Jivin J’s Life Links 4-1-10
by JivinJ, host of the blog, JivinJehoshaphat
On the average each African woman will experience 7 unsafe abortions in her reproductive lifetime.”
That’s monumentally absurd.
Let’s take Nigeria as an example. The average number of children women have in Nigeria is nearly 5. That statistic should give a pause anyone thinking African women average 7 illegal abortions. That’s means the abortion ratio (abortions per 100 pregnancies) would be over 50. Yet the Guttmacher Institute’s latest ‘Facts’ on Unwanted Pregnancy and Induced Abortion in Nigeria says:
“Of the 6.8 million pregnancies that occur each year in Nigeria, 63% end in planned births, 10% in mistimed or unwanted births, 11% in induced abortion and 16% in miscarriage.”
There are approximately 31.5 million women in Nigeria between the ages of 15-44. If each of those women averaged 7 abortions in their lifetime that would be 217 million abortions. Divide that by 30 years of female fertility and you get more than 7 million abortions per year. If every woman of reproductive age in Nigeria was averaging an abortion every 4.5 years (30 years divided by 7 abortions) then the number of annual abortions performed in Nigeria would be around 7 million. Yet ridiculously high estimates from the Center for Reproductive Rights claim there are annually 760k abortions a year in Nigeria, a country where abortion is illegal.
Lesson to learn – maybe for some pro-choice bloggers like Jill of Feministe – if a representative of a pro-choice organization makes a statistical claim about illegal abortion, don’t believe them unless they actually have some hard evidence to back themselves up. Because the chances are, they’re just making stuff up.
[HT for China update: Dean Thompson]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Remember, the abortionists are always willing to lie about anything. This has been one of the standard features of their movement the last 45 years or so.
Bernard Nathanson and NARAL back in 1969 or thereabouts claimed 1,000,000 illegal killings of unborn children a year in America. Most people believe it was more like 100-200,000 a year at most.
They also claimed 10,000 deaths of mothers every year. Actually, it was 250 in 1960, falling to 39 in 1972, the year before Roe vs Wade.
The abortionists have NO credibility. Let me repeat: the abortionists have absolutely NO credibility. They have shown that they care only about promoting the killing of their own and other people’s children and lying about it.
Whenever they make claims about illegal killing of unborn children or deaths of mothers from said killing, their numbers are always wildly exaggerated and unreliable.
I second Joe. Way to call them out, JivinJ!
Well, suspend your high-fives and pats on the fanny for just a moment.
While the quote by Emily Nzeribe doesn’t seem to correspond to any study I know, we do have empirical studies that estimate the real numbers as best we can.
For example, between 1995 and 2003, abortion was the second-leading cause of death among women in Ethiopia. Also, it was the cause of death among 13% of pregnant deaths in Nigeria. This was reported in the Lancet in a long-term study conducted by the WHO. It was a significant study which “concluded that abortion rates are similar in countries where it is legal and those where it is not, suggesting that outlawing the procedure does little to deter women seeking it.”
So I don’t think an inaccurate number uttered by one doctor destroys years of careful, conservative, empirical research by teams of doctors around the world.
And by the way, the 760K number from the Center for Reproductive Rights seems absolutely plausible in a country of 30 Million. I’m inclined to take that number over Dr. Nzeribe’s comment.
My side still has a giant credibility advantage. One reason is that my side has all the researchers and scientists (I don’t see any doctors from any field reading Jill’s blog). Another reason is that when long-term studies are completed, they produce pretty solid numbers.
Hey Dhalgren,
If a woman has zero abortions, she has a zero percent chance of dying from one. Sounds like the way to go to me. The legality of it becomes irrelevant.
“My side still has a giant credibility advantage. One reason is that my side has all the researchers and scientists (I don’t see any doctors from any field reading Jill’s blog).”
LOL. Apparently you aren’t paying very close attention.
Ha, pro abort credibility, LOL.
Even atheist, pro-abortion, scientists laugh at the pathetic “reports” and mishandled data used by pro-abort groups.
“One reason is that my side has all the researchers and scientists (I don’t see any doctors from any field reading Jill’s blog)”
What? Dr. Gerald Nedal. PhD of Microbiology.
Both Bobby Bambino and Jacqueline are working on their PhD’s and I think (correct me if I’m wrong, Bobby) Bobby will be finished at the end of this year.
PiP is working on her masters in Biology if I recall correctly.
Phil is an engineer. Several posters are nurses.
To my knowledge, almost every poster here has a college degree or is a young person working towards one.
Neither science nor education is on your side in this one, Dhalgren.
Dr. Gerard Nadal *
Sorry Gerard, for some reason I always read your name as “Gerald” :)
Erm, just to add to the list, I am two classes away from a BA in psychology. I know, I know, do you want fries with that, but still.
Aside from which, Dhalgren, by setting up this 760K number as even reasonably close, you are saying that someone has measured somehow, in a manner that produced results that are nearing accuracy, the number of occurrences of a criminal act, in a country that is not exactly the model of stability. And you are expecting us to believe it.
I’m sorry, unless you can cough up something along the lines of a decent methodology, I’m’a have to call BS on that one.
Go Keli Hu! I bet you can’t wait to be done. :) Are you going to grad school after you graduate?
@Lauren: Perhaps at some point, but not right away. I’m actually looking around for entry-level positions in pro-life work. Our local CPC doesn’t hire for paid positions often, but when they do, my pastors tend to hear of it, so I’ll be all over that like cute on shoes. :)
Neither science nor education is on your side in this one, Dhalgren.
Actually, it is all about science and education. Abortion is taught in medical schools. It is taught in hospitals. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if some of your physicians observed or learned how to do a D&E as an attending or fellow at some point in their training.
The practice of abortion is not some underground cult. Abortion is front and center in the eduction of OB/GYNs and is a core component of women’s healthcare.
While I was incorrect to presume there were no scientists who read this blog. I stand by the core argument of my comment above – that peer-reviewed studies count far more than comments from a single doctor in an interview or article. The New England Journal of Medicine and The Lancet in particular have extremely high bars of entry, in which a super-majority of editors must agree that a study is worthy of publication. That WHO study on global abortion rates (1995-2003), wasn’t published in the Lancet until 2007. That’s a pretty good indiction of the long review process that manuscript had to go through.
And so, since there are people here who should know better, when Jill and her interns write that there is an established link between abortion and breast cancer, I expect someone here besides me to point out that none of the peer-reviewed journals have ever confirmed such a link. But no. They don’t correct Jill on that.
Given that doctors are sometimes trained on how to manage a miscarriage or perform an induced abortion, perhaps many people here should boycott all doctors and healthcare altogether. It’s the only way to be sure that you don’t patronize someone who ever had anything to do with the practice. I’ve mentioned before that all residents at New York City public hospitals are required to either observe a D&E or be trained in how to perform one. Doesn’t that ‘taint’ them all in your eyes? At least all the ones in New York?
Dismembering children in the womb IS NOT “healthcare”! Pregnancy is neither an illness nor an injury. The “everybody’s doing it” line may have worked when you were 13, Dhalgren, but the fact is there are MANY physicians and nurses who will have NOTHING TO DO with attacking a defenseless unborn human being and who are actually committed to healing. I’ve got 3 MDs in my family, and 4 RNs who do not kill children or help others to do so.
It most definitely is healthcare. It was developed by doctors in the 19th century to address a problem that goes back to ancient Egypt 5,000 years ago. There is no getting around that, just as there is no getting around the scientific fact that abortion is the killing of a fetus (which I have zero problem with).
If you object to this aspect of modern medicine so much, perhaps you should consider moving to a country where it is banned. I hear Brazil is available.
Yes, even the doctors I worked with at a Catholic hospital had been exposed to these procedures during their time either in medical school, internship or residency. It is, quite frankly, why they chose to practice at the Catholic hospital, because they were horrified by what they saw. In some cases they were completely pro-choice UNTIL they saw what was happening.
Also, one outspoken female practitioner told me just how hard they worked to make sure that the woman was not allowed to see an u/s (this would have been about 10 years ago when it happened, she told me about it about 3 years ago) and how every resident knew if they said anything they were out of their residency. She still feels guilt over that to this day.
Unfortuantly, it appears that those who wanted CPCs taken out of of Lilith Fair charity options got their way…let us be the stronger voice of opposition next time.
Rachael,
At least we know enough not to support the Lilith Fair….
:)
Lauren,
Happy Easter, and don’t worry about the name ;-)
Dhalgren,
You will live to eat your words, and I’m going to spoon-feed them to you slowly so that you can savor them. I’m in the process of forming an association of pro-life scientists. There are already several dozen on the list.
For now, feast yourself on these links:
American Association of Pro-life Obstetrician and Gynecologists
http://www.aaplog.org/
California Nurses for Ethical Standards
http://www.ethicalnurses.org/Home.html
Nurses for Life
http://nursesforlife.org/Welcome_Page.php
Pharmacists for Life International
http://www.pfli.org/
Physicians for Life
http://www.physiciansforlife.org/
Breast Cancer Prevention Institute
http://www.bcpinstitute.org/home.htm
Pontifical Academy for Life (Note all the physicians and scientists)
http://www.academiavita.org/portal.jsp?lang=english
Now Dhalgren, stop being partisan to the point of ignorance. It’s very unbecoming.
lol @ Dhalgren again!! Dhalgren, there are plenty of pro-life doctors in the obgyn field as well as others. I assume you’ve never been a pregnant woman before. I was talking to an ER doctor when I fell on ice last winter. I was waiting for x-rays, and we began talking about abortion. He remarked, “I want no part of it. It’s murder!” Dhalgren, do you profess to be wiser than an ER doctor????
Dhalgren, don’t forget that ER doctors see a lot of women who are victims of botched legal abortions. My girlfriend’s husband works security in a nearby hospital. An African American woman was talking to registration about why she needed to be seen that evening. “Tim” couldn’t help but overhear her say “I’m not feeling good.” “I had an abortion this morning.” Then she passed out cold. The ER team came running and took her back.
Heather,
I started my blog precisely to serve as a portal into the pro-life wings of the scientific and medical communities. Dhalgren is in for a rude awakening. We’re not going away.
Also, Dhalgren: Become a regular reader on my blog. You may not agree with me personally, but you will be exposed to the avalanche of mainstream scientific data which shows your side to be seriously self-deluded at best.
Lucy,
Thanks so much for your kind words. I have Bethany and Jill to thakn for getting me off the fence and into blogging. Every Tuesday for the next 7 weeks, we are covering a chapter from Robert George and Christopher Tollefsen’s monumental book, Embryo: A Defense of Human Life. Co-author Tollefsen is helping to moderate the discussions. I realize that medical school leaves you little time for even bathing or eating! But if you check in for anything, that’s the topic.
How are your studies going? Having gone through the same rigors for the Ph.D., I’m getting flasbacks just talking about it ;-)
Any idea yet about a field of practice? Keep at the studies hard!!! I’m praying for you.
Gerry
Posted by: Gerard Nadal at April 5, 2010 6:47 PM
Yes, school does keep me very busy. It’s been quite a challenge, but I’m making it through. I’ve learned a lot in the past two years; but there’s still so much to learn!
That book sounds really interesting; it should make for some good, thoughtful discussion. I’ll definitely check in when I can find the time.
As for specialty, I’m not sure yet; I will need to decide by the end of third year (after going through the main rotations). I’m slightly leaning toward Internal Medicine, but that could easily change.
Thank you for the prayers. I’ll be needing them :)
I think there are people who are just evil. I think there are people who enjoy seeing the lives of babies snuffed out. I believe there are people who figure out what’s important to God and set out to do just the opposite. Those who are in this country my prayer for them is that their unholy zeal will affect their own life force and not the life force of others.