Front pg USA Today: Sudden surge in pro-life legislation; now a “free-for-all”
Family Research Council reported yesterday:
Most of us would like to forget that March afternoon when President Obama signed his health care agenda into law. It’s difficult to see those “reforms” as anything but a stinging defeat for our nation – but from it, new victories are springing up! In fact, the local response has been so overwhelming that USA Today dedicated a front-page story to the pro-life legislation that’s spreading like wildfire through the states.
Indeed, here are excerpts from that April 26 USA Today story…
Dozens of states are passing or debating new restrictions on abortion, a trend fueled in part by passage of the nation’s new health care law….
“This year, particularly in the past couple of weeks, it’s really turned into a free-for-all on trying to restrict abortions,” said Elizabeth Nash of the Guttmacher Institute….
So far, 2010 has been “very successful,” said Mary Spaulding Balch of the National Right to Life Committee.
The most significant legislation, both sides say, is a NE law signed by the governor this month that would ban most abortions at the 20th week of pregnancy based on a new rationale that the fetus feels pain….
At least 22 states have bills to increase counseling or waiting periods; 18 states have bills to expand the use of ultrasound, Nash said….
TN lawmakers last week passed a bill that would ban abortion coverage in any plan sold through its exchange. It applies even if premiums were paid with private funds because public funds would help run the exchange, said the bill’s sponsor….
[Photo of Obama signing the healthcare bill via the Associated Press; photo of NE Gov. Dave Heineman preparing to sign his state’s fetal pain bill also via the Associated Press]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
TN lawmakers last week passed a bill that would ban abortion coverage in any plan sold through its exchange. It applies even if premiums were paid with private funds because public funds would help run the exchange, said the bill’s sponsor….
I don’t think any more proof is needed that the Antis want to force abortion to be a cash-only business for women who can afford it. Shame on the Antis. These bills are anti-woman and anti-healthcare.
The Oklahoma bills in particular, with vaginal probe ultrasounds -even for rape victims- is inhumane and a violation of women’s privacy. Surely no male politician would mandate such an intrusive scan for men.
The Antis really are showing their true colors. It’s not Obama who wants to control medicine. It’s these guys. Ignoring all clinical studies and declaring that 20 week-old fetuses feel pain? Ignoring the right to privacy and mandating that all women who want terminations in Oklahoma must undergo an internal ultrasound, even if they are 100% certain of their decision? This is horrifying and un-American.
When it comes to getting in-between a doctor and her patient, no one does it better than the Antis.
Thanks for the good ol morning laugh, Dhalgren!! :)
The Arizona bill became law.
http://lifenews.com/state5027.html
Intrusive? LOL. The abortionist doesn’t wave a magic wand over the pregnant mother’s uterus during her *procedure*, no–a curette and suction vaccuum are FAR MORE intrusive than a vaginal probe ultrasound. I’ve had one. Not to mention the risk for cervical lacerations, uterine or bowel perforation or being rendered sterile by a transvaginal ultrasound are ZERO. Why are you so afraid of women making an INFORMED decision?
“…These bills are anti-woman and anti-healthcare…..
Posted by: Dhalgren at April 27, 2010 8:25 AM”
No Dhalgren, at least 1/2 of abortions result in the murder of women so how can pro-lifers be anti-women unless one allows oneself to believe a lie?
Obama thinks unborn babies are illegals and need to be aborted. They should be welcomed to America.
“I don’t think any more proof is needed that the Antis want to force abortion to be a cash-only business for women who can afford it. Shame on the Antis.
Dhalgren,
There’s an up side to having “cash-only” abortion services – less fraud.
Dhalgren,
What’s your take on the new Utah law that makes self-induced abortion a homicide? Does it deny a woman her right to privacy?
Dhalgren,
I’m amazed you can spend so much time at this blog and still not be pro-life. How can you possibly be exposed to truth for so long and still insist on clinging to your ignorance? How can you witness the carnage and not change your ways?
I think you really don’t believe what you are writing on here but are just looking to get a rise out of people.
I love how some are finding the opportunity in this Obama Crisis to do what they can to oppose abortion. I just pray that the Church can take some credit in the future victories and soon turn the tide and end the legal killing of our children.
“vaginal probe ultrasounds-even for rape victims-is inhumane and a violation of women’s privacy. Surely no male politician would mandate such an intrusive scan….”
So an ultrasound is more intrusive than an abortion?!!! Words fail me.
As for men: I’m not aware of any raging movement against the intrusiveness of a rectal exam to test for prostate cancer, uncomfortable and embarrassing as it may be.
Reading a couple of these posts it seems pro-aborts don’t want even one child in the womb to get out alive.
Wow – you really do want murdered babies
Are these ultrasounds all internal? If so, why? All the ultrasounds I’ve ever had have been external.
I’m amazed you can spend so much time at this blog and still not be pro-life.
Thanks for the morning laugh, Scott! Yes, the rational arguments at this site are going to eventually make me see the light!
Why are you so afraid of women making an INFORMED decision?
klynn73, you fail to see my argument. If a woman has made her decision to terminate, why must a clinic worker or physician be forced to subject the woman to a vaginally-inserted ultrasound. Clearly, this bill is meant to make it as embarrassing and uncomfortable as possible for even the women who have thought long and hard on their own to end their pregnancy. It’s literally the government violating a woman’s body. Where are the Tea Baggers on this one?
There’s an up side to having “cash-only” abortion services – less fraud.
Please, what fraud? Abortion is not like an unnecessary prescription or unnecessary cosmetic procedure. The fraud you might be referring to is the intentional delays by private insurance to reimburse anything, which in many cases, results in the procedure being free of charge to the patient, and the hospital losing revenue.
So an ultrasound is more intrusive than an abortion?!!!
If a woman chooses a D&C, but not an internally-inserted ultrasound, then yes. You bet.
Stop and think abut what this Oklahoma bill does. It forces a doctor to use an unnecessary tool and technology as part of the state’s attempt to make the patient change her mind. Your side accuses Planned Parenthood of aggressively encouraging women to abort ( which I find laughable). But here is the state encouraging women not to abort, not through education, but by making the D&C longer and more expensive. That goes against traditional conservative logic.
What I’m saying is, it is OK for you to be against this. You can raw the line and say that the State inserting an ultrasound probe into a woman’s vagina is going a wee too far.
Wow – you really do want murdered babies
Absolutely not. I love babies.
I want women and their doctors to decide on their own how to manage pregnancies, whether they result in a healthy birth, or if the women decides to legally terminate her pregnancy within 22 weeks, 6 days.
I want politicians on both sides of the issue out of health care decisions like this. But it seems that one particular side is being quite persistent in wedging itself into the examination room and operating room.
Are you talking about a woman and her abortionist, Dhalgren? I never had a doctor. The abortionist never even talked to me much less showed me an ultrasound of my growing child. Abortionists kill children and wound women. That is why they get the big bucks.
PS Please point me to a link about the internal ultrasound? Why don’t we do some research before we throw out how much more intrusive it is.
“Absolutely not. I love babies…..
Posted by: Dhalgren at April 27, 2010 10:30 AM”
This is a lie, admit it.
You cannot be pro-death and say “I love babies”.
“Twist and shout, twist and shout, c’mon, c’mon baby now, twist and shout…..” The pro-death mantra.
“I think you really don’t believe what you are writing on here but are just looking to get a rise out of people.”
Isn’t that the definition of a troll?
Can someone verify if these ultrasounds are all and always internal ones or are they external? If they are internal, why?
I was under the impression that internal ultrasounds are to search for abnormalities. Wouldn’t external ultrasounds be sufficient?
Again, can someone verify whether these ultrasounds would be internal or external?
I’ve only ever had external ones. Nothing intrusive about an external ultrasound.
Bekah,
Abortion clinics rarely do ultrasounds as it is bad for business. If they do it is with those antiquated machines. I have friends who asked to see the ultrasound before their abortions. They were told no or the screen was turned away from them.
I am still waiting for a link from Dhalgren about the internal ultrasound.
Internal ultrasounds show much more detail of the growing baby. I have had both external and internal.
Hi Carla :)
I know the abortuaries don’t show women their ultrasounds. If they do use them, it is simply to determine gestation so they know which form of killing to use. :/
What I’m asking is, if legislation is passed, requiring all women to see their ultrasound as part of informed consent, which type of ultrasound will be used. To me it seems unlikely that internal ultrasounds would be used for this purpose. But, I’ll wait to see if Dhalgren has proof of that or if it’s only a smokescreen.
Most ultrasound bills require the abortionist to do them, but a woman still gets the choice to view them or not.
Dhalgren….we’re waiting….
As for abortion being “cash only” well yes, this is America and I should not be forced to pay for something that goes completely against my moral and religious beliefs. If a poor woman wants an abortion bad enough, she can scrape up the blood money herself.
Oh, and dear troll, please look up the photos of pre-term LIVING babies born at 19-23 weeks. Then tell me how much you “love babies” you lying liar.
Also, many abortionists already use ultrasounds during the procedures. If the baby is too small to see clearly with the external ultrasound, then obviously an internal one ought to be used. Since you pro-aborts are so good at claiming that most abortions are done when baby is an itty bitty speck, why wouldn’t they use an internal one MOST of the time?? So what exactly is your objection? If they don’t use it, then it is a blind attempt to jab at the baby, which can and has resulted in serious physical damage to the mother. Is that “pro-woman”??
Or are you really afraid that a woman will see that it’s not “just a clump of cells” and change her mind? Cause I think you are.
You cannot be pro-death and say “I love babies”.
Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at April 27, 2010 10:37 AM
But you sure can be pro-choice and say “I love babies.”
Another important purpose of mandatory ultrasound would be to avoid abortions performed on what would otherwise be unidentified ectopic pregnancies.
It could also avoid the fraud of “fake” abortions performed on women who aren’t actually pregnant.
I think the main, unanswered question here, for people like Dhalgren, is: why aren’t women allowed to view their ultrasounds when they’ve come in for an abortion? For what purpose could this be other than deception? And then the question is, why are we trying to deceive women? Don’t we … *trust* them? ;)
If I had been told and shown THE TRUTH about what was happening inside my body when I was pregnant 23 years ago, I would not have had an abortion and not have had to suffer the aftermath–and I am being quite literal when I say suffer. My consent definitely was not informed. If I had been informed and supported, I would not have consented.
Ignorance is bliss would seem to be your motto, Dhalgren, when it comes to abortion. In my experience, in the long run it most certainly is not! I am willing to do whatever I am able to do to prevent other women from being hurt by those, like you, who preach ignorance rather than truth. Lying is just one more way to manipulate people. It is not taking a higher moral ground to not tell and show pregnant women the truth about the children whose lives they are responsible for. It is a form of childish and adolescent rebellion to rationalize wrong, make excuses, and run from consequences. I feel sorry for you, that you’re still stuck there and can’t perceive how absurd your arguments sound to one who has outgrown that stage of development.
Hal wrote:
But you sure can be pro-choice and say “I love babies.”
Er… “pro-choice” about what? Orwellian new-speak only obfuscates the issue, Hal.
If you mean “pro-choice” in the non-colloquial sense of “being free to choose the colour of one’s shoes, favourite flavour of ice-cream, etc., then your comment makes sense. But for you to say that one can be “pro-choice” about killing babies in the womb while “loving” them is… well… bizarre. Either you think undeserved homicide is perfectly compatible with love, or you’re confused.
Here Dhalgren, I can help you out.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/19/oklahoma-force-women-vaginal-probe-abortion/
And another source:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=10420549
Dhalgren,
Any source yet on that big “family planning facility” being built by the University of Utah Medical Center? I still can’t find anything about it on google or the hospital website.
Governor Henry vetoed that bill…The House overrode his veto yesterday.
Dhalgren and Kat,
What are the number of bonafide rape pregnancies in Oklahoma in any given year?
Rape victims are beaten, tortured, terrorized, traumatized, infected with AIDS, and even murdered and all you are concerned about is a vaginal probe?
I suspect the whining on the PA side has more to do with loss of potential revenue than any “concern” for rape victims.
Hal, 11:03am
Just like one can be pro-choice on wife abuse but still respect and love women.
I understand the concern that an internal ultrasound would be humiliating/traumatizing for a woman who has just recently been raped, but it should be noted that if she’s having an abortion that same day anyway, she’s going to have a suction tube inserted in few minutes anyway – which will actually be much more violating than the ultrasound once the vacuum aspiration machine is switched on.
And seeing her tiny baby on ultrasound might actually change her mind about abortion (i.e. INFORMED consent) and potentially save her from the trauma of abortion itself; which parallels the violence of rape. Consider: in the same way that a man puts his own body and needs before the woman’s in a rape, the woman who aborts has put her body and needs before her child’s. The rapist violates the woman’s body just as the woman violates the body of her fetal child in abortion. Yet while the woman survived being raped, the fetus will not survive dismemberment.
Hi Bekah,
Excellent point. The medical exam required to obtain evidence for conviction won’t be traumatizing? The abortion won’t be traumatizing? Her horrific experience won’t be traumatizing?
Oh and Bekah,
Where is the PA community’s “concern” for rape and sexual abuse victims when Planned Parenthood is caught time and again not only not reporting sexual abuse of minors by adults, but enabling the abusers by covering his crime with abortion and providing birth control to young girls.
Dhalgren,
Maybe you can respond to my post of 12:03PM.
“These bills are anti-woman and anti-healthcare.”
Oh, please. To borrow an old phrase, a woman needs an abortion like a fish needs a bicycle.
Beautiful, Bekah!
I didn’t become pregnant by rape, but I was sexually molested over a ten-year period as a child. Incest is coercion and lying and manipulation and bodily intrusion. In my experience, the “decision” to abort and the abortion were the very same thing: coercion, lying, manipulation, and bodily intrusion–all things I was used to and learned to trust because it was totally intertwined with the love I craved, and in fact needed, yet they both damaged me so much. I was not taught to respect my own body, and that led to my not respecting my body’s ability to conceive and to bear and give birth to a child–a process that should never seem less than awesome to any of us! I admit it: I still feel a great deal of resentment toward the lies that I was told, in the process of incest and in the process of abortion, because those lies corrupted me and robbed me of my innocence, and because I know that others too are being hurt and will continue to be hurt by those lies. To my mind and heart, people like Dhalgren are part of a system that molests women’s minds, hearts, bodies, and souls by hiding from them and lying to them about the truth about life in the womb, and by offering them only abortion as the “solution” to their fears and hurts.
Alice,
I am so glad you are here! I share your resentment of the lies I was told that day in the abortion clinic and how I believed what they told me about abortion being “the best thing” that I could do.
Please fill out a declaration at Operation Outcry.
They are used to further prolife legislation which is going strong right now!!
http://www.operationoutcry.org
It has helped to know that my story will spare others the pain of abortion.
The way I see it…since the Federal government and it’s por-abort ilk would NOT listen to the will of the people…
The People CAN and WILL find a way around this “Bill of Death”…
We’re just seeing the tip of the icebergs here, folks. Titanic Obama, here we come…
*LOL @ Dhalgren…sounds like the Iraqi Information Minister during Desert Storm ***
Hi Alice,
Thanks for telling your story. I too am a survivor of rape and realize as well how abortion is a close relative to rape. I think once you have been so oppressed by lies and violence, it is much easier to pick out when others are doing the same.
God Bless
Dhalgren, despite your political objections to mandating ultrasound being preformed prior to providing an abortion, it is actually medical practice and important in verfying the presence of an intrauterine pregnancy (ruling out ectopic pregnancy) diagnosing the gestational age, the placental location, as well as any findings of abnormalities of the uterus, which may impact how the procedure will need to be preformed.
Imaging Studies
Ultrasonography is invaluable but not always used in first-trimester terminations. The standard of care demands that second-trimester terminations be evaluated preoperatively with sonography. Documenting uterine abnormalities is important because failed terminations can occur in patients with double uterus or ectopic pregnancies.
•First-trimester sonography: The results of the examination are what is typically expected for a first-trimester screening examination. The focus is on fetal number, the size and nature of the gestational sac, the placental location, the uterus, and the ovaries. Document the presence and nature of a yolk sac.
•Second- and third-trimester sonography: For second- or third-trimester abortions, performing an ultrasound preoperatively is the standard of care. Conduct these examinations like other second-trimester screening examinations. If anomalies are detected, women should be offered a referral for targeted examinations that can delineate specific fetal disease conditions. Not unusually, women decline further investigation if their abortion decision does not hinge on the specific findings.
E-Medicine: Elective Abortion: Differential Diagnoses & Workup
Author: Suzanne R Trupin, MD, Clinical Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Illinois College of Medicine-Champaign; CEO and Owner, Women’s Health Practice; CEO and Owner, Hada Cosmetic Medicine and Midwest Surgical Center
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/252560-diagnosis
Also, endovaginal ultrasound with a transducer is prefered over the traditional abdominal transducer because it providers better imaging of the uterus, gestational sac, and ovaries.
Clinical
?Endovaginal scanning uses a high-frequency transducer and enables optimal imaging of organs close to the probe, including the endometrium, myometrium, cul-de-sac, and ovaries, which can be seen in detail with better resolution.
Ultrasonography, Pelvic
Author: Shoreh Kooshesh, MD, Resident Physician, Division of Emergency Medicine, Stanford University School of Medicine
Coauthor(s): Laleh Gharahbaghian, MD, Co-Director, Emergency Ultrasound Fellowship, Associate Director, Emergency Ultrasound, Clinical Instructor, Emergency Medicine, Stanford University Medical Center
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/797240-overview
“But you sure can be pro-choice and say “I love babies.”
Posted by: Hal at April 27, 2010 11:03 AM”
All babies Hal or “some” babies?
That’s not love, that’s lust.
Thank you, Carla. I may have filled out a declaration once but I’m not sure. It might be one of those things I want(ed) to do but put off. Is there a way to find out?
And thanks and blessings to you too, Praxedes.
I understand why people buy into the lies (as I did). What makes me angry is when people who should, and maybe even do, know better perpetuate them. Once I started learning the truth, I became like a runaway snowball on steep hill. What changed me was being loved by someone who risked rejection to lead me to the truth.
Love to you and others here for providing a place to speak and for modeling courage.
Alice you can email me
carla@jillstanek.com
I am the WI Team Leader for Operation Outcry and I can find out if you filled one out or not. :)
“What changed me was being loved by someone who risked rejection to lead me to the truth.”
AMEN!!
Carla
God bless you. You remind me of the mongoose. I’ve never seen one but when I was younger it always blessed me to read about countries that had an abundance of a certain species of animals also has mongooses Because the species are very deadly the presense of the mongoose keeps a balance. I can not tell you how it blesses me when someone starts waving the it’s o.k to kill babies your actually protecting the moma’s flag, and out you come to educate the misinformed.and give a face to the 2nd victim of abortions, the mom. God bless you Carla and may all your battles for the unborn and their moms bring you victory.
Myrtle,
Thank you so much!! I know that the mongoose can take care of snakes in no time flat!! :) I like that.
There is no refuting a personal story of abortion regret. It is truth.
Everything about abortion is lies. They have to hide the truth to sell abortion. The truth will win.
God bless you too!!
Carla- that’s not correct. Before my abortion I had a vaginal ultrasound. I craned my head to see the screen because I was curious, the tech asked if I wanted to see, I said yes, and she immediately turned it towards me.
Hi Erin!
I believe I said I had friends that were told NO and the screen was turned away from them. So, of course it is correct in their experience of abortion. Heather, I believe has a friend that asked to see the ultrasound and the transducer was moved to her ovary. That is correct for her abortion experience.
Please tell me where a personal abortion experience of a woman is incorrect.
carla-
I wouldn’t minimize anyone’s experience. But my experience wasn’t with ‘antiquated’ machinery or rude techs. And I have no regrets. I don’t expect you would minimize my experience, just as I do not minimize yours?
You said I was not correct. About the equipment?
So you are the exception, Erin.
What did you see on the ultrasound?
Why do you pop on here now and again to say that you still don’t regret your abortion?
I was referring to the equipment, sorry, I should have been more clear. It’s finals week and my brain is all ‘BLAAAAARG’.
I always read the comments, sometimes I feel the need to speak up. There’s too much hate on here nowadays for me to want to do it very often though. I’m always watching though! And congratulations to Heather on her sweet new little boy, by the way.
Erin, nice to hear from you again. I think it is important to remind readers here that some women do not regret their abortions and are grateful they had a legal choice. As you may have noticed, I’m reducing my participation level here as well. The people here are either 1) people I’m fond of and therefore dislike arguing with, or 2) people I’m not fond of and don’t see the need to engage very often.
No, we do not minimize your experience, and we’re glad you got the opportunity to see your baby. Not everyone does, hence the law.
Thank you for wording that so much better than I could, Hal. I hope you have been well!
Erin, I have been very well. Hope you have been well too. Good luck with finals!
Posted by: Bekah Ferguson at April 27, 2010 9:52 AM
——-
Bekah- very early stage pregnancies require the use of a vaginal probe US because the embryo is not large enough to provide a distinct signature with the normal probe coming in through the lower abdomen.
Internal ultrasounds are generally done when the baby is too small to see on a regular one. I had to have one for my daughter at 6-9 weeks, to make sure she wasnt ectopic. It was not uncomfortable, most definatly more comfortable than a speculum, during my yearly exam.
“We’re glad you got the opportunity to see your baby”–but we, or at least I, am not glad that you got the opportunity to then have it put to death. Sorry but you’re either coldhearted or in denial or you really just don’t get it that what you aborted was your living, developing child. A person. And I have every right to say this because I’ve been where you are.
The reason I was able to go through with my abortion is that I believed, as I was told, that it wasn’t a baby yet. It wasn’t a person, it wasn’t a human being, it wasn’t my child. Immediately afterward and for several years I felt like I’d dodged a bullet, but underlying even that feeling was the awareness that I’d done something wrong. I could easily shield myself from those feelings because I’d learned very young to function fairly well while carrying a terrible, embarrassing secret. I was pro-choice and once even reassured a co-worker that it was OK for her to get an abortion too.
Then I got married and wanted and tried to get pregnant, but couldn’t. For ten years. I got sadder and more depressed. I went from being someone who fought tooth and nail to keep myself alive despite one mysterious health problem after another, to being someone who barely cared anymore.
Then, finally, I met someone I learned to love and trust who finally turned my mind and heart around to understanding exactly what had happened and what I had done, and that’s why I now speak as I do. Coming to know and accept the truth saved my life and, I believe, thanks be to God, my soul.
So when I say you’re either coldhearted or in denial or you just don’t get it, I’m speaking from experience. For a long time I just didn’t get it, and then I was in denial. “Getting it” has been the most painful experience of my life. I’ve lost friends. I’ve cried and cried and cried. But ultimately I’d rather be going through all this honest pain than be part of the system that continues to end the lives of unborn babies and damage the lives of so many women. I’d rather be part of the movement to spread the truth and provide real help for women and their children, even if it makes me “unlikeable” by some.
A vaginal ultrasound is definitely NOT more invasive than an abortion.
A vaginal ultrasound does not go past the cervix. An abortion does. It really is as simple as that.
And yes, they are used on almost all pregnant women who go in to verify pregnancy in the early weeks because it is easier to see the baby in that way. When I was six weeks pregnant with Patrick I had a vaginal ultrasound and you could see his little heart just beating away!
Hi Erin,
Is it hate, heated disagreement or passion? I will argue abortion until the cows come home. I will tell my story until I breathe my last breath. I will fight the lies with truth and do it hopefully with grace and compassion. There are too many babies dying every day and women being wounded.
Do you really think that your child didn’t die in your abortion but mine did?
Your story is mine. I sailed from relief into denial. That lasted 7-9 years. Then there was the husband, the house, the job, the car, the income and “The Perfect Time” to have a baby.
Life does not always work out the way we want it to or think it should. I do know that life will teach you everything you need to know, just when you need to know it. There are quite a few that will be here for you if you are EVER struggling. :)
What GREAT news! Praise God for His blessings and His help to those who seek to protect women and children from abortion. Abortion is terrible for women and ghastly for unborn children. It is good and right that legislators would seek to protect women and children from abortion.
I hope that we see more and more legislation in the days ahead that will serve to protect women and children from abortion!
ERin,
PS
My daughter Aubrey who died in my abortion would have been 19 years old this month.
Carla – Wow! You are incredibly courageous! I cannot thank you enough for your strength to share your story. I am sure that Aubrey is in heaven celebrating with the angels this month…they are celebrating YOU!!! As I’m sure you know, Aubrey is surely proud of everything her mom is accomplishing. You are an inspiration and we are lucky to have access to your wisdom. God bless you in your work.
**Hugs!**
Thank you MamaMT! My love for Aubrey is what keeps me fighting the good fight. God bless you too!!
Here is a link to my story.
http://outcrywisconsin.blogspot.com/2009/03/my-story-at-faith-community-church.html
Any source yet on that big “family planning facility” being built by the University of Utah Medical Center? I still can’t find anything about it on google or the hospital website.
Mary, I have a bad habit of sharing insider information on this site. But I do it to reinforce my reputation of using facts in my arguments. I don’t ever make-up facts in my comments. Of course, I expect most people here to strongly disagree with my opinions.
The University of Utah Medical Center in Salt Lake is currently interviewing candidates to head their new Family Planning department. It’s going to be a long process – possibly extending into the fall. Until then, the department does not have a public page on their web site. But they are in operation, albeit on a very small scale (internal clinic, a few D&E’s per month, a few tubal ligations per week, etc.).
You cannot be pro-death and say “I love babies”.
Why can’t antis wrap their heads around the fact that (a) most abortion providers are women, and that (b) most providers are also mothers?
I see the boxed-in thinking. Antis live in a black & white world. There are no shades of gray. If you terminate fetuses, it must mean that you are an evil, sinister person who hates humanity. But Antis don’t apply that logic to really sinister, evil people. Dick Cheney, for example. Corrupt cops (I’m thinking more foreign cops than American police). Terrorists. Mass murderers and dictators. But we cannot compare doctors to them (OK, I cannot….somehow Antis can).
Antis also seem to have a belief that women either terminate all their pregnancies, or keep all of them. They are unable to accept the reality that millions of American women have done both at various stages of their reproductive lives.
It is because logical, rational people know the difference between fetuses and babies. And it is for this reason that doctors can assist women in spacing births and planning the size of their family. And the same doctors can make reproductive decisions for themselves and produce precious children of their own.
There is no black / white dichotomy here. The majority of doctors who perform abortions also have children. The majority of women who have abortions, also give birth to children.
Dhalgren,
How interesting. No such facility exists though you said it does. You have “insider information”. The hospital website says nothing about “family planning” services of any kind and google only sends me back to Jill’s website.
Dhalgren, I’ve got insider info on some great ocean front property in Montana. You interested?
“Logical, rational people know the difference between fetuses and babies.” Yes, one is a developing human being living in its mother’s womb, the other is a developing human being living outside its mother’s womb.
Simple. Read a good book on fetal development. Watch a few 3-D ultrasounds.
We aren’t as stupid as you think we are. You’re not making a very good impression in that department, Dhalgren.
You have “insider information”. The hospital website says nothing about “family planning” services of any kind and google only sends me back to Jill’s website.
Not all hospitals make it clear that abortions take place within their walls. As I have posted before, thee major hospitals in Manhattan have full-service Family Planning departments within their walls, but all you see on the web site is something like this.
Uh Dhalgren,
Go back and read your link. “When it comes to family planning, reproductive choice and contraception, we do it all”.
I think this hospital website is very straight forward that the hospital provides abortion and contraception. I see nothing even close to this on the University of Utah Medical Center website.
I continue to await your source concerning the University of Utah Medical Center.
Family Planning=Abortion
Go back and read your link. “When it comes to family planning, reproductive choice and contraception, we do it all”.
That’s correct. Note the ‘a’ word is not mentioned. It is impossible to google NYU Medical Center + Abortion and reach that specific page, with the name of the department head at the bottom of it.
Mary, my source for the UT news is a doctor in NYC who was interviewed for the job. She declined. But UT Medical Center is slowly interviewing and inviting candidates to tour their OB/GYN division.
By the way, the UT web site states that they deal in ‘multiple facets within Obstetrics and Gynecology.’ I think there’s some meaning between the lines there as well.
Oh come on Dhalgren,
Don’t talk to me about “reading between the lines” when you can’t see past the end of your nose. You can see “abortion services” in the words “multiple facets within Ob/Gyn” but you are oblivious to what this NY ad is saying?
The “a” word isn’t mentioned? When is it ever? Its always “women’s health”, “reproductive services”, “family planning”, to name a few. Dhalgren are you honestly telling me you think that people are blissfully ignorant of what “reproduction choice” is? For heaven’s sake that’s the battle cry of the abortion industry!
Anyone with a brain and two eyes could easily find this info on the NY website.
Dhalgren, there are “mutiple facets” to pediatric care, family practice, psychiatic services, and yes OB/GYN, etc.
It does not in and of itself indicate abortion services.
An unamed doctor tells you she interviewed for a certain position and this in itself is proof positive this facility is being built? They may well be inviting OB/GYNs to join their facility, but this is not proof in itself of a large abortion facility being built.
Also, don’t you think the medical center would be proud to announce this impending facility? Hospitals are usually very proud to announce plans for new additions and services.
Some people juts want to stir up controversy like the troll I mean guy above.
Honestly, even though I’m pro-life, I think the Oklahoma law crosses the line. Just pass a law mandating that she be given the choice to see the ultrasound, or use an external ultrasound. Or, just find out the gestation and show her a corresponding fetoscopy image.
Mary, I never said anything about new construction at U. Utah Medical. This is an expansion of their existing OBGYN department to include Family Planning services, using existing clinic spaces and Operating Rooms. Typically the new department would ‘rent’ University space internally, and any profit would be kept by the hospital.
And you are correct, Utah might have abandoned this plan. I only know what I know as of December when this doctor was offered the job.
You seem upset that I leaked the Utah story. What’s it to you? Are you nervous that hospital-based abortions might be coming closer to where you live?
That’s another thing that Antis get all passionate about. Proximity. They don’t abortions being done in their state. But when over 50,000 procedures are performed in NYC each year, they back-off and concede my city can keep it’s reproductive freedom.
Oh Dhalgren, what’s even more fascinating than your closed-minded responses are your silences–the comments you DON’T respond to. I know, it can be exhausting to spend day after day fighting off the truth with your dull swords and more-smoke-than-light fireworks. I hope and pray that one day you’ll finally let the truth win, as I did. I think you’ll be surprised at how much more joyful and meaningful and satisfying life can be in the Light.
Dhalgren,
LOL. Upset? You claimed there was this big expansion of family planning/abortion services at University of Utah Medical Center, a new facility. OK, I checked it out. No word on any expansion on google or the website. I couldn’t even find anything about the hospital doing abortions on their website. They may, but I could find nothing about it.
After asking you time and again you finally came up with a mystery “inside source”.
Then you give me a link which only proved MY point! It doesn’t get any better than that!
In all honesty Dhalgren I’ve been caught a couple of times myself without an accurate source on this blog. I was called on it and well I should have been. Lesson learned.
So Dhalgren, consider this a lesson learned.