie Davis is?
toostunnedtolaugh,
I stated “I don’t know or care to know Terrie Davis” I never said the family didn’t know her!
anon: what post you are referring to? There are many anon comments on this thread. Take a valium, ok?
I am referring to Friend of the Family’s comment NOT yours.
“NO ONE BUT NO ONE–FRIENDS–OR RELATIVES OF BARBARA HAVE EVER HEARD OF OR SEEN OR KNOW THIS TERRIE DAVIS.”
BTW, pick a moniker or risk being deleted.
“Your interpretation of my remark is twisted to fit your needs.”
You need to show me how, beenthere. I specifically pointed out your self-refuting statement. The burden of proof is on you to show where I mislead. All you have done is judged us for judging.
Bobby B. For you to respond to messages seconds after someone has written about you says volumes of your life or actually, lack there of. You need to worry about yourself instead of making judgements about someone you don’t know.
GET A LIFE LOSER!
And as for Terry, ever since she had that plate put in her head, she was never quite the same. It appears to have replaced any grey matter that may have existed at one time. I know her medical records since “I was her best freind.” ;)
“For you to respond to messages seconds after someone has written about you says volumes of your life or actually, lack there of. ”
Thanks! My job is a sinecure, so it allows me to constantly hit ‘control R’ for hours on end and see if the comment gauge goes up. Then I can be like- BOOM! Respond. Oh yeah.
“You need to worry about yourself instead of making judgements about someone you don’t know.”
Uh oh… did you just judge me for being judgmental again?
THEMAN: Bobby B. For you to respond to messages seconds after someone has written about you says volumes of your life or actually, lack there of. You need to worry about yourself instead of making judgements about someone you don’t know. GET A LIFE LOSER!
:: chuckling :: You made me laugh, there, THEMAN.
Bobby is often on the opposite side of an argument from me, but he is the farthest thing from a “loser” that I’ve ever seen.
What do think the big deal is about replying quickly? If you were talking to somebody face-to-face, are you gonna wait around, thinking it somehow makes you “better”? ; )
People get fired up about this stuff – just look at the comments above – and Bobby is passionate about many things.
But seriously :: ruefully grinning and shaking head :: saying “loser” for him is just funny.
Also, maybe Bobby can just type fast, too. : )
I took typing in High School as a Junior. We’re talkin’ 1976. (Holy #$%*? that’s a long time ago.)
Anyway, this online stuff really helps one’s typing. I’m still getting better at it, 33 years later. Once in a while I’ll blast through a sentence, and realize I didn’t even look at the keyboard. YEAH BABY.
Doug – we agree about Bobby and typing!).
THEMAN – you might want to know that Bobby is a mod on here. So it IS possible that he was online moderating when your comment came in. I think if you look on many threads you will see that Bobby does not comment very frequently.
And as for Terry, ever since she had that plate put in her head, she was never quite the same. It appears to have replaced any grey matter that may have existed at one time. I know her medical records since “I was her best freind.” ;)
Posted by: THEMAN at February 7, 2009 6:10 PM
and aren’t you quite the gentleman! :-(
now why would the hospital want the Diocese to believe that Barbara was dead?
she is now let her rest in peace
“Also, maybe Bobby can just type fast”
I do consider myself the fastest one finger typer in the world…
“she is now let her rest in peace”
This is a good idea, Anon. I’ve engaged in too much sarcasm and not enough reverence for the deceased on this thread.
Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine: et lux perpetua luceat eis.
@Bobby: if she is in fact dead.
While I do not wish to see Barbara’s suffering prolonged I also do want her “hurried” along either by what some might call an act of mercy.
To THEMAN…you definitely are the Man and Bobby is the rest of his posse are worms who wiggle their way into the private lives of people they don’t even know. bobby you are an idiot who uses big words to and fancy phrases to hide your inadequacies. You need help.
My prayers are the with Barbara’f family. I hope you find comfort in this very difficult time and be assured there are more people on your side than the lunatics on this blog.
beenthere: you have no idea what you are talking about. Believe me Bobby is a gentle sweet man who wouldn’t harm anyone. And he has a very fulfilling happy life as evidenced by his charitable posts on this blog.
I pray that your heart will be filled with the peace of Christ. The people on this blog are well-intentioned and are concerned that Barbara receive the proper care that she is entitled to.
We have no idea WHO you are and why you are so vehement and angry at the views expressed here.
If nothing improper has been done in Barbara’s case wouldn’t it be better to clear the air? That’s all we are asking.
Toostunned: Who are you to clear someone’s air you don’t even know. Mind your own business and clean your own air! THE FAMILY CARES ENOUGH!!! You have no idea how hard it is to hear people talk about OUR BUSINESS!!! LIKE ANY OF YOU MORONS KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR SOMEONE YOU DONT KNOW!!! MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!
And then you have to love the idiot Doug who says:
What do think the big deal is about replying quickly? If you were talking to somebody face-to-face, are you gonna wait around, thinking it somehow makes you “better”? ; )
Dude, I wish I were face to face with you freaks! On a computer at 7 AM? Hmmm… Yeah, you have a life! ;)
“And then you have to love the idiot Doug…”
I sure do love the idiot Doug :)
And then you have to love the idiot Doug who says:
What do think the big deal is about replying quickly? If you were talking to somebody face-to-face, are you gonna wait around, thinking it somehow makes you “better”? ; )
Dude, I wish I were face to face with you freaks! On a computer at 7 AM? Hmmm… Yeah, you have a life! ;)
Posted by: Anonymous at February 8, 2009 8:46 PM
Now, Now, idiot’s don’t know their idiot’s.
I personally know that Doug is a pirate, who would offer his last drink to a dying albatross.
And only a idiot wouldn’t give a drink to a albatross.
Water, water, everywhere, and not a drop to drink.
I can’t speak for Barbara, because I visited with her with Terrie on Sundays starting several years ago and never said a word to me. I tend not to use the grapevine in writing. Barbara did communicate with her eyes. Was there a physician to check if her gaze answered “yes” or “no” questions?
I can’t speak for the church of which Barbara was a member. When Barbara was at St. Vincent’s her doctor visited and everything was confidential. Maybe the gaze left/right/straight form of communication could have been addressed, only it hadn’t occurred to at least this reader that her life would end sooner rather than later. A priest from St. Mary’s visited and gave her a blessing as would the priests and Larry at St. Vincent’s.
What I can say is the pleasure I had of visiting and taking walks with Barbara in her wheelchair and making music, as Terrie sang or read the Bible, to help her get a fuller life in confined living. Terrie is lonely? I doubt it. Barbara…I guess you’re all her friends.
God bless every one of you.
THE FAMILY CARES ENOUGH!!! You have no idea how hard it is to hear people talk about OUR BUSINESS!!! LIKE ANY OF YOU MORONS KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR SOMEONE YOU DONT KNOW!!! MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!
I’m sure Michael Schiavo said words very similar about his dearly beloved wife.
If everything is on the up and up then come forward and explain the discrepancies to those questioning Barbara’s treatment. If you have nothing to hide….
It is not uncommon for people to receive “care” that indirectly leads to their demise.
This is all we are saying…
I was intrigued by Scott Johnson’s remarks. He read a brief summary of the facts and created a whole new fabrication and argued as if it were fact.
Barbara had been in the hospital for over 2 weeks with minimal family contact.
She had been hydrated with an IV until she went to hospice.
She had been fed through her tube except for the period before a procedure while in the hospital. But 2 days after she got to hospice, the feeding was discontinued.
Of course, I don’t know what her diagnosis was; I had no right to that information. I suspected that it was cancer, and the family confirms that here.
A cancer diagnosis is not a reason to starve someone. If there is a blockage, hydration would still be needed. This was handled poorly. A person should die from the disease rather than from the medical “care.”
I am so sorry for the family’s pain, but to say that they cared for Barbara for 14 years is misleading. She was cared for by the nursing home – with little family contact after her mother died several years ago. Of course they cared about her! Would it have hurt for them to let Barbara be treated for her disease and die from that rather than from starvation? That was Barbara’s desire.
Her family has, indeed, suffered greatly and is surely upset by all the brooha-ha that this has caused: the appropriate result of making an inhumane choice for Barbara.
The imminent loss of a loved one can blind us, making us susceptible to the promptings of unethical people. Barbara should have not been deprived of nutrition and hydration. If we proposed that all food and water be withheld from the terrorists in Gitmo, it would become “torture” faster than you could suggest it. If she had not been disabled, this diagnosis would not have resulted in this quick little fix.
Barbara rests, deliriously happy in the arms of Jesus, but her family will need our compassion and prayers for many years as the long years of sadness following her accident and the weight of their decision burdens their hearts and souls. Please pray for them and work for ethical treatment of disabled people.
Ah Terrie where should I start. Although my first inclination is to insult you I feel that it would do little good and simply reduced the effect of my response. Rather I will simply correct your misstatements and then state the reasoning for my name. First you referred to yourself as Barbara’s friend. This is a misstatement because sadly due to her injuries Barbara was likely to have never known who you were. Patients such as Barbara who are in a persistent vegetative state completely lack cognitive function although they will display characteristics which would fool many people into thinking that they retain this function. As such your statement that you are Barbara’s friend is incorrect because you can not be friends with someone who does not know and has never known that you exist.
With that said there is a more accurate term to describe you, but it would likely result in this post being deleted. As such I will sanitize the term to nuisance. Without having ever met Barbara and knowing nothing about her personality, dreams, desires, wishes, etc. you attempt to pass judgment on those who truly did know and love her and more importantly, those who she knew and loved, a category which you had never and would never enter. Furthermore you attempted to pass judgment and control her final days without knowing the slightest bit about her true medical diagnosis or condition because thankfully the hospital and her family would not divulge this information to you.
Moreover, in stating that you feel it is appropriate for Barbara’s loved ones to suffer greatly, you show your true colors as a person as a vindictive, hateful and self-righteous person, a trait which I am sure is not lost on the Lord when your day of reckoning comes. Hopefully you learn to control your weight-problem that the family has told me you have so that you will have ample time to repent and mend your ways before you have to face the Lord.
Finally I come to the part of the post where I state the reasoning for my name. The thankful part is for several reasons. First I am thankful for the kind and compassionate workers of the hospice unit and nursing home who for years assisted the family in caring for Barbara and who treated her with respect and dignity in her dying days. These people must be some of the most amazing people in the world and through there kindness and compassion to sick and dying people they truly perform the Lord’s work. I am also thankful that Barbara’s family excluded you from the hospital during her final days so that those who truly cared for her well-being were able to say their goodbyes without your inappropriate presence. I am also thankful for the hospital staff who was able to confuse, distract, and deny you knowledge and access to Barbara and her family leading up to and after her death which allowed them to make her final arrangements and to grieve without fear of your annoying presence. Finally, I am thankful that you and your “allies” were excluded from Barbara’s funeral and burial, this allowed the family and her friends to say their goodbyes in a beautiful and peaceful setting while at the same time allowing Barbara to rest in peace in the Lord’s Eternal Grace.
Please leave the family and Barbara’s memory in peace now and if you heed my call, seek only to apologize for the harm and anguish you have caused as that has been your only role in this whole situation, a bringer of misery and hardship in this most difficult of times.
~Thankful Friend of Barbara
Oh our Lady of Sorrows do we know why you weep? Is it for your children who cause so much pain in the name of your Son? Terrie, It is the Lord alone who can truly know Barbara’s desires. Gitmo, shame on you and your ego which has caused you to be lord and judge over us. My lord is kind and merciful and forgiving to all who ask. His will is not for us to question. He has called Barbara to His heavenly home in spite of all of us. Our Blessed Mother knows the love a mother has for a child. As a mom, if I were Barbara I would pray to the Lord to please have my little girl taken care of. I would pray to the Lord to bring me to Him so my daughter’s heart can mend and she will not have to bear this cross. So the hearts and souls of Barbara’s family are not burdened, for when they look there they see the unconditional love, care and support they gave to Barbara’s daughter for the past 14 years and will continue to do long after all of your opinions and judgements have faded away. At this 3:00 hour it is our Lord’s utmost desire to show his mercy. I will pray that you ask him to be merciful to you and forgive you for your own blindness.
And then you have to love the idiot Doug who says:
“What do think the big deal is about replying quickly? If you were talking to somebody face-to-face, are you gonna wait around, thinking it somehow makes you “better”? ; )”
Dude, I wish I were face to face with you freaks! On a computer at 7 AM? Hmmm… Yeah, you have a life! ;)
I’ve got a job where, when things are going well, I can be online a whole lot, thank goodness.
I’m all for people being allowed to die with dignity, etc.
As for being a “freak” heh – let’s see your picture. ; )
There was just another woman who died in Italy for the same reason. The only good thing there was that the government WAS trying to save her by passing legislation prohibiting food and water from being withheld.
They say they will still pass the legislation even though it’s too late to save the woman.
yllas: I personally know that Doug is a pirate, who would offer his last drink to a dying albatross.
Ahoy, me hearty. asitis & me’s been carryin’ the pirate tradition on in ye absence, we ‘ave.
……
And only a idiot wouldn’t give a drink to a albatross.
The “last drink”….? Hmm…..
…..
Water, water, everywhere, and not a drop to drink.
Water – who needs it? ; )
Patients such as Barbara who are in a persistent vegetative state completely lack cognitive function although they will display characteristics which would fool many people into thinking that they retain this function.
Please do NOT use this terminology to describe people, even those who are dear to you. People are not vegetables no matter their condition and it demeans them. It is a pejorative term that suggests these people are no longer human but vegetables.
May Barbara rest in peace.
Test
Water, water, everywhere, and not a drop to drink.
Water – who needs it? ; )
Posted by: Doug at February 9, 2009 4:16 PM
Aragh, any sea faring matey knows a albatross is a sign of good luck.
No better description of thirst then Coleridge’s, Rime Of The Ancient Mariner.
Being unresponsive or unable to communicate does not mean you are less deserving of dignity and care.
Please leave the family and Barbara’s memory in peace now and if you heed my call, seek only to apologize for the harm and anguish you have caused as that has been your only role in this whole situation, a bringer of misery and hardship in this most difficult of times.
~Thankful Friend of Barbara
Posted by: Thankful Friend of the Family at February 9, 2009 12:36 PM
Christ almighty, even Jesus was given a drink while dying. Did you offer her some vinegar in a mock jesture of compassion? On a hyssop?
even criminals on death row are given a last meal
Anonymous, 10:50p: I appreciate your sentiment and thought. We just don’t take the Lord’s name in vain, and we identify ourselves. Thanks… :)
Thankful Friend of the Family…thank you for putting into words how alot of us feel…
Terri ‘Would it have hurt for them to let Barbara be treated for her disease and die from that rather than from starvation?’
She did die from the disease, you do die from starvation after only 4 days
‘Her family has, indeed, suffered greatly and is surely upset by all the brooha-ha that this has caused’
You,and only you, Terri, so called friend, have caused Barbara, her family, and many others to suffer
sorry for the typo..what I meant to say was.. you do NOT die from starvation after only 4 days
yllas: Aragh, any sea faring matey knows a albatross is a sign of good luck.
Indeed, Cap’n, but if’n ye ‘ave no water but only grog, does the big bird get a taste o’ it?
FYI, y’all
If you are told that your loved one has no cognitive ability, you must know that the one who told you that does not REALLY KNOW what is going on in your loved one’s head. People who recover from a comatose state often relate recollections of conversations that were held in their presence or things that were told to them or read to them while they were comatose.
We may not get the luxury of knowing that we are making a connection, but we have an obligation to visit them and care for them. “Whatever you do for the least of these, you do for Me.”
A person may be unable to communicate, but still know what you are saying.
I believed what they said about Barbara until she laughed at a comment of frustration about raising teenagers. Was it a fluke or did she really know what I was saying?
When she doubled over with laughter when she saw a funny scene in Mrs Doubtfire, I knew she was “in there.”
About the third time that I began visiting weekly (rather than just occasionally) with Barbara, I told her my name. She gave me a “duh” look and I apologized, saying that I didn’t know how much she could remember. If you talked to her like she was a human being, she was responsive; very expressive with her facial expressions. If you had visited with her regularly, you would have established a bond that would have shown you that she remembered you and still cared about you. You could figure out what she liked and what she disliked by her expressions or eye movements – or her foot, with which she waved to people and sometimes indicated assent.
The brain is a fascinating organ: Cells regenerate, electrical currents constantly going through it, activity stimulating more activity even when things have gone haywire. Can visits from a loved one help one recover ever so slowly? Maybe so. Barbara would never recover completely without a miraculous healing (for which people constantly prayed), but her life was enriched by every one who visited her.
I know its unspeakably hard for a family member to see a loved one is such a state. Love is about overcoming our own pain for the sake of the loved one.
Barbara lost her beauty, but not her value as a person.
Each one of us is exquisitely unique and of inestimable value, even if twisted or crooked. We need each other – especially when it is hard to recognize that we benefit from gifts of self that our shortcomings require.
Whenever we have a friend or family member who is injured, had a stroke, or suffers from dementia, we have to remember that visits, including a gentle foot rub, hand massage, shoulder or back rub will ease their pain and serve an an immense encouragement to them even though they may never be able to communicate that to us.
Studies have shown that skin to skin contact physically benefits both people A recent study revealed that patients with flowers in the room recover faster than patients without them. Maybe they serve as a constant reminder that someone cares. A wonderful digital picture frame, I bet, does the same thing. Whatever you do for them, you are literally doing for Jesus. You can’t lose – unless you stay home.
Please be encouraged to give and not count the cost, which can be great, but it makes life so rich!
Thanks Terrie.
The family of Barbara Ciccone would like to thank all those men and women who visited Barbara over the past 14+ years. We deeply regret that we were unable to thank you personally because of the hostile situation surrounding her death. There were so many caring people who spent time with Barbara, reading and singing to her, talking to her, or wheeling her around the grounds of St. Vincent’s in the spring and summer. You all gave so much of yourselves for her. We would have wanted all of you to be able to say your goodbyes along with the family and share in our memories of Barbara as a sister, a friend, and a mother. We are deeply grateful for your compassion and caring over all these years.